How Powerful Is BOWSER (Super Mario) - Drunk Powerscaling

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

I need a nap after this, still don't know why my blue yeti sounds so weird (or maybe it doesn't you tell me). Shadow video was fairly calm and reasonable so hopefully this one is too. If it sounds like I have a cold...well, sorry for being sick lol. Also I didn't ellaborate much in the video on it, but since part of the 5D argument comes from galaxy, yes the 2 universal feats in the game are actually 5D, Go figure.

[@rickstar6276]

Also considering Dreamy bowser (even if we exclude the wishing someone out of existence ability) he harnessed the power of all dreams which are confirmed to be their own universes where beings inside those universes can also dream and undead beings like boos can dream too so dreamy bowser had the power of infinite universes so basically he had the power of infinity yet Mario and Luigi can tank his attacks and harm him which a very high feat for the brothers. Base form bowser was also fast enough to destroy multiple dreams\universes in When it comes to dry bowser I think there are 2 where one is a close family friend and the other is bowser himself which means bowser has the ability to restore his skin which is another one up on his stats. King boo is often slept on and has done crazy things as like bowser he can also make endless universes where the only way out is to defeat him and make illusions too, he also has full control over the spirit dimension, and was gonna collapse the universe if Luigi didn't stop him

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

People often try to downplay Kamek and his two female counterparts, but people also forget, there is a literal army of Magikoopas that can do very similar stuff to Kamek.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Yep. Kamek just gets the additional stats scaling.

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

​​@@thedrunkgiraffe8312yeah and another species of Bowser's army that people disregard because of their game circumstance (the Mansion games), the Boos can fuse and even empower their own abilities even further (King Boo did it to blast Luigi in the first game, and Boolossus & Big Boo show that respectively).

[@googlemee2371]

