How Our SOIL MICROBIOTA Affects Plant Health - Ep. 189

We headed up north towards Geneva, New York to meet up with Kyle Wickings, assistant professor of Soil Arthropod Ecology and Turfgrass Entomology at Cornell University, to take a peek at what micro and macro-organisms are living in our soils and how our gardening and agricultural practices can affect their health-and ultimately soil and plant health.
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[@sharonknorr1106]

Well, I loved this. Microbiology was one of my favorite classes in high school and college. It was one of the fields that drew me to becoming a Medical Technologist (now known as Clinical Laboratory Scientists). Got a kid microscope when I was in elementary school and was fascinated by the slides, including some microfauna such as seen here today. So I assume you were at the Geneva Agricultural Station - we used to live in Phelps, about a 15 minute drive from there and went by that complex every time we went to Geneva. Thank you for this. It is disturbing sometimes to hear folks make very definitive statements about what to do and not to do with your soil, as if we have all the answers right now. But scientists are always aware of how much we don't know and so keep moving forward to new discoveries to help us do better. Thank you to all those who spend so many hours hunched over microscopes looking at and cataloguing all of these findings. Counting tiny things on grids is not a fun job, but the information is invaluable. That's how we used to do blood counts way back when I started in the lab, before instrumentation came along - a pipette, a grid, a microscope and a hand counter. Yep, I'm an old lady now, but this stuff still excites me, as you can tell.

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Yes indeed. Kyle works up at the Geneva Agricultural Station. It was our first time up there and we were on our way to Phelps to visit Coldwater Pond Nursery (highly recommend btw). Thanks for adding your comments. Glad this type of stuff still gets you going! ABL (Always Be Learning) :)

[@teresarubel2182]

This posting was what I've been waiting for. Bite-sized offerings on soil health, the soil food web and general biology of the soil bar the inevitable science talk (which I can easily get elsewhere) is very much appreciated. Thank you. This was enjoyable. If you can follow this up with more related themes, yes please🙏 .

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Glad you can appreciate this. They are doing so many interesting studies that are still inconclusive because they are works-in-progress, but will surely be tapping into Kyle's knowledge base more as his team works through some experiments.

[@nachig4754]

Love love love this video, promising to know that is people with knowledge trying to learn more about the magical world we have under our feet, and "beginners" gardeners like myself we know so very little, thank you Summer

[@FlockFingerLakes]

You're most welcome. Glad it was insightful and useful.

[@michellewolf2659]

I always enjoy your videos on both channels. Every day when I wake up I hope there’s a new one. Thanks for all the info and enjoyment. Enjoy the Land ❤

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Nice to hear you enjoy the content on both channels and that it can be useful :)

[@rjaquaponics9266]

Great questions! Golf course.... yes, we have a 115 year old golf course that is now a certified Organic garden farm. It makes no sense to me! Where did the "cides" go? It's magic!

[@assomptaalbertini1727]

It was great to hear someone speak abt the no dig method which I learned from Charles Dowding. I wonder if it is the same for those who lives in very dry area where the top of the surface is powdery white, may be lacking of organic matter but deep down it contains great organic matter. Thanks for all of your hard work.

[@AJTwitchel]

Fascinating. Just being in an area I swear it’s possible to smell good soil health.

[@gardengatesopen]

YES PLEASE!! RAISE MY MOWER HEIGHT!!! It's so true. We had to give our mower a wheel makeover so we could mow at 6 inches. To be honest, it was a bit more than I wanted to spend. It would have been so easy for the manufacturer to simply add a few more notches in the "raising height" area & then it would have been simple. It just makes sense to give us more options on a lawn mower.

[@FlockFingerLakes]

1 more vote for a raised mower!

[@jessheppell750]

This was very interesting! Thanks for all the great questions/ answers.

[@Neilhuny]

Video hasn't yet started (damn those adverts, Google!) and I need to say soil microbiota are completely fascinating and totally essential that we care for it

[@harrisonmatthewj]

Amazing how little we understand soil biology. It seems like we have historically treated it like a medium which only serves to hold water and nutrients but so much more to understand. Thanks for sharing !

