A Psychology Scholar Reacts to Persona Games (NEW DISCOVERIES 2024)

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1. Introduction: 0:00 - 2:18
2. Basic Premise of Persona: 2:19 - 3:44
3. Basics (Archetypes and the Unconscious): 3:45 - 7:33
4. Sea of Souls and the Unconscious: 7:34 - 8:43
5. Shadow Work and Personas: 8:44 - 10:50
6. Inconsistencies: 10:51 - 12:25
7. Secrets of the Tarot: 12:26 - 14:12
8. Apotheosis (Secrets of the Monad): 14:13 - 16:41
9. SPOILER WARNING: 16:42 - 16:58
10. The Great Mother Archetype: 16:59 - 18:51
11. The World Card (THIS BLEW MY MIND): 18:52 - 20:22
12. Outro: 20:23 - 20:58
Why the Four Elements Show Up Everywhere in Fiction: • Why the 4 Elements Sho...
Majora's Mask is One Big Buddhist Metaphor and Here's Why: • Majora's Mask is One B...
#persona #psychology #gaming

[@brinkofdeath]

My interpretation has always been that Maiko, the little girl in Persona 3, is associated with the Hanged Man Arcana because she embodies themes of helplessness and dependence on others. The Hanged Man often symbolizes a situation where one is stuck and unable to change things without external help. Maiko is in the midst of her parents divorce, a situation she cannot control or influence on her own. She relies on the protagonist and other adults for support and guidance, which reflects the Hanged Man's need for assistance to move forward. Additionally, the Arcana suggests a shift in perspective, just as the Hanged Man views the world from an upside-down position, Maiko gains new insights about her situation through the help she receives. This combination of helplessness, dependence, and eventual understanding makes the Hanged Man a fitting representation for Maiko's story in my oppinion.

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

I always thought he was pushing crack

[@Mnemoniforma9.00]

13:12 What'd you sick freaks THINK the rationale was ROFL

[@Psychokyuubi666]

@@jasonblundelldobebussingThis guys interpretation is more correct. Funny comedic perception though.

[@erikscottdebie7665]

Came here to say this. The Hanged Man also frequently is associated with being overwhelmed by and thus resisting choices (especially reversed). It becomes upright when one surrenders to inevitability and accepts a new path, as Maiko does by the end of her social link. In the Persona series especially, the Hanged Man often involves suffering and sacrifice, perhaps by oneself or by others you once trusted. Just as Maiko faces with her parents. Her old life is over, no matter that she is too young to cope… without help, anyway. Most of the other SLs in P3 involve death in one way or another: risking it, facing it, dealing with it, running from it. At least the kid doesn’t die. :)

[@maxderrat]

I love this comment. Thank you for elevating what was just a dumb joke on my part to genuine insight. This is why I love my audience.

[@ventusthekey5187]

You rarely take the name of the major arcana as something literal. Tower represents either disaster or a major event that completely changes ones life. Hanged man usually represents being in a situation where someone has little control. Interpretation of tarot is really complicated even without digging into reversed readings.

[@maxderrat]

Yes. I love the interpretation that you and another commenter, brinkofdeath, put forward in regards to the Hanged Man and Maiko. I'm still curious as to what the "Tower" would have to do with Bishamonten, though.

[@ventusthekey5187]

@@maxderrat well as far as I can tell with a quick look through some websites, he's a guardian deity of Buddhist worshipers and guardian of the north. I think associating him with the card that represents major changes and obstacles isn't to much of a stretch.

[@patrickbuchanan5890]

​@maxderrat a lot of those Arcana classifications do break down a bit more than how Arcana relate to the themes of the story of the social link A very micro google aka who knows the accuracy says that the northern direction being associated with danger which would be put together with the destruction of the tower that is the card. It's a danger which one can only survive and regrow from like the monk you help/connect with in that social. That might be why they put him into that classification

[@Laurcus]

@@maxderrat It's worth noting first off, that there exists different versions of personas/demons/shadows/guardians to stress different aspects of the mythological character. Bishamoten isn't always Tower. To the extent he is associated with the Tower, imo it's likely a reference to SMT 1 where the death of the four guardians heralded a great disaster.

[@MrApol]

Not to mention that reversed readings are a relatively modern invention that was not done in traditional tarot. In fact, some of the earliest decks like the marseilles deck have pip cards that have a singular design that can’t be flipped, similar to regular playing cards.

[@shelbybayer200]

Fun fact: When Makoto Yuki awakens to Orpheus he speaks the Following Qoute. "I am thou...... Thou art I..... From the Sea of thy Soul I cometh. I am Orpheus, Master of Strings"

[@raeoverhere923]

P4 has the best example of facing your own shadow for growth, as there are nearly no external shadows as bosses. Each dungeon is based around the Shadow of a party member, and whenever you meet one, the only reason we enter the battle is because your party member denies that the Shadow _is_ part of them ("You're not me!"), thus giving them the power to act separately: "I am the Shadow; the True Self". Once you've beaten them, the Shadow is completely silent while your party member monologues about accepting that side of themselves ("You... are me."), then they vanish, the conflict resolved by facing their negative traits and accepting them for what they are. The Shadow cannot be independent once they are accepted, and so they say nothing. The Arcana system can be a little bit funny in P3, but tarot is *complicated*, and can take a long time to learn. I've been dabbling for over a decade, and it still trips me up every so often, but at the end of the day, tarot interpretation is more art than science. Pharos isn't the Death arcana because he's a harbinger of the end of the world, he's the Death arcana because he represents a radical shift in the reality of the protagonist. It's all about intuiting the intended message from context; the situation around the character in the Social Link is what determines their arcana. Magician characters are inexperienced and self-confident, often jealous, and have something happen to their love interests, Priestess characters are quiet intellectuals who struggle with difficult family lives, Chariot characters are driven and competitive, often to their own detriment, etc, etc.

