How Machiavellian was Little Carmine? Machiavellian Monday

In this episode on Sopranos Street, we will evaluate how Machiavellian Carmine Jr was both at face value and through the lens that he was actually a genius. This episode ends with one of the quotes from The Prince, which make it ironic that it is held in such high regards in the underworld.

[@jordanbrooks8469]

Really enjoying this series, freshest Soprano content on KZbin in many years, instead of just giving summaries and thoughts on episodes, looking forward to the next episode!

[@jh6025]

Here here!

[@tristissimvshominvm8999]

"Whateva happened there" was a very Machiavellian move too.

[@cdrunner7876]

“Whateva happened there” “I’ll tell you what happened”

[@KKajmak]

@@cdrunner7876 “this piece of shit’s cousin put 6 bullets in Billy without any provocation whatsoeva”

[@jayvictus80]

"Uncle Philly!"

[@jasonbodine6033]

…or just stupid.

[@rolondorivas6562]

@@jayvictus80”Uncle Philly My Ass!”

[@DizzyDaDon]

Always loved the boss ass line Carmine Sr. dropped on Johnny Sack at the sit down. “Either name a price or get the fuck over it!”.. the assertiveness was just brilliant

[@cosmicskates7721]

Yup and to get back into good graces with my kids bc of my helicopter 🚁 mom neurosis LOL all I have to do when I apologize is say " I know, I'll get over myself!" 🙃

[@kylefisher1458]

Again with the money!

[@SantomPh]

What's next Carmine, let him *u*k her for a million?

[@gmoney-artofgaming7859]

Same here….also his line “end of fkn story”….lol 🤴🏾✊🏾🦾

[@joevines3428]

He wasn't as smart as he thought he was. But a lot smarter than others gave him credit for.

[@drdree8396]

He only acted dumb

[@MikeB071]

I remember the first time that I ever read The Prince as a college freshman. I was expecting to be shocked and scandalized at how wicked it was going to be and was actually surprised at how relatively benign it really is. It certainly doesn't glorify evil; it's a very pragmatic guide for an aspiring ruler, bolstered with numerous historical analogies. I think the people who are most scandalized by it have never actually read it.

[@Buford_T_Justice1]

The fundamental question is, will Sopranos Street be as effective as a boss like Borko was? And he will be, even more so? But until he is, it's going to be hard to verify that he thinks he’ll be more effective.

[@blimy01maynard30]

I'm glad you caught that. Very observant. The scared and the propane.

[@Carmine_Lupertazzi]

In the end, Sopranos Street clapped Borko in subscribers.

[@whitecloak11]

Little carmine was a good dude, him and christopher were funny as hell .

[@juanaceves6363]

He was the only one who took Christopher’s sobriety seriously

[@lewisejackson]

Little Carmine was the smartest character on the show. As soon as he saw what it means to be a part of the mob, he walked away.

[@erikjohnson5549]

Way I see it, He was smart as A human being, as A gangster he was kinda dumb.

[@Yassin.ibn.farouk]

exactly

[@gustavusadolphus6097]

Very observant.

[@robertlee4172]

Having grown up among the crime families of NYC, Little Carmine may have developed a sense of when to pull back, from the escalating tensions. For self preservation purposes. You don't go to battle, in the late stages in life. You delegate to your younger soldiers, the powers, to do so. While all the shit was going down between, LC and JS, Tony says to Chris, "We step back, and we collect what crumbs fall out." It turns out, Butchie had the same strategy in mind. "We decapitate, then deal with whatever is left". That was Paulie and Patsy.

[@SantomPh]

He was still involved, as he was at the factory sitdown with Tony. However he took a lesser role in the family and thus, safety. Let Butch or Albie take charge. He can keep fixing wet tshirt contests and making subspecies movies. Apart from his father , Rusty and Lorraine, Carmine didnt lose much in the war. Johnny lost all his assets, Phil had a heart attack and lost his crew's respect and Tony lost most of his crew trying to survive the fall out

[@nicholasspevak4952]

I think it's very possible that Little Carmine was both strategically smart but socially inept, while that would be somewhat unusual for the mob life its not out of the realm of possibility. I mean half the characters on the show say malapropisms and say stupid things, Carmine Jr just tried to act more intelligent which made it look worse.

