My brother and I always called this effect "Tom & Jerry." We were Tom, computer's Jerry, because in the first 20% of the episode, we're just dominant and tormenting the computer. But around the mid-game, the tide turns, and then it's obvious that the deck is stacked against you and Jerry's on a runaway comeback unless you can hold him down. We also noticed this in Blitz Football.
@BrunoBarcelosAlves2 жыл бұрын
So everything changed... MIDWAY through the game?
@70smebbin2 жыл бұрын
@bruno BOOOOOO
@ac3sw1ld23 жыл бұрын
Bill Clinton as a secret character was always hilarious to me even as a kid
@alnilamecrota81473 жыл бұрын
Lol don't forget about P Funk.
@livefreeprintguns3 жыл бұрын
Was that with or without his saxophone? 🤣🤣🤣
@worminator153 жыл бұрын
Do you mean hillaryous?
@epicon63 жыл бұрын
@@worminator15 Do you mean hyullaereyus?
@m0rthaus3 жыл бұрын
@@epicon6 whoosh
@MyManJFKTV3 жыл бұрын
For the longest time, my uncle thought I was just talkin’ shit when I said “THIS GAME CHEATS!”
@frankcoley15373 жыл бұрын
This is why sometimes you had to enable the cheats ... Just to make the game fun. Like the hot spots. Perma Turbo. Special Characters... That made the game more fun. Oh and the dunk from anywhere code.
@marscaleb3 жыл бұрын
I recall my brother showing me that the game was going this. He was leading me by ten points, and he showed how the game wouldn't let him make his shots anymore. He'd stand at one spot, miss, then let me score, then I let him take the same shot from the same spot and it went in.
@mrdgenerate3 жыл бұрын
Bruh everyone who grew up playing madden knew if you were winning... the computer wasnt having that shit. I never knew what it was called b4 today.
@mrdgenerate3 жыл бұрын
If you were winning in madden.... something terrible was about to happen to you. Fumble, flag, something stupid.
@FreeAimDog3 жыл бұрын
why dint you just tell him to play the game to show proof, i know twisted metal cheated because all the AI go after you at the same time but they dont go after each other which the whole point of twisted metal is a car battle royal with different abilities and cars but its not really a battle royal if thy just all shoot at you at the same time now is it? after i knew the game cheated i just exploited it by playing cat and mouse and having them chase me.
@posysdogovych20653 жыл бұрын
F-Zero for SNES was also known for this. As you raced perfectly, the gap between you and the rest would grow, but it would never be allowed to grow too wide. On the map thingy, you could actually see your opponents (as blinking squares) magically transport themselves closer behind you.
@jimmerjammy3 жыл бұрын
Fun fact: the game is programmed so that the Chicago Bulls would always miss a last second shot against the Detroit Pistons.
@EmergencyChannel3 жыл бұрын
Really?
@jimmerjammy3 жыл бұрын
@@EmergencyChannel Yep, the programmer admitted to it
@neumdeneuer18903 жыл бұрын
There is an arstechnica interview this game where this info is disclosed.
@mojgoogle35063 жыл бұрын
Every version ?
@quecreations32443 жыл бұрын
Even dunks?
@5thearth3 жыл бұрын
My brother and I certainly knew about this on the SNES version of the game. One time we decided to see what was the maximum number of points we could score in a game. At first we tried to do it by deliberately giving the ball to one team and letting them constantly take the shots uncontested, but the rubberbanding soon made it impossible to sink anything. By having both teams score alternately, to keep the score even, we were able to go literally twice as high.
@menikmati7893 жыл бұрын
SCIENCE
@jcruz50503 жыл бұрын
So what was the max points u guys could get up to?
@5thearth3 жыл бұрын
@@jcruz5050 it's been decades so I don't really remember, but I think it was around 200 each?
@Nywraper3 жыл бұрын
Thats why this game felt so intense back in the day i was like 7 or 8 i was able to peep that at that age
@Nunya582943 жыл бұрын
False.
@IanSane3 жыл бұрын
When we were kids there was always the cry of "the game's cheating on me!" which you usually took quite serious if you were playing but laughed off as lame excuse-making when you weren't. It's funny that we were right the entire time. As kids the rubber-banding did a good job of tricking us into thinking we were having competitive matches with each other but as adults my brother and I couldn't help notice it. Eventually we determined that the best strategy to defeat the computer was to concentrate on three point shots to build up an early lead and settle for two pointers on the rebound. This was about 10 years ago. Later the Golden State Warriors essentially used this strategy in real life and now prioritizing three's is typical NBA strategy.
@chrisslomba3 жыл бұрын
Same thing happens in NFL Blitz. We call it 'getting Midway'd'. Curious if anyone has done this analysis for that game
@thisiswhatgarbagelookslike38643 жыл бұрын
That would be a good video
@BH-in4nl3 жыл бұрын
I would like to see this. Blitz didn't seem as bad as NBA Jam, but it still made me rage.
@warren99823 жыл бұрын
Blitz was worse, IMO, because scoring happens less often than basketball. If you had the ball up 7 in the 4th quarter, best believe every pass you throw is going to be picked off, and every tackle will cause a fumble. And that's IF the offensive line blocks for you that play!
@Virgonomics20203 жыл бұрын
Got midway'd bro....big facts
@carltasticdrew96333 жыл бұрын
Old MK games in a nutshell
@BlueSpinachPackage3 жыл бұрын
Street Fighter II the CPU also cheats against you, for instance, in the Guile Somersault Kick, the player needs to hold 2 seconds, but the CPU makes the move in a little less time.
