How Much Money Can I Save With A Variable Speed Pool Pump?

[@marcoPerez-wz5zx]

That pump was the stupidest idea they invented.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

UPDATE: I have a great new article that attempts to walk you through a real world service run schedule for a variable speed pump. www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/go-vs.html I then compare the costs of this run schedule versus the most popular single speed pump on the market running at 24 hours daily, 12 hours daily, 8 hours daily, and 6 hours daily. I then substitute actual values for electrical costs from major cities around the USA and Canada to show you, with 100% accuracy, how much you will save if you "pay more" for a variable speed pump today versus a less expensive single speed pump. In short, minimum savings after ONLY a five year service cycle is $1206, and the maximum is $9630. The people arguing against variable speed pumps must not be doing these calculations because that is as black and white as it comes. "I just turn my pump off part of the day" simply means you are spending between $1206 to $9630 more than you need to every five years. The pump only costs about $600 more on average than a single speed replacement. $600 to save up to $9630 every five years sounds like pretty good deal to me.

[@timezonewall]

Zeric E 1 second ago I don't disagree that a variable pump is less expensive to operate in general. However, you say someone will see a *minimum* electricity savings of $1206 in 5 years, I don't spend that much in *total* for 5 years of pool pump electricity (1.5hp). Every situation is different, here is mine... My single speed 1.5hp pump costs 10.9 cents/hour to run during off peak hours when I run it. That is not a theoretical calculation based on HP, it is an actual *measurement* by the utility installed electrical meter. I run the pump on average 5 hours a day, more in summer, less in winter (as is typical in my area of the SW USA) so the cost per year is about $199 USD or $16.60/month. I did the calculation for a variable speed pump running 7/24 using your assumptions in the analysis, 2 hour full speed per day, 10 half speed, 12 hours quarter speed, with my local electricity rates for various hours (full speed running during the lowest cost hours). It came out to about $10.3/month, so an electricity savings of around $76/year or $380 over 5 years, *much* less than the $1206 you calculated as a minimum for 5 years savings. Your calculations assume "average" electricity costs which gives inaccurate results for people with variable electricity rates. My "average" annual electricity cost is $0.547/KWh, but the lowest tier is $0.0523/KWh, a full order of magnitude difference. The cost varies by hour of the day, day of the week, holidays, and by month of the year so performing calculations is rather complicated and trying to use averages just doesn't work...at...all. Back to my situation...if I only needed to run the VS pump (or a two speed) for 12hours/day (2 hours high speed, 10 hours half speed) , that brings down the electricity usage to only $5.17/month as I can run it exclusively during the lowest price tier. That's about $138/year in cost savings, or a $690 saving in 5 years. Now let's look at the equipment cost. When I last changed out my single speed motor (after 11 years), it cost me about $175 for a rebuilt motor (I did the labor myself). To move to VS, would require changing out the entire pump, timer/controller, and some replumbing. Even if doing it myself, this would be in excess of $1000. I would never recoup the cost of a new VS pump running 7/24 compared to just replacing the single speed motor running 5 hours/day. Running the VS pump at just 12hours/day, I might come out ahead a little with VS over the 7 year life of the pump (if I install it myself). If someone else does the install, then forget it, VS is always more expensive in my situation. If I installed a two speed motor on my existing pump (doing my own labor), I would come out ahead in about 3-4 years if I only run it 12hours/day. This is due to only needing to change the motor and the controler, not the entire pump (with plumbing) as required by the VS route. If running 7/24, then it wouldn't make any sense. If one were purchasing all new equipment anyway, such as for a new pool, then yes the variable speed pump absolutely makes sense. In a commercial pool where the pump is on 7/24 as required by law here, the savings no doubt would be drastic for a VS compared to a single speed and worth replacing an existing single speed. Residential requires a detailed analysis in every situation, there are just too many variables that can drastically change the results.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Thank you for your detailed reply and breakdown of your cost analysis. I think this will be very helpful to other people who are reading and watching and who have a similar situation as yours. There are a few things going on here, but the first and most obvious thing I see is that you do not filter your water enough. At only 5hr per day you are comparing the electrical savings of a new VS pump running 24/7 versus a severely reduced running schedule that you have already adapted to be as cost saving as possible - hardly running your pump at all, only only when it is absolutely cheapest...and still the VS pump saves you money. Imagine how much it will save the average pool owner who runs their pump much more than you do! The pool market is drastically different based on geographic location. Where you are, running a pump 5hr a day is a good solution that you needed a long time ago because you pay for your pump year round. Most areas of USA and Canada are not like this. Most only pump water 6 months per year and do not take steps like you have to reduce filtration to the absolute least electrical demands. Still, your points are valid, and most especially for people who are in places like yours, with a dynamic tiered price system for electricity use around the clock. When you start to talk about the two speed pump, again the points are are valid, but the glaring omission in this logic is that we are not looking at flow rates. We are only looking at run times and motor RPM's and I feel that once we start to factor in how much water is being filtered in each condition I feel the VS pump, again, will prove the most cost effective due to the versatility in RPM control. If having the ability to control RPM by half is so helpful, then no doubt full rheostatic control is more useful for dialing savings vs flow rates and run times. Next, VS pumps are TEFC motors, and less prone to damage from dust and water. They are outlasting air cooled motors in the field, and are a more efficient design out of the box dollar for dollar than single speed, and dual speed pump designs. Again, thank you for your feedback. I think people will find this very helpful and you have raised some important points that people shopping for a new pump should consider.