Some additional scaling/statements to add on here for Bowser: 1) At 4:38, I’ve read the Mario Galaxy PRISMA Guide book and it states on page 297 that the Galaxy Generator does have the capabilities of both collapsing and creating entire UNIVERSES as Bowser was intending to create a new Universe to rule along with Peach for 10,000 years. As well as the fact that the Reactor is stated to be a Quantum in application as well as using Pure Energy, within it's core, from the usage of the Grand Star. which just further adds on Bowser’s genius, not to mention Bowser has shown to create sentient lifeforms as ‘Bowser the Brilliant’ in Mario Party Advance 2) At 5:01, I’ll add on that Bowser has the capabilities to casually create spaces that can scale either to Infinite 3D to possibly 4D, as the Super Mario 64 Official Guide on page 112 says, Tick Tock Clock is a Place that has no bottom and that it has an endless Abyss with the fact that it has the capabilities of controlling it’s own created space-time by being able to stop time by stopping it’s gears in multiple star missions such as ‘Roll into the Cage’, ’Timed Jumps on Moving Bars’, and ’Stop Time for Red Coins’. As well as the fact that entering in a specific time through the World does change it’s speed in rotation, aka how past time moves. This is scaling is supported thanks to the fact that bowser can create spaces that house Boos which are stated to be extra-dimensional in nature. 3) 7:10, yeah it should go without saying how vast Bowser’s forces and diplomacy with other Kings/Kingdoms extends as stated and shown in Mario and Luigi: Brothership, Bowser jr. states that Mario and Luigi have already beaten about 100,000,000 minions up to that point. Not to mention how fast he is able to amass forces as comparing the beginning of the game (Had along arrived to the new world just just a few minions and one warship) to the end with showing of all of his newly made and acquired minions as they were running to the portal back to the Mushroom Kingdom (His and Kamek’s transmutation Magic are HUGE benefits to expansion purposes). As with his diplomacy, just from his short time being in Concordia, Bowser had already established multiple islands as his bases as well as being able to inspire loyalty in the natives that had already lived there (providing support and care with food and shelter for the people in their war-torn islands thanks to Zokket definitely shows has capabilities as King) 4) On the topic of Boos, at 7:24, their abilities at Bowser’s disposal are pretty crucial as in total with King Boo, as normal Boos can simply possess in-animate objects whether through Spirit Balls or themselves as shown in Mario Strikers (their ability to possess the soccer ball as they shot) or in Mario Kart 8 (They can possess the Hammer Knight Suits on the Twisted Mansion track), and at one occasion, possess actual people as shown in Mario and Sonic at the 2012 Sonic Games (Wii Version, although this can be debated since while the game itself and feats themselves isn’t canon, the abilities that characters showcase aren’t necessarily as these applications of representation has to be implemented with both the approval of Nintendo and the Development of Sega). But that is superseded with King Boo as with his abilities. For Instance, he can use Mind Control as he did with the Ghosts of the Last Resort as well as possess and control technology with E. Gadd’s Pixilator by being able to rip Luigi away from his path, mid-travel, back to the Professor and take him to a separate space. Other than his more know abilities of Reality Manipulation with his Illusions, he can just neg his opponents by putting them into paintings like he did with Mario, E. Gadd, Peach. He can shapeshift into the appearance of others like he did in Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam as he turned into Paper Mario, Peach, and Bowser to trick Mario and Company. And his most dangerous ability, his Paranormal Portals as the prolonged usage of it was going to destroy the dimension, and with the context of Matter Splatter Galaxy existing in Mario Galaxy within by the time Dark Moon came out, that means King Boo has the capabilities of destroying 5D structures overtime. 5) 8:45, A very interesting fact that not many people either know or bring up, but in the Super Mario Bro’s 30th Encyclopedia, page 107, it states that in Sunshine, almost every enemy (and some allies like Yoshi) that Mario faces, were actually created by Bowser Jr’s Paintbrush, and it’s packed up by how it’s stated how unusual both the enemies and allies like Yoshi can be destroyed in Water. This doesn’t change the fact that these characters exists themselves as with Yoshi and Petey Parania and even the Boos, it’s just that the Magic Paintbrush has the ability to create them entirely to likeness, outside the fact of them being able to taken out with water. 6) 9:43, to add of Kamek’s abilities, in the Tetris Attack game, he’s shown the ability to brainwash the entirety of Yoshi’s Island in one swoop, See into the Future as he did in Yoshi’s Island DS with his prediction of the Seven Star Children and that the Mario Bros. would be trouble in the future for Bowser. Change landscapes as he did with Peaches Castle in Super Mario Bros. U. As well as the fact that Kamek is REALLY smart too as in Yoshi’s Island DS, he was able to construct a Time Machine with Bowser to go back in time as well as being able to create a device that can suck up/absorb color and emotions in the Club Nintendo Comics. 7) 17:05, To add even more base speed scaling, thanks to Mario being able to move in stopped time with Tick Tock Clock as well as being able to navigate with it as a infinite sized realm with more feats similar to back it up as in Mario Galaxy, the Charging Chuck realm is said to be able to hold a infinite amount of them, which then gives the realm infinite space. You can scale Mario’s speed at minimum to infinite to inaccessible with Bowser having more lowball-concrete scaling as in Super Paper Mario/Thousand Year Door, he’s able to move in stopped time against Mario when he uses the Stop Watch. 8) 18:25, As I've already shared from the PRISMA Guidebook, the Galaxy Reactor's core not only uses the Grand Star but Pure Energy as well for power. What helps Bowser's Durability argument is that during the final fight against Mario, he actually comes into contract with the Pure Energy which only results in him having a Burning Tail to cool off momentarly. Some Final scaling that can be used to high-ball the Mario Cosmology even higher is in Wario: Master in Disguise, there is an item called String Theory Soup that is said to be able to grant all knowledge when drunken. With String Theory existing in the verse, you a scale every feat of all-encompassing dimensional destruction to 12D at the highest. Not to mention in Mario’s Time Machine, you are able to visit real world periods such as the Republic of Plato which holds Plato’s Book. The book is stated to give evidence of the afterlife, aspatial and atemporal forms, existing as a Outerversal plane as Platonic Forms exist. This less concrete as a ground of scaling of cosmology compared to String Theory in Masters of Disguise but still useable.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Appreciate this. When I eventually come back to the Mario franchise I may use some of this. King Boo could make for an interesting episode. Gonna call you out on string theory soup tho. Mistranslation.

[@seanao32]

Yes, we need a king boo episode, he’s the coolest looking Mario bros villain

[@Mario-s5z3o]

The fact people sleep on bowser when he can do all Of this is beoyond just crazy cause this man is op

[@cringemariobros2516]

Going to add some little details The pure hearts can be used without the others. It’s that they all needed to collect them and they worked together as they were the four heroes of light. But the erratically he could use it by himself. They also don’t really give him a power boost, but if Bowser wanted, he could get a power boost from them. Another thing most of those kings are most likely made by Bowser as he made multiple kings because he asked which gave them a significant power boost Also, peaches castle is actually powered and protected by over 100 power stars as seen in 64

[@Eris1987]

The Kings probably already existed and and Bowser now rules of over them. Bowser is a conqueror after all, and King Bob-omb for example is on Peach's Territory. We also see Peach rules over other Kings herself and Daisy too. King Goomboss was created and made a King by Bowser only when he had the Star Rod. And some enemies that aren't kings but bosses like Petey existed before Mario and the gang. And Petey being well "Boss Piranha" implies larger species exist normally that can serve as kind of a ruler over smaller versions of themselves. Even King Boo, King Goomboss, and King Bob-omb were intially called Big Boo, Big Goomba, and Big Bob-omb. More stars thanks to SM64DS.

[@cringemariobros2516]

@ could be, but that’s not likely as Bowser created the painting universes and king gumba stated that he asked Bowser to turn him into a king which she did and that made him bigger, give him a power boost, etc.