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Nice to know what's under our feet is alive! Well, if we treat it well enough. Really shifts one's perspective.

[@judymckerrow6720]

Thank you Ms. Summer that was very interesting. 🌸💚🙃

[@loveandoneness.n.e.t]

Best!!! Most super informative ever!

[@cefcat5733]

His job was not listed in the 'Career Book.' It must be thrilling to be a pioneer and still have the comforts of our time. Is there an underground over-population problem too? More power to the underground engineers!

[@charlesbale8376]

Fabulous information, I have spent the last five years trying to understand the soil in my food forest to improve productivity.

[@rjaquaponics9266]

long grass causes mole and mice to over populate. Short grass during the snow pack is essential.

[@glennahoki6476]

One big issue if adding amendments to the soil is how it affects water absorption, drainage, and movement. I still think it's better to add your compost and mulch over the top of the soil when planting trees and larger shrubs.

[@Ash-xx5zd]

Great conversation! Really enjoyed.

[@jameswinnett4012]

Nerds! LOL! I love that you're digging down on this subject! No pun intended. ;-) I so wish our world could see these videos and get an understanding of the under world below our feet. I have only recently begun to think about something other than what is visible above ground and thank you folks for being one of the pioneers to bring more light to subjects that will be key to saving our planet. Standing ovation please! :-)

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Glad we were able to unearth more information for you! Every pun intended. :)

[@raselbx]

This is really great subject matter. I'm merely happy when I see worms in my garden's soil here in The Bronx. I am appreciative of your interest in all aspects of plant care and that you share this in a concise, yet interesting manner (IMO). Peace to the Flocks.

[@olliepinetree82]

Reminds me of the quotation, "Humans, despite their pretentions, sophistication, and accomplishments - owe their existence to a six inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains." - Paul Harvey

[@nikolaristic9509]

Thank you for sharing light on an amazing subject. The future is in soil 🕷️🦗🐛🐦🦫

[@johngault8688]

Love these soil videos👍

[@l...]

Perfect 👍🏼

[@Tminus89]

Getting people interested in something they can't see (directly) can be quite hard, you guys seem to manage fine though :)

[@atticbrowser9698]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@jennybuzek2091]

A very interesting glimpse into soil health and microbes

[@rjaquaponics9266]

Green space would do much better with a very light top dressing of healthy compost vs "cides" and NPK applications. Healthy compost would promote healthy green space instead of killing everything and relying on NPK . Top dressing compost and then aerating the grass would work great! Healthy soil only exist while plants/grass are growing.

[@MaryDavisBrown]

😊😊😊

[@nancylamarche5570]

Really hope there is another video coming to actually discuss the impact of soil from the asian jumping worms you quickly referenced - I have them in NH and trying to figure out how to live with them for gardens and lawn

[@FlockFingerLakes]

That will be the next video though spoiler alert: If you have them-you have them-and there's not much one can do at this time unfortunately.

[@frankiemcdonald6031]

Good one!

[@redechelon37]

👌Choice content. TY!

[@Yeans-fw3xm]

Beautiful video 🎉❤

[@peterfrance702]

Excellent.

[@moradmoradi8518]

Thanks!

[@SlackerU]

Interesting timing as I too have been into the topic. I was in my mounded garden the other week & there were trillions of little flightless fly looking bugs, some sort of breeding-swarm or something. I might have to get me a funnel or two to play with. 10/10 I'll have to check out the bug book. I have an OSSF(on-site sewage treatment) & it is literally an aerobic-bacteria-colony that takes 12-16 week to grow & less than 24 hours to destroy. When the population is low the system produces lots of smelly hydrogen-sulfide from the mineral-chemistry lacking biochemistry-workers.

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Fascinating on the on-site sewage treatment!

[@timgarner1957]

It's interesting how things are changing in horticulture..looking beyond plants to better benefit our environment. There's a whole world around us we don't completely understand... Thanks for these educational episodes. .I hope someday you will have a plant named after you..like your friend with the rose..lol .

