How Marvel Rivals Improves The Turret Hero Design

[@-NoNo.]

loki is what i wanted echo to be. when she was revealed in ashe’s cinematic, she was so support coated that it was honestly a massive disappointment when she was revealed to be a dps. it’s not far fetched either because echo is able to create holograms in certain emotes/ highlight intros. even down to the cloning ultimate ultimate. the ability to instantly have someone’s ult makes for so many play making opportunities instead of “copy dps ult,sometimes tank, and hope that it does something.”

[@hogndog2339]

She was initially conceived as a support, too

[@zuckergolf4442]

Wdym Echos ult doesn’t have playmaking opportunities??

[@h2woah127]

It’s almost always more beneficial to clone tanks and supports than dps lol

[@user-if9pp4vg7g]

I always copy jeff for a quick team wipe 😂 hes almost always on one of the teams.

[@hillwoop9101]

Bro have you seen clips of Echo flying behind and copying Ana so she can hit the best anti nade on the backline.

[@Jimey28]

Just wanted to clarify a few things on Namor: Luna snow doesn't remove the hard cap of 2 turrets, so you just have an extra, stronger turret Namor actually gets the sped up turret attacks from landing *any* headshot, so even if right click is on CD you can still get the boosted damage I think he's very well designed to reward skilled play as a turret character

[@DaltCity]

Yes, the only thing is alt fire adds is an empowered shot for burst damage which gives him a “kill combo” against squishies. Namor is a goated turret/sniper character

[@AdhvaithSane]

_Hi 🪝_

[@tonio5084]

You can only have up to 2 turrets NO MATTER what

[@SuperMystermistery]

My favorite thing about Loki is that if you stand still you are indistinguishable from your turrets . Combine this with your invis and swap abilities makes it so you can make your opponent play a guessing game about who you are at any time. I think he is the best strategist and surviving dives because you can just confuse the enemy until death.

[@friendboy10]

Loki shoots first and his reload animation isn't shown for clones, just as tips in case an enemy Loki is trying this strat. Those are the only differences I know of.

[@kakugowaii5854]

This doesn't really work in practice, there's never a reason to not shoot Loki clones since they are a source of both healing and damage. All this strategy does at best is make you waste your own time when you could be actively helping your team and at worst, get you killed

[@kimbohenry508]

Just a couple of notes on Loki: - The clones last for 60 seconds, so he's absolutely right, it doesn't truly matter in the long run lol, but it should also be noted that they don't go away when you die. - When invisible, you can still place clones and swap with them, which is at least useful for escapes, but any attack will make you visible and merely bumping into an enemy will make you visible also. But the invisibility is infinite, thankfully. - His Ultimate has a default of 15 seconds, however, if you wait until the last second to use the copied Ultimate, you'll gain additional time, depending on the Ultimate. +15 secs for Transformation Ults, +6-7seconds for One Shot Ults Otherwise, he basically told you everything else lol

[@RetroCube]

Copying Hulk also gives you +15 for transformation, and +6 while grabbing someone during the ult (since Hulk/Loki doesn’t turn back while in the hulk grab animation). So you can get like 36 seconds of Hulk mode. Not super practical when there’s a lot of better ults to pick but man it’s so fun to do.

[@Ransacksix]

If you copy Winter Soldier Ult. You can use the reset he gets on a kill to reset your own ultimate.

[@bloodangel7731]

The thing with torbs turret is it used to have 3 tiers and you would upgrade to each tier using scrap which was an interesting mechanic for torb and it made him a niche defence hero but now the focus is more on torbs gun than his turret and the only interaction you get with it is that you can use the hammer to repair the turret

[@h2woah127]

The tier thing felt to clunky for the fast paced overwatch anyways. He feels better know than he used to, but I’d rather have slightly weaker turrets but be able to throw out two of them and then function just like Namors turrets

[@engineergaming3830]

@@h2woah127 he feels more like a generalist with a slight dps boost sometimes if noone shoots it down now he lost literally everything that made him an interesting character (besides the 2 firing modes ig) also 2 turrets would be a nightmare to balance cuz it would make it either impossible for solo dive to do shit or be so weak they'd be comperable to sym turrets

[@somebodyrandom27]

Torb's original mechanics seem to have taken a lot more influence from TF2's Engineer, the original Turret Hero. Engie also has a turret with three tiers that he can upgrade by spending metal, but he also spends metal to build and repair them. He also has other structures he can build and more ways to gain metal.

