How Shields Work In Valheim After Hearth And Home

[@cheezbeargur]

I'm not an expert on Valheim by any means, but instead of every shield being bugged, maybe ~3 foundations is just the maximum distance an enemy can be knocked back, and additional block force is used to push larger enemies, like Brutes, Draugr, or even Trolls. It looks like you demonstrate this when you're testing the black metal shield on the Fuling. It has 60 block force, more than the 40 cap we saw for the Greyling, but the Fuling only gets pushed a foundation length or so. When you start parrying him later, he gets sent back another half a foundation, which lines up almost perfectly with the 1.5x parry bonus. If I'm doing my math right, 90 block force (60 from the shield, 30 from the parry) pushed the Fuling ~1.5 foundations. So if we could somehow get 180+ block force, he would hit the knockback cap and travel the ~3 foundations instead. All of that said, you also get knocked back, so maybe if you had your back against the wall he would go farther. In my mind, the knockback cap makes sense so players arent punished for blocking enemies with larger shields. Shooting Greylings across the map with 105 block force would be super funny, but it would suck if I wanted to hit them afterward. Knockback resistance also provides another reason for the bigger shields and parrying to actually exist. Otherwise, you could just wear lots of armor with a light shield and not care about getting swarmed. Still, I'm by no means an authority on the game. I'm actually just getting back into it with some friends with the update. If you've discovered something in testing that proves me completely wrong, feel free to roast me in another video. :)

[@Firespark81]

Good Point! Ill have to test this with creatures of size. Thanks for the input.

[@Firespark81]

Just ran a test on this and sure enough you see much different results with a Brute. Will make an update video asap.

[@Steelovsky]

@@Firespark81 I ran some tests on my own and knockback doesn't only affect enemy, but also shield wielder. The higher knockback value on your shield, the less distance your character gonna get pushed away on impact.

[@cheezbeargur]

Wow, I didn't expect a new test so quickly, let alone two! This hunger for discovery this game puts in its players is almost like magic, isn't it? Glad I could help, and I'm looking forward to the followup.

[@Firespark81]

@Cheezbeargur Things like this need testing asap so I can get a correction video out super fast before too much misinfo spreads. @- Steelovsky The amount you get knocked back seems to be based on the damage you take from what I can tell. Just tested this. You may very well be right but I can't really get conclusive enough results to prove it.

[@holgualoxford3871]

Not played recently but looking at this video I can't see how huge knockbacks are useful. Id rather keep the enemy closer to me and staggered than flung away out of melee range

[@alvaroneto6486]

Picture havinh lots of enemies or having to run. You can isolate the one you will strike to stagger or create distance to run

[@loganmaginnis6008]

I have a reason to fear the forest trolls again. Before the update the bronze buckler took all the damage, not anymore :(

[@Idle_Timer]

The part that still annoys me is that if you are in full padded with a silver shield and you forget to eat, a deathscido will one shot you through blocking. My health should not in anyway affect how much dmg mitigation I have before taking dmg

[@gladteer873]

weak limbs maybe?

[@NickGalaz]

I agree, i mean better armor=less damafe so. No life should affect there.

[@DWalter.27]

As a knife user I'm really hating the knock backs. Even the bone shield when I got to black forest still has me getting knocked back from many attacks, and when I finally block one well enough, it flings the enemies back instead. The fact that shields slow, and tower shields the worst, mean it's even harder to get hits in now. I'm going to explore other blocking options. I swear I'm better off parrying with just the knife sometimes, at least it staggers them and I can move quickly.

[@Areolainspecta]

Indeed the knockback when blocking will make melee combat a pain to actually get hits in on the enemy. Im guessing they wanted to make the special attacks more viable on certain weapons. Long range weapons like the atgeir and spear probably work best with this new blocking

[@craigslitzer4857]

@@Areolainspecta Long range weapons drain your stamina faster than a club troll can kill a newb

[@robinhu1770]

@@Areolainspecta spear has actually very short range. same as knife. i'm using it against lox and now with new blocking mechanic it is pain in the... even only meager 0.5 damage is getting through parry, the knockback from them is huge, so it takes me eternity to get back in the melee range of the spear.

