Single Speed Vs. Variable Speed Cost Comparison

[@angelorusso3219]

My single speed pool pump just went out after 7 years. I was doing research on whether VS is worth it. I kind of heard it was. Thanks for the numbers. Just remember to include the cost difference between single and VS pumps and remove that from the savings. SS pumps are $300-$700. VS speed pumps are $1,000-$2000. There are some like the B&D VS going for $750-$900. Still end up saving $$ going with VS as long as running the pump 24/7/365 doesn't kill the VS pump faster and you shorten that 84 month avg ownership. I have solar and lowering my daily kWh usage is always a good thing. I did the same calculations with a standard vs hybrid water heater. The initial up front cost of the unit always scares people away, but the savings over 10-20 years is phenomenal!

[@billyc3757]

Best video on savings for variable speed pump I've seen. Great information and very easy to understand the logic. Thank you! I've got some reprogramming to do. :-)

[@AndyTanguay]

This is insanely useful and informative. Thank you and your whiteboard. Probably can save even more by doing the higher RPM stuff at night when our cost per kWh is cheaper.

[@victorsr6708]

Bravo!!!! I’m an air conditioning tech and can tell you the same applies to inverter (VFD) heat pumps.

[@cliffvictoria3863]

Great info! Thanks Steve. I am in the process of repairing my home after hurricane Ian and my pump was one of the damaged items. Replacing it with a VS and a salt water system. Love the idea that I will be saving some money.

[@jamesbannerman4804]

Excellent explanation on the differences. I'm convinced I need a variable speed pump.

[@thiago713]

This was amazing! I wanna rebuild this on a spreadsheet and share it with the world! Thanks for making this video!!!

[@jkelley199]

Excellent information, thanks Steve!

[@jkelley199]

@Kelvin Sage How is that a trick? And how is that relevant to this video?

[@Martinko_Pcik]

Nice experiment and clear presentation !

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Thank you

[@lrc87290]

Justification becomes harder for an outdoor pool in the Northeast that only run 4 months out of the year. Someone else made a video saying VS pumps weren't worth the added cost because they cost so much to fix if the electronics fail and the often fail prematurely.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

You still save the money, just slower over a longer period. But the amount saved remains the same. Here is an article where I talk about variable speed pump savings on seasonal pools: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/seasonal-pool.html

[@RadioRich100]

Your right there not worth it even if they were not so vulnerable, but they are. When the stupid ass battery in the computer goes bad you cant replace it and have to dump the whole rig. There must be politicians behind this as there are trying to get people to switch to them - Dont. My SS pump lasted more than 5 full years and I replace the motor for $197.00 from Amazon.

[@syoung3868]

Thanh you for all your hard work in this very educational Video 🙃

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Thank you for watching and commenting!

[@permenck2062]

Extremely interesting - thanks a million for sharing !

[@ChlorineKingPoolService]

Great video! Solid proof how awesome variable speed pumps are!

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Agreed!

[@chrismartin5866]

#1 run your variable speed pump on higher speeds during the night you will save more money per kilowatt hour..#2 check with your power company to see if they offer a rebate on variable speed pool pumps..I have Ameren power and got a 275.00 rebate for using one..just a couple of more ways to save folks..

[@lrakwons9799]

Thanks you so much. Getting into a new business with my friend and having this information makes me Feel a lot more professional. Thanks so much for sharing

[@StilljustaRatinaCage]

I plan to do the higher RPMs during the day when my solar panels are compensating for the AC and the pool pump. Also, down here in Texas, there is the occasional freeze if you live near the gulf and being able to run it 24 hours without being bankrupted in the process is just a good thing.

[@davidmosk8922]

I think there is a lot of other things you didn't take into consideration. Such as the temp of pool water which has a direct impact on pump flow, the swim load and the system pressure. I agree there is a huge cost savings with a variable speed pump but I don't think 3x the water volume per day is required in many or any normal home use pool. In Florida you run a pump year round and can go months without any swimmers and in the summer inches of rain a day for weeks if not months. Just saying it is not a cut and dry calculation on how many hours per day you should run your pump and filtering system.

[@mike_saw_7563]

I'm getting that same pump and a 200sf filter for my 10000 gallon pool. I cannot wait to see the savings and also how low I will be able to run the pump. I plan on adding a FloVis to really dial it in. Thanks for all your informative videos!

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Good luck with your new setup!

[@mpnewhart8022]

Did you see the savings? I was thinking of getting a vs but started seeing videos of People claiming the vs pumps are not moving the water well enough to keep water clear.

[@mike_saw_7563]

@@mpnewhart8022 I had the pool installed late last fall and only ws able to use it for about a month. I had the pump running 24/7 and plan on doing the same when in re-install the equipment. Since I live in northern Illinois I store all my equipment inside during the winter.

[@f0xixtaiail2000]

Very good info and great presentation!