[@juliorosal9698]

wholeheartedly agree with this. thats why, even after almost 2 decades, Persona 4 is still the best.

[@michs7451]

Fun fact, Mr. Edogawa in Persona 3 is based off a key staff member in Atlus -- Shogo Isogai -- who, along with Kazuma Kaneko, was one of the key creative members in the SMT series and himself incredibly well-versed in mythology and religion. His notable works include SMT2, SMT: Nocturne, Soul Hackers 1, Strange Journey etc.,

[@erikscottdebie7665]

Bishamonten is of the Tower arcana because of what it represents: a sudden, catastrophic destruction of one’s life, circumstances, and/or path. The warrior personas of the Tower arcana are extremely destructive, usually to themselves as much as everyone else, like Cú Chulainn (of Irish legend), Mara, or Shiva.

[@swampvyle750]

I think some of they most representatives personas in the tower Arcana is actually Cu Cuchulain and *Masakado* because, Even if they are powerful Warriors they meet a tragic end. I think one cool persona that could enter in the tower Arcana is Sigfried who also meets a tragic end

[@MauM.]

Also, Bishamonten is sometimes represented holding a small pagoda tower in his hand

[@blakec8549]

I never knew much about tarot and assumed the tower was meant to be phallic and had something to do with male ego. Seeing as thier social links seem to be focused on characters seeking to fullfil their own self satisfaction and overcoming that desire.

[@MauM.]

@blakec8549 In some versions of the deck, the card is not even called "The Tower", but "The Lightning".

[@blakec8549]

@@MauM. That makes sense. I guess youtube comments are the means by which all will be revealed

[@goodname5920]

Alchemist, psychology scholar: the list of accolades just keeps growing huh

[@maxderrat]

Just those two... and Metal Gear/Silent Hill scholar, but that's all I'm confident in at the moment.

[@brentclouse7791]

I thought Max, I dunno, was gonna interview a practicing psychologist in this video for a second.

[@asiblingproduction]

Scholar just means one with knowledge on a topic.​@@brentclouse7791

[@Doug_MacArthur]

@@maxderrat We talking bachelor's, masters? Autodidact is badass too and in some ways, even more impressive. Don't have to say, I just find you to be a really interesting and exceptional person.

[@saj9972]

​@@Doug_MacArthurthe glazing is CRAZY

[@d_shuffles]

The psychology and esoteric nature of the protagonist spiritual awakening is what makes these games my favorite RPGs. Especially the dark nature of Persona 3. I love how the series plays with the ideas of archetypal characters and the way the collective unconscious is represented as a deep dark dungeon where in the shadows dwell. Also thanks for blowing my mind with the world card breakdown 😵

[@unggoymuffin9163]

Max’s yellow Persona character gave me whiplash. I would gladly welcome his yellow avatar morph into whatever series he would like to talk about.

[@Boltothemage]

You may find it interesting that a lot of the creative team for Persona 3 through 5 are currently working on a new game in the same vein, Metaphor Refantazio, that also seems to be drawing on Jungian psychology. Instead of summoning Personas the characters can transform into creatures called Archetypes that are based on RPG classes (Knight, Magician, Thief, etc.). And you gain access to new Archetypes by bonding with characters who accentuate those archetypes in some way. I dunno if it'll be as focused on Jungian psychology as Persona or if it'll be more broad, though.

[@skykatchr_reflektions]

Carl "Forever" Jung

[@vladtepes1047]

Much better than Carl "I Like 'Em" Jung

[@BProof]

​@vladtepes1047 You know my Uncle Carl too?

[@sketchywest1176]

Slight thing worth mentioning; the final card you recieve from Igor in P3 is a supercharged version of The World, instead called The Universe. The major arcana are meant to represent challenges one may face in life, and while circumstances vary, all journeys theoretically begin with The Fool. It basically represents that you know nothing about the trials you are about to face as you begin to work towards your goal. Once you've gone through the tribulations of your journey and achieved your goal, you've reached The World. This card represents the accumulation of your experiences, becoming more learned and "worldly" during your struggle. From what I understand, most Persona protagonists recieve The World during the true ending, which helps them put down whatever bad guy is causing trouble in that game. Minato/Kotone, however, are the only known characters to recieve The Universe instead. Igor is even stunned when the card is drawn, stating that the MC is one of the most remarkable guests he's ever had in the Velvet Room. While The World draws power from the Social Links you've forged, The Universe draws power from "consciousness" itself, allowing the MC to basically use "Yin" to fight Nyx's "Yang".

[@declanmckenna6854]

Yup every Persona protag is either capable of or recieves The World (since it means completeness or fulfilment) but the P3 twins are apparently the only Guests in history (at least Guests that Igor has worked with) that obtain The Universe which is a concept so far beyond the The World that I personally interpret it as "The Self becomes God and God becomes one's Self" it makes me wonder if any of Philemon's other Guests have gotten The Universe or if Nylarlathop has ever gotten a champion capable to realizing The Universe.