@Cardboxx3 жыл бұрын
A guy disasembled sf2 to understand how it runs, and the AI just follows a script. It doesnt even need to charge aything, if the instruction says "Do a flash kick", you get a flash kick, even while working forward(would theorically work during a jump even) If you search "The AI engine sf2platinum" you should find the website I'm talking about, it's pretty cool
@badcp4553 жыл бұрын
Standing flash kicks have botched many of my best runs.
@bradkyrish80583 жыл бұрын
Yep, lame.
@yokotapioka3 жыл бұрын
Don't forget that the CPU also can do a sonic boom while walking forward
@Robert-nl3fd3 жыл бұрын
1.5 seconds
@brianm61173 жыл бұрын
Damn, I remember when I broke this out on the SNES recently it had me screaming and cussing accusing the game of cheating. Looks like I was right all along.
@sladewilson9741 Жыл бұрын
Everyone knew.
@BrunodeSouzaLino3 жыл бұрын
One of the more fascinating botches in that regard is SNES Batman Forever. Due to some programming errors, you can set the difficulty in training mode to more than the game normally has. Since it never clears its own state unless you hard reset, you can enter a scenario where the game is unbeatable. Enemies will always defend flawlessly, also grappling and attacking you on the first frame they can. There's also a countdown timer in one stage which is never reset. If you play the game multiple times and make the time, it's possible to reach a stage where you can get a game over before you get to that stage.
@YoupiMatos23 жыл бұрын
Do you have a link?
@MaySelf3 жыл бұрын
Thats just a bug, not rubber banding
@robotortoise3 жыл бұрын
I bet that a TAS that has a computer player fight against an unbeatable enemy team would be really entertaining to watch!
@Rafa-Silva-Alt3 жыл бұрын
This should be an interesting video, please provide more research sources!
@BrunodeSouzaLino3 жыл бұрын
@@YoupiMatos2 This is something mentioned by PJ and MechaRitcher, which are speedrunners or the game in question. There should be a video on PJ's channel (The Super SNES) about the run which mentions it.
@unclecreepy41853 жыл бұрын
There’s no rubber banding in NBA Jam. Everyone knows that in real life if a team is down 30-0 they can hit any shot from anywhere 3 times in a row.
@dz07403 жыл бұрын
Idk what your talking about but they literally prove it has it...so, naw...
@erich68603 жыл бұрын
@@dz0740 Uncle was just being sarcastic. lol.
@pnut3844able3 жыл бұрын
That's what you get for playing this game alone like a loser. Co-op or nothing at all.
@dz07403 жыл бұрын
@@pnut3844able no one said anything about single or multi and it happens regardless sooooo lmao why are aggressive in the internet so late at night??...🤔
@SayAhh3 жыл бұрын
Everyone turns into Steph Curry.
@retropuffer29863 жыл бұрын
Makes me wonder how many quarters we lost for arcade machines that cheated.
@shroomologist3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't worry about that. It's not like it was unusual for the game difficulty to be cranked to obscene levels by default anyway lol
@YoursTrulyTeeHee3 жыл бұрын
??? Practically every arcade game is designed to make you lose quickly lol
@Cuzjudd3 жыл бұрын
But did you have fun
@jonathaningram81573 жыл бұрын
@@shroomologist like the first street fighter
@flipsidelimited65603 жыл бұрын
Mortal Kombat pretty read your controller inputs and Street Fighter allowed the CPU to skip fighting frames
@danielx57403 жыл бұрын
This game still looks good to this day..hats off to the creaters.
@metasynaptic94513 жыл бұрын
When I played the arcade version in the 90s, I always tried to stay even with the CPU until 4th quarter, then run away with a lead. The CPU usually didn't catch up.
@whaddyathink9493 жыл бұрын
This game was the first one i remember upping arcade prices from one quarter to "2 to start, one to continue." That was just to play the first quarter of the game. 5 quarters to actually finish a single basketball game!
@dark12ain3 жыл бұрын
Daaamn
@redsoxu5713 жыл бұрын
Actually, the game menu adjustments you can make from inside the cabinet (the menu shown in the video that allowed for CPU assistance to be turned off) could also change the pricing. I don't remember the options, but it wasn't fixed pricing. I bought an original cabinet for my brother, and on the default options it's just a single quarter per quarter, I think. If I have a chance I'll try to double check!
@alejandroalzatesanchez3 жыл бұрын
Rubber banding exist* The blue shell: I'm inevitable
@QuadinarosLS3 жыл бұрын
Thank God there's no blue shell in Super Mario Kart.
@SKILLA-lu6xm3 жыл бұрын
the lightning bolt : im highly probable,if your 3,2 or 1 to last🤣
@WrestlingWithGaming3 жыл бұрын
I knew that there was quite a bit of rubber banding in NBA Jam but I had no idea that they had programmed in so many scenarios to use it in. I think the rubber banding is one of the main things that made this game so much fun to sink quarters into with your friends. Fantastic and in depth video as always!
@MarcoGPUtuber3 жыл бұрын
I don't care if I win. I just like making the glass shatter and net burst into flames.
@Robert-nl3fd3 жыл бұрын
Win or lose, I gotta bust the glass
@mattnova183 жыл бұрын
I always expect to win. I've played this game way too much lol. Playing against the computer with a friend is the best imo.
@unvaxxeddoomerlife67884 ай бұрын
Yeah man, it was like doing a fatality in Mortal Kombat, it was the whole reason I played.
@samanthagwinn28303 жыл бұрын
"Is it the shoes!?" No, it's software programming.
@andrearedburn73453 жыл бұрын
MONSTER PROGRAAAAM!
@servHis2213 жыл бұрын
Underrated comment!
@Lobothemainman233 жыл бұрын
Gary Payton and one of the programmers has the verison with Michael Jordan in it. It has still never been rom dumped.