[@Areolainspecta]

@@robinhu1770 Its a long range weapon because you can throw the spear. That doesnt make it very effective long range weapon to use but you can still kill from a distance

[@NbKXStorm]

My biggest problem is the huge stamina cost on swinging a lot of the weapons/jumping after the update. You really have to think about every move, and budget so that you're not wasteful

[@Siks7Ate9]

I think that that is kinda a fun way to do the combat, before you could just walk in swing your d*ck around and be done and killed everything. Now when I just started the game with leather armour I almost got killed by 2 1 star greydwarfs. Makes it a whole lot exciting for me. The combat is actually rewarding now if you do it properly instead of just swinging around your weapon.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@Siks7Ate9 less exciting and more running around waiting for stamina to regen.

[@newbiesama]

I don't like how absolute numbers don't matter now. 100 is 10 higher then 90, but it just doesn't matter. That is not how numbers work. If they want it to work like that, they should remove them and work with % instead

[@craigslitzer4857]

I love videos like this where you dig into details and peel back all the layers of an onion. Something that concerns me here is that knockback. For my (previous) play style, the whole point of a successful parry was being able to deal extra melee damage following the shield block. Now it looks like they are being pushed backed out of melee range when using the higher quality shields. That's gonna have a learning curve attached to it.

[@Areolainspecta]

Yeah you parry and stagger the enemy then u roll towards them and hit once and try to block the next attack

[@craigslitzer4857]

@@Areolainspecta That roll costs a significant amount of stamina tho and I typically only use it for defensive emergencies. Using it regularly as a routine offensive moves doesn't really pass the smell test for me. The juice might not be worth the squeeze anymore.

[@gnasty30]

Also we lose a lot of attacking time. With a successful parry I used to be able to get 3 hits on a troll before having to parry again but that won’t happen now with me having to run at him now or roll at him

[@FeniksGaming]

@@Areolainspecta you mean parry and staggered enemy roll forward and stand there because you don't have stamina for another hit

[@Areolainspecta]

@@FeniksGaming Thats why you load up on stamina foods so that doesnt happen

[@arteckjay6537]

This is the one video I've been looking for, thank you my man

[@trollchi]

Thanks FS! I'm still playing around with it on a new play through. I love making the pigs fly back with the tower shield blocks :) .

[@ferekenente]

I hate just about all the gameplay changes they made with this patch. The food changes suck. I loved the way it played before. It didnt need overhauled it just needed tuning. Gonna mod it back to the way it was.

[@Boris82]

I absolutely hate the new stamina system. I died to a wolf pack just because i wasn't able to keep my stamina up (it was 4-5 wolves at once, at the foot of a mountain i got a 'you are being hunted event, while in-between plains and mountain biome).

[@jackieenois]

they should not change what not one ever complained or asked for.

[@RW77777777]

you're not alone; if they had to take it down and rebalance the food only 24hrs after preparing for a year for the patch to drop they don't know what people want or; fans 'think they do, but they don't' you died to 4-5 wolves at once?? poor baby

[@LillyAnarkitty]

Firespark the Science Guy

[@lawrence9713]

Jo, that knockback from the towershield block is not nice at all. My mates preparing an attack will miss 100% Also, enemies should run away from the player when the enemy is too weak

[@tylerwalsh6732]

tell them to get better aim

[@lawrence9713]

@@tylerwalsh6732 dude what. no game there is works like it does in this update. it will feel unintuitive and weird, just like the bow and arrow. you dont have to reinvent the wheel

[@petrus4]

I've been using a spear with the wood tower shield against Greydwarves. I hold down the right mouse button all the time, and then time it to hit the Greydwarf when they have just started their own swing. If I time it properly, my hit goes through, while his gets blocked in the very next frame. There is a non-existent margin of error though, and I've been killed by a Brute because of misjudging it. It will take a lot of practice, but it is possible. The spear is very fast when you do it right.

