How Reddit Crushed the Internet's Largest Protest

[@CodingWithLewis]

We are BACK everyone! Thanks for being patient :) This video took MONTHS to make. We are so excited to show everyone what we are working on.

[@justecho5760]

Quality over quantity imo.

[@CattopyTheWeb]

Good to have you back

[@MMABeijing]

R u from California? Ur up talk speech pattern is so strong

[@CodingWithLewis]

@@MMABeijing I’m not! I’m trying to get rid of it 🥲

[@MMABeijing]

@@CodingWithLewis well good luck. On a side note I have noticed youtubers who have that up speak pattern without being from the bay area, it is an interesting budding pattern. I wonder if this way of talking has propagated through academia and might have influenced students ( you know, sometimes there is a format/speech pattern/posture that influences us on a specific area). Otherwise perfectly normal and intelligent people are starting to talk funny, there must be an explanation

[@oldbonniegamer938]

I think the dumbest move by the Reddit community is giving an end date. A strike doesn't work like that, and you just incentivized the CEO to kick back his feet and wait it out.🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@octoniumvideos]

A bunch of power hungry people that didnt want to lose their power lol. I permanently left reddit

[@goldenfishes3695]

have you ever consider the fact that... sustainability of a company requires it to be making a profit? I keep seeing people supporting the protestors but ain't no one trying to reason out the best way for reddit to be sustainable. Given this, it sounds more like a bunch of squatters trying to forcefully takeover the house they squatted in.

[@Frosty2Leaf]

you expect too much from a redditor - they aren't generally that smart and decisive

[@octoniumvideos]

@@Frosty2Leaf they sure act like they are lol

[@PhilfreezeCH]

@@octoniumvideossame, if I can‘t use Apollo then reddit is completely unusable to me anyway. I just went back to a bunch of dedicated forums instead.

[@yourlocalsip]

The mistake of the protest was globally saying how long it's gonna take.

[@akmalhakimsabri3825]

can you elaborate. I think i missed something in the video

[@mr0o]

​@@akmalhakimsabri3825 The original blackout was announced to be 48 hours. Which meant that reddit wouldn't actually have to do anything, they could just wait 48 hours and then everything would go back to normal.

[@thetommygunshow]

That's cause reddit mods never stepped outside and saw the real world.

[@Wilker_uwu]

@@akmalhakimsabri3825 saying you're gonna be on a strike for 2 days means you're gonna work for the rest of the 363 days of the year. you'll always be ignored if your impact isn't large enough.

[@voidmain7902]

No. The mistake is doing this to a company that the users have no control over. When you do a real company-wide strike and protest inside a company, the company stalls. Compare this to subs locking up by Reddit's own code and 1% of Redditors quit, it feels like a drop in the bucket. Besides that, Reddit has every right to reinstate the posts and subs when things really go south. They literally can't lose.

[@mordechaisanders7033]

What the moderators should do is allow spam. Not only will it hurt reddit usability, it would render reddit's data unsellable to LLM AI models.

[@stigmaoftherose]

The problem was reddit removed mods on subreddits and replaced them with willing simps if you didn't continue to moderate as they liked. And obviously automod would be able to filter most spam so if necessary reddit themselves would just force automod on and filtering aggressively if the subreddit didn't fall in line.

[@aurastrike]

I would have said yes to this if it wasn't for how controlling Reddit has become. They can literally just delete your Reddit account if you don't comply with their demands and they can just change subreddits to revert the changes. There is no fixing this. They WILL succeed.

[@iClone101]

That's what the Minecraft subreddit did. They went from having super strict posting guidelines to allowing just about any Minecraft-related shitpost to show up. It's not spam in the traditional sense, since it's still on-topic, but it greatly reduced the quality of posts you can find.

[@thedog5k]

people should stop using reddit

[@devengurb666]

@@thedog5k yeah. Very toxic place. Got heavily downvoted, and insulted. Just for asking a simple question.

[@YaroLord]

Reddit is truly something special. They got me to spend 80 bucks on a raspberry pi and set up a pihole. Adblocking is easy on desktop, but on mobile it's a daunting task. Not anymore. I would rather spend the 80 bucks than give spez a single cent in ad revenue.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

You must be using New Reddit, you poor sucker

[@fabienso5889]

For anyone wanting to do that a rasberry pi zero w is more than enough and it is 10 dollard +the different connectors I really need to set that up again

[@s1nistr433]

I find people who use Reddit nowadays completely spineless. Imagine still using it even though they clearly don't represent the best interests of their users to the point of mass-censorship and all-out moderator war with most popular subreddits, all to browse memes on a feed EVEN though Lemmy and Scored are both viable alternatives nowadays. Like if you use Reddit in 2023 knowing about the protests then you should value your freedom more

[@tomikun8057]

adguard dns + ublock + revanced = actual adblocking without spending money

[@Sharpless2]

@@fabienso5889 never buy a pi0w. Its nearly useless for most other things so if u just buy it for a pihole and then decide to use it for something else, you cant. You either buy a normal rpi or nothing.

[@jd_27]

thanks to this, i've gone from not using reddit at all to using reddit even less

[@PixalonGC]

negative reddit usage?

[@w2cky400]

​@@PixalonGC reddit uses him

[@siliconhawk]

wait that does not sound right @@w2cky400

[@matthew65536]

@@w2cky400 In soviet russia, reddit uses you

[@5skdm]

Lol same cant use reddit in my country

[@eddebrock]

A protest is never going to work when no one is actually prepared to stop using the service.

