How Much Do Looks Matter DEBATE w/ FACEandLMS

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

You can find FACE & LMS's unlisted stream here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqeXgIyjmbOib8k

[@ashleyn1979]

@RED PILL REICH what are they choosing? Tall handsome white dudes?

[@ashleyn1979]

@RED PILL REICH I did lol. This guy LMS was scared to agree with Alex on the fact that looks matter. Scared perhaps he was going to lose the argument. No one is disputing looks matter

[@ashleyn1979]

@RED PILL REICH ah the LMS vid. Yeh mostly the same thing but ill watch it. Whats sad is most of these black pillers have advantage over me yet I still go out and try.

[@True_Christian]

1:41:48 --- A token example of incorrect false beliefs that you and Face both hold are your perceptions that big bang, evilution, and heliocentric globe model of the universe are true. In actual fact, no they aren't: all those things have zero legitimate observable a.k.a. scientific proof behind them (cartoon images don't count), and moreover they are provably-false. You two need to read the Bible and research the truth and stop believing the BS that you've been indoctrinated with by all aspects of society's Beast system.

[@ashleyn1979]

@@True_Christian how did this turn into a religious discussion about astronomy?

[@freman75]

Alex, props to you for discussing respectfully with Face, all the other coaches would have avoided the dialogue or worse, talk to him with contempt and insults.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

I'll always be respectful to my guests

[@ThePresentation010]

Because those scammers fear the truff the blackpill brings. Luckily the blackpill *always* collects. Just as it took down rsd, and others; Itll come get those clowns as well. The agepill is the most potent blackpill. And it cant be fought off.

[@ashleyn1979]

@@ThePresentation010 whats the agepill???

[@ThePresentation010]

@@ashleyn1979 exactly what it implies. Getting old.

[@ashleyn1979]

@@ThePresentation010 ah ok. Hmm yeh cant do much except keep fit etc

[@CommandoMaster]

2:11:00 has a good point. Most women don't wanna get approached by ugly/short dudes. They want an attractive looking man for social media.

[@erikjohansson6579]

Chad worshippee.

[@chrisleearies484]

Thats why most broads have that twinkle in their eye and that million dollar smile when they are clinched to Chad in their social media pics

[@baldrickbaldtard8354]

This is epic. I only dreamed of FACEandLMS doing a talk with you. My dream come true!

[@harryh875]

I want faceandlms and Alexander Grace though....

[@SVR1968]

FACEAndLMS is an absolute legend in the Blackpill/I.ncel community, he’s an intelligent, well spoken man, who’s done a lot of great work for the Blackpill/I.ncel community. God bless him.

[@ryanhall9347]

what happened to him?

[@erikjohansson6579]

Yes, hes lead to numerous suicide attempts, god bless.

[@emptyblank099a]

He made men more autistic and give up on life how great.

[@BPFACTS88]

A while ago I've proposed Face to be a Saint of the Blackpill to the Hamudi Council and I'm happy to inform that he's been elected and his inauguration has just happened. From now on, please exclusively refer to him as Saint Face or Saint FACEandLMS.

[@SVR1968]

@@erikjohansson6579 B.ullshit, FACEAndLMS and all the other Blackpill content creators save mens lives, by reassuring men that it’s NOT their fault that vvomen do not choose them.

[@keysersoze657]

Really good and interesting interview. I think Alex is completely right that you need to optimise your looks, he's very rational and realistic. It is easy to just give up but these "normie-cels" have no reason to, it's an uphill battle but you can definitely get results

[@barbellsamurai8014]

lol alex hairline is running on fumes, baldness will chop him down to size

[@louisbarrow4671]

@@barbellsamurai8014 😆😆😆😆😆

[@RodavMetal92]

@@barbellsamurai8014 The dude is fucking Chad though. He has good facial features and a deep manly voice.

[@psdcypress3128]

Alex is a classy guy . Props for keeping his cool and always keeping it real .

[@OfficialBasedologyYT]

I miss face.

[@betallyoungattractive644]

me too!

[@chrisleearies484]

Me too 100

[@gj9157]

Same here

[@harrisbrown6800]

We all do.

[@UrbaNSpiel]

What happened to him? Just quit or what?

[@mogmaximus]

For those that don't know, FaceLMS looks like a taller (6'3) version of Jay-Z. I think he should follow up on the free couching offer. If Alex can get laid with THAT haircut (JFL) I think Face could have a chance.

[@MrRed-tf7bv]

😆

[@59DGO59]

JayZ is actually 6’2, and more like 6´3

[@Ahmed-pp3hs]

Where did you see him?

[@harryh875]

No he needs surgery all over his face

[@mogmaximus]

@@Ahmed-pp3hs I'm a member of his discord. But someone leaked his picture so if you search for him you can find a selfie of him. But basically he looks identical to Jay-Z so if you've seen that rapper you know exactly how he looks.

[@voltinator]

Two different realities here. The reason why Face seems pessimistic and Fire is optimistic IS because of looks. Your looks (incl. race) bake you into a social class. People are 7s or 4s in the face and don't waver much. However what is misunderstood is that a 7 can make themselves out to be the best 7 on the market. It's like tricking out a Honda.

[@GUITARTIME2024]

Who does a tricked out Honda attract. Most people laugh at those type of cars as being for working class guys.

[@markcurry3083]

Their whole thing is that they can’t get any women. They’re 1/2/3/4s. They need to find a girl on their level instead of crying on the internet

[@juhaszpeter6392]

But we don't know the difference between Alex's and Face's looks

[@myscorpions]

Alex thinks he's a 7? More like a 6 at best

[@youtubesucks2755]

@@myscorpions 5 ...... you really think that receding hairline is considered "above average" by women?

[@keirankainth]

There is absolutely truth to the Black Pill model. Genetics trump everything. When we find someone attractive or not we’re essentially thinking “I want to breed with your genetics, I’d have your offspring, you’re suitable”... so yes, there is absolute truth to Black Pill. However, with Game you can appeal to the females emotional well-being and psychological fantasies, whereas a good looking guy with great genetics can be bland as fuck and boring in bed. Don’t rip yourself off by picking only one side. Take aspects from all sides and reap the benefits. Genetics are hugely powerful, especially strong pheromones. A genetically good looking guy WITH game is even more powerful. Game works and is useful, but sadly game will never trump genetics on face value.

[@flandergenetics5294]

Why is that limited to genetics though. An average face and an elite body (which can be trained) and in turn make your face less fat and more defined as well will automatically put you in the top 2% of guys. Thus, even when dealt an average hand it is possible to deliberately raise to the top. This is the principle Alex tried to explain but couldn’t articulate. Chances are, there is more in your control than out of it.