[@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess]

I think he was socially apt, he ran clubs and stuff like that after all, I think he just played dumb among the mafia to be seen as non-threatening, specially being son of a boss

[@ADAPTATION7]

@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess Or maybe he was just incredibly lucky.

[@barbiquearea]

@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess I like to think that growing up in the mob, Little Carmine may of had older brothers, cousins or uncles proving themselves too capable or were outwardly power hungry getting whacked. Either on the orders of his father or by jealous associates, its likely he's seen his fair share of family members in the Lupertazzi family meeting a tragic end by trying to outshine everyone else. That is why he keeps up the facade of looking stupid to not make himself a target while also using his fake stupidity to manipulate others.

[@coleozaeta6344]

Seems a lot of mobsters were in ways socially inept, and that’s part of why the mob life suited them as long as they did their jobs and didn’t snitch. Most of them: anger issues, power complexes, easy towards violence, likely to intimidate, can often not form real emotional relationships with their families, wives, and children. They cheat and lie through the real life. They’re really weak men without their strength in numbers and guns. Like the Dad from “A Bronx Tale” tells his son, “They’re weak, it takes a real man to get up everyday and work for a living.”

[@SnowyNightFlyer]

Little Carmine was able to walk away from the climactic events of the series. That counts for something.

[@swevixeh]

That's saying a lot these days

[@marquesjohnson6359]

Before I even watch the video I'm gonna say I don't know if little Carmine was machiavellian but he was smarter than alot of people gave him credit for including myself initially he realized fighting to become the boss wasn't worth being murdered like Phil, Doc, Geri, Angelo or Rusty or dying in prison like Johnny he already had what really matters a family he loved and loved him so he stepped aside

[@barbiquearea]

Little Carmine's Machiavellianess reminds me of a deleted scene in Game of Thrones where Grand Maester Pycelle meets with Hand of the King, Tywin Lannister to get himself reinstated on the Small Council after Tywin's son Tyrion had him kicked off. Pycelle in an effort to appeal to Tywin acts feeble by moving slowly and shaking, an act that Tywin does not buy and calls the elderly maester out on. Pycelle then drops the act and tells Tywin that the reason he puts on this facade was because he understands how dangerous it is for people in like him to standout too much and appear far more capable than what their rivals and superiors are comfortable with. Because of this he takes advantage of his advanced age by appearing very weak and feeble in order to keep a low profile in his high profile position. As Pycelle himself says it: "So many flowers. Each one wants to grow the tallest, bloom the brightest. And one by one they all get plucked. I don't want to be the tallest or the brightest. I only want to remain in the garden"

[@toolbag-sy9ij]

Little Carmine played everyone and let his enemies destroy each other. He kept the feud between Phil and Tony alive by bringing up Blandeto at the sit down. He took the big seat with no one opposing him and then killed Tony to cement his reign.

[@fhearchair8979]

Killing Tony cements his position, sure, but it also ties up that loose end everyone (except Little Carmine) forgets about: the hit on Rusty. He said he'd avenge it in due time, and he did.m

[@barbiquearea]

@@fhearchair8979 Whacking Tony not only allows him to fulfill his promise but also with Jersey now weakened to the point of irrelevancy. Tony was the only one holding what was left of the DiMeo family together. With him out of the picture, the remaining soldiers and capos will have nobody to fill the void of leadership he leaves behind, and would also no longer be in a position to retaliate. This allows New York to absorb what was left of them as Phil wanted.

[@AnAbsurdExistence]

babe wake up, new Sopranos Street video.

[@eddie756]

hej An Absurd Existence, did she even really exist?