[@lucykitsune4619]

I haven't used Reddit since the protests started. Sadly not enough others did the same

[@pizzaivlife]

I did! great decision with how easy it is to waste hours scrolling. a bit sad with how many cool small communities are on the site, but it was for the better for me at least

[@GameMaker3_5]

I use Reddit VERY infrequently, and ultimately probably did stop using the site during the protests. In the very few times nowadays when I do log into Reddit, I do sometimes feel a dirty thing for doing it...

[@ResidentWeevil2077]

I can say the same thing about those of you who complain about how terrible YT is yet don't make the effort to use other platforms. "BuT cReAtOrS aReN't AnYwHeRe ElSe?!?!" they stay because YOU people REFUSE to leave despite your incessant complaints... Can lead a horse to the watering hole but can't make it drink. 🤷‍♂️

[@theviniso]

@@ResidentWeevil2077 The thing is, you can't easily replace YT. Hosting such ridiculous amounts of data is not easy nor cheap. Reddit, in comparison, is mostly text and pictures and there are many alternatives out there with the same features and only lacking the massive userbase. Some are even open-source, like Lemmy and Kbin. The same is true for Twitter/X, Instagram and Facebook.

[@BWAC]

I never liked the Apollo App, controversial i'm sure. But I'm also on Apollos side that Reddit handled this real bad, they had some of the "smartest" people on the internet and they couldn't crowdsource a solution

[@SahilP2648]

Crowdsource a solution? Imagine politicians doing that. That would be more impactful than anything to do with reddit. Just imagine how many people don't even use reddit, or this drama doesn't even affect them in any way. These subreddits took the decision of shutting their respective subdomains down without knowing how many % people don't even care. Do you see the point?

[@Syv_]

@@SahilP2648What a load of rubbish

[@Weneedaplague]

Bro saw a better way to view reddit content and dislikes it and the fact that the dev was better than official reddit devs. Boot lickers nerd😂

[@nikplaysgames4734]

One thing that I wish you mentioned was the reason it was so scary that other moderators chosen by reddit would replace the current moderators if the community doesn't re-open. I won't name names, reddit is notorious for having certain moderators who are extremely corrupt, and work for reddit. The whole point of reddit is that these subreddits are run by the community - if reddit instated their own mods, they would put in these corrupt moderators who work for reddit Also, I wish you mentioned r/place - that was a big thing reddit did to quell the community's anger. And the f*** spez Great video overall though, I feel like you summarized this situation super well!

[@Hartono25277]

Probably couldn't mention r/place because of all the profanities there 😂

[@jabzilla21]

well one mod was the infamous epstein's wife...and the ceo knew what was going on. Is it any surprise reddit is a government controlled cesspool of crap like Twitter was? Like facebook, instagram, tumblr, and many other app/sites are?

[@kered13]

The most corrupt Reddit moderators were some of the leading voices of the protest. *No* moderators work for Reddit, it's an unpaid job. The reason so many moderators are corrupt (especially on the largest sub reddits) is that the only people who want to do a miserable job for no pay are those who desire to hold even the most petty of power.

[@-__Shadow__-]

Some of the community mods are just as bad though I'd not worse, and they manage multiple locations

[@DJ-ic6yk]

As a person apart of r/place it was fun while it lasted.

[@mx338]

It's not reddits data being taken by AI companies, the data belongs to those made it in the first place, the users.

[@shail0124]

Ok! But reddit helped to collect data. And AI companies were using this data for free which worth bollions of dollars

[@CodingWithLewis]

*Cries in Terms and Agreements*

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

​@@CodingWithLewismade to be broken

[@num23end]

STORING AND SEGREGATING DATA COST A LOT OF MONEY and besides you already gave up your rights after signing up. There is no free in this world. the AI companies should pay reddit if they want to access the data.

[@wnsjimbo2863]

@@thewhitefalcon8539 you cant break them

[@CodingWithLewis]

Thanks Snyk for helping with this video! 💻: snyk.co/lewis

[@PatSmashYT]

Reddit didn't crush the protest, the Redditors did it to themselves by giving up so quickly

[@daexion]

Actually, Reddit did crush the protest via promising to take action against the mods. They didn't threaten them, they made a promise they would take action, there is a difference and the mods saw the writing on the wall. It's easy for you to sit there on the sidelines and act like they should have gone down with the ship, but it's not so easy when you're on the ship.

[@Micecheese]

@@daexion haha true! reddit destroyed the silly protest, making a site unusable is what'll kill your mod standing in reddit's eyes to keep you around instead of just setting up good in their eye mods to replace

[@robinspanier7017]

oh no bad reddit is taking my mod rights aways with 0 economic value i better give up because i am a sad, sick redditor

[@caringheart34]

Choosing between totalitarian companies and totalitarian moderators, I'd rather not use Plebbit at all.

[@georgesmith9178]

Did you expect a company to have ethics when in the end it is a for-profit organization? No can do. And those egos .... ah, I am CEO, how dare you ask for a good deal!? It will be what I tell you. Let this be a lesson for every developer. Before you start creating valuable apps, strike a deal with the provider. This way at least you got yourself covered for a period of 5 or whatever number of years you got them to sign for. It is much easier for them to say yes when your idea is just an idea and there isn't much money pouring into your pockets. So, lawyer up in advance. That's the language they understand when push comes to shove.

[@HoneyDoll894]

Especially when the CEO is/was heavily involved in at the very least questionable if not straight up illegal child "material". Majority of the history of Reddit is not doing anything until it's forced to and it helps itself. Far right hate subs? Nope. Pics of children for freaks to jerk to? Nope. Combating hate speech? Nope. Nothing was done about these until advertisers started pulling out or law enforcement started getting involved.

[@christopherlee7334]

They also understand the language of mass hacks, personal threats and damage to their homes and family in minecraft.

