How (Not) To Tell a Meaningful Zombie Story

[@LikeStoriesofOld]

What's your favorite zombie story? Let me know below! And if you like my work, you can support me on Patreon and get some cool rewards: www.patreon.com/LikeStoriesofOld

[@dbix11]

28 weeks later was good, showed the hubris of science trying to control a virus....hey wait a minute

[@LikeStoriesofOld]

@Christian Linneberg I always add a list in the description, and try to answer as many comments as possible from people looking for specific clips at specific timestamps, hope that helps!

[@citaprevia9833]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYiZnYylaqaAr9E the Surge trailor : how they will collapse Society for its reboot !! using the Scapegaot !! they will use Dew´s (directed energy weapons) and LSD/Project blue beam for full effects! --- reclaim the *Scapegoat* or be lost in fake is.Real and Love is not pretending !!

[@JohnHolmes3.0]

For me, it is the book World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War. I think it perfectly captures so many aspects of humanity and its response to crises. I was glad to see you thought the same of it.

[@yhsa]

WWZ book.... it's realistic and very entertaining

[@brunomarkovic6651]

my father is a huge movie lover and we used to often sit down talking about films, what makes a story well written, and what genre is the most ambitious to make. Unfortunately, he doesn't like horrors at all, but, when it comes to zombies, he always had an interesting yet simple way of reassuming what is that makes them so effective and scary and, basically, an exception among fictional monsters. He says "what's scarier than an animal? A human who behaves like an animal"

[@hungsolo28]

Humans are animals.

[@LucasN00b]

@@hungsolo28 he meant like a wild animal, we are "not wild" (forgot the word)

[@brunomarkovic6651]

@@hungsolo28 yeah it'd have been more accurate to translate to "beast"… we're not english natives

[@brunomarkovic6651]

@@LucasN00b also, if you think about it, zombies are products of our deep rooted fear of crowds and social loneliness. The idea of being one vs everybody, and the anxiety of being overwhelmed by a mass of people. One zombie in the dark is stupid and isn't scary, while a thousand zombies in a square at daylight are a hellish nightmare.

[@LucasN00b]

@@brunomarkovic6651 yes, it's also about the fear of not being able to trust anyone, the fear of your family turning into monsters trying to eat you.

[@hakenbacker]

The best zombie story has to be World War Z, the book obviously, it is one of the few story's where humanity win, it talks about how no matter how bad humanity gets that we can work together and overcome as a species our problems Edit: Oh you do cover it, nice!

[@abaranihei2608]

I always found it strange that oportunistic behaviour is actually seen as good.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Or as a Sam put it, "there's some good in this world... and it's worth fighting for."

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

Also, if you're Jewish (like me,) it's nice to see so many Jewish heroes in a story, and it's rather flattering to Jewish people.

[@maadtee6281]

But at what cost earth is still in a huge chaos and it is nuclear filled only zombie movie that I know where we overcome it is scouts guide to zombie and Shaun of the dead with Dead Days a webtoon being just as good just is more inspired by the zombie mythos from Haiti

[@GnomePuntTrainerYT]

I'm currently reading the book, and in the middle of this pandemic I can hardly take it serious. So many of the little stories are based on how solid the logic and facts were by the newly risen leaders or architects of different plans, but in reality people refuse to take a vaccine or wear a face mask. World War Z is a solid fiction, but not a fiction because of the zombie virus. I do however wish HBO or somebody like that picks up the rights to make a tv show with each episode being a standalone story from the book

[@TheDwarfInator]

I’ve been telling my fiancée the reason I enjoy the zombie genre so much is because it is a great setting for character studies. The plots are nearly the same (as you put it, “seek shelter, engage enemy”), so, imo, the zombie stories that focus more on the characters, how they come together, and how they address their situations is much more entertaining than simply watching a group of near super soldiers gunning down mobs of the undead (or infected). That’s why stories like 28 Days Later, Train to Busan, and The Ravenous hold particular spots in my love for the genre.

[@ScEscapism]

Train to busan is A GEM, peninsula tho we do not talk about

[@C0wb0yBebop]

Hell yes !!! Extra points for mentioning Ravenous

[@sd-wc9ep]

Znation is really great imo, one of my favorite shows

[@lexxstrum]

To your point, I love how a post apocalyptic story, especially a zombie story, gives you a chance to change someone's position in society. Daryl from Walking Dead is a good example of this: if the zombies didn't happen, he would have been a meth dealing biker dude, probably in prison. But after zombies, he's a better person; hell, he becomes a HERO.

[@tomemeornottomeme1864]

Also, a genre with pre-established norms like this means that you are not spending time building context and explaining things. People know how zombies work, so often zombie stories don't have to dwell on what the hell a zombie even is unless it's something the writer specifically wants. Having a pre-established setting and rules (ie, humans will form groups that eventually go to war, zombies can mutate into different, more dangerous versions, etc) means that you're sort of just working within that setting to create your own little story.

[@liz5100]

Your question at 7:10 about why zombies tend to be so prevalent in contrast to the list of other monsters you listed is really simple honestly: they're not copy righted.

[@matthewuzhere]

there are definitely other non-copyrighted monsters he mentioned, like dracula. but you make a good point

[@trequor]

@@matthewuzhere Vamps are in a close second place in terms of prevalence.

[@ladyshaya]

There's a point I disagree with that I find important for the meaning of zombie stories; zombies aren't dead, they're _undead_. At least for me, it's about when the parts of us we can't let go of (let die) take over and suppress our ability to reason and empathize, turning us into mindless monsters of utter inhumanity. That too is something that seems at times like a contagion. Like how the Jungian Shadow possesses someone and tend to trigger possessions in others (imagine how comment fields sooner or later tend to degrade into a triggerfest). I think this is an important point because it takes us back to how to not be a zombie yourself: deal with your inner monsters, and let go of the parts of you that are, and need to stay, dead.

[@Tracker947]

While I agree with your interpretation in isolation, I will say that I disagree that it is the most holistically correct, and for one reason. While your point can be specifically applied to certain zombie stories, it doesn't really do a good job of acknowledging that becoming a zombie is, in the vast majority of circumstances, completely and utterly outside of one's control. It doesn't matter what manor of life you find yourself in, whether you are at peace or in turmoil, whether you have mastered your darkness or it has mastered you, both fall to nothing before the archetypal zombie. The zombie doesn't pose the threat of being overcome by your inner monsters, the zombie poses a question. How will you look at your fellow man when at any moment they could become a threat?