[@rizano7066]

I may be wrong about this, but I would think in addition to the cost savings, it is better for the pool to have 24x7 water movement as opposed to 12 hours of water that is stagnant.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

1000% yes - moving water is always better. People have traditionally turned off their pump to save money on electricity, but there is no doubt that this is at the expense of the quality of the water, not for the benefit of it. VS pumps - best of both worlds, cheaper and no stagnant water. It KILLS me when I hear people arguing that they are not worth the money. There is no logical well founded argument against VS pumps.

[@x65535x]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Don't forget a good 3 phase variable speed pump should be a bit more efficient than a single phase pump. The speed controller and motor on a variable speed should also last longer than a single phase pump.

[@fredrmitchell]

Switched from sp pump to vs. Water quality improved

[@mlangfordoutdoor]

This was informative thank you new subscriber, I have to replace my single speed pump on an 18,000 in ground pool so looking for something like this

[@jbkulakowski]

Awesome analysis…thank you!

[@wittttttt]

Will the lifetime be the same for both? One is running 10hr/day and the other is running 24hr/day non-stop. Running an engine non-stop for 7 years seems like a lot, but I'm not an expert

[@sethm5681]

It's water cooled and definitely can exceed that lifetime it's definitely worth it i still have half of the ones I oversee that my company installed back in 2012. I would recommend pentair if one decided to go that route and you don't need to run them all day you could run a standard pool of 10k gallons around 2350 for 7-10hrs and be OK and less in the winter

[@lslaflamme3166]

Hi Steve, you have nice measurement equipment! Often, pool volume is estimated (not easy). 1,5in pipes is also common (pipes under ground). You mentioned also pump affinity law, and it is really great. It can be interesting also to find the best efficiency point (BEP) of the pump and talk about power factor (PF). I just bought a Pentair VFD and I will check for pressure and flow meter.Thanks!

[@mchaelhron279]

Awesome , technical video. You are a great teacher. Thanks.

[@christianmontenegroaraya1888]

Excellent video with a detailed information!

[@hinzylifestyle]

Steve, great video. I have a question: what is your time settings for this set up for 1, 2, and 3? I'm new to VS pumps and bought a Pentair 1.5hp yesterday.

[@johnflannery4815]

Great information, I had no idea this was possible

[@davideberhart9523]

WoW! Glad I'm going with the VS 3HP. Just need to get out of the old paradigm of turning off the pump for 12 hours a day.

[@davemclachlan7614]

I would like some numbers when using pool heat. There is a flow switch on the heater that will shut the heater down when flow is not adequate.......but what is the optimum flow for the heater to work efficiently? I aim for a flow of 40 gpm to allow the thermostatically controlled pool heater to have sufficient flow to operate. I am running the pump for 16 hours at 2300 rpm. I can't "time" when the heater is to come on as it runs via temperature control. What I plan on doing is to use a 2 inch irrigation NC solenoid valve (energized by the pool heater contactor via low voltage relay) to close the heater bypass valve automatically when the heater comes on to ensure adequate flow for the heater to work efficiently. In this way my discharge pressure is low when the bypass valve is open which saves on pumping costs. I have a 13,000 gallon pool and strive for 39,000 gallons of filtering for a day. When the heater is out of the equation, I run the pump like you suggested over a 24 hour period. I have not found the ultimate flow for my pool heater to run it efficiently. At lower flows, the discharge piping gets very warm and not sure if there is a big enough flow to operate the heater condenser properly. Now we are into entropy and enthalpy and that is another ball of wax in the efficient operation of the whole system. Thanks for your hard work and presentation.

[@grassthief1280]

Great vid Steve thanks for this I have exactly this same set up gonna copy your speeds onto my 1.5 vs superflo pump as we speak

[@bmotivated9]

You can’t just straight up copy because you don’t know the flow rate on your system to turnover pool, Steve has another video showing that.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

@@bmotivated9 @grassthief this is correct. This is an example of how to create a comparable real world variable speed schedule, but there is much to consider about your unique installation. What peripheral items do you have, like salt water. Do you know how much your salt system operates? Most people wouldn't. What is the exact RPM you need for your specific system to close teh flow switch on your salt cell? Or the pressure switch in your heater? Do you even have a heater? These are all questions that need answers in order to design a pump schedule that meets the needs of your pool. It is a dynamic equation and one of the reasons why pool pro's exist. Don't be afraid to reach out for some professional help locally to get someone who can help you optimize your system. Even a one-off payment for a pro to spend an hour or two with you could pay big dividends over the long term. Or just stay dialed into my channel here and you can learn most of what you need to know. It's just that there is actually quite a bit to know and it takes a fair bit of dedication from the pool owner to get their heads around the learning curve. You will get there - watching this video is a very important concept that many people still do not understand. People always say to me they will buy a VS pump when their current single speed one dies. Like go hit that thing with a 2x4 until it bursts into flames...this is more cost effective than waiting until it dies of old age. You could be saving money tomorrow. Ideally sell the old pump if it works fine. There are plenty of suckers, ahem, pool owners who have not seen this video and do not understand how much money these pumps save.

