How Star Vs the Forces of Evil Fell From Grace

[@BlueOrder]

I used to put Star Vs. the Forces of Evil on a very high pedestal. After all, it was the show that became my # 1 favorite _within its first season._ But throughout Season 3 and Season 4, I noticed a decline in its writing quality. Plot points were dropped or ignored, huge things would come out of seemingly nowhere, and the story seemed become more and more neglected by the writers (who seemed to have favored shipping-drama more). In this video, I go through what exactly made this show fantastic, and how it declined in quality. *_[TABLE OF CONTENTS]_* (Credit to Headband Guy / Blier for getting the timestamps) 00:00 - Introduction *[POSITIVE REVIEW]* 00:55 - Overarching Story/Plot 03:31 - _Side Note: Bon Bon the Birthday Clown_ 05:23 - Antagonist/Toffee 08:39 - Continuity 11:20 - Characters 14:43 - Shipping 15:42 - _Shipping: Jarco_ 17:42 - _Shipping: Starco_ 18:08 - _Side Note: Blood Moon Disqualifier_ 19:18 - Positive Overview *[NEGATIVE REVIEW]* 19:45 - Seasonal Story/Plot 28:47 - Antagonists 31:59 - _Antagonists - Meteora Butterfly_ 33:08 - _Antagonists - Mina Loveberry_ 34:05 - _Antagonists - Moon Butterfly_ 37:34 - Continuity 2 56:27 - _Side Note: Marco's Cheekmarks (and cheekmarks in general)_ 57:50 - _Side Note: Beating Around the Bush_ 58:55 - _Side Note: The Magic Book of Spells_ 1:00:50 - _Side Note: Eclipsa's "Darkest Spell"_ 1:01:32 - Characters 2 1:04:17 - _Side Note: Marco and Star become terrible people_ 1:10:10 - Shipping 2 1:10:30 - _Shipping 2: Jarco_ 1:14:08 - _Shipping 2: Tomstar_ 1:16:24 - _Shipping 2: Kellco_ 1:18:46 - _Shipping 2: Starco_ 1:23:53 - _Side Note: Teenagers are Dumb_ 1:27:30 - Post Wendy Era 1:27:50 - _Post Wendy Era: Doop Doop/Britta's Tacos_ 1:30:39 - _Post Wendy Era - Beach Day/Gone Baby Gone_ 1:32:23 - _Post Wendy Era - Sad Teen Hotline/Jannanigans_ 1:33:34 - _Post Wendy Era - Mama Star/Read Aim Fire_ 1:35:11 - _Post Wendy Era - The Right Way/Here to Help_ 1:39:31 - _Post Wendy Era - Pizza Party/The Tavern At The End Of The Multiverse_ 1:43:11 - _Post Wendy Era - Cleaved_ 1:53:10 - Post Finale Disaster 1:58:19 - What Went Wrong 2:01:45 - The Potential 2:04:15 - _The Potential: 1. Toffee's Death_ 2:05:03 - _The Potential: 2. Toffee's Backstory/motives_ 2:05:49 - _The Potential: 3. Little to No Loose Ends_ 2:07:23 - _The Potential: 4. Good Old Fashioned Montage_ 2:08:01 - _The Potential: 5. Shipping_ 2:08:44 - _The Potential: Shipping - Ending A. Jarco_ 2:09:17 - _The Potential: Shipping - Ending B. Starco_ 2:10:38 - Ending *_Credits:_* Antagonist 1 - TBlofeld Shipping 1 - Matthew Antagonist 2 - Tblofeld - Moon section (More Soup) - Edited by Matthew Continuity 2 - Edited by Headband Guy Characters 2 - Rainbow - Tom section (Rainbow) - Eclipsa/Globgor Section (Rainbow) - Edited by Matthew Shipping 2 - Helped by Matthew - Star was a terrible girlfriend (World of Meli) - Star selfish genocide (sloppyjeaux) - Edited by Matthew Post Wendy Era - Edited by Headband Guy The Potential - Edited by Headband Guy And I just want to give another megalodon thank you to Headband Guy (Blier) and Matthew for editing/adding the visuals to the large majority of this video. Seriously, this video would not be releasing ANYWHERE near today if they had not helped out. Matthew / Matthematical Reactions - kzbin.info/door/NSbDnJWMqXvvRNDkRferyg Blier / Headband Guy - kzbin.info/door/fQ8B4dctpWacphUt6k3hyQ *TBlofeld's Rewrite:* archiveofourown.org/works/19019023?view_full_work=true *_Music:_* Intro - Mark Sparling - Day 10 Overarching Story 1 - Louie Zong - The Lost Library - Potsu - Take me there Antagonist / Toffee 1 - Brian H Kim - Toffee Vs Marco - Louie Zong - Floating Fortress Continuity 1 - Aimless - yours truly - Louie Zong - The Town Library Characters 1 - Pandrezz - Takin’ You For a Ride - Louie Zong - The Jazz Club Shipping 1 - Potsu + Land - breakfast - Louie Zong - on the move Title + Seasonal Story (2) - Jinsang - Island - Louie Zong - backpack heavy, mind light - Louie Zong - half asleep - Kudasai - dream of her Antagonist 2 - Potsu - gogo - Cloudchord - Sunlit - Louie Zong - Orion - Crinkles - chronos Continuity 2 - Potsu - food court - Ibrahim - Bullet Train Fantasy - Potsu - have you heard - Louie Zong - Florida - Louie Zong - images - Louie Zong - racing theme - Louie Zong - struttin’ - Idealism - phosphenes - Louie Zong - here he comes - Louie Zong - Charlie brown’s day off Characters 2 - Potsu - I’m in space - Potsu - fall apart - Louie Zong - curly Shipping 2 - Brian H Kim - I Don’t Wanna Know - Potsu - Turtleneck - Louie Zong - steaks - Louie Zong - comforter - Crinkles - Gravity - Potsu - lovesick - Louie Zong - Allison - Potsu - Moments Notice - Louie Zong - Gretchen - Crinkles - Hydrangea - Mark Sparling - Mystery Post Wendy Era - 90s Flav - call me - The Deli - Vibes - Louie Zong - rain - Leaf Beach - Keef - The Deli - Flowers - Potsu - bird Post-Finale Disaster - Aso - Ultra Violet What Went Wrong - Mark Sparling - Day 10 - Crinkles - Countess The Potential - Kudasai - the girl I haven’t met - Louie Zong - ice pond - Louie Zong - The Big Wave - The Deli - Sleepy Vibes - Louie Zong - Matter over Mind - The Deli - Water Ending - Louie Zong - End of the Show - Dunderpatrullen - Face Against The Gardin *[Fair Use Disclaimer]* Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. This is a direct content review/criticism of the original show, this directly falls under Fair Use Law. I am not claiming that I own the material shown in any way, this is simply a review.

[@TrevorianTheTemplar]

gg

[@no_name4415]

You put a lot of work into this, props dude

[@peachie5000]

Blue Order b

[@malcolmw121]

Those credits are impressive, and I haven't even started the video yet. But it's amazing to see such a huge project come to fruition, and furthermore it'll be great to see you get back into the swing of things with all the fun stuff that's happened while you were busy with this! I'm so glad to see this, both for what it is and what it heralds. Just remember to not push yourself, if you need a break after this huge project then go for it. E>

[@AcordHachi]

I'm just going to leave these here for you to react when you want: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpTNk6mLfrRgfpo kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpjPe2l-md53opY kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHu1kmZ5bquSe7s kzbin.info/www/bejne/amPEZ616abNgd68 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqfUiWBmlpx1l8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpy9Z2ikeriapZo And I want to suggest watching Infinity train after you finish Ok KO (there are only 10 episodes of 11 min) AND after that, I strongly recommend Mao Mao: heroes of pure heart as a replacement (also 11 min episodes). These are from Cartoon Network.