[@yhsa]

Most of us find ourselves truly detached from reality and we also immerse ourselves into video games . Because we found one thing that outside world lacks....a purpose.

[@zianawind2970]

That sounds overly simplistic at first but really nails it. It took me a while to understand.. I liked video games since I was a kid 30 years ago.. stopped now e then. I’m not lost in it it’s just my favorite pass time now e then.. after years living in India and Japan etcetera I’m basically a hermit and still like video games a lot, it’s the sense of simplified purpose that I find enjoyable and relaxing.. funny I hadn’t put the finger on it.

[@johnortiz3745]

@@zianawind2970 We immerse our ourselves in other forms. Where we would feel part of a lore. Dnd or cyberpunk is good example of a immersive world.

[@orangewarm1]

Most of us? I dont play video games. Am I in the minority? My brothers and sisters dont play video games, or my neice and nephew.

[@derek96720]

@@orangewarm1 using your family as a model for what constitutes normal behavior is a statistically flawed method for figuring out what the average is. It's too anecdotal. That said, I doubt the majority of people play video games.

[@rustyshackleford3160]

Or yoy know, cuz video games are fun. If I could live out my Life's dream of conquering Mordor I would. I'm not mentally ill because I enjoy escapist fiction

[@roberthipolito1351]

just last year in the middle of the pandemic, alone, having lost my job, behind on rent, no money and running dry basic stuff like food, I would fantasize about zombie outbreaks. Wishing that society could just fall to something like this because it would mean I could at least go into some store and steal food and it wouldn't matter, nothing would matter anymore. No shitty jobs, no rent, no worries of little money, no sleepless nights thinking on how I'll never achieve anything. if it all went to hell I would only have to worry about survival and none of the meaningless constructs imposed by a society. one year later I'm back to who I was before the pandemic, unfulfilled, alone, trying to figure out what the hell I'm doing and why; i hate it.

[@shovas]

Lots of people have those thoughts. I recommend Jordan Peterson as a jumping off point to help you with direction and meaning.

[@losgryfog]

Same. I'm really working out how to arrange myself for going onto the Appalachian trail and spending 6 or so months of my life and where or if I'll come out someplace new

[@melaniey.5596]

I wouldn’t recommend Jordan Peterson, he is as likely to push you to a rabbit hole of empty meaning, where you get meaning from othering people, and only a butchered version of the original wisdom. If you are interested about what he has to offer, I recommend you look into the original sources he taps from. Like the works of Carl Jung and Buddhist teachings (a good start is “The voice of the silence” from H.P. Blavatsky). But honestly, the only thing I can recommend is, make friends, join a group, with whom you can talk many things about, not only shared interests. Forge bonds. Ask others about themselves (everyone loves talking about themselves, and you may find many interesting things that way, I do). Having a network of social support greatly helps when going though harsh times. I hope things get better for you.

[@Tracker947]

I feel you. I've contemplated just leaving everything behind and hitting the road as a bum until something kills me so many times

[@thefutureisnowoldman7653]

@@shovas Are you trying to help him or make him a buzz kill

[@sammyboi8938]

The interesting thing I like in zombie stories is what it does to society. Zombie apocalypse will inevitably crumble social constructs so while zombies are a threat to Humanity, the thing we should fear the most is Humanity itself. Zombies are predictable, they only want to eat you. Humans are not, their objectives varies and their willingness is unparalleled.

[@Tracker947]

This is wrong. Zombies do not crumble social constructs. In order for social constructs to crumble, humans would have to make it crumble themselves. Humanity shouldn't necessarily fear anything, as fear isn't inherently positive or negative. It isn't wrong to fear what you fear. But that is the threat of the zombie: the threat that at any moment, anyone, no matter how well you know or love them, could become a threat to your life that you are unable to reason with in any way. The threat of the zombie is the destruction of humanity brought about by our fear for each other.

[@ThrottleKitty]

I've always felt zombies were just a literary tool to make a bad guy that's the amazing trifecta of A) Always moral to kill B) Always understood by the audience and C) Can pose a threat OR be easily dispatched depending on context. As a writer, I always loved them for this reason alone.

[@shovas]

Probably true but the great thing about human psychology is that even our seemingly shallowest intentions stem from incredible depths of meaning.

[@maadtee6281]

Unfortunately most zombie books suck

[@ThrottleKitty]

@@nothinglessthanutopia conflating enjoying fiction to literal fascism does nothing but normalize fascism. Is that your intent? To compare being a fascist to reading a book?

[@The_Sleepiest_Socialist]

And they can be a secondary threat. Most apocalyptic dangers would be the biggest threat within their world. A zombie can be dangerous in the beginning, take a backseat when the characters get more competent (but you have to show your characters getting competent) and the main threat becomes other people who clash with the protagonists for any reason. Then you can make the zombies dangerous in different ways and situations. I think my first book will be about zombies (I’m 15 and I plan on writing as a secondary job).

[@rubncarmona]

Hey Tom, take a look at In The Flesh!! A series about people that were resurrected as zombies without explanation. After some years they're cured from the zombieish part of it, becoming just humans again but now have some physical and psychological sequelae.

[@stalfithrildi5366]

Really interesting way to use zombies to discuss Othering and discrimination within modern societies

[@qlementin]

I recommend reading the book "Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis" to anyone who is interested in the symbolic significance of the Zombie, and why it has become so pervasive in western pop-culture.

[@vib2119]

Isn't that the book John Vervaeke was the co-author of? I would also recommend his KZbin series of lectures about "Awakening from the meaning crisis", it's very long but highly recommended. I haven't come around watching the rest of his stuff yet but those I have watched and they are great! An intro to that series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJTHZ6Rvqq54mtk

[@PolishBehemoth]

It's because it gives people an enemy to fight as evil when morality and any sense there of is looked down upon in western society.

[@matthewmercer623]

How to summarize the oversaturation of zombie media in one sentence: "Hey Joe, you wanna play a zombie game?"

[@TheEmeraldWeirdo]

Boy, is that an understatement. Seems like half the survival-style games that come out nowadays are zombie-based. And they're all basically the same game, too.