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Ahhh that's so sweet. The closest I've gotten to a plant named after me is my friend from Steve's Leaves. Named a cultivar Anthurium 'Dark Rayne'.... my alter-ego!

[@davidlarsen2184]

Can you replace the wheels on your mower with larger ones to raise the mowing height?

[@terrym2210]

Name of book he was holding up that good for home set up please.

[@SeekingBeautifulDesign]

Thanks for the video. It's so fun to see the "star" curious about the subject rather than reading from a script-chasing an errant hickory nut or being grossly fascinated by bugs that liquefy and drink other bugs. Did you go further into the ideas around non-native plants' effects on soil microbiota? You didn't really get an answer. It'd be great to see how your work with permaculture guilds dovetails with native/non-native plants and soil. (Apple trees and echinacea?) And even more complex-how does a chinese/american chestnut hybrid affect the Finger Lakes soil vs a straight chinese chestnut? And given the almost complete death of the American chestnut, what does that mean for the soil biota they supported? Are those biota lost, or will they recolonize new chestnuts after a century of chestnut desert?

[@gardengatesopen]

I've been asking myself these same questions about a different invasive plant species the Japanese Ligustrum. I'm down South in Central Texas, and this plant is creating havoc among our native landscapes. It's extremely good at its allopathic game. The leaves make their own glyphosate. That part of the plant has been studied. It's clear the soil has changed. I often wonder HOW MUCH & in WHAT WAYS it has changed the soil biome. And then there are the vast spreading of its roots. They go way beyond any dripline these shrubs have. I have seen how they literally choke the roots of larger trees, eventually killing them. I wonder if the roots also emit an allopathic chemical. I suspect they do... All these things are having a huge effect on what is growing - which hardly anything else. Not even those pesky weeds which most gardeners hate to see are growing within 15-20 feet of an established ligustrum. At this point, I would LOVE to see some Johnson Grass, Dallas Grass, or even a Dandelion growing in what is now a Ligustrum Forest in our area!! But as of right now, the Ligustrum Forest floor is bare, save all those glyphosate laden leaves... Aside from pulling out every ligustrum for miles around (which would literally take a large landscaping team YEARS to accomplish), I wish I knew how to choose the right things to help the regenerate of the soil biome of these areas.

[@SeekingBeautifulDesign]

​@@gardengatesopen Sadly, your situation is just the start as climate change brings many more flora and fauna to your area. Also, as a planet, we aren't good at keeping things in their own continents, so expect more. I'm in the US Midwest, so deal with cooler temperatures than you. But maybe the following 3 examples: 1. Garlic mustard-a broccoli relative from Europe and Asia. It emits fungicidal chemicals from it's roots wrecking the local soil biota and making other plants grow less well. It can homogenize a forest floor. It is also very nutritious and tastes good. So, in true human extractive fashion, I've just pulled and eaten every bit that I see, and now I can't find any more. Greed is great at destroying ecosystems. Perhaps discovering a use for Ligustrum that makes it endangered....( it is used in some cultures for an herbal medicine...start the next fad!) 2. Black walnut (and family). Secretes a chemical from its roots that distrupts the germination of other plants although not necessarily the soil biota. Walnuts are tasty and the wood is prized, so there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of people testing plants under black walnuts. A large list has been developed of plants that do well. But, those plants are largely native so have had time to adapt to the walnut roots. Summer would be horrified I'm sure, but ligustrum is likely not invasive in central and south Japan, so if there are useful plants from that area, you could make a guild. Soil microbiome would tend towards that area. Also, Texas isn't known for dense forests, but if you can find plants that grow well enough to provide dense shade, that ecosystem may be ligustrum proof when mature and little light reaches the forest floor. 3. Armageddon. (Summer I'm sure will ban me for this) I've often felt that all solutions are to be found in popular movies. From the Lord of the Rings-When you have a Saruman problem, bring a more destructive force (rushing water from a broken dam). It makes everything better ;) or from various Godzilla movies... If your soil is being poisoned and local vegetation smothered perhaps something that rehabilitates the soil (e.g. nitrogen fixing) and smothers everything. Plant kudzu. (Please don't). But perhaps something that's more potent can balance the ligustrum. But heed Rudyard Kipling's "Dane-geld" "once you have paid him the Danegeld/ You never get rid of the Dane" In the same spirit, black walnut and pecan emit allelopathic root exudates. Will they push out or defend against ligustrum? Less crazy options: -Goats can deforest up to maybe 5' and can handle some noxious things. -profitable biochar has the potential to strip an ecosystem. Europe lost it's forests due in a large part to charcoal making. If you can harness greed, you can get an industry to drive ligustrum to extinction in your area. If you want a more life affirming treatment of the subject, I posted a video on mixing native pollinator and caterpillar support with useful non-natives. It focuses on a design solution to combine aesthetics with functionality.