[@bigguy8586]

You forgot the cost of the variable speed pump. I just rebuilt my single speed pump for $250. It lasted for 12 years and cost about $100 a month running about 12 hours per day. A variable speed pump costs $1500-3000 and has to be installed which costs more, upwards of $3000 installed. So if you subtract 2750 difference then you only saved less than $1600 and had to wait 84 months to recoup that up front cost. Those who don't have $3000 laying around burning holes in their wallet to buy things just because you want to save 1600 over 84 months, this is not for them. An even better way to save is to instead invest your $3000 into buying solar panels to run the pump. at $250 per panel, it takes a total of 8 panels @ 400w each to run, so that would be $2000. Then $1000 in battery storage making your own lithium batteries or buy cheap lead acid batteries. $1000 should do on the batteries needed to run a pump for another 8 hours at night. So that's the way I'm looking at investing into MY pool pump power debacle. Yes variable speed pumps are cool. Paying nothing for sunlight is even cooler. Having both would be the bees knees.

[@sethm5681]

You can install and program it yourself and will last you 10yrs as a pool professional it's definitely worth it

[@PWPW-g7n]

I got mine on sale for a little over 1700 including installation. I rebuilt my single speed before I finally took the plunge.

[@mrjeffjenson]

VERY helpful analysis!

[@toddrobinett]

Awesome vid … Thank you as a new pool owner. We have 10k gallon with popups. I’m told the low speed on VS pump won’t run the popups. Would you think a few hours at maximum is enough to allow the popups to do their job?

[@mtebaldi1]

Steve: I have solar electric. I run my dual spd pump at night because cheaper prices. I live in California PG&E and since I have solar they moved me up a tier in cost for daytime usage which is more expensive. I understand that varying you pump speed does save money and if able to run 24/7 means cleaner sanitized water. Im not sure what the savings will be running 24/7 but I'll have to play with the pump rpm and timing once I install the variable spd pmp.

[@smille5291]

Steve isn't that VSP a 3 hp motor ? Wouldn't a regular pool single speed pump 1/12hp motor which is plenty enough for 99.9% of the pools out there use less energy to run at full speed ? My 1 1/2hp single speed cost me .12/hr to run so for 6 hours .72/day even if I went 9 hrs $1.08/day it would still be less than the cost of that VSP ? Also at the lowest speed 2100 would that be enough to push the water through a filter or would it be basically moving water so it isn't stagnant ? Just trying to justify buying a VSP

[@gregjohnson2073]

Wish the comparison would of been with a two speed motor in stead of Single. S1 speeds are not allowed in California

[@TravisCreighton]

Steve, I know I'm late to this party but did you notice the power factor (PF) on your display? There is room for improvement if the manufacturer allowed for a variable capacitor or a selectable capacitor bank based on programmed speed choice (1, 2, or 3). How about a a video on the removal of a booster pump (for a Polaris 280) by using an automatic diverter in your setup? I'd love to see if that is practical/possible.

[@mtebaldi1]

Very interesting video, I have a dual speed pump that I've used for 6-8 years now which I'm planning to change to a variable. In your video you didn't mention the speed for running a suction or pressure pool cleaner for 4hrs a day maybe more depending on the size of your pool.

[@verbalpics]

I was happy to be your thousandth like. This is great info and very well presented. Thank you for sharing!

[@jamesnewton7158]

Good info, thanks for sharing. Not surprising while changes in flow are proportional to changes in speed, changes in power consumption are proportional to the changes in speed cubed. In other words, 2x speed should increase power consumption 8x. Another thing to consider is pressure. Changes in pump head (pressure added by the pump) are proportional to changes in speed squared. So the same 2x speed increase will result in 4x pump head. Is this high pressure a concern for the average pool filter system?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Only from an efficiency standpoint, and also in that you do not want to operate the pump too far from BEP. In reality most pools do not need 80 to 120 gpm around the clock. It was always a bad design. Variable speed pumps have changed the game completely. Low RPM, little in the way of friction, laminar flow, and a huge multiplier for reduction of electrical consumption. It's a grand slam as far as upgrades go. I like to say that home owners would never tolerate this level of inefficiency from any other appliance in the home. But pool pumps have traditionally gotten a pass by only running it for part of the day. That is like driving your car with your foot smashed on the gas, but turning off the car and coasting every other minute.

[@KristinSordi]

My single speed pump has been running every day for 15 years. A new one code my about 1K. I would be curious to see if these new pumps will run 24 hrs a day without stopping for 8 years. Also, they are more than double a single speed pump. It seems to me that every appliance I have purchased in the last 10 years doesnt last nearly as long as the ones I bought 25 years ago. I just think you need to take into account more than just the cost of electricity. But I appreciate your videos and your analysis. Is 8 years the mean time between failure for a 2023/2024 variable speed pool pump?

[@TheRstepien]

Awesome video bro! Now what times of day would you do the 1000, 2000 and 3000 sections? Night ? Day?

[@mattbailey776]

Steve, I appreciate all the videos. I am currently waiting on my DIY vinyl pool kit to arrive. Do you have a video that can tell me what size of pump and filter I need? The pool is approximately 30,000 gallons and the pump and filter will be around 70 ft away from the pool. Thanks again

[@JuanTutors]

Solid lesson! Thanks!