[@Eris1987]

@@cringemariobros2516 while it says that in the game it seems later on that was retconned or who know maybe a localization error. This is because games like Toadstool Tour show those places weren't actually created by Bowser but were literal places in the Mushroom Kingdom, and later Galaxies. In addition to that Odyssey shows the Paintings lead to preexisting locations. Bowser probably only used the stars to create the paintings to the SM64 locations in SM64 and SM64DS. Again, the King Goomboss thing only happened cause Bowser used the Star Rod on him.

[@cringemariobros2516]

@ it was stated in the original game he created all the paintings and in the manual death battle showed it and I mean nothing is stopping people from making their own using the stars

[@Eris1987]

@@cringemariobros2516 again, the places have been shown to be preexisting locations on the Mushroom Planet you can walk to.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

1:15 he did start to kidnap peach and fight the yoshi race + the Mario bros since he was a baby so put that into perspective 2:36 well sometimes, he sometimes gets possessed sometimes he doesn’t 3:37 also since we’re using comp game bowser ttyd confirms he has infinite lives and can get himself ressurected even when killed as stated in Luigi mansion 4:48 also caused Mario is literally op on his terms 4:55 what’s funnier is that the power of music in the Marioverse is lowkey broken 6:23 nah he tried but Mario and Luigi are just built different 7:10 no you shouldn’t cause otherwise it would be a bowser and army debate not a bowser debate 9:33 every character in tennis aces can do that 9:41 they are much more powerful than the original since these clones needed 8 super star empowered beings ( bowser included ) to be put down and it still took a lot of blows to defeat him for good 9:44 yeah it’s consistent in Mario + rabbids that magikoopas are immune to all stats alterations 10:01 these can’t be used since they are controlled by olly and they got mind controlled to betray bowser 10:44 and almost collapsed the entire universe by controlling the paranormal dimension 11:30 also destroy those cubes which were stated to be made of lunar metal 11:32 it was actually stated in the website he put the whole dimension in a darkness state 11:35 btw if anyone says these feats don’t count since Mario and Luigi helped bowser it was stated throughout the entirety of bis that bowser was weakened so if anything mario and Luigi regained him his full strength also he jungled with ( mini ) stars in Mario party 9 and created a machine that stole all the night sky stars 12:04 and galaxies in Mario are infinite in size 12:17 the Nintendo power guide confirms they were universes since it was stated the paintings engulfed all of reality and in both the guide and Japanese versions of Mario 64 it was stated the worlds were infinite in size 12:38 no but it’s safely universal 12:55 dreams are consistently treated as universes or infinite in size in Mario same with normal universes and if anyone says bowser didn’t have the entirety of the dream stone power dreambert stated himself bowser absorbed all of the dream stone energy 13:05 culex even travels to other dimensions and he himself stated his inferiority to the Mario cast to prove the point even further 13:20 the pure hearts only healed the group and stripped dimentio invincibility they still beated dimentio in base not to mention they also tanked the void and a shadow of dimentio power was still enough to make the void destroy the cosmology 13:37 not at all dreamy bowser is so much weaker than the pure hearts 13:57 it’s also stated to be a higher dimension in guides 14:03 no they are all infinite in size 14:33 he scales much higher but I don’t feel like explaining the whole cosmology 15:39 it can cross space-times and universes in seconds actually and same thing with the green comet and in 3D world Mario,Luigi,peach and blue toad can keep up with bosses amped by the green stars 15:53 the power stars can cross to the edge of the universe in seconds and since the universe is infinite in Mario this is an infinite speed feat ( infinity has edges because of higher infinites before anyone says this is contradictory ) 16:08 since it was eating all of spacetime, alternate and spatial dimensions this is an immeasurable speed feat 16:27 actually the fact that he travelled to the dream depot which is outside the normal multiverse and to other dream worlds with raw speed makes this an immeasurable speed feat 17:49 with Mario and peach help but he can assert 1/3 of that power and create storms by crying 17:52 wario defeated bowser in the past but that’s how bowser inverse works one game he is a toadette victim the next he is above Mario 18:17 ahahaha 7 times actually 18:32 no she didn’t but her shield is powerful enough to withstand a universe level explosion 19:00 what’s funnier is that you missed a lot of other op scaling but it was a lot to cover so

[@DjDeadpig]

After Bowser vs Eggman, I had a dream for a different death battle. Since Wily has only been in one death battle, perhaps an army war between Dr Wily and Dr Zomboss from PVZ would be a good matchup.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Could be neat. Issue is that Cortex VS Zomboss is popular

[@hybridvenom9]

Powerful enough to kill Eggman

[@zeroddor2665]

ALONG LIVE THE KING

[@VillageOtter]

BEHOLD THE KING!!!

[@frazzianimations9027]

ALONG LIVE THE KING!

[@Mario-s5z3o]

IN THE BATTLE IN THE SEA OF FLAMES. 🔥 🔥🔥🔥 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

Those aren’t the lyrics lol

[@frazzianimations9027]

@@MinatotheGreenLantern it’s some of them tho

[@Mario-s5z3o]

Bowser slams Eggman

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Strong word.