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Honestly this is why I liked the community mode turrets, popping your buff also popped theirs. It’s small, but it both let the turrets be more impactful without breaking them and added the question of if you should pop your cooldown whenever it was in danger, to save it to potentially yourself, or just go full on aggressive with it

[@drakula839]

Scrap wasn't used for upgrading a turret, lmao

[@h2woah127]

I also really like how namors turrets can be placed anywhere such as walls and ceilings where torb just has this 1 big ole turret that can only be placed on floors

[@BoxHeadMidus]

Didn't know that. Thanks.

[@egordon7543]

Bc it’s balanced that way, having a torn turret on the roof would ruin characters like tracer etc

[@ni9274]

Remember symmetra

[@Chinesetakeout382]

This is a case I’d argue that none of these guys are as interesting as the TF2 engineer. Which is weird because I’d argue rivals and overwatch both do versions of that games archetypes better on paper. Nobody has ever managed to do a more interesting turret character in a hero shooter. But it’s kind of an unfair comparison because engie deals way more in team logistics while also doing great damage by himself if you land his shots. I

[@firetube8288]

Yea I can tell you why, engineer doesnt play the same game as the other mercs Meanwhile overwatch and marvel rivals try to make turret characters that play the same game as the rest of the team

[@nazarenomilohanich4883]

@@firetube8288 I like how this argument just boils down to "yeah hes a really unique character and thats bad, actually" lol

[@firetube8288]

@@nazarenomilohanich4883 I am not saying he is a BAD character, I am sayin that he simply is not a turret character. He´s a character that happens to have a turret.

[@polar6066]

terrible comparison, engie is a whole class, sym and torb are characters you can switch to.

[@engineergaming3830]

@@polar6066 you can switch to and from engie lol

[@charlesmiller5484]

Tbh the only issue I have - being a loki main- is how finicky laying his doppelgangers can be.

[@nifdoowo]

Yes, the placement mechanic seems to be pretty awful across the board, like if you cant place something it keeps you in the interaction until you cancel it or place it in a correct spot, I've had this problem with a few abilities including namor's ult where i assume it's placed so i move to shoot after, only to place the ult on the other side of the map :(

[@appleseed445]

They need an instant cast option for them badly

[@AdhvaithSane]

*Have you checked the Hero Specific Settings for Loki?*

[@ryanager8029]

Namor’s turrets actually have a second and a third layer of interactivity added to them. His right click makes all his active turrets shoot an empowered shot at the target he hit. Landing his right click or a left click headshot also makes the turrets enter a rapid fire berserk mode. Landing his left click also reduces the cooldown on his turrets.

[@lheesycovi1763]

Loki seems inspired by Ying from Paladins

[@slink5812]

Exactly, is what ying potentialy could have been if they improve her concept of being an ilusionist

[@Honerkamp]

It's basically the same but with more control over the turrets and a different type of shot

[@Mirabelle479]

god i loved ying so much! loki has to fill that void now 🙂‍↕️

[@Saki10001]

highly suggest looking at Paladins' "Ying", her clones are similar to loki and really unique

[@floaredor4178]

my fav hero shooter character tbh

[@magythemage]

Tbh, i actually dont like non-permanent turrets. I think it goes against the design of a turret hero. It doesnt make a lot of sense especially when compared to other defensive characters like penny or loki who both can keep infinite duration mines or clones. Overall i think permanent turrets can work, non-permanent turrets are a bit of a copout hence why as someone who loves turret characters im not a big fan of neimor. The key here is interactivity with the target. One good example of a good turret character is Io From paladins. You can heal your turret, you can reposition it arround, you can use it to bodyblock, you can use it to heal yourself, you can use it to stun oponents, you can use it to save yourself etc.

[@slink5812]

Yeah luna is pretty cool

[@-Core-]

It can even be used to push the payload 😂

[@CadaverJunky8]

Yeah agreed. I think Namor is weak precisely because his turrets go away so quickly.

[@_Tygon_]

Yeah his turrets should be permanent, especially since they can't even be upgraded

[@zephaniahofgod1673]

it cant anymore ​@@-Core-

[@spacewarp5850]

I love when the discussion of hero shooters comes up and only talk about overwatch and marvel rivals. Like Loki’s whole gimmick was done 6 years ago with ying in paladins. But this is revolutionary guys.

[@paulbregeault-merel6550]

Yes Paladins has great heroes designs too but it is always forgotten. Also do some people remember there was a Gundam Hero Shooter as well ?