[@timgreen3566]

Great video. Do you run your salt system the whole time?

[@lloydmorrison5979]

Best video of TRUTH and comparison of both motors. I am definitely buying the Variable Speed Pump motor. I currently have a "Challenger " brand pump, and it moves almost 3 times the water the old fashioned Hayward pump ever did, so less filtering time for cleaner water and the motor on the timer Really helped. The "Variable speed" will pay for itself in the first year alone (Actually in 6 months!)

[@mpitogo1978]

sweet thank you!!

[@kumbaproperties2432]

the only issue is that variable pumps like the pentair VS are not reliable and break down costing more money. a single speed motor can run for 10+ years without issues. the savings would make sense if the VS pumps didnt break down with a hefty cost of repair.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

What statistics are you referencing? Do you know someone with a failed pump so ypu are making the assumption they don't last? Because the nation wide data from the pump manufacturers shows variable speed pumps to be outlasting the their single speed predecessors

[@koff1981]

You’re getting “data” from the pump manufacturers? No way they ever skew any of that data to ruin the sales of their pumps huh? One need look no further than KZbin to hear the constant complaints about the poor longevity and the throwaway manufacturing of the control units of vs pumps. Also, you sound like you’re from up north where temperatures are nice and cool in the summer. Try running that pump 24/7 in the southern states where it’s 95+ degrees. Seriously doubt it would last the 84 months.

[@gregfaris6959]

Nice video - wish I had the flow meter setup he has. He left out an important calculation though - or more correctly he glossed over it. The $4200 you “save” on a VS pump is very close to the amount you will pay to buy it and have it installed. In other words, over the service life of the pump you will have saved exactly $0.00. He did mention the cost comparison to install a variable speed vs a fixed speed, but this calculation is essentially meaningless, partly because no one installs fixed-speed pumps any more, but mostly because unless you are building a house or a pool from scratch, you ALREADY HAVE the single speed pump. It came with the house! What this comes down to is very simple: When your old single speed pump finally fails, it is DEFINITELY worth the extra cost to replace it with a variable speed. Prior to that time, there is simply no meaningful economic argument to justify replacing it with a variable speed. Now there could be other factors that make it worthwhile to you. The quietness of the VS pump at lower speeds is a real quality of life factor, and you can program it so that its “quiet time” corresponds to the time you are sitting out and enjoying the pool. Another factor is the ability to tie it into your home automation system to control and monitor it from anywhere. But the white-board financial calculation does not work unless you are building from new, or it’s already time to replace your old end-of-life system.

[@dannyc4419]

Hey Steve, i have a pentair optiflo 1hp pump working with a pentair CC75 filter this is for a 21' round hybird pool with 1.5" pvc. This pool has dual main drain one scimmer and a mastertemp heater with a check valve and sacraficial anoid...thanks to your video's. I would like to get the benefits of a VS pump. What would you sugest i do? Change pump and filter and maybe go to 2" pipe? Pool is 3 years old this is my first pool. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, love your video's Newbies like me need your expertise Thank you!,,

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

There is more info than can be covered here in a YT comment, but the good news is I have a consulting service exactly for this purpose which I think you would benefit from. Take a look here www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/ask-steve.html

[@FocusedontheRoad]

Hi Steve! I have a single speed pentair 015583 Can I switch out the electric box for a veritable speed or should I just replace with a veritable speed and try to sell this one? Installed it yesterday. 😂

[@FocusedontheRoad]

Just realized this was from 3 years ago! 😂

[@_Pearls4Swine]

Greta video if you got stuck with a VSP, but surely you would recommend a more efficient single speed pump correct? Why are you using a 1.5hp 220v pump that draws mores than twice the power consumption at 3450 rpm than a single speed 220v motor? My single speed 1.5hp pump only draws 5 amps at 100gpm at 3450rpm! Please explain the math or did my electrical engineering degree fail me?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

The difference is service factor. Look at THP. The pentair superflo is 1.5hp but 2.2thp. The blue meter shows service factor as well

[@_Pearls4Swine]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve I believe your digital meter is off. How do you read the analogue meter? What was the water flow on the analogue meter? 102 gpm seems highly unlikely even with 2" pipe according to pump flow specs in general. Trying to understand the science between VSP being more efficient when electrical engineers are calling it a scam based on electrical laws. I'd love to see a debate video between your system and those who call it a scam because there's definitely apples and orangs being compared here apparently or somebody is purposely misleading the public. And...no...one is getting rich off of single speed pumps. Does that water actually flow through a real pool or just that closed system for display purposes?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

