How much E85 can a STOCK B58 handle? - Flex Fuel Testing on my 340i

[@AndyMac508]

your videos have helped me massively. You're like the "let me do all the work and share it so you don't have to" guy and I love it. Subbed.

[@thegrimmer]

Super excited about this new project car and the testing you're doing on it. Just finished warranty on a gen1 B58 and did not expect you to start your journey over again to directly demonstrate my fueling upgrade path in advance. Huge thanks and keep it safe down there in Mexico; things have been pretty hairy recently

[@franciscopagan6402]

Thank you so much for the research, data, and knowledge that you are sharing!!!! Keep it going!!!

[@kern417]

🙏🏾

[@485Runner]

Nicely done Kern! Can't wait to see the e40/e85 stage2 video.

[@blackmax1990]

Watching this video help with the decision to purchase the kit. Now running flex fuel stage 1 with an E30 mix. Nice power bump from stage 1 93.

[@AlmightyBk2]

Stock pump ?

[@blackmax1990]

@@AlmightyBk2 Yep, stock pump. Highest I have run is E34. Ran logs and there were no issues. I try to stay as close to E30 as possible.

[@jamesgunshefskijr7079]

I love this channel thankyou so much for taking the time to give us insight

[@Copedawg_340]

Perfect timing for me! Thanks brother Kern!

[@kern417]

glad to help

[@georges117]

I am running full E85 on my stock 340i with a flexfuel tune from my tuner. It’s been over 18 month and 25.000km. Everything is fine 👍 I have no idea how much whp it gives, maybe like stock power ?

[@kern417]

if it's stage 1, probably around 400whp.

[@xplnded7922]

Are you on the 1st gen b58? if so did you have to upgrade to the tu pump or can the stock pump handle ethanol.

[@georges117]

@@xplnded7922 yes 1st gen and Stock pump

[@simonespeed]

Too much sauce!!!🔥🔥

[@DWNFRC]

*Logging pulls filmed in Mexico

[@KurumaDesigns]

Nice work! Crazy to see a little e can make such a big difference on the dragy run, sucks I can’t run e here in Norway without it being a big hassle having to buy big drums to have at home..

[@kern417]

yeah man. it is like magic.

[@Koorvkungen]

Just fuel up in Sweden?

[@jesusirizarry7346]

Hello brother, can you make a video on how to make Coolant flush B58, of everything on KZbin you are the only one who teaches and educates in detail, I am a fan of your videos and I have a bmw 440i 2018,,

[@OGDDAWG_951]

Love the intro 🤌🏽

[@DrDre001]

Great video

[@willm2624]

When is Kern Raceway open to the public and how much is it for the pass?

[@kern417]

funny enough, it's always open to public. the only cost is forcing yourself to stay awake until 1am when there's no traffic. i mean, competition.

[@willm2624]

@@kern417 🤣 I feel that. Mexico traffic is crazy during the day.

[@kern417]

@@willm2624 🥲

[@yadier713]

Very good video!!!

[@kern417]

thank you

[@javi_335i]

Thanks for the video. I’m looking to get a 340i later this year to add to my garage. I have a e92 N54 with upgraded pure turbos and want to get a 340i to daily.

[@nicknyg3378]

Love the vids, what apps will tell you your ethanol content? You were using mhd im assuming?

[@kern417]

i have an mhd flex fuel kit so i can read content in the mhd app. i added a link to the description where you can get it if interested.

[@Raslin777]

Awesome video 🎉 love you man, I have a b58 540i MHD has only a E30 and E85 for stage one. I do have a stock fuel pump. Does that mean I have to use one of those options nothing in-between? And does these options affect emissions?

[@Raslin777]

Also do you need the MHD flex analyzer for this?

[@kern417]

if you don't have a flex fuel kit then your only options are E30 and E85. if you add a flex fuel kit then you can run any mix you want and the car will automatically adjust.

[@STICKSHFT]

Do you have separate maps for pump gas and e85? Do you have to switch to a 91 or 93 map if you decide to just use regular pump gas with a flex fuel kit? Or can you just fill it with 91/93 and forget it?

[@tristanmayor6302]

Please can you do a video on logs and what to keep an eye on to make sure everything is safe and happy?

[@kern417]

Ive made one but I'll probably make another Updated one this summer

[@EthanFox]

You mentioned that E30 is the fastest and anything higher will be slower. Does that also apply to stage 2 tunes from MHD? Currently running E40 with a TU on a gen 1 and it seems to be noticeably faster than E30, but my butt dyno could be off.

[@kern417]

Their ethanol mix for each respective tune is the fastest map. So e30 for stage 1/stage 2 and e40 for stage 2 hpfp.