[@Raddkann]

Yeah I was just about to say this… albeit on a much smaller scale, but you saved me some time and said it better than I could have, so yea that’s a W. I will say that Makoto’s arc is friggin amazing, one of my favorite arcs in the series. Going from this apathetic guy who kinda just did things because he was asked to, to actually sacrificing himself to protect all the friends he met and loves. I wish I could be like him.

[@jasonterre1056]

I still believe people over-interpret the whole "Universe" thing. It's still The World, almost always when the Arcana is revealed it's always a counter to whatever deity it's against. The use IS definitely situational but always appropriate. All 3 protags are supercharged with power of friendship and always standing alone with the god they oppose. The difference is circumstance, Makoto Yuki survived the incident should've killed him and his parents 10 years ago. "Death" sealed in him extended his life, and soon after cutting his connection with Ryoji and Nyx with The Great Seal he soon follows after. Maybe by mercy or gratitude he was given enough time to last until Graduation Day.

[@nathank2289]

To add: In the spinoff games Minato/Makoto's ultimate persona is Messiah/Jesus.

[@moomer2675]

Isn’t Universe the same as the World? I’m pretty sure they just changed it to World in P4 because it was more accurate. Universe implies that there’s something past the world which we have not explored yet. Aliens or other planets or galaxies but how does that tie into Persona?

[@jonathancapps1103]

I can see a relation between the girl and the _Hanged Man_ arcana. The Hung Man is... a different archetype.

[@animeproblem1070]

The middle character in the world arcana card in 3 also represents the messiah archetype as symbolizes by the persona messiah who is a Fusion of Orpheus and Thanatos the two main personas of makoto from persona 3

[@bearberserker]

I should've realized the inconsistency with Personas being Shadows and how, while it does use Jungian concepts as part of the story, it is more of a mixture of the concepts that are connected but have different parts. I always loved how Persona was Shadows because it's like the characters learning more about themselves through the repressed parts of their personality and gaining a higher state of being.

[@mikelonduckguey]

Okay the Carl Jung bit at the start had me fucking dying. But yeah I love how much of persona is actually referential to Jung, past just it's name. It would've been easy to just see a cool name and decide to adopt it for a concept, but they really did a ton of research on the subject and it shows

[@inhalerisinsane]

the arcana of the ultimate personas that the protagonists use in 3, 4, and 5 are pretty symbolic makoto yuki in persona 3 uses thanatos, which is aligned with death, and (spoilers) represents how makoto doesn’t fear death and even embraces it. some might argue that his ultimate persona is orpheus telos or messiah though, and i dont really have good enough explanations for those yu narukami in persona 4 uses izanagi no okami, which is aligned with world, and since izanagi was yu’s original persona, this expresses how yu started without knowing anything but eventually grew to be extremely powerful ren “joker” amamiya in persona 5 uses satanael, which is aligned with the fool, and he uses a fool arcana aligned persona to symbolize that he is independent and that he harnesses all the sins to defeat his enemy, and the fool represents how he returns to his normal life

[@TeQxktcg]

My only gripe with this video is that you misidentified mascots for animals; mascots have various psychological functions, both for individuals and groups. I'd argue the games get good milage from this even, some aspects that spring to mind: identity formation, emotional connections, social cohesion, psychological comfort, symbolic representation and obviously brand image.

[@maxderrat]

Yeah, my bad. Morgana is not a cat and Teddy ain't a bear. :P Koromaru is a good doggie, tho! ;)

[@HollowGolem]

​​@@maxderratI think Atlus considers the actual mascot of 3 to be Aigis. The non-human yearning to be human, just like Teddy and Morgana.

[@michs7451]

Please talk about Persona 1 & 2 at some point! I think you'll love them and they're arguably even more accurate to the Jungian roots of the series than the later titles.

[@theduckcompany]

14:11 Ah, a man of culture.

[@shira_yone]

Elizabeth best tbh

[@crunchy303]

@@shira_yone Preach

[@carlosm.taveraa.8097]

sadly he is incorect

[@hyperpoints]

“one could theoretically face other people’s shadows if they could enter the collective unconscious but that’s a level of woo” isn’t that just what the internet is…? i mean sure there’s stuff people don’t share, but. most of it is on there somewhere in some form tbh. of course the internet probably has shadows and hidden potential too

[@skolkor]

I believe there is a line in P5 where someone (can't remember who) says that the collective unconscious sounds similar to the internet and Makoto responds that that's an interesting way of looking at it.

[@harmlessanimeposter3379]

I'd like to see you take on either SMT: Strange Journey or SMT IV for an analysis video, although they are marooned on dead platforms and screaming for remakes. Your script for the Nocturne video was top-tier and there's so much more to work with, with either of those games.

[@soulwynd]

I know it was a joke, but the hanged man represents inevitable failure. Maiko is dealing with the divorce of her parents. I've read the tarot for about 30 years now. The one thing I always say to anyone before reading is that the tarot is a tool. It doesn't foresee the future, it doesn't give you solutions to anything. What it does and does well is propose a random scenario that we then relate to your quandary. By giving you a scenario it forces you to think what to do if that scenario were to come true and thus you gain a deeper understanding of your issues. In any case, the hanged man shows that things will inevitably fail no matter what, either by your own hands or others. So on a positive light it shows survival after a tragedy, coping with loss, coming to terms with your own mortality and yes, realizing your parents divorce is inevitable and not in your own hands.