[@joon2533]

I will point out that while symm's turrets are kinda weak, they do have a lot of cool niche uses that weren't really mentioned. Things like turret bombing by stacking 3 turrets and using her TP to flank and get a quick elim with the insane burst that comes from 3 turrets and her gun. You can also block bullets with the turrets if you send them out at the right time or angle which is super useful against block widow/hanzo headshot, ana sleep dart, or high noon.

[@SpeedShadow54]

Torb was a more active character in the early days of OW1 and I miss that. Supporting the team with armor packs and managing turret levels was so much more fun than the set it and forget it style he is now.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

No way. Old play of the games would often involve Torbjorn staring at a wall as his level 3 turret did all of the work.

[@tvoltage]

@@kamikeserpentail3778 you just don't get it man

[@awhitney3063]

I'm surprised you didn't count Moon Knight as a turret character - with his anks and the way they function he's sort of like a turret hero similar to Loki in that they only shoot something when you, the player, are activating them and shooting something as well. TBH I really like his design because it's both easy to avoid the giant glowing Ahnk radius area as an enemy, but also very cool to feel like you've outsmarted them and got a lot of value out of it.

[@shrekkek9396]

Not even close. Wery weird comparison.

[@h2woah127]

Ehhhhhh

[@Daddix0]

i understand what you’re going for but nahhh, not very similar

[@dingus2k]

yeah i consider moon knight in the turret subclass as well

[@h2woah127]

@ he doesn’t have a turret though

[@CadaverJunky8]

I literally have no idea why Sym (and to a lesser extent Torb) even have turrets anymore, they literally do nothing. They've nerfed those turrets so much that they might as well not even exist.

[@Scriffer]

Master sym main here. The turrets are integral to get kit. The slow they provide makes her so much more lethal. And the added burst to a tp bomb, charged shot, tp, charged shot, beam combo is super lethal if you can get it on a support while they are busy. Anyways I'm guessing you don't really play sym.

[@mickeyboy90]

M1 peak torb player. The turret is super strong long term value and anti (non perfect) dives. Turret is loads of pressure on any dive character/tank and gives them a timer for how long they can be in or an obstacle stopping them from being able to go in. Torb its 80/20 overload vs turret. Turret requires some thought but overload is where most of his skill expression lies.

[@Scriffer]

@mickeyboy90 you summed that up perfectly. His turret can absolutely serve as a deterrent to dive heros and especially heros like sombra who can have their hacks interrupted by a well placed turret. It really sucks to try and commit to a dive as tracer when there is a turret covering the backline. And diving torb is... not the most advisable thing. Unless his overload is on cooldown.

[@polar6066]

​@@Scriffertorb is the god damn devil that shotgun deletes EVERYTHING

[@mickeyboy90]

@@Scriffer my favourite 2 things about torb is i think realistically i could always have won a 1v1 (gun is enough to 2 tap any non-tank and overload is enough survivability to always be able to shoot 2 shots 400hp+speedboost). But his turret is nice because between every fight i get to think about both team comps and where would the perfect spot in a fight be which is a fun little puzzle every fight. And i can hammer it if its being shot to outplay anyone without the dps to break it (happens once ever few games bit its hilarious).

[@nikkitrabucho2534]

People sleeping on Peni is great for getting MVP 🥳

[@UItraVice]

They basically took Yings character from Paladins and made her Loki. Which is hilarious considering everyone only compares overwatch 😂

[@h2woah127]

I love playing Ying 😌

[@h2woah127]

Paladins > OW2

[@awopcxet]

Was gonna comment this, in general Paladins is very overlooked if you want to compare heroshooter hero design. Like how Hela's ult to me seems like an iteration of an Androxus ult

[@iamjoshl]

@@awopcxetDEATH AWAITS YOU ALL *cue 3 explosive shots *

[@UItraVice]

@@awopcxet Personally Paladins was always better. It may not have had the funding Overwatch did but if they released Paladins 2 with better graphics, updated mechanics and more game modes, I think it would do amazing. It only failed because it came out around the same time as overwatch and couldn't contend. That and the fact that HiRez tends to abandon games and just focus on micro transactions...