[@Sheo.G]

Literally 0 girls think that. Are you shitting me.

[@keirankainth]

@@Sheo.G to someone that has little to no experience, like yourself, I can see why you’d think that.

[@Sheo.G]

@@keirankainth so instead of defending your point, you shame me and assume, based on literally nothing, that I have little to no experience. 👍🏼

[@keirankainth]

@@Sheo.G Which is exactly what you did. “Literally zero girls think that” is based on no evidence and is simply untrue.

[@Aelle2000]

These boys ganging up on Alex, not letting him finish his sentences, asking leading questions, really bad form. Credit to Alex for not losing his cool and sticking to his guns. This could easily have become an entrapment exercise “dating coach gets exposed / dating coach loses his cool in the face of data”

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

They'll never catch me slipping

[@Stef138]

Good speech

[@InsaneCopePosse]

So please refute face and blackpills arguments. You haven't made any except argument criticism

[@OpenTheirEyes]

The take-away from this, for me, is that game works around the margins. But it is hardly presented that way on the dating coach channels.

[@James_36]

Talking to women works….game is bs

[@thepatriot5000]

It's funny because I don't think LMS and Alex really disagree on that much. I think Alex is pretty realistic on that yeah, looks matter and yeah, a guy who looks fairly average or slightly below is going to have to put in more work to get a certain caliber of girl. It may not even work out for the average looking guy. When Alex said that he wouldn't teach those dudes the same things and that it's true that some dudes are just kinda screwed, I was like... I mean that's really it. I think the big issue with the blackpill stuff is the fact that a lot of normies think "oh it's so over bro" and form this identity with being blackpilled and get really into the community and talk all this stuff about genetic determinism and how they lost the moment they came out of the womb. When in reality, they're probably average looking at worst and simply need to put in more effort and work on their "Face&LMS" so to speak and if they did, they'd get results. Face and other blackpillers say that they believe actual normies should try to work on themselves but I definitely feel like a lot of them get into that community and are persuaded not to try because of the environment they're in.

[@youtubesucks2755]

The point isn't about not working of your 'FACEandLMS', it's about these dating gurus thinking that there are some magic words you can learn to attract any girl. That's just BS. 'Self improvement' advice doesn't actually revolve around self improvement in the mainstream. It teaches men to 'win' the approval of women by learning 'game'. Self improvement literally mean improving your SMV (when it comes to dating). You'd become more succesful at dating by following a fashiion or body building channel than a PUA one.

[@penguin902]

The black pill isn't "it's over". That's just memes spawned from the ideology. The black pill is just recognizing the looks realities. I think anyone can be black pilled and still live normal lives or even just act red pilled(even if they're black pilled mentality). So I think both here make good points and at least recognize a basic shared understanding of the looks reality.

[@RodavMetal92]

Well, I'm only 5'3", so I'm way below average when it comes to height.

[@precisism1804]

The benefit of BP as an attractive man is knowing what women want, aka understanding the female gaze, and then maximizing your looksmaxxing around that.

[@dathunderman4]

Lot of blackpillers don’t understand female gaze tho. Like on that chart, women would not rate the most right guy as the most attractive. That’s the guy men would say is most attractive, but not women

[@precisism1804]

@@dathunderman4 correct

[@OpenTheirEyes]

Women enver give honest answers when polled on the subject of dating. So I had to chuckle when you quoted that stat.

[@emmanuelaghughu8685]

My respect for Alex just went through the roof😂. Interesting interview no doubt

[@VersacePokemon]

Mad respect to both of these guys for having the conversation, in a civil manor too. Although the black pill guy seems too stuck in his ways and closed minded, he’s at least having the conversation which is more than can be said for most of the other black pillers. I hope he takes the 3 months coaching.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

I liked how he got out charts like this was a presentation at a business meeting

[@VersacePokemon]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel Lol, they are so determined to convince people that life is miserable and hopeless

[@westernartifact4163]

I'd be interested in debating you on this topic. I know a pretty active debate channel. Let me know if you're interested!

[@VersacePokemon]

@@westernartifact4163 not sure if your addressing me or Alex here, but I’d be totally down! I think it could be fun and productive

[@westernartifact4163]

@@VersacePokemon hey good stuff! And yeah, I was referring to you ha. There's a channel called Politically Provoked (smallish channel that does debates.) They usually do politics but jump into misc topics as well. They typically interview users first but might make an exception. If it's more of a discussion, that would be equally cool! I'd probably argue similar to LMS on the subject and not entirely against game, but that it's greatly over-emphasized in value.

[@kendrickpalmore4128]

Women are won over much quicker by good looks than confidence. Your not going to have to try too hard if a woman already likes something about you. It's much better than trying to build attraction from nothing. The only time game really works is when you already have a chance with a woman. You can't smooth talk a woman who isn't interested in you. All true blackpillers know women make up their minds on a guy, instantly. The moment you first meet them. You can't change women's minds. They have already decided whether they want to give you a chance a not. Trying to win them over with "game" is so futile. Once again. "Game" only really works if a woman is already interested in you. If she's already giving you a chance. Then game works as a multiplier. But as face and lms says a large part of your results with women is determined by your looks. We have been dealt a hand at birth. We have to make the best of what we were born with.

[@squamish4244]

We all do, men included. Make up our minds instantly, that is. Everyone can detect chemistry. Science! says that both men and women change their physical response within two seconds of meeting someone they like. Both. Women are not so different, and treating them as such is a big part of the problem in the first place.

[@fender1000100]

Yes what you say Is TRUE but theres alot of flawed negativity in the black pill sphere. An example that you can see with me. Black pill says its OVER for bald men. But I've had more women since I lost my hair than when I had hair. So that's not true for ALL men.

[@mojaxon23]

​@@fender1000100 That's just because the premise that bald men are unattractive to women is false, not that women don't want unnattractive men. They just don't think being bald is unattractive. The one flaw I see with some black pill people is thinking that all women are attracted to the same factors. They are right in that if women think you're unattractive you have no chance. There's just too large a variety of factors for different women that makes you unattractive. It is practically impossible if you have of these multiple factors that make you guaranteed to have some trait that any given woman just won't accept. If you're just bald, but everything else is good, you're only excluded from women that don't like bald. If you're fat and bald, you are now excluded from every woman that doesn't like fat or bald guys. Add another factor and that compounds further. For example, I look great. But every woman that doesn't want black guys, requires you to have a car, requires you to have a high paying job, be 6ft, and/or have some charisma I am excluded from because I cannot meet any of the requirements without truly sacrificial effort or at all. I can't imagine a woman that doesn't find a deal breaker trait in me. How could someone like me possibly overcome that many factors to become attractive enought that the odds aren't a decimal?