[@jmart1153]

I have a TU pump on my 17' 340. I wanted to run the E85 OTS map from MHD just to save headache ( No flex fuel on it). I was wondering that if my E measures E80 - E81 is it ok to run the E85 tune or am I risking anything? Thanks in advance, you've always been my go to for info, like most here.

[@se7en942]

You just gotta use a e85 calculator to measure exactly how much to put on. I have a e40 tune on mine. My car has a 17.2 tank gallon I run almost 7 gallons of e85 an rest 91. U can goggle e85 calculator an it will tell you exactly how much to put.

[@jmart1153]

@se7en942 Yeah, I've been doing that to maximize the power, but right now, the E85 is cheap AF, and sometimes I just wanna pump and go. I saw my 1/4 mile get worse on the E85. I ran 11.5 on E 40, and 11.9 E 85

[@kern417]

Yes it should be fine. Run logs to confirm

[@jmart1153]

@kern417 thanks brother, maybe you can help me read them. I'm still new to it and have been learning from you.

[@kern417]

@@jmart1153 sure. My social media handles and email are in the description. Feel free to reach out

[@itssaint9712]

what flex fuel was that? it was pretty cool how you can see it on ur phone

[@kern417]

MHD. I'll add a link to the description where you can buy it

[@mcflybywire]

I'm running a Dorch Stage 2 HPFP and wanna run full 85 just to avoid mixing but wasn't sure if I could and/or should. Currently running the Stage 2+ MHD e40 map.

[@kern417]

You can.

[@coreman8087]

Did you see any cylinder timing correction during logging?

[@WatchesAndCars]

When will you do the TU HPFP install? I know you mentioned an alternative way to install it that is much easier.

[@kern417]

Soon

[@noposauce1930]

As expected for a stock fuel system. Putting a better flowing pump like a Dorch Stage 2 will have better results on e85 than a blend like e30-e50

[@kern417]

Nope.

[@noposauce1930]

@@kern417 sorry but it’s proven.

[@kern417]

no it's not. literally all the fastest DI only cars are on E40-50. I've made multiple videos discussing the topic. DI only is fastest on an ethanol mix.

[@noposauce1930]

@@kern417 nope

[@kern417]

lmao

[@Y.D.43210]

Another great video! ✌ Since you declared you are going to experiment with Ethanol mixes in the future AND you have MHD on the 340i, I have a topic suggestion for a next video, which interests me personally a lot, and I imagine many others, especially here in Europe or anywhere, where E85 is not accessible and E is generally quite expensive (had to laugh when I saw the price per gallon :D): ➡What E-blend of RON98 would allow us to run the MHD OTS Stage 2 RON102 / Stage 2+ RON102 maps and would that be a safe setup, based on the logs? I am expecting it to be around E20-E25, based on forum inputs and general feeling, but maybe I am off? With prices of >95% E (racefuel / fireplace bioethanol) around 17 USD per gallon (yes - seventeen!)... one would understand why E30 is not a very cheap way to ride. So the bottom-line question is - can lower E-blends (safely) allow use of OTS maps (the RON102 map in particular). I have been meaning to do the experiment myself, but haven't gotten to it yet. It would also be interesting to compare how the RON102 map performs in comparison to the E30 map (dragy).

[@kern417]

if you're going to add ethanol, just run the e30 map. i don't recommend mixing in order to run another pump gas map.

[@Y.D.43210]

@@kern417 I explained why E30 is economically not sustainable. Many people, myself included, use E as octane booster to pump gas. Why should it be ok to use E10 blend to boost octane to say RON98 as the pump fuel isn’t quite there, but not ok to boost further to RON102…?

[@kern417]

@@Y.D.43210 Just because it's not economical for you doesn't mean it makes sense. The same reason you wouldn't run e40-e50 on a pump gas map is why I wouldn't recommend it. If you're already running e20-e25 adding another 5 to 10% should not break the bank. Otherwise just run the tune for the fuel you run.

[@Y.D.43210]

@@kern417 BMW’s stock setup and DME is designed to run up to E25, according to the user manual. AFR should be adjusted automatically for such a blend. Not E40 and not E50. Would be good to hear technical substantiation and ideally - see empirical data why one should not run say E20 on RON 102 map, if the timing corrections suggest sufficient knock resistance of the blend. We all know e.g. E10 to compensate for poor pump fuel octane, on an OTS gasoline map, is great. Why would E20 not be? I know some people are driving this setup. Some claim the performance of the RON102 map is even better than the E30 map. Only one way to find out, isn’t it? Just a suggestion. If you don’t test it, I will, eventually :)

[@kern417]

I don't think you understand the principle in this video. The stock setup can run E85. BMW may only officially support e25 but that's on the stock 10psi tune. How much boost does the 102ron map make? What's the fuel scaling? What are the fuel trims? You are asking for trouble. Trying to go that far. Add 5% more fuel and run e30. Or stick with pump gas.

