How Shadow of the Erdtree made everyone lose their minds

[@brianquint6126]

The "Mixed Rating" was almost entirely Chinese players who were upset they couldn't use cheat software anymore to get around the CCP's limit on gaming hours per day.

[@LudgerProd]

Wait Fr? Also what changed so they can’t do that anymore?

[@madman5710]

Git gud is not a condescending statement. It’s the fromsoft philosophy. It’s what makes the game so rewarding. If it offends you, you gotta leave your ego at the door and git gud.

[@smokey_jäger]

Pure facts m8

[@austin0_bandit05]

Then why does everyone use it as an insult. I've been playing these for years and its always been a cop out

[@ervin264]

​@@austin0_bandit05twitch chat and KZbin comments everything that goes on there becomes toxic

[@birb829]

Great video, I think what these "veterans" forget is that you're supposed to have fun playing a game. You don't need to "earn" your victory if you're not having fun bashing your head against a certain boss or area, just use the tools the game intentionally gives you and make it a bit easier for yourself. I used to gatekeep myself from all of the things people called "easy mode" because I wanted to feel good about myself beating it the "chad" or "hardcore" way but with elden rings release, pre-nerf radahn literally beat that mentality out of me and made me use AND enjoy all the tools at my disposal. The DLC bosses do have some problems in my opinion, but people complaining that the DLC is too hard just can't rise up to the challenge they put up for themselves and need to start summoning some grass.

[@austin0_bandit05]

I would agree more if "the tools" didnt trivialize bosses. I also have zero interest in farming for ingredients if I run out of a consumable. Also, with how limited larval tears and ancient dragon stones it seriously disincentivizes changing your build. Idk why they dont just add a bell bearing. I think Armored Core 6 did this well by making it a painless process and a core mechanic. I also hate feeling that I have to totally revamp my build. If I make a paladin build and get stuck. Ope 🤷🏼‍♂️ guess I cant be a paladin anymore. Half of the problem is balancing. There are some weapons, builds, talismans, etc that are just so subjectively bad that a new player could get soft locked. And unless I pull up the wiki and start doing math I cant be sure as a player if a build will be viable or not. But of course people will always point to someone who like beat the game fists only on a dance pad like that means anything. Its like I cant do that and neither can you 😂. That being said I dont have too much of a problem with it. My gripes are really with the boss fesign philosophy

[@MizukiNoDoragon]

@@austin0_bandit05 the tools hardly trivialize bosses, even the mimic tear in the DLC will die if you don't help it enough

[@austin0_bandit05]

@@MizukiNoDoragon Some builds absolutely can trivialize bosses. Look at Asmongold. He quit because it was goo hard than got the Fingerprint shield and it was easy. Mimic tear absolutely makes bosses SIGNIFICANTLY easier

[@MizukiNoDoragon]

@@austin0_bandit05 end game items make the end game easier? who'd have thought

[@austin0_bandit05]

@@MizukiNoDoragon That logic doesnt make any sense seeing as several early game weapons and tools are outstanding from beginning to end.

[@avEn_12]

souls veteran here, beat elden ring lv1 along with some other souls, anyway I too don't get this gatekeeping. I have friends that aren't great at those games, they need those tools (summons, OP builds and all) to make the game easier and more fun for them, so that they can love the very same game that I love. This way we can share our experiences and simply talk about it. I would never downplay their achievements and how they got them. (anyway, currently with a fever and your video kept me a little company)

[@jespermaintz8993]

Just wanted to chime in on the subject of ‘reused enemies’ from the base game. As a gamer, who haven’t touched Elden Ring in two years and just went head-first into the DLC, I actually thought it was good fun to see some familiar ‘faces’ again, and the encounters are so sparse, I can only imagine that’s what From was going for. Great video, by the way - +1 sub from Denmark.

[@upper_case_T]

Thanks! I can definitely see where you are coming from. I think what made it rather negative for me was the specific types of enemies they reused, as I just didn't want to see those again lmao.

[@kinshorin]

I think my major complaint with the scadu tree fragments is they're not quite as well placed around the world as things like the sacred tears or golden seeds. I also just am not much of a fan of the system itself, but I can at least understand the logic behind them implementing it, even if I still don't like it. I don't dislike most of the bosses for the fights themselves, besides maybe phase 2 of the final boss, but the lock-on camera... Man does it get bad at times during some of the fights. The lion in particular is probably the best example of the camera just not working well at all and throwing a fit constantly. I do agree that we need a major shake-up in how Fromsoft makes the player character control if they want to keep upping the challenge and complexity of the enemies and bosses.

[@CaptainKoosh]

I agree. The traditional dodge roll, attack, dodge roll attack is getting too limited for the complexity of the bosses. Making combat more like bloodborne or sekiro would be a good idea the shake things up a bit.

