How perfumers reproduce perfumes with GCMS

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
01:00 - How GCMS works
05:48 - Interpreting GCMS
09:56 - Where to find GCMS online
12:33 - GCMS and plagiarism
References:
Scent and chemistry: amzn.to/3Q1kTrw
Perfume, the Alchemy of Scent: bit.ly/3dTmUss
Perfumes and perfumery: amzn.to/3KrlUIi
Basenotes forums post: bit.ly/3CAX72v
Images of GCMS machine: bit.ly/3AWsbsy
Revive essential oils: www.revive-eo.com/
Eden botanicals: www.edenbotanicals.com/
Perfumer's world:www.perfumersworld.com/gcms-a...
Christophe Laudamiel's instagram: / christophelaudamiel

[@timheinis4263]

Great vid🙏🏻 Very informative!!! Love all the content!!! Inspiring💯💯💯

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@yassinezeryouh8037]

Great video ! As always ! Thank you Sam

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@david-2]

I agree with you on plagiarism, but my reasoning is perhaps a little different. Firstly, yes, copies are never exact, and I've been dissatisfied with them in the past. To the point where I no longer buy dupes at all. And more fundamentally, it is intellectual theft. On the other hand, certain brands seem to keep prices artificially high, which encourages intellectual theft (both on the part of consumer and manufacturer). It's become clear over the last couple of years that most people don't care. I'd even say that quality has taken a back seat compared to monstrous longevity.

[@sammacer]

Good points all around

[@saidalcapone3964]

True designer now smell waaay more synthetic compared to back then

[@Tmanaz480]

A perfume house always has the option to seek a patent for their formula, giving them the right to sue imitators, but that would mean publicly revealing their formula. Also, patents expire eventually. Instead, they opt for keeping the formula a trade secret. If you've chosen the trade secret option, you have waived the right to legal enforcement, but you can keep it a secret forever. Copycats always face the same challenge: Can you truly duplicate the original down to the smallest notes and performance? If so, can you beat the price of the original by a significant amount? If you're that skilled a perfumer, You won't be satisfied artistically. Why not create something original? You may create a bigger hit than the scent you duplicated.

[@earthlingbrightstar]

Thanks Sam for another great informative video.

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@delphinerussell1977]

Thank you for your this video. You explained GCMS process very well.

[@emmahaydon5564]

Really thought provoking video! I'd heard of GCMS but your clear explanation here of how it actually works is really helpful. Also appreciate the pros/cons of this re: plagiarism etc, such an interesting topic and I totally agree with your thoughts around perfumery being intellectual property / more than the sum of it's parts so to speak, and that that's something worth investing in (paying for an original formula where possible so that the artists are paid for their work). I wonder what people think around using GCMS for discontinued formulae e.g. where there is seemingly no option to purchase from the original creator.

[@sammacer]

Thank you. I think that’s a great point on discontinued fragrances; why should someone else be prevented from making the product available if the original manufacturers no longer wish to or can do

[@hanasakifuu]

This was a very interesting introduction to GCMS. Thank you so much Sam. I think it can be a legitimate and very valuable tool in perfumery with various use cases. I completely agree that one should be careful with the ethics of copying the creative works of others. I would say trying to recreate accords or whole formulas to have a better understanding of how materials work together and get insights to inspire your own perfumery is a valid use. And there is also this whole side of functional scents that are used by small businesses to make candles or bath products that may have a valid niche without taking away from the original creations. I understand this is very much a grey area in any case and different people will take different stances on this. Technologically I think it will be interesting how deep learning and AI will improve the analytical capabilities of GCMS and I would not be surprised if these models would soon be very good at recreating extremely accurate formulas through analysis. We truly live in interesting times.