[@mykeh3155]

Dodging is just as viable as blocking, just without the knockback. Shields were way too good before, being able to stagger some of the strongest attacks without being at risk, meanwhile dodging was slightly riskier a d heavily underused. They don’t want people abusing shields to win fights, fights shouldn’t be lazy, I also hated using shields for that very reason. Now we have an incentive to dodge more often.

[@kitrozon4422]

Informational video is ftw 💜

[@dirtnap9641]

its always frustrating when they mix percentages with actual values.. just have armor reduce damage by X%

[@JohnDoe-eu2vv]

Now Firespark... We're all depending on you - to build us the new ultimate lox farm ;)

[@JirocTheViking]

Great analysis as usual FS! Hopefully someone reports the knockback inconsistency.

[@Monkeypuzzle]

Thank you. I’d love to see the numbers with a two star fuhling.

[@STR00Z]

wow ive never been so early to a video, ive been playing valheim too much

[@MrTheeCanadian]

no such thing

[@HarleyAMV]

Block force probably just have a diminishing return kinda scaling. Otherwise enemies at endgame might go flying.

[@phleet3848]

i've been struggling to understand why this otherwise informative video wasn't really helping me. i think i've figured it out. you describe the stagger bar as though it remains the same, and health amount affects your defense(v stagger). it does not. if my memory serves, the wiki says players have a 30% stagger bar, which means if you take 30% of your HP as damage after blockarmor is calculated, you will stagger. this is true at 100 HP and at 25, the difference is that an enemy that you block at only 25 HP will stagger you a lot more often than 100 HP, but will still never stagger you if you have a high block armor. i'm not 100% sure i understand shields still, but as far as i understand it, 1 shield is = to a full set of its tier's heavy armor. for example, a Round Wooden shield is 6 armor, so is a full leather set. your option is to block to have 6 armor, or face-tank with your "heavy" leather armor for 6 armor. you take the same damage in either case. if you parry, your block armor becomes 9 because 6x1.5=9 any damage that gets through your armor, or block armor(or both, as is the case for even a fullset fenris plus any shield), will apply to your stagger bar. again, if you have 100 HP, a 30% stagger means you can only take up to 30 unmitigated damage before you stagger. as for block force, we're not in control of that in any meaningful way, the knockback will almost always be more than you want it to be since you're parrying in the intent to counterattack, so thanks for that valheim :| if you are calculating stagger damage after a failed block, as far as i understand that, an attack that breaks through your blockarmor will then deal damage to you, thus adding a lot more to your stagger bar. why you still generate stagger while blocking 100% damage is what confuses me. i'm still trying to wrap my head around that part

[@StewartStewart]

Is that because that info is from before the update?

[@phleet3848]

@@StewartStewart i have absolutely no idea, and reading what i wrote, i'm even more confused now than i was when i wrote the original comment

[@StewartStewart]

Even though health affects stagger limit, might it still be better to focus stamina in a shield/tanking focused build?

[@tolgahankozal7194]

when parrying maybe but since mistlands came out I found out a tower shield block combo is pretty bad comparing to a hp food jerky stamina food parry combo cuz seekers attack fast hits like a truck and staggers you pretty fast

[@peanutseltzer5724]

When you're blocking and fully armored the Fuling only does the .9 damage or whatever but it still spikes your stagger bar. Why does it spike so high even though you're taking hardly any damage?

[@squeak5242]

Because stagger has to do with ur hp

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@squeak5242 because the devs are moronic.

[@RoyceRemer]

block of 105 might be moot if there's a max knockback range. I don't know if that's a feature or not, but seems prudent so you couldn't just yeet enemies to death by blocking. Maybe ~40 block happens to be within the max knockback range.