[@gardengatesopen]

@SeekingBeautifulDesign ummm... Thanks... ? Yes, I'm well aware of the global warming, the many invasive species of both flora AND fauna which we humans seem to never stop creating problems with, and certainly the allopathic properties of a lot of plants. Including the Black Walnut Tree, etc. I'm pretty sure no one in Texas is ready to give up our forested areas just because the Japanese Ligustrum is trying to move in. Yes, I DID say "our forested areas". I'm guessing this surprises you! So here's an eye opener for you- Texas is not all deserts & dust like the old westerns make out. The biodiversity of this state is as extreme & very different from one section of the state to the other. The desert is over in West Texas. It does cover NOT the entire state. For instance, up in North Texas there is an abundance of native Live Oaks and prairies. Just under that on the East side is the Piney woods, it stretches all down the East side to the Gulf of Mexico. THAT is a Pine Forest. Not too far from me in Central Texas there is a very large section of Maple Trees called The Lost Maples. THAT is a Maple Forest. I live among the Old Growth Live Oak Trees in a section of Texas known as The Hill Country. This is a heavily forested area of mostly Live Oaks, but we also have other trees too. An example is my own property. I have 5 trees on my small lot that are each over 200 years old. The section of my yard the ligustrum moved into has one of those old Oak trees on it, and that is where the ligustrum has been working on killing it for the past 15 years. And right now - it's working! Had I not been busy dealing with rheumatoid arthritis for the past 15 years, then I would have noticed the damage sooner. Unfortunately, what's done is done. And just like the jumping worms- I do not accept it. It will certainly NOT stay this way.

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Those are ongoing studies that they are doing but sadly, I just don't think there are enough people to do the research on those topics (native vs. non-native lawn, for instance).

[@SeekingBeautifulDesign]

@@FlockFingerLakes You'd probably know better from your time in academia, but most ag academic studies are funded from land grant universities and are based on what best helps the commercially dominant practices? So, there wouldn't be incentive for the non-commercially developed agricultural approaches. Would this be the place for citizen science groups? Maybe a simple count of soil diversity correlating counts with nearby plants across time and across a number of contributors. Maybe there could be results with enough data although any sort of controls would be tough. BTW, I've always thought that the ZNutty hazelnut farm would be an ideal interview for you. They are US experts, do their own breeding, are friendly, fun and in the Finger Lakes area. Hazelnut potential, biology and disease is a fascinating trio.

[@nikkivene8467]

I would love to know what happens to the microbiology/ flora of the soil when we cover our grass with cardboard to create a garden bed. Does the flora move? Does it die? Does it start eating away at the cardboard when the grass starts to die?

[@nikkivene8467]

Woo you talked about it!! Word. Thanks for the great interview/ tour!

[@stberchmans]

Does adding N-P-K to soil have a negative impact on soil microbiota?

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Very good question. Some say that synthetics do not promote microbes, but if you have organic-based NPK fertilizers it does not have a negative effect, but I would like to see more studies on that.