[@ChaddyFantome]

An example of individuation in the series is all the other side character you help face their shadows, particularly in P4. Upon doing so, they accept the shadow as a part of themselves, and that is how they obtain their personas and grow as people. The game even has it that if they don't they become devoured by the shadow and that this is what happens to most people who get put in the TV world. The game also plays with the idea of identity and perception, as the characters that are subject to the scrutiny of the public have more drastically caricaturized Shadow's to contend with as the shadow is also informed by how we think of ourselves based on how others see us

[@Hharpuia]

Great video, more Persona pls. I'd especially like to know what you think of the shadows of Persona 2 and how they differ from the shadows of the later games. And (Spoilers for late game P4) The twist near the end of Persona 4 where its revealed the shadows aren't just the "true self" but a mix of that and societal/collective perception of that person. Revealed in the Namatame interrogation scene where the group wills his shadow to appear on TV and confess to the murders, but also shows how his desire to redeem himself as a hero was genuine; I take this as evidence that if the collective perception is strong enough, it will begin to force the shadow to conform to it.

[@RaphaelCGA]

Bishamonten an example of the warrior archetype? Funny thing.. so does Mars and the Tower Card and Mars are associated with each other so they probably linked it that way.

[@mullergui13]

Thanks Max for another amazing video! Please do more Persona videos with more focused topics, those are what grab me the most about SMT aside from the characters themselves. These games are so packed with meaning.

[@SpinfoilHat]

I am once again looking at a video through the lens of Destiny and I think I screamed at 16:07 because this seems like what we achieve with Prismatic in The Final Shape, and what was hinted at with all the alchemical symbols in Witch Queen about two years ago. We already had the Light, the physical, and we have been mastering Darkness, the metaphysical, since Stasis. Interesting how "control" was the first aspect of the metaphysical we encounter, then memory through deepsight, egregore. It seems like Eris was guiding us and other characters in Season of the Haunted bu having us help allies content with their inner nightmares and turning them into memory. Now that we have come into contact with the metaphysical strings of the universe with Strand, tapping into the collective unconscious with the Veil enough that we can restore physical objects through memory, it seems like we will achieve apotheosis with Prismatic once we travel through the portal of Light and Dark made by the Witness carving into the flesh of the traveler. The Witness may wear the Darkness like a cloak, but we wield the collective strings like a conductor of a symphony, and we defend a gentle city ringed in spears as the traveler wanted. An end to the samsara of the flower game.

[@ReaverSTHLM]

I think that it's less the people featured in the Social Links that are meant to map to the arcana - it's more about the arcanas' meanings being the themes of the stories. Mr. Edogawa has this one lecture where he goes through all of the arcana and their meanings all map quite nicely to what the social links are about. Also, when a certain someone speaks a line of dialogue before changing arcana, they pretty much also give away the moral of that arcana's story.

[@zerosolis6664]

Man I'm glad I came across this video. I have always been deeply intrigued by psychology and the theoretical building blocks of the universe, what true "reality" is, and what truly lies within each and every one of us. You've earned a new sub. Its a shame that not enough people are this intuitive and explorative in thought, mainly because games like Persona and others that deal with Jung's ideas and theories and similar ones, often end up having many details lost. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth and in turn the FFVII Remake trilogy itself, is beginning to lean HEAVILY into all of this stuff, turning the Lifestream into more of a Collective Unconscious concept, which is so dope! Not only Carl Jung, but also Buddhism's Yogachara concept. Psychology and the metaphysical should always have a place in fictional media. This shit is brilliant.

[@TheNovaWollf]

I'm absolutely in love with this channel, you're amazing sir, don't ever stop

[@MEGA7155]

hello, i came from Smoughtown video where he praises you and i have to say you,re amazing Have a ton of your videos to binge watch, sending you all the love Max

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

Ayo, a Persona video from Max. Fr? 😱 I always thought Takemi was pushing hard cocaine to students. Can we get a peer paper on that topic?

[@solidsnake9898]

This isn't even his first

[@LairOfLair]

She never gives us a single SP item, so no, she doesn't sell any stimulants.

[@andrewdorsey1237]

@@LairOfLair ...the invigorate accessories?

[@LairOfLair]

@@andrewdorsey1237 damn, forgot about these.

[@GHJ_AS]

Wow. This is definitely one heck of a video. Really changed on how I’ll look at future Persona games going forward.

[@Nrubyiglith]

I think the reason all the MegaTen and Persona games incorporate so much diverse psychology, spirituality, religion, mythology, etc. is because it was genuinely founded by nerds like Cozy and Kaneko that were real into and passionate about that stuff, some of them borderline occult nutjobs. You can see that in their self-insert characters like Edogawa. I remember Kaneko said it an interview they were supposed to be, "good for your brain, whatever that means." They go real deep into a lot of obscure Eastern stuff you'd never see incorporated into other games. I remember I tried to look up what the Sanskrit symbols used in a lot of Dark spells mean, and it took awhile to figure out they were an obscure variation of Siddham script called Bonji now only ever used in a few esoteric school of Buddhism in Japan, something there's only a couple articles about online that I could find.It really interesting the way they mesh so many concepts from different schools of thought across various cultures, and then find a way to make it cool on top of that. Digital Devil Saga was the dark cyberpunk form of Hinduism I didn't know I needed. The way Raidou Kuzunoha's games depicts Shintoism and living kami in Japan's real-world transitional period from Eastern tradition towards Westernization and "modernity" is refreshing compared to just another "old nature good; new technology bad" story.