[@msdos_kapital]

I strongly suspect there are effectively two "caps" in play here. One is the maximum knockback for an enemy, which apparently is capped at around 5m according to this video. The second cap is the block force required to reach this maximum, and depends on the enemy's stats (like HP, or attack, or some formula anyway). So maybe, for example, block force of 40 is all that's required to knock back a grayling to the maximum distance, however much higher block force might be required for e.g. trolls, draugr, wolves, etc. I notice Firespark81 only tested on graylings. Doing the same test across a few enemies might yield some more informative results.

[@ALASKANTHUNDERDRAGON]

I just don't understand why they had to mess with the stamina recovery and max stamina so much, it's completely changed combat so that you basically have to run away now. You get hit a few times with a shield, become staggered and they get a critical hit on you. I have a maxed out black metal shield and this is happening in every fight

[@TechnicallyGrey]

Man I wish I watched this before I lost my gear in the swamp

[@tyleyden8695]

Bro I used to be scared of the swamp... now the swamp is scared of me... I can't recommend the frostner enough... you will absolutely wreck anything you run into. I've got mine to level 4 now and 1 hit draugr and skeletons.. and it's great against those little goblin fuckers in the plains too. I swear by that thing.

[@mr.meanwhile]

B r u h h I died 2 times in the swamp and gave up on it until I got to know more of these game mechanics and poison resistance lol

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@tyleyden8695 use a weapon made from materials from the biome after the swamp. That makes total sense.

[@SmickyD]

Poison resistance potion and blunt weapon makes the swap a breeze

[@intrigue175175]

The Parry bonus x1.5 would explain the difference in block force difference. ie... 40x1.5=100ish?

[@slipskull452]

40*1.5 is 60. 40*2.5 is 100

[@-NateTheGreat]

Very helpful. Thanks for doing this for us.

[@hauffenschweiler]

Good find with the knock back distance.

[@rothgartheviking858]

Good explanation. I don't think these changes make sense.

[@tawnyawalker2375]

Hey FireSpark, Love your vids. Keep it up. Have you noticed that since the H&H came out dojos arent affective anymore. Its seems, unless Im doing something wrong, the you can't use boulders and trees to gain weapon skills anymore

[@DOSHIELD]

I have noticed that also. Any “combat skills” seem to need to be involved with an enemy. Punching rocks and things didn’t upgrade my unarmed at all, but punching greylings did.

[@DOSHIELD]

At one point in the past I was leveling up my unarmed by punching stone bricks…but I forgot to test to see if that did anything.

[@Siks7Ate9]

Ah I would stand next to the rock of the tree I was cutting down to get both axe and woodcutting up lol guess I don't have to do that anymore

[@whizbam4920]

The devs have on their own channel an explanation of the new shield and blocking mechanics.

[@Rustypandaa]

So what dictates the amount of stamina taken when parrying with a weapon or a shield? After the H&H update I feel like the amount of stamina that is taken is so much more than it was before

[@dianakiger3027]

yes very clear and well done

[@zargodan6082]

Have you tested dmg done on block force? Maybe if a mob hits you harder they don’t move as far?

[@dragos-lucian]

What happens when you have lower lever gear and go against a goblin? You could've fit one more minute in this video showing that. It would've been very helpful to those who might stumble upon the plains unprepared and with maybe bronze gear.

[@Areolainspecta]

Death

[@Firespark81]

Yup. You get wrecked. He will stagger you with almost every hit and destroy you.

[@dragos-lucian]

@@Firespark81 Just went and tested it myself. It's like before. You can't even move away.

[@Siks7Ate9]

@@Areolainspecta love the simple and honest answer haha

[@Chipotlespice]

Maybe knockback is capped

[@dinartesousa6495]

Hi Fire, have a quick question. Before this update it was possible to build campfires and cooking station (and few other stuff that don't require workbench like wood stack, etc) inside burial chambers? I almost sure that you couldn't but yeh. Just try it now and you can 🤔 you get 10 minutes rested buff and comfort 3

[@keyoke69]

You could always do it :)

[@ShokujiAkai]

Nice vid!