[@damsen978]

Project Zomboid is an exception because of realistic mechanics.@@TheEmeraldWeirdo

[@RAFI205]

About that argument that zombies can't truly be great character I can recomend the first season of In the Flesh. It's an interesting take on cured zombies that were reintroduced into the society after ending of a zombie apocalypse.

[@RAFI205]

great video btw ;)

[@bobbyf1741]

@@RAFI205 Check out The Girl With All The Gifts for another great zombie character. There are even more zombie protagonist in novelization. The Monster Planet series comes to mind. I also recall reading a short story which was from the first person point of view of the zombie. Her thoughts on her actions were as normal to her as any living persons would be about theirs.

[@neooblisk0084]

@@bobbyf1741 What book was it?

[@alexengland-shinemercy]

In The Flesh was amazing. I loved it all of it and just wish it had been given a chance to reach a prooer conclusion v

[@danielwadford3699]

Even then, they're unzombified and turned back into humans. The premise sounds similar to the show True Blood which is about vampires assimilating into human society and trying to gain rights however, unlike True Blood, In The Flesh does not have zombies demanding citizenship and rights but has FORMER zombies trying to reintegrate into human society. In The Flesh is to True Blood what Warm Bodies is to Twilight. However, just like with Warm Bodies, In the Flesh is about turning the zombies back into humans and not actually having the zombies themselves as characters the same way Twilight and True Blood use vampires. 12 years ago, we had teenage girls being asked if they wanted to date either a vampire or werewolf. Imagine if they were asked about dating a zombie; out of those three monsters, they would definitely not date a zombie. I don't think we'll ever see a story about a woman falling in love with a zombie being bit and becoming a zombie herself so she can be with her zombie lover forever or zombies demanding equal rights and citizenship in a human society. The only way either of these could work is by having them as comedies and not serious stories or have the zombies unzombified and turned back into humans.

[@lunso3811]

Zombies came from Haiti, and from enslavd people living there. It started after the fear of "What if they also take our soul?". After learning this zombies have become the fear of losing yourself for me. Sadly I feel like this is never shown in any media tho

[@TRAMP-oline]

Part of it does exist, albeit divorced from colonialism. In that context the Haitian zombie is a beautiful cry for help, like a dream made real by a people desperate to exist for at least one more day. In Telltale Games' The Walking Dead there is a song used for two ending credits titled "Take Us Back," and one of the entrenched themes of the games is the retention of humanity. While the cries of slaves are long since forgotten, the shape of their cries live on and inspire others to hope in the face of hopelessness.

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

​@@TRAMP-oline the voodoo zombies do exist

[@hendrsb33]

Perhaps it's a weariness with our society, feeling and acting like mindless automatons, doing largely the same things every day, bound by rules-- both social and economic-- that keep us in the same existence loop... over and over and over again. Wanting to be free. Wanting to blow shit up. Wanting release from all things we feel obligated to do and getting on with things we want to do. There's more reasons than I can come up with in a YT comment. Personally, I don't care much about the zombie genre and I'm here wondering why others do.

[@LordofSadFac]

Youre not far from a solid point, after all the Zombie genre started as social commentary, something that hasnt changed in the last years. Zombies tend to be used as plot devices to send a message or cause an event, like for example as mentioned in Dawn of the Dead, with how we tend to consume mindlessly in malls, while other movies just use them at face value like Army of the Dead with a cheap metaphor for autoritharian border patrol.

[@hendrsb33]

@@LordofSadFac I feel closest to zombie-dom whenever I have to stand in a long line or do my taxes. As far as zombie movies go, I'm of the NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD generation. The young me was probably as much into zombies as anyone but I grew out of it and they don't hold any special interest to me anymore. It would, however, be interesting to see zombies go back to its roots of Haitian zombie lore... but I think that may have been done already. Can't remember the movie's name. KOLCHAK THE NIGHT STALKER had an episode with a Haitian zombie too. C'est la vie...

[@losgryfog]

@@hendrsb33 I feel like the main issue with the modern comprehension of zombie movies, is that people want them to be one thing when they never were that to begin with. From the original NOTLD half of the whole is the effect on humanity, how we will react and who will take on what role, what will the landscape become. With everything going on currently, for me, zombie movies seem more relevant now than ever 😂

[@Tracker947]

The desire for the zombie apocalypse and fascination for it comes from the want for society as we know it to break down so that we can be free from a mundane and repetitive existence and the things we feel that bind us down. It is a release. Just like many other fantasies, it's just the traits unique to a zombie apocalypse resonate more with some people than the fantasy of say, falling into another world with super powers.

[@paulatreides0777]

For the reasons you stated mate

[@HeatherHolt]

You can literally make anything interesting from a philosophical standpoint. That’s a true talent my friend.

[@gamonstudios]

My favorite version of this is the walking dead comic. The tv show did a good job but lost its track trying to keep the attention of the viewers with constant cliffhangers, drastic character changes and death fake outs. The comic shows how the world can turn the nicest people into the most hardened killers, but at the same time with the need to rely on community.

[@rina5221]

And it also had a [SPOILER] Ending where the humanity (both as a species and as a quality) wins

[@salmongod9115]