[@masteryoda498]

There’s no such thing as game, when it comes to relationships and s*x, vvomen are the CHOOSERS, and as the CHOOSERS they PRESELECT the men they want, based on the man’s looks and race, not what comes out of his mouth.

[@adispipic5779]

So unless you are a classic white guy its over even thoughyou are tall and well built?

[@James_36]

This is what exposed the idiot for what he is. Game is bs and pua scammers have alot to answer for

[@SPACEDOUT19]

its genes that select other good genes to procreate with, attraction is a bio-chemical reaction that we dont have control of, its automatic

[@DeleteTheElite_]

Some people look for reasons to keep trying, and some people look for reasons to give up.

[@BigRoqq]

Just say you don’t like what he’s saying lol

[@DeleteTheElite_]

@@BigRoqq Who? FaceLMS?

[@BigRoqq]

@Kool Graffiti The black pill is the realization that most factors in life are genetic determinism. Its not about giving but instead coming to an understanding. You can apply this to your life whichever way you like. Its up to you. But as long as you are aware of the circumstance and understand what it all comes down to in the end.

[@medicann_coping]

10 minutes are missing in the end. full video is on my channel.

[@pipasburner946]

doing god's work

[@Lo-to7zh]

Playing with Fire is such a liar 🤯. He said any normal guy can order girl from Tinder like pizzas 😂 Making people delusional…

[@MasterInHD]

Best crossover in anime history lol jk. But for real, I never expected this type of collab/argument between you two. Awesome video!

[@erice.3892]

i think Indian P should come on and debate these guys directly because his success defies all of their logic.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

That would have been interesting indeed. But these guys are just too stuck in their own mindsets that even if Indian PE brought one of his hot chicks he banged, they'll say he paid for it

[@user-zz5og2lf7p]

PE is not ugly at all tho, lol. Especially for an indian dude he is pretty good looking.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@user-zz5og2lf7p Lol. I'm quite ugly. But thanks for the confidence boost. I'd rate myself at a soft 5/5.5. I have my height as an advantage, my sense of humor at my disposal. I use what I have, make the most of it. I'm still quite chubby and keep my shirt on while fucking girls the first time lolol

[@ThePresentation010]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel you have alot of jbw. That's all you really need. "Its like a person saying I don't have alot of money but i do have alot of gold." Like bro wtf..

[@ashleyn1979]

@@user-zz5og2lf7p indian PE is probably a 4.5 to 5. I know guys better looking than him that dont get success.

[@enjoyurselfwhileucan4960]

As a black piller I say "relationship " as my goal. I disagree with blue pills who say, like in this video, in incels can't get f*cked which the impression we'll driving/walking around looking for one night stands when we'll seeking someone to be with for years.

[@WillyWanka]

I am a good case study here. I am 6'4" and above average looking in my 20's I was lean and athletic - but I had/have putrid game and I battled so hard with women that I nearly killed myself. Now, I suppose I did get the opportunities to get with girls but if your game is that dog shit like mine is/was then you're fkd anyway. I would gladly be 6' only and have great game.

[@sammzz]

I really gotta respect you for the way you carried out the debate. I’m a big fan of both channels content, slightly leaning towards FACEs content, but you have got my mad respect even though FACE appeared rude at times

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Thanks man, much appreciated

[@Lo-to7zh]

Why rude lol

[@TinaLove-os7lq]

Pretty women with less attractive men FEEL CHEATED and WILL CHEAT. There is heavy resentment of having to SETTLE or DATE DOWN.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Strongly disagree. If the guy has his game on point, the "Pretty woman" will actually do anything to keep him around and NOT have him cheat

[@Lo-to7zh]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel You have no clue. You keep lying to sell your course 🤦‍♂️😹

[@tiktokasylum5186]

Where did you get that state from buddy

[@Lo-to7zh]

@@tiktokasylum5186 Seduction coaches keep coming with there BS INFORMATION about attraction while the most important factor is LOOK. Women love men over 6 ft and preferably with a good face ! You can act in the best way possible but if your look is not right you’ll be eliminated whatever you do, but seduction coaches don’t want you to know this so you stay dependent on them so they can make more money 💰

[@Lo-to7zh]

@AGuy4573 Playing with fire is an incel watching series alone in his flat 😂

[@iownthepowned]

The reason that he can't accept Indian PE's lay count is because it undermines the entirety of his philosophy. Excellent discussion though boys

[@ashleyn1979]

Yes if indian PE was legit it wud crush all their beliefs

[@mogmaximus]

Normally FaceLMS acknowledges the "outliars", not sure why he was different this time around with childish things like saying he's "stuck with a single mom" or implying she's a Russian trying to get US citizenship.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@mogmaximus He was just trying to find ways to support his argument. Meanwhile Indian PE is the one who needs a US citizenship and she's a citizen lol. I wrongly assumed that she was a single mom. She isn't. Just a cute russian who traveled back to Russia a week after he banged her

[@hurlentropy6866]

The Black Pill over exaggerates the importance of certain features like jawline and height. Men have told me that my jawline is in the top 5%, but women still call me ugly. I've approached countless times with no avail. I still continue to improve other variables, but I still receive the comments. You do not need a great jawline to pick up women nor does your height need to exceed 6'. You need a decent set of eyes. This is because women are driven more strongly by emotions. Your facial expression (eyes, lips, hair) plays a pivotal role in attracting women. The stronger a woman's attraction toward you (physically), the more reward she will receive (validation). Thus, a feedback loop is created. Her perception of you is connected to your outward image (appearance). Body language is a large component of this. The features that women always seem to comment on are eyes, smile, hair (" I like his eyes, "he has a great smile", "I love his hair style", etc). It takes basic pattern recognition to detect this....You do not need data or studies to confirm. Women react so strongly to the eye area + smile because it shows expression or emotion. The eyes and lips are more dynamic in a conversation. Do you think they are focusing on the jawline? This is why red-pillers use these examples as coutner-arguments when in reality, both sides have defects. Here are a few obvious truths: (1) For a sexual relationship to prosper, you must first pass a minimum threshold with respect to appearance. Everyone has a range of attraction (lower to upper bound). (2) Her interest in your personality is dependent on the strength of physical attraction. Both components work together in tandem. (3) Outlier cases always exist.

[@ashleyn1979]

@@hurlentropy6866 can I see ur pic? Or connect via IG? Curious

[@ashleyn1979]

I feel like this LMS wasnt really listening to the fact that Alex said looks do play a part lol. He seemed to refuse to even agree.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

He chose what to agree and what not to. Based on the reality he's constructed. The thing with me is I constructed my reality around my experience, my friends', our customers, and just countless real life examples. He stuck to charts and continued feeding into his confirmation bias

[@ashleyn1979]

@@-whackd 6 foot 3????? Omfg! Ok wtf! Lol!!!!!!!!!