[@Lehhha]

Did weapon vs armor formula changed? Does it apply twice or it takes summ? Thanks for video

[@Firespark81]

Yes its now "Damage -> Shield resistance -> Shield block amor -> resistance -> gear armor." That is a quote from the dude filling out the wiki so I trust him.

[@Lehhha]

@@Firespark81 resistance?.. ty Do you have exact numbers? I saw: damage-armor if damage>2*armor Else Damage*damage/4/armor

[@michealnelsonauthor]

Gotta level lock up. I keep just smashing them quick, doh.

[@Recon777x]

Do all types of shields block damage from only the front or from all around or some combination depending on shield type?

[@lawrenceschroepfer4474]

Maybe a noob question, but what "stagger" bar?

[@Spootington]

The stagger bar is a bar that fills up as you take hits and depletes as you don't take hits. If it fills, the next hit dealt to the staggered target is a guaranteed critical. However, stagger doesn't last very long.

[@Jake-ok6ge]

Do a video on knives they are so fun now

[@craigslitzer4857]

They attack just barely faster than they did before. Apart from that, I haven't noticed any difference

[@sirhunter7623]

Did I understand this right that how well you are able to parry depends on your max health now?

[@Firespark81]

Ummm no. Max health only effects your stagger bar thats it. That red bar that fills up next you to when you get hit.

[@lee98210]

which also mean the parry force is the block armor x the parry bonus. block armor 90 parry bonus 1.5x damage reduction of 135 HP

[@sirhunter7623]

Ok tyvm

[@thecommiehunter1149]

They made it now so when you stagger enemies you too take damage

[@Firespark81]

Yes even if you parry you can still take damage.

[@thecommiehunter1149]

@@Firespark81 but weird they put that in there

[@thecommiehunter1149]

@@Firespark81 I don't get it what's the point in using a shield if you're still gonna take damage?

[@Neelo5000]

@@thecommiehunter1149 Previously if you couldn't absorb the damage the parry would fail. Now the parry always succeeds, but the draw back is that you still take some of the damage. The upshot of this is that you can now stagger more powerful enemies.

[@thecommiehunter1149]

@@Neelo5000 Yeah but with most of the enemies I can't stagger without me being staggered and that gives me no time to fight about its dumb shields are supposed to prevent you from taking damage until your stamina runs dry otherwise what's the point with putting shields in the game

[@joonatanojala4756]

I liked hearth and home update, but this shield thing doesn't make any sense. I died to a troll 2 times with bronze gear😂

[@vladimirartemenko6808]

With my friends, we're playing only melee weapons challenge (I play a knife), there is a troll with a score of 0:7 (he's winning) but I'll get this guy soon :)

[@joonatanojala4756]

@@vladimirartemenko6808 Lmao

[@fledglingbodhisatva4821]

Looks like any block force above 40 is ignored.

[@Firespark81]

Possible.

[@richgoldendoor4240]

I personally don't like the combat changes made. I don't know all the changes they've made exactly, but even with a good amount of stamina, my stamina feels like it gets a lot less done, and bows are next to useless on a skeleton. I had a bunch of skeletons randomly wanting to pile on my roof during a skeleton surprise, and I'm talking like at least 9, and more trying to get up there, and since a fully draugr's fang didn't one shot them (I only had needle arrows on me), they were able to bust through my roof and kill my no star house wolf inside that I've had for like 150 in game days. My stamina in the whole situation felt nonexistent (food used was bread, eyescream, and lox pie), and idk if it was just me but the bow feels slower too. Well thanks to the changes making me feel like I can no longer handle everything myself due to stamina shortage, I had the ambition to breed an army of 2 star wolves, and build better walls. Dunno why I wasn't their main target even when I got on the roof, but it seems they need to fix AI priorities.

[@michaelgaber3600]

Normally I understand what you're saying, but you didn't really say what you were trying to explain, you just jumped into it. Then at the end of your video you were like "hope I explained that well". Bruh, explained what? I like your videos, but can you explain what you're trying to explain?

[@Firespark81]

Not sure how to make any part of this video any more clearer than I already have. Maybe watch it again?