@v3ck1n3 жыл бұрын
Not yet, but I believe there's a good chance it will be dumped in our lifetime
@LoneHero23 жыл бұрын
I just want the one with Matthew Perry in it.
@kernelpickle3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I’d even be down with a ROM hack that puts Jordan in there, and one that puts Shaq into TE. Also, I swear there were some other roster differences that I recall from the SNES version that weren’t in the arcade version, and I’d like to have Muggsy Bogues as an option in the arcade version.
@DolphinPilot3 жыл бұрын
@@kernelpickle There are absolutely some rom hacks with Jordan in it. Check out the Old School Edition and the Double Z Mod!
@Lobothemainman233 жыл бұрын
@@kernelpickle If I remember right one of the SNES versions had Shaq in it, but newer cartridges removed him.
@ChicagoRetroGamer3 жыл бұрын
Oh man, this is absolutely perfect timing, as I just did a longplay of this game last Friday! And yes, the computer totally cheats you when you are playing the better teams later in the game or when you are up! There was one point where I missed like 4 straight turbo lay-ups/ dunks because I was up from like 15! Also, the computer is WAY faster than you at times. Cheers, and this is an instant classic video!
@bettoperu3 жыл бұрын
People who played in arcades machines knows it. But its great to see how it was programmed.
@badcp4553 жыл бұрын
Other versions, also.
@jimcrelm94783 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be surprised to see games in the near future using neural networks/AI/ML to maximise play time or micro-transactions purchased. Android games could even analyse the player's facial expressions to help detect tilt (in gambling parlance) to maximise revenue even further. They're already analysing facial expressions in order to choose which ads to display to Uber passengers. The difference being (with AI/ML versus programmer choice as in the video) that there is no human analysis of *why* the player is playing longer/spending more, the algorithm just finds the optimum point.
@Einar7303 жыл бұрын
No
@eternalgamers103 жыл бұрын
@@jimcrelm9478 ATI filed a similar patent I think. with there SBMM
@AJ-xv7oh3 жыл бұрын
Most modern online games are rigged. FIFA being a perfect example.
@IoRobot_983 жыл бұрын
You should see the rubberbanding of GT Sport in the campaign mode... the "second" car, the one that is actually predetermined to be a real competitor (yeah, only one is a ""real competitor""...) gets such a boost in speed that most of the times the car can't even handle and ends up off track in most corners, it's hilarious and sad at the same time... 😂😂😂
@Azuris1903 жыл бұрын
Lol that really sounds funny
@ZygalStudios3 жыл бұрын
Me and my brother would get really competitive over NBA hangtime growing up. Funny enough, he's also a programmer now and when we played this again recently, we talked about this exact concept of rubber banding, since it's also present. One of my favorite videos of yours, this is awesome!
@huuuuuumpy3 жыл бұрын
I swear I saw way more hangtime machines than I ever did for jam. Hearing how big of a success it was in this video was pretty surprising.
@carlossosa13593 жыл бұрын
This does not have anything to with hangtime
@ZygalStudios3 жыл бұрын
@@carlossosa1359 No kidding... but the same dev team from the original NBA Jam did NBA Hangtime. The game mechanics are very similar.
@mysonandme84243 жыл бұрын
@@huuuuuumpy it's way, way...way more surprising that you saw more Hangtime machines than Jam.
@brokenman583 жыл бұрын
This explains why at times a dunk would fail everytime when you were kicking the coms ass
@utahhoopsfreak86483 жыл бұрын
Boooooiiiiiiinnnnng
@clintsaines92742 ай бұрын
Yep. They always did that.
@mrnicktoyou3 жыл бұрын
I remember playing Daytona USA in the arcade and even though I drove a manual transmission (which had a higher top speed) the opponent cars would still catch me on the straights like I was stuck in 3rd gear when I was in the lead. Very annoying.
@Geforcefly3 жыл бұрын
Yes, very annoying. The cars behind go at least 20% faster than their indicated speed when they're behind. For example, a great lap in this state on the Beginner track can go by in under 15 seconds.
@johns7833 жыл бұрын
funny, my friends and I referred to rubberbanding as "Daytona" when we were younger when we didn't have any other word that we knew to explain the come from behind phenomena we were witnessing in games.
@bearing_aficionado3 жыл бұрын
If this is the one I am thinking of, you can go through the pits at full speed on the last lap. It was a shortcut if done right would put you in first place at the right time to win
@viperdemonz-jenkins3 жыл бұрын
@@bearing_aficionado won so many races doing that trick.
@brgulker3 жыл бұрын
I will never forget the first time I saw this game in the arcade. Totally mind blowing.
@LonSeidman3 жыл бұрын
My roommates and I always had epically close games on the Playstation version. We had a visit from the RA one night asking us to keep our noise down :)
@eng3d3 жыл бұрын
what the heck is a RA anyways?.
@33jtm333 жыл бұрын
@@eng3d Residential Advisor. In on-campus accommodation at university they are a support person also tasked with monitoring and dealing with day to day issues.
@JimmyJoeMcGurl3 жыл бұрын
Apparently everyone had epically close games 😒
@traviscunningham_13 жыл бұрын
Hey Lon! Two of my favorite content creators!
@greenmaillink3 жыл бұрын
Plot twist, the RA was only trying to get in a game.
@MarcusTheDarkness3 жыл бұрын
Bruh, I never knew being on fire allowed you to goal tend!
@lavon65beamon3 жыл бұрын
DAMN LMAO
@qfmarsh643 жыл бұрын
You can't. The basket still counts for your opponent, but you don't lose your on-fireness.