[@QuwapaQuwapus]

I think the biggest problem with the shutdown was that it didn't work. Not only was it very short, and reddit knew they would be back in a couple days, (It would have been better if Reddit didn't know, but i'm not sure how we could have done that), and there were still lots of big subreddits open. for example, r/memes (or r/dank memes, maybe both?) was still up, which was more than enough content for those couple days. Also, I had been using r/sheep to help treat my lamb at the time, as I live in a very rural area and don't have access to vets or medical professionals. I know what people say about using information from reddit, but the r/sheep community was very helpful in helping me identify problems she was having and how to go about treating them. She passed a few days into the subreddits extended protest. I don't want to say that i blame reddit fully for me loosing my lamb, (as she was very sick and it was only a matter of time before she passed anyway) but I was very very close to her, and at the time I did blame reddit for it at least partially. So my point being, the biggest subreddits that people actually _use_ reddit for stayed open, and the "Q&A" subreddits were the ones that closed. And even then, 90% of the subreddits that _were_ doing it weren't close for long enough for Reddit to be worried.

[@Nick-zp8wk]

It's hilarious how all reddit had to do was threaten to take away the mods internet power and they all folded like paper.

[@Serphentin]

Plenty of moderators did stick to their guns. They got replaced. The issue is the replacements were chosen by reddit and tended to be shitty, corrupt assholes. The moderators who capitulated very often weren't doing it because they cared that much about keeping the power, it was to avoid surrendering their communities' wellbeings to unknown randoms.

[@CattopyTheWeb]

Fantastic video, Lewis! Great editing. It's really sad that Reddit just slammed the door to their API infront of all the developers using it. If they don't want companies like OpenAI training on that data they could've made API plans. A cheaper API plan for small developers and a more expensive plan for big companies. R.I.P Apollo and other third party Reddit clients

[@rdean150]

Most AI companies are startups. OpenAI was originally a non-profit. That sort of pricing would be abused.

[@dawoodshah7649]

But market value of top A.I companies reached to billions on behalf of our data.

[@ninjascotsman]

Wtf are you talking about a number of 3rd party applications are still running.

[@parthjha955]

Exactly my thought. I don't think Reddit's decision was outright evil, you need to take care of opportunity costs as market changes. But they probably forgot that customer value is equally important. If Reddit wanted to save these millions of opportunity costs, they could have added at least some thousands of operating cost to setup a client based API pricing.

[@frien_d]

has reddit at any point in this ordeal considered making his official app suck less or at least let me use reddit from the browser without nagging?

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Actually they've consistently made it suck more. Their original one sucked so they bought a third party one and made it suck too.

[@kered13]

The Reddit app sucks because it's built to deliver ads. An app that sucks less can't be made because it wouldn't be profitable.

[@nulano]

@@kered13No, it sucks because it's just bad. There is no reason opening the same post in the official app should take 10x longer than in a third party app just to display the same content. I had really bad WiFi for a while (1Mbit/s) and the official app would often time out, while a third party app would open any post almost immediately...

[@theviniso]

That's what made me leave. Their app sucks compared to any of the old third-party ones and there was no effort from them to make it better whatsoever. I've been on Lemmy ever since this happened and while there's not nearly as much content there at least there are many nice third-party apps to choose from.

[@samuelmontypython8381]

Shame about Apollo. I would have gladly paid a subscription fee to keep using it and keep the community alive. The official Reddit app is archaic and practically unusable compared to Apollo's UI/UX.

[@DosDude]

There's voyager for lemmy. It's basically Apollo, but for lemmy, so you won't have to use reddit anymore either. And you can stop supporting anti consumer behaviors this way.

[@orangejjay]

I quit using reddit after they killed off third party apps and while I was a little apprehensive about what I would do online in the beginning ... I'm now so much happier and learning so much more than I ever thought possible. reddit is a cesspool. There's some good communities but for the most part, reddit is excessively negative and it was adding to my depression. Since abandoning reddit (or, rather, since reddit abandoned its long-time users ... again) my mood has improved and my depression is gone. I think being constantly bombarded by negativity from the comments section has an awful effect on us and I am so glad to be away from it.

[@zenastronomy]

100%. exactly the same. got banned by a racist mod site wide. and appeals got me nowhere. so never bothered to make a new account.

[@XYZB0RG]

social medias are dangerous and unhealthy. they trap you in your computer because they're designed to keep your attention and make you mad over stupid things happening miles away from your real life. best thing to do is cut all ties with massive internet communities and only use messaging platforms to talk with good friends

[@ytshotmaker]

Where are you going for answers to general questions instead? Throwing "reddit" on the end of a google search seems to be one of the few ways for the search results to not be an absolute dumpster fire nowadays. I would happily quit the site if not for that

[@XYZB0RG]

​ @ytshotmaker if there's a forum for it, ask there. the linuxquestions site helped 1000% more than reddit did. people on forums are way less snobby too

[@FeebleAntelope]

// Throwing "reddit" on the end of a google search seems to be one of the few ways for the search results to not be an absolute dumpster fire nowadays. Browsing the site for answers is lower level use. Not worth worrying about too much, IMO. We all have to live in society today and part of that means accessing information. I think a more important thing is whether people support the site by providing free content to it. They portrayed themselves as a community, crowdsourced thing when really they're engaging in lop-sided labor practices; they squeeze so much value from people they never pay. And yet they hold the position that they only people they're accountable to are shareholders. Not to the people who create all the value of their company. They would have NOTHING without unpaid users having created everything on the site. F++k them. They don't deserve anything for free. Before the end of June, I deleted every comment and post I ever made. I only keep my accounts active at the moment so I can log in every now and again to make sure they don't reinstate what I deleted.

