How Much Pain Before You Question Your Training? | Starting Strength Clips

[@lhoffmom]

I'd rather hurt and be strong. 41 yr old female recently got into lifting this past March. Started with empty bar and have my deadlift to 185 and squat 135. Can also do 5 strict pull ups and a bunch of real push ups. I'm a cancer survivor of 9 yrs so I'm trying to gain back some years to my life. Love your videos, especially the barbell row one. If your technique seminars were ever in the Ohio, PA region would love to attend.

[@1173aw]

Same here, I am a native Texan but live in Columbus Ohio so I would have quite a trip to make it to one of the seminars. Definitely hope to soon though!

[@robertlevy4613]

What a powerful statement. You go girl. Congratulations on your survivorship!

[@xDMrGarrison]

Good job! I wish you much strength and joy with your lifting :) I'm a 25 year old guy, not a survivor or sufferer of anything, I just love to lift heavy weights :D (pretty pathetic, but heavy for me, which is what matters the most)

[@jeanpauljeanpaul2530]

Great story. I’m 13 months post traumatic brain injury, started with the bar, I love lifting more than I love gluten free pancakes.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Rip himself has said this, There is nothing more important in LIFE than strength. He was referring to health of all sorts, physical and mental, as well as lowering the POSSIBILITIES of many chronic deseases, etc...

[@PassportG]

I once met a runner back in my younger days. He complained of knee pain while running. After I introduced him to barbell prescription he's still in pain but he quit running long distance to squat 405. 😁

[@klunky]

56 years old, had prostate cancer surgery on March 11, started LP six weeks later and squatted 335 3x5 today (July 27). Cancer doesn’t heal but it can be removed successfully - I am now undetectable. I have had minimal DOMS during the two LP’s I’ve done, had a few muscle spasms/ strains but I had those regularly with no strength training. Strength training means I’m giving the finger to aging and sickness, every gd day. Hey Rip, let’s get that SS gym open in the Chicago Loop, I will surely join.

[@robertlevy4613]

How are you now? Still doing well?

[@Ilnoobroom]

This man knows his shit. He is spot on.

[@GladysAmelia]

Much wisdom in the last 30 seconds.

[@roywrather1201]

78 back and knee pain. when I squat etc everything feels good, no pain. I can pick things (small things like a pencil which I couldn't do before starting SS. lasts 3 days. so I have to do it again! Thanks Rip.

[@colinsweller]

I dont think necessarily somthing has to be wrong with programming. When I was in my 20's I would get terribly sore. All the time. Couldnt squat because of it. Chest would be bone deep felt like it was gonna rip type sore for 5 6 days. Iam 35 now I train each lift 2-3 times a week except deadlift and that type of soreness hasnt happened for about 7 years, usually 48-72 hrs of soreness now. Doesnt matter the program I could do a total leg smash, 2 hours worth of sqautting, belt squatting, lunging, whatever else and I will heal up within 72. All diet related.

[@jonathanpratte1988]

I had right knee pain for weeks because I wasn't bending my torso enough while squatting. Lesson learned! Totally pain free now.

[@JesseGilbride]

This is a good one. Uncle Rip tells it like it is, laden with useful info.

[@DaJesta088]

Amen to that last 30 seconds. I've been on LP for 2 months. My squat has gone from 135 to 245, my deadlift from 155 to 250. I may be old but you can bet your ass I'm going to be hard to kill.

[@DaJesta088]

Anti Retard Equation Yes, I know. Hence the “going to be” in my OP...

[@DaJesta088]

Anti Retard Equation No problem sir... Hope you’re either also on this journey or completed it yourself!

[@oc4026]

@@DaJesta088 It is a journey that never ends, because you will never be satisfied (and that's a good thing)!

[@JCTEAM60]

Knee sleeves, elbow sleeves, Biofreeze, wrist wraps, good warm ups with a sweat ... all help the aging lifter extend their lifting career and their comfort. As Rip said in an earlier vid, you got to work smarter as you advance beyond 40 and have reasonable expectations for the outcome you can and will achieve.