[@NelCelestine]

Great video but one thing I do need to point out and it's just semantics. P3MC gets "The Universe" not "The World". The World is the card the protags of 4 and 5 get at the end. It's the same card technically from both number and meaning in readings but it's from the Thoth deck (same with Aigis' Aeon card).

[@FirstPlace97]

Thanks for taking a more in-depth look at the series, Max. Persona gets overshadowed by the anime tropes, when in reality it's got some of the best subtext and metaphors ever in a piece of media. My favorite allusion is the symbolism of Sartre's theory about existentialism, that we are "condemned to be free." This is best illustrated by the image of Joker being the inmate in the Velvet Room on his route to rehabilitation. We all work hard to impose our will against one another, as much as our deep relationships with our confidants inform us about who we are, like a mirror image. We have a burden to be free, and we always have to choose. That's the calendar system, showing us that possibilities are infinite, but time is not.

[@henrymontes3626]

I always thought that Tartarus was in a way a loose reference to the tower of babel where God struck down the tower and made humanity speak in different tongues. Which the same almost happened to SEES tartarus disappears and also their memories about the dark hour which united them. Kinda like how humanity was united in one language until they weren't

[@yarion4774]

It's kinda an inverse in a sense. With babel, humanity tried to rival the heavens. Which could be connected to Mitsuru's grandfather's plan to take the power of the shadows and create time manipulation. Overly ambitious his project failed catastrophically but the Dark Hour remained and Tartarus constructed. Human hubris was struck down by differing opinions and after a cataclysmic event a tower arose.

[@sirmelt1197]

yeah you definitely need to do a part 2 or another video on persona because although this was hard to follow for a high schooler I genuinely enjoyed it.

[@michaelballack3051]

Yet another spectacular video. Thank you so much

[@alanhe4476]

there's also something to be said about how the world, as the last major arcana, is the final step in the version of the hero's journey described by tarot and the sefirot in kabbalah - representing the pathway between malkuth and yesod, the final step that indicates "the work is complete", inverting the fool's "blank slate, freshly departed for a hero's journey" motif

[@samuraijack1k997]

Excellent video, as always. I just want to point out that the Tartarus in Greek Mythology isn't exactly the Underworld, but a part of the Underworld that is ruled by Hades, but I understand it would be too much information on a part that didn't exactly need it, it's just my nerd brain talking. But it's cool to see you playing and doing videos on Persona, I think you'll give a lot more depth for the community and that's definitely a good thing. Keep up the great work! Also, I would hope to see some more in depth analysis of the story and themes of some of the games. (And I agree about Mitsuru being the best girl)

[@ThatBoiTurbo]

I love this deep dive! It has taught me so much about the themes of a game series that I love so much & also tipped me off to themes that may use in future games. Like "archetype" is something already introduced in Metaphor: re Fantazio as the new name for "Personas" within that game. This was super informative!

[@thedarkmoonman]

Carl Jung - 'No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell.'

[@david.9633]

Thanks for the episode

[@mehsium6200]

Fantastic video as always! Your analysis is top notch.

[@matteste]

Honestly, the modern Persona games are pretty shallow when it comes to these themes and ideas, only really approaching things at the most surface level. This especially when you compare to the older titles that stuck much closer to the source material and went more in-depth. In short, the modern titles are basically watered down versions of what the older ones did, yet they get all the spotlight due to being popular. I mean, Persona 2 was a wild ride and the thematic depth that it went to was just insane.

[@Hello_There57]

Two notes I have to address One: the world arcan card in persona 3 is different, it's the universe and has no persona unlike the world arcan that has izanagi no okami or personas from p1 and p2 Two: the dungeons are not the collective unconsciousness you talked about but in persona 1 and 2 there's a character called philemon who lives in a realm called the sea of the collective unconsciousness

[@andriusandrau]

Max's video comes out. I stop doing everything and I watch, and listen.

[@FraterDarko]

The Tool, Carl, & J. Peterson (with a dash of SH) is still my favorite of ur videos.

[@maxderrat]

Hey thanks man! If you like that stuff, you'll like this video. :D

[@FraterDarko]

@@maxderrat makes me wanna check out the Persona games even more now, thanks

[@lordofPockets]

Sawing the template of Joker in MAX form was otherworldly

[@yellowluma101]

Great analysis!

[@ejpaladin]

First heard of you through your collab with Resonant Arc. Love your content, sir.

[@maxderrat]

Thanks for checking out those videos mate! Glad to see you over here as well! :)

[@AmphotericcMike]

7:48 I know I'll sound like a 🤓, but I just wanna correct this, mementos, the tv world and tarter sauce aren't the entire collective unconscious itself, they're parts of the collective unconscious that each represent what desire humanity collectively has during the game, so they all just parts of the sea of souls but not all of it

[@Oblivion420]

Currently playing through Reload right now, being my first Persona/SMT game I'm loving it, just the video I needed

[@mischiefminer1985]

More videos covering each persona would be awesome!