[@TheEpicNub]

Redditors are like those small dogs that bark alot, they might make a lot of noise but ultimately they are harmless and will obey like good little boys.

[@rogermwilcox]

14:41 : $0.24 is NOT "Point twenty-four cents". It's twenty-four cents. That's a factor of 100 larger.

[@Aaron.Seabolt]

RIP Apollo and all of the other third party Reddit apps. Screw you Spez. Great video Lewis.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Heil spez

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

Reddit more like deddit. They're turning it into buzzfeed or ifunny

[@privatedoorknob7408]

I've pretty much stopped using reddit when reddit is fun stopped working :(

[@williamdrum9899]

"Spez" sounds like a slur against the handicapped

[@nightmarerex2035]

someone should make a reddit alternative without globalist site owners, karma censorship system and without stupid fat moderators, like make it a rule mods cant just do whatever TF they want (unless that sub WANTS it that way)

[@jake3111]

I'm surprised you didn't mention lemmy at all in this. It saw it's biggest spike of users during this time and a lot of people have stayed using lemmy

[@wardrich]

Reddit didn't really crush anything. The mods were pathetic in their threats, and the admins basically tried to scan the mods of the subreddits that were protesting properly. Really though, it comes as no surprise. The site's admins seem to have been trying really hard over the past 5+ years to kill itself off with horrible redesigns, a garbage app, and banning good communities while allowing the dangerous ones to thrive.

[@siliconhawk]

well reddit still had a hard grip on them tho, at least the indefinite protest ones, problem is reddit is private and not public space like you know roads and public squares are in real world. this is why private companies should never be trusted. reddit could and did enforce a hard stance on changing moderators, and the average user is also someone who talks about it for 2 comments and then move on. i am 100% sure like 99% of the users went back to reddit after this entire fiasco happened.

[@RhelrahneTheIdiot]

The mods were utterly pathetic, pathetic for closing their subreddits without even consulting the will of even 10% members willing to vote on the matter let alone the will the majority who'd probably have desired them to stay open.

[@bewawolf19]

@@siliconhawk Not an issue with private companies, but an issue with the consumer. The consumers of Reddit already accept extreme political censorship and the other restrictions the platform have, so it is no surprise the same consumers don't care about anything else either. The service is still what they want so they are getting what they are willing to pay for.

[@lucykitsune4619]

Like how I got a 3 day ban for saying I would punch a Nazi

[@cocoasulphur]

Incredible video! Complete madness how Reddit went from being the 'free, community-focused' alternative to websites like Twitter and Facebook... only to betray that image and become just another money-hungry e-corporation

[@CodingWithLewis]

You look familiar

[@Sora-el-manco]

"Free, community-focused" isn't possible with a centralized network

[@GoldenTeeTV]

Reddit wasn't a pioneer in open access APIs for developers. Many companies had them in the early 2000s, such as SalesForce, eBay, and Amazon. Flickr, Facebook, and Google Maps followed suit. By 2008, SaaS APIs were common. Reddit's API was nothing new. good video though

[@ItsJustOneGuy]

The boycott should have been permeant with programmers creating an alternative to reddit.

[@Sammysapphira]

It's not that easy

[@wnsjimbo2863]

yeah . programmers will waste millions to create alternative

[@patrickmartin2236]

Just... you haven't heard about lemmy and mastodon during that commotion ?

[@siliconhawk]

that's the issue the alternative already exists but people don't migrate to use the new app, like i doubt 90% of the people even know Lemmy/fediverse exists or not, and whats the best part, its all open source so a rug pull like reddit happening are non negligible. but people being people (stupid) its didn't exactly threaten reddit. and the other subreddits didnt even migrate. only the technically and programmer heavy subs even took the effort to migrate. well at least the alternatives are not filled with bots and cringe

[@SpellMenderDev]

@@patrickmartin2236 o my god thanks for name-dropping those platforms. I'd never heard of them before now. My internet community thirst has come to an end!

[@xymaryai8283]

so you want to build a community accessible to a wide network of people with your own rules and complete control of your backend? Lemmy is extremely underrated, it allows users from any community to join yours without making a new account, and you can make a community on someone elses server, or run your own. a bunch of the original reddit communities moved back during the shutdown. its time to bring back community control.

[@alexlun4464]

People keep being taught this lesson. Companies ain't your friends!!! You're profit, no more, no less.

[@timotheatae]

I deleted my account because of it, I don't intend to come back after this behaviour from corporate.

[@axel0563]

R.I.P Apollo 🕊️

[@ClayDress]

Most of my favorite subreddits are completely gone. Most went dark due to moderators not being able to run them without automated systems using API.

[@XYZB0RG]

"favorite" "subreddits" that's an oxymoron if i've ever seen one

[@5spec]

​@@XYZB0RGcare to explain?

[@XYZB0RG]

​ @5spec reddit bad

[@budmb2]

Gotta love all of the Redditors criticizing the app while using it daily and purchasing Reddit coins for gifts.

[@Life4YourGames]

The community did not keep up the protest and basically gave up before announcing the protest. However things would still have been in turmoil if r/place hadn't been re-opened as a distraction. Basically this was a disgusting attempt of a distraction and users collectively made clear it worked.

[@gargamelgamingotherstuff6727]

And people fell for it and reddit knew that. they just had to sit and wait out the "10" offended people to vanish and its quited down rapidly.

[@thatjeff7550]

Late to the party but something my Youngest shared with me last night seems appropriately fitting in this case. She told me that long ago, Google's corporate motto was "Do not evil" and that years ago, that motto was quietly removed from their site. LOL Not sure if that's true but I'd like to think it is.