[@metasequoia3097]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel "The thing with me is I constructed my reality around my experience, my friends', our customers, and just countless real life examples." So did Face, so do all humans. What are you, levitating above the rest of us? fucking lol Every single fucking time with you normies "nuh uh, my reality is correct and your's is wrong and doodoo". Like fucking clock work.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@metasequoia3097 Cool story bro

[@harryh875]

@@ashleyn1979 stfu, have you even seen his actual face?

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

There's a rumor circulating around that Mr. FaceandLMS has taken his own life. This is a serious accusation. I hope he is OK.

[@jmass4207]

Game is beyond just good social skills. It’s strategic manipulation (I use that word free of value judgment) of a conversation toward a desired outcome. It has a lot of parallels with sales. Unless you genuinely believe a sale cannot ever be made to someone that isn’t fully convinced that the product will be massively beneficial to them, you should not turn a deaf ear to game. It’s all about cleverly getting maybe’s to yes’ instead of no’s to yes’. Smv is all about ranking up as many no’s to maybe’s as possible. Not many women can be forced directly into the yes category by genetics alone like blackpillers believe unless they’re drunk. To be sure, bad looking guys are far more likely to start in the no category and good looking guys have an easier time getting the maybe’s to yes’.

[@SVR1968]

Game doesn’t exist, so your argument is invalid.

[@youtubesucks2755]

I would like to see the stats on closing rates of the best sales guys. If it's anything below 5%, it's not their "skill" but more like being at the right place at right time. Even the broken clock is correct twice a day

[@vet-x-fit2761]

Game is dead...... Instagram and credit score seems to be the trend that's happening

[@mogmaximus]

after the John Anthony +1000 girls scam I lost all hope for PwF, but this epic interview made me a PwF fan again

[@seif9923]

''after the John Anthony +1000 girls scam I lost all hope for PwF'' can u elaborate ?

[@mogmaximus]

@@seif9923 PwF/Alex had an interview (or several) where he interviewed and vouched for John Anthony, in the PUA community JA is known as being the biggest scam-artist around. A nobody who decided he can make his generic PU course sell if he makes the claim that he has slept with 1400+ girls.

[@seif9923]

@@mogmaximus yeah that guy lol, idk he seemed fishy with the 1400 girls i am pretty sure i didnt even talk to a 1000 people in my whole life.

[@True_Christian]

​@@mogmaximus All PUAs/dating coaches/whatever they call themselves are scam artists. A woman is either attracted to you or she isn't. No amount of "game" can change her decision, period. Hence, anyone selling anything like that is a snake oil salesman for sure.

[@KurokamiNajimi]

2:03:50 one of Wheat Waffles’ first appearances. He was in at least one other FACEandLMS stream before his channel took off

[@FunnyDolphin782]

He was so excited to argue. He’s chilled out since but he’s still kind of a p*ssy

[@harrisbrown6800]

It's so cute! His previous call-in was named 'astounding pilot.'

[@BalazsFingszEgyikFingja]

Its pretty crazy to watch the comments on the guy's stream when he is sharing screen. Like Alex literally havent even finished his train of thought and theyre already fucking insulting him and calling him out.:DD

[@scottandrews947]

That's because he's wrong about everything. As someone that was heavily involved in PUA from 2007 to 2014, it doesn't work anymore (it used to work though). RP is outdated and useless in the current dating environment.

[@samupon_a_star8258]

Alex, no offense though honestly dude, you are average, not above average looking 🤭 You look after your body really well which is definitely an advantage for you. What I wanna know is when you refer to a woman being better looking then the guy, are you talking mainly about face or incorporating body as well?

[@rushpea447]

I feel like FaceandLMS kept trying to “catch” Alex out. Like “hah, you agreed with me”. I definitely think that aspects of Black-pill is accurate. In the same vain, aspects of the Red-pill is accurate. It’s all just understanding the current dating climate and optimising. Only believing in Red-pill or only Believing in Black-pill is so self limiting. Stop identifying with only one ideology and have a balanced opinion that works for you.

[@ThePresentation010]

Redpill doesnt work if you're deformed. Blackpill teaches you the truth. It acknowledges redpill works after a certain threshold. Blackpill says that if you have 20$ you cant buy something worth 50$.

[@Haddonfield63]

@@ThePresentation010if you have 20$ stop worrying about anything over 20$ when you know something costs 50$ . But y’all love to sit around and complain about never being able afford 50$ worth

[@ThePresentation010]

@@Haddonfield63 not everyone has 20$. The deformed, have 0$. Status, age, geo, there's alot your low iq doesn't understand or see.

[@cerebralassassin2060]

Of course its easy 2 get women 2day if you dont mind single mothers and overweight women.. Dating coaches never point 70 % of American women are overweight among only 12 out of 195 countries in the world.Its not a game problem its a supply problem in terms of proportionality !

[@RMoore713ify]

Napoleon being short is a myth. He was average height for his time period.

[@docdiggler6581]

You tried lol. You have the patience of a Saint. Good debate.

[@True_Christian]

OP is some hilarious spin-doctoring! Fire got absolutely owned by Face, badly.

[@iceman9561]

FaceandLMS has good frame control and is a good speaker, should try game

[@CommandoMaster]

He stutters too much, and can't really defend a lot of counter arguments, so no.

[@davemayer6128]

I think he still nervous due to the fact hes awfully ridicule from previous pua debate ganging him on his argument

[@kira111a4]

game is for normal looking people

[@Low_pH]

He was involved in pua before

[@SVR1968]

@@CommandoMaster No, FACE is an articulate, well spoken man, and his points are all backed up by science and observable reality.

[@shutterbutter5043]

What’s really sad about this is the fact that he never listened to you. You explained time and time again that you agree that being good looking has SOME advantages in dating and in life, however there are still “ugly” guys out there who make things work by playing to their other strengths. Not sure why he was so stubborn and stuck in his ways. It really just sounded like he wasn’t even listening you. Props to you (Alex) for staying calm and respectfully debating. PWF nation is behind u 🙏🏽

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Thanks man!!

[@mogmaximus]

Face says on his streams that he's usually drunk for these things so that he doesn't get too nervous. This wasn't Face at his best unfortunately. His drunk podcasting is entertaining and interesting to listen to, but I don't think the alcohol helps during these debates, it made him come across as stubborn and childish even though he usually isn't.