[@kalypsodeepsea982]

More or less related to the video, but I have two amazing series for you to watch: 1. Turkish series The Gift and 2. Blood of Zeus. The first deals with ancient religions and union of opposites. The second is about Greek mythology. I loved both and 1000% recommend

[@maxderrat]

The Gift... I think I've heard that one. Never heard of Blood of Zeus, though. Where can I watch them? Also, how are you doing, Kalypso? :)

[@kalypsodeepsea982]

@@maxderrat sent you a DM. I think the Gift, especially, would be a great addition to your channel

[@baxterbruce9827]

Well, the Arcana are VERY rarely literal in the name and their meaning, as an example, the Tower is a card about chaos and upheaval, the World is about completion, the Hanged Man is about helplessness, or sometimes sacrifice If we wanna assume Maiko (Little girl in P3) DOES make sense on some level, she's going through her parent's divorce, I can't think of something a child would feel much more helpless during, outside of someone actually dying

[@HarmonyDusk]

Great analysis video, though i hope you would release another video expanding more on persona 1, and 2 ( innocent sin and eternal punishment )

[@weedadd1ct]

broo im abt to watch all ur vids i love psychoanalytical studies, im 20 n dont know much but have done light research on jung. im trying to understand my mind as best as possible and its gonna take my whole life n i will never fully understand but thats the fun in the game of life, as long as you play you dont have to beat it

[@estebanrodriguez5409]

You REALLY should look at Mage the Awakening. It's a TTRPG packed to the brim with gnosticism... You literally build your Gnosis to achieve Ascension

[@FlameSkull95]

I'm not a specialist when it comes to the psychology subject matter, as well as the religious imagery you were referring to, but the way you explained it in your video helped me fill out some gaps in the theories I had in regards to this video game series, specially in regards to the inherent meanings of the arcana, as well as the meaning behind the mementos dungeon from persona 5 alongside that game's final boss, to that effect, I am very curious to see your thesis focusing more on persona 5 royal in the future

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

Love it and thanks again.

[@512TheWolf512]

(spoiler) i think what Makoto experiences in the end of P3 is the exact same thing that the victims in P5 experienced. it all ties in nicely together across the series

[@brythkaltaris]

Do a video that goes in depth into 3, 4, and 5. I'm curious to learn more about this stuff, but more specific to each game, specifically 5 since that's my main game

[@greglane334]

As a long time Persona enjoyer, this video makes me happy inside.

[@Nitram4392]

Awesome video!

[@lonewolf_punk]

Best video game series of all time with the Tales series underneath according to my personal opinion. And its because of Persona I wouldn't even known about Jungian psychology or bothered to looked into it.

[@jordanhunter3375]

16:27 ALL THE SQUARES MAKE A CIRCLE! ALL THE SQUARES MAKE A CIRCLE! ALL THE SQUARES MAKE A CIRCLE!

[@TeQxktcg]

Damn, I'm early; looking forward to this one!

[@tcxavier]

Found your channel thru the nier videos and, surprise, you have an excelent video on one of my favorite series. Also, I have to watch the MGS2 video I just was recomended by the algorithm. Thanks and I await the next persona videos

[@duke_aeric]

Holy guacamole, now I understand where Monado comes from (including the use of it in Xenoblade Chronicles)!!!

[@jamapohrebni7048]

hell yeah! my fav series and one of my fav ytubers

[@neniv]

Persona 3 was my favorite, happy to hear you've been playing the series.

[@blueround9590]

this was such an interesing video!

[@JohnnyCoyote]

Thank you for an enjoyable and insightful video, as always. While watching I noticed that I am currently suppressing some parts of my potential self as well, all thanks to japanese RPGs and a yellow dude on KZbin. It's amazing what we humans can accomplish when we connect and work together.

[@Bomba3333]

Funny a mention to Crowley since he tried to summon his " Persona " the HGA and failed or so story tolds

[@thomaswaithe6833]

The ultimate form of godhood is insect repellent? Oh wait, that was the ad break. Good transition.

[@tappyioca5233]

great video especially because the persona games are so good and they need more recognition

[@My2Cents.iF7934]