[@scopeapurpleblunder]

yeah, i think the main pain point with torb is that he’s a very set and forget hero. both his turret and his ult are just very passive ways of dealing damage. after you said the thing about the turret igniting enemies i had an idea to shift the power in torb’s kit so that he’s a much more active hero. give him a new passive (call it forged fury idk) so makes it so torbjorn deals more damage to ignited enemies. take some damage away from turret but make it cling to walls as well. the clinging property isn’t essential but it allows the builder hero to be more creative. give overload some new properties. firstly, have it ignite enemies around torb which would make it more interesting as a defensive tool and trigger his passive. secondly, it should empower his turrent to ignite enemies it’s shooting for the duration of overload. this would take power away from his turret normally unless used specifically to help torb for that extra ignite damage and give him those bursts of lethality. it would probably be fair to dial back other aspects of overload like the overhealth but i think that’s fine because that aspect isn’t particularly fun.vlastly, give torb more lava to shoot out in molten core but decrease its damage and cause it to ignite enemies and cause damage over time even after they leave the lava. this would gear it away from being a set and forget ult and more of a pressure tool that empowers torbjorn through his passive. that would overall make him much more active and flavorful with the fire. it would also give him some synergy with other heroes who have fire abilities

[@xxNightxTrainxx]

16:25 Oh god, we're at the point where people don't remember Torb's level 3 turret 💀

[@booshandorkakow64]

I'm having a blast on Namor and never would have expected him to be one of my favorites.

[@Birch123-z9p]

For Torbjorn his turret should target whoever he targets, use its lvl 3 rockets when he overloads, and have a self destruction ability. When he de-activates his turret it should charge up for 2 seconds and then blow up like a mini d.va bomb. If it is destroyed before it can self destruct then it has a longer cooldown.

[@nazarenomilohanich4883]

I hate how these builders are all a different flavor of disposable turret dispenser (that often times arent even permanent) and nothing else... no unique resource management, no room for skill expression from knowing how to keep your buildings alive, no upgrade mechanics, no actual commitment from a gamedesign point of view to, you know, *actually making the turrets truly impactful and powerfull...* But its okay because "you have to aim with Namor therefore hes what all turret heroes should be". Dont get me wrong, im not even saying characters like Namor or Loki are poorly designed, not at all, in fact I think for the most part they were done very well, most certainly better than current Torb. The problem I have is that they should only represent *ONE* of the ways the turret character arquetype can be done in these kind of hero shooters. There is nothing wrong with builders whose turrets arent individually particularly impactful and dont require any kind of unique resource management and care besides just knowing proper placement. However, can we please get at least one, just ONE builder with a turret that is actually impactful and powerful? That actually requires resource management? That actually forces the player to take care and play arround their building? It sounds like it should be obvious considering we are talking about the *TURRET* arquetype yet here we are. I guess what Im saying is; *I want more characters like TF2 regular engineer, NOT the gunslinger engineer, we definitely have enough of those...*

[@Spellbook]

Characters like tf2 engineers are often very unfun for games like overwatch or rivals since those games are very fast paced, these games avoids characters that are very uninteractable directly. Tf2 often times, although very chaotic, matches lasts slightly longer.

[@shafikkrisoondatt4002]

@@Spellbook gotta disagree characters like Sombra and Widowmaker exist, and they are generally unfun, just because something isn't fun doesn't mean it doesn't have an place line Ana's anti heal

[@shafikkrisoondatt4002]

@@nazarenomilohanich4883 dude I agree with this on an personal level 😭 I fell in love with engineer because of the resource management and having buildings that are impactful, Gunslinger engineer is so bland to me the only saving grace is that he's still an support class, while Everytime I play Torb or namor I'm bored out of my mind

[@Trevan2412]

Namor turrets also get a buff if you headshot with primary fire, and Loki clones do go away on their own after a long enough time

[@thefourthcrow5627]

its such brillant design on Namor, you can tell that it was both a top down and Bottom up approach. The Design is clearly meant to make you feel like you command your Turrets like a king, but its also balanced turret gameplay. The Skillshot feels so satisfying because it makes you feel like you earned the turret kills.

[@quinnalves715]

6:40, actually they do, it just takes a while

[@shawngorski9714]

You could do an entire series on hero designs that marvel rivals improved from overwatch at this point 😂

[@Chinesetakeout382]

That only works if we exclude the tanks, because rivals doesn’t exactly do that great at the moment.

[@shawngorski9714]

@Chinesetakeout382 marvel rivals does tanks 100x better, they all have skillful mitigation, there ain't a single orisa or mauga, and they actually feel like tanks, not just giant dps. Anyone can make fun tanks of they just make them big dps lol but every tank in marvel rivals has skillful mitigation, like strange is the one people are saying is most like orisa and he actively harms his own healing from his supports by dealing dmg, he can't shoot while shielding which while basic, is still a way to make mitigation skillful since you're giving the player a choice they gotta make, and he can fly and has a badass portal that allows for some of the sickest flank plays... sorry but the only tank that ow has that's better is d.va, and they ruined dmva when they went to 5v5 and made her role entirely irrelevant and had to make her brain dead easy at securing kills to compensate.. now d.va has been reduced to a bus, you just run people over all game... it's not very engaging or fun.