[@MCPhatman]

I hated how Star just commited genocide for the ending and no one bats an eye.

[@s4juno693]

Hey but at least have Starco.

[@chickenstripz1961]

@@s4juno693 *cough*

[@lfamvs5520]

Star was basically Hitler in the final

[@moshh8680]

@@s4juno693 *cough cough*

[@princessthyemis]

wtf?! yeah I agree with you!

[@Garrettcube]

Moral of the story: always consider your priorities when making a show. Don’t change shit on a whim just to accommodate a ship and throw out everything your story built up to.

[@carlacarrero4975]

the real moral of this story is dont make love triangles in plot driven shows

[@meccquest13]

Or plan out your show so you can work in and resolve all this romance drama without it feeling rushed or forced.

[@icecreamhero2375]

The show started out strightforward then got convoluted.

[@spyro2002]

@@carlacarrero4975 the moral is just don't make love pendagons. Cause that my friend was far from just a triangle

[@lfamvs5520]

Things I always keep in mind and disasters like SVTFOE only confirm I’m doing it right with my story👍 Also, jokes on you, my show doesn’t even have ships ;)

[@fromation9432]

Daron based Tom off of all of her ex boyfriends. Yet he ends up being one of the most likable characters in the show...😅

[@craigpeoples9883]

Yeah wouldn't have expected that 😅

[@Midnight_May474]

@liveslex5581 Eren deadass said he hated her, bro. And even if he didn't really mean it, he's gonna die soon anyway. I HIGHLY doubt they will be together at the end of season 4.

[@Midnight_May474]

@@liveslex5581 But they didn't create aot though. Hajime Isayama did. He's the author what he says goes

[@Mexicanninja68]

Maybe she was the Problem😉

[@ksnndnfr6101]

Must've had some pretty awesome exes

[@charismaticRogue]

its genuinely hilarious to me that star and marco were literally based off nefcy and her husband and they ended up with the WORST writing, meanwhile tom is "based off all of nefcy's exes" and he got the most ACTUAL character development. how does that happen? how does a SPITE character you made end up better off than all your other characters?

[@charismaticRogue]

@@ThisIsAshley41 exactly. goes to show in writing you shouldnt just *inject* your personal experiences into a characters existence and expect your viewers to completely agree with you, regardless of how much the audience becomes endeared to them. i doubt nefcy was trying to make tom "irredeemable" since he was obviously a chill guy by the end of the show, but its clear what her intentions with his role in the show was, and it was unimpressive to say the least :/ edit: apparently person above just kinda... assumed a bunch of things and was disgreeing with me bc of it. weird lmao

[@ducksick9973]

it's like how Chloé from Miraculous was from the writer's past bully and she got the best redemption arc and character in the entire show

[@fighter0056]

Ok this is funny

[@slevinchannel7589]

Great-but-flawed = Perfect Candidate for a Reboot.

[@1010otep]

really says something about the person doesn't it

[@audwette2572]

I just can't get over how they turned Glossaryck, one of the best characters and the most powerful magic user of all time into a fucking dog

[@megamindvs2514]

🤣

[@megamindvs2514]

Oh fudge yea.

[@phantomgamer3898]

Worst part is they didn't even have a good reason to do that, they just did it because why not. "Warning them about Globgor" was a really poor excuse to justify that :/

[@millerkarageanes1562]

@@phantomgamer3898 Jeffery Tambor his voice actor was accused of sexual harassment and that’s the reason why they had him say that. So that wasn’t really their fault

[@phantomgamer3898]

@@millerkarageanes1562 Huh... I didn't know that. I still think maybe they could've done something better with Glossaryck in the meantime (maybe bring him back to life after they replaced his VA), but at least now I know they were looking for a solution to that problem. Thanks for telling me

[@ambiverted6342]

Star be like: 🤗 teehee I just committed mass murder against all dimensions 🤗

[@KingkyLeor]

she really thanos snapped more than 50% of beings but she was just thinking "smoosh smush, bag guy no mo, got bf back"

[@angelchavez4245]

This comment just made my day😂😂

[@pidgeonweeb4493]

She takes nothing serious, so when it comes to one of the more important parts of a story Character Development, it shows nothing. She has no guilt, and barely any punishments for her actions.

[@klank218]

teenagers are dumb so that doesn't matter

[@katie15732]

@Klank Lol

[@CorvusnTel]

This shows biggest crime was to introduce the best, most attractive, most intelligent villain ever and completely shoot him in the foot.

[@lorettabes4553]

Yes ;_;

[@anniebannanielosttheirnanny]

Right?! I would have loved to see more and have that experience for a lot longer. He seemed like such a threat but after that, everything felt like a joke. He should have been an endgame villain instead of Mina.

[@yellowpig1026]

i haven't finished KO yet so don't spoil me. but did venomous get better treatment?

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

*hand

[@db20193]

It was the finger actually 😉

[@austinjohnsen4430]

Something I don’t think gets talked about enough is the fact that Marco thought that he seemingly spent 16 years away from his loved ones chasing after a demon girl and didn’t seem to be all that worked up about it. Apparently we’re to believe that he never once thought about the emotional trauma that for all he knew his sudden disappearance may have caused everyone.

[@ТагирЛюбительчая]

И он променял отношения с этой девушкой , на какую то глупую принцессу , которая выдумала несуществующее проблемы

[@ТагирЛюбительчая]

translation of my words: And he exchanged his relationship with this girl for some stupid princess who invented a non-existent problem

[@galten7361]

The biggest impact was Hekapoo being in Marco's friend circle with him remembering le voice.

[@charcole92810]

Lets not also forget that on Earth it equated to 16.2 minutes, I think. edit: nvm it was actuslly only 8 minutes💀

[@theheartsystem6206]

The thing that gets to me about this is that he could spend 16 years alone doing all that and was just fine with not seeing Star. But the finale, nah. They can't stand to be apart for even a little while. So much so that they risk their lives and millions of others so they can possibly be together.

[@catalyst_8759]

Don’t forget, Star forgot to greet Marco happy birthday during lava lake because she was busy smooching Tom.

[@artisticstuff3764]

Catalyst _ Omg yes thank you. And the fact that Marco went to such great lengths to create an amazing birthday for her - and she was so ungrateful for it. I honestly don’t know how Marco or Tom were able to put up with her rudeness in the first place.

[@craigpeoples9883]

@@artisticstuff3764Even if Marco's Character went down hill he still had his moments and his character regression was caused by the blood moon mainly will his character wasn't the best towards the end he was a better character than Star in my opinion

[@jlwiseman98]

Dont forget she also never apologized once for the kiss situation with Marco to Tom, not even for not telling him either.

[@abnormalnox]

@@jlwiseman98 VERY true. And she had the audacity to get mad cause HE knew about it and didnt tell her. Marco is a true bro for telling him that too. She had no right to pull that shit. In all honesty Tom dodged a bullet when he broke up with Star. Sure he was controlling and had anger issues in the beginning but he became a better person in the end. Star was actually very abusive herself (you can see it with marco) and just overall not as good a person the show makes her out to be.