[@PadChennington]

This series is so great, such a nice treat to start the work week with. Keep up the great content dude!

[@bullywhispers9544]

Glad you like it! Thanks for watching

[@Flacksful]

It's my boi, Pad Chennington

[@dandavis8300]

5:33 This a reference to a Godfather II scene, Frankie Pentangles talking to Michael Corleone. "That's not how I want to handle it" seems to be a very Machiavellian position. It's pretty clear he has considered the argument but has a long term strategy he's not sharing with anyone.

[@detectiveMM]

Pretty sure it’s explained much later in the series that that’s when he had the dream about his father and he decided he just wanted to be happy and not be boss

[@boldbearings]

"his wickedness will never allow him to be celebrated by the most excellent men.." The Prince would've gotten a kick out of social media.

[@YUYUxHAKUSHO]

The sacred and the propane is when I know he wasn't playing around Lol

[@Slayer_of_Demons]

At first I thought Little Carmine was an odd choice for this series, but then I realized he IS a prince. Great video!

[@frankmurphy7234]

Haven't watched the video yet just here to say that he was the most Machiavellian character of all and he's probably the boss New York

[@laurenpeterson9510]

Ralph Macciovelli lol

[@irishg357]

In his book, "The" something... LMAO!!

[@dankestranch8738]

How Machiavellian was Massive Genius?

[@seanbhoycfc4834]

I don't know about Machiavellian or a secret genius but there was always more to little Carmine. Especially the S6 B Little Carmine. Phil not ready to step up and be Boss, not willing to fully endorse his protege Gerry either, Doc taking advantage of this until Phil has a change of heart anyway. Tony- "You know you've got the Support" Little Carmine- "You never thought you'd say those words did you"? That line and the following lines tell me that he always had the potential to takeover from his father. I think the War with John, what he learned from Angelo and Rusty plus just being in New York and for the first time being at the forefront of the family and not a rarely seen high earning part of it in Miami. Whether he wanted to be boss any longer or not after Phil makes the family Carmine Snr lead for so long even more dysfunctional Little Carmine would be the ideal successor in my view and if he took the reigns I see him being the sort of Boss Castellano was. By no means A stone Gangster but the business mind a Boss should have: For sure. He could easily deal with the financial business side of things and he has a longstanding following loyal to his father. That loyalty in the Capos and other soldiers takes care of the more bloody side of the business. I will never be sure about "genius" But while trying to bring peace between His family under Phil's regime and Jersey, all of his points are valid. However, when he mentions losing Rusty and this seems to get Tony and Phil to agree to move forward he suddenly mentions Billy in such a disrespectful and random way. Tony and Sil likely put this down to stupidity but I don't. Both are or were allies of John. I think he suspected their involvement in that hit and for the first time he sees how they react to Rusty's death. Disrupting the peace that was about to be made could have been some revenge on his part. Just found this video. Fantastic like all your content. Please keep it up 👍

[@alexruss2002]

Great video. Can't wait for another one. Thank you

[@Hennyfrank123]

Got so excited when I saw this uploaded. Love the content!!

[@xgreglewisx]

this channel is so good, binging all your videos right now. best soprano’s content I’ve seen in a long time

[@peteyprimo7173]

You should have warned us at the beginning that we are at the precipice of an enormous crossroads

[@CP-3333]

I enjoy these analysis..... as to the whole Sopranos experience✨️

[@SuperMarry23]

Soprano street. You bastard! Now I have to watch the series again. But keep putting out great videos. Have a nice day.

[@brandonhuynh4528]

The sacred and the propane Machiavellians

[@dr3dg352]

Would love to see one of Uncle Junior! What would Prince Matchabelli say about how he handled Tony V. Richie?

[@fhearchair8979]

On "Aptitude for Innovation": Little Carmine's interpretation of his own dream as he relates it to Tony suggests a 1st level mind, even at face value. And note he only uses it to "show" Tony why he's not interested in the brass ring. He's playing Tony perfectly.