[@VillageOtter]

Wizard turtle

[@VillageOtter]

This dude if fricking busted!

[@VillageOtter]

Awesome video man

[@DrySans8823]

Aw yeah, this is happening

[@AlfieHancock-oq1dm]

My god you really did cover everything I wasn’t expecting this much but does this technically mean he could take on character like goku but even then good video man

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Abilities wise he slaughters, no debate. Stats? Multi Dragon Ball seems OK and ik 5D is valid for a lot. By that logic bowser should hold up.

[@Annihilate0405]

He should. Stats are similar but he outhaxes to such a degree that Goku can’t do anything lol.

[@BozoDClown-lp9zh]

10:00 those aren't Bowsers forces, those are monsters made by King Olly that are also *against* Bowser and his minions and can be seen eating them.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Oof. I think that game is one of few I didn't play.

[@Wario_B]

His only real weakness is that he’s kind of an idiot. Every time he’s lost, it’s been either from his own irresponsibility or from Mario having outside help. I wouldn’t call him stupid, he does lead successful invasions and is shown to be a good leader, but he could’ve won ages ago if he got rid of the self-destroying bridges and fought Mario head-on.

[@CarlosGarcia91000]

To be fair, it is stated that he has a high IQ

[@themanwiththesongs5995]

@@CarlosGarcia91000Stated... but then completely proven otherwise with the M&L series or the Mario + Rabbids thingy we got (God, that was a mistake of a game...)

[@gustavowhite4349]

Little correction on the Pure Hearts, they cannot only be drained, they can be killed too (like in Chapter 6) and the destruction of the Dream Stone and regulation of the Star Rod arent "Plot Armour" they are genuine abilties by Peach, Starlow and the 7 Stars, but still good video overall

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Pure hearts are always tricky to explain, but thanks. The plot armour I was referring to were when bowser got his wish interrupted, like he were about to win.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

The pure hearts can only be drained and you need something like the void against a single pure heart for that to work

[@gustavowhite4349]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 Yes you need a very high amount of power, but they are still killable and can only be restored under very special circumstances which Bowser doesnt have, due to this I think that Dreamy Bowser is his strongest form.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@gustavowhite4349 they can’t be destroyed only drained and you need the void for something like that and need to target the hearts one at the time and bowser can easily restore them with either jaydes or his his own feelings Dreamy bowser is below the gentle pull and base paper jam bowser and the pure hearts outscale so badly heck not gonna lie it’s much more embarrassing being destroyed by peach and starlow than being drained by the void, dreamy bowser is still powerful but it’s nowhere near bowser strongest form

[@AlfieHancock-oq1dm]

I would say that bowser is probably very powerful considering all the games he appears in and it helps that the death battle video was released a while ago it make the job easier and if we are including very powerful items like the grand star, dream stone and pure hearts he becomes god like in a way but if not he becomes more of a Demi-god Even without very powerful items bowser is still very strong with his claws and fire breath and dark magic as well with him being able to warp reality it’s self and the the ability to use any power up he wants like the cat bells and vacuum mushroom are pretty good and the ability to come back as dry bowser and fury bowser as well are pretty powerful and he still has his machines and army as well But if we do count powerful items like the grand stars, dream stone, pure hearts and more he pretty much becomes a god-like monster that can destroy the universe which is very powerful Overall I would say that he is very powerful if we include powerful items like the ones I mentioned even without the items he is still pretty powerful

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

We're including everything don't worry:)

[@AlfieHancock-oq1dm]

@thedrunkgiraffe8312 oh wait real I’am exited to see this then

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

@AlfieHancock-oq1dm Yeah definitely one of them you need to pause and process.

[@Anti_Tik_Tok_Emperor]

I See No God up here, OTHER THAN ME >:)

[@vaggos2003]

Great video. Which episode of this series shall be next?

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Changing the plan. Keeping it hush.

[@vaggos2003]

@thedrunkgiraffe8312 I see. Tho if it is the episode I hope it is, I could be of some assistance.

[@vaggos2003]

@@thedrunkgiraffe8312 You know what, slight change of plans for me as well. Could you count down all the Megatron incarnations that you'll include in your Megatron vid?

[@AlanAlan-r4z]

I love you video man you can how strong of metal sonic

[@Scar_Face232]

Great video. I just have a few questions. 1. Where do you scale Rosalina compared to the verse 2. What are your thoughts on the void in Super Paper Mario as I've heard people scale it to infinite multiverse and dimentio upscales the void.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Ty! 1. If we buy 5D Mario galaxy as mentioned in the video then yeah. 2. I mentioned the void a lot. Its 5D possibly 6D

[@rickstar6276]