[@jlwiseman98]

@@abnormalnox though I also noticed neither Marco or Star ever gave Tom an apology for the situation. Marco tells him, he never apologizes onscreen though. Like it really bothers me we had to watch Tom get treated like garbage for so long by Star, and neither character gives him a single apology for it, as if they aren't sorry or did nothing wrong. Like it REALLY bothers me, cause Tom says sorry all the time when he screws up, but nah he got no apology for all the bad stuff they do to him. Wth

[@nourmallysalty]

Toffee’s back was hurting from carrying the show, that’s why Daron decided to kill him off

[@petscopkid]

Now that I think about it he doesn’t really have much screentime in the show, yet he’s one of the best characters

[@guaxinimminixuang1279]

TKO's back is hurting from carrying OK K.O too, but Ian don't killed him off

[@millerkarageanes1562]

@@petscopkid Yeah his lack of screentime enhances his presence and is makes him so threatening

[@ynln327]

Toffee was too seggsy and the writers couldn’t handle it🙄✋‼️

[@jarnevandepoll254]

It isnt cruelty, its mercy

[@jlwiseman98]

Daron: " teens are dumb so it's ok for them to act that way!" Tom: *is a teenager who grows and learns from his mistakes, constantly apologizes, and improves for him and the people he cares about and is arguably the best character in the show* The show didn't excuse Tom's bad actions because "hes a dumb teenager ", he had growth and learned and became so mature and selfless. What's Star and Marco's excuse for treating everyone like garbage and not learning to be better?

[@jellyfish0311]

"Because they are protagonists". Lazy writing treats them as being always right

[@Ando1428]

@Acid Wizard my favorite part was when eclipsa hit them with that beam. Marco am i rediculous? I am rediculous and have bad taste in friends.

[@adampkalb]

Daron Nefcy, did you take stupid pills this morning when you said that? Your Star Fan 13 character totally feels betrayed by Cleaved. November 12, 2019, 10:54pm

[@OneDude7745]

Heck, it's ironic how a literal DEMON became the most well-developed and most improved characters while the humans became nothing but degenerates!

[@waluigi3515]

funny how Daron said Tom is based off of every single one of her "evil demon ex boyfriends" and he is one of the most mature characters in the show that learns from his mistakes and grows as a person. Now I'm not gonna act like I know what went on between Daron and her exs, but how is it that one of the most responsible and mature characters in the show was based off of her terrible experiences with boys. And seeing all of Daron's social media behavior it really raises questions on what went down and if she was even a good girlfriend.

[@lentao81]

Toffee knowing about the Whispering Spell could have so easily been said to be because Eclipsa told him, since the two dated and all. It'd at least be more believable than Toffee having known it through a random book.

[@MutatedPercent]

To think they creators actually expected us to believe that...the whispering spell is shown to be one of the most important spells in the series...and apparently it's just in some easy to find book

[@FantasticFawnleap]

Dude ew no!

[@galten7361]

I don't know what the point of saying Toffee dated Eclipsa was to begin with unless it's just supposed to be some "lol Eclipsa chases around Monsters."

[@Parasolhyena]

@@FantasticFawnleap Why are you saying ew to them? They just stating that this is cannon. No one likes it but it's written in the book the ties itself so deeply with the show.

[@astralhorrorshow]

well, i think the historian thing and the dating eclipsa thing could've been pulled off well if they actually explored toffee's past. he wasn't and average historian, he was a really, really active one. it would've been so easy for them to make it so he was just dating eclipsa to get butterfly information from her, since it's canon that he's despised mewmans for a long time. it could've been like this: toffee, during his historian years (either before or after his days as a general) was getting frusterated because he had heard of a powerful spell that all queens taught their daughters, but he couldn't find any information on it because it was kept between the butterfly family. then, eclipsa comes along, and toffee has an idea. he can get the spell out of her. so they start dating, and he casually brings up that he's studying the butterfly family for his historian duties or something, and he could tell eclipsa that he's heard of a spell that all queens are taught by their mothers, and he casually laments about not knowing it and how it would bring him satisfaction to know, even if he wouldn't tell anyone. eclipsa is apprehensive with herself at first, but seeing as she really liked toffee (maybe it was her attempt at an actual serious relationship) she tells him the spell. after they break up, toffee already has all the information he needs. i just made that all up in five minutes. the star team was working on season 3 and 4 the time that s2 was airing. it was such an easy fix, it boggles my mind.

[@aapadd]

"people who make reaction videos don't put efort into anything" me, an intelectual:

[@letmekillmyself5530]

Exactly I hate when ppl say that

[@UnorthodoxIndividual]

Yeah, that's honestly an unfair statement. The FlamingShark for instance is easily one of my favorite creators to watch, ESPECIALLY his Adventure Time videos, it's rare to see someone have such a thorough understanding of a show and it's key elements and progression. I feel like certain reactors are as solace and devoid of substance or care as people make them out to be, but not all of them are like that.

[@user-gp5yz5yz4x]

Dude I could turn this video in as my final's, this is a fullborn essay

[@zephyrgust4300]

Except...this isn't a reaction. It's a review. He didn't just sit and watch the show for two hours in this video, he did that beforehand and that pushed him to make this review. The review is what had actual effort put into it. Anyone can sit down and react to a video. Sorry to burst your "intelectual" bubble. Also, like sai said...you spelled that wrong.

[@sliceofham3737]

Slash have you seen how much he edits his reactions? He puts effort into them and try’s to add to them. I’d say blue order’s reactions are like 1/2 reaction 1/2 ytp

[@kuroimadoshi5906]

"the writers had managed to piss off every single group except starco" that's not true. I really want starco to happen, but with this kind of pacing and halfass relationship they do makes me feels NOTHING. I'm so upset about it even now

[@carlacarrero4975]

Even a shipping war fan comic managed to be better than the actual show its based on

[@jellyfish0311]

Fellow upset starco here

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

So actually, the writers had managed to piss off EVERYONE, _except_ the Starco fans that _only_ care about Starco and nothing else. You know, the ones that don't even mind or care about the story so long Starco is canon, because Starco is Jesus or something. I'm an atheist.

[@edwincruz3126]

I'm a starco shipper too, and boy was I blinded by my modern reaction to the confirmation. They could have done it so better if they want it to be Canon. Make it feel satisfying and impactful after 4 years of the teasing, but instead of doing that they killed of Tomstar out of nowhere and two episodes later make starco Canon. Why didn't they just make a proper build up and timing. I understand that they were lucky for having a fourth season and knew it was the last but that's not an excuse to say " Screw it, let's rush the plot, sacrifice a few ships that had build up, and make it about racism and starco fan service up until the finale where we made a concept that had no build up throughout the show about destroying magic and make a 'sweet and happy' starco ending. This show could've done better even with 4 seasons yet they still fucked it up. Thanks Daron for making a bad writing to an already good show.

[@eatatjoes6751]

That's also not true. I shipped Starco at the beginning when they weren't insufferable weenies, but then as the show dragged on into the third season and yanked shit out of its ass with The -Plot Device- Blood Moon and turned Marco into an obsessive penis over Star and Star into a possessively abusive bitch that shrank the cast and kills plot development to accomodate her own *wuv* for him, I was freaking done and shipped Kellco.