[@nightmarerex2035]

yea its true. reserch agenda 2030 2050.

[@craigyeah1052]

Actually learned about this in college, interesting stuff.

[@aus87185]

The reason this all failed wasn’t the mods, it’s the users. I deleted all my accounts the day Apollo went offline in support of Christian. Haven’t touched it since and use search operators to exclude the domain from my searches. They don’t get my traffic, ad revenue or data. Most redditors complained about it for a couple weeks then went back to business as usual, just as they said would happen. They laughed at you , to your face, and you chuckled along with them. Gj letting them get away with it.

[@ultimate50s98]

Yes, because democracy is not the people themselves shutting down their subreddits. Instead, democracy is just the shareholders who only care about money. It truly amazes me the mental gymnastics that Steve Huffman can perform.

[@RandomBruh]

Well as someone who didn't know about this whole fiasco until it was happening, I wouldn't call shutting down subreddits, run by the few (moderators) and used by the masses (users), democratic either.

[@xaf15001]

@@RandomBruh That's the biggest reason this fails. You don't exactly need 3rd party apps, so the price increase only affect a minority that uses it. It's easy to overlook wars not fought in your country.

[@AlbertoTuber]

@@xaf15001 How is a few mods deciding to shutdown a subreddit democratic? Moreover, reddit is a private company, it has nothing to do with democracy

[@majormushu]

I cant remember what it was now but i remember searching for something during that time and the ONLY answer was on reddit but was cut off right at the point that i needed it in google search results and i went apeshit. It was a time sensitive matter and the only answer that existed was hidden because of a protest and i was PISSED.

[@timecubed]

The only way to continue this protest is for everyone to stop using Reddit. We all know we can't do that.

[@technicolourmyles]

I have. I'm not sure how many others have as well, though.

[@ashwinrawat9622]

I stopped using it before stopping its use was cool

[@siliconhawk]

i always assume the average internet user has just as much of a spine and self control as a slug or a amoeba. that is none. they always talk about stuff but will never actively do it. the same is true for youtube, be it ad block blocking or the users complaining about bot comments, TRASH DMCA and copyright abuse policies or any problem on youtube for that matter.

[@lacathouille]

I stopped, came back for the place event, then quit again. Fuck Spez, defacing the front page of the internet

[@revuutube]

Where do you go instead?@@technicolourmyles

[@bovinespongiformflu]

"like reddit moderations tools"

[@HarryDaDevSecond]

Probably the best video from you so far. Love every aspect of it.

[@CodingWithLewis]

Thanks so much Harry :D

[@eunomiac]

Holy crap this is the most polished, well-edited, well-paced, technically perfect video I think I've ever seen on KZbin.

[@ffunit]

Imagine being a Dev. You create a revolutionary social media app. You toil and toil. You fight through the doubts and now new and upcoming Devs build upon your work, make it better and use your data while being much more efficient doing so. You’d be salty too. At the end of the day it’s their data.

[@IsfetSolaris]

I was one of the moderators who was removed by reddit administration for my decision to maintain the blackout. The biggest mistake we made was stating an end date. It should have been indefinite from the start. The admins and reddit higher ups could just sit back for 2 days, knowing most of the site would come back on the 14th.

[@indulgencerofindulgence5970]

Far less people would be willing to go with a indefinite blackout.

[@IsfetSolaris]

@@indulgencerofindulgence5970 doesn't matter. I know from talking with their mods that several massive subs (including r/funny, r/mildlyinfuriating, and r/aww) as well as many smaller ones (mostly gaming and KZbinr subreddits) were all willing to go indefinite from day 1. It was a significant enough portion that it would still severely hurt reddit's traffic and ad payout.

[@viwesbot]

In good old days before ai and all these advancement, i used reddit daily but nowdays, its been like few months i opened reddit. Its cool to have fun there for me but i dont feel happy anymore using it. As a newbie devloper i can see its not viable for small application owner to pay that much fees but that price is reasonable for ai models. anyways Lewis Great Video

[@keyonlewis7574]

What type of developer are you?

[@ScrumpyWingnuts201]

I think its safe to say that things will only get worse for users and advertisers. With interest rates as they are, social media platforms now have to actually be making money for shareholders

[@jaysonrees738]

Aaron Swartz would probably vomit at what Reddit has become. To this day, I've not made an account, and I hate visiting that hellhole.

[@revuutube]

Absolutely, but I don't know where else to replace it with, and there's still sometimes helpful things on there. Until it can be replaced in a worthwhile way, it's still the horrible junk food we reach for just because we're bored. Aaron's free speech reddit was amazing. I want another place like that.

[@jaysonrees738]

@@revuutube Seems that any place that gains sufficient popularity ends up getting destroyed.

[@overlordprincekhan]

When a disaster hits, it hits hard on anyone no matter who they are. Reddit is an exemplary of this.

[@gavinhogberg]

I'm not sure if it's still active, but for months after it happened, all r/Shitposting posts had to have "heil spez" in the title

[@Renni-kg6vf]

If Aaron Swartz were still around, he would never let something like this happen ☹️

[@blargminton]

Honestly it's hard for me to care. Reddit moderators were all too happy to permaban people and communities they didn't like arbitrarily and now Reddit staff are doing the same thing and I'm supposed to care? Reddit makes Twitter look like a decent website and that's been true for quite a while now

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

Redit did not have to work very hard to turn users against mods. Everything they said was the truth, and most users have been fed up with them for a long time now. The sad truth is, when they stopped moderating the quality of the content improved.

[@maximilianschug6271]

It also, for me at least,allowed me to find more niche but quality subs when the big ones went down with their mods temper tantrum.