[@sammacer]

For sure I think AI would help in reverse engineering formulas - I imagine only the big F&F companies would have enough training data though to make a good model

[@jsfotografie]

awesome video mate now i got how a GCMS works very interessing :) thx :)

[@sammacer]

Perfect

[@daltonlikesbiscotti]

This is great for retired fragrances that people love

[@juanhqued]

Very interesting, pls release new tutorials on “matching” excisting parfumes . Good one to start with is Dior Sauvage Elixir

[@gordianusthefinder9862]

I loved this video and it brought back a lot of memories for me so please pardon my nostalgia moment. Being the nerd and lover of scent that I am, when I was a kid, I did classic cold enfleurage to extract the scent of fresh lilacs from my parent's garden. Moving ahead, there was an article in National Geographic on headspace analysis using CGMS for raw materials that even enfleurage really couldn't extract the scent properly or if you wanted to really get the scent of the fresh material such as, say, the scent of a field of living tuberose in Grasse in the morning. Later on, I taught a lab in Analytical Chemistry Methods and thought a fun lab for part of the GCMS section would be to do headspace analysis of a bunch of roses. I had the students sample the headspace of a container of fresh roses where the roses had been allowed to release their fragrance into an enclosed bell jar with sampling ports for a day then run the GCMS with a library of fragment patterns for rose aromatics and the students had to identify 20 molecules from their sample and the relative quantity of each in the rose fragrance. I then had them take five different aromachemicals that contributed strongly to the scent and create a simple rose accord using the data they got from the GCMS. The students generally loved the lab and had never thought about using chemical analytical techniques in something like perfumery. Anyway, excuse my ramblings. Thanks so much for all of the great videos and guidance!

[@sammacer]

Man that sounds like such a cool lab, I wish I had done that in school!

[@martinarenzi4744]

Thank you so much 😊❤ please make more videos on che anaylitical side of arfumery. It is such an intetesting toic and it is quite difficult to find information about it taought by rofessionals ❤😊

[@juandelacruzfraganciadelac1224]

I don't know why I don't get a notification when you post a new video . But amazing video

[@sammacer]

Thank you!

[@ternalan]

Very good, thank you!

[@sammacer]

Thanks!

[@cainebcn]

First of all, thank you for a great informative video. I have one question. Do you know of any device I could use in order to analyze the projection and longevity of my own perfumes? Let's say I create a perfume and also several other slightly different variations, and I want to know which one has better performance. What about a TVOC detector? I guess using a GCMS would be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut... Thank you.

[@justaddlight]

Interesting about that creative formulas site. I noticed that they add the word "type" in the title of the perfume. 😄 But isn't it just the real thing put into a GCMS? I would imagine that it would be a haven for clone brands. Significantly cheaper than purchasing your own machine. An excellent video Sam. Would love to see that one on the matching technique. 👍

[@sammacer]

I imagine it would be a haven for them - never useful myself but it does look like it could be a good learning resource too

[@CarloCognome]

Clone brands don't produce clones themselves, they buy them from bulk manufacturers. Stores like Perfume Parlour and Esenzzia are more like resellers, and in fact they often sell the same clone with different solvents, both in quality and quantity, and of course different bottles. These bulk manufacturers (I would like to find out who they are and where they are located, just out of curiosity) definitely have GCMS and analysts to read chromatograms of original perfumes

[@rohillacoolest1]

Hi Can you guide me what are the parameters that are analysed in perfume and methods in Europe and Uk According to pharmaceuticals or Or other guidelines and where can I study about them .I have done M.pharma and experience in Fmcg but I wish to learn about perfume analytical methods

[@sam-ze3lq]

Subscribed💝💝

[@sammacer]

Thanks ❤️

[@martinsykora1989]

Would love to learn more on matching

[@sammacer]

👍

[@pharmacologytutors9267]

Great video! Can you tell or review a book that is used as gold reference standard in perfumery ? I am interested to learn about the minimum and maximum quantity of raw materials that can be added in perfumery but I dont know any standard reference. Can you help in resolving this !

[@sammacer]

Unfortunately there’s no gold reference for that; the best way to learn is testing them yourself

[@lifeaddict]

Should I put water into perfumers alcohol? (Waters making my solution cloudy) And benzyl benzoate?

[@sammacer]

Nope

[@SeedKreations]

cgms is a double edge sword. it can be good for studying and experiment purposes for a fragrance. but for duplication or cloning nah. still there could be some ingredients that never show in the gcms becaue they below the threshold of olfactory recognition. however those ingrdients influence the fragrance. also there alot of captives which will never shown in gcms. very good informative video on this gcms topic and controversy.cheers, important info.

[@kutte97]

GCMS shows you everything what's inside, if the GCMS is sensitive enough, even if its there only in trace amounts. That's why it's used in testing for food safety, pesticides etc. where the smallest amount of traces of some chemicals could be very harmful for the public health.