[@tinkerknight1754]

The show went from promising to a 14 yo teenager fanfic. But hey, at least Tom was in it

[@crematedfelony]

I've seen better fanfics written by 12 year olds.... it's sad to see how much they wrecked this (do some adult writers just forget how writing actually works??)

[@incognitobread2678]

@@crematedfelony ikr

[@niveditasrinivasan7070]

too little too late

[@dontburstmybubble686]

Tom is everything like??? Star literally never changes. She just got progressively more annoying because “I literally don’t know anything about this new culture so I’m sorry if I act dumb” hits way different than “I have been to earth, I have been to mewni, yet now I cheat on my boyfriend and potentially murder millions of magical creatures because it feels right”. Edit: I forgot to add why I stan Tom sooo Tom? He was willing to go through therapy, he was willing to go through his equivalent of electric shock therapy, and like at first it was for Star so yeah weak but then it was just for him and he won her back on accident???? This is the type of arc I love and he’s also like a nice anger demon in anger management??? That’s so simple yet so creative. And like he’s powerful but he never feels powerful because none of his battles are solved by fire. He is literally textbook good character writing!

[@TheSwanqueenAndTheEldricth]

You spoke the truth there

[@bumblebeeproductions1673]

Imagine how simple the ‘cheekmark plothole’ could have been resolved if they just said: Festivia and Meteora were half sisters but Meteora was sent away because of being half monster while Festivia was kept because she was human There. That simple, and it keeps the ‘magic cheekmarks’ are part of the Butterfly family and it will make Star an actual Butterfly but Meteora would still exist

[@eatatjoes6751]

Festivia/Celena is also related to Marco somehow, thus explaining his stupid cheekmark shit.

[@ndawn90]

Exactly, do an Aquaman. Eclipsa had her firstborn (Meteora) with her true love, Globgor, then she's forced to marry and have an actual heir with the Mewman king. Heck, they could have even made it so Festivia was like Eclipsa's niece or something, and was given the throne due to anti-monster bias. Either way, at least Star is still actually related to Eclipsa and that explains why she spent so much time helping her.

[@cosmiccovegalaxy164]

@@ndawn90 fr they couldve made festivia JUSHTIN'S daughter and eclipsa's niece therefore getting rid of the cheekmark plothole

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

@@eatatjoes6751 Marco's great grandfather was apart of the royal family and he somehow went to earth and got stuck there. Fixed.

[@galten7361]

I think that Star (and Moon) being an illegitimate monarch is an interesting enough idea if they actually did more with it than just making an excuse for Eclipsa to take the throne without a fight. It's still silly they figured to make Star descend from a peasant.

[@Skona99]

This video has better continuity than the series; You can see the light in the window behind him go from day to night. Mad lad talked about a cartoon the whole day.

[@zathary564]

Wow i didnt even notice that haha Props to the man absolute madlad

[@caricreate2208]

sonicpivot2476 and the ending of it could have been with that song “ready as Ill ever be” - the svtfoe version. That would have been so epic

[@skyguy8786]

this is the sheer definition of chad

[@j0bie]

Cari Create omg that would actually be really cool

[@MatthematicalReactions]

Fun fact, over 7 hours of recorded footage for this video

[@Protendo]

Also, as a sidenote, Star going up to Marco and saying, “Okay, can we kiss?” literal days after getting out of a nearly year long serious relationship was one of the most uncomfortable scenes in the show.

[@lorettabes4553]

That whole scene was awkward! I was cringing the entire time. Who would want to hook up after poking/slapping pigs' butts? That isn't romantic and it was so forced. (cries)

[@DeathKitta]

Tomstar was shown to be a real serious relationship so suddenly starco moments were very off putting(

[@overwhelmingtactician3011]

That's because you know nothing about love

[@liquoriceprose163]

DeathKitta Honestly they just shouldn't have don't Starco and that point and just have no one in a relationship.

[@gdashmaster7995]

Well, it was still kinda cute, but not as good as it could be. The problem is the season 4 itself was made in rush, so they couldn’t manage to split up Tom and Star properly, which kinda ruined the long-awaited(for somebody) scene. But I still love the show (without paying attention to the ending)

[@yvriii]

Honestly, Tom was the best and most realistic character in the show. He was the only character that showed any development throughout the entire 4 seasons.

[@chartreusephoenix6581]

Too true

[@coldgal8476]

I'd say eclipsa fits into that but to a slightly lesser extent

[@jturner2577]

@@coldgal8476 She does but she only psychially appears in 2 Seasons.

[@coldgal8476]

J Turner yeah I know that's why I said lesser

[@smart.but.stupid]

He's great. But it could've been done better. They could've redeemed him earlier and make him much more helpful since like, season 2.

[@magicdoll9914]

It really was shocking to me just how indifferent the characters became to death, especially at the end. Star being like "lol I guess we'll never know!" when she's asked what happened to the Magical High Commission after magic is destroyed left a bad taste in my mouth.

[@thunder-uy5zz]

facts like what happened to hekapoo

[@thunder-uy5zz]

We didn't even see her after the magic was destroyed

[@sanscoolson5125]

And I am sad that Rhombulus was character assassinated (since from the beginning he showed regret for his crime and potentially get a redemption arc)

[@galten7361]

@@thunder-uy5zz Yeah since she's a fan favorite waifu unlike the other two. We don't see her just being a candle or whatever since she was written as actually sympathetic.

[@davifernandopereiraborges5168]

Ever stopped to think the people wich visit the arcade dimension will probably die from starvation after being stuck there for all eternity?

[@alan7723]

Let’s be honest. Killing off Toffee so quick was one of the worst decisions in any Disney show. He truly was my favorite Disney villain, rivaling others like Bill Cipher.

[@devin3944]

At the time toffee was defeated, I didn't mind it at all because I thought the show was hinting that he would come back. Also since it seemed too easy to beat him so swiftly. After finishing the show, I can also say that it was a horrible decision to get rid of him that way

[@DeathofInk]

I was expecting him to be just like Bill. A villain who continues to have a strong influence for the whole show with explored ties to the lore.

[@captainclod5269]

When I took a break from SVTFOE, I got hyped for the finale and expected Toffee to be back. My friend told me the villain is Mina so I didn't even f*cking watch it

[@lucasmartinez5703]

Killing him off was fine. Not bringing him back after getting hints that he would return was where they dropped the ball. That's writing 101 right there. If you're setting up expectations, you have to deliver on them and Nefcy just didn't do that here.

[@SunGodNika-bi2jr]

they could have at least gave Toffee an epic showdown between him and Star

[@coricognitions]

this is why Gravity Falls rules all. It kept the story for the entire show and didn't stop at all for stupid forced shipping episodes.

[@Noobmasterdp]

Damn right. People were actually careful with it. It's a shame SVTFOE had so much more potential than it was given.

[@Julayla]

And it's also why Ducktales never tackles on shippings ever (aside from a one off gag of Dewey's dream love interest he has no interest on, but that's played for laughs).

[@estebancruz5578]

Well no, the were a lot a problem in gravity fall

[@midnightgreengaming3188]

Mabel would get a new ship every two episodes though.

[@coricognitions]

@@midnightgreengaming3188 but it didn't forget the plot entirely to focus on the ships

[@Epsilon-18]

I like how Tom just T-Poses into the S3 Intro like an absolute legend.