[@shutterbutter5043]

@@mogmaximus not sure why he’d need alcohol just for these debates. Must be another stemming issue

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@mogmaximus If he's using alcohol as a crutch to just talk, then you truly know he hasn't done any kind of legit cold approach or followed good advice to ever get better. Then just resorted to "data" to justify his lack of results

[@heikorudi6105]

Yeah, but there are guys who no one can safe, and Coaches never want to accept that because those guys are paying the bills. The hopeless cases that are returning costumers

[@SVR1968]

So Alex playing with fire is blaming video games for the increase in s*xless men? Has Alex ever heard of the 20/80 rule?

[@Jackholiday1025]

Oh shut the fuck with that 20/80 crybaby shit. The advancement of The internet and video games is a big reason. So many guys ( and women) are rotting behind a screen. They get all their entertainment from from a screen, they get all their socialization from a screen, and they get all their sexual release from a screen so it’s no wonder people are having less sex, have less social skills, are mentally and physically less healthy. Any one can get laid and get a GF because it’s a numbers game. Look around and it’s obvious that you can be fat, ugly, weird, a scumbag because for every guy there is a kind of woman that will be down. Of course it’s much easier and harder for some but anyone can do it if they put in the effort and over time you get better at it hopefully in addition to improving yourself overall. You have to look at it as the bar having been set very low for men. If you get ripped as a man and then dress well then you really set yourself apart. There’s never been a better time to be fat because of how common and accepted it is but there’s also never been a better time for men to be ripped because of how great you look in contast to everyone else.

[@DavidW-ng5zv]

​@@Jackholiday1025Many men have no vvomen attracted to them. There isn't someone for everyone. These men resort to video games and such because they can't get any.

[@wojakwoes3970]

You don’t have to be gay to recognize attractiveness. -FACEandLMS @ 32:24 🤣

[@edwardedwards6785]

Difference between game and looks is quality vs quantity. The shameless can dumpster dive in meaningless relationships. The honest and sincere can risk lifelong loneliness having standards and being themselves. Some are cursed with the worst of both worlds.

[@wignatsinevitable4285]

“I don’t advocate lying to women” -Alex Meanwhile he has John Anthony on who every infield he’s just lying about who he is

[@BigRoqq]

Youve stated status can crush an average guy which isn’t true. What about the 2k gamer who just recently was crying on camera because he caught he girl cheating with a guy who was beneath him in the fame aspect?

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

You're disagreeing based on one example?

[@BigRoqq]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel Disagreed with your point. Totally false my guy.

[@tiktokasylum5186]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel but you used anecdotal stuff earlier

[@Truth187X]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel You guys do the same thing when it comes to blackpiller's anecdotal experiences and evidence

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@Truth187X Yup. But we don't give "ONE" example. We give 100's of layreports to bash the "anecdotal experiences"

[@Josue-xz6xq]

Face guy is so pessimistic it’s like he’s speaking just to try and win a debate rather than listen

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

He just goes "But look at this data. It was in the washington post"

[@mogmaximus]

To be fair, look at his history with PUA interviews, he has been so unfairly ridicolued by every PUA coach, so you can't blame Face for coming to the interview with a debate mindset. With that said, Face has his ups and down, sometimes he's great, and sometimes his negative life experiences affects him too much

[@BigRoqq]

This is a debate. Interviewer came with the disagreements so wtf are you on about?

[@DZ302-Z28]

Most of these lms dudes need to leave their basements. They're going full retard & jumping the shark.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@DZ302-Z28 Haha

[@americanman5908]

Saying I have an Indian friend who has 150 lays so anyone can do it is a fallacy. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. Saying I have seen it is not enough. If your program worked that well you could easily charge 30,000 a year because many millionaires would love to increase their notch count that much. By the way, I also live in Florida and got a lot of lays last year but I have a lot of money and unique gimmicks I employ. If 30% of men did not get laid in the last year (study is old and number are worse now), and that number is skyrocketing every year then something is causing that. It’s super clear ladies standards are increasing and game isn’t enough. Money and game and logistics and strategy works but to act like game is the end all be all is an outdated strategy from 10 years ago

[@AlekNovy]

That's a great point, and proven by basic economics. This PUA/Game stuff has existed for 30 years now. Millionaires would have had time to learn that you can just buy a skill that gets you laid. If it really was possible to get those results by just paying for a skill, then PUAs would be able to charge ridicolous sums and work with millionaries. Why do they bother so much to convince us plebs that this shit is real? They'd be too busy working with millionaires.

[@thereallegend4lyfe]

@@Nate-uf4xk You guys literally change the definition of "game" each time your define it!

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

That small chance that his laycount is actually 150, how much would that change your reality? Not much right? Since you've had an extreme confirmation bias that you've dealt with your whole life. It's completely understandable that my business partner getting more pussy than you seems fake to you. He's banged some really hot chicks and some average. But they've always been more than his objective SMV of 5/5.5. The lowest I've seen him bang when he's been living with me has been an objective 7 and the highest a 9.5 (he wrote an LR in the mastermind for this girl) Why/how exactly can he do this?

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@@Nate-uf4xk Not really my job to go do cold approach. I did it out of complete self interest. I never had a mindset of "Only the good looking ones get laid. so, I'm doomed". I've seen better looking guys get laid who were my friends. I've seen handsome men getting chicks easily at a club. But, that never discouraged me one bit. I never had an end goal. I was obsessed. I didn't want to get arranged married to an ugly from Indian. I made it here and partnered with PWF strictly from the dedication I put in for my OWN success with women. Being a textgame coach is a biproduct of it I reach the looks threshold of lesser women than Alex does. No question in that, but my game is equally as good as some of the naturals I've seen in action with hot girls they pull home effortlessly

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Oh btw. His laycount is at 159 to be precise. He banged a chick on Thursday and just got back from a date with another from Tinder. But, I guess that was a fallacy too

[@CommandoMaster]

2:35:00 is also true that there are more men than women not only in the west, but around the world. Think China/India, where they only want male babies (only child rule). Then you have massive amount of guys who are below average in attractiveness not able to find a partner.

[@badgasaurus4211]

Face’s chat is full of bootlickers. ‘Get this full out of here he keeps interrupting’ What?

[@youtubesucks2755]

@John Sampson just like you guys

[@youtubesucks2755]

@John Sampson I see

[@hurlentropy6866]

Extremes are still very rare, even if it doesn't seem like that is the case. We are exposed to it at a very high frequency...much higher than the past

[@breakingzilian5371]

One thing Alex partially doesn't understand is that looks compose status when women have abundance of resources and good social life prospects. The attraction women have towards high status is dependent on how much resources she already have. In nature a woman would seek high status bcs it could potentially mean more resources for her and the offspring. When women are in the top, they go for looks, and now that she got resources, status is mostly based on looks.

[@Juan_rivera]

This guy brings a chart to a KZbin debate and wonders why he doesn't get girls

[@Juan_rivera]

@John Sampson 💀💀💀

[@grantgants6575]

Yeah man, facts are usually hard for most people to bear.