[@SeedKreations]

@@kutte97 almost everything. not a captive which there is no data available to the gcms if the indredient has not been added. i have a base which no gcms can detect cause the traces of ingredients is too small for the gcms to pick up.

[@sammacer]

Excellent points.

[@Tmanaz480]

GCMS detects and shows everything, but it's like fingerprints or DNA. If the "Fingerprint" is not in the reference database, the identity of the person is unknown.

[@Erklaerbaerxbe]

How about using LC-MS for natural compounds and other components that are difficult to separate with GC?

[@GreMliNkor]

i am kinda late, but it is actually used for natural materials, to figure out like which molecules sertain flowers contain. What surprised me even more, some of these articles are free excess

[@riturajdeka1917]

Is GC MS test similar to CI test?

[@thehyderabad-ees9712]

What are some other well known brands for fragrance oils - you've mentioned two - Givaudan and Firmenich. Please mention them all. Thanks.

[@sammacer]

I give a bigger list in my new course

[@brklyn2922]

Can GCMS be used to make a fragrance stronger? Thank you.

[@sammacer]

No, it’s not related

[@gizzpee1175]

Perfume contents I have been told is one uk pound, so how is charging 160,00 up to 600.,, 00 UK pounds ethical, it's a rip off

[@sammacer]

That’s not always true - my perfumes cost far more than £1 to make. The truth is behind the scenes costs will vary massively

[@alethink5492]

Interesting. Not all the molecule can be showed in tests, and sometime captive molecules and other not present in database of test, can make a great difference in a perfume. For that is about impossible to reproduce 100% a perfume.

[@sammacer]

Exactly

[@girardirene6916]

Can the original creator of that unique perfume get the exact fingerprint trademarked or keep it safe somehow? That kinda sucks for people who are up and coming.

[@sammacer]

I don’t think that happens

[@Reign_Of_Is_REAL]

I’m so afraid I’ll create something that smells like someone else’s creation, like what are the odds that I will, does that happen to you? Soooo many fragrances out here! 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@wib6044]

This has actually happened several times. I walk by someone at work and am like WTH!? I just made something that smells exactly like that. The only time I asked it Versace Eros for men. They were all just random one off inspirations, not something I re blended to get right or even knew existed.

[@sammacer]

It doesn’t happen to me often - the number of possible combinations is far far greater than the number of existing fragrances

[@superaak]

👍

[@steveg8707]

I would agree with that part of your point with copycats that actually fake the whole presentation. But as for clones, I don’t agree with your point.

[@sammacer]

Why not with clones? What’s the difference between them and copycats? Are they not different words for the same thing?

[@steveg8707]

@@sammacer i’m talking about the 1:1 fakes like the tom ford or mfk types. The literally steal from the manufacturers. Think ebay or other p2p site fakes. Its so hard to tell. However, the rest its at least a different product.

[@sammacer]

I thought that’s what’s meant by “clones”

[@steveg8707]

@@sammacer i bought one of those “clones”. They faked the boxing, the scent, basically everything. But i was surprised how close it was. Generally with clone houses, its not like the ferrari, but its a corvette with the same specks. These guys have it all faked to a T. The jargon for clone is any scent that that replicates another. And it seems from this, you use clone in its proper dictionary sense (like the 1:1 luis vuitton knock offs on ali express being sold as actual luis vuitton)

[@Voidinactivity]

@@sammacer I think he’s referring to how people call Armaf fragrances clones of certain creed fragrances

[@david-2]

It really does seem that consumers lack imagination when it comes to fragrances. A brand that does something different will often discontinue products due to poor sales. I think fragrance has reached a point where it's now a mass-produced commodity first, and no longer viewed as art. (Most people wouldn't even consider who the perfumer is for X.) In this sense, why would the average consumer care about plagiarism? The same idea could be applied to the mass produced crap we import from China. Anyway, just a few thoughts on the matter.

[@sammacer]

I think you could argue that for sure; it’s a complex issue and one could argue that ability for copy prevents the brand having a monopoly on the market.

[@david-2]

@@sammacer You could argue that. I'm not, but I do think that most people have very little respect for intellectual property. It's not tangible so it must not be important. As you say, it's a complex issue, which I think boils down mainly to personal morality.

[@simonstergaard]

I guess that HPLC-MS can also be used

[@sammacer]

Yep, me too