[@Hollowdude15]

This editing looks so awesome when you talk about reddit and great video man :]

[@arto00-g2n]

Gotta say this is one of you most entertaining and informative videos I remember seeing. Anyways, people forget the people behind these top positions or startups are not much brighter and the rest of us. They do their job well and got lucky. They are not master minds and or strategists working on world domination. They screw up and hopefully someone snaps back and says, “hey let’s stop there and try a different approach”. That’s where the leaders come in but unfortunately skill and talent does not make you a leader. Other values like sympathy, wisdom, etc. You know more boring stuff not hot in job postings when hiring executives.

[@zdelrod829]

I mean, it's impressive that it was so large-scale. And it was technically a peaceful protest too.

[@robw3610]

Would be interesting to see the long term ramifications from this. Im not, nor have ever been a user of the site, but their actions have made it so that I will never be a user of the site. It makes me wonder how many other users they have lost permanently over this.

[@IceFire1800]

Been using Reddit before, during, and after blackout week. It hasn't changed anything, and it doesn't even come up anymore. They'll have lost a tolerable amount of users, and I'm willing to be a bunch will eventually come back anyway. It's gonna become more of a tiny blip as time goes on. Reddit is functionally a singular meta-forum that hosts a whole ton of specific sub-forums, they have image/video hosting taken care of as well and it's all free to users. Your other options are what? Quora or Facebook groups? As for the people who never engaged with the website. Well they were never a profit source so they are not a loss-factor now

[@SupersuMC]

I moved to tumblr and deleted the reddit app from my phone. Not coming back in the foreseeable future.

[@theviniso]

@@IceFire1800 There are plenty of free options that are functionally identical to Reddit. Lemmy, Kbin, Scored, Tildes... Lemmy, which is my main time waster ever since I left Reddit, even has a bunch of cool third-party apps to choose from like Reddit used to have.

[@ernestmarcinko]

This is going viral for sure. The storyteling is top notch, so is the editing.

[@gargamelgamingotherstuff6727]

It went so viral.. it took over 4 months for it to get shown to me in either reddit or here on YT.. so viral..

[@oyu7214]

The best was when a subreddit turned completly NSFW, then reddit staff told them to not mark the subreddit as NSFW (it was cause NSFW posts in protest)

[@TheUboni]

Spez handled this like a dictator, I do not agree with how the series of events with Reddit and Apollo went down. On the other side I think you skipped over a few things here that don't paint most third party apps in the best light. Reddit is losing money hand over first and many third party apps are designed to not show adds which is how Reddit makes money. You can kind of understand why Reddit wanted to rid themselves of third party apps, they used Reddit resources but didn't allow Reddit to make their cut.

[@CodingWithLewis]

I mentioned this at the end. I don’t think that the Reddit api should’ve been for free. Charging for APIs is more than ok!

[@ASH-rc6hd]

Reddit didn’t provide a way for developers to show reddit ads to begin with

[@TheGreatSeraphim]

"Charge us 10 million and well half requests in 6 months." "Lol you've been using the api free for years, we want money now."

[@chmod-tf7ei]

Apollo should now make their own 'reddit'

[@johannoas1]

People made their own reddit, with drugs and hookes. Its called lemmy. The fediverse had for a long time an decentralized alternative to reddit

[@alexwr]

Why? It would suffer the same problem as the Fediverse. It doesn't matter how good the app is, if the people are on an app and it's good enough for their needs, they aren't going to just up and switch. It's the people that make these apps, not the features.

[@wnsjimbo2863]

they refused to pay 20 million a year for apis, how they could build their own reddit , that would cost more

[@X-3K]

@@wnsjimbo2863 It would, that's why some of Apollo's contemporaries decided to replace the reddit API with an API for reddit's current, albeit small, competitor Lemmy instead of shutting down all together. Notably: Sync and Eternity, and they seem to have pivoted well and i personally use Eternity, so in some alternate timeline, Apollo could have done the same

[@williamdrum9899]

They could make a kickstarter, I think it would rake in money just to give reddit the finger

[@Power0fM]

Well the protest worked for me! I went from scrolling for hours on Reddit to sometimes using Lemmy, and the rest of the time just not using my phone lol.

[@jonathangamble]

Apollo should have created its own Redit with all the momentum and the moderators... of course no web version nor android was a mistake grom the beginning

[@HistoryAmazigh]

The Real Answer !

[@fremmenista]

Other platforms already in later stages of development exist to fit this and got a major boost in quality traffic. (Kbin, Lemmy, etc) these take the extra steps to make it a federated system, to prevent corporate hell that has rotted so many other platforms. Some old Reddit 3PAs have been reworking to support these platforms. (I think Sync and Boost are the names of two that converted to support Lemmy)

[@theviniso]

@@fremmenista Dude, I can't tell you how much I missed the third-party apps. Lemmy works fine on the browser but using Voyager (which basically functions like Apollo did) is a much better experience. I'm never coming back to Reddit and their crap app.

[@WolfmanDude]

Reddit should demand a monthly payment from any moderator. That would be hilarious on so many levels! You and me both know they would pay it!

[@LoFiAxolotl]

What we really learned.... Most reddit moderators were more interested in keeping their "social standing" and "power" as a moderator than the actual problem.... showing that even the tiniest bit of power goes to peoples heads

[@gargamelgamingotherstuff6727]

Of course.. just look at the "top" (bottom) mods, a select FEW handfull people "mods" hundreds of hundres fo sub-reddits..