I think you skirted around the edges of the most important aspect of the genre: How human beings relate socially to the modern world. I think the zombie formula taps into two fundamental issues with living in a global industrial media-soaked society. First, we are constantly surrounded by more people than we have the capacity to have empathy for. The majority of human history and evolution took place in hunter/gatherer tribes and small villages, where you were intimately familiar with most other human beings you came in contact with. The majority of humanity lives in cities now. We are constantly exposed to people we know nothing about, and we don't necessarily recognize them as human in the same way we recognize our friends, families, co-workers, etc. Second, the nature of our survival struggles have changed. This you came much closer to nailing. Pre-industrial, our struggles were material scarcity and direct violence (dangerous animals, marauders). Post-industrial revolution, we aren't subjected to material or violent struggle so much. Rather, we are, but we engage with those struggles ideologically. Our society subjects people to scarcity and violence all the time, but who gets subjected to those things is largely the result of ideological struggles. As the new ideological axis of conflict has progressed, it's compounded on itself in multiple ways. It's grown in complexity, with ideologies becoming more fractured by details. And the combination of mass media with post-cold war consumerism pressuring everyone into more social atomization has caused ideology to be the manner in which most of us process and interact with the rest of the world outside of our small social circles. What this amounts to is a vague feeling we all carry of the modern world being a hostile place, even though that hostility rarely confronts us in a personal way. This translates into a generalized anxiety about those outside of our social group, who we process as soulless until proven otherwise. As opposed to ourselves and the people in our lives that we directly know, who feel vibrantly soulful by comparison. The infectious nature of zombies, as you noticed, relates to our anxiety about those we care about becoming like the rest of the world. To lose someone to the zombie plague is to see someone fall to sympathetic for ideals that we fail to understand and feel threatening to us. Or to watch them fade from familiarity and assimilate into a different social group, becoming one of the crowd. And boiling underneath it all is this overwhelming sense of being outnumbered by these soulless others. This sense of being part of the band of colorful characters in a world infested with innumerable hordes of soulless beings who want to consume you for reasons you don't understand. I think everyone feels like they're in a zombie apocalypse already, but that feeling is deeply buried and vague. The reason zombie stories resonate so strongly is it brings those feelings to the surface, and provides a sort of language for what's otherwise just a vague subconscious existential paranoia. And the reason the violent apocalypse aspect of these story settings is so appealing is because of the juxtaposition of conflicts that we're wired to innately understand - material scarcity and violence - clashing directly with the conflicts we struggle with in reality - vague subconscious existential paranoia. And the zombie genre lends itself so well to social commentary - ANY social commentary, because every social issue relates to these fundamental elements of how human beings socially relate to the modern world. The mysterious, infectious nature of ideological struggle, and the overwhelming of our social capacities forcing us to process the world in terms of characters or zombies. And the best zombie stories are the ones that highlight how its our capacity to have empathy and to compromise and organize effectively within this sociological landscape that needs to evolve in order for the modern world to succeed. The rise of zombies represents how the world has changed. The apocalypse represents our failure to adapt to that change. It's the world we will have if our better natures don't prevail, and we know this.

[@alexxx4434]

Spot on.

[@mikebasil4832]

Despite my original fandom of Night Of The Living Dead, I'm not a watcher of zombie stories anymore. But reflections on why they can still have their place in our entertainment are always fascinating. Thank you for including them on your channel. 🧟

[@rsiraistlin2473]

I read once that in the past, man was afraid of the forests. The deep, dark, unknown. That howl that you werent sure was behind that nearest tree or miles away. In modern society, the narrative flipped. We conquered those spooky woods. In doing so though, the city became the spooky area and the faceless masses became the threat. The zombies.

[@PsychoRavager]

Like Stories of Old always has a way to make me tear up! Beautiful video!

[@KeyserSoseRulz]

What I really like about zombies is that they break all laws of thermodynamics, especially by spending more energy than they produce. lol.

[@bub6590]

There is also, from another culture, the manga "Attack on Titan", where the titans are essentially giant zombies, created from humans. I think, in this particular story, that they are the physical manifestation of the "monster within each of us", wich is soulless, eternally hungry, and attacks everyone (but only humans) indiscriminately. In the manga, only one race of humans (the eldians) can transform into titans, and this fact is used as an excuse by other humans to scapegoat and oppress them.

[@darkesttimeline7026]

I've always thought aot was like "the walking dead" of anime

[@duckduckbobo5208]

I think AOT is so wonderful because it not only captures the essence of the zombie genre, but also the war genre. If you haven't already seen LSOO's analysis of war movies, you definitely should.

[@urbiznesnunuv6938]

Boku no seagull

[@joshuajoaquin5099]

@@darkesttimeline7026 highschool of the dead is more like the walking dead but sadly author died before finishing the storu

[@ushikiii]

@@joshuajoaquin5099 a very perverted version of it for sure.

[@sarahmartin2464]

I’ve been thinking about this concept for two whole years. Thank you for making a video that verbalized precisely how I’ve felt and never been able to explain

[@samhinnant4416]

Zombie movies for me speak of a time most people of the modern era have never experienced. Where your only thought are to survive for one more day. And in our own world where we have so many different worries this is somewhat romantic that anyone of us could be the hero of this simplified world.

[@aidan3124]

TWD season 1 game captures your idea very well, sure there was evil humans in the story but Lee and Clementines bond shows hope in humanity during the worst of times.

[@thomashiggins9320]

Okay, this should be an interesting video, because I think zombies are the *stupidest* monsters, ever. An unintelligent thing that behaves with absolute predictability, and makes no attempt at self-preservation, is (at best) a temporary annoyance, quickly resolved. Even "fast zombies" pose little in the way of additional danger. This whole genre, in general, is just dumb -- notwithstanding the occasional outlier story that's actually decent. If he can find something meaningful, beyond the obvious allusions to consumer culture, then I'll be impressed. I think the cynical lack of compassion is one of the key attractions of zombie stories. Some people find quite attractive a dead-simple, "Us vs Them" story of violent tribalism. In our complex social realities, some people just don't have the patience (or the willingness) to put in the work necessary to find a way to get along with others -- especially, others who perceive the world quite differently. They're already tribal, and the world they live in is already minimal, because their limited ability to create meaningful relationships circumscribes the "success" (however that's defined) they can attain. They don't want to *have* to tolerate. They don't want to *have* to figure out how to get along. They don't want to *have* to figure out ways to live together, peacefully. They don't want to *have* to live according to the rules and constraints of modern civil society. To them, a zombie simply personifies every other human being they don't want to have to get to know. And they get to blow the brains out of "those people." It's simple life, in a simple world, in which they think they get to be big fish, because the pond is so much smaller. That simplicity, combined with the tremendous violence that "solves" the conflict, provides a visceral, atavistic, cathartic experience for people frustrated at the difficulties they face, in real life. That said, many of us value the great gifts to humanity, and enjoy some modicum of personal success, enabled by modern civilization -- as annoyingly complex as that may be. For many of us, I think, zombie movies hold very little in the way of any sort of attraction -- but that, of course, means we're the ones many fans of the genre want to see zombified. That way, they can blow our brains out. But that's also what made the book, "World War Z" so good. The interviews showed humanity at our best -- our most resilient, our most hopeful -- at our great willingness to work, together. Some of the stories, such as the one told by the woman who got trapped, with her family, at a campground in Canada with not enough food, were pretty horrible. But most stories in the book were much more satisfying.