[@Awesomedude124]

A bit of a copy-paste of a comment did from a similar video (Its a bit long but it covers the same topics in the video): "Cheese" tactics has a wide scope of interpretation from 'in-game items being used in a creative manner but within the game's natural parameters' to 'completely glitch out the game to instantly win or bypass the boss entirely by using game-breaking exploits'. The definition "cheese" I believe is the most valid is simply utilizing strategies and tools that are far more powerful than others so much so to the point where it may potentially cause you to change your build that you were having fun with because it was no longer an effective tool for the job for various reasons. Now bear in mind any and all strategies are viable ways to defeat the bosses minus weird bugs that are very clearly unintentional. However if you are no longer having fun using the tools that were successful previously and there are other more objectively powerful weapons and easier strategies that you didn't originally want to use but caused you to reconsider using because of the lack of fun you were having trying to overcome this boss, then most people would consider that to be "cheesing" the boss. This definition is more in-line to what actually matters: the PLAYER having fun or not. In this manner it is more dependent on the individual's taste on what they consider 'cheese' or not. Is it just them using the in-game items to win at any cost? Yes. Did they have fun while using it? It depends, but likely NO. If the players do not feel like they can engage the game in a way that they determine to be fun with their preferred tool then there is bound to be unnecessary frustration on the players part. The ultimate goal in any game is not just completing it, but having FUN while doing so. However there are many ways for players to have fun. For those who only want to clear the game using any tools available and find enjoyment in simply beating the game, 'cheesing' as I defined above does not exist because their definition of FUN differs from the ones who only want to use their chosen tools and that's OK. The gatekeeping in the community is a result of those two major ideologies clashing: The player who wants to complete the game no matter what, and the player who wants to complete the game their way. Now Soulsbourne games are meant to challenge the player, but in a fair way that takes into consideration players utilizing any given tool the player wants to use. There are tools that are objectively better than others and it is even pointed out in-game, but there are a select few tools and strategies that are so strong that it essentially trivializes any encounter, which takes away from the core of game and makes it less engaging and fun for many players. The select few tools that can trivialize any manner of bosses regardless of its design good or bad will likely be regarded as 'cheese' even if the tools are used in the intended manner because its inherent existence goes counter to the intention of the Soulsborne games as a whole. Struggling is fine and is typically the main point the developers intended for average player. Some bosses can take hours or even days for people to 'git gud' in order to defeat them. Does that mean that you should ALWAYS struggle with any encounter? Not necessarily. The game is not perfect, and that does include boss design which means that there are certain encounters that possess flaws that detract from the fairness and enjoyability of engaging with the boss. This only escalates the gatekeeping where players who utilize everything to win will have little issue and will praise the boss regardless, regurgitating the inevitable 'git gud' to anyone who has legitimate complaints about it because to them it was not hard, and on the other hand players who only want to use their chosen tools, will beat their head against a wall until they either brute force a victory, or resort to using the aforementioned "cheese" to simply get past without having enjoyed the experience and complaining about the lack of fun they had or are having. Then there's the very small but gifted group of players who find all of it easy and resort to belittling both sides for using any tools at all which further perpetuates the issue.

[@lorencalfe6446]

i got to level 500/ 20 scadu tree on ng3 and it was fun. The game was not meant to be played on low rune levels.

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

Dragons indeed are fun to fight with... when you mod bows into a fun and usable weapon lol

[@Verseanomaly]

CURSE YOU MIYAZAKI! After finally beating the DLC in NG+7 difficulty I can say it highlighted all the peaks and lows of Fromsoftware's design choices for Soulslike titles. Firstly we saw the masterpiece like worldbuilding Fromsoft Artists can do if they have time to cook, I never had spend so much time just exploring, to gather everything and still missing a lot. It showed what I would say happens if you fully follow Miyazaki's Vision. Each area and dungeon had its own piece of lore importance towards the main-game and didn't feel useless, they felt distinctly unique and left a great impact with atmosphere alone. The questlines also are greatly improved compared to older content, no longer do you meet a character and don't know where they would be next, the dialogue also didn't feel too cryptic anymore. The boss designs on themselves also is a great improvement (mostly) aside from the fact that Fromsoft hold too dearly to their old and outdated moveset which (sadly) strongly conflicts some bosses (Spoiler: looking at you Messmer and Radhan Prime) where the Moveset of Sekiro/Bloodborne could have been more fitting and a greater PoV would be less of a pain. Also most of the new weapons and spells/incantations were lacklustre due to them being rather poorly balanced and some of the new weapon-categories having too little entries, some on the other hand however (like Messmer's spear or all the perfumes) were great in their moveset, uniqueness and diversity. This DLC also suffers a lot of the typical Fromsoftware time treatment where the end feels empty and rushed, which explains a lot of the mixed reviews. I could keep going but nobody is gonna want to read a this... TLDR: the DLC is a typical Fromsoftware Soulsborne product with a lot drugs added, which improve it but also make it suffer from the formula. And to lastly conclude this rant, I agree with you an almost everything T, but having even fewer furnace golems is insane, there was supposed to be an army of them, of course this living and nearly indestructible walking warcrime would be everywhere! And not to forget in my opinion git gud doesn't mean you have to follow a single play-style, you can also get good at prepping for different scenarios, like crafting and using certain buffs to compensate for "skill" or even just summoning the right spirits/players, which is incredibly important due to the ridiculous scaling of these bosses in NG+.