@@Scar_Face232 well based off the context we have the void erased all timelines and all of existence instantly meaning it erased all universes and since dreams are universes with an infinite amount of them so yeah the void would range to hyperversal to outerversal since it did this deed instantly and dimentio created it so dimentio would scale above it and base form bowser (along with Mario, Luigi and peach) tanked this. Note for some extra context: the original 3 paper Mario games from 64 to super were retellings of adventures Mario already went on and starting from sticker star to origami king those adventures most likely take place in the story book but it doesn't matter if they are separate or not since in paper jam bowser and paper bowser say they are each other's equals so it would apply for Mario and paper Mario assuming the events from sticker star to origami king did take place in the story book Rosalina is pretty much a goddess who is on par with bowser who already established was moving at a fast pace fast enough to destroy multiple dreams\universes

[@evelynd-ui4sx]

DEATH BATTLE Fan Made Trailer Suggestions: Robin Hood VS Susanoo (Irish Folklore VS Japanese Mythology) Byleth [Female] VS Lumine (Fire Emblem VS Genshin Impact) Osamu Yureimoto VS Skullion (Erma VS Fairy Tail 100 Years Quest) Penny VS Aigis (RWBY VS Persona) Feral VS Rampage (Marvel VS DC) Steven Mandragora VS Alphonse Elric (DC VS Fullmetal Alchemist) Perfect Cell VS Battle Beast (Dragon Ball VS Invincible) Emma Swan VS Dean Winchester (Once Upon a Time VS Supernatural) Beetlejuice VS Pumpkinhead (Beetlejuice VS Pumpkinhead) Han Solo VS Falco Lombardi (Star Wars VS Star Fox) Fantastic Four VS Doom Patrol (Marvel VS DC) [Mr Fantastic Invisible Woman Human Torch & The Thing VS Mento Elastigirl Negative Man & Robotman] The Incredibles VS Team Starman (Pixar VS DC) [Mr Incredible Elastigirl Dash Violet & Jack Jack VS B’Wana Firestorm Starman/Will Payton Power Girl & Night Eagle] Percy Jackson VS Timmy Turner Yugo VS Aladdin (Wakfu VS Disney) Yusuke Urameshi VS Donovan (Yu Yu Hakusho VS Darkstalkers) Max Rockatansky VS Kaneda (Mad Max VS Akira) Kazuya Mishima VS Eren Yeager (Tekken VS Attack On Titan) Akame VS X-23 (Akame Ga Kill VS Marvel) X-Factor VS Freedom Fighters (Marvel VS Archie Sonic) [Forge Polaris Havok Multiple Man Strong Guy Sunfire Gwenpool & Wolfsbane VS Sally Acorn Rotor the Walrus Antoine Bunnie Rabbot Tails Knuckles & Amy Rose] Blossom Bubbles & Buttercup VS Garnet Amethyst & Pearl (The Powerpuff Girls Z VS Steven Universe) Booster Gold VS Silver (DC VS Archie Sonic) Gon Freecss VS Lucas (Hunter X Hunter VS Earthbound) Ness VS The Chosen One (Earthbound VS Alan Becker’s AVA) Mirajane VS Seras Victoria (Fairy Tail VS Hellsing)

[@WerewolfBiTwilight5886]

Please make a video about How Powerful is MAXWELL (Scribblenauts)

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Not overly familiar. If a blog ever pops up it'd be possible.

[@WerewolfBiTwilight5886]

What kind of blog do u need to make a video over him?

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

@WerewolfBiTwilight5886 Usually one similar to G1, with links to Feats and calcs etc.

[@yensawabi2098]

That means death battle is right people So don't debunk them anymore,

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

By my shadow videos logic its possible eggman is stronger but it is a highball. Hax wise I'd like to look into it.

[@CarlosGarcia91000]

Bowser >>> eggman

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

I agree

[@thestickmansavioryt1941]

I absolutely disagree 😈

[@DennisAlbino-l8w]

No, he absolutely does not.

[@CarlosGarcia91000]

@@DennisAlbino-l8w he absolutely does

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

@DennisAlbino-l8w It's debatable.

[@LazUmar]

2-B at most ngl

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Hard disagree.

[@LazUmar]

@thedrunkgiraffe8312 I remebered maybe there's 5-D stuff but there's no basis for the verse being higher than that Hell Tier 1 Mario was debunked years ago

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

@LazUmar I know some dislike the Void/Dimentio scaling but I fully buy it, the argument against it relies heavily on assumptions. Hell as mentioned in the video The Mario universe Is 5D anyways thanks to galaxy, so both universal Feats there are 5D

[@LazUmar]

@thedrunkgiraffe8312 like I said no basis for the verse getting any higher

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

I'm still OK with 5-6D but you do you.

[@EmilianoCharlo-xp2ny]

In my opinion eggman army would still win to the bowser army Not a stomp but eggman would win more times than bowser

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

In regards to stats it's even. Bowser is 5D or 6D Eggman is 5D but maybe a lot higher but that's a massive highball. Speed is even. I'll have to cover Eggman eventually.

[@EmilianoCharlo-xp2ny]

@thedrunkgiraffe8312 also can you explain why in paper mario being "between dimensions" is 4D to 5D and not 3D to 4D?