[@Juan_rivera]

@@grantgants6575 ?

[@BigRoqq]

Childish

[@Lo-to7zh]

Redpiller are just scammers , you don’t need to pay to learn game ! It’s free all over the web.

[@Apollon007www1987]

Can you tell me some good websites, please ?

[@blackpillowajulka3176]

Looks is everything.

[@crowneproductions9908]

I did not learn a lot from this debate. The bottom line is that you're both right and I think Alex even mentions at one point something along the lines of why are we arguing about this "just do both". If you're genetically average or ugly guy, then you need to work on other areas of market value and up your in-field game. If you're a really good looking guy, then maximize that shit by lifting and doing whatever to look your best (facial hair, tattoos etc.) and then you don't have to have amazing game (but you still can and should). I don't see the purpose of this "debate". Developing great game AND looking the best you possibly can are not mutually exclusive.

[@Dman40000]

You're only taking away half of the understanding here. You're presupposing that all men will have an imperative to always be competing in the same playing field that is life, career, women etc.

[@FunnyDolphin782]

The purpose of this debate is to show that one viewpoint is more full of shit AKA blackpillers have some good points bur most of them are huge p*ssies with poopy pants victim mentalities who are obsessed with exceptions

[@-thenewguybehind-7160]

I genuinely feel bad for the dude.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

@Aldo Steel Suuure. Yeah. Completely false

[@ashleyn1979]

@Marsonic lol dude not saying Indian PE bangs a 10 every week but its definately possible he bangs here and there.why do you doubt it?

[@ashleyn1979]

@Marsonic uh wow! Ok I can see you're cynical. So yeh im as bad looking as indian PE and a lot shorter. Lol. Im living proof you can still do it.

[@ashleyn1979]

@Marsonic If you have seen what Ive seen you will literally be dumbfounded. Ive got Indian friends who kill it with women. Non pickup guys though. Naturals you could say.

[@truthofbeingignominious610]

@Aldo Steel 49 prostitutes and a single mom! Now the blackpill is debunked :kek: The fact, that he has to settle with a single mom proofs the blackpill even more

[@mojaxon23]

I mean if I have definitive proof that I only have a 1% type of chance with finding a woman, a woman isn't really worth the effort.

[@rm1371]

He thinks he is above average?!!? Ok. The man's father is not attractive as he said.

[@daysgoneby3527]

How can face not call him out on this bullsht. Face of all people should understand this guy couldn't get Jack sht

[@Sidionian]

Thanks for this. Great debate. You put them in their place with class!

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

;)

[@Sidionian]

@WomenHateShortMen Like the anecdotes you Black Pillers always bring? Right.

[@jeremys3951]

@@Sidionian blackpillers bring solid proof not anecdotes

[@Sidionian]

@@jeremys3951 Black Pillers bring nothing *but* anecdotes.

[@FunnyDolphin782]

@@jeremys3951 Black pillers are a buncha pussies, obviously they’re not gunna get any pussy

[@eclipsez0r]

20 women by 30yo is a low lay count... ok Mr Jester maxxer

[@beganitdidnt6535]

in comparison to chads probably

[@vidform]

I think the take-away is that no matter how ugly you are, you should still keep yourself together. If you aren't good-looking enough to attract a romantic partner, you still need to take care of yourself just in general. I'm glad Face puts out content just to give us something to think about when it comes to human attraction. Both guys brought good points.

[@ChiguireBelgrano]

I'm going to be honest. I tried listening to the video for more than 10 minutes but just couldn't find it in myself to even continue. No disrespect to the people on the chat during the live stream and to the guest, FACEandLMS (they brought some good points on how men should work on maximizing their looks to increase their Sexual Marketplace Value), but the defeatist aptitude and overall depressive energy they seem to convey is something I can't simply tolerate. Seeing comments on chat where they disregard standard principles like going to the gym and improving your social skills just because of your average or slight-below-average looks (not including extreme below-average cases because there's little to nothing you can do in those scenarios) comes off as nihilistic and plain depressive. I don't want to assume, but to be honest, I can't find myself thinking that most of these people have actually put in the work: they haven't gone to the gym and trained effectively for years; they haven't actually worked to improve their social skills by going out and meeting people; as such, they haven't seen any positive results whatsoever because they haven't actually taken actions that will show proof of how these things can help. Instead, they'd rather accept their lot in life, which is cool, that's your prerogative and you're free to choose what you do. Just not my thing. Props to both PWF and to the guest for keeping things respectful amidst extremely opposite views.

[@grantgants6575]

If you’re below average and you’re pursuing the gym and improving “social skills” purely for female attention and validation, the truth is it is a complete waste of time. It’s like sculpting a tard, women still don’t care becAuse that’s not how they operate. You believe your “social skills” matter when judgement is already made before you open mouth, and whatever you say is filtered through the negative image they formulated about purely on looks. They don’t want to engage unless you meet the require else where, which is getting immense amount of money and status. The “black pill”, what face bases his philosophy on is merely just the truth. The nihilist/defeatist aspect is only subject to the person expressing their views in the subject. News flash, the truth is usually depressing, we as humans always seek an escape from the truth usually to our own demise, such as wasting time, money and self respect to PUA selling you a cope and a dream. I personally, have no problems seeking fitness as it’s far more important than purely aesthetic and its benefits outweigh everything, a healthy body equals a healthy mind which is far more important to me then the folly of “chasing” women through bodybuilding. I have no problems with men seeking bodybuilding, as long as they accept basic truths regarding attraction and they be honest with themselves and learn how women choose their mates and what women find as truly attractive. Forget the term “blackpill” it’s nothing more then the truth. The saying speaks volume, “the truth will set u free”.

[@alan2102X]

"in extreme below-average cases there's little to nothing you can do". lol there it is: BLACKPILL.

[@LS-kw7pk]

Your comment was longer than the time you watched the video.

[@Stef138]

True

[@WhitePillMan]

The problem is guys always think game is just “words”. Words are likely the least important aspect of game as words are commonly known as a limited form of communication with paraverbals and body language mattering significantly more.

[@CertifiedTyrone]

Exactly game is everything & adjusting to the situation in front of you

[@WhitePillMan]

@@DarwinianDetonator wrong

[@hurlentropy6866]

The perception of personality depends on looks. Its all connected.

[@WhitePillMan]

@@DarwinianDetonator most guys aren’t ugly though so your premise is flawed. Statistically most guys are average looking or above average looking. For the ugly guys, it all depends on if they looksmax in the gym and style and game. Depending on how much effort they put in to all of those, yes the can definitely succeed with those women. 80-90% of them won’t put any effort in though.