[@HAL-dm1eh]

Most of the pain I experienced during NLP as an over 40 lifter was sore tendons. Wasn't fun and not looking forward to that small hell again when I go back to it. But as it was said, would I rather be strong and in pain or weak and in pain? I'd rather be a jacked daddy. 💪

[@ClaimClam]

We need more on HEALING from Mark, he is way more knowledgeable than most of there other youtube clowns

[@TRFrench]

I've started using a 10 point scale I started seeing in the doctor's office at KP to help me work on solving my Patellar-Quad Tendon problems. It usually has been a 3 but goes to 4 or 5 when I drive my car (but I have it down to a 1-2 when driving because I got my foot in to a neutral position on the pedals as opposed to moving with my toe). Bottom line it should be an analytical tool and thank God that you don't have the level 10 pains. (I'm 58) (And looking forward to the Press and Bench Seminar in Portland this weekend!)

[@johnrosson7425]

i've experienced what i'd call deep, bone soreness in the hip/hip-flexor area for several weeks ever since attempting to incorporate the deadlift into my program nearly a month ago. even though i started with just the bar and light loads (135-225) , the sensation never dissipated. soreness and what feels like popping in my bones persists throughout the day in the hip area as does an inability to walk without a weird, wobbling swagger. i haven't been able to figure out what happened, but have felt the prudent thing to do at this juncture is to cease this movement. it has been really frustrating because i devoted dozens of hours to researching deadlift basics prior to attempting it and this "injury" has been relatively incapacitating. i had been training and making good progress for nearly a year prior to this happening. if anybody can shed any light on my predicament, i'd be very grateful. in the meantime, i've just resigned myself to just doing other things (upper body) and hoping the hip condition will get better in time. i am a 44-year-old male, 6', 190.

[@PaultheSheik]

I am two years older than you and experience the exact same thing sadly after weeks of research and working on form. I have temporarily given up deadlifts although I squat without the pain. In a couple weeks (full month since last deadlift) I will try deadlifting again. If the pain returns, that means unfortunately I will have to give up my favorite exercise, permanently.

[@JCTEAM60]

Xiang Luo - Find a strong experienced deadlifted and ask them to watch you perform the lift with moderate weight. If it is a form issue (very common!), they should be able to help you correct the movement pattern. Weakness in the hamstrings, muscle strength imbalance and tightness in the hip flexors will eventually expose themselves as you progress in weight too the point you can no longer cheat your way to growth and need to be addressed to achieve continued success.

[@666legnadibrom]

Try a deadlift variation like rdl or stiff leg

[@MrRolyat98]

There’s a good gym bro quote for you. “Do you want to hurt and be strong or do you want to hurt and be weak?” -in my George Carlin voice- “that’s it! We got two things. Pick one!”

[@HellaMarkHarley]

“Grow the fuck up” 😂

[@BLOEDVLEK]

This was honestly fascinating. Setting a 48hour window to moving and contracting a muscle. I have no idea.

[@markus64s]

It's true. If you have a joint replaced, you'll be up and rehabbing it almost immediately.

[@toddknode752]

to me pain is when you have the issue of doing a movement in a manner which causes pain but their is a way to do the movement pain free, you just need to adjust to it. An injury is when you have no way to do a movement pain free, and you should stop and allow your body to heal.

[@ToddCBrown]

"You're gonna hurt and be strong or you're gonna hurt and be weak." - Rip I have said those exact words so many times to my wife. Of course stating a training program makes you sore. You're sore sitting on your butt on the coach already. At least get something for your effort. But people think they can enjoy being on the couch and not bother. Then those of us who get strong end up having to clean up the mess from the choices they made as they get to frail to do the basic thing of life.

[@radicalbyte]

If you're aching after you haven't trained for a couple of weeks then it's normal and it'll go away. If you're experiencing pain, you have to see a doctor because something is wrong. Like me, I'm benched because I strained my supraspinatus and half the muscles down my left arm with a bench snafu. So that means no training until I heal and a week of aching when I get back and a review of my training to fix the weakness on the back of my shoulders.