[@hondaguy9153]

That line about the stories becoming too depressing...oof. That's when I quit watching the walking dead. How, when and why Glen was murdered was too much for me.

[@romanmanner]

Same. Once that happened, with Abraham too - I realized this was all TWD was gonna be. The world is depressing enough without having to grow attached to characters in our stories to only have them die in purposefully shocking ways for ratings. Too bad about the show, really. It could've really been something great.

[@Eduardo-jk8bl]

You have to catch up to season 9, maybe even skipping season 8. Angela Kang was hired as the new showrunner for the show and hell yeah if it got upgraded in writing... directing... quality... hell the entire show after Scott Gimple butchered it. Humane, actual nice dialogue and no slaps on our faces with plot armor, jumping the shark moments and cliffhangers. Depressive tone? Searching for a more light hearted or at least an attempt to? With some hope and work for it? You get a mix of both. All very well approached and worked on. It is just a much better show. I don't agree with the point of quitting the show over their deaths. The show really went straight down to hell after that episode, but not because of their deaths but the slopiness of the responsible for working on the show. Season 7/8 are very very fucking poor. We all have moments in life that it may seem that we're getting beat up and will never get up but that doesn't mean that we will be cursed with that forever we can't get up and beat our obstacles. Not gonna lie, I believe that quitting the show for that reason and expecting only depression further on was kinda dumb. I believe that this episode was sure traumatizing, but it was a great one. Still... I strongly suggest you to watch season 9. You can see a quick recap of season 7 and 8 if you wish. Regarding Glenn and Abraham: Not trying to be Negan's lawyer here but... Rick took the deal of working with Gregory from Hilltop and agreed with his plan of killing lots of saviors in their sleep during a raid. Carol and Maggie on their stand-alone episode took care of another supporting squad. Rick agreed to hurt the Saviors hard and ended up paying the price, and Negan was quite humble, took only two of them down. Ratings-wise: Glenn and Abraham's death was set in the same period in the comics. Abraham being a bit earlier so... Their deaths was inevitable or otherwise they would get a lot of backlash from the comic fans and Negan wouldn't have sent a better message for Rick's group. Well... That's it, I hope you give season 9 a good chance and if you do, I hope you enjoy it. Wtf am I doing answering a 4 week old comment...? idk.

[@hondaguy9153]

@@Eduardo-jk8bl maybe I'll check out 9 at some point. It wasn't straight up about Glen, but that whole scene was particularly awful. I watched a few more episodes after that. Part of the reason I quit was not having access to watch the show anymore.

[@DavidDude87]

I never watched that scene for a second time. The way they depicted it was so unnecessary. I felt almost unable to care because I was so shocked. I just asked myself; How f**ed up do you have to be that all the mutilation doesn't seem to be enough to pull off something like this.

[@torstenw5723]

I stopped watching the walking dead because it went on too long...there shouldn't even have been hordes of zombies after like 3 weeks due to decay.

[@Zack-xv2yc]

Hey man, can you talk about *immortality* in stories next?? I've always wanted to know what immortals think about humanity. Like, if there's an immortal that have lived for millennia said he/she had lost faith in humanity, what would be your response? How do you argue with someone that literally has WAY MORE experience that you could ever have about such a subject? Could make a great video.

[@cristarose503]

My favorite zombie property isn't a film, but a series. Kingdom is a beautifuly creative series. Another point is that I was watching another video essay that was talking about copyright law. Zombies were never copyrighted, so a wide range of creators have the opportunity of remaking them.

[@adebleswordfish]

I feel like a zombie movie respecting the dead that makes use of a human understanding of society and the dramatic, tragic, and comedic understanding. Using close combat weapons usually just a few at a time and very broken down or physically fit and robustly fast. A movie that seeks to deliver a deeper understanding and love among the living here and now to truly be alive!

[@fireboy1210]

Great video! One question I would raise is, in this vain of the zombie being the antithesis of humanity and all we consider integral to humanity, how would something like the Planet of the Apes fit in? Much of our society is focused on linear progression forwards. While zombies are a good antonym to our current state of being, I think something like the apes provides another very interesting perspective in that they are not the opposite of us, instead they personify the idea that, in the branching web of possibilities that led to our evolution, we may have not been the 'right' choice. Not only does it not give an external enemy, like a zombie, to fight against, but it also explores a sense of existential doubt. I would love to hear your thoughts on that!

[@pop000690]

Fairly good points. It's part of the reason why in terms of zombie media I prefer the Resident Evil games. The games (well the ones with zombies in them) are more isolated incidents rather than a full blown apocalypse, even with for example the Racoon City stuff in 2 and 3 and others, it's still one place that's affected by the zombies and other zombies while the rest of the world decide what to do. I find zombie stories with more isolated scenarios kinda brings back the fear of zombies of things getting worse while in the apocalyptic storeis, the worst is already happened and zombies are just an everyday thing.

[@ThatKeyserSoze]

Junger's "Tribe" is also a must read for this analysis. People seek meaning, and the chaos of conflict crystalizes that meaning into clarity of thought. I think you addressed that well.

[@DouglasHollingsworth1]

Night Eats The World and #Alive have been some of my favorite zombie films in the past 12-16 months BECAUSE they're not the bland "guns and violence solves everything" survival fantasies that have infected (pun intended) US culture ... they're both about surviving the end of the world and still staying human. The first one's from France and is on Amazon Prime (?) and I believe the second one was Korean and on Netflix (?)

[@jb76489]

America is bad

[@hezlerb7239]

I've always seen it as a fascination with death and immortality; Zombies embody deaths seemingly disconnected, indiscriminate and ravenous nature a perfect mirror of our disconnection with death itself... Also consumerism metaphor and a slap to the face to our idea of social interaction; showing us the difference between actually socializing and surviving vs passing each other by in a relatively safe city and boasting about how social we are.