[@timezonewall]

Thanks for the response. I run the pump 5 hours on average over the course of year. In your case you run the pump on "average" 12 hours a day over the course of the year from an electricity perspective, 6 months on, 6 months off. You said most areas of the USA and Canada do not run their pools year round, this is only true geographically because most people who have pools live in the warmer climates. Take a look at pools per capita - Minnesota 1 pool for every 102,271 people; Arizona 1 pool for every 8,628 people (2014 portch.com data). My own observations agree with this, I grew up in a northern state and home pools were rare. Growing up, I only met one person who had an in ground home pool and less than 5% people had an above ground pool. In my current middle class neighborhood, in-ground pool ownership is greater than *50%*. Consider that the youtube audience of pool owners is more likely to be in warmer climates (although I read above ground pool ownership in Quebec is common). In my area, other pool owners run their pump about the same as I do, it's not unusual or considered a "severely reduced running schedule", it is the norm for the area. This is also true for home pools that are professionally maintained by pool companies, they also run pumps a few hours a day. I've never met someone here that runs their home pool 24hrs/day, even in the summer. The most I've heard of is 8h/day unless there is some special circumstance such as after a complete water exchange (which I do about every 3 years). Many people here have what other areas may consider oversized pumps and filter systems (I have a 1.5HP pump on a 10,000G pool). During swimming season the pump runs about 6 hours, 3-4h in the off season. Geographically, some areas have higher air borne organic particulate matter such as pollen or leaves that requires more filtration. Where I am, our main concern is just dust. Filtration and chemical sanitation needs vary considerably between swimming and non swimming seasons here. No matter where one has a pool, one should filter only as much as needed, anything more is just a waste of electricity and wear on the equipment. It's hard for someone in a one situation to second guess the amount of filtration and sanitation required of an outdoor pool living in a completely different environment with potentially differently sized equipment. I updated my first post before I saw your reply to fix some numbers and include other thoughts. I'm not arguing that VS isn't more efficient, of course it is, and makes a lot of sense if you are going to be replacing the entire pump anyway or building a new pool, but in some situations the cost of replacing an existing working single speed pump with a VS pump may out weight the electricity savings. Each situation needs careful individual analysis, averages while interesting, are not conclusive.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

I live in Ontario Canada and in my area around 50% of all houses have inground pools. Plus above ground pools in addition to these numbers. There are lots of pools in places that have colder climates than Florida. The average pool here runs their pump either 12 hours daily, or 24 hours daily. Very, very few circulate less than this. Based on your description you are perhaps filtering the volume of your pool 1 time per day, which equates to a very reduced filtering schedule. not by my standard, but by the accepted industry standard for water filtration. So at 1 turnover daily you are filtering 1/3 as much as is recommended for any swimming pool. Just because your neighbors also do this does not make it correct, or good for your pool. It represents the absolute minimum filtration in order to keep the water look clear. You will use more chemicals than a pool that is filtered more, but perhaps you don't care about chemical efficiency as you have not mentioned this anywhere in your comments. I certainly think that you have made your point that a VS pump does not provide the same savings for every person and every situation. In your unique situation with a year round climate, a severely reduced filtration schedule, and a tiered electrical rate, you will experience minimal savings. Lets redo all of these calculations using the accepted industry standards of 3x the pool volume through the filter every 24 hours and your savings will more than be tripled by your example. I could say that I save hardly anything because I only run my pump for five minutes every day. By comparison, a VS pump costs a lot more...but this is not a fair comparison is it? As an industry expert, this is an exaggerated example, but ultimately how I view your situation. You are choosing to not filter your pool enough and then using this as the basis for saying that a VS pump will not provide a good return. Still, don't misconstrue my disagrement with you - I appreciate that you are taking the time to share this information, and I am certain that there are people who will be in agreement with your assessment of the situation. Cheers