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

@EmilianoCharlo-xp2ny It's complicated. 5D space traditionally is just 'beyond time and space' Buttt depending on the model used it also acts as a connective tissue for a multiverse. To move from one to another 5D space needs to be used. It is somewhat speculative like most stuff in theoretical physics.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

Lmao no eggman gets brutalized so badly by bowser he will return as a 2D sprite to his universe

[@EmilianoCharlo-xp2ny]

@@mynameisntimportant1374 Bowser has consistent 4D scaling and also 5D (the 6D scaling can be argue to not being true) Same with eggman but eggman has beings like metal sonic,infinite and sage that are like kamek,koopalings and bowser jr but in some cases theyre better and others bowser army is better but while it would go either way i see eggman coming on top Still,bowser is pretty busted

[@Eris1987]

While I personally don't care for power scaling, I do like the Mario lore and you did make some lore mistakes I'd like to correct. Kamek didn't find Bowser, Bowser was the prince and heir to the throne, while Kamek the advisor raised him in absence of his parents. I mean there is an intended iron fist since the Koopas have beef with the Toads. While Bowser currently wants to marry Peach, his original intentions weren't to marry Peach and were purely conquest. Well debatable if the robot Bowsers and Bowser Mobile still exist since they were well destroyed. But in the case of Mecha Bowser it was rebuilt a few times but still destroyed. The portal seems to just be caused by a Wonder Flower. However, Bowser can use portal magic himself and summon his minions as seen in Mario Party. Bowser can't use every power-up Yoshi Power-Ups, the special caps, and the Super Crown can't be used by him or many characters. Soul Destruction? While Bowser can use a Super Star it would have made more since to use SMRPG as the example over the movie because well canon. Small nit pick here but still. The meteorite thing was probably only because he had a Grand Star in his possession. The seeing through invisibility was only because he had the Wonder Flower, he can't normally do that. Bowser has been possessed several times. The Shroob Queen, Cackletta, the Black Paint from Color Splash, and the Black Paint from Bowser's Fury. Not sure about some of the Mario Party items but I think some of those he used were just for those events. Also, the Bricks and Horsetails Plants. I'd note it seems some of Bowser's magic capabilities rely on him having something like a Grand Star, Power Star, a wand, or Mini Stars to perform some of his magical feats. Though not exclusively. Particularly the Galaxy and 64 abilities. That one Bowser from the Tennis game while I haven't played the game I am pretty sure it relies on him having something from that game. I recall that ball of energy was him just returning to the present. Bowser typically can't turn giant at will unless he has something like a Grand Star. He no longer has a Vibe Scepter. Power Moons are Power Stars in a different shape. Those people were Bubble Stars. That was Bowser's Reactor that was destroying the Universe. The Star Rod doesn't belong to Bowser and belongs to the Star Spirits of Star Haven who have blacklisted him. The Music Keys he only took because he was Tone Deaf, he no longer has them in his possession. Bowser probably used E. Gadd's Tech in Yoshi's New Island to Time Travel. The Mario's Time Machine isn't canon. Don't those hearts no longer exist? He is not in control of himself when he is Fury Bowser, that's kind of the plot of Bowser's Fury. That portal was the Shadow Mario M which was placed there by Junior to teleport Mario to Lake Lapcat to ask Mario for help in turning Bowser back to normal. He wouldn't have access to those stones then would he? He wouldn't normally have a Wonder Flower on hand though. The Boos could only create the spirit balls because King Boo using his Power Enhancing Gem was well enhancing their powers and giving them that ability. E. Gadd calls attention to the fact they shouldn't be able to create spirit balls. The Captains have had their captain status stripped btw. I think Kingfin can't leave that planet. Kamella and King Lakitu are probably not aliens and just bosses of their own species. The Broods? They are the Broodals and they don't work for him after the events of Odyssey. Broggy is not his pet. The dragon seemed to have been being controlled by Bowser to attack Mario. The Shadow Mario form is separate from the Paint Brush. Usage of Smash Bros. footage doesn't make sense because Smash isn't canon. Maybe one of his Galaxy fights would have made sense. Note these mechs are probably built by the Koopa Troop. The Koopalings are not Bowser's kids, Bowser Junior is Bowser's only son. Dry Bowser isn't a separate character, that one is question is a Bubble Clone and the line about him being a close family friend is a localization error that didn't get a joke. Bowser didn't create those boss, the Origami King did if I am correct. Most of the minions didn't initials resist Fawfuls' gas, and some that did he just amped up the gas. I think the Ice Flower freezing the sun is an over exaggeration unless we are talking about the sun spirits. The creation of the worlds is probably retconned or misunderstood and he is just creating portals to those places. This is because we see the locations of these worlds throughout the games and then there is the Odyssey paintings. I think the Star Spirit was using a figurative language. Culex in thee original was also a bit of a gag character btw. Blackholes in Mario games don't function like irl blackholes. Everyone can dodge lasers, a Storm Trooper can dodge a laser. That was a fake Milliuem Star. That line if I am correct was not about Bowser's speed, it was about him destroying the Dream Depot if his plans continue at thee rate they were going at. Rosalina did not reset thee universe the Lumas did, she says so herself.