[@42apprentice]

I wonder if AI could do some of the grunt work on mite identification? But I guess it is all funding & time to develop such things in small academic research teams

[@FlockFingerLakes]

I suppose there are AI machines already to id plants, and bird song, etc. but someone has to be really, really dedicated to develop an AI app to ID microscopic mites. It's definitely a niche of a niche market! :)

[@latebloominghippie]

💚💚💚

[@PlantNative]

Leave the leaves to improve soil health.

[@gardengatesopen]

Ohhh gosh... I sorta thought y'all were going to get into the whole asian jumping worm subject. I was really hoping you would! There's so little information about what is happening with this invasive pest, which I only just realized in the past month are in parts of my property. There's even less information on how the soil is being changed by them. Except for, "it's just bad", & "no nutritional value for plants is left behind". Aside from the obvious lack of vegetation, BAD in what way? Like - are these worms leaving behind some kind of allopathic chemical too? AND How long does it take the soil biome to recover if this pest is actually removed? AND What can the average homeowner actually DO to help this process of soil recovery along? Nobody knows... It's like a bad ending to a bad movie. After not being able to garden for about a decade bcuz of rheumatoid arthritis, I'm finally able to get back out there and get the garden going again. I THOUGHT the plants were languishing simply because of not being tended to for so long. So, for the past 2 years, I've been trying to improve my soil. I'm a strong believer of your garden is only as good as your soil ! Feeding my soil, building my soil by adding mycelium & mushrooms, adding minerals, along with a host of other organic things. Well, apparently, I've just been feeding these dang worms!! And yes, the garden is STILL languishing. Weeds don't even grow!! I don't know how long they've been here, except they weren't there 12 years ago when I WAS gardening before. For anyone who thinks it's only a localized issue in certain areas, well, I do not think that is the case any longer. I'm in Central Texas, and I've recently been talking in comment sections all over YT with others about these dang worms, and its pretty clear they are all over the country! It's no longer just an East Coast problem. From coast to coast. From Canada, down to the Gulf of Mexico. & Just everywhere in between. They're EVERYWHERE!! I spoke with people in Florida who have them, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, California, Oregon, & Canada, and as we know, they were already pretty prevalent on the East coast. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and the mid-west states too. We've ALL got them!! One thing that's bugging me... If these horrible creatures have been hanging around for about 100 years (as I heard more than one researcher say) well then, WHY haven't we gardeners heard about them BEFORE we have an infestation?? Well.. That's neither here nor there when it comes time to hopefully eradicating them from at least my own yard, and then my closest neighbors yards too! I refuse to use poisons. I've got a strict NO CIDES POLICY at my house. Not that any cides would work on those darn silk covered cocoon eggs anyhow... (I'm kinda glad about that?) (That way others won't be poisoning their soils...) Perhaps theres a part 2 to today's video that gets into this subject? Because THAT would be really great!! Personally, I'm starting this quest with drenching the soil with the mustard water to bring the live worms to the surface. So far I have NOT found ANY of the good earthworms! I used to have plenty! I have been wondering if just adding dried mustard powder to the entirety of my yard will be changing the soil microbiome? I'm hoping the tiny creatures you showed today will just enjoy it as a food! But who knows... I will probably end up being the one yard on the block that smells like Octoberfest year round... So I'll drench the soil, section by section, and I'll be plucking those live worms up & euthanizing them. (SO GROSS!!! And they stink too!) THEN, after theyre dead, I will also be burning those worm bodies to make sure the eggs INSIDE THE WORMS will NOT EVER hatch later on. Ugh... The eggs... They are wrapped in a silk cocoon making them impenetrable to any chemicals. Which I suspect, includes any stomach acid from predators who eat the adults. In my own experiments, I euthanized a large adult worm using the hot sun & a tiny bit of water. I didn't want it to just dry up. Afterward, I looked at the worm. (Again - SO gross!!) The top portion of the worm (from the clitellum and above) was intact. And the lower