[@greghackney8437]

Data? Draws the same power at any speed. So how does this save?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

It definitely does not draw the same power at any speed. That is the whole point with a variable speed pump. For every drop of RPM by half there is an 8x reduction in power. Here is a page with more data for you to see www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/compare-savings.html

[@greghackney8437]

I've seen it proven many times. It actually drew more at half speed. The soft start is a nice feature, however. A lot of them are forcing pre programs where you can choose your speed but it reverts back to insufficient speed when you walk away

[@tammyoriley1567]

What variable speed pump made by Pentair would you recommend for today and also saltwater pool

[@stevecoleman8114]

Don't forget to calculate cost of VFD driven pump motor and the the replacement cost for same....because it will crap out, we see many come into our shop that fail, motor and pump are fine, but drive failed...calculate that and you will see how cost effective it is not. Ran my pool just enough to turn water twice a day through filter using a CT1072 older AO Smith motor with a run cap...low amp draw, clean water....job done

[@drdrew3]

Because you run a shop you see only the motors in need of repair and not the many more pumps out there running properly for years. Your experience is clouded by selection bias and not a good reflection of the long and efficient service life of variable speed pumps. The single speed pumps run loud and hot and burn electricity like crazy until they die. I’ve owned several of both types and will no longer spend money on a wasteful SS pump

[@randallhoover7688]

Thank you. Bought one. Pool Company installed today. Feeling good! If anything, my neighbors asked if I sold my jet airplane. Quieter. SAVING are good too

[@eugenejregan4775]

😆lol.. Jet Airplane

[@eugenejregan4775]

🌺I live in Florida 🌺 Spread Pump times out ✨Run Pump 7-11am (4hr) ✨Run Pump 5-6pm (1hr) ✨Run Pump 12-1am (1hr) This will even out Chlorine Distribution throughout the Day 😎

[@Gilbertory]

My problem is pulling a 220v line from my breaker, go under my concrete patio, go into my garage (where my filter and pump sits) and install the 220v outlet.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Use the Superflo VS with 120/240v compatibility. Here is a bench test showing flow rates and power consumption when in low voltage 115v mode kzbin.info/www/bejne/lX_VY617ltCbibs

[@Gilbertory]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve can I use my existing 120v wires to pull 220v for conversion?

[@Davidcolemanfl]

My pool came with 120v two speed motor but you have to manually switch the speed but I always run it on high. I live in Lakeland Florida and I only run it about 6 to 8 hours a day in the middle of the summer. I have 240 at the pool so I’m just going to replace the motor probably this winter to a 240 V motor which would cut down my current consumption by at least a third (don’t quote me on that but it is considerable I don’t have the chart in front of me).So if you have 120 V motor upgrade to a 240 V you’ll save quite a bit without having to spend $1000. Of course if you have 240 V at your pool pump.

[@DaveOonUTube]

Steve is absolutely right. When it comes to motors, the mechanical loses decrease in proportion to the cube of the frequency. Said another way, lower the frequency and you lower your mechanical losses by 3X. Increase your frequency and you increase your speed and you increase the mechanical losses in the shaft and bearings. Thus, you have to pump a lot more energy in by ratio for just a little more speed. I have a 20K gallon swimming pool running a 1hp, 240VAC, single phase motor 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. It costs me about $75/month. I have a separate koi pond running a 3hp, 3-phase, 208VAC motor dialed down to about 38Hz (about 1hp equivalency), 24 hours/day, 7 days a week. I have a variable frequency device (known as a VFD in the trade) that converts my home 240VAC to the 3-phase, 208VAC needed to run my 3 phase koi pond pump. I save approximately $50/month to run my koi 24 hours/day and to push the same 4000 gallons/hour as my swimming pool pump. I've had my 3-phase motor/VFD in place now for 10 years, so I've saved about $4000 over that same time. The 3-phase pump cost you about $100 more than a single phase pump and the inverter is about $300. So I takes me about 1 year running my koi pond to pay for itself. I'm converting my single phase motor for the pool asap. And by the way, if you have bead filters for your koi pond, or DE filters for your swimming pool, it's nice to have the extra hp available during a backwash. Thanks for passing the word, Steve.