[@AmongusBalls65]

He is based

[@redd9818]

Asserting his dominance as the one best character.

[@sabermations4765]

Still love how most ships of this show is just Marco x anybody in existence

[@thee_rarest7201]

Marco x Lebron James

[@QuiGonJohn1999]

Marco x ocraM

[@marioluigi3122]

Heck, as a joke you could ship Marco and Lincoln Loud together.

[@pianoman5259]

Marco x Naysaya

[@MutatedPercent]

Marco x hoodie

[@Cryptid_in_the_Cellar]

Honestly after the finale I HATE Moon, she became completely unlikable and the death of Hekapoo was terrible, not to mention how awful Stars decision was.

[@chaddfrancis2179]

The mass genocide of the magical creatures No one seems to notice?

[@slaybutton1692]

I mean, destroying fucking magic was intense and I kinda liked it, but hekapoo... Just fucking accepted to die like that? It didn't even show her dying in a emotional moment of her saying goodbye,it didn' even show her remenents.

[@OneDude7745]

Yes, Star is a disgusting mass murderer and Moon is garbage!

[@tayojones9460]

And Marco is an arrogant prick. Ludo, Tom, Eclipsa and Janna are the only characters who are likeable

[@YujiUedaFan]

Star IS the Forces of Evil. Well, you live long enough and you become the villain.

[@Jacksparrow-sh8te]

Destroying magic isn’t going to solve anything. Especially if Mina is still out there. Imagine she discovers guns.

[@aesthedicks5103]

...not to mention this show literally goes into full detail of how brutal violence towards the monsters in the book, it's literally an essential part of the show's lore. who's to say human's won't try the same shit? but that doesn't matter because ˜”*°•.˜”*°• s t a r c o •°*”˜.•°*”˜

[@Jacksparrow-sh8te]

aesthedicks 😂 😂😂😂

[@ryancarson6962]

aesthedicks Not to mention that the human on Earth would actually have a REASON to have problems with Monsters and the other creatures due to the general chaos of the world merge and how these creatures suddenly appearing would displace many people from their homes. And that’s not accounting for the possibility that they think this was an attack, overall the societal problems on Mewni will probably only get WORSE due to the events of the finale.

[@jlwiseman98]

That's the irony of if, they make it feel like if you just remove magic that will solve all their problems, when it reality it only temporarily solves the solution since there are other ways mina can hurt the monsters. So they had star cause mass genocide, destroy a source of power for multiple dimensions, separate families and friends forever and do god knows how much more damage....to solve a problem that can easily come back in an entirely different way. No one properly thought this idea out, because the solution of destroying magic kinda seems like it caused more damage then it just would've to have the four queens attack mina themselves and heal everyone through other means.

[@orochi-mo9987]

She most likely died in the woods

[@MasterIsabelle]

I never understood how Marco in the first few episodes of the show can beat up and hurt otherworldly monsters with no recoil while he breaks his arm on 3 wooden boards

[@pinnapop7895]

LMAO

[@kastro6959_]

Welcome to cartoon world

[@RiceTrees]

Monsters are very squishy

[@angie-adriangarcia4975]

Yeah that always gets me. Yes it's a cartoon, but give at least a simple reasonable explanation. Like I don't, magic.

[@UnemploymentScrub23]

This man has more knowledge on the series than the people actually running the show...

[@charlotteno.5332]

*Facts!*

[@the6597]

I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I was wondering what the song at 1:27:30 is. I hope this isn’t too irrelevant.

[@rosecandy8922]

@@the6597 call me by 90s Flav

[@the6597]

@@rosecandy8922 Thank you!

[@rosecandy8922]

@@the6597 You're welcome! :)

[@jolibearts7787]

I swear when you said "Star was a terrible girlfriend to Tom" I paused the video and was like "OMG YES SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT!" I agree so much with that statement. Star was AWFUL to Tom when they were dating and that's what bothered me the most in the later seasons. The writers treat Tom like crap just to promote Starco. Tom deserves SO MUCH better than Star and that's why he's my favorite character in SVFOE

[@jlwiseman98]

Oh trust me, don't worry, literally every tom fan in the fandom was beyond mad with Star in 3 and 4. You are not alone, people were incredibly mad at the show having star treat him so badly and getting away with it as if her liking Marco meant all the things she did to Tom were somewhat ok. Its incredibly refreshing to see a review that actually acknowledges that part because not enough KZbin videos on this show ever actually talk about star's treatment of Tom and how mean it was. God, poor Tom. I hope someday we get better justice done for his character.

[@Gotabonetopick]

I mean, the treatment of tom shouldn't be surprising. Remember how they treated him in his introduction episode?

[@NotSoProfessionalGuy]

Star isn't really a good person in general, she's demanding, annoying, causes a lot of the problems with the show, doesn't give respect for anyone half of the time, etc.

[@feroxino1051]

Tomco better

[@madamkoifish]

That’s why I’ve dropped this show cause she was an awful character. Her and Marco.

[@fishboy499]

I’m sorry but “ OH GOD FUNNY GREEN MAN HAS A GUN” is the funniest thing

[@maxhasproblems4885]

Ricky the Rock invader zim: enter the florpus in a nutshell

[@BokyProkyYT]

Remind me

[@QuiGonJohn1999]

7:30 Blue should have edited in a gun instead of ludo holding a wand

[@DinoDealer]

i saw a comment on a different video about svtfoe that said “the thing is: the blood moon didn’t even have to be romantic. just soul bonded. best friends for life. the end” and it honestly makes the most sense. it didn’t have to be romantic, it really didn’t.

[@joshku7488]

That would've been WAY better!

[@HipomosJ]

The blood moon thing should have been metaphorical in the first place, but even if it "did" something, then the blood moon should have only been an external force that indirectly made actions/events that strengthened the bond between Marco and Star (and the curse should have been solved way earlier)

[@joshku7488]

@HipomosJ this whole Blood Moon situation showed that Marco and Jackie were the ones who were actually meant to be together. Because Marco and Star were done by magic, and Marco already had feelings for Jackie, who ended up returning those feelings. But the blood moon curse got in the way. It also made any Starco moments non-consensual because they didn't willingly get those feelings.

[@Akari_A_]

In Monogatari, the protagonist is pretty much soulbound to a certain character to the point that if one of them dies, the other one dies as well. Their bond is so deep it might as well be a new relationship "category": not platonic, not romantic, not "heh heh he's hot", it's just something else. And even then, the protagonist still has a girlfriend (and they are an amazing couple, let me tell you that). Was it really that hard to make Star and Marco's relationship be at least a fraction of what I said above? What if the Blood Moon Curse somehow ended up revealing that Star and Marco are like, long lost family or something, thus explaining why the Diaz house has a picture of Eclipsa's father and why Marco has cheekmarks? And what if this "long lost family relationship" was used as an emotional moment for the eventual "Marco is evil, Monster Arm is back" arc? AND WHAT IF ALL OF THIS HAPPENED WHILE MARCO AND JACKIE ARE AN ACTUAL COUPLE?

[@MegaSoulHero]

This was the list of steps they took when writing this show: 1) Make Starco happen 2) Fill in the rest

[@ryanm.8720]

3) Kill off Toffee at some point 4) ...Dunno, find another villain to replace him?