[@Martin-g4t]

Great video, thank you very much. But a complete different question. How do you combine the csv files so you get 3 overlays?

[@kern417]

I modified the file. I copied the columns i needed into one tab and used that

[@Martin-g4t]

@@kern417 thank you very much. That’s a good idea

[@i_villa7967]

Kern- can you do this again if you install the TU pump? Many people would wanna see different mixes past e50 as we usually target e50 for flex fuel. This is a great comparison video, thank you so much.

[@kern417]

yes

[@BrandonVallas]

Is there a “best” year for the 340i? Seems like most people prefer the 2018, but is there a performance difference between the 2016, 2017, and 2018??

[@kern417]

no performance differences. mostly upgraded features like newer idrive, etc in later models.

[@TheFK8Life]

Ideally e55-e60 ish will see 99% of ethanol power - full e85 isnt worth that last little bit. Getting enough flow to support your given power level on e60 is as good as it gets. Key with any ethanol tune is keeping it to the ideal ethanol target - if its an e30 tune due to fuel limits - dont go over as it just runs lean and the tune will pull boost/timing to compensate. Theres a balance of fuel needed vs octane and while ethanol is higher octane you cant support more power without a given fuel volume. A good hpfp, ported fuel rail, larger injectors, larger fuel lines, larger intank pump/lines/regulator etc ....adding volume helps alot with ethanol and direct injection - not cheap tho 😂

[@kern417]

I can't help but feel like you said all of that without watching the video

[@TheFK8Life]

@kern417 my car runs on Ethanol and is making 280whp per liter on e55 or like a 3L b58 making 850whp on an oem engine direct injection only - no port, no meth. Just sharing basic ethanol data

[@kern417]

@@TheFK8Life yep, you didn't watch.

[@RB3Supreme]

Were you able to see ethanol content without any additional mods? I’m running MHD stg2 e30 and i can’t read my ethanol content in MHD, just says 0

[@kern417]

get a flex fuel kit.

[@TheOverberk]

Hey Kern, thanks for video! It's very helpfull. If I understand correctly, I can without any issues fill my car with E30 fuel on Stage2 MHD with turned on E30 map? We don't good E85 here , but I have ethanol and 98 Octane gas.

[@kern417]

yes, you can run their e30 or e85 map. if you run the e85 map, you should add some gas because the bioethanol is around e98.

[@N55Koby]

can you test the limits of the tu pump. e30 e40 and e50?

[@kern417]

yes

[@ir655]

I might have missed this, but were you running stock TCU tune or xhp mapped TCU? For my G30 i dont think there is a line pressure bump option?

[@kern417]

i actually have a custom tune. will talk about that more in a future video but it doesn't affect flex fuel operation. you shouldn't need line pressure bump.

[@ir655]

@kern417 thanks Kern, loving the videos, been going through your vids as a new B58 owner 😍

[@kern417]

@@ir655 🙏🏾 more coming soon

[@sergiobetanzos1514]

Hey kern great video man! I have one question though. I’m installing mhd flex kit so i’m going to be running stage 2+ but as you know the only option is 93 at minimum but i’m in cali and highest is 91 along with e85. I’ve seen all of your videos regarding this topic but it’s been more than 6 months ago and I wanted to see if things have changed or improved for us living in cali. If i choose 93 bc i know you have to choose pump gas option then the flex fuel will adjust the tune for the e once it’s in but will something mess up if i do that? I’m thinking to go to the e85 station first, filling up, then applying the flex fuel tune and choosing 93 since I will already have at least 93 in the car. I just don’t want to pay right now for another custom tune

[@kern417]

for e40-e85 i think it's fine. but if you plan on running 91 then i'd flash the standard 91oct map. don't run a 93 tune with 91 in the tank.

[@i_villa7967]

Bm3 just switched the minimum octane to 91 on the flex fuel map, maybe MHD will follow.

[@kern417]

They really should. That's my biggest gripe with mhd that they dont have a 91 octane option to flash for stage 2 hpfp

[@Peter-dn9dp]

@@kern417 how much whp would you expect for stock car with 93 stage 2 hpfp

[@kern417]

If your car is stock you can't run stage 2 hpfp

[@Tachyon836]

So lets say I run e25 on MHD stage 2 e30 tune. Is that safe?

[@isaiah-qh6yr]

If i am catless dp and tu fuel pump can i run stage 2 full e85 with no problems?

[@needforspeedtee7733]

So are you telling me i can add e85 in my gen 1 b58 ? I have the mhd stage 2 and xhp transmission tune.

[@kern417]

sure. just flash the appropriate max for what you're running.