[@TheCynic]

Besides his obvious nonsensical language, did Little Carmine ever act in a way that was very obviously stupid, because nothing springs immediately to mind?? If not then his reputation for stupidity feels a little unfair, especially when you consider the fact that he is smart (or wise) enough to not make some of the sometimes lethal mistakes his fellow mobsters make, such as not breaking balls unnecessarily and not becoming aggressively obsessed with status and power.

[@dr3dg352]

In nerdy Dungeons and Dragons terms, he had a very good wisdom, but needed to work on his intelligence.

[@daekry]

I think "your brother, whatever happened there..." was pretty stupid of him. but that's debatable

[@wolf7el356]

@@daekry He did it intentionally because be knew it set off Phil. He knew that Phil (through Johnny Sac) & Tony were the ones who had his friend & mentor Rusty Milio killed, so as a way to get revenge for Rusty's murder to decided to keep the Tony & Phil beef going.

[@theghettotraveler347]

Love your views on these shows. Realky great work. Just wanna say 1 things. These rules and laws written by whom ever is only as strong as long as those whom it being used upon doesnt realize they're being manipulated by them

[@cynicaltheastrocreep4504]

Seems like your channel is growing. It's great.

[@hiddengems7518]

He would have be able to maintain the act since childhood. Remember, his father is the boss and would have trained him from day one.

[@nodinitiative]

Little Carmine = Emperor Claudius

[@barbiquearea]

“You say I’m half witted. But I survived (Tiberius and Caligula), while countless others with full wits did not. Evidently quality of wits is more important than quantity.”

[@nodinitiative]

@@barbiquearea brilliant series.

[@jackd.ripper3139]

“the something” 😆😆😆fkn hilarious- Cudos‼️‼️‼️🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@ManahManah77]

This much we do know, Little Carmine would have made a hilarious malapropism out of the name.

[@garyfrombrooklyn]

You did it!! Thanks a bunch! Lol, good analysis

[@bullywhispers9544]

Hope it was worth your wait. Thanks for watching!

[@ptsigas]

wow I've been away from this channel a long time! yet I'm happily glad that I did because there's so much awesome stuff I'm quite literally binging through right now. if it's not rude I would suggest maybe doing work on boardwalk empire unless you already have 🤙👍 either way keep up the hard work

[@eatass5627]

Well done u made work less boring thank u

[@charlesjenkins2090]

The problem with the interpretation that, if Lil Carmine was a secret schemer, that he wasn't an innovator is that it assumes that his interests lay in principally leading the mob. But the theory of him being a schemer seems to cast him more as somebody positioning himself to be kingmaker within the mob while building a legal business empire from this position. Again, if Carmine Lupertazzi Sr is an aged up version of Godfather II Michael, then Carmine Jr would then be more like Godfather III Michael. If true, this is absolutely "innovative" in the sense of going beyond his father or any of his contemporaries.

[@saadishsnake]

Two Questions: 1) Would you ever consider making videos of when Sopranos characters used strategies from The Art of War (Sun Ta-Zoo, da Chinese Prince Matchavelli)? Although this may be redundant as Tony overtly applies those strategies within the series. 2) Although this channel is called Sopranos Street, any thoughts on adding other shows here and seeing how their characters act in regards to strategy (The Wire)?

[@bullywhispers9544]

I have thought of The Art of War idea and will do it, but probably not for a bit. Everything on this channel will be Sopranos related. I am starting up a second channel next week, Bully Whispers, and it will have other shows etc. Thanks for watching!

[@commiegobbledygook3138]

@@bullywhispers9544 You should do one on the brilliant strategery of Snufalufugus. We all know who really runs things down on S Street.

[@saadishsnake]

@@commiegobbledygook3138 Definite not Snuffy, he's too busy snorting

[@tlkpunte4356]

Interesting what you said about if people expect harshness but get leniency, it works better than if people expect leniency but get harshness , which causes resentment ..

