How (Not) To Use Banjo Tablature // banjo vlog #3

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[@lynnforbes8050]

You're talking to me for sure. My crutch, (tabs) has turned into an almost permanent necessity. But you nailed it right on. I know better too. I've got to look away from the book. Thanks

[@josephobrien991]

I never knew people didn't memorize the song. That is how I always use tab. However, there are many banjo players who seem adamant about steering people away from using any tab whatsoever. Their thinking is that everyone should just listen to the song on slow and figure it out for ourselves. Some say learn to just pick out the melody and then add rolls to that. IDK. If I had an academic musical background maybe that would be the way to go, but I do not. I don't really feel the need to reinvent the wheel, I just want to drive. I'm not the fastest driver, and I'm not an automotive engineer. But I do learn how to get where I'm going. Although turning down a side street to get to the same destination every now and again can be interesting, and it's ALL fun!

[@josephobrien991]

@@johnschneider4160 Dude, I'm no JD Crowe, but I can play. I taught myself by listening to the songs and using the accompanying tabs. Sure, you can learn by listening and watching your teacher. These days that teacher is often on video. It's all about practice. Tabs help you learn the song. Now, if I had studied music, and knew all the ways it all fits together, then maybe I'd have no need for it. But tabs get me there quicker. As long as I can drink a few beers in the yard and pick out a few songs with the fellas, or even the ever present band in the box, I'm cool. Take care, man. And enjoy yer Paddy's day!

[@michaelmcrobert2940]

hi there joe I've been playing a few years now and initially stuck like glue to tab and was very hard on myself for the slightest error , then put a bit of effort into.learning some scales major,pentatonic,blues and a couple of different minors kind of relaxed me a little on the tab front as if a section didn't feel comfy to me i used my scale knowledge to the point i could play more freely and have a few options also let me feel i had put my own admittedly small mark on it,just a thought mate,new to this channel and really enjoying hearing other pickers have the same problems as me haha happy picking

[@lajjas9707]

This is soooo needed. I look at the tab for a song and then play by ear after learning a few measures. Sometimes i do it "wrong" just to realize it's not per say wrong, but... different. It's still the same tune, it just has a bit of me in it.

[@richardweill1384]

I do the reverse. I play it by ear (perhaps using a reference for an unusual chord progression) and only look at the tab afterwards, to see if there’s something in the tab I might like to borrow. Then again, I rarely try to learn a song unless I’m already familiar with the melody.

[@matak99]

That's gold Jerry, GOLD. Going to start doing it this way, thanks.

[@mikeseaton1920]

Loving these new format videos, keep them up!

[@BanjoBumbleBee]

My process is usually something like. • Hear a song I like • Look up a few tabs • Learn the tab while listening to the song on repeat obsessively • Once I've memorised it I'll spice it up with some variations or adaptations that sound "right" to me

[@esa6321]

I started with just the three first points when just starting playing the banjo, but after getting better, i added the fourth point in. I'm 6 months into learning and it's really helpful into making something recorded hundreds of times into my own song.

[@rickt7078]

You are so right. The minute I put the tab down and memorized the music it became a lot of fun.

[@genemaughan1046]

Really good way to look at learning new songs. Thank you 👍

[@johnscott8625]

Thank you Eli! That was great!😃

[@doesleapfarm]

Excellent advice. Thank you.

[@peterbates3973]

Great subject! As a guitarist I took up the banjo around 10:years ago, an then put it away for this same reason I felt that I was frustrated that I needed to always have the tab there in front of me and couldn’t play much without it. This time I’m using videos and only use the tab as a reference.

[@lenniereagan2362]

Thanks, Eli. I appreciate you explaining tablature and what I am really supposed to be doing!

[@michaelmcrobert2940]

thanks for that eli great video mate I've been playing for a while now and initially stuck to tab like it was the law of the land after a while it became a bit of a weight round my shoulders trying to replicate anothers version of a tune,.once i got into scales a bit further that enabled me to have a bit more confidence in learning by ear and your perfectly correct in that psychology is a big part of the learning process,anyways up great work and greetings from scotland to all pickers .

[@Atla57]

Love the vlogs! We are in a golden era of tablature, I feel so fortunate to be learning banjo with all of these resources at my fingertips. Using these resources correctly is worth pondering and discussing. Great insights, thanks for making these.

[@jamesrichards9441]

Great guidance!

[@SwissBanjo]

I totally understand and agree. That is what I sometimes do. Look at the tabs and try to think how it might sound. Then check the recording. And only then grab the banjo and try 😊

[@rexheater2865]

This is spot on. I learned a few songs using only tab, but quickly realized that I learned them much faster and more efficiently when I hear it played, preferably demonstrated on video. Once I learn it and tweak the arrangement to my liking, I create my own tab and use it only to refresh my memory if I haven't played it for a while.