[@tomaccino]

I'm a reddit mod. I have a disability and live in mom's basement. I don't have a girlfriend and don't have any friends. When I help people moderate stuff I feel happy, especially when women send me messages. I feel like million dollars, like a handsome chad guy driving a black Mercedez. How else can I achieve this? I'm obese and eating at McDonalds. I grew a beard like chad guys do but I don't attract anyone. I started showering daily and putting on perfumes but still no luck. Women just look down on me. But my momma said I can be anything, so reddit gives me that sense of fullfillment, the high school jock that I never was, the hot shot driving a convertible to his own house with a wife inside... I have none of that. I feel great being a mod! I also mod a certain women's health subreddit by pretending to be a woman. I read so many secrets from women. It's awesome! Ok, gotta go, my mom made dinner and then I need to clean her toys in the bedroom.

[@malcolmliang]

Giving an end date is such a weak move. I boycott any restaurant that wanted me to show the jab pass til this date, I do not care if you go out of business.

[@shiftymcgee4183]

Thats how everyone knew all the janitors were completely full of **** lol, important enough to protest, not important enough to risk their pathetic mop for

[@namae6637]

Still haven't used Reddit since the Apollo controversy. Life goes on same as ever.

[@andersenzheng]

I for one quit reddit cold turkey since the strike and never returned back. I know I'm in the minority, but I feel like this whole shenanigans is reddit proving to their investors how addictive their product is. If they can show their potential investors that reddit could be a complete bell and piss off a large number of their user, then still in a few days a lot of them will crawl back, they have created something very special and addictive therefore their product is now more expensive. Therefore spez will pocket more money from the IPO, and that, is something I do not like to see. And that's what kept me from ever re-downloading reddit app, or clicking any URL starts with reddit.

[@blazingarrows6117]

That is crazy they so misinterpreted what he said. They should have ask questions instead of accusing him.

[@ebr__]

24:49 thank you for pointing that out I was thinking the same. You shouldn't build your whole business model on a single provider.

[@JustVincentD]

I think it's funny how big Companies see the posts and media of their users as their own assets and want other people to pay for that. Who pays the User?

[@shail0124]

Users are using service provided by big companies. It is because of them users are connected and share data with eachother. They are not paying company and compay is not paying them. I think it is fair enough.

[@JustVincentD]

@@shail0124 I think using Data for their products is fair, but selling datasets or the Data itself as their own product is not fair in my opinion, because it is not their creation.

[@zenastronomy]

​@@shail0124company is stealing their work by claiming it as theirs. that's a big difference.

[@zenastronomy]

​@@weird-guythere is no freedom in an unequal relationship

[@Snow_Weaver]

I feel like the Mods during this protest did the same thing. It would have been one thing to block new posts but to block people from viewing THEIR OWN posts was poor judgement on the mods part and painted themselves as the villains.

[@DanZiemecki]

Great video. I enjoy how well this covers the details. I do think think there's a missed opportunity in not mentioning Reddit alternatives like Lemmy.

[@ddeine_]

I am honestly shocked. I wanted to do my Bachelor Thesis with help of reddit data but this drama might make things impossible for me…

[@galenwrathweld]

Watching a bunch of people who dedicate time comepletely for free go so thoroughly spineless the moment their volunteering was threatened was hilarious to watch, I'm sorry but anyone who thought that a protest to abandon an app that nobody within the app was prepared to stop using and with an announced end time only days away was going to work wasn't being realistic. People wanted to cry havoc when Reddit was dismissive of them but proved Reddit 1000% correct. I hope in the future we see people who actually dedicated themselves to this boycott, the people who stopped using the site outright and the moderators that stood there ground and were replaced, joining with all these displaced programmers and just making their own community run site.

[@jspencer89yt]

Great video and a great topic I'm actually shocked that Apple was so lenient with their API extension

[@robmad0x]

What a coincidence that I stumpled across this 3 months after it's happened without even knowing, tho in solidarity to the dev community and Apollo as a fellow dev myself i'll happily boycott reddit forever from this day, rarely seen any use of it before and wont be now either. And as someone stated further down in comments; "I think devs should actively create anti ads software against reddit. money = control is the rule they follow, so why shouldn't we use it to take control." I'll gladly follow this example, this will likely make users find valid non bloated content and information aswell. Thanks Lewis and well made video.

[@JeffS96]

Yeah everyone peotested for a couple of days and then went back. Imagine doing that in a labour dispute. I'm still protesting. Deleted all my accounts and have only opened reddit by mistake when i click a link without fully thinking about what I'm doing. My life is better without it anyway, the only trouble i have is when I need information about something but turns out getting a library card solved some of that anyway.

[@NatjoOfficial]

I do genuinely reckon Apollo got caught in the crossfire, tho not unintentionally. If Reddit wanted to do something like get ads on thirdparty apps, they could have simply changed the API terms and condition to run more from the ads to them like they did here. Reddit was 100% grumpy at AI companies using their API for free data, so changed the terms and services. HOWEVER, they could have also added a clause that third party apps could carry on using the API for cheap, but they didn't, and then aggressively began to slander apps like Apollo. I think they were likely fine just having the apps around, but when the opportunity arose, reddit snapped at the chance to take the third party apps out.

[@DePhoegonIsle]

Honestly, I was never behind the protestors on this one. They blamed reddit for needing the monetization, when .. ya know the real pressure was on because of 3rd party apps & more so scrapping bots, including AI tools & such that was becoming a real issue and has shown no signs of slowing down. Sorry, but this is exactly what happens when a culture whom have been based entirely on venture capitalists 'funding' burning an unrealistic amount of resources with no real way of compensation for their use or support in the long run. We're just no seeing projects really fail because they were NEVER going to succeed without a bottomless well of money to burn & use. The problem that most these people entirely forget about is this. 'Someone has to pay to support that service', and 'public sector stuff, that most don't think twice about & wouldn't ever pay for personally' are paid for by taxes & distributed manners with an involuntary method. This is one of those cracks that show, and will be used in the future as proof that just like public sector stuff like roads, parks, garbage, etc... has to be paid for by everyone through distributed ways via taxes, so that your favorite sites & places remain functional and in shape for you & others to visit, and it's in your best interest to have those things in functioning order else the stress on everything else jumps the more other services just fail to be able to keep up or remain working.