[@MusicStudent1]

After years of lifting, it comes down to knowing your own body. Everybody is different. One must know when something’s about to break or give way, then stop. Usually it’s toward the end of the workout. The trick is, in order to improve and get stronger, you’ve got to really push it (at least I do). I’m probably right at the edge of injury all the time but it’s got to be that way. Yes, I’m sore all the time. Hot shower, a rest, it’s something one can live with. I wouldn’t question a program over soreness, that’s just part of it.

[@serjstoned]

This man says it like it is. Rip for president

[@brianmclean8732]

At some point we will have to have a new conversation about healthy hurt and how that is a problem for the medical profession. If they do nothing and it goes away, they didn't do anything. If they recommend something and it doesn't go away, the didn't do anything. If they do something and it gets better, they did something. So, they recommend rest or decreased stress., because then they did something, and if it would get better with no intervention they did something and if you actually needed the rest you still get better. Find a doctor who is good at working with "Healthy Hurt". They will need to have some level of a relationship so their license isn't at risk for telling you to lift with an injury.

[@m_r__r_o_b_o_t]

Great video. Would love some advice on how to rehab golfers elbow

[@SueRosalie]

he does mention that in one of his other videos. You have to create inflammation via lots of chinups.

[@m_r__r_o_b_o_t]

SueRosalie thanks, seen that now

[@robertanderson9509]

@@m_r__r_o_b_o_t did it work out?

[@macectoman]

What finally persuaded me to give up deadlifting was the possibility of squatting with 405 lbs for a 1RM. Actually, the pain in my arthritic right knee is comparable to a severe hyperextension. Furthermore, I do not experience it in my left knee, which has also been diagnosed as "bone on bone." In other words, I did not want the pain/arthritis in my right knee to interfere with squatting, at which I do not experience any pain at all and where I am only 2 weeks away from squatting 405. (Last Sunday I did 395 x 1 x 2.)

[@Bostonaholic]

I should totally buy a Starting Strength Boston shirt!

[@killerrush77]

everything heals but cancer and lower back pain........

[@ramdom_assortment]

Ahem, stem cells.

[@AlvinATMurdockJr]

What exercises are recommended for acute injuries (for example the hamstring tear that was mentioned)? Hamstring curls or low bar squats?

[@jeffreybabino8161]

Hi Marc I have been doing strong lifts for a while but I get very sore feel like I'm over training really thinking about going back to starting strength my legs and lower back especially 😊

[@AmorFati777X]

Lost the last 9 months to lumbar facet arthropathy and just now barely green lighted to train again... Subscapularis tear, bilateral AC joint arthritis distally resected, FAI, sports hernia, teres major trigger point, tennis elbow that still won't go the fuck away after several months, and a bunch of minor bullshit along the way. It's more mentally painful to not lift than to lift.

[@Mauricekaip]

This was a good video. But it needs more Milk.

[@PhilippMehr]

Im 33. After 10 years of training like a Bodybuilder, I wasnt able to make any more progress at all, so I searched for different programms that would help me progress. And I found one with starting strength! In only two weeks Ive gained 20kg on every major lift. But also after only two weeks, my body is a mess. Its not used to the high frequenzy of squatting 3x a week. My left teres major screams in pain and cramps everytime I try to squat or bench (Im a tall guy of 6,5 with long forearms, so I have to use a pretty uncomfortable noarrow grip as long as I dont want to rerack the weight onto my hands). On my right side my hip flexor and external rotator wont let me walk normal without... do you say with a limp in english?... Im right handed, so I have the slight tendency, that my left side is a bit more forward then my right... like a boxer. This caused no problems in low frequenzy high intensity training, but now I experience pain on a level which Im nearly not able to tolerate every time Im at the gym. So I have to stop working out on that day and just do some rehab. After foamrolling and painkiller the pain is tollerable the next day. No bruise, so I think its either a minor tear of a muscle fibre or a inflammed cramp... triggerpoint? What can I do about that? I love to see my numbers go up and love to see my body change for the better after all those years, but I cant go on to train the way I did now.