[@mitchcane2352]

I think it was more like: 1) Want Starco to happen from the beginning 2) You're absolutely terrified that people will just drop the show entirely if you make them a couple too early and writing a romance after it's established is haaaaaaard 3) Decide to put as many obstacles as you can to roadblock the relationship until the very last parts of the series

[@prowolf633]

5) Kill Mina

[@drawnwithlove3499]

3) Try and write really cool lore but nooooo that's too hard let's just ship Marco with everyone for no reason

[@enricopucci1220]

@@prowolf633 6) Skip step 5

[@Jacksparrow-sh8te]

If the creator made Tom after her Ex’s does that mean her Ex’s were good and she was the neglectful one?

[@Tiny_Winy]

Jack sparrow thats what i was thinking tbh

[@InazumaSensei]

Well, Star is based on her at the end (while Marco on her husband, by the way), so probably.

[@InazumaSensei]

To be honest, tho, Tom _was_ a "demon ex-boyfriend" at the beginning.

[@carlacarrero4975]

@@InazumaSensei i think this whole tom is based on her exboyfriends thing is mostly daron using toms character development as wish fullfillment of her wanting to see them change and maybe thats the real reason why daron even with the whole exboyfriend thing wanted to make tom change and become a better person because maybe deep down daron wishes her exs changed for her and would explain the line that tom says about how star inspires her but thats just my opinion

[@PebkioNomare]

It get's even worse. Star and Marco's relationship was supposed to mirror her current relationship. I wonder how her husband felt... watching Nefcy's stand-in stay in a good relationship with her ex's stand-in for so long. "Er... honey? Why is Star still with Tom? Why are you having Marco and Kelly be in a casual relationship? Is there something I need to know?"

[@burnttoastproductions9352]

I just hated how unlikable Star and Marco became. Star was an out of touch rich girl in the first two seasons, but that was for comedy. In the later two seasons she’s a brat all the time as a serious part of her character? Marco was a nerd in a fun likable way, but that’s turns into obsession and forced awkwardness that I HATE. They just are so much harder to watch in the later seasons.

[@smart.but.stupid]

Not only is he awkward, but he suddenly became both apathetic and self-centred. A kind of kid who brags all the time but doesn't get what he wants and becomes upset and throws a temper tantrum.

[@nguyhiemnhan86]

Star is literally Hitler with a magic wand

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@nguyhiemnhan86 …

[@craigpeoples9883]

@@ThisIsAshley41Helping monsters is a great change however doesn't make up for her rash decision at the end

[@Hbdjk552]

@@nguyhiemnhan86 ...

[@jazzy9983]

I think it’s actually pretty crazy how fucking huge this show and fandom was before it ended.. but now nobody talks about it. I think the way the show ended completely killed the fandom and mostly everyone including me doesn’t really wanna think about it

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Kinda like Game of Thrones.

[@jazzy9983]

@@ChiefMedicPururu I actually was also thinking of game of thrones when I wrote this but I personally never watched it so I couldn’t say lol

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@jazzy9983 Let's just say Season 8 killed everything. Even the actors look disappointed.

[@jazzy9983]

@@ChiefMedicPururu would you say game of thrones is worth the watch bad ending aside? Like is it enjoyable to sit through ig?

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@TheGlassesPro Oof.

[@NotAHamster]

Star became a horrible person for one, and they dropped too many plot points Plus the ending was Star possibly dooming every dimension by choosing to destroy magic entirely, but it's ok because she and marco get to be together

[@bett1826]

I know right?? Like there are probably INFINITE dimensions and Star probably left MILLIONS of lives in the dust.

[@jmachero5852]

More than millions if you’re talking about dimensions. More than quadrillions even.

[@bett1826]

@@jmachero5852 Exactly!! She has no idea what's out there!

[@r4ffyy]

I'm 11, binged this show when I was 9, remembered it existed- AND THEN THIS HAPPENS?? sorry what? this is the first time if heard of this, btw

[@pinkiepierocks6360]

yeah personally even if there were problems with season 3 they should have ended the show there but instead they have to have star go full thanos and commit mass genocide

[@TheLastHylianTitan]

"only i know how this all turns out" oh shit. Toffee knew from the beginning. he was trying to destroy Mewni so the show would be over two seasons too early and we wouldn't have to suffer through the series finale. he was the Star, and bad writing was the Forces of Evil all along.

[@kitkat6073]

Crunch nice

[@delphoxhoopa7289]

Dang, that's deep....😓😰😨

[@stankylad8815]

My boi Toffee tried to warn us, we didn't listen.

[@KingkyLeor]

well yeah he's a star, the brightest ones always ends first

[@katherinesmallbean3594]

*Gasp*

[@CrashCubeZeroOne]

I did the maths. Those 7 seconds Marco was getting over Jackie is equialent to a little over 85 days in the Neverzone, which is almost 3 months. So he wasn't lying.

[@adampkalb]

Aw, rats! Why would Marco think in Neverzone time when he was on Earth? Or did he already get over Jackie when he was in the Neverzone? I don't know! February 9, 2020, 3:41pm

[@t.thomas8919]

Wouldn't that be nice if the show implied that was the reason it was over so quick. But, I forget, the writing staff doesn't believe in continuity. My bad.

[@shesa1946]

T. Thomas oof

[@fdpsabortangdeuva7066]

How many time you exchanged to do this!?

[@waywardjoker6061]

HAHA

[@anonymous-rq2lh]

i’ve watched this video multiple times, and my jaw *still* drops every time at the part saying the crew were writing a serialized story-driven show as they went along

[@yulee3266]

im sure that can be done well or at least good it just takes time and good ideas

[@herowither12354]

It works for Ninjago.

[@kenm.a.d.7196]

It explains way too much

[@ashebennett7726]

And this is why Tom became my main and only reason to watch this show. -legit character development -struggles of building himself to be a better person from the ground up -became forgiving -felt guilt for past actions (whereas the main leads have no guilt for being douchebags) -learns from mistakes -is truly an inspiring character -selfless -is truly a caring character -self sacrificing

[@jlwiseman98]

If any aspect in this show should be remembered years after the finale, I hope its tom. It's good to know the fandom is finally giving him the respect he deserves after all this time.

[@JustEverton]

I like Tom, but it felt like he was in the show just for teen drama after S2, you can say the same thing for Marco.

[@michaelstrong5383]

My boy Tom had better development than the main characters on this show.

[@KingkyLeor]

tom was legit the only reason i watched those seasons too, like i remember his episodes so clearly yet the rest after season 2..... eh, he's just so good, so pure, so cute, i would SIMP for tom (more like a celebrity/fan thing rather than relationship, this boi needs a break)

[@rewriter3981]

*Facts man while starco is cool and stuff I really enjoyed tom in season 3 and i slowly hoped tomstar happened but eh tom deserves better than star*

[@joaquinm9148]

“Fell from grace”? More like “dug their own grave deeper and deeper”

[@noti7510]

"Fell from grace" makes it seem angelic. I would compare SVTFOE to a bird of prey that saw a rabbit called shipping and then flew down to catch it, but the rabbit was just painted on the ground, so the bird became a bloody mess on the ground.

[@redster2152]

@@noti7510 that's an interesting example

[@juniper5604]

off topic but 1000th like

[@emanuelepolloni4002]

I think the writers hadn't anything planned after the Battle for Mewni movie because they thought that it was going to be the series finale, considering that it concludes the main plot of the first 2 seasons. Then Disney told them they they were renewed for a third season, and since they hadn't prepared anything for a possible continuation of the series, they just threw everything to a wall and saw what stick, leading to subplots that don't go anywhere, abrupt shifts in characterization and lots of other issues. I think this might be one of the reasons why Disney nowadays prevents their series to last for more than three seasons (except for The Owl House, which they decided to not give a third season and instead a series of specials because as everyone knows, Disney doesn't like LGBT people and their positive representation)

[@SpencerBPD]

When they killed off Toffee the show died.