[@ksw8514]

Considering how the Deflecting Hardtear simultaneously feels OP and mechanically unrefined (insufficient audio-visual feedback), I seriously doubt FS expected many people to use it. I think it was just intended as an easter egg for Sekiro fans. But ultimately I agree with your take that we've reached the limit of what can be done with classic souls combat (no wonder after 15 years of refinement). Personally, I had a much more negative experience with the bosses than you. I loved their visual design and the basic idea behind most of them. I also didn't find them too difficult (in the sense that it didn't take me too long to defeat them), but the overtuned aggression made most of them just feel obnoxious to me. I think the only two I truly enjoyed were Messmer and Bayle. Radahn was only bearable for me with the Deflecting Hardtear, because rolling to evade him felt like I was wading through mud. So yeah, I think they need to rethink their combat mechanics for future titles. Or maybe they actually should reconsider how important chasing difficulty is to the souls experience? I can only speak for myself, but I don't think making those bosses a bit less relentless would have made them less enjoyable or rewarding. In fact, I think the opposite is true. As a "Souls veteran" I think it's completely okay if ne Souls-likes aren't as challenging anymore. I'll take a mildly challenging but fun boss over Consort Radahn any day. Besides, these games are not only about difficulty to me. Exploration, lore, atmosphere, level design, visual design are just as important, and they knocked it out of the park when it comes to those aspects. The map design was sublime and the Shadow Keep is FS level design at its peak. Not to mention all the awesome new weapons and armor sets...

[@CaptainKoosh]

After all the trials and tribulations, we have learned that Pepsiman is the true god of the Elden Ring Lore. Awesome video T.

[@nacorcarmonablanco4414]

Its time for FS to step up their combatplay for future souls like games. Current system is starting to show fatigue

[@metalwolfzx]

Never change Fromsoft, never change...

[@SuleX00-ov5ip]

Criticism of every new game makes me lose my mind. People don't know how to criticize these days. If someone doesn't like something in a game they'll bash it and call it criticism.

[@3dg3Z]

all I have to say is "git gud"

[@Erick-tv8oq]