I'm someone who watches videos like these and edits my comments with timestamps and interjections, so please give me a moment to watch through in full and organize my thoughts. 7:54 I would actually argue that the Sea of Souls and the Collective Unconscious (that is, the realms of unreality or "Worlds Of Cognition" as I refer to them) are separate planes, at least within the context of the series. In multiple instances throughout the games, Personas and Shadows are stated to come from the Sea of Souls (for example, Shadow negotiations in P5, Tatsuya Suou's awakening of Vulcanus, and Makoto Yuki's awakening of Orpheus in Persona 3. "I am thou, thou art I... From the sea of thy soul, I cometh...") We even get to see instances where archetypical entities exist within the Sea Of Souls itself, such as the final boss of Persona 3's _Episode Aigis: The Answer_ who I will not be naming for spoiler purposes. There is an inherent connection between the Sea and the local Worlds Of Cognition of each game, of course, but Personas and Shadows aren't exactly born from the Collective Unconscious; they only exist within it. Even entities like the first final boss of Persona 5 who say they were born from the collective human unconscious were not actually; they were born from the Sea, but humanity's collective unconscious called for an entity who could fulfill their wish for control, and the Sea gave that entity to them. I admittedly know very little about the actual psychological side of the story as I literally know all of my Jung from Persona, but this is something important to be clarified. 13:13 I'm going to anyway, because I think its funny you specifically had to ask us not to. Tarot Arcana aren't meant to be taken at face value. Of course Personas of the Chariot Arcana arent going to all be mythological Chariots, but rather there's hidden meanings and keywords attached to the Arcana itself as they represent steps through the Fool's Journey to attain the World. The aforementioned Chariot, for example, is commonly associated with characters who would run headlong into a burning building to save someone, knowing full well they would get burned themselves in the process. Chie, Aigis, and Ryuji are clear examples of such an archetype, though Aigis and Ryuji couldn't be more different personality-wise, yes? Characters of the Hanged Man arcana are typically caught between a rock and a hard place (Maiko being her parents' divorce, and Iwai from Persona 5 being caught in a yakuza power struggle). Other people in the comments here have already explained Bishamonten, so I'm not gonna beat you over the head with that explanation anymore and just keep going. ...Oh. The video's done already? That was... surprisingly in-depth for being a sub-30 minute video! Good stuff!

[@notbateman4298]

Great comment

[@offbrake2559]

Thank you very much, it would be great if you could do more videos about persona games, this topic is very interesting ❤

[@donb6897]

the nonary games series uses the collective unconscious a lot. also has a bit of time travel shenanigans and alternate worlds.

[@bingus446]

I highly doubt anyone will see this but I haven't seen anyone in the comments talking about this, maybe I didn't look far enough into comments BUT, in the minute 19:28 as he shows the meaning of the colors within the card I noticed that the colors matched the color themes of the persona games Red being persona 5 Blue being persona 3 Yellow being persona 4 And green that now we know is the theme of persona 6. I don't think atlus had this in mind back then but is a nice coincidence non the least.

[@vlander1992able]

I've seen something like the monad in the trees and sky when meditating very deeply, didn't know what they were, but it does make me wonder if people under trance or deep meditation have common experiences. Great video.

[@andrewdorsey1237]

Haven't watched yet but I know I am hyped for this video already. I'm a social work student myself, just got my BASW last year, with my ultimate goal to become a counselor as well, and I'm a HUGE fan of the persona series too, so I'm sure this is gonna be cool AF.

[@andrewdorsey1237]

One important thing I think that you kind of touched on, but you may not know, is the "story" of the tarot major arcana, also known as "The Fools Journey" The Fool is a unique card in the major arcana, it is simultaneously 0, and also... 22. The fool metaphorically represents a newborn, one at the beginning of their life, a blank slate. The first things one encounters in life are the positive and negative forces in everything, The Magician (1), and The High Priestess (2), respectively. (For note, positive and negative here don't mean good and bad, positive forces are things that are closer to things that are always there, unchanging, whereas negative forces are closer to chaos, that which changes, never remains the same.) They can also be described in a similar way to the conscious and the unconscious After the newborn comes to recognize these forces, they are met with two people... The Emperor (3) and The Empress (4), their Mother and Father. As the fool continues to grow, eventually he finds himself desiring belonging. This is represented by The Hierophant (5). usually thought of as an organized religion, but it can also be friend groups in school, or sports teams, and so on. Soon after, The Fool reaches adolescence, and begins to seek partnership In The Lovers (6) This is also a time they start to become more set on their own beliefs, drifting away from some of the organizations of The Hierophant. As The Fool reaches adulthood he begins to contend with maintaining and growing in discipline and willpower, The Chariot (7), the challenges of courage, Strength (8), and becoming more introspective with The Hermit (9). As everything slowly becomes pieced together, he begins to understand The Wheel Of Fortune (10) (which, most printings will come with a similar mandala kind of printing as you pointed out all over in Tartarus). He recognizes the world, but is not ready to become one with it. The fool may also begin to believe in concepts such as destiny or luck. As the fool reaches the middle of their life, they are faced with Justice (11). The choice to take responsibility for their past actions, reflecting on all the causes and effects that brought them there so far. This could also be analogous to one beginning to confront their own shadow. Regardless of the fools decision, they push on, to a state in which their world views may be turned upside down, humbled as they become The Hanged Man (12). He needs to learn to let go, to understand not everything is within his control. He may feel defeated or lost, believing he has sacrificed everything but as he lets go, and lets the world keep moving at its own pace, he begins to support himself more to prepare himself for... Death (13). Albeit not in the literal sense. Death is very important to Persona 3, but Death instead represents transition, change. The death of the old self, to transition into the new self. This may be the moment of defeating ones shadow, and mastering their negative aspects. Finally, as he moves on, and gains more control over himself, he discovers Temperance (14), balancing his emotional state, understanding the value of living a harmonious, moderate, life rather than the constant emotional flux. But... this state can lead to complacency, being drawn in to The Devil (15). The devil is the ignorance and hopelessness we all possess, not a literal devil of myth. It is also the concept of lust for material objects, greed and gluttony binding the fool to his lover, neither aware they are shackled by it. The ruin this brings leads us to The Tower (16). The Tower is sudden change (hence why it is often a more negatively associated card for those that believe in tarot fortune telling) that allows us to break free from the Devil, but not without pain. It is an almost literal slap in the face telling The Fool to wake up, and remember what is important. This wake up slap creates a revelation, a calm, serene, tranquility represented by the beauty of The Star (17.) Free from the shackles of the devil and its negative influence, The Fool is bathed in Joy and tries to share it generously with the rest of the world. However, this serenity can cause The Fool to fall victim to the illusions of The Moon (18). The positive emotions brought forward by the star are not always perfectly clear. This can lead to the wonders of imagination, but can also bring forward fears, anxieties, leading to a deep seated bewilderment. But the moons illusions are defeated by The Sun (19). The Fool understands the goodness of the world, enlightened by the suns warmth. He feels reassured, able to face any challenge, a feeling that leads him to near the end of his life. In the end, it is time for Judgement (20). This is the approach of the Monad state, apotheosis. Not quite there, but approaching it closer and closer. A feeling of rebirth washes over The Fool, absolved of all he has done, able to forgive himself for his past mistakes. Judgement is often depicted with an angel calling to The Fool, but this angel in truth is a representation of his higher self. The Fool understands who he is, why he was born, what he was meant to do... and embraces The World (21) within himself. He has achieved wholeness, having lived a fulfilling life. And from here... the life cycle begins anew. The Fool (0) becomes The Fool (22), reborn as a newborn once more to begin the cycle of life.