[@BrandonW2220]

Thanks for the advice. That is ( as of now WAS) me to a "t". Looking forward to things getting better.

[@DanAshby]

This is so important. As a U.K. player starting out 27 years ago with very limited access to the recordings I learnt almost all the tunes I know without ever hearing them. Many of the tabs had very poor timing information and as a consequence I played almost all the tunes very ‘wrong’ whilst not being that wrong as far as the tab went. I’m only now going back to fix some of that. It’s now so easy to hear them, there’s no excuse for not listening 🙉

[@bickill]

Great video. Since I finished your 30 days course I've basically been reading/playing (I use the term playing very loosely) at the same time and been stuck. Time to switch it up

[@robertmayer6866]

Excellent, thanks for the tips

[@stephenweade7487]

This was an awesome video... and I have gone down the tab road.. which is fine as you say as a reference.. however when I wanted to play the song I needed the damn tab lol...tab dependency lol!!.. great advice

[@gerrymadigan3658]

I've just completed a banjo course with B B Bowness (from Mile Twelve) where she demonstrated the tune, played it slowly, and then evaluated our progress. No tablature involved. I was a little bit skeptical at first, but after the very first lesson I could not believe how rapidly I picked up the tune. It has improved my playing immensely. I've always found reading tabs to be very stifling and restrictive to my playing. Her method was fabulous. The final master class with guest Tony Trischka was simply outstanding. Not a tab to be seen, just playing banjo. As the old woman in North Carolina said to John and Alan Lomax when asked how she knew what notes to play on the banjo (as she was not reading any music), "shucks, there are no notes to a banjo, you just play it!"

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

Yep, plenty of ways to do things!

[@danielbarger5147]

Im new to playing the banjo, however, I played piano, organ and keyboards until nerve damage brought that to a screeching halt. I am an excellent sight reader and relied on that skill heavily for about 30 years until I played in a group that played almost exclusively by ear. My playing style changed for the better and I actually enjoyed playing more when I was not tied to the sheet music. Great video and excellent advice.

[@pacificcoastmodelworks1928]

This is really, really good. I often encourage beginners to avoid tab until they get a little comfort with the instrument. Simply use it as a reference once you know what it wants to sound like.

[@ColeHulden]

Youre a legend, thank you for this vid it helped me a lot.

[@Gigitobanjo]

This is perfect! I am always telling my students that tablature is a tool to help with music, and it is not the music itself. People addicted to tablature cannot understand how the instrument truly works, all the peculiarities, what sounds good or bad in a certain part of the fretboard ... Reading tablature kills creativity and the art of exploring the possibilities of the instrument, learning from mistakes , create your own arrangement and variations. the result of this is that many people can never find their own way of playing the banjo, which can be unique and incredible.

[@brucesargeant6589]

This was a good one. We (folks learning the banjo on our own) need to hear it straight. Think about it...many of us don't have a gaggle of friends who play nor a good place to jam or even hear a jam these days. The Internet has provided this amazing resource and it is easy to find any song and learn it. In the distant past, I would have a book or some past lesson tabs that I was working on...and working on, etc. Its not too hard, like you say, to learn to play by sight reading. But once you can, what next? Once I discovered what jamming was and actually doing it, I knew something had to change. I would go to a jam with my "book" of songs in Tab, then try to find the page and play along. Quickly realized that was dumb and had to do something else. In the end, what Tab gives us a resource to go back to when we need to refresh our memory or get started on a song we can't just can't figure out. After some practice, we realize that we have a library of licks and phrases that you mix and match. So now for me at least, when I hear a new song, I just want to know the key and chord progression...once I get that, I'm good. If I like a song, I'll listen to it a bunch , get the lyrics and chords and maybe find some good tab for it and work out a melody lead...tab does help get a head start on that process. I still can't watch you play a song, with no tab, and get much from it unless I know most of the licks you are playing already...I do like to have the tab to go back to...haven't figured out how to "watch and memorize" without it just yet.

[@Xt1000]

My advice. Learn those chords at the top of the Tabs first and the different locations on the neck for each chord in the D shape, F shape and bar shape.. Then look at each measure.Then learn the lick for each chord. There are tons of licks for each chord up and down the neck. I suggest Tony Trischkas hotlicks book and Alan Mundes lick a minute CD.

[@kirknorman2403]

Thanks great video

[@midnighttoker8663]

From the very first video the way you talk to the camera has been exceedingly natural and engaging, despite only uploading "playing" videos for a long time previously. It's not until you try that you realise how hard it is.