[@shawngorski9714]

@Chinesetakeout382 but have you yoinked a iron man out of the air as hull and slammed into another building through its window? Or held a point for a good 10 to 15 seconds 1v6 as cap by just being a wirey mad man leaping around and juking, or played penny and ulted and lead your army of robot spiders perfectly into their team to blow them all up, these tanks are peek design and feel so fun while tank in ow is legit just being a dps that gets bullied by the other roles and if you get caught without your master support there to keep you alive you lose 1v1s to reapers and bastions 😂 marvel rivals doesn't need tank busters to keep its tanks in check, their tank design is honestly a million times better, people that are complaining are simply just used to ow tanks now.

[@nechocat1234]

​@@shawngorski9714 both tank busters are considered bad in marvel rivals even, being scarlet eitch and wolverine who deal dmg based on max hp

[@shawngorski9714]

@nechocat1234 they still gotta be in more risk, wolverine is a melee hero which means he needs to brawl you, and wanda will probably always suck lol Contrast that to bastion and that hero can single handedly stop a tank himself, he's largely why less tanks survive up into the higher ranks.

[@user-if9pp4vg7g]

Loki should get like .01 second of invulnerability when he goes invis because its literally useless trying to escape with it.

[@theOGTrapYoda]

Sounds like you're using it wrong TBH. I have no issues with it but most Loki players I see try and use it as an "oh shit" panic button to save themselves from getting melted by a duelist up in their face and that just doesn't work cause getting hit once cancels the invis. It's meant to be used more strategically than that for example swapping places with a clone THEN going invis has never failed me (assuming the clone I swapped with was well positioned.) Alternatively breaking LoS with the enemy before popping invis is good too cause then the enemy has to kill the clone spawned by the invis to make sure it wasnt actually the real Loki standing still which buys you more time to escape. Rather than using it purely defensively you can also use it somewhat offensively to take the initiative by sneaking past enemies to a good flank spot or to save an overextended tank without dying on the way over then swapping with a clone I placed in a safe spot around the corner from our backline. Loki is the undisputed KING of psyops so you really gotta fuck with the enemies mind and keep em guessing to use him to his full potential.

[@addictedfoolgamer1970]

@@theOGTrapYoda yeah same way I used it. If there’s an opportunity I’ve also used it to get amongst the enemy team and pop a quick ultimate to take most of them out. Risky but fun.

[@user-if9pp4vg7g]

@@theOGTrapYoda I mean yeah its suppsed to be the "oh shit get me out of here button" im not "using it wrong" im saying is useless to try to escape with it. I use it to scout the enemies for my team now but thats not its intended purpose. Its obviously made as a last second escape but its useless in that aspect.

[@user-if9pp4vg7g]

@@theOGTrapYoda Breaking LOS does nothing lmfao homies acting like some mastermind of stealth. Swapping with your clone is also super obvious unless you had it placed in a bad spot that wasn't helping your team which is why they died and now youre being focused. All good players take out the clones asap too so you come to swap places and your clone is gone by the time you slap down a new one youre toast. Its super situational and its bad.

[@user-if9pp4vg7g]

@@theOGTrapYoda Breaking LOS does nothing most of the time since most heros have splash damage. Thats assuming you can even make it around the corner before getting absolutely melted. Swapping with you clone is also obvious and people catch on quick. You must be playing in low MMR lobbies where people are running into penis mines lmao.

[@Kylesico912x]

What if Torb got his tier 3 turret back when he ults? So it gets a fire power boost and burst damage with rockets.

[@wrmholeagro2016]

I think engineer is the best designed and most fun version of a turret character within the team shooter genre. Not to say he would work well within overwatch and marvel rivals, engineer is taylored to work specifically within the bounds of tf2

[@Webhead123]

Loki feels incredibly well-designed. With a little practice, he can become both really fun and a strong contributor to a team.

[@Mecr0z]

My fav interaction is when you copy Adam warlock as Loki bc when you die as Adam warlock you can revive like Adam warlock so you effectively get 2 life’s

[@danielgonzalezlopez2147]

Namor main. I like that his turrets go away after X secondd. What I 100% hate and I think should be changed is the fact that his turrets despawn AS SOON AS Namor dies. You can only have 2 on the field and you need them to inflict enough damage, the whole point of other turret heroes is splitting the enemy's focus so they either destroy your turret or focus you (but then they will get hit by the turret). In Namor's case there is no strategy: Focus only Namor because his turrets will despawn if he dies. And meanwhile we have broken dps like Hela with no downsides...