[@wagyourtai1]

a bunch of us end users realized we could just make a private subreddit, and suddenly the api limits were gone and we could use third party apps, by abusing the moderator loophole

[@copperfield42]

Too bad for Apollo, but for me personally I didn't even knew there were alternatives to the official app plus I mainly use the browser version, so for me this protest was no more than a nuisance

[@Firesgone]

9:15 Reading through that log. Reddit was right to interpret that as a threat, the way "Me" talks is very strange and incredibly indirect using metaphors I have to assume are purely from Reddit culture. They are talking in a very manipulative way, never stating anything clearly. As the Apollo team are very likely to be fully immersed in Reddit's community they would know best how the community would backlash, and could easily manipulate it themselves. Incredibly sleezy behavior, and you can see Reddit's negotiator bafflement at this bastard. For those who didn't understand what happened; They imply that they will do something to harm Reddit if they don't give them $10 million dollars. I can't take what was said by Apollo in any good faith after reading this chat log, though another way to interpret what was being said (rather incorrectly given how it was said with the very heavy handed implication and their responses after) is to give them a break for 6 months to delay an official statement. The inevitable community backlash wasn't mentioned so it will not be credited through this interpretation. All in all, beyond unprofessional and a good way to be 'fired' from any further negotiation. Which is exactly what happened. Given the involved stereotypes of nerd programmers being socially incompetent, and the more negative reddit mod stereotypes. I can unfortunately see this as a genuine misunderstanding. Really goes to show how far a skilled negotiator can take you. As far as 'ripping off the bandaid' goes, a protest was inevitable so they actually did so rather than drag it out another 6 months.

[@prometheus6001]

My opinion. Reddit was never after the big AI consumers. They were always after the money. There are lots of ways to keep the API users who are not feeding data to AI while making ti difficult for AI vendors to get the data for free. I dare say AI vendors may be using more than the API to get the data they need cos they consume a lot of data.

[@gargamelgamingotherstuff6727]

You could probably just create your own addon for your browser, give it access to read all data on the page and then just sit and surf around.. no api needed..

[@aromatic8565]

😂😂😂 sent shockwaves. No one gave a shit. Only reddit users cared that reddit was off. How massively it failed. Imagine a workers strike that doesnt affect the public at all.

[@tameemalkhliefat3036]

Wow, the way you explained this allowed me to understand everything although i still didn't learn anything related to API and made me want to get to learn APIs as soon as possible, wonderful video!

[@Dani_RdM]

How to make reddit mods bend their knees: Threaten to remove their power.

[@crowdtales-io]

Your video is really good. I don't understand why it's lacking of viewers. This deserves WAY more views! What an extremely GREAT job Lewis!

[@gargamelgamingotherstuff6727]

Its because that 99% of the users doesnt care about this subject, they dont even know wtf happened and listens to spazznys side only.. you know those sheeples that are too dumb for their own good..

[@LoLWorldChampionships]

I still don't use reddit over this whole thing.

[@MultiSciGeek]

As much as I hate reddit, I 20% agree with their CEO here. Although ironically his business, just like reddit mods, is also not democratic. F*ckin hate the way that site is run and managed, and "the community" is honestly not much better than the business owners. It's a shitshow all over the place. The only reason the "community" reacted now is cause they have something to loose, not because they're acting in good faith towards the avarage user.

[@graphincer3164]

Reddit crushed the protest but now I swapped to Lemmy and only use reddit when I need things only available on there

[@aeases-]

Yeah I switched to twitter after the blackout. I'd rather live through the stupid anti-consumer changes both failing and working than wait in suspense for the already tried and tested ones to get implemented

[@brandon8902]

You're currently my favourite creator to watch, keep it up Lewis!

[@yuvalne]

if you want an open API, don't rely on a closed, proprietary platform.

[@deemon710]

Thanks for playing the conversation for us. I feel that media (and even you) reported it as way more tense a conversation.

[@MatthewCobalt]

WGA and the Actors Guild strike proved that strikes will work. You just don't give away how long you will stay striking.

[@NikeGipple]

Fortunately, there are alternatives to reddit that work much better. Some of the old applications have already switched to new open systems

[@herbst1398]

I avoid reddit and dont miss it - Reddit is dead, there is no need for this

[@JohnSmith-lc1ml]

At first I didnt care about the changes but then I thought I would actually checkout some of the alternative fourms. I ended up settling on Lemmy and it had some issues but it was awesome. After figuring out how lemmy worked I checked out the rest of the fediverse and now ill never go back to reddit or twitter. I'm just looking for something to replace KZbin and then im fully checked out of the internet monopolies.

[@ThickpropheT]

I stopped actively using my Facebook a long time ago because of all of these data ownership issues. It's still up because they're gonna keep my data either way, so I may as well keep it up and be able to still use it myself if I ever feel like it, but I certainly don't put anything new on there for them to sell. I can't believe I never thought of this with regard to reddit. I feel kind of like a rube, because of course this is the eventuality we were always heading toward and I didn't see it coming. Oh well. Another monster I'm no longer feeding

[@Dmitry_Russia]

Such an awesome creation Lewis, I watched this video in one sitting and it never made me feel bored, your storytelling skills are just too good. Thumbs up for content