[@adamk-paxlogan7330Sucks]

fake fan

[@shizaanimations7634]

Dark Spyro not true, the show drastically declined in quality once the best villain in the show died If you think they are a fake fan due to him saying the show gets worse, then maybe you’re the fake fan, since you will not let other people have opinions, thinking that your opinion of the show is perfect, meaning you are a horrible, and possibly fake, fan.

[@gutsonthemic5261]

i disagree. the series manage to actually remain strong without him

[@eatatjoes6751]

No, when they slowly shrank the cast to accomodate the growing tumor of ship and Moon/Mina became the villains instead of Toffee or Eclipsa...or Globgor...or *SOLARIA.*

[@PsychoChuckGreene]

Same here when I seen Toffee got resurrected and then gets killed minutes later is when I was done with the show

[@loquiinsani5567]

Just imagine if the used the bloodmoon to prove star and marco did in fact NOT have romantic feelings, making the finale all anout the power of platonic feelings which is a theme that represents the first seasons quite well imo

[@wormyworms2774]

Don't you need at least 120 hp before a bloodmoon can take place? I'm pretty sure they didn't get any life crystals. Also, didn't realise svtfoe took place in terraria.

[@twotruckslyrics]

@@wormyworms2774PFF ILY

[@re-mo3jq]

this dude has some god level editing and verbal essay skills. but then there's the 3 pixel camera

[@yabazyabacoffee]

You know, it didnt really bother me that much surprisingly

[@alauram.6416]

Everyone got to start somewhere! It didn't bug me at all really because everything else (editing, story telling, ect) was quality.

[@JimmieJon]

Hey, as long as it works.

[@re-mo3jq]

Jimmie Oh of course i wasn’t trying to make fun. His content is quality

[@edgara3213]

Except for the fucking audio Jesus Christ bless whoever wore headphones watching this fucking video dude like fuck ever head of audio consistency? Fuck god damn

[@carlosbeltran4488]

It still bothers me that the whole show's about Star growing and learning with magic, for her to destroy it at the end.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

not to mention killing monsters whose life literally depends solely on magic ;-; also . .isn't that what toffee was tryna do in the first place, destroy magic?

[@jasminkrieger8228]

@@paradoxtatorstudios9681 tofee had the biggest laugh in the end and im dissapionted they didnt use seth tofees boss instead of Mina

[@Jose-Luis.Garnica-Sanchez]

It made me wonder how pony head was still alive in her decapitated form as well as being able to continue to float after Star destroyed the magic

[@jasminkrieger8228]

@@Jose-Luis.Garnica-Sanchez yeah plothole i mean they are magic aswell

[@Jose-Luis.Garnica-Sanchez]

@@paradoxtatorstudios9681 Toffee was trying to destroy magic bc it serves his interests tho. If it wasn't for magic he'd be immortal. His finger being cut off was a painful reminder of the day when he realized magic posed a real threat to him and his ppl

[@ilyjrdy]

i think star vs the forces of evil is a perfect example of why it's best we didn't get that season 3 of gravity falls

[@ramdelure]

Because that was Alex Hirsch's own decision

[@nmtltlz]

yUP

[@Notfallkaramell]

@•• At least smaerter than Nefcy Darron (Darren? I can't write her name), Noelle Stevenson (Shera reboot) and the creator of Steven Universe (forget her first name) but together.

[@nightnaughty]

@@Notfallkaramell Are you for real? Those 3 have created the most acclaimed shows of the decade, and fought for telling the stories they wanted to tell consistenly admist censors and the biggest companies obstacles, creating actual change in animation storytelling.

[@Aego384]

@@nightnaughty Sure, but that doesn't mean their shows aren't flawless. Same goes for Hirsch.

[@lemonlebowski1397]

Marco being a twist villain would have been great. It would make a cool connection with the bat wing/skull design for "Evil" in the title and his wand design. Also his connection with Toffee. If there was a family link between Celena and Marco (or any kind of connection, I dunno) it would explain the crescent moon. Maybe Celena leaked information to the serpentines because she knew the danger of magic abuse and the risk of monsters dying out. Or Marco could have been a Mewnan who had his memories erased by the High Commission and placed into a human family to keep him out of Mewni. That would be hard to explain with his whole family, though. One thing I wished was added to the cheek mark/magic exposure thing was that only Mewnans get cheek marks from magic exposure, or if they have a direct link to magic like a wand. If Marco were a Mewnan or a confirmed relative to the true royal Butterfly line (like a relative to Eclipsa), the cheek marks would make sense. It would explain why Jannan and Tom don't get any because they're a human and a monster. Marco and Star as friends would have been a much more stable route for the series. And a big fight between a twist villain Marco and Star would be heart-wrenching, seeing two friends who grew together fight over opposing beliefs. Which one is right? Star, who wants to preserve magic and save the monsters, or Marco, who wants magic gone to keep the realms safe and also save monsters from an oppressive society. I almost wish we could get a remake.

[@galten7361]

Eh on Marco.

[@Akari_A_]

We need Star vs The Forces of Evil: Brotherhood

[@fungushoney9958]

That's what I'm saying!! REBOOT SVTFOE

[@AlashiaTuol]

Or, considering how quickly Star was convinced to scapegoat magic itself for problems actually caused by people: Star could be written as the one who wants to destroy magic, having decided that magic itself is ultimately a net negative on her life because blaming magic is easier than dealing with all the problems magic has been involved with. Star then has to eventually face that this stance was her mentally taking the easy way out from dealing with the more complicated reality of her problems: not magic itself, but the people who've chosen to abuse it. Consider a full-show rewrite using the ideas they centered their plots around and mishandled. Maybe the entire overarching plot could center around an (initially) more straightforward end-of-season-two twist that the Magic High Comission are actually a villainous force, trying to keep magic in the hands of only the people they favor (maintaining the class/racism caste system). Marco and Star somehow find out some way that the ability to use magic can actually be spread, because it has been spread to Marco, and after the big twist with the MHC, where they fully realize the power abuses committed by these authority figures Star grew up knowing as family, the two decide to spread magic to people that don't have it, starting with monsters. The MHC are hesitant to outright label Moon's daughter an enemy publicly despite these actions undermining and destabilizing Mewni's hierarchy, escalating to a point of outright battles against the MHC when they try to stop Star and Marco, and so publicly label Marco a force of evil to the kingdom and the one leading Star astray, kind of paralleling how he becomes the face of the rebellion at St. Olga's (and maybe that earlier plot could be slightly reworked into foreshadowing). Maybe he and Star work together until someone they introduced magic to goes wrong, and she sees this incident as proof the whole idea is bad and backs out, coming to believe that magic itself must be destroyed since the Magic High Comission is bad but Marco is also wrong to continue their old idea of sharing magic. Boom! Three-way conflict. Heck, maybe Toffee and Ludo could join Star's and Marco's sides respectively. Maybe Toffee shows up when Star's at her most unsure of what is right, away from Marco and the MHC, and whispers right in her ear about the terrible effect magic has had on everything she loves.