[@hurlentropy6866]

@coach whitepill.... Looks determines the probability of success. If you improve looks, the probability increases. Suddenly , people start perceiving you differently when your appearance is enhanced. We live in a picture centric world that cares very deeply about appearance

[@aabrami68]

Playing With Fire is a good man. He has my respect.

[@healthfitnessentials7446]

you can’t simply assume a significant correlation or causation from statistics. Example: the 19 presidents being over 6’. One would have to look at all the competitors for the presidency in those 19 examples and determine that they didn’t win to any competitors who were taller. Also, all other variables (such as education, social connections, persuasive ability, political climate, likeability, etc) would need to be controlled for. A person would have to demonstrate with strong significance that X is heavily or mostly determined by Y before a reasonably strong conclusion can be made. You can’t just determine that height is a significant factor just by looking at the data. A proper and thorough analysis would need to be done.

[@craigferge4702]

Some things are just obvious

[@flandergenetics5294]

statistics can be collected from controlled experiments.

[@AlekNovy]

You're not making the point you think you're making. Yes, a president isn't chosen from the general populace, they're chosen from a pool of candidates. And you think you scored a point by saying "oh, but is the president much taller compared to the other candidates". You're forgetting that to become a candidate you have to be chosen. And which people even get to that stage is determined by things such as height. So yes, the candidates are taller than average, but that PROVES the point, it doesn't disprove it ffs.

[@WheatWaffles]

I also raised that 58% of CEOs for fortune 500 companies are also over 6', when again the national average is 15%. That's a sample size of 500 which is more difficult to chalk off using "correlation doesn't equal causation".

[@AlekNovy]

@@WheatWaffles And not just that. "Correlation doesn't equal casuation" isn't even a valid argument. It's just a warning. The true full statement in science is actually "correlation isn't ALWAYS/necessarily causation". With that said, most of the time causation and correlation are related (just not always, and not automatically). The reason the warning exists is so we watch out for the exceptions. In cases like this however - a significant percentage of tall people among the winning candidates/CEOs is almost assuredly evidence of causation. Also, it's the responsibility of the skeptic to find an alternate explanation. If you can't find an alternate explanation, then yes, it is causation. You can't just parrot a line like "causation isn't always causation" and think you've made an argument. You actually have to point to an alternative explanation.

[@1Bridem]

Yes looks matter but is not everything. Anyone that’s black pill just is full disempowering beliefs. Fix you mindset and everything changes.

[@heikorudi6105]

Looks are everything. She NEEDS to like your looks. That doesn't mean you have to look like a supermodel.

[@mortizmortiz]

Yep there is a looks threshold

[@grantgants6575]

Having a delusional mindset affects only one person, yourself. Black pill is the truth, nothing more. A woman bases her entire judgment on the mans physically appearance before anything. Your “game” is irrelevant as if she’s already attracted to you, you can get away with saying anything. I love this whole “mindset” changes your environment bs concept. It seems familiar to the affirmations bs that has become very popular recently.

[@hurlentropy6866]

Men just love to stroke their ego

[@True_Christian]

@@heikorudi6105 "That doesn't mean you have to look like a supermodel." --- Yes it does, *or else* she is going to cheat on you with men who do as soon as she gets the chance, whilst leeching off your money and resources all the while.

[@pitpride1220]

This mindset for these guys is sad. I get it. But there's got to be a better way to help them.

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Some people are beyond help...

[@Stef138]

It's apathy crazy

[@youtubesucks2755]

by making women approach but we all know it's not gonna happen.

[@Xd1981xd]

Face is awesome. So are you. Thanks for being nice to him

[@PMRDattebayo]

I have bad social skils and 0 game but i have good looks and i need to do nothing to date 99,9 % of the woman that i want.... i give a me a 8,5/10..... so looks definity is the most important... game just will work if are a less 6/10 maybe a 5/10 with luck.... And money just will care more with old woman, for younger (15-27 years).looks will be most important...

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Well said. Yup. Looks are most important, but in no way are looks the ONLY thing. I've openly talked about that. But, 5/10's or such SMV guys can still crush it in game

[@PMRDattebayo]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel Agree to, Congratulations for the debate! More one important thing is now how satisfy a woman sexually, I think most guys definitely don't know, and also don't be a broken guy, have a plan for your life( No because of woman but because yourself want live better).

[@kira111a4]

i am happy for u man i am 6 or 7 and i am tryna get girls it's hard for me 6 or 7 is not enough i improve my game

[@Time4aKiss]

Alex is just trying to sell courses. He made no good points. I can’t believe ppl pay him for this crap

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Okay

[@markcurry3083]

@@PlayingWithFireChannel man the black pillers in the comments are so fucking triggered. I’m not successful for great looking but god damn these guys are sad. Imagine spending your time looking at data to support that ugly guys can’t get any women at all

[@SVR1968]

@@markcurry3083 No, us Blackpillers are straight shooters who tell it like it is, but unfortunately you P U A fanboys are too stupid to understand how male-female relationships work in the real world.

[@gogglessukass7852]

The problem with blackpill is it takes the reality of lookism and exaggerates it to a point where the message received is give up. I love your vids faceandlms and hope you succeed in life. Thank you Alex for having the patience to do this you have probably saved a volcel. Face is very smart even if he constantly self deprecates his intelligence. He’s in a hard spot but I hope he finds his way out of this nihilistic world view. The glass is half full, face. Happiness is closer then you think.

[@ThePresentation010]

So you're saying he needs the white pill. The white pill is to glow up from the blackpill.

[@Facthuntcentral]

If you get any kind of surgery to get/impress women, then you lost the battle a long time ago.

[@scottandrews947]

Men lost the war decades ago, long before you and I were born.

[@MrEvol94]

Looks are only important to get the foot in, the rest is up to personality also no matter how good you look you're never going to be everybody's type. With a negative mindset like that "black pill" talk, the personality won't be attractive to women. Women (like men) prefer to date/hook up with positve people. Do the best you can with what you got. Receiding hariline? go bald or pay for a transplant. Fat/Skinny? Hit the gym. Short? Find a woman who's shorter. If you can grow facial hair don't waste it by having a clean shave. Keep teeth white. Wear clothes that fit nicely. It's not a problem with women, it's a problem with men losing their manliness.

[@701delbronx8]

Mogged waffles at the end lol

[@jayaugustine5480]

He sure did lol

[@serggla924]

Face probably should of learned why he has to workout from that alone. You don’t do it for girls you do it so you can fight and not get mogged like a little biatch

[@WheatWaffles]

Are you talking about where he lost frame at 2:40:11

[@salvatore5553]

@Marsonic Are you happy?