[@thedrunkgiraffe8312]

Interesting read. The soul destruction part is in relation to them resurrecting characters as ghosts. The dream depot is infinite speed since he's travelling infinite distances in finite time. I agree a lot of these items aren't standard. But in VS debates against say Eggman where they pick up new mcguffins every game and then lose them, you may as well give them everything.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

The vibe scepter it’s still in his arsenal bowser did become a giant without outside sources multiple times And it was empowered by a grand star Bowser is still obtained the star rod in both paper Mario and Mario party 8 He used the music keys for reality warping as well and in debates we use all of a character arsenal even if they lost it or only used it once It’s canon They still do and can easily be re summoned Cause bowser was pissed in bowser fury and jr did not create the portal and since fury bowser is made of jr black paint he can use the same abilities The wonder flowers are literally everywhere in the flower kingdom Metaphorical pet And ? What’s difference does that make if bowser controlled it or not That’s why he said adopted And they still resisted the gas The flowers were given by ancient beings who watched the ice and fire tribes for ages just cause a statement seems to go on the big part of scaling doesn’t mean it’s hyperbole and why should they refer to those spirits when Concordia is a different world from the mushroom kingdom ? Even if odyssey it was stated paintings could bring you to parallel worlds also what’s stopping the paintings to have more than one function The spacetime statements are consistent with the Japanese versions and are supported by the guides They do ? What’s your proof they don’t ? Upscales the storm trooper also there is a difference between dodging a laser cause of bad aim or via actual reflex and partners in time is not bad aim The fake millenium star still performed the crossing to the center of the universe feat The lumas didn’t reset the universe and Rosalina never stated that

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@thedrunkgiraffe8312easiest debunk of my life btw

[@Eris1987]