@@_Pearls4Swine electrical engineers do not call variable speed pumps a scam. They are the ones who understand the affinity laws that govern pump motor RPM, flow and electrical consumption. It is a mathematical certainty that these pumps use less power than a single speed pump. There is no debate needed. This is science. I am not here to debate science. This is a test lab, closed loop plumbing system. FYI I have four redundant flow meters monitoring this system, each one engineered to have less than 2% flow error. So you can count on these flow values being accurate. It is crazy to me that there such debate about something so straight forward. Let me give you a comparable. What if cars only had OFF or full throttle. They would not be very fuel efficient, agreed? So when a new fancy variable speed car comes along there is no need to debate. The old car with off or full speed is inferior. This is where we are. Old single speed pumps are inferior. The technology has made them not useful any longer, and rising electrical costs have made this a more pressing issue for pool owners. I really hope you are on board now. I have explained it, I have drawn pictures, I have recorded actual flow, electrical usage, pressure...I really am at a loss as to how I can further show something which is so black and white. If you lower RPM the flow drops linear along with RPM. The power does not. It drops with an 8x multiplier. What is the argument against this fact of affinity law power consumption?

[@_Pearls4Swine]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Service factor is used to overate a pump , not underate a 2.2hp down to 1.5hp. It's all about the amps. HP means nothing because of the SF lack of standards. gpm/amps is the only quantifiable factor used in energy efficiency. Please compare this against the most efficient single speed motor in amp use for the same gpm flow rate. Then you could destroy any opposing nay sayers and once and for all end the debate.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Definitely I am familiar with service factor. You asked why this pump consumes more power that 1.5hp. It does so because the service factor makes the pump operate as 2.2hp at maximum speed.

[@LeonardCooperman]

Now if people would replace their ac systems with variable speed condensers they would really see some savings!

[@flaviosouza5709]

Hey Steve, great content! Thank you so much for dumbing down enough for me it understand 😂. Does a variable speed pump make sense for a smaller pool? Say 12-15k gallons?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

It sure does make sense. Here is another breakdown video this time for a small pool: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/compare-savings2.html

[@flaviosouza5709]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve in my case, I have a 3/4 HP pump that needs to be replaced (2 inch pipes). I think the smallest variable speed is 1.5 hp. In this case would the savings still be considerable?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

@@flaviosouza5709 back before VS pumps there were only really two decently efficient ways to plumb filtration systems. One was a dual speed pump, which is good but limiting since the low speed either works for your pool and equipment, or it does not. No ability to change it. The other, which is what you have, is a small (1/2 or 3/4) horsepower, high head pump. So you represent that old style of building "most efficient" methods. This means when you switch to VS you will have the least overall opportunity to save money because your previous system was the pinnacle of efficiency already. And yes, VS pumps (all pumps) are so oversized to the average pool. There is such a thing as something like a 0.85hp hayward VS pump (115v super pump vs) which sounds similar, but is unliklely. Probably you have a high head pump now. The Hayward is a medium head and would likely deliver far less water than your previous model even though they sound similar. Every pool is unique, and in general VS pumps save a lot of money, but each situation is unique. Your new pump will likely have to be a 1.5hp to perform similar to your last pump, but you will run it at lower speeds 90% of the time and it WILL end up saving you money. Enough to justify the purchase. But slower than your neighbor who has a 2hp single speed pump right now.

[@flaviosouza5709]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation! I have a Marathon .75 hp motor. We have had that motor since we bought the house - 10 years ago. Chances are the previous owners had it for several years as well, but it is starting to go out (grinding noise). Local pool store days just change the motor, but I went down the KZbin rabbit hole researching about it and came across your videos. My pump assembly can probably use an upgrade as well, reason why I started looking at a complete assembly, not just a motor replacement.

[@kbob8424]

Great video, thanks fort the break down. One question, how much does geographic location matter? I am planning a similar setup but am thinking here in the hot, dry southwest, I may need to run the higher speeds longer? Its that correct?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

It really is pool by pool. If you do not have surface debris then your speeds are good. If the skimmers are not working well enough then more time at higher speeds should be tried.

[@LLJR]

What size pump should I use for a 40,000 gallon pool currently there’s a 1.5 HP and the pool plaster said that pump is to small

[@sarentopi1502]

The real question at the end of the month, especially in the summer, is do you end up with a green pool?

[@CD-bc4qr]

If I’m replacing a single speed 1.5hp , do i need a 3hp pump. I ask Leslie and they tell me need the bigger pump plus that’s all they sell.

[@Apachejoe]

I only regret that I have but one like to give this video.

[@njgrplr2007]

How would 12 hours at 2500 compare? Thats what my pool installer has me using on my recently installed pool.

[@Arcanus31]

i been watching tons of your videos, but i havent followed you long enough is this wwall on all your videos your pool set up ? what type of pool do you have my goodness

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

This is a test lab exclusively for testing and evaluating variable speed pumps

[@1439241]

Hi, I'm looking for a recommendation. What do you recommend as the best pump for an infinity pool (1.) a single speed or (2.) a variable speed pump? Thanks in advance

[@averagejoe112]

Mass flow rate is proportional to power cubed?