[@michaelolsen351]

When you enabled flex fuel you put 93 octane as your base map ?

[@kern417]

All 4 slots yes

[@B58_jr]

So your e30 and e85 blend was on a stock hpfp?

[@kern417]

Yes.

[@itsHydrahh]

Does MHD have an ots flex fuel map for b58 or does it have to be custom? If they have ots, how do you select it?

[@kern417]

It is the multimap tune

[@MrErball]

Does MHD have set provisions for stage 1 flex + TU pump?

[@kern417]

Doesn't need anything special. You can run the TU pump with any OTS map

[@zave4992]

Just installed the MHD flex fuel analyzer on my 440i. Is there any way i can accurately assess how many hp im putting out with the MHD monitor license?

[@kern417]

Not really. Best bet is to get on a dyno

[@SpYFoXZeRo]

Can we see what times you would do with stage 2(93/e30/e85) and stage 2+hpfp(93/e30/e85)?

[@kern417]

Yes

[@Raymond-xb5me]

I have a 16 340xi with downpipe no tune just mppsk could I run E? And if I can what mixture

[@kern417]

no use without a tune.

[@Melendez_Ent]

So gen 1 b58 you can just tune with MHD on E85 stock fuel pump?

[@kern417]

Yes

[@remingtonfrank9278]

So full e85 wouldn’t be corrosive tho?

[@kern417]

It is more corrosive but our fuel system can handle it. Even gasoline is corrosive.

[@starbai410]

Saw one of those new 760i today. Although not the best looking car, it moves.

[@kern417]

yeah the new twin turbo v8s will be monsters.

[@JDVmiami]

How do I know which B58 its mine?? I drive a 2019 440i

[@kern417]

Gen 1.

[@sae.f30]

So your telling me I can run let’s say E80 14.93 gallons of E85 and 1 gallon of 93 on a stage 2 Mhd e85 ots tune and the car would be fine without port injection and a TU pump ?? And the car will be just fine ??

[@kern417]

Did you watch the video?

[@sae.f30]

@@kern417 your running e65 u added 11 gallons of e85 and had about 4 gallons of pump gas left in the tank that’s y it was e65 but I’m talking about running e80

[@sae.f30]

@@kern417 can the car run on e80 on stock fuel system along with gen 1 hpfp and direct injection

[@kern417]

@@sae.f30 watch the video again. I explained how it works.

[@hasan_440i]

“Stock turbo Take a long time to hit 130” damn this hurts me

[@kern417]

lol to be fair it's mostly the stage 1 tune. fuel pump and ethanol should get me an extra 100hp

[@hasan_440i]

@@kern417 yeah made a crazy difference much respect for the video already liked it waiting on stage 2 review

[@Oscar-ud1fw]

could this work on a jb4 tune for locked ecus?

[@kern417]

No

[@yourstruly2460]

How much hp would a stage 2 on e30 make?

[@kern417]

420-440

[@sergiobetanzos1514]

@@kern417stage 2+ with e40 and TU would be like 460-480?

[@kern417]

Yes. Some people have even seen 500

[@JXiong-zo8ig]

I have a 2020 bmw m340i can i put couple gallons of E85 in my car? HELP LOL

[@kern417]

if you get tuned for it sure

[@bmwsincekid]

100-200 10.x seconds? For G30 stage 2 takes 8.9-9.2 sec on pump gas premium

[@kern417]

Watch again. You're missing one detail.

[@bmwsincekid]

@@kern417 i don’t have time Working bro , but okay i will watch again thx

[@bmwsincekid]

@@kern417 i see STOCK 😘

[@kern417]

60-130 not 100-200 😬

[@bmwsincekid]

@@kern417 well that The American Way to calculate which leads inaccurate numbers it should be in Metric as thats accurate ..

[@deivisson2598]

Are in brazil not f30 340i. F30 335i

[@deivisson2598]

316i e 320i que acho não ter nos EUA

[@carlsagan3065]

One thing that seems a little uncertain is e30 on stage 2 with the stock pump. Not stage 2+. Would it make the targeted boost and timing for stage 2, Or is it just not worth it.

[@kern417]

What is uncertain. Like I showed Any setup can be tuned safely.

[@carlsagan3065]

@kern417 I was just planning on adding a gallon or 2 for timing and not tuned for power while just running the normal stage 2 93 tune. I did that with stage 1 but was curios if the stage 2 boost targets were too high and the pump bot being able to flow what needed with that little ethonal in the tank.

[@kern417]

do what i did in the video. run a log and see. it's not designed for ethanol so no one can guarantee that.

[@2CAINEF3X]

So the stock pump handle E50 in the tank with stage 2 E30 OTS? No MHD flex fuel kit at the moment

[@kern417]

no