[@Jaymann420]

I’m confused, why on earth would anyone ever run their pool pump 24 hours a day. I’ve run mine 8 hours a day for nearly 20 years and all is perfect. I was thinking about a variable speed pump to save some money

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Here is a breakdown of a VS pump running 24/7 that costs less to operate than a single speed pump running 8 hours per day. Also in addition to costing less to run it also moves more water than the single speed pump. More filtered water for less money than you spend now running 8 hours per day. www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/8-hours.html

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

Who runs their pump 24/7??? Hell, I live in Florida and my pool is open year round. I run my pump max. 6 hours per day with a salt generator and a 1 HP Hayward. In the winter I bring it down to 3-4 hours per day... Chemicals are always good and tested by Pinch a Penny regularly..

[@timezonewall]

No home pools are run 7/24 in the western USA either, only commercial pools are run 7/24 as required by law in most municipalities. Depending on season of the year, 3-6 hour per day is typical for a home pool.

[@eugenejregan4775]

🌺I live in Orlando, Florida 🌺 -Spread Pump times out- ✨Run Pump 7-11am (4hr) ✨Run Pump 5-6pm (1hr) ✨Run Pump 12-1am (1hr) This will even out Chlorine Distribution throughout the Day 😎 🎀Tip: Get Extra Timer Needles from Hardware or Pool Store

[@smille5291]

basically exactly what I do with chlorine 6hrs summer 3-4 hrs winter never any problems with water.

[@kaisercastiel9703]

I realize it's quite off topic but do anyone know of a good place to stream new series online ?

[@rickyrowan9789]

@Kaiser Castiel Flixportal :P

[@AndrewPumariega]

Oh and by the way, over here in Florida the vast majority of pools are on timers. Typically from 9am - 5pm.

[@eugenejregan4775]

🌺I live in Orlando, Florida 🌺 *Spread Pump times out ✨Run Pump 7-11am (4hr) ✨Run Pump 5-6pm (1hr) ✨Run Pump 12-1am (1hr) This will even out Chlorine Distribution throughout the Day 😎 🎀Tip: Get Extra Timer Needles from Hardware or Pool Store

[@awc723]

@@eugenejregan4775 ur a dick

[@drdrew3]

The variable speed pumps also have timers but they also have the advantage of being able to vary the motor speed as well.

[@famcontreras93]

Thx you for all the info... In your opinion...is vs for me... 15' x 30' 3 5 3 depths DE Filter & Side Suction Vacuum

[@Kentotski]

Hi I need help. What is the difference in electrical consumption between regular pool pump versus inverter pool pump?

[@smille5291]

I have a 1 hp single speed pump rpms are 3450 (I think) I run it 6 hrs a day in Florida. Pool is chlorine 15x22 avg 4' deep the power used is right around $30/month ( i have metered the kilowatts used during the 6 hours of use) water always looks good according to my calculations I am overturning the water twice with a 1hp pump /10K gallons pool. Not sure if I bought a $600-$800 pump if I would ever see a return on my money. I guess the water might be better filtered ? Any thoughts?

[@TheDarinseng]

It is possible you could see an improvement chemical usage by running for a longer duration but at a lower speed by simply not allowing the water to become stagnant for a long duration. Pump build quality and thus longevity should also be considered in over all costs. One HUGE factor is how much more quiet a VS pump runs when it is humming along at 900-1200 RPM, though not silent you have to listen for it to even hear it. The several single speed pumps I have had in the past were all far too loud for my liking. In Florida it may not be much of an issue but if your one of us folks that need a pool heater, running the heater may not always be timed with your cleaning cycles. During heating times like this, the savings also kick in as you can run the pump at the minimum required flow rate that your heater requires and literally optimize costs savings with no effect on how fast the pool heats up or maintains its heat.