[@chrisdiokno5600]

A Persona vid from Max Derrat? Nice. But yeah, like, as some noted, the Tarot cards aren't always literal. IE Death is rarely about literal death

[@ethanytroyabed]

For the world card maybe the four animals can also be the evangelist and so the center can also be Jesus.

[@amasirat]

At first I thought this video was just a cheap reaction video by some guy posing as a psychologist but how wrong I was! This was an excellent video! Your naration was clear and to the point, the humour was also on point.

[@tekbox7909]

Your video is great as always and also as always really makes me wonder what you might have to say about the webnovel Lord of Mysteries which uses many of these concepts in its magic system and not just subtly but rather extremely blatant so I really wonder how that would change your perspective on those things.

[@andrewwilliams8951]

7:29 Did someone say. . .MONADO? I'M REALLY FEELING IT

[@darkmatterpancake9824]

Oh hell yeah, Persona content on the Alchemy channel

[@marcobruno1798]

What a terrific video

[@nathank2289]

14:12 This man officially knows his stuff

[@wenerjy]

I think you would really enjoy Persona 2 Innocent Sin - it has a much stronger psychology angle in that the narrative is steeped in the childhood traumas and parental issues of the core cast of protagonists.

[@bli2z4rd]

Hey Max, if you're willing to take a recommendation, I'd love to watch you talk about the game Grime. Here's a summary of the plot and why I think it would be interesting to delve into it: Grime is a metroidvania with souls-like elements that covers topics as the search for one's purpose, the will to survive and the acceptance of death. This is mostly represented by the fact that you play as a little black hole in formation and ventures around - and I kid you not - a dying space giant. The beings in this world are basically divided in two sides: the ones who fear you and treat you with hostility and the ones who welcome you with open arms. This game made me think about the theme you brought on the Drakengard video, about how you, the player, feel about the destruction you brought. At one point in the game, one character even asks you how do you feel about what you're doing, the beings you encounter and what are you going to do to them, what will that make you feel, etc. If you want to play the game, I don't want to spoil it for you, but my personal take is that the protagonist in Grime is more like a "force of nature", just doing what it has to do, and that gave me a little more ease. I hope you're willing to take a look at this, at least let me know if the game picks your interest or not, I'd love to see what else you can take from it's lore. I know you don't usually talk about metroidvanias, but you talked about Hollow Knight recently, so I'm keeping my hopes up. Stay yellow!

[@ffxiikd1426]

awesome video.

[@couchpotato3197]

This was a great video but the video title is the most clickbaity thing I've ever seen on this channel lmao. It almost turned me away from watching this video. I know people gotta eat but the stuff people have to do to appease the algorithm now is getting crazy. (Speaking in general)

[@gindokusei4712]

What did you expect, just out of curiosity

[@hamstermelody4902]

? How is it clickbaity?

[@domd6789]

The hanged man joke was wild 💀

[@leonre3677]

Makoto is the male aspect fusing with the female aspect of Nyx birthing a New Universe.

[@Kairikey]

I always believe that assignment of each Persona to each Arcana depends on how you interpret their archetype evident in how Persona would switch their Arcana around each game. A lot of demonic powerful Persona will switch around between Moon, Tower, Devil, Death. I personally interpret Tower arcana as a strong entity that can prove to be great obstacle to the hero figures and it can be branched into either nemesis character, or just mean looking strong guys. Bishamonten might fit the latter. A lot of it also resulted from gameplay too. Strength and Tower Arcana are usually reserved for a very physically strong Persona, but the stronger are usually associated with Tower as it is a more of a mid-late game arcana than Strength. Interestingly, in the original P3, each Arcana are also leaning toward a specific play type of game element: Magician are fire-inclined most of the time with high magic, Priestess are more ice-inclined, Emperor are more balanced and lightning-inclined, Fortune are to wind, Lover are more support-oriented, Hermit loves their status ailments, Justice are always light-based, Chariot are more about Strike attack with higher endurance, Strength are more about Slash, Tower are more about Pierce. However, in later P4, P5 and the new P3R, these association got switch around more but some strong association with each arcana still remain.