[@ocalaeyeguy]

Steve. Which current variable speed 1.5 hp pump is the most efficient power consumption wise at various RPMs? In other words, do all VS pumps consume the same energy at 1000 2000 and 3000 RPMs?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

They all consume different amounts of power at those set rpm ranges. This is something you can reference by looking up WEF ratings for any pump. This is the newest metric to compare pumps and motor potential. Weighted energy factor runs the pumps across a spectrum of rpm ranges and records the amount of power in kW that it takes to move 1000 gallons of water. The lower the WEF the more efficient it is overall. But even this is tricky because high HP motors will skew the WEF and increase the WEF rating. Still, this is the best apples to apples compariaon you can look at for variable speed pool pump efficieny comparison across brands and different models. I think I read that the 1.85hp Hayward tristar had the most efficient WEF rating but pumps change so fast now...that information might not be accurate any more.

[@grassthief1280]

Hello Steve I've noticed some sand at the bottom of my pool & was gonna change the sand out at the end of season anyways but now can't leave it so need to act was wondering what size filter should I be looking at if I was to go with a Cartridge filter my pump is the SUPER FLO VS. 1.5 & have 20k gallons can you help me with the Size filter ???

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Easy to size cartridge filters. First step look at maximum design flow rate. Bigger is better. Often you will be on or near two filter sizes with a choice of what to get. In this case usually max design flow rate will be the deciding factor. A small cartridge filter and a large one both can work on the same pool. The difference (other than max flow rate potential) is how long you will be able to go in between needing to open your filter and clean your filter elements. Some ares like Florida use small filters, 100 to 200sf commonly. Most other areas would use 300sf to 400sf on the same pool that FL uses 100 to 200. Only difference in the FL filters need to be serviced and cleaned much more often. For a 16x32' pool (20k gal) I would tend to size this around 300sf and I would want my max design flow rate to be at least 120 GPM. Then, start shopping around to see what you can find. If you found 250 or 350 would I consider it? 250 not so much, 350 sure!

[@Martinko_Pcik]

You said that @1000rpm the filtration quality is compromised. What is then running at 1000 rpm good for ? Why not just turn it off ? From the filtration quality point of view, you might not be comparing apples to apples even though the filtered volume is the same.

[@Martinko_Pcik]

It would be useful to show the efficiency boost in Watts per GPM.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

The quality of the filtration goes down because the diffusion in the pool is limited from the low speeds, which is why you also need times at medium speed and high speed every day. A dynamic filtration schedule. In fact water filters better at low speeds than it does at high speeds for most systems. So the long hours at low speed are saving you the most money and also giving you the best filtration quality. But you still need to consider diffusion and circulation in the pool which is why you don't just set 1000 RPM and forget it 24 hours per day.

[@Martinko_Pcik]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Ok, got it. So the low speed has the best filtration but mixes water poorly. So maybe it would be the best to mix the low and high and medium intervals. HLLMLLMLLHLLMLLMLL...

[@philsalley3278]

Steve, if you use a vacuum pool cleaner which requires high speed to work how do variable speed pumps help. I'm in southern California and filter my pool 4 hours/day which keeps my pool clean (no one uses the pool). Have never been able to figure out how a variable speed pump would help.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

If you run your pump only 4 hours daily then ypu probably have little to gain. If it were my pool I delete the booster vac and get a robotic pool vac and run a low-amd-slow longer daily run schedule for a VS pump. Here is a cost comparison vs a pump running only four hours daily: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/4-hours.html

[@philsalley3278]

Thanks@@Swimmingpoolsteve

[@nophmetermixing6432]

Great one! Steve, do you have a diagram of swimming pool and Spa jets pipping? Trying to build a 12x45x4.6 stainless steel pool.thanks

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Every pool is different and has unique considerations. I prefer home runs for every pipe in the pool for ultimate individual control over the lines. Are you building a myrtha pool?

[@nophmetermixing6432]

Not the Italian Myrtha pool. We will build the pool in Seattle locally. Fabricator is very excited about this...

[@penniewyatt9391]

I live in Hawaii, and KWH means nothing after the company “adjustment” which is a fake term for “we charge whatever we want because we are a co-op and you are a captive consumer audience”.

[@thomasjames9212]

I'm with you... I run 3hrs and 6hrs during prime time 9 to 5 solar covers with 15hrs trickle from the battery over night. The trick is the heater...

[@BillyJoeBob52]

I have a pool with two single-speed pumps; a main pump and a booster pump to drive the pool sweep. Each is on its own timer. Is there a practical way to build in functionality to remove one of the pumps (changing the plumbing, obviously) by adding a valve that opens only at a higher pump speed? I'd like to switch to a single variable speed pump and get rid of the other pump altogether. Is this feasible?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

The best move here is install the variable speed pump but delete the pressure vacuum system. Turn the pressure vacuum line into another return line, install a VS pump and then buy a robotic pool cleaner. Divorcing the vacuuming from the filtration system will save you on electricity and reduce the amount of filter maintenance you need to do.

[@Paggy6668]

I echo Steve's advice. I did this exact thing. Had a booster pump with a pressure side Polaris cleaner and sold it and got a Dolphin electric robot that works great separate from the pool pump equipment. Definitely the way to go. That small booster pump was using more energy in only 2 hrs a day than what my VSP uses all day.