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

Thanks for noticing! It’s definitely a different skill and takes a few tries before it feels right

[@markglore7196]

Very well said!👍

[@joesurmick3299]

Spot on

[@mauricemagill3250]

Hi Eli. Love all your videos I have been learning the banjo for about 3 months and have followed your 30 days of banjo which was a very useful resource by the way. My question is about reading music. Can banjo music be played by following guitar or piano sheet music?. I would love you to cover this issue in a video. Cheers

[@paulblanchard14607]

I remember when I did Doug’s Tune,I listened to it vary closely and then used different tabs to get me over the parts that I was struggling with, I mixed it up keeping the melody in check and made my own arrangement. Sometime,s I don’t Even look at the tab anymore I use tab as A reference and beak away from it as soon as I can. I haven’t had to use the tab for Doug’s Tune in about two months I play it at least twice a week now

[@SJWoodworks]

If I have to use tabs, sometimes I find it useful to memorize the last measure first, then pair the last two measures, etc., and proceed through the song backwards. Along the way, if I see a forward roll that I think I like as an alternating roll instead (or whatever), I can just memorize it my way and keep going.

[@jeremytrieloff]

Yeah, I'm on board with this. Great to have those books or print outs for reference but for entire tunes, just go with your ear on it. Learn to listen. Also, I found videos such as Eli's more useful. I started before KZbin was around by watching Tony Trischka's instructional DVD's and those got me further than tabs. It's actually the same for guitar and mandolin for me. Just give the chords and I'm off at this point.

[@joshuastlouis6241]

I am new to playing music and the banjo. I like your videos. Thank you. You and hanky are my favorate, he does some fun tutorials too. I know it might be hard, but I would like to play with you and not the same thing. I was wondering if you could make a play along video where I play something different then you. I did exactly what you were saying in this video before you made it, was great validation and I just like the feeling of certain song. I made my own version of cabbage and it's like having my own song stuck in my head haha. I think it would be rightous to play a video of you and have the tabature of my part to play while we switch roles and stuff. Maybe you have that on your channel already and I haven't found it yet. I got lost having fun with your 30 days of banjo and haven't finished it yet. I ended up with a super fun song to play doing my own thing. Anyways if you already have a video up like that sorry if I missed it. There are probably videos out there like that but, it wouldn't be the same with out you :-)

[@michaelwsheeler]

Just stumbled across your channel today and am thinking about joining your Patreon. What do you think about the software Tabledit? And tef files? I use it and find it helpful even though it is machine sounding in tempo and note emphasis but it allows me to do what you are talking about here. Really like your style of teaching. Many thanks for dedicating so much time to teaching. We are lucky.

[@Foxrock321]

I’m on day 12 of your 30 day course..and I downloaded the tab of the lessons..this video should be included..I learn the lesson by playing with my eyes closed...

[@jbmessy3869]

Thank you I needed the reminder because tabs are such a big crutch

[@mattlappinen5029]

I try only to use tablature only to learn patterns. or learning unfamiliar scale. they are only suggestions as to where to put your fingers. If you can read the music and know your finger board you can find choices of where to play. I never really progressed in my abilities until I forced myself to read the music.

[@billsteinke9980]

I know you’re 100% correct - but as a 6month noob it feels like you just kicked my favorite “crutch” out from under me and beat me with it. I would rather be a Banjo Player than a tab reader!! So thx!!

[@jimyoung7511]

Thank you

[@datapro007]

That is very helpful. Thank you! Is there much banjo music written in regular musical notation rather than tablature? My guess is no because of the origins of banjo music.

[@Kstevensmd]

Great video on an important topic. I love tab, but it is only a tool.

[@Jacob_Carroll]

This isn’t the music! Nice one! 5:12 is like if Susan Sontag wrote about tabs/notated music.

[@dr.dougdillner835]

I am on day three of your 30 Days of Banjo. Since I am new to this instrument, I found your Vblog here interesting in that you don't mention it in these first three lessions. Maybe you will in the coming lessions. Seems an important thing you are covering in the Vblog.

[@frankbbe81]

Are you sure you have enough banjo bridges? great tips brother, thanks

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

I can stop any time I want!