[@LTPottenger]

Try training twice a week and don't be afraid to back off the weight and work back up if you are getting beat up. I would also do fewer sets of squats and only do romanian deadlifts not full deadlifts.

[@saqibzulfiqar8025]

I want to ask a question on doing squats with rounded shoulders. My trainer says I can’t do back squats because of that. Where do I send this question for Rip to address this concern ?

[@dwhittz93]

starting strength forum

[@ollvi]

just fix your posture first, so you will prevent injuries as much as possible. Trust me, i started lifting with shit posture and i was always in joint pains, but then i humbly just fixed my posture and now i can lift without pain most of the time. Also posture will affect your performance a lot!

[@saqibzulfiqar8025]

Ismael aljaroudi the coach is not a SSC. His logic is that rounded shoulders will shift the weight forward and there will be too much over extension in the lumbar spine. He suggests front squats instead. I’m confused with this logic. As long as the bar is over the center of my feet, I should be good.

[@saqibzulfiqar8025]

ollvi did you get help to fix the fixture? Did you have a SS coach near you live?

[@ollvi]

@@saqibzulfiqar8025 no coach, i just watched posture fix videos on youtube and did the exercises shown in those videos

[@kemptonbryan]

What kind of stuff to rehab muscle tears? I assume standard barbell movements and their assistance movements.

[@WiecznieNieNasycony]

you never tear a muscle if you dont take steroids

[@kemptonbryan]

@@WiecznieNieNasycony I would agree most of the time. I can occasionally happen Natty though

[@WiecznieNieNasycony]

@@kemptonbryan to mega noob that dont know how to lift or same idiotsss that ego lift

[@jeffreyabelson7171]

Pain is from injury - soreness is just a sign of new training on old muscles

[@outdoorsman9384]

Hay Pink one , good stuff

[@ericdaniel323]

The most exquisite soreness is after you get halfway strong and then take a layoff for some dumbass reason. If I am away from the barbell for more than a couple of weeks I go all the way back to 135 for a workout and maybe 185 for the next one or I can't walk for a week.

[@HooDRidEWhiteY]

Same

[@TayLybb]

6 mo NLP. Hah. Moved on to the Bridge after 2 months.

[@gojira444]

why so soon?

[@AhmedKhan49]

I still don't understand how people do NLP beyond about 3 months. Unless their amazing genes allow for continued adaptation, or they reset a lot in that period. Edit (21/8/2019): It's also possible that they gain a lot of body weight for increased strength.

[@oc4026]

@@AhmedKhan49 I've stuck to a NLP for 3 years.

[@AhmedKhan49]

@@oc4026 That's interesting. Can you tell me how you progressed during those 3 years?

[@oc4026]

@@AhmedKhan49 Basically, I am too lazy to switch to more complicated programming, because I do not like it. I tried nSuns for about two months and hated it. I can't add weight to the bar every single session, but I just keep trying, honestly. I don't ever 'reset', I just keep doing the same weight over and over again, until I break a plateau. If I am really struggling, I will make sure to eat a lot and have enough protein. My lifts after three years: Bench: 275 lbs Squat: 375 lbs (I neglect squats) Deadlift: 595 lbs Those are pretty much the only three compound lifts I do, as well as rows. I do various accessories and lots of cardio. My squat is pretty bad compared to deadlift, because I neglected it for a very long time because my form was bad and I used to get sore knees.

[@Brararaf101]

Who likes being sore I stopped over training years ago it's hard to not push yourself cause I go hard then I'm sore

[@navidshahbaz2350]

except cancer and lower back pain...

[@DK-hs4dd]

Did he just say loaded lung walks are stupid? What makes them stupid?

[@cooldude70-13]

single leg work causes unequal spinal loading. this becomes unsafe when using any significant amount of weight. not bad as a warm up with low weights though if you are young and don't have any previous back injuries.

[@bigsalty2003]

@@cooldude70-13 life causes unequal spinal loading

[@smexyboii]

@@bigsalty2003 true!

[@JamesJBGray]

I do like being a bit sore...

[@Filaxsan]

Master.

[@houtexflex]

2:57 What's Rip really talking about here???