[@wookieboss2643]

Carmine was clever because he got out of the game, thats a hard thing to do.

[@mikec42]

I am reminded of Louis the Whatever's finance minister: 'The' something.

[@mcz428]

Can you make a video on How Machiavellian was Mr.Satrielle’s pinky?

[@auditordeurnasjailsonurso6673]

Just by walking away from "our thing" makes him the smartest already

[@throwawaymcjoe1387]

Goddamn these videos are good. Subscribed 👍🏿

[@whitecloak11]

He could play his dad like a fiddle

[@quigley6643]

Wisdom is not intellect. - Thomas Sowell

[@SamBrickell]

I've known hamsters who were more Machiavellian than carmine jr.

[@SebastianWM]

Great channel. I’m all in on this one.

[@Sasso-pf1mo]

It's tough to verify that little carmine was machiavellian

[@Sjcstro84]

Kosmo Kramer predicted this.

[@kevinw8276]

The George W Bush of The Mafia

[@RollerCoasterLineProductions]

Actually, that’s Joe Biden and his crack head son, Hunter aka Fredo Biden LOL

[@remimk]

growing up in a mob family might make young Carmine Jr want to keep a facade of stupidity so that others don't feel intimidated

[@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess]

Exactly, he plays dumb among the mafia to be seen as a non-threat, specially being son of a boss

[@barbiquearea]

@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess If that is true then that would make him very similar to Emperor Claudius. A man who was born into the first imperial family of Rome. He was born with a stutter and speech impediment, which made a lot of people think he was a mentally challenged and not suited for power politics, even though he had a brilliant mind and was one of Rome's best emperors But for most of his life nobody saw him as a serious threat, which may have been the reason why he survived the plots and power games of his murderous, power hungry family and ended up becoming emperor.

[@ignacio5654]

great vids whatever happened there

[@gnolan4281]

In referring to little Carmine Tony Soprano sald it best; brainless the 2nd. He embodied the sacred AND the propane.

[@johnnyboyspero5470]

Carmine extra quiet and nervous at final sit down leads me to believe he knew his family was letting Tony hunt down Phil,who they were tired of,let him meaning Tony go do we're n for hit of 5 family boss. Justified. Carmine felt bad cause he as close as you cam be to mafioso and knew T was being 2 timed. Carmine becomes boss cause Butchie ain't no boss material and Carmine still has fathers friends and as we saw with washing machine gifts. He did have caps on side. Could let Butch be boss to take heat which is about to crap all over O.C. by FEDS and be Under Boss and stay out of shadows but I think war got juices flowing and he blew know or never

[@Bigslice6930]

Basically kids don't be Tony soprano be like the macheveilen mastermind carmine jr

[@blueoak5262]

When Eugene received the money his aunt left him, he wanted out of "the life" more than anything. Little Carmine didn't have a desire to make money because he already had it being the heir of a boss who had lots of it. The sole purpose of the mob is to make money, there is no real honor in being a mobster outside of the movies. He could've contributed to his family's legacy in other healthy ways such as investing some of his father's money to begin a non profit or successfully running for political office. Like AJ, Little Carmine clearly wasn't cut out for the life. He was a fish looking to bump heads with sharks and he didn't seem to be okay with doing time.

[@bustercolin7507]

Completely agree when It when it was Carmine jr job to come out and plant his flag show some force and set his mark after his father died. It's funny though that he was there at the sit down with Tony and Butchy and even Butchy looked at him as if he had some clout.

[@shaneoconnell9279]

'The sacred and the propane'

[@SL-cl9gt]

He DID trick his kids into eating broccoli by saying it was aclittle tree 🤔

[@gbonkers666]

But, the most important thing that my father taugh me was to keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. I like to think that Little Carmine was kind of like Claudius. Here was a man surrounded by some of the wickedest people in the whole entire Roman Republic..his father, his uncle, his mother, his sister and wife, and most notably Caligula. He knew how evil they could be, but since there was nothing he could do about his birthright, so he acted dumb just to stay alive.