[@richardweill1384]

Tab transcribes one recording of a song (by a banjo player who perhaps never played it that way again). Does memorizing all the notes on a tab sheet really teach you to play the song? Have you studied the chord progression and the melody? Does memorized tab help you play backup at a jam? What if the song is going to be played in another key (like D, where a capo doesn’t help you)? If we’re supposed to practice the skills we need, isn’t it more important to learn the song in the way that best translates to the setting in which we’re most likely to play it? Personally, I consider tab a reference - a source to be studied; a place from which to steal an idea or two - not the version of the song I need learn verbatim. If I’m staying true to the chord progression and the melody, and playing it in a solid bluegrass rhythm and with a bit of ornamentation, I’m playing the song (even if there’s no tab matching everything I’m playing).

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

Yep this is why in the video I refer to it as a reference. Learning things note for note is a good way to learn the language, then you can speak it on your own. There’s a lot of skills to develop, and they all do (and don’t do) different things, memorizing things is just one of them. Improvisation is also an important skill, but if I don’t have any experience with the language then I’m not going to have much to draw from. So this video doesn’t solve every problem, just one solution to one problem.

[@blackbirdpie217]

I learned with tab but now, so many years later I'm terrible at reading it. It slows you down so much it makes everything difficult again just like when you were a beginner. It's only for beginners. And you have to memorize. Once you get it to flow you start to feel the patterns. It's not for playing, it's only for clues for your brain to get started. Then dump it.

[@SpencerRaybourne]

Starting banjo after being a classical musician for most of my life gives me a slightly different perspective. In my world there are different reasons to play a piece of music. Memorization is not always needed or necessary. And too early memorization can codify mistakes and improper playing technique. Given that banjo/bluegrass comes from a largely aural tradition it makes sense that memorization is always the goal. But for me memorization is a step in a multi-stage process and is itself a several step process. Being able to play through while looking at the tab' or standard notation is simply a part of a larger process. IMHO. Okay maybe not so H.

[@johnapicella3547]

Exactly.

[@Cookecap]

Yeah!!!! 👍✊💪

[@judwatkins9478]

Eli, Your videos certainly make sense, but having heard this one, I want to ask: Are you saying we all eventually, "play by ear"? I use tab until I feel I have a tune under my fingers. Then I make it my own w/licks and etc. When you have a new piece to learn, do you just listen and sort it out w[o sheets?

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

Not everyone eventually plays by ear, but anyone can! Tablature is extremely useful, but can become a crutch. If someone wants to be able to play without tab then they have to start playing more without the tab. That can mean memorization or trying to figure something out by ear, but if someone wants to break away from tablature then at some point they'll have to take that leap, or more often a small step. That said, not everyone cares about playing by ear, but I personally haven't looked at tablature to learn something in years, though it was very helpful to me in the beginning.

[@gegloos6837]

Something I would like to mention (yes I know, I'm a year late) once I got to the intermediate stage, I wasn't using tablature to learn the song, just like he said here, but I ld look at it (still do!) And I would find the licks, learn them I would look at where the licks are used, how their used and the theory and ideas behind them. Also, you might be asking yourself, everybody always says be your own musician, why am I even needing these tabs at all then? Well, you can take ideas from other people, like a certain lick used a certain part of a song, that's perfectly fine combine it with some other stuff from other places, and you got an arrangement that's you because you simply used the ideas ever so slightly differently. Also, no matter how hard you try, you will never sound exactly like Earl Scruggs and nobody will ever sound exactly like you. Everyone has some unique thing they do when they play no matter how small of an effect it makes. I also encourage you to make your own arrangements instead of using someone else's, this optimizes your amount of practice on making arrangements, an essential when playing banjo

[@moritzengel2735]

I have a problem with my tone. When I'm playing Scruggs songs or any heavy bluegrass tune I have no problem and everything sounds alright. But when I try to play quiter or melodic style then I have a lot string noice. I don't know why that is and I am looking for an answer.

[@pegloughran3700]

What am I missing? The video quality has changed a little but the sound seems similar. I like it just fine.

[@jimcalamita507]

As important as his message is, I can't help but be distracted by the fact that he has 3 banjos on the couch next to him and parts of a fourth on the table (squirrel!)

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

Can't have too many!

[@jimcalamita507]

@@EliGilbertBanjo my comment was obviously made out of jealousy 😉. Keep up the great work!

[@pegloughran3700]

Would you like to talk about composing on the banjo even when you are a newbie?

[@paulatB2B]

Interesting. Almost philosophical. Thanks.

[@MrEpmonroe]

Pay attention, beginners.

[@scottziegler4238]

Unfortunately, a lot of banjo players are trying to be Earl Scruggs and imitate everything he does.

[@EliGilbertBanjo]

If that makes them happy, great! Not my cup of tea but also not really my business

[@scottziegler4238]

@@EliGilbertBanjo The first breaks I could play at tempo were Scruggs breaks, but you need to listen to everybody you can and find your own sound.