[@Major_Arachnid_1]

Not mentioning peni parker is insane, but no punisher when his best ability is literally a turret is stupid

[@boogrs55]

Haha e go brrr

[@puggietaur]

having a turret and being a turret are 2 very different things

[@hourglas]

I mained ana and sombra in overwatch, and wattson in apex. Loki was my immediate choice. Hes sooo fun.

[@ThatBoiDinky]

FINALLY someone that sees how unhealthy a set it and forget it ability that is disconnected from your kit is! GOD I LOVE WELL BALANCED TURRETS THAT ARE ACTUALLY APART OF YOUR ABILITY KIT AND NOT JUST A FREE VALUE BUTTON

[@marveler8994]

Loki's turrets have a time limit but you're either replacing them so fast or having them get destroyed that it doesnt really matter lol

[@artimist0315]

Well, let's apply what Marvel teaches us about turret characters to overwatch : Symmetra : Symmetra's turret have never been that strong but they have always been very annoying to destroy. They do play a part in Symmetra's kit with turret bombs but overall are very gimmicky. They are also annoying to manage as if you just want to reposition the last turret you place you have to cycle all your turrets. I think the idea of namor's turrets where they are only temporary would be a great fit for small disposable turrets like Symmetra's. It would make them less annoying to destroy and would make giving them more health and power more justifiable. I would like to also make it like loki's where they only shoot where Symmetra is shooting because getting killed by a random turret is extremely annoying. Finally when the turret returns to symmetra after a few seconds, all the damage it does is converted into energy for her primary fire so it makes them a core part of her kit. Side note here but I would also like to see her old beam back, it was super unic and would give people with disabilities or just people unfamiliar with FPSs and entry point in the DPS category. The change to her beam barely increased the mechanical skill to play her but suppressed a lot of her unic feel and rythm. Torbjorn : For being the supposed "turret character" of Overwatch, Torb is laughably bad at getting use out of his turret. The awful throwing distance and the constant attention needed makes it bad at creating angles, and it most often than not ends up destroyed before even being created. The first change I would make would be to drastically increase the throwing distance of the turret and makes it impossible to destroy during the build time. This will open up much more angle opportunities and will guarantee a turret will get at least some value rather than blowing up before even being up. I would also change Forge hammer to quick melee, it's way too clunky to use right now and hammer as a melee makes way too much sense. Now let's talk about his abilities. His current overload is completely boring, it doesn't have anything to do with Torb as a hero and has no interesting use. Let's scrap that and instead go to another great hero shooter, the grandady of all, I'm of course talking about TF2. In this great game, which combine Symmetra's TP, Torb's turret and Illari's healing turret into one class : the engineer. In this game, you can pick between different weapons and one of the best weapon for engineer is called the wrangler. The Wrangler replaces your gun with the remote control of the turret, giving it damage reduction and allowing you to control it and shoot rockets. It's both very fun to play and give a lot of interactability to your turret. I would like to give Torbjorn a similar ability. When activated, this abilility will replace Torbjorn primary fire with the turret dealing double damage, and with secondary fire Torbjorn will shoot rockets torb will be able to use to rocket jump. It will also give him and the turret an HP boost with the scraped level 3 turret design. All of these changes will promote a more proactive use of the turret and will make it a more fundamental part of Torbjorn's kit, needing to be properly managed to get the maximum value rather than being a "place it and forget it". For his ultimate, I they should really make it last longer and give it flames to extend its vertical hitboxe as it's really ass now. Also make it burn the targets touched by it, so it can't be crossed easily. Illari : it's crazy that after 8 years, the devs manage to add yet another turret hero while repeating the exact same mistake of making it boring and uninteractive. For her I would like to make it work like Sigma's shield. By clicking the ability again, Illari would be able to recall pylon, which would slowly refill its health. Then she would be able to replace it wherever she wants. She would have to choose wether she wants to keep healing her team at the expense of the pylon risking breaking and on cool down, or recalling it to heal it but have her healing output cut. To complement this change, I will make it so pylon recharges Illari's primary and secondary fire quicker when out. It will make her really want to place it down to get value, increasing the drama of having to recall it to heal it. Baptiste : Finally for Baptiste's lamp, I honestly think the ability is honestly not too bad in a vacuum, it's just on Baptiste's kit, Aka the hero who already has both his primary fire and ability one basically providing the same AOE protection to his team, making it feel like it's impossible to ever break through his teammates. You deal damage bap use his grenades to heal it, you do more bap uses his burst to keep up, you finally get your ult and when you think you'll finally break through, bap throw a lamp out of his ass to delete all of your progress. My change for him would be to reduce his primary fire to 20 damage/round, his secondary fire to 20 healing on hit and 40 splash and to delete his burst entirely as this ability is beyond boring and forgettable. Then replace it by window on a ressource meter like defense matrix, boosting damage dealt by 25%. This would mean Bap would still have access to his current healing and damage but would now need to use his window ressources to do so. It would also mean that he will no longer have access to all the AOE healing he has now, forcing out lamp much earlier and making it actually punishing to waste it. Then for the hero, it will give him a lot of the utility currently lacking in his kit making him viable without needing his current extreme levels of damage and healing to keep up and be useful as a support, leaving the role of big AOE numbers to Moira giving her a niche back in the meta. What do you think about these changes ?