@elg30power3 жыл бұрын
you can goaltend buzzard beating shots too which is how i beat the cheating computer
@devaughnsalter62643 жыл бұрын
@@qfmarsh64 When on fire, you can goaltend to your heart's content. There is no penalty when on fire.
@qfmarsh643 жыл бұрын
@@devaughnsalter6264 I dumped a small country's GDP into this game at the arcade. Goaltending still gives points to your opponent. Maybe they changed it in later versions or on consoles.
@ErdrickHero3 жыл бұрын
That's the first time I've heard rubber-banding defined in such a way. I've always known rubber-banding as hidden AI-only mechanics in racing games that keeps opponents within a certain distance of each other - such as increased (or decreased) stats adjusted on the fly. I've always known player-interactable catch-up mechanics such as Mario Kart's Bullet Bill or CTR's Warp Ball as just that - catch-up mechanics.
@grythm3 жыл бұрын
No, he's right. That's how rubber-banding has been defined in video game design for... well, about as long as video game design has existed. It's just that racing games are the most common and obvious example of it.
@baddoomguy19863 жыл бұрын
Great video outlining specific aspects of the rubber-banding. You can beat the computer almost every single time by shoving like there's no tomorrow and passing mid-shooting-motion. Get a 4-point lead and only shoot 2's after. Keep shoving off-ball to make CPU passes fail. To protect from 4th quarter CPU quick-shoves, pass backwards immediately upon inbound, turbo forward-down (shove incoming defender), and pass back to yourself quickly; Run the fastbreak from there. Only shoot 2's (no dunks) in the 4th quarter, and follow/rebound all shots. Tap shoot while in the air after rebounding for a put-back layup. NBA Jam, NBA Jam TE, and NBA Hangtime are 100% beatable.
@darkobelisk40763 жыл бұрын
That music takes me back to Timezone on George Street Sydney a very long time ago. This game was damn impressive and my buddies were obsessed with basketball it was such a good time to be alive. Hip hop, basketball, friends, occasional stabbings and getting rolled for our Jordans in Camperdown, but other than that it was GOOOD TIMES.
@nos4me3 жыл бұрын
Oh man I fuckin miss that place!!
@bewsket3 жыл бұрын
Occasional stabbings fml
@antonskor81272 жыл бұрын
@@bewsket It was real back in the day bruh
@christopheroconnor26323 жыл бұрын
"YOU BRING THE PEANUT BUTTER AND I'LL BRING THE JAAAAAMMMMM"
@Kings_Gambit3 жыл бұрын
I stopped play the Need for Speed games a long time ago, when I realised how obviously and how significantly the AI cheated. I don't remember which title it was, but certainly before Most Wanted. The AI could wipe out in an astonishing crash, and be back behind seconds later. It was impossible to lap even the slowest cars and no amount of jostling amongst themselves ever upset the AI behind the player. I liked the feel of the games but when I spotted how terribly the AI cheated I dropped the franchise like a stone. Not fun.
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
and in Underground 2, the machine always played to make a particular car win the race, it was so obvious to the point of being disgusting.
@Sheepy0073 жыл бұрын
Thats called rubberbanding and sadly is still to prevelant in modern racing games.
@m-seb3 жыл бұрын
The worst example of rubberbanding in the NFS games are the speedtrap races of Most Wanted and Carbon, if you're ahead with a considerable gap the AI cars will just go through the speedtraps at impossible speeds
@augakem3 жыл бұрын
Mmm, I can smell that S2000 from Underground 1. Runs like a train on its tracks while speeding 400MPH with no flinch, damn bastard.
@BrunodeSouzaLino3 жыл бұрын
The AI in those games is largely based on your car upgrades. The more performance upgrades you have, the more the AI cheats.
@davideaston83143 жыл бұрын
Just hearing that opening music still gives me awesome chills... loved this game on my SNES!
@jmike20393 жыл бұрын
Great video as always, would love to see you tackle Mortal Kombats AI cheapness. It seems the input by the user has no delay time for the AI to react, rather as the input is executed the ai immediately reacts. I learned this the hard way once I got into the arcade collecting hobby.
@monstersinthecity3 жыл бұрын
Nothing new. King of fighters does this with their bosses ever since the fight with rugal in 94
@Verseofvice3 жыл бұрын
Ai Input reading. MK11 brutal difficulty you'll see this the most.
@benvasquez29642 жыл бұрын
Yes I have noticed this. They know your every move lol
@caiusmadison29963 жыл бұрын
Fun Fact: Every single Bally/Midway game cheated, HARD, against you.
@NotMyActualName_3 жыл бұрын
If you thought arcade games weren’t cheating you weren’t paying attention. Their goal was, first and foremost, to get you to pump in quarters.
@williamtracz11153 жыл бұрын
Especially MK II
@nekrovulpes3 жыл бұрын
Real shame honestly, they made a lot of great games, but some of them are almost unplayable today because the AI is so flat out scummy.
@mcbain73923 жыл бұрын
Endurance Jade from UMK3....I still have nightmares.
@eb9373 жыл бұрын
@@mcbain7392 Yup. Her damn invincibility move WHILE RUNNING has fucked many players over.
@Ubebread13 жыл бұрын
That feeling when the CPU beats with a full court buzzer beater shot.
@gamble7778883 жыл бұрын
Happens all the damn time lol.
@228allday3 жыл бұрын
I still remember going to the skating rink playing this game back in 05 when I was 11
@w1403 жыл бұрын
Why would anyone put a dislike to MVG??? He’s an awesome guy, never heard a bad thing from him
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
Probably fans of the pistons.
@DenkyManner2 жыл бұрын
The rubber banding turns NBA Jam into a theme park ride more than a video game. It entertained and wowed in arcades but if you try to take it seriously you run into that classic Midway carny mentality that views every customer as a mark to be exploited for every last penny.