​@@mynameisntimportant1374 _"The vibe scepter it’s still in his arsenal bowser did become a giant without outside sources multiple times"_ so first off when it comes to the Vibe Scepter, after checking the gameplay of Super Princess Peach, Bowser can be seen loosing it as Peach flings him off into the distance. Name an example when Bowser by himself with out external aid like a wand , the Mini Stars, or a Grand Star did he turn giant by himself. Otherwise he can't do it by himself. _"And it was empowered by a grand star"_ Why are you bringing this up? _"Bowser is still obtained the star rod in both paper Mario and Mario party 8"_ Yeah, he broke into Star Haven and stole the Star Rod, and stole it during special event in another game. Plus he needs a why and how. Why are you bringing this up? _"He used the music keys for reality warping as well and in debates we use all of a character arsenal even if they lost it or only used it once "_ Notice, how I start off my comment? Yeah I don't care for Power Scaling, and I especially don't do debates. Debates are just team bloodsports in my eyes. But in hypotheticals I always question, why and how? As in why would Bowser go out of his way to steal the Music Keys when he is no longer Tone Deaf, which is the only reason he stole them from Toad and Mario in the first place. Hence why I said _"The Music Keys he only took because he was Tone Deaf, he no longer has them in his possession."_ In addition he said Bowser owned the Music Keys. Also, no the Music Keys aren't for reality warping, Mario DDR never says that and makes it clear that it is it affects people with music which adds up when it cures Bowser's Tone Deafness. _"It’s canon "_ What are you responding to? You didn't clarify. _"They still do and can easily be re summoned"_ What are you talking about? You don't clarify? _"Cause bowser was pissed in bowser fury and jr did not create the portal and since fury bowser is made of jr black paint he can use the same abilities"_ _"Mario! Dad is out of control! I don't know what happened yet.."_ _"I can't change dad back myself"_ Junior literally says Bowser is out of control, which is why he attacked his own fleet as evident by the debris, and the credits depicting him out of control destroying his airships. In addition he is seen attacking Junior throughout the game something he wouldn't do if he was in control of himself. So I think you overlooked the fact it was a Shadow Mario M, not some associated with Bowser but one associated with Junior. In addition, Junior says the following. _"Id' never ask for help. Never EVER!"_ _"But I'll do anything to save Papa. So...help me, Mario."_ Occam's Razor tells us Junior brought Mario here to help him bring his out of control father back to normal. _"The wonder flowers are literally everywhere in the flower kingdom "_ Note, what I said early, one would need the why and how. A scenario would have to be setup for him to have such an item on hand, and that these Flowers belong to another Kingdom. As in, he needs a why and how. _"Metaphorical pet "_ He never said that, he just said they were his pet. _"And ? What’s difference does that make if bowser controlled it or not "_ What are you talking about? _"That’s why he said adopted "_ You did not pay attention to my choice in words. _"The Koopalings are NOT Bowser's KIDS, Bowser Junior is Bowser's ONLY SON."_ Keywords because you are still someone's son even if you are adopted. And as stated several times Bowser Junior is Bowser's only son which would included adopted. It has been stated they are not his kids which would include adopted, and in universe they never refer to Bowser or Junior as family but by things like lore and master. In addition they are probably too old to be Bowser's kids. The games have made it abundantly clear the Koopalings are not Bowser's children which includes adopted. _"And they still resisted the gas "_ He left out context of them previously being affected by Fawful's gas, and others being affected by said gas later through a higher dosage. _"The flowers were given by ancient beings who watched the ice and fire tribes for ages just cause a statement seems to go on the big part of scaling doesn’t mean it’s hyperbole and why should they refer to those spirits when Concordia is a different world from the mushroom kingdom ?"_ I will note I haven't played Brothership yet but so if there is anyone in-universe or website description that says it takes place in a different world let me know where I can find it. But also, the usage of world in Mario often means little because The Koopa Kingdom can be called a different world with ease. Otherwise I am just gonna see it as people assuming it's another world like they did with Lake Lapcat, often overlooking all the context clues like the Airship and the mountains showing this is clearly not the case. Anyways I say it's probably hyperbole because last time I check when using the standard Ice Flower you don't end up freezing Lava or the very earth itself. Also, I don't think you know what I am talking about when I say Sun Spirits. In addition they were making a claim about Ice Flowers overall and I was pointing out why it's hyperbole but also giving a possibly way for it to not be hyperbole. _"Even if odyssey it was stated paintings could bring you to parallel worlds also what’s stopping the paintings to have more than one function"_ Consistency in the Canon Of Mario tales. And not parallel worlds, to other places on thee exact same planet as seen in Odyssey. And again, we have seen the exact SM64 places in the games existing on the Mario planet. _"The spacetime statements are consistent with the Japanese versions and are supported by the guides "_ It was mostly a suggestion for the possibility of there not being a retcon. _"They do ? What’s your proof they don’t ?"_ What are you referring to? _"Upscales the storm trooper also there is a difference between dodging a laser cause of bad aim or via actual reflex and partners in time is not bad aim "_ They canonically don't have bad aim and people in universe can dodge and block their attacks. And the laser point is a problem with power scaling. _"The fake millenium star still performed the crossing to the center of the universe feat"_ Flashback time.... _"While I personally don't care for power scaling, I do like the Mario lore and you did make some lore mistakes I'd like to correct."_ Not keep thee context of this in mind when ^ when reading this ----> _"That was a fake Milliuem Star."_ Wow it's like I didn't case about the feet and was more interested in the lore mistake, very strange. _"The lumas didn’t reset the universe and Rosalina never stated that"_ Me looking back at Super Mario Galaxy's scene of the Lumas jumping into the blackhole, thee universe resetting, then the scene afterwards where Rosalina explains to Mario about stars, cycles, and the essence of stars making it abundantly clear it is the stars(lumas) doing. Me also know the Star Lore of Mario's world and how it is made obvious the stars are the ones in control. Or in other words the star lore points to the stars being the ones that can reset the universe, not someone who uses their magic and watches over Baby Stars. Or in other words Occam's Razor.

[@mynameisntimportant1374]

@@Eris1987 Mario party 9 and in debates we count every weapon a character as ever used even if temporalely Cause that’s the point of the galaxy reactor Cause it’s consistent he can use the star rod You don’t care but you’re discussing bits of Mario lore that influence bowser scaling and he doesn’t have them anymore cause Mario obtained them and used them and he used the music keys for more than curing his tone deaf Sigh the only thing you called not canon aka Mario Time Machine Omg the pure hearts Again he was pissed and he’s only attacking Mario not jr, jr is just in the way cause he is helping Mario He acts like he is surprised of seeing mario not that he was expecting him also fallacy fallacy Stealing powerful artifacts is one of bowser gimmicks Hastly generalization Sigh the ruined dragon Biological son and we don’t even know the koopalings age The context is that in the end they became immune to it It’s stated both in website and in game that Concordia is a different world from the mushroom kingdom Lapcat is another dimension or a different planet on the very least it’s sun is cat shaped Those are gameplay mechanics beside in the manga the ice flower freezed an entire world and in galaxy it was easily freezing lava and i know what the sun spirits are 64 were replicas of the main universe and odyssey was both travels to other kingdoms and other dimensions it’s stated in the broque and mario can Refight odyssey bosses and relive the ending as many times as he likes The super Mario rpg remake fused both culex backstories of him being a 2D sprite and a dark knight who controls the forces of space and time The Mario party blacks hole what’s your proof they aren’t actual black holes ? Jedis have lightspeed reaction and it’s actually a lore fact and they are guided by the force to perform these types of feats Yes I figured you meant you were only correcting him on the difference between the fake and the real millennium star No need to be sassy The lumas only accelerated the process they do make up life and the universe itself but they didn’t restart it Pretty much everyone with actual knowledge on the lore knows stars are the most important beings in the Mario universe