[@johnnysworthout1640]

@@Firespark81 LOL. great video. Not sure what the poor guy missed. I love these well thought out informational videos.

[@galkanftw]

Oh yes and in an interview earlier this year they stated 4 major updates "this year"and more on ships,i don't see that happening but what i do expect moving forward is just more fiddling with numbers because it is something easy for one guy to do with little to no added code needed."Tower Shields"does anyone use tower shields in game?

[@Spootington]

They posted some time back that they couldn't fulfill that.

[@kristianhawk]

lol, guess you're done playing since you've started deconstructing the the details

[@Firespark81]

This needed to be done asap because it was a massive change Iron Gate should have explained in detail. People are raging because they do not understand why they are taking damage when they are blocking.

[@FeniksGaming]

@@Firespark81 change makes very little sense. HP heave character runs out of stamina am quickly gets staggered and dies because blocking uses stamina. Stamina heavy character gets staggered in 2 hits because his stagger meter is so small. What should happen is this: Blocking doesn't use stamina at all but relies on staggered meter. Parrying uses stamina but doesn't increase staggered. It would make stamina character parry and play fast, and hp character be walking tanks. The way it is both players are screwed

[@ewox250]

spoczko

[@JesseJayReviews]

Wrong. I fought a lox with low health high stam food and was getting hit for 50 thru my shield. Changed my food to high health and I was taking 0.5 hits thru the shield.

[@Firespark81]

Dude I just show you in the video it does not matter. I love when I show proof and people are still like wrong. It's right there lmao.

[@JesseJayReviews]

@@Firespark81 You only tested it on a grayling, and I think that matters, considering it may be percentage based. The larger the base number, the greater and more clear the effect/change is.

[@JesseJayReviews]

Just because you test something with certain variables, does not mean someone else cannot test with different variables, showing a different result. It simply means more in depth and broad testing is necessary.

[@Firespark81]

I love how people just assume things. I tested it with lots of things I just use the greyling as an example. You do realize when you get staggered you take more damage just like the the monsters do. So the lox hits you staggers you and you take a crit hit and its like you did not even block. When you eat more food it can't fill your stagger bar so you do not get staggered and do not take a crit hit. Test it you'll see it for yourself.

[@Firespark81]

Also the reason I show as much in my videos as I do is specifically so people can check my work. So while I'm not saying don't do your own testing because you should. I'm just saying you are reading the data wrong.

[@jackieenois]

Everything they changed is just bad, I've started a new world, it is my 4th playthrough, played for an hour and the game just feels really bad and too punishing, tedious and unfun.

[@vilereddfalcon997]

Completely agree! On my 3rd playthrough and it doesn’t feel fun

[@Spootington]

Feels just fine to me.

[@Siks7Ate9]

@@Spootington same here it feels exciting to get absolutely wrecked by 2 1 star greydwarfs that appear out of nowhere in your leather armour. Before those did absolutely nothing now it's allot more dangerous I like it. Granted I have not killed first boss yet, let alone gone to swap and get 1shot by a draugr 2 star archer like before lol

[@Siks7Ate9]

Killed first boss in lvl 2 leather armour was super easy

[@Spootington]

@@Siks7Ate9 Though they allow it, I think they intend for you to do it in lv1 rag armour and stone weapons. Good job, though ^^v

[@jaytee3557]

I've changed my opinion of this game after the update, it's officially my least favorite game ever.

[@jugadorbonyfacio]

Okay so no shields

[@WickedJawa]

Three advertisements before the video starts ....greedy....done

[@jrsimeon02]

Diminishing returns in a mmorpg?whose genius idea was that?

[@envy1831]

How is valheim a mmorpg

[@jrsimeon02]

@@envy1831 role as a viking, on a server with lots of players

[@envy1831]

@@jrsimeon02 it's not really an MMO tho, it's more like a coop survival

[@jrsimeon02]

@@envy1831 sure, ok, I concede it's like a survivor coop