[@ladistar]

@John Sampson Mike Tyson

[@SVR1968]

Maybe I missed it, but why wasn’t the issue of body language raised? Body language is the most powerful form of non verbal communication that human beings can have with each other. When a vvoman either rejects you, or PRESELECTS you, she will usually do it with her body language, and it’s not hard to read.

[@dubiouslifeform8259]

You're wrong about guys playing video games not getting anything because they play games, I've always played video games yet I've always had a few girls interested in Me, and I've been with my current gf for 11 years.

[@LS-kw7pk]

What he’s talking about it is the stereotypical gamer that stays in the basement and games for 16 hrs a day. They wake up, game and go to sleep. Then rinse and repeat. No girls in this routine.

[@helbermelo7590]

Let´s be honest... in a long term, video games seem to be so more interesting than women.

[@jamesopoku9391]

Yhhhhhhhhhh😂😂

[@barbellsamurai8014]

notice how in the thumbnail for this video the guy uses an old pic in which his hair is far less receded. Norwood reaper marches on regardless of which thubnail you use

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Lol. You posted this comment 3 times.... You sure you're not butthurt for some reason?

[@anthonyzeal6263]

Great stream. A touch of bias in both perceptions. Even if either wanted to, they couldn’t yield otherwise it would render their premises null and harm their brands. If face did the training and got a girlfriend and lived happily ever.. he would abandon half his base. If fire realized the cold hard truth of the trajectory for the future of SMV for most, he’d lose potential clients who’ve still had a glimmer of hope.

[@Dman40000]

You don't really understand FACE's position if you think getting a gf would somehow invalidate the blackpill. Based on the way your write I think you just like to hear yourself talk.

[@ashleyn1979]

Wow from 2:00 hours on. My God when the callers start talking! These guys are so lost. I wanna see these guys. Always choosing extreme examples.

[@onemanslifemission]

You are loving this aren't you

[@ashleyn1979]

@@onemanslifemission lol its funny and sad as well!

[@markrutte5637]

sunday night in your prime and you're here. where did it all go so wrong?

[@beganitdidnt6535]

my life is garbage

[@eon001]

40 minutes in. Enjoying this. You should edit this into clips. There is some gem's in this.

[@eon001]

I'm at the 2 hour mark. Pair bonding is a myth. Grow up son. These men really think there going to find virgins.

[@VersacePokemon]

Good stuff Alex, I’ve been waiting for someone to debate one of these black pill guys. At the end of the day it’s a coping mechanism, a pity party, and an excuse to be lazy and not work on themselves. I feel sorry for those guys

[@PlayingWithFireChannel]

Arranged marriage is their only resort :P

[@hurlentropy6866]

YINYANG........BLUEPILLBLACKPILL......Which variable creates the disparity?

[@VersacePokemon]

@western artifact

[@Truth187X]

You are so bias to think if the majority of the community is like this. Have you ever heard of a gymcel? You ever meet an ugly, socially awkward athletes prominent in their cities or communities?

[@VersacePokemon]

@@Truth187X working on yourself is more than just hitting the gym. And yeah, plenty of prominent athletes who are ugly/awkward get hot girls, it’s called status. Look how many ugly ass rappers get the finest girls. To say looks is the only thing that matters is just straight up retarded.

[@manny3095]

i did the math. only 5% of women in america between the ages of 18 and 35 are on tinder.

[@rodericblack4657]

How did you come to this figure?

[@manny3095]

@@rodericblack4657 find the total user base of tinder in the usa between ages 18 and 35, find the ratio of men to women on tinder (around 80/20), then you can find how many women are on tinder. then divide that by the total number of women in america and youll get around 5 percent. all of these numbers are googleable.

[@BigRoqq]

@@manny3095 Doesn’t exclude the rest of social media. Or maybe they got off tinder.

[@manny3095]

@@BigRoqq yea i know im only talking about tinder though

[@BigRoqq]

@@manny3095 And im saying there are different factors to what you’re arguing.

[@Dust_YourselfOff]

Man this was great. Couldn’t stop watching

[@tattooedrocker25]

Damn alex them guys must be down bad on the looks department lol

[@harryh875]

They are lol

[@hipoint40cal39]

Its ovER

[@LS-kw7pk]

The black pill philosophy is skewed. If they actually observed someone with real game they would be blown away. I have known guys that are 4s and 5s that scoop up girls like nothing. If you were to ask these girls why they are banged these guys, they would say “I don’t know, they was just something about that guy”. This is game. These guys could sell water to a whale. These guys could walk out of burning building, have their skin melting off their face and pick up two super models on the way to the hospital.

[@ladistar]

Lmao cope. Just cope. There’s literally 7 or 8 ways you can easily explain these outliers which still thoroughly support the black pill. The biggest reason off the top of my head is that men have an awful ability to rate other men and women alike. Like, dreadfully bad. Assuming this is true, your friends are realistically more like 6 or 7 out of 10, which is good enough to get by with game. Also, I assure you they are not picking up supermodel level women. Not even close. The girls are more than likely looksmatched with the guys, or maybe 1 or 2 points higher at most. This is certainly feasible if the guy is sufficiently attractive and has other advantages such as money, social status, sheer luck, etc. I can go on with multiple other reasons, but I assure you, it has NOTHING to do with their “game”. Game and personality only come into play AFTER you have hit a minimum looks threshold. A legitimate 4 male will NEVER get a 8+ Stacey to fuck him outside of significant money or status.

[@AluahSnackbar]

Face is one of the very very few black guys I like.

[@karlauto7023]

Alex you should do a daygame infield and make yourself less attractive to say a 4. Screw up your beard, add some fake pimples, put on a wig or shave your head, or whatever. And then show you can still get girls.

[@Lo-to7zh]

Yes good idea! But he will never do that ! Even with his current look that would be difficult to get girl over 7/10 lol

[@athulfgeirsson]

my man said "epi-tome"

[@rainbow20112011]

FACEandLMS won this debate.

[@Moroccanpaul]

Face forgot the betabux Theorie on this debate 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@daysgoneby3527]

No little curry is getting what decent guys can't. 90% of guys can't even get matches. Damn liar

[@ralphfraz]

Guys who subscribe to dating coach stuff are among the most gullible on this planet

[@salvature]

Women will not cheat to a dude that is solid, no matter how "pretty" he is. women are far interested to character. You still can do a lot lowering your body fat to single digit. And thats on your control. Status is superior than looks.

[@serggla924]

Loooool

[@salvature]

@Gym Douche ok anon

[@CamelEnjoyer]

Women will cheat if they want to cheat. Best to focus on things inside your control

[@AlekNovy]

Women are far more interested in character = best joke of the century :D

[@ThePresentation010]

That first statement is the most childish thing I've ever read. How old are you?