I almost completely disagree with this whole "Deflecting Hardtear turns Elden Ring into Sekiro" discourse. It makes me think that not many people remember what Sekiro actually plays like. The parry in Sekiro is practically half the combat loop. You parry to keep the enemy's posture up so you can deal mortal blows, and you whittle the enemy's health down so their posture regenerates slower. This means that parrying in Sekiro is more like dodging in Soulsborne games, you need to time it on reaction to every enemy attack so you can do significant damage to them. The back and forth in Sekiro went deeper than that since enemies could also parry you and do unblockable attacks, but that's the gist of it. The Deflecting Hardtear works completely differently from Sekiro's parry, because deflecting by itself does nothing to the enemy, you have to guard counter to actually do HP and posture damage. This means you can't just stand in front of the enemy spamming the guard button, you have to actually learn what attacks are punishable by guard counters and execute the deflect accordingly. The Deflect Hardtear is an absolutely amazing tool, but it is outclassed by rolling and positioning in many, many cases, and not at all necessary to take down the bosses in SOTE. Shadow of The Erdtree doesn't expect you to simply use the Deflecting Hardtear, it expects you to use the things unique to Elden Ring to defeat Elden Ring bosses. It's like "the community", whoever the fuck they are, completely refuses to strategize anything more intelligent than dodging and pressing R1. If you cannot find openings for just sticking your face up the boss' bum and doing a light attack, maybe, just maybe you should actually use the hundreds of consumables, ashes of war and other tools to think of ways to create those openings for yourself. A little anecdote from my first playthrough: a couple of Divine Beast Dancing Lion's attacks were very hard to punish in melee range, so I decided to stick a midrange ash of war in my weapon. I noticed my damage got way more consistent and decided to try out a new weapon type I had found, the smithscript daggers, and it was some of the most fun I've ever had with a boss. The divine lion is a really good fight plagued by camera problems in melee range, and an incredible fight with no problems at all on midrange, yet I would never have discovered that if I let myself get plagued by the mentality that leads to these absolute glue eaters in "the community" to expect every game that has a dodge roll to play exactly like DS3. Shadow of The Erdtree makes the deliberate and sustained point of expanding your ranged options from what the base game offered. It also makes a point out of giving you eight new weapon types, all unique with their strengths and weaknesses, and most of them accessible right at the starting area. Did you know the backhand blades have an incredible R2 that lunges at the enemy, but a really bad guard counter? Did you know that light greatswords can seamlessly chain R2s and R1s together, to the point where it's much easier to create optimal punishes with no time wasted for larger openings? Did you know that the Great Katanas have a running R1 into R1 double poke combo that is really good at exploiting small openings? Those are all unique characteriscs made to shine in unique situations. You're an Armored Core player, so think of it like this: imagine if people in the Armored Core community review bombed a new release because they refused to use anything other than the lightest parts for the equivalent of a dodge build to tackle the missions. Doesn't matter what kind of mission it is, doesn't matter that the game has hundreds of parts and a lot of strategic depth, they just refuse to change. Is it possible to do it with their build? Absolutely, but it's more difficult than they think it should be, and therefore it's actually bad game design. Elden Ring differentiates itself from the other Soulsborne style games by being the title that gives the player the most options and it expects the player to actually engage with the aspects that make it unique. Even if you decide to not use Spirit Ashes in any situation whatsoever, there's still a lot of depth, challenge and fun to be had. The fact that so many within "the community" refuse to read what is written in the game design equivalent of a bloody message on the wall and actively try to shape Elden Ring to be DS3 again with their "constructive feedback" is the thing that made me absolutely despise actually interacting with any of the discourse around this game. I thank all divinities above that Fromsoftware seems to see the merit in making actual RPGs like Elden Ring instead of recycling the glorified rhythm game formula (as fun as it was in Sekiro and Bloodborne) over and over again.

[@upper_case_T]

I think you got a little too hung up on the one line where I jokingly said "it's just like Sekiro"! (maybe I should have made that a little more clearer in the vid) I wasn't trying to make the argument that the crystal tear makes the combat LITERALLY like Sekiros, but rather I wanted to make it clear that I think that the general flow of the combat formula has started to shift more towards the frantic dance-like duels. Dark Souls 1 and Elden Ring play completely differently at this point. The latter has been brought way closer to what they have shown us in Sekiro. But other than that, I agree with a bunch of the things you said. People want to play Elden Ring like it's Dark Souls 1 and that's fine, but I feel like you are really missing out on so many cool things if you do.

[@stevemichael652]

When souls purists get on others for using certain methods like extreme cheese builds or cooperators, they’re doing it to the people who don’t know what they want. Someone who summons and uses guides, from the start, can’t possibly know if they’d have more fun going in blind and solo. They can’t know because they’ve never done it. So veterans try and help them before tainting a first experience, something sacred in our community. Something you can never get back. The people who have done both styles, solo blind , and summons with guides, and then decide they like the coop/ guide method better, no one is going to tell them not to.

[@upper_case_T]

I can somewhat agree with this, but the problem lies in how the "veterans" try to "help" people new to these games. I have seen many good examples of this happening, where someone gives solid advice, but there's an almost equal amount of parroting of the phrase "git gud" from others. It doesn't do anything but show that you just want to feel superior to someone.

[@elia0162]

there was only 3 good bossfight in the dlc tghat's all it's a depriment number tbh, messmer,bayle and romina

[@DiceMAD]

Look here... not every single build is for everyone *git gud* is all *usually* trigger bait instead try new builds, weapons, and ideas over *git gud* although its a solution it isn't a mentality everyone can adopt in truth every build can beat elden ring however its not the easiest or a fitted condition for the game the difference is that you aren't using all the ingredients the game has to offer its why you can respec or level up as much as you want its so you can find buffs use shields find a cool sword to get cooler shields better armor weapons for what you created you aren't forced to never use buffs certain weapons or armor in fact its encouraged one shot those bosses absolutly abuse bleed when you can buff your defense or your attack as high as it'll go that is this games difficulty slider you just need to use them Therefore in short *git gud* really just means you aren't using all of the tools at your disposal

[@KyngD469]

The rush you get from soloing a hard boss is all the argument you need as to why summoning is an ass way to win. ( Im sort of kidding) If you want to take it easy and summon, that’s totally fine. It’s your play through. But don’t pretend it’s anything like soloing a boss. It’s not gatekeeping. It’s just being honest. You posted a clip of you being elated after soloing Messmer. Where’s the clip of you being elated of summoning and beating any other boss? I’ll wait.