[@MistarZtv]

why is the voice volume so low in this one?

[@SuperMandibleclaw]

I wish namor's turrets acted like loki clones and didnt go away after a set time only when an enemy destroys them

[@misterfevillord1588]

With torb, it would be great if you bonk a guy with hammer and then turret shoots something cool to that guy Or, you can bonk an ally and turret shoots an armor pack to the ally

[@Kajnake]

Overwatch turrets; place down and forget about the ability, no skill expression (only positioning expression), deal no damage in teamfight (they have to compensate for infinite up-time) Marvel turrets; Interactive, juggling your job with turret maintenance, creative strategies, greatly rewarding for skilled tactical players

[@p0ison1vy]

It's true that his turrets are more fair than some, but there's really nothing innovative about them when compared to Mobas like League, where turrets / deployables are also weak until you hit a skillshot (eg. Illaoi, Heimerdinger, Zyra) & don't have 100% uptime. And frankly, from an aesthetic standpoint -- his turrets look and sound really stupid. They're giant children's bath toys, you know the ones that squirt water? And they fucking whistle ? Compare them to Illaoi's tentacles from League since her character & shtick is very similar to Namor, and it's just such a letdown how unserious "The King of Atlantis" looks. I'm not a Marvel fan, but if I were I'd kind of mad at how they did him dirty.

[@Doople]

Honestly fair. Lots of hero shooter fans forget to look at mobas when the characters can function very similar. Especially Rivals which is even closer to mobas than OW1 or OW2

[@johnnymeansii]

Sorry, any suggestion to make turrets get stronger in game breaks them in low Elos.

[@polar6066]

to be fair not so much if they apply buffs or debuffs

[@shafikkrisoondatt4002]

@@johnnymeansii I mean...their stationary pretty countable, there is an reason why we don't balance the game around lower elo's

[@drakula839]

Skill issue

[@polar6066]

idk but i hope the next ow experimental patch they try turning syms turrets into not something stupid ass healing turrets or shitty straight laser beams.

[@madmaxim3965]

Pretty sure if loki dies his copies stay on the field so if you shoot while in spawn they will also shoot which could happen to heal a teammate lol

[@tossitupman]

i would trade to right click for a different turrent i would be okay if they used the same charges

[@TylerPayne21]

I think Overwatch 2 has completely gutted some of the heroes; for example, Torbjörn especially is the biggest victim of them dumbing down the cast because people don't know how to play the game. 😡❤‍🔥

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

Engineer may have largely started it, but babysitting a turret is boring. And playing against a powerful turret like that which absolutely must be responded to, can be frustrating, especially for new players, as their opponent can perform well while letting the AI do all of the work. Usually I absolutely despise turret characters, but their design in Rivals feels fair, and interactive.

[@shafikkrisoondatt4002]

@@kamikeserpentail3778 I gotta disagree "babysitting an turret is boring" to you maybe, I personally find characters like tracer, genji, and scout boring but different play styles exist for an reason, I love the pressure of maintaining my buildings when they are under fire Your second argument I can understand it to an extent it just depends on how it's implemented, TF2 is an great example of an strong sentry you have full control on how you approach the sentry, they take a good while to set up, engineer has to build up his sentry to to level 3 again if it goes down which takes time since he needs metal to build, heal and upgrade his buildings, the sentry have an limited range, and they are binary, one person can easily take out an sentry gun by corner peaking or spamming at it, and sentry's are the strongest when protected by an team, the same very much applies to Torb except to an much lesser extent, both pre and post rework, the important thing is both characters have an downtime with their turrets, if Torbs turret is destroyed he has to wait an good while to get it back, and engineer has to build an sentry then build it back up to an more threatening state, compared to namor who I think is way more unfair then these two since he can always have an turret up, there is little to no downtime, it's pretty easy to land your supper Tritant that allows your turret to fire faster

[@TheMetalInsideUsAll]

Tips for ranked. You only need 2 heroes. Magneto for play8ng against ranged heroes and Namor to play against melee heroes..