[@burnu2240]

i feel like the general audience loves zombie movies, because it doesn't matter who you were, its who you are...and the sense of change...so its escapism/wanting to start your life over again

[@futurestoryteller]

I've thought about zombies for a long time, being a fan of George Romero and the social commentary of his movies. I don't think any symbol has a truly universal meaning for everyone. So the purpose of a zombie story depends on the teller, but I've had a theory for awhile that the staying power of zombies in the western world is because they encompass apocalyptic predictions made in the New Testament, particularly the resurrection of the dead, and all four of its horsemen. It puts an ironic twist on some of these things, but the parallels are easy to draw, and would seep into the cultural consciousness.

[@therevenancy]

Fantastic video. Definitely going to start watching this channel on Nebula. Thank you for the thought-provoking piece.

[@Jones23Boy]

I love your video essays.

[@seijunsejuki]

I thought Black Summer on netflix was by FAR the best Zombie story I've ever seen. It took a genre I frankly never liked, and made it absolutely riveting. One the one hand I wish it hadn't ended after only two seasons, but on the other I'm glad it didn't run itself into the ground like Walking Dead. I feel that show was tragically underseen, and just waiting to be rediscovered.

[@Aalpine001]

i don't know you but I LOVE YOU!

[@CyanBlackflower]

Good Channel & Videos. I like the insightful, thoughtful,and thorough coverage of relevant aspects of the topics covered. Good job.

[@ellamae5348]

Has anyone seen the Korean Netflix show Kingdom? Definitely my favourite new zombie story I've watched in a while, i love how they've gone about the zombies' inception. I guess koreans really know how to do zombies. It might be interesting to compare how different cultures present zombies.

[@ashagiris6298]

Yes! Absolutely loved both seasons and Ashin of the North. The writer of this series is amazing and she's also done a solid detective tv series called 'Signal' which I highly recommend 🤗

[@davidbecquer3624]

I am SO happy you decided to use the "Total War" quote from WWZ. That is, for me, the essence of what makes zombies so terrifying.

[@Axehilt]

Tons of great points made as usual. Personally I want to see more "allegory" zombie stories than we currently get. Not necessarily attacking consumerism, but really criticizing _any_ ideologies that people mindlessly follow or that cause people to behave more mindlessly. That said, the success of Walking Dead to me (in Season 1 at least) was all the really difficult situations it put its characters in (point being that I can certainly appreciate zombies as more than just an allegory). Been playing tons of Vermintide 2 (not actually a zombie game, but the endless hordes of rat-men are _basically_ zombies), and there are a lot of reasons zombie type monsters work great in games too. One of the big ones is our expectations of intelligent vs. stupid enemies. So when something goes wrong with the artificial intelligence controlling the enemies, _with a zombie it's no problem because they're just a zombie,_ but if the character is presented as being smart then it's really jarring if they start acting strangely.

[@thepixalking6589]

I think the idea that we are seeking a life where we get back in touch with the basics, the essentials, is the most compelling metaphor in our current culture. People are bored with to many distractions now. Their life lacks meaning. Zombies boil us down to the essentials, and males especially are craving that now.

[@visvivalaw]

Also, the best zombie movie ever made is the third in the Romero Trilogy, "Day of the Dead". The 1985 version, because a few more modern and truly awful movies have re-used that title.

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

Day of the Dead is the best of the three in my opinion

[@zephyr8072]

"Consumerism is bad. Anyway, pay to watch my zombie movie."

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

I really wish for an monster apocalypse story were there is no "humans are the real monster" bullshit Just humanity comming together, more united, in a meaningful manner

[@airbound1779]

You’ve put some work into this haven’t you? Good show.

[@gentleman8550]

Cried imagining how it would devastate you to shoot or kill your loved one, it would strip out the purpose and meaning to live. How blessed we are to love our kin, our partners and not to take ourselves for granted. A beautiful purpose to live for and cherish.

[@Tracker947]

It would not be devastating to shoot the empty shell of what was once your loved one, it would be devastating that they became an empty shell in the first place.

[@Cry4Tanelorn]

I love that even this channel is starting to see how bad KZbin is

[@sidlukkassen9687]

You have recreated the critique of Jean-Jacques Rousseau on Thomas Hobbes' state of nature. Rousseau argued that Hobbes ignored the sympathetic aspects of human nature, and projected the vainglorious human type, product of a vainglorious society, back into some primordial past. The zombie apocalypse genre is the same scenario but then with the future as the backdrop of the state of nature.

[@rannyacernese6627]

The Dawn of the Dead remake captured the genres criticism of mindless western consumerism best. The mall as temple of capitalism and the endless appetite of the zombies and their desire to convert to the cause. The walking Dead’s major flaw was the idea of scarcity and the struggle to survive. In a nation with more guns than people why would you fight for weapons or cars or shelter. 95% of the population is gone. That constant struggle is needed to combat the way it would likely have occur, that people would band together and recreate society in all it’s complexity quickly ruining the simplicity of survival.

[@jonisalmela2399]

A good zombie is a background for the story; my favorite variant would be humanity recovering nations starting to start up world economy, likes of world war z(book) or suviving the dead book series. My favorite way to justify how zombies even become a thread; well look how stupid ppl were with covid. Imagine if there were never eneugh resources to get it done! No one with the power to end it did not want to be held responsible, add idiots who would think drinking zombie saliva would grant immunity? and zombie deniers? Until point of no return. And even then ppl in power do not want fix the problem but to pander the public to help ignore the problem. And that way you get only way to survive is to escape the bubble and face reality.

[@dbix11]

a license to commit violence and be on the run for adventure

[@daveholland6293]

"Albelist" if you are being serious, that so stupid, I'm fat and I know my ass is dead if zombies can run.