@RostovII3 жыл бұрын
I remember of the "catch up" mechanics in NFS Most Wanted, that would make CPU opponents stay close to your car. You could switch it on or off in quick races but in career mode it was always on. Because of that, In NFS Most Wanted I would consider Earl (Blacklist 9) as possibly the hardest boss in the game. The combination of the track you were in and the "catch up" mechanic made it so that he would often overtake you in the last stretches of his races, greatly reducing your chances of winning. I believe people quit the game because of him.
@VexAcer3 жыл бұрын
The original NFSU probably had the worst rubber banding ever. It specifically rears its head in about 2 of the last races in the game that are 6/7 laps long. You essentially have to race perfectly throughout the long ass course or else it'll be impossible to catch up because the rubber banding only works one way for some reason.
@kenrickeason3 жыл бұрын
I remember Mario Kart 64 was bad at rubber banding.. You can be #1 and all of a sudden some of the racers will catch up or throw that crazy ass Blue Shell.. Don't get me started on Diddy Kong Racing when you race the bosses in Adventure Mode..
@Brawltendo3 жыл бұрын
Pretty much all the NFS games of that era had some really bad rubberbanding, along with some other racing games at the time. The worst of them was definitely Underground 1 though just because of the length of some of the races. You could be on lap 6/6 and all of a sudden the AI rubberbands past you at the very end. Despite all that it’s still my favorite NFS though lol.
@TheRetarp3 жыл бұрын
Underground, Most Wanted, and Pro Street were all quite obvious with the cheating as the game progressed. In Pro Street I did too good at the drag racing / wheelies early in the game and the computer adjustment made it literally impossible to beat the game. Perfect driving with all upgrades available and I would still loose every time. In Most Wanted I "cheated" the game by taking the Lexus and maxxed out handling / brakes but left the engine stock. I could drive around for as long as I wanted and escape the police with ease. Made some of the challenges far too easy. Upgrade the engine and whew buddy the cops suddenly turn crazy aggressive and it's game over. In underground towards the end of the game I was getting fed up. As an experiement I just sat at the starting line for 30-40 seconds before leaving. The rubber banding was so obvious I could still catch up within a lap or so which means the cars were driving soooo slow then magically can out pace me when I catch up! IIRC I used this trick to beat a few of the races near the end of the game. Same with purposely going way too fast in places using nitrous to skid around the outside wall which would cause the computer cars to drive way too fast and wreck in hilarious ways allowing you to win.
@nicholasvinen3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, when I saw the title of this video I immediately thought of car racing games. Not just NFS but also project Gotham racing. I definitely quit playing games over this because it was so stupid how you could get way ahead of the AI drivers and then they would suddenly appear behind you and catch up at impossible speeds, making winning the last few races extremely frustrating.
@kriskeilman20873 жыл бұрын
This game was so awesome. Before they had tournaments, we would play all night long in the arcade. I played once for for 6 straight hours without losing.
@104d_3rr0r_vince3 жыл бұрын
Like the "catch up" switch of Daytona USA.
@Withthetrend09093 жыл бұрын
Daaayyyyyytonaaaaaaaaaa
@VincentFischer3 жыл бұрын
My family literally is in pieces because of this game. I'm still not talking to my siblings because they played so unfair. We even had to go to anger managment and family therapy for a period of time only because of this garbage game. Downloading the ROM right now...
@T1Slam3 жыл бұрын
Vincent, is that you??? It's me, your sister, Estella! I'm having little money problems - would you help me out, bro?
@VincentFischer3 жыл бұрын
@@T1Slam First admit that the game was rigged and I'm not the worst player in the world.
@T1Slam3 жыл бұрын
@@VincentFischer yes i always thought that I'm glad i can actually tell you now well now help me with money be a good brother
@VincentFischer3 жыл бұрын
@@T1Slam Gladly. Also I'm so happy the sexchange worked out. I knew it there was something odd about you and you were overcompensating
@T1Slam3 жыл бұрын
@@VincentFischer yeah, you know, it was extremely complicated, had to think a lot, had to ruminate, had to contemplate before making this final decision. Remembering you and your cheerful, helping attitude what actually was that got me through the tough spot. Now, I'm still struggling financially would you be a kind brother and help out with a small loan???
@Cracko2983 жыл бұрын
Love these deeper game analysis videos. Keep the great work up.
@HUYI13 жыл бұрын
It entertains my geeky brain, love it 😊😊
@carlossosa13593 жыл бұрын
Shits sad videos games aren't real life
@relishcakes45253 жыл бұрын
The wife says I’m not allowed to play this game anymore…things get loud.
@Robert-nl3fd3 жыл бұрын
😂😆😆😆😆😆
@yogxoth19593 жыл бұрын
"the wife"
@carlossosa13593 жыл бұрын
Your an adult
@relishcakes45253 жыл бұрын
@@carlossosa1359 the joke. You.
@mattb96643 жыл бұрын
We knew it actively cheated against the player, and now we know how it cheated!
@mattb1543 жыл бұрын
Indeed! Code dive videos are my favourite, there really aren't many people who can present that kind of information so well.
@Bob_Smith193 жыл бұрын
This is why I hated playing the arcade game. On the SNES I didn’t care.
@phantomfoxx1513 жыл бұрын
Absolutely love the in-depth of the rubber banding. Notices this in game but didn't understand it. Thank you for explaining it.