[@TheLeetCasualGamer]

I seriously hate what they did with Torb in Overwatch It's the most passive playstyle I've ever experienced in a competitive game.

[@Doople]

I like the sym example but i dont think any of this is better necessarily. Sounds like you just like more complex abilities especially with you wanting Torb giving out staus effects. Part of the appeal of OW is the relatively simple abilities but hard to master characters. Torbs gun actually has some intresting characteristics that makes him decent at sniping if you have the aim for it while still having tank busting capability. The turret can be a large factor to this if you are willing to use it as a distraction or even makeshift cover. That kind of appeal is more suited to FPS players but i think thats a different kind of good. Not to say i don't like Marvel Rivals either. I do like these turret characters but they only fit with more complex abilities. Which appeal more to the moba side of things and thats good too.

[@Bugthaw]

Am I the only one who finds Namor’s octopus turrets really really obnoxious? I just think the whole idea of a character shooting you without even looking at you or knowing you are there is plain silly, especially when considering how much damage and range they do

[@scrubblesi1233]

What about penny Parker

[@D201-o4k]

Nah engineer from tf2 has the best turret in any hero shooter, no other game has the sheer turret firepower of a lvl 3 tf2 turret. That was true area denial

[@Zahri8Alang]

Oh ma gash, i forgot(never realized) Namor can hover

[@timothymoore8549]

Namor is the best turret character because he is the main turret.

[@Birch123-z9p]

For Torbjorn his turret should target whoever he targets, use its lvl 3 rockets when he overloads, and have a self destruction ability. When he de-activates his turret it should charge up for 2 seconds and then blow up like a mini d.va bomb. If it is destroyed before it can self destruct then it has a longer cooldown. Symetras turrets should have their own damage buildup independent from her charge. They should no longer slow enemies or give vision through walls. Instead they should charge her. This would recharge her ammo over time, speed up her secondary fire charging time, and recharge her TP faster.

[@Taylor_Lindise]

Why you not talk about Peni? The one tru turret of the game :p I guess one doesnt consider Bastion a turret either.

[@secretasianman991]

Groot is a turret character trust

[@MistarZtv]

my fave turret hero is Bucket. lol

[@mickeyboy90]

Tried to play loki i stg he requires a 5 star skill level i dont usually have to try so hard just to lose. And when i look back i realise i could have done better.

[@silvrous8801]

Hes aware you can throw another torb turret whilst the original is out without having to destroy it first right?....

[@bluebebop2337]

so weird they made loki a healer

[@janikut_]

I think overload should remotely heal torb turret

[@MrJbrown1014]

Bro if you dont understand that as a torb you didnt have to constantly move your turret you didn't know how to play torb

[@adamtwener]

Any Loki mains here??

[@Tory-JJ]

Hia turrets are braindead op and headshot dpa is broken. Hia turreta dps stealth and invicable characters because of low tickrate garbage code and servers. His turrets are torb turrets that require even less skill.

[@carpy8359]

Yeah, but Symmetra is hotter

[@Mage6ix]

You explained sym horribly , and all torbs complaints were already in the game or just didn’t make sense. Marvel rivals characters have more room for expressions yeah but it’s its new game vs a 8 year old game.

[@matheus_brunelli]

Tbh Namor's kit is significantly less interesting than Torbjorn's

[@ovyle]

He's just plain boring. If he had different types of sea creatures applying different effects, it would be better

[@tesla6938]

i disagree, while i think it’s more interesting, it’s also much more interactive than torbs

[@possumwithacowboyhat5140]

You’re insane. Torb sets down a turret and then only ever shoots a gun. In literally no way is Torbs kit interesting. Namor has a more interesting kit than most of the Overwatch cast.

[@matheus_brunelli]

@@possumwithacowboyhat5140 namor's abilities don't really make sense nor go well with each other. Like why would he stay in a water bubble almost static in the air? His turrets are basically the same as torb's, with the slight difference of doing more damage when he presses other ability. His ult is just a big AOE damage, like unironically 80% of ults in marvel rivals

[@coconutbun37]

​@@matheus_brunelliIdk if his kit is perfect or anything but I think the idea is that you use the bubble when low and let your turrets finish them off while your in it

[@huuREG]

Turret characters 💀