[@mbaabugri537]

Good morning sir please I want to the swimming pool materials I'm in Africa Ghana sir how can get some to buy sir

[@carolwilliams2706]

I'm getting a new variable speed pump how long should you run it ? My old pump runs 7 hrs a day.

[@BillyJoeBob52]

Based on the video, sounds like 24x7, with varying speeds.

[@jimbo5635]

I barely filter 28000 gallons a day on my 28000 gallon pool and the water has always been crystal clear. I would have to run the 1 hp super pump 24 hours a day to reach your recommendation.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

This is not my recommendation. This is the math behind water filtration. Yes you can get by with less filtration and your water will appear clean. Chlorine in your water makes up for what is not filtered out so in your case you use more chlorine than you could be using with a proper filtration schedule. Some people only run their pump 1 hour per day and they swear the water is always perfect. Fortunately there are established standards for things like water filtration so we don't have to guess. I always change things up to cars for comparisons...my new car says change the oil every 5000 miles, but I only change it every 15,000 miles and my car is always running fine. But I think we can all agree that it is not as good to change my oil every 15,000 miles even though to the driver everything appears to be working fine.

[@DaveRosenhauer]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve The Car example is a great one in that changing your oil every XXXX miles isn't the best way to change it. That's just a number that the auto industry puts out because it's easy to follow schedule. But like a pool there are many factors that come into play. Time at different loads causes oil breakdown at different rates. Driving at 10 MPH for 9 hours with AC/radio off barely affects the oil. But going 90mph pulling a trailer will cause way more breakdown of the oil. Same with a pool. Cloudy day where nobody swims vs sunny day where you have 30 people over are radically different. But for your comparison using the same volume for both would be correct. And in both cases changing the water more or your oil more often will cost more but will guarantee that the job gets done and avoid possible long term issues.

[@Freedom-2024-2u]

What about the "Pump Affinity Law"? this states that half the speed doesn't use have the power, it uses 1/8th the power. Did I miss something here? My source info - Department of Energy "Measure Guideline: Replacing Single-Speed Pool Pumps with Variable Speed Pumps for Energy Savings" page 13 paragraph 2.3. Please look it up...

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Not sure what you are talking about friend. Yes all of that is true, which is the point of this video. That is what I am showing. So I am not sure what you are saying.

[@lenlocascio5102]

I dont understand why you have to filter 3X the pool volume in gallons to effectively filter 95% of the pool. How was that metric determined? Also do all variable pumps come with programmable timer?

[@westerncowhand7814]

With out being too pithy: the awnser is math. Run this model in your head. Turn the pump on and filter half the pool without anything being filtered again. Then filter the next 25% of the pool but 50% is being filtered again. It will take you twice as long to get to 75% as it did to get to 50%. Then from 75% to 87.5% will double again as 75% of your intake has already been filtered. As you approach 100% it basically takes forever or all day. You just modeled calculus. 😊

[@CCCC-tq8yo]

Whats the cost saveing difference per yr not per 5 yrs

[@kingalainc1]

84 months is 7 years, simple division will get you the cost per year.

[@Ingeanous]

Every pool is different, my sweet spot for low flow is about 800 RPM at 95-100 watts.... Even lower takes more power...

[@BRunner12]

I run single-speed pump 8-10 Hours a day in the winter, fall, and spring, and my electric bill for 3600 Square Foot home is between $100 and $120 a month. You might want to try single speed pump running full tilt all the time, it might save you money.

[@michaelmccully10]

Actually the savings are going to be more as the permanent magnet motor is more efficient than a standard single speed motor.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

This is true

[@Kidam101]

Ran the numbers with all parameters so let me add to this. In quebec the cost this pump is 2000$ with taxes. The equivalent 1.5 hp single speed is going for 735$. Giving you a sunk cost of 1265$ at day 1 of your 84 months window. Assuming in canada that we use our pool from the first of may to the 30 of september it gives us 152 days of usage. With these parameter in mind in Canada you are looking at a TOTAL saving of 538$ at the end of the 7 years and a 128$ for Quebec (numbers are at 0.10041$ max rate for electricity). For me in Canada assuming a day 1 sunk cost of 1265$ going for a variable speed pump makes 0 sense. It would take you the better part of 5 years before you realise any real saving.

[@poolmonkey7479]

The variable speed pumps rarely make it 5 years here before drive failure, usually a dead screen or just failure in general. They are disposable, not worth the cost of repair.

[@Paggy6668]

@@poolmonkey7479 My Hayward VSP has been going strong since 2016 without a single issue here in California. I was able to buy it back then for only $775😳and recouped my investment in under a year with my electric savings. It was such a no brainer for me, even with a 2 year old single speed pump that I couldn't say no.

[@jimnicholson7634]

I would buy a $2,500 canadian, 2.5 HP, VS PUMP WHEN THE MANUFACTURER PROVIDES something more than a one summer warranty. They want to phase out the single speed pump and everyone can buy what they want us to have.