[@mattwallace6873]

How Machiavellian was Sal Vitro?

[@MexiCANnotMexiCANT]

How Machiavellian was Borko?

[@whitecloak11]

Please do richie aprile ,because hes fucking old school. Diamond Jim, lol

[@Guiltyconscience83]

Little carmine ordering ice tea then switching to an Arnold Palmer told me all I need to know about him. He’s indecisive and unsure of his decisions…

[@artvandelay94]

It told me that he always enjoys those but it never occurs to him to order one

[@gamerman7276]

I'd be surprised if he can pronounce Machiavellian.

[@brendanmuller7301]

I agree the since diapers thing not making sense. But he could've been doing it since he was a teenager maybe it wasn't even intentional, it may have just been something to help him cope if that makes sense.

[@tad1980]

Very allegorical. No, really I mean it! It's very allegorical!

[@kasiahroy2082]

WTH did Carmine say?! 😂

[@thepalatrpro]

Nothing that came out of Little Carmine’s mouth ever made any damn sense. Anyone else agree?

[@CGFIELDS]

Little Carmine was dumb, but still smarter than Chrissy 😒🤦🏾‍♂️

[@sithsoldier98]

Your brother Billy whatever happened there..........???

[@johnlewisbrooks]

Carmine Jr may not have been the smartest guy but he backed away from mob life right at the time the Jersey New York war was over, had no real enemies and walked away with a fortune!

[@pogo8050]

Machiavellian, very allegorical

[@kloveda5]

only reason I make it through the week is for this series😅

[@Speleomimus]

I just wanted to see Frankie Valli tell LC to "walk like a man" just once. Just once

[@cwf081166]

I've always questioned was Little Carmine was a Made Man.

[@peteyprimo7173]

Yea but didn’t have to get his button because of who his father was just like Bobby.

[@bigchief70]

When you get through all the Sopranos characters, you should keep going with other series like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Vikings, Hell on Wheels...etc.

[@misterM718]

I actually liked little carmine

[@amarevanhook7453]

Ralph macchiovelli😂

[@HarryJoiner]

6:17 - Opus Dei is a completely benign prelature of the Catholic Church. Right around the time of this episode, the organization was very negatively portrayed in the Dan Brown book, “the da Vinci code” - which the Vatican harshly condemned as sacrilegious. (The book said Jesus married Mary Magdalene and they had kids.) Opus Dei was largely unknown before the book, and gravely misunderstood after the book. Had NY/NJ truly been practicing Catholics, they would have been happy to see an Opus Dei rosary in Carmine’s hands - because they would have known the book was BS and Opus Dei is Godly. This incident only goes to show how illiterate la Cosa Nostra was in matters of the faith. Basically, they were Catholic posers.

[@pfitz9346]

I think he has a speech impediment but is wiser than anyone else realizes because of it. I don't think he's a genius I just think people take it "easy on him" and let their guard down around him when he's just as crafty as the rest of them and he capitalizes on that well. Tony, Paulie, and them aren't exactly geniuses themselves.

[@Buugzy]

Nah I feel Little Carmine was really intelligent, he played Tony for a fool

[@jeambeam3173]

He could if started acting like an idiot after his father died so no one saw him as a threat they possibly could see thru it or just see him now as a bumbling idiot and just leave him alone and concentrate on there actual enemies and problems

[@naswiipp]

He was always a bit of a posur'E if you ask me.

[@ghostlyjudge]

I just think he was dumb but really charming since he could bullshit his way through Hollywood

[@mortykatz2236]

Carmine jr was a punk

[@rustyshackleford3160]

Tony's killer, followed AJ into the diner from work. Who offered AJ that job? Did AJ deserve this job? Your thoughts are useless and based on personal opinion. Keep it to yourself

[@SouthOfSanity79]

Listening to him speak I swear to Christ I got dumber.

[@quigley6643]

Wisdom is not intellect. - Thomas Sowell