[@3Q2HFNILQHF]

There's a huge difference between joint pain and muscle pain. One is good and one is not.

[@anarchic_ramblings]

My wife's accute pain.

[@sheadoherty7434]

What type of soreness? Muscle soreness, as long as it goes away its fine. If not, you are over training / under recovered. If your joints are sore, you're bastardizing the exercise.

[@aprlv6732]

I find it very hard for someone to tear a muscle or tendon if you’re not on steroids . (Very common) . Unless you train like a complete idiot and over train

[@GimmeDopamine]

I love your expansive knowledge

[@teodormrdenovic1981]

Anyone else noticed his weird ‘first-finger and thumb’ mannerisms?

[@TheClearT.O-911]

his hands are continuously looking to grasp the bar

[@SueRosalie]

why do people have to pick apart every tiny perceived flaw. It's just bizarre.

[@sghost128]

Dude if someone is training because they like feeling sore just let them...

[@oc4026]

Who the fuck likes feeling sore?

[@edkennedy7952]

How much pain?????????? Mabey you should stay home lol.

[@CCmagee3]

Soreness can be healed quickly by eating enough protein and nutrition and drinking water.

[@stoempert]

Incoherent rant alert The whole notion that you gonna be hurting after 40 years of age, with or without strength training, is ridiculous. If you wanna be strong, be strong, but don't pretend that it does anything for a long and healthy life in and out of itself. What do you gain by being able to squat let's say 200 kg as opposed to 100 kg? Most don't need that in life and lifting heavy comes with risks and definitely wear and tear. In general people don't tear muscles and/or ligaments doing brisk walks and some bodyweight work.

[@atamola]

I beg to differ. If you do a search on google scholar, you'll find that there is quite a bit of support for the notion that physical strength has a positive effect on quality of life and longevity. Moreover, there are some people now advocating for muscle mass (and I think also strength) to be considered a vital sign. Now, there is of course a case for U or J-shaped responses (you pass certain point and then negatives may outweigh positives), but in general what this guy (Rippetoe) advocates is progressive (again, *progressive*) overload, so there is an argument to be made that we are on the positive part of the curve. In other words, lifting will not hurt you --quite the opposite: it will improve your quality of life and probably add some extra months. What will hurt you are ego lifts.

[@stoempert]

@@atamola i don't know the research you are referring to. Is that strong/muscular people compared to general population? I could think of a bunch of reasons why that would favour 'muscles', but not because of the muscles itself.

[@atamola]

@@stoempert the details are in the specific papers. Lots of them. Best thing to do if you are really interested, is to type the keywords in Google scholar, read the abstracts, decide which ones you want more detail about the methods used, note the DOI and read the paper (use sci-hub with the DOI). The research is there and it's quite interesting.

[@klunky]

Suggest reading ‘The Barbell Prescription’ for a lengthy, scientific, detailed explanation of the benefits of strength training for over-forty lifters.

[@oc4026]

Grip strength has a potent relationship with mortality and health.

[@zacharylarue7939]

It's tremendously common for lifters of all ages to have chronic pain when doing SS. If this is the case, you should stop doing SS immediately. I know from personal experience.

[@zacharylarue7939]

If your squat or deadlift feels grindy as **** stop doing it. You are ****ing the **** out of your joints and back. No one in the SS crew is going to give a **** or help you out of your chair at age 50. Severe disc degeneration and a hip replacement is not bad ***. You cannot rely on an SS coach to tell you when things are wrong. Those guys live in a bubble. You MUST listen to your own body.

[@SueRosalie]

chronic pain? You're doing something wrong if you've got constant pain. Fix your form.

[@SueRosalie]

@@zacharylarue7939 er no if you are experiencing something weird like that you need to get it diagnosed by a doctor and/or a qualified physiotherapist who is knowledgeable in barbell lifts.

[@zacharylarue7939]

SueRosalie there is no evidence that chronic pain has anything to do with form. Please educate yourself.

[@zacharylarue7939]

SueRosalie a doctor will tell you to stop lifting(bad advice) and stop doing a linear progression(good advice).