[@shanewagnon2807]

Darin Seng up

[@shanewagnon2807]

Darin Seng year y

[@Shino2600]

I am in the same situation, 12,000 gallon pool on .75hp in south Florida ... does shelling out almost $800 make sense on variable? I also have a 1250 cartridge filter which I was told is oversized for my pool

[@smille5291]

@@Shino2600 it's not, my buddy has one we compared I paid $150 for a motor he paid $800 I run mine 6 hrs he 24/7 same size pools $5 month difference it would take 13 years to get the $750 back. He was like so I am saving money !! I told him that thing isn't going to last 13 years running 24/7 in Florida and if it did it wouldn't be as efficient anymore anyways bearings would be crap.

[@AndrewPumariega]

The upfront cost of the pump and the repairs down the line are outrageous as well. I just replaced a drive on an intelliflo and it was just short of $1,000.

[@chiggedycheckyoself]

24/7??? Who on earth does that?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

The people with the best water quality. One of the best advantages of new variable speed pumps is that you no longer need to run your pump on the absolute bare minimum that stops your water from being a swamp.

[@CP-ov3ir]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve I'm sorry. The water quality differences are not significant. No one needs to run 24-7 in a residential pool. I have a salt water pool in Texas, 12K gallons and my Cl, etc levels all stay stable with me running 3-4 hours a night. My Pentair 1.5 HP pump lasted 17 years and only finally died because of my error. Otherwise, it would still be running.

[@greghackney8437]

Dang near everyone.

[@AndrewPumariega]

Comparing a variable speed pump at its lowest speed to a regular pump at full speed is not an apples to apples comparison. Run both the variable speed pump and the regular pump at the exact same rpm for the exact same duration and then tell me how much more energy efficient the variable speed pump is. Hey Steve, I'll sell you an "energy efficient" air conditioning unit, you just cant set it below 80 degrees.

[@marcdee5229]

you are an asshole

[@drdrew3]

Your comparison of central air conditioning units versus pool pumps is not “apples to apples” either. LOL

[@funlovingJohn]

I do not see any difference in my electric bill using my new 3HP Pentair variable pool pump over my old Hayward 3HP super 11. I have a kreepy krauly pool cleaner made also by Pentair and it takes full 3450RPM to for the Pentair pool cleaner to work properly. When I called Pentair they told me that they recommend 3450RPM for their Pentair Kreepy Krauly to work as it should. I also notice that the Pentair at 3450RPM is a little noisier then my old 3HP pump, also my old pump primed a lot easier after cleaning the filter.

[@drdrew3]

My Kreepy Krawley runs great at just 2700rpm. You probably just need to adjust the valves between the skimmer and vacuum and find the right setting - it’s a one time adjustment

[@greghackney8437]

And that is not true.

[@dougs.9486]

Such BS! No one runs their pumps 24/7!

[@wowskaters]

hi for a pool with spa how many pumps I need

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

This depends on how the plumbing is configured. You can run a pool and spa combo on one pump, but more commonly you would have a circulation pump that runs both the pool and hot tub filtration as well as a second pump that is a booster pump just for the hot tub jets.

[@wowskaters]

ok thanks

[@alexandertheone311]

Hello. Thanks for the video. I have started to read and ask around about difference between normal pumps and variable speed and I think you provided one of the best explanations. Do you think there is any reasonable benefit in investing a bit more and getting an Intelliflo XF instead of the regular IntelliFlo? Also do you think it is best to use a pressure cleaner or an electric robot cleaner? You mentioned salt water, how does that work? Thanks I'm new to pool so learning my way to victory.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Quick reply - XF pump for the average pool owner not worth the extra money. Just slow down the motor RPM and save money...this is what the average pool owner should do. Unless you have a very demanding system with very specific flow requirements that MUST be met, then the VS pump will get you savings with slightly less control over your precise flow rates, but just as much savings on power consumption. For cleaners for sure the robotic are where it is at. Keep the extra wear and tear on your circulation system to a minimum. For more information about salt water start with this article and by the time you get to the end you will know more real world stuff about pool salt chlorine than the average pool guy that drives by your house: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/is-salt-bad.html

[@councilglasses]

Bollocks