portion - the majority of the tail was intact. But interestingly - A section in the middle, where the clitellum starts, and then the next 2 inches toward the tail - THAT section of the worm had completely dissintegrated! I don't know if it burst, or if it just melted. However it happened, this important section of the worm was destroyed. Just open mush. This 2 inch section just happens to be the same area where the eggs are made & located, as they await their release into the soil. This is where the future egg cocoons are carried inside the worm. Apparently they lay an average of at least 2 cocoons per week. They're just constantly churning out eggs all during the warm season. Ugh... An egg cocoon making machine! For my location, that COULD BE year round some years! Anyway - back to what happened with this worm... Here's the important part: The 2 inch middle section had burst open, thus releasing those eggs "into the wild". Ready or Not - here they come! And can you guess how many I saw? FOUR!! Four cocoons that looked exactly like all the researchers have described. They are compared to a peppercorn in size, shape, and color. And THAT is exactly what I saw, times four. Granted, I am not a scientist. Nor do I have a microscope to verify that what I saw were actual eggs. But, come on, it looked pretty obvious. It just made me realize just how difficult getting rid of these creatures will be. I'm possibly in for a fight for the rest of my live-long days! So yeah... Their species survival tactics ARE STRONG!! As for the soil... I've started solarizing small bits at a time to hopefully cook the eggs. I only have a small 15 x 15 foot area that receives full sun & that's only for 6 hours a day. The rest of my yard is a heavy tree canopy. The temperature between the 2 layers of clear plastic has been topping out at 158°f !! Finally I have the Texas heat working FOR me!! I leave the batch of soil & leaves in there for a minimum of 3 days to hopefully cook those coocons! From what I read, it takes 3 days to cook the eggs. But the research on this is very limited!! For instance, there's no details given on this "3 day" time spanse. Are all the researchers just repeating themselves on this point? (I don't know) They all say 3 days at 135°f, but they give no other details. Like, does this need to be constant continuos high temperatures ? Or If you're solarizing, this means the temperature drops during the night. At my house, right now in July, this temp drops to 85°f during the night. So - 158°f for 6 hours during the day, and then down to 85°f in the wee hours of the night, until it starts back up again during the day. That's a pretty big temperature fluctuation. The only constant changes that happen over the 3 day time span is the humidity inside the clear plastic pocket drops from 25% to 10%. I mean, at this point I'm thinking if I'm going to all this trouble, this just BETTER work!! I think I would even be OK with buying a second hand kitchen oven & hooking it up outside, & then just REALLY cooking those cocoons for 72 hours (or even longer) with no temperature fluctuations at night! (Ok, I'm a little extreme with this, I admit it. I AM CURRENTLY OBSESSED with getting these beasts OUT of my soil !!) But are continuous high temperatures necessary? I do not know. It SEEMS like it should be. But nobody is saying. I can't find anyone giving details on this part of the subject. Plus, as I mentioned, I have rheumatoid arthritis, so digging up ANYTHING is a very slow & difficult task at best. All that to say this part of the process WILL take YEARS for me to erradicate this pest. I feel like the eggs are the biggest problem to deal with. And just to make matters worse- The research has shown the eggs are TIME-RELEASED to hatch over the span of many different YEARS!! 🤦🏼‍♀️ WHAT!!!???????? YEARS!!!??? ugh. THIS is the part that made me the most depressed with having to deal with these worms! YEARS of eggs hatching, and it only takes ONE lone worm to create an infestation... Is my gardening legacy to be titled "Still looking for that ONE that got away..." WHAT is everyone else doing?

[@FlockFingerLakes]

We go a bit into worms in the next episode.

[@gardengatesopen]

@@FlockFingerLakes Excellent!!

[@gardengatesopen]

@FlockFingerLakes P.S. Sorry for SUCH a long comment. My goodness, I DO go on! 😬

[@lionelwade7824]

"Promo SM" ❣️

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

Can we persuade Summer to stop using the word "like" in every second sentence?

[@loveandoneness.n.e.t]

Thanks!

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Thank you for the generous donation. We really appreciate it.

[@botanyboy5454]

Thanks!

[@FlockFingerLakes]

Thank you for the generous tip.