[@72Worker]

Zombie stories have become connected to End of the World stories. Very few show non end of the world stories with zombies.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

The walking dead was a great one season show, a perfect season, good thing no season was released after it and milked it dry and made it repetitive as fuck

[@jerseyjackrabbit2829]

i have a idea of a zombie series. one the zombie is a virus yeah but the virus builds up over time in the body. incubates as you may say where it creates a sac then hatches a wyrm which then takes over the brain etc. if the person is alive the wyrm turns them into a infected variant that can run, climb etc since the host is still live. if the host dies the virus still builds but and hatch early causing it to be under develope and make it a walking zombie. the wyrm creates a mucus that helps keep the body from breaking down as much. wyrm bottom half replaces the tongue allowing it to jump out like aliens. you kill the body the wyrms move out of it where they slither and run on the floor looking for a new host where they bury thru the skin then go for the brain. the saliva of the host produces the virus but the virus spreads thru body fluid such as blood and mucus. the best way survive it is to make sure your infection lvel is low where if its spikes and get high it can become a tumor like sac which incubates and makes the wyrm. starve the blood, have a toxic disease or using anti parastic drugs may work but never really gets rid of the entire infection. however the series i want the world to move on. the characters make sense but they dont abandon society in total but the societies that are breeded from this event are dangerous where you see inklings of what people try to get away with now dangerously blossom at the end of the world. the militas of the south, race only communities, religious sects, a community where children of the corn happens and adults are forced out into the madness. the one key aspect of the infected though is that the more infected you are you have hallucinations, hear things, see things and a few speak to something that turns the wyrms into something greater then some virus or monster. its a hive mind with a leader that breeds and devours like some sort of hg wells creature. the main character of the story is one of few who has a sac inside of him but its not hatching but he gains all the abilites of a wyrm. the communication and awarness aspect.

[@danielwadford3699]

Nice video. Could you possibly do a video on teacher films such as To Sir With Love, Stand and Deliver, Lean On Me, Dangerous Minds, Coach Carter, and Freedom Writers. These films, some based on true stories, are about teachers who inspire their student in schools to believe in themselves and act as second parents to them. There is even a mockumentary on ABC called Abbott Elementary which is about an underfunded school in Philadelphia and the staff have to make due with what they have. Since you did a video on how to tell a meaningful zombie story can you please do a video on a meaningful teacher story using these films and TV shows as examples.

[@consoledself7785]

I highly recommend you do a video on Attack On Titan, it would be great to hear your thoughts on this show.

[@visvivalaw]

By the way, George Romero's "Night of the Living Dead" is not the origin. Romero said in several interviews that he was inspired by the 1966 Vincent Price movie "Last Man on Earth" where the "undead" were a kind of vampire. Side note: "Last Man on Earth" was the first of three movies based on the Richard Matheson novel "I Am Legend", the other two being the Charlton Heston movie "The Omega Man" and Wil Smith's "I Am Legend".

[@Tore_Lund]

I think the Zombie genre has evolved into an artform on its own. There are certain story elements the audience expects. Likewise, it has transcended from the horror genre to comedy. Even the serious takes on the genre have more humorous elements. So Zombie movies are like musicals, there are certain buttons the audience expect to be pressed also that it ends badly eventually for the protagonists.

[@uqbar42]

I ws expecting to see weirder examples full of meaning, such as Cargo, where zombies are a methaphoe of mortality over ensuring one's child towards the future, or even Maggie, which deals with it in the same way. Sometimes zombies are mere minions, but something I love about them is that they are a perversion of humanity, the exact opposite as you said here. Few things are worse than the fear of becoming unhuman.

[@efenty6235]

"the zombie apocalypse is ableist"

[@Dapryor]

This year I read The Walking Dead graphic novel series. The author has a forward in the first volume where he says that he was more interested in how people would behave when the world crumbles. And the zombies were more or less an entertaining plot device.

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

What were your thoughts on it?

[@Tobarja]

Most zombie content does very little for me. Either stupid/campy or not, you know, enough zombies. I greatly enjoyed the original We're Alive podcast. It had me panting, jumpy, and crap when's the next episode!

[@EricDaMAJ]

Zombies as mythological monsters don’t scare me. Zombies as metaphors for violent mob based social movements do - like nothing ever else ever has. I used to rely on George Carlin’s commentary on zombies that they _“…are so damn undependable.”_ Now I have this. Thank you from the bunker.

[@jamescook2199]

The zombie story was born out of Haitian fears of being enslaved forever. Zombie came to America as a pervasive fear of slave uprisings like the one that happened in Haiti. The reason there needs to be zombies in the apocalypse is that we know in the end we will have to account for what has led us to that place

[@spacepooakabigbadapple6677]

Interesting, I did not know it started that way. However I dont belive its origins still affect the Genre. It's been 2 long and has been transformed.

[@darleengeary8414]

Like Stories of Old... I am so incredibly grateful to have stumbled on your channel a few years ago. You have been the one voice that I can always come to and feel human again and not alone. You have always touched my heart with your soothing voice and deep attention to detail. A true understanding of the human nature and a breathtaking way of unfolding a story and the understanding of it all. Thank you Thank you Thank you

[@LerockJohn]

You are the only writer/narrator that I listen with the Loudness Knob turn to the far right....

[@fosko7494]

My favorite Zombie movie is by far Return of the Living Dead. Number two is the 2004 remake of Dawn of the Dead. Wish they could find a way to make them scary again.

[@connorgahan5197]

ZOMBIES ARE NOT COPYRIGHTED [EVEN NONHUMAN ZOMBIES ARE NOT COPYRIGHTED]

[@reyals66]

I'm currently working on a zombie screenplay and the timing of this video couldn't have been any better. Thank you @Like Stories Of Old

[@doublebloggers6661]

I think one of the concepts that make a good zombies is the concept of everyday civilians being trapped during a zombie outbreak

[@terrorcop101]

Personally, I think zombies got so popular because they're cheap and easy, relatively speaking. Compared to massive amounts of specially made puppets and CGI, a bunch of people in corpse make-up either standing/waddling around, getting picked off, or ganging up on people not in corpse make-up, well need I say more?

[@connorgahan5197]

IN THE OTHER DEAD ARE ZOMBIE DOGS EVEN ZOMBIE POODLES/CHIHAUHUAS AND ZOMBIE RODENTS LIKE SQIURRELS/RATS/MICE [RODENTS CAN CHEW THROUGH CONCRETE] AND SMAALL DOGS LIKE [POODLES/CHIHUAHUAS] ARE OVERPROTECTIVE AND YAPPY IMAGINE THEM AS ZOMBIES

[@cursedsummoner]

You mentioning Minecraft and an interest in zombie games. This was me a couple of years ago, after playing Minecraft for a long time I was looking for something new and came across a group of guys, youtube channel Achievement Hunter, playing 7 days to die. The game was recommended to me by coworker a few years before, at the time I brushed it off since I was still having fun with Minecraft. After watching the Achievement Hunters paly I knew I had to check it out, and it scare the pants off me the first time. Since then I mostly played with friends, strength in numbers and it's more fun surviving in a group rather than alone. Here's me going on, what I wanted to ask is, if you've heard of the game. It does play into the power fantasy you mention, it does however come with it's own difficulties. If you haven't, my suggestion is to look it up.