[@PursueTheUnknown]

12 hours at 2000 rpm, and 12 hours at 1000 rpm, would be 7.86 kw per day. Would filter just under 60,000 gallons.

[@LubaLuba1]

Are we talking about saving money or effectively filtering the pool ?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Both

[@LubaLuba1]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve to say that you need to filter 4 times over to get every gallon is insane and lacks logic.

[@TK-qm8rb]

@@LubaLuba1 Filtering... It may not seem straight forward , but Fluid dynamics is not insane and it is very logical. Read up on the topic and you can see how this is a fact. Saving money... A 3 phase motor uses almost half the amps of a single phase motor with the same HP output. That may not make sense but it is true. I have a lap pool powered by a pair of 3 inch thrust tubes. Each tube is powered by a 5HP motor and pushes 300 gpm. When I switched the single phase motors out for 3 phase motors it dropped my bill by half. For me it was needed because every time the pool pump turned on while I had the lap system running, it would trip the circuit breaker. Now that it uses almost half the amps, they can all run at the same time. Why is it that 3 phase isn't used much in the U.S.? Maybe because we don't pay as much for our electric like other countries.

[@Cprjwkjehro]

Steve, get I tripod for your camera, for Christ sake.. I have to take a dramine to watch your video.

[@lrc87290]

And who thinks electric rates are going to stay the same. The savings are likely to be higher as rates rise over time.

[@Yourenotreal7]

Won’t you please? Won’t you please? Please won’t you be my neighbor?

[@nautidad]

So every 7 years I will be buying new pump? My current one is 14 years old.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

The old one was rated for 7 years also by the manufacturers. TEFC motors should be outlasted old, open style motors. But the drive controller....well time will tell.

[@JustSomeGuy009]

jesus, 84 months is 21 years of operation for us with only ~4months of weather where a pool is useful.

[@m.haroonikram9945]

I use my pool for about 4 months too, so I divided his calculations by 3 and it seems like I'm still winning a tiny bit as long as the pump lasts 7 years or more.

[@kingalainc1]

Enjoy 21 years of savings...😁😁

[@chrispoccoli7563]

A 20.000 gallon pool with a 1.5hp pool pump..needs 4 hours running time out of a single stage stage motor..that's at 3750 rpm..with salt ad a hour.stay away from the vari speed pumps..garbage..

[@yes9900]

Didn’t we just watch how that makes 0 sense. And worst of all you mention using salt … probably best we don’t follow your opinion.

[@wilsoneashoian5789]

I never run my single speed motor for 24 hours, only 5-6 hours. You forgot to mention capX of the new pump and motor to be added to the total cost plus the power. It is like saying Ev runs on electricity but when 60% of the US power is generated by the fossil fuel. It means an EV runs on fossil fuel 60% of the time.

[@gused82]

Irrelevant to the subject

[@jasonaston2118]

A decision to replace the pump occurs every 84 months that cost is baked into pool ownership

[@TrueStrategicEyes]

There are also cheaper variable speed pumps like black and decker, neptune, century and ac Smith that all coat less than 1k which is an enormous saving from the 2k to 3k main pool brand prices.

[@wilsoneashoian5789]

@@TrueStrategicEyes But those single speed motors are now illegal in California.

[@bribengal1968]

Definitely not worth it.

[@poolmonkey7479]

100% not worth it and oh so problematic…I refuse to install one and will cancel service if one appears.

[@billbolin1183]

Pinter pool pump

[@RadioRich100]

Your theory is flawed. When you reduce the speed your not moving nearly as much water so it has to run longer to accomplish the same amount of filtering. Second you failed to mention the fact that a VS pump costs 3 times as much and has to run longer to move as much water which is self defeating. Also those VS pumps are very susceptible to electrical surges and lightning strikes because theres a computer involved. The battery goes bad in those computers and you cant replace it so the service life is not good and being 3 times as expensive your not going save anything. A single speed will last at least 5 years, that thing may not. If the computer gets taken out you have to replace the whole thing far earlier than the pump would have worn out. You cannot say you get more water flow with lower rpms, thats not possible. Also your accessories dont work at those low speeds and if you have a solar heater you not getting the water temperature you need unless you turn the speed up! So the thing defeats its intended purpose. VS pumps are B.S. a single speed is more reliable and does the job no matter what and weather wont destroy it. Over all your spending more money not less and the overall performance of the pool suffers. Pool stores want to sell those super expensive pumps. My neighbor had to replace his within 2 years because the computer got zapped. Another $1600.00 ! and for what, poor performance more complicated and less reliable. You can keep them.

[@AllenIsbell]

The data is in the video. Try again.

[@RadioRich100]

@@AllenIsbell The data isnt right. Your data is the what its "supposed" to be, not is. The real world says your calculations dont work. Are you selling these things?

[@snapmentos3685]

Great video. But there's one question I have. Your calculations are done without head pressure. Can you do calculations with head pressure of say 12lbs or so to see what the results would be. Because it seems without that calculation it really wouldn't show real numbers of savings...

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

This system is 30' of head pressure