@ravagingwolverine3 жыл бұрын
NBA Jam arcade was really quite the spectacle that even watching the game's attract mode was a lot of fun. Midway really nailed the presentation on it. I'm not against rubber banding as a concept, but NBA Jam might be a bit too aggressive with that. In recent years, I've really noticed different methods of rubber banding and cheating in various games, mostly arcade games. Street Fighter 2 is notorious for a few things, but the one that sticks out to me is that in certain fights, such as against M Bison, the player's button press will trigger a CPU attack that has priority. In X-Men arcade, Konami tries to give bosses a free hit on the player. How it works is when the boss is almost defeated, the game turns off hit detection briefly on what should be a hit, so that the player is likely to be in the middle of a combo with one of the hits not registering which leaves the player open for a counter hit. In that game, there's a good chance that hit will force the player onto their next life or to have to continue, especially feeling that they're so close to beating the boss. I have observed this many times. I'm not sure if Konami altered the damage amount at that point. For a long time before I figured this out, I noticed I would have to continue way more often at the end of stages, even when I was being careful. I've since adjusted my tactics to not use combos when the boss is almost finished. That's how I avoid the counter hit when the game tries that trick, which it always does. I still love the game.
@DeviantmindOG3 жыл бұрын
This is sooo much nostalgia. Thank you for diving into the code and giving us this insane rundown of the deep inner workings
@doha0573 жыл бұрын
Look into Street fighter 2 rubber banding, CPU has always been the filthiest cheat lol
@poeticassassin46993 жыл бұрын
Mortal Kombat 2 is definitely guilty of that.
@doha0573 жыл бұрын
@@poeticassassin4699 MK classics are the worst of them all, they probably had a dedicated engine called rubber banding engine lol
@nickwright083 жыл бұрын
Mortal Kombat 2 I honestly thought a character attacked me before the announcer said "fight" and I couldn't do anything
@SKILLA-lu6xm3 жыл бұрын
yip.Theyd pull frame perfect moves and add frames when they were losing🤦🏾♂️ felt so cheated
@ObscureStuff1013 жыл бұрын
Guile and other charge characters could do their special moves without charge when controled by CPU
@frozyre78543 жыл бұрын
This actually sheds some light a little on how I feel like I'm cheated out of a win in sports games. Crap like this. It's like in the console sports games, in the NES baseball ones. You try your hardest to play defense, score runs .etc but the A.I is programmed in a way that, they'll get your hits 95% of the time with a small window of error. They'll always manage to strike you out and you can barely squeeze a home run or two. Until it's their turn and they get batting rallies or scoring home runs.
@SWOLEVIKING3 жыл бұрын
I was just playing this yesterday those bastards!
@hyakugame3 жыл бұрын
what
@edchampagne18063 жыл бұрын
@@hyakugame the game dumbass
@CyberDragon10K3 жыл бұрын
That announcer is legendary, even on the SNES conversion. Unforgettable.
@rcward3 жыл бұрын
A baby hook!
@mysonandme84243 жыл бұрын
Still sounds great on the two NBA JAM games I got from the app store. Sounds a tad better on the arcade version but, imo, the play is better on the updated version.
@mobama57823 жыл бұрын
The programmer of this game helped write a book about it and it’s full of super interesting things like the bulls missing last second shots against the pistons super interesting and would highly recommend
@BrianJones-wk8cx3 жыл бұрын
Excellent overview! I hadn’t noticed the release of the source code-looking forward to checking it out for myself!
@connorkiss26143 жыл бұрын
I’m not sure if you heard but the creator of BSNES passed away. I’d love to see you create a retrospective on their work
@CoreDreamStudios3 жыл бұрын
I sorta knew him via #nesdev on EFnet and when I heard about his passing due to intense bullying/harassment, I lost it.
@HUYI13 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was so disgusted with the way he was treated as I have bipolar depression, I can only imagine how bad his mental health was at his last moments!
@HUYI13 жыл бұрын
@@Y0URGRANDMA did he prey on young girls or anything that was degradory?
@HUYI13 жыл бұрын
@@abadenoughdude300 took his own life unfortunately
@abadenoughdude3003 жыл бұрын
@@Y0URGRANDMA damn...that's messed up.
@markschwartz99053 жыл бұрын
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON MORTAL KOMBAT (1, 2, or 3) for arcade, and make it just like this video. I ALWAYS wanted to see how the computer became immune to the same attacks if you didn't change your strategy, or how it would know your attack before it actually showed up on screen (and blocked it just at the right time). This would absolutely make my day! And keep up the amazing work you do. You are a true legend in this scene, and I absolutely love your channel!
@Gorilla_Jones3 жыл бұрын
Mario Karts rubber banding has destroyed friendships!
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
and on Mario Party
@Robert-nl3fd3 жыл бұрын
Wario stadium and the "lightning ⚡⚡ gap"
@FPGC2 жыл бұрын
I remember playing basketball outside and shouting "He's On Fire" every time I dunked or shoot the ball through the hoop. Fun memories
@TheRogueWolf3 жыл бұрын
We knew the game cheated in the arcades; the infuriating thing was how _blatant_ it got!
@NeutralGravity3 жыл бұрын
Rubber banding exists in the actual NBA through refereeing
@dr.spaceman91933 жыл бұрын
And they said NBA Jam wasn’t ‘realistic’
@thehylianloach94733 жыл бұрын
Your profile pic is terrifying
@muccisebastian93002 жыл бұрын
Well i guess it didnt work for the GSW championship they destroyed their opponents
@dahgameps4322 жыл бұрын
And magnetic balls.
@SHGames973 жыл бұрын
I know I'm late to the party but congrats on over half a million subscribers!
@Desolate11343 жыл бұрын
F-Zero is old rubber-banding I remember, no matter how flawlessly and quickly you raced your opponents were always basically a set distance behind you.
@rayt13483 жыл бұрын
Midway seemed to be the king of the cheap ass AI in the arcade scene in the 90s
@rayt13483 жыл бұрын
@@RetroJack what was cheaper then, am I crazy for thinking midway had cheating AI?