[@visvivalaw]

No genre is ever over saturated. It's a cycle. Someone makes a good movie in [genre]. It makes money. So many others make a similar movie in [genre], most of which suck because most movies suck. And because of that a bunch of movies in [genre] fail and movie critics blame the public being tired of [genre] movies. So movies in [genre] stop being made for a while until someone dares to make a good movie in [genre] and the cycle repeats. No one is ever, ever tired of good movies.

[@Corvid285]

I highly recommend the show ‘In the Flesh’ to those who want a more meaningful zombie story about what happens if zombies were cured and how they integrate back into their past lives.

[@lessonzlrnd]

Thank you my friend for your commitment and vision. I thoroughly enjoy your storytelling.

[@connorgahan5197]

ONE CHAPTER IN ZOMBIE ZOOLOGY IS BAISCILY WORLD BUILDING ABOUT ZOMBIE ANIMALS [DESTORYING THEIR BRAIN DOES NOT STOP THEM]

[@laramaria2908]

I really liked this video. I think more videos of your commentary on mythos would be incredible. Could I give a suggestion? Godzilla (especially the first one, 1954) He is like the ultimate dragon.

[@connorgahan5197]

IN THE OTHER DEAD AND ZOMBIE ZOOLOGY ONLY ANIMALS CAN BECOME ZOMBIES BUT DESTORYING THEIR BRAINS/BRAINSTEMS DOES NOT STOP THEM AND THEY CAN STILL FEEL SIMPLE EMOTIONS LIKE RAGE FEAR AND PLEASURE IF THEY USED TO BE DOMESTIC PETS OR CAPTIVE WILDLIFE, THEY WOULD FEEL RAGE FEAR AND EVEN REMORSE IF YOU EVER HAD PETS, YOU KNOW THEY CAN FEEL ENRAGED AND REMORSEFULL

[@connorgahan5197]

IIN TWO OTHER CHAPTERS IN ZOMBIE ZOOLOGY ABOUT ZOMBIE PITBULLS AND ZOMBIE MOOSE DESTORYING THEIR BRAINS DOES NOT STOP THEM AND THEY CAN FEEL SIMPLE EMOTIONS INCLUDING RAGE FEAR AND PLEASURE

[@ericstevenss4533]

Slow, relentless, sometimes clumsy, but ever-hungry… the zombie(s) seems like a human manifestation of death and our fear of it. I think that’s why so many approaches (horror, action, humor, etc) are attached to the genre. It’s all ways we cope with mortality.

[@chadparsons50]

This was a devastating critique. Well done.

[@juancampos1164]

i love your analysis (all you vides). While your zombie analysis is complete, you have to emphasize that “we are the zombies”, nothing more, nothing less. It has always been about how we react morally, regardless if we have hunger for humans or not. Some good movies are ‘Shawn of the Dead’- comedic, “Dawn of Dead’ Synder -commercialism, but also ‘WWZ’ , “Open Grave”, and “28 days…. [Series]” about confining to decisions about our biology. - Honestly, one of the great zombie movie is; “The Battery”, where it shows 2 viewpoints of morality of the unaffected (and very little of zombies). And for the survival, apocalyptic scenario, you don’t need that, just take our world as it is, all it shows is the emptiness failure of us, what we’ve done, and opening our eyes.

[@connorgahan5197]

ZOMBIES ARE DEHUMANZING IF THE ZOMBIES ARE ALREADY NONHUMAN TO BEGAIN WITH IT IS EVEN MORE DEHUMAZING

[@robensmonteau161]

How to at least stop some of that selfish behavior. "Every life you safe is one less zombie to deal with."

[@connorgahan5197]

IN ONE OTHER CHAPTER IN ZOMBIE ZOOLOGY IS ZOMBIE SHEEP/GOATS AND DESTROYING THEIR BRAINS DOES NOT STOP THEM

[@maplebob23]

Even though George Romero gets credit for the invention of the modern zombie, Night of the Living Dead is just a loose remake of Plan 9 From Outer Space.

[@WeabooMilk]

11:46 this movie popped into my head earlier today for some reason o.O

[@romanmanner]

Part of the fascination has to come from a fear of civilizational collapse lodged in the collective unconscious. Whether it's a nuclear war, a economic meltdown, a pandemic, an asteroid/comet, terrorism, or most likely for all of us - climate change - we are all surrounded by the notion that civilization can collapse. The zombie genre provides a study of 'and then what?' How do we survive without civilization? How will people act? Can we be civil to each other or will it be all against all? Like the video says, zombies are a familiar mechanic that both causes the collapse and prevents any civilization reconstruction. But I maintain that decades of enduring this fear, especially in the West, has created a market or desire to explore what the 'time and space after the fall of civilization' would look like. Edit: Also, much of this genre is American. Of course it's going to emphasize hyper individualism, extreme aggression, and the belief that violence is both inevitable and also a legitimate way to solve all problems absent the state. My country is an extremely strange place populated by the deluded, the violent, and the stupid - all trying to 'win at life.' The zombie genre here is an escapist fantasy.

[@heartsalive3157]

I love that episode Epidemiology.

[@malcolmxparis7158]

There are many iterations on the theme. but Romero had it spot on IMHO in both Night of the Living Dead and Dawn of the Dead. The zombie is a mindless, soulless creature driven by nothing but its own selfish hunger. The automatic inference is that their behavior is driven by an infection that controls the brain. Its only desire, their only function is to endlessly try to consume and infect others. I was never more reminded of Zombies in Real Life than looking at video of the U.S. Capital on Jan 6th. Those images could have easily come from World War Z.

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

It’s the ultimate expression of fear of the mob , fear of the other but with easy answers .

[@TheJudgeandtheJury]

In high school I wrote my first screenplay which I threw away on a zombie apocalypse, it was pretty much The Last Of Us, The Road, I Am Legend(in terms of apocalypse sense) and 28 Days Later. I liked Zack Snyder’s take on zombies in his remake of Dawn Of The Dead the best and it’s messages towards consumer society as you have mentioned in the video. Great upload as always. Looking forward to more content.