@HUYI13 жыл бұрын
Mortal Kombat arcade is another example of how bad the ai was!
@FrankMilanese3 жыл бұрын
The creators must love Dennis Rodman, I made him score 77 points in a game
@XavierFunklestien3 жыл бұрын
Modded a ds after one of those videos. NBA jam is the only game I play. Dunking hoops while dropping poops
@nicktronson29773 жыл бұрын
Bars.
@nicktronson29773 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah this is unrelated to nba jam, but I had the DS to play on the toilet also and I let my younger cousin Sion use it and he handed it back to me with Tetris DS and he told me he beat my high score. I NEVER cared about high scores in ANY game until then. Anyways one night I had to take a dump at like 2am and I had Tetris DS on the toilet and I played 1 game on the toilet and THE SUN came up while I was still playing that game from 2am and my ass fell asleep sitting on the toilet for so long. You know how when your foot falls asleep? Well my butt was asleep. But I thrashed Sions score. Cuz after level 20 tetris ds stays at the same speed and it is quite forgiving cyz you can still manuever the blocks for a good amount of time even if they hit the bottom, unlike tetris for NES. This cool story bro happened like 2005. It was like yesterday.
@mime37613 жыл бұрын
@@nicktronson2977 sounds like my average day playing Meteos (DS) pretty much around the same time, 2005 / 2006 I believe. Meteos was just incredibly addictive.
@parnet3 жыл бұрын
I loved this game growing up, played it more on the SNES/SEGA megadrive than anything else. keep up the good work!
@fieldguy3163 жыл бұрын
I always had a feeling the game was cheating me now it's confirmed thanks much for the info
@benvasquez29642 жыл бұрын
I remember those days. It was the first official cabinet from NBA that was licensed with their logo. It was released the same time Mortal Kombat was released. Great Video and never knew this game did that.
@commanderkeen37873 жыл бұрын
A lot of "rubber banding" still going on in FIFA and eFootball games
@LeoJay3 жыл бұрын
I saw a video about Fifa's scripting and that shit was insane lol i play PES and we have the same annoying stuff.
@truindividual Жыл бұрын
I grew up playing NBA Jam TE on Genesis, still love it. When I found the Double Z Mod that had Shaq, MJ and so much more on it, I fell in love again.
@Gorilla_Jones3 жыл бұрын
As a Knicks fan I can tell you that the rubber banding and losing at the buzzer is totally realistic.
@mageloki77043 жыл бұрын
instead of getting ahead early and allowing the computer to come back, I have found that if you stay close until the start of the fourth quarter, then get one of your players on fire, you can get a nice lead and there isn't enough time for the rubber band to bounce back.... just my experience
@drumandbass4ever6933 жыл бұрын
Fire eventually runs out without the other team scoring.
@zumba.c3 жыл бұрын
"Alright, that's enough. You're winning by 70"
@Drforrester313 жыл бұрын
Even the computer stops having a good time
@johnclon17423 жыл бұрын
If you score 4 times in a row with the player on fire, you then lose the fire.
@jacobwilliams52714 ай бұрын
My little brother use to beat me in this game sometimes, he had no idea wtf he was doing, but the game wuld keep the score close until the final seconds I remember one time, I had Chicago and he had Detroit, once I got up by 10 points, all of a sudden Bill Lambier was hitting 3s like Steph Curry , and Scottie Pippen couldn't make a layup.
@SupremeRuleroftheWorld3 жыл бұрын
i noticed the rubberbanding back then very well. i refused to play it pretty fast. it was just to aggravating.
@astrosteve3 жыл бұрын
This video didn't really mention the SNES version beyond saying it existed, but that also had an option to turn the computer assistance off and I swear ir made a huge difference. I literally did not ever lose to the computer if I had assistance off. I was undefeated. A few years ago, I setup my old SNES for retro gaming, put NBA Jam in and lost the first game because I hadn't played since the 90s... it's like, damn it, I'm not undefeated anymore.
@unclecreepy41853 жыл бұрын
The good old days when Washington were the Bullets to reflect the ridiculously high murder rate of DC.
@livefreeprintguns3 жыл бұрын
Damn homie, no love for The Boston Celtics in those rubber-banding byte hacks. I feel personally attacked.
@wohlhabendermanager3 жыл бұрын
7:05 Yep. That was the first time I noticed the cheating of the game. The computer would always hit the buzzer beater in a close game. And of course I noticed the rubber banding in Mario Kart as well. When you hit the driver that usually comes in second with a shell, they would be able to drive really fast all of a sudden, to get back into second position.
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
not only that, if you're on the last two places, your chances to get red shells, thunder, bullet bills and your speed are increased, if you're on first place your car is slower and you'll be cursed with a bunch of bananas.
@sammythehamster90933 жыл бұрын
There's the blue shell which only targets the race leader. I knew why items like lightning, bullet bill never showed up when in high lead.
@omegarugal92833 жыл бұрын
thats not the "core" of mario kart rubbenband ai, thats an expected behavior, if you are in last place you need more lighting and stars, if you are first place you need bananas and turbos to keep yourself head
@JohnSmith-xf1zu3 жыл бұрын
It also speeds up the CPU when you are ahead. Also, MK64, enemies don't suffer the full animation when far away when hit by red shells or upside-down- question blocks. They just stop, but then can go again right away without the 2-3 seconds of delay. It gets really ridiculous when the CPU is going as fast as a player with a golden mushroom. I swear I've had that happen multiple times on MK64.
@wohlhabendermanager3 жыл бұрын
@@JohnSmith-xf1zu "It also speeds up the CPU when you are ahead" Same happens in F-Zero. No matter how good you are and how many shortcuts a track has, the CPU is always right behind you.
@magicmulder3 жыл бұрын
The one game where I loved “rubberbanding” was Homeworld (and HW2). Since a fight in one level could leave you with anywhere between your full fleet and just a few ships, the next level would adjust so you would neither need perfect play to win the game nor have it too easy if you play well. A nice side effect was that by editing savegames you could give yourself a huuuuge fleet and then expect an equally huge computer fleet, so you got epic space battles with hundreds of ships.
@JamesElterman3 жыл бұрын
Great video. I've been waiting 25 years for it!
@Grandeurious3 жыл бұрын
I F'n knew it! 😂
@ericstaples72203 жыл бұрын
You gotta admit, this makes it more fun for people of different skill levels to play together
@andree19913 жыл бұрын
Now do Mortal Kombat and Street fighter 2. They are the kings of Arcade cheating.
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
unblockables, Guille's whole moveset without charging, frame skips, SFII is a bastard.
@catalinbadalan44633 жыл бұрын
@@javierortiz82 And CPU always throws you.. :)
@omegarugal92833 жыл бұрын
zangief pulling you with a piledriver from half the screen away
@javierortiz823 жыл бұрын
@@omegarugal9283 tbh you can do it too, but pulling it off is a ridiculous feat. But I remember another one, Zangief, Blanka and Honda taking 75% of your healthbar in a single grab. Also, the cpu recovering from stun in a single frame.
@damonwillis36723 жыл бұрын
Fighting Akuma in SSF2Turbo is hell on earth.
@Miika.v Жыл бұрын
I hate rubber banding in any games, I hated it in need for speed to back on the ps1. This is my first time watching a video of yours and it was really good I subscribed, also it helps you are an Aussie like me lol
@GillisDaKid3 жыл бұрын
If this is the case I guess Mortal Kombat code was even more aggressive.
@Zerst2 жыл бұрын
It's not just NBA Jam that does this; a lot of single player arcade games have very involved dynamic difficulty systems. Having disassembled a couple, one could probably do an entire series on them because of how varied they are. One of the most notable examples is a shmup called Battle Garegga, which gradually increases the difficulty of the game across a 15-million-degree scale(!). Each individual action you take (like picking up powerups or firing shots) contributes a small amount to the game-long difficulty counter. Each character contributes to the counter differently (with a strength/scoring potential/difficulty tradeoff), and tricks and strategies to minimize the counter throughout the game have become a core part of becoming skilled at the game.
@Otis1513 жыл бұрын
Now that the source code is available, could you remove all the rubber banding and recompile a playable version without it?
@AlexDiaz-gw5ov3 жыл бұрын
Yes. I bet someone, somewhere already has.
@omegarugal92833 жыл бұрын
i think he needs the proper compiler too, not just the source
@Vitalflea3 жыл бұрын
@@omegarugal9283 he doesn’t need either. You can patch the binaries.
@nexusyang48323 жыл бұрын
That would be cool if someone can patch the ROM and update those assistance lookup tables to zero and not impact the rest of the room too much.
@SKILLA-lu6xm3 жыл бұрын
still do it,just not ass blatant.makes for good game
@tmtmtlsml3 жыл бұрын
I audibly gasped when I saw the gameplay of Super Android pinball. I haven't seen or played that game in probably 24 years and the memories instantly flooded back
@SaintMecha3 жыл бұрын
2:10 Rubber banding was the thing that ruined MotorStorm 1/2 (RIP) for me
@ronski40593 жыл бұрын
I use to play NBA Jam all the time as a kid. I played hundreds of games without losing. I think the key to winning is getting really good at knocking down your opponents. The more you knock them down, the slower it makes them, and the more opportunities you get to get a steal and score
@bravoxray12803 жыл бұрын
I feel like MLB the Show does this now. I love the game but there’s always a point where the AI starts to crank out HRs or leave me with an inning where I couldn’t stop them from scoring 4 runs. And I’m just playing franchise! Leave me alone. :)
@spectralthundr95253 жыл бұрын
It absolutely does. It used to be subtle with the Show, the last few versions it's pretty obvious that when the CPU wants a home run or hit it doesn't matter where the ball is pitched in the zone even with a perfect meter release, it's getting hit.
@theepicslayer7sss1013 жыл бұрын
in the PS2 era of Need For Speed, the rubber banding is not just on the car speeds and handling but the actual traffic is spawned and controlled to accelerate and break and be at the apex of any turn you attempt or to turn in front of you causing crashes! when you know, you aim for a head light on the side of the turn and turn the opposite side at the last moment causing them to freak out trying to go in revers to hit you but the traffic rules stops them from turning around so the reverse light are flashing like crazy with the breaks and the tires turns left and right as they try to undo the turn.
@PancakeInu3 жыл бұрын
Next do how Mario Kart cheats against you.
@RetroJack3 жыл бұрын
That video's already been done many times.
@PancakeInu3 жыл бұрын
@@RetroJack Link?
@PancakeInu3 жыл бұрын
@Jabroni Destroyer Link?
@PancakeInu3 жыл бұрын
@Jabroni Destroyer So you don't have any links.
@PancakeInu3 жыл бұрын
@Jabroni DestroyerYou still don't have any links and you never will. You don't decide what videos MVG should make.
@lcb40823 жыл бұрын
Biggest problem it was missing Jordan, Shaq, and a few other big name stars
@Valientlink3 жыл бұрын
interestingly, hookshots (holding up or down around the foul line) seem to have the highest percent chance to go in if you're tied or way ahead. Whereas dunks would usually bounce off or easily get blocked and normal shots would miss. That's what makes no dunk stats good, layups have a good success rate