[@Simipourfangirl]

Has there ever been a show where someone is evil but they don't know it until the climax?

[@braybomb772]

Fun fact: someone asked Daron Nefcy about how eclipsa’s dad spoke to Marco and told him to go to the ball and daron replied with.... Magic

[@izzyspell2629]

That's like a general response to half of the problems and plot holes in any fantasy.

[@SamG5457]

@@izzyspell2629 a wizard did it

[@werh227]

@@SamG5457 *Gandalf wiggling intensifies while jazz plays in the background*

[@thetomboiyoutuber518]

How could you guys fuck up a season finale so badly? Everyone on the team: *MAGIC-*

[@bekrox64]

this is the equivelant of the force in star wars

[@vxx3576]

They really pushed Starco, like they feel more like siblings. I really only think they made them a thing because it’s a boy character and a girl character.

[@nightfall598]

I was fine with the thought of them getting together before A) I realized what the blood moon thing did. B) before season 3 I was also fine with the being sibling-figures to one another (as it’s hard to find when you have two non-related male and female protagonists). I want shows that can show how deep the bonds between two people like that can go without them having to be romantically involved (in fine if they are, just so long as it’s set up well).

[@moonbreeze4276]

I agree, and it felt like there was a lot of pressure on the ship, like the whole series revolving around it in the end. I wish that they’d eased us into it instead of just throwing Star and Marco together a day after TomStar died, and then Earth and Mewni being cleaved together because of their love or whatever. It’s sad how far this show fell from Grace.

[@gracekim1998]

@@moonbreeze4276 pleasing the fandom made it worse

[@moonbreeze4276]

@@gracekim1998 Yeah, the fact that Daron was writing in favour of the majority of the fandom was clearly a mistake. I think that she forgot that it was her own show and her own story, not everybody else’s. It became so much less of her own story that she (and the rest of her team) actually started taking sides of ships instead of thinking logically. For example, they all loved Starco and were obviously doing their hardest to make it happen, but because of this they just sort of pushed away everything in the way (Kellco, TomStar...) just to make it happen, which wasn’t fair to others. It wasn’t fair to those characters, either. I hope that this made sense lol. Also, that offscreen breakup really triggered me, even though I wasn’t even for Kellco.

[@juliusroman8616]

@@theonlyethanhiroshiki There's only Season 3.

[@JellyFishGell]

I'll never get over how Star committed a universal scale genocide by destroying magic. Imagine how many people died or were left stranded in different dimensions. Now that I think about it, wasn't father time made out of magic? Shouldn't he be dead then?? Did Star literally destroy time itself?????

[@juliusroman8616]

I don't know what to say to that. I have no idea.

[@mikuchuuu]

Honestly, like just let a lot of magical people die and not even make an epic battle?

[@tiruliru1189]

I really wish the 4th season gets ret-conned. I hated Star in 4th season. She was literally Hitler in disguise.

[@mikuchuuu]

@@tiruliru1189 lmfoaoaoa fr

[@JLacay]

Not only genocide, she destroyed dimensions economies that relys on magic

[@spdrhyder8194]

This show (next to voltron: LD, ugh) should be a poster child for why its important to have a established beginning, middle, and end instead of writing as you go. I really cant think of a non episodic show that worked despite not being planned out. Other than that, i unfortunately think that its best for the writers to not interact/ be involved with the fandoms they create until the show's actually over (especially when you're writing AS YOU GO). Because, whether they want to or not, they reshape the story to fit what the audience wants (or what they're responding to) and this ends up leaving everyone unsatisfied

[@Nipotazzi]

I don't think being completely silent is the best way to go, but a middle ground of connection with the fans without being influenced by them is more ideal

[@jturner2577]

Or at the very least have some idea of how you want the story to go. Like Gravity Falls made things up as it went along, but it also had a concrete goal (Revealing the Author of the Journals) and a vague goal of an apocalyptic event for the ending of the series.

[@supergal8958]

Never liked the bitch but Jk Rowling was right to plan the whole Harry Potter series out before writing it.

[@fungushoney9958]

The only show that made a largely unplanned story work into amazing things eventually is Adventure time and thats because they had 10 seasons to weave the web

[@MsPoiko]

it is never explained why eclipsa's black magic is a bad thing, why it hurt the owner and how eclipsa learn it. it just is. And why the whisper spell exist?? just for the plot

[@samuraibear5102]

@Zachary Khan I feel that still needs a origin like the first queen how made the spell

[@spyro2002]

I guess you can argue that glossaryk knew everything from the start, so he knew to create the spell, but still it's weird. We never learn stuff like the sagnificance of it being the first spell star learned. Like it couldn't have been like "Hey little star, who want to learn how to destroy the magic?" and little star just goes "Me me me!", it probably was more deep than that. I feel like toffee, while he was kinda wasted, I feel like they did his character justice for the most part, where he didn't care about dying cause he knew he was right and that his way would go through in the end. Idk though I feel like the finale was just majorly rushed. More than anything I don't buy that glossaryk would die along with the magic. I mean he is a God of sorts, didn't he exist before magic to create it. Imo he so just take a magic less form or something. Also yeah a better explanation on why the worlds were cleaved together. Anyways don't want to rumble more than that, you get the point

[@LadyBern]

@@spyro2002 l Edit: I somehow pocket commented with my phone. Thanks to whoever liked this odd accident. You're all wonderful, be kind to one another.

[@gracekim1998]

Castor Games Eclipsa’s spell that Moon used has no name because she didn’t want to be like her mother

[@WobblesandBean]

The whispering spell exists because Laputa: Castle in the Sky exists. That's all there is to it. They just thought it would be cool.

[@clarabainy4588]

Unpopular opinion: I loved the idea of Evil Marco. Like, the way a lot of powerful things seemed to care about him, the monster arm situation, the moment he used the wand... I would really like if that happened.

[@love2manythings]

Sameeee

[@love2manythings]

Tbh I think the "ready as I'll ever be" animatic really put me on it 😅

[@clarabainy4588]

@@love2manythings Yes! It's amazing

[@jordanoh659]

Not to mention that he got stabbed by the evil unicorn(sry forgot the name)

[@ehi_ij]

That nigga was clearly super human for real flipped a horse like it was clock work

[@Val-zn5px]

Tom honestly deserved a hella lot more respect from Star. He changed so much, for HER, and she didn't even bat an eye at it. I honestly feel so bad for Tom, all he wanted was to make Star happy and he gets treated like absolute dog shit for it. The creators really turned star into a complete jerk.

[@yee6870]

I feel bad for Daron's boyfriends

[@aceventura4413]

She did bat an eye she dated him 👁👄👁

[@nikasweettart3224]

Tom was nassasistic, obsessive, and extreamly controlling all while having a raging temper problem. Star did respect Tom, but she respected him about as much as normal 14/15 yr olds respect each other. He did a LOT of things that really hurt Star and it took a lot of growing on both sides. In the end Tom is the one who ends it because he realizes they need to grow and change as people before they could, if they could, ever work out. Star respected Tom more than he deserved at the beginning and she respected him even more when they had grown and changed at the end end of their relationship. Yall need to remember these are young teenagers running around. Please remember what it was like to be 14 when you talk about how "horrible" of a person she is.

[@Chrisdish]

@@nikasweettart3224 did you read the second sentence? He changed for her to better himself, I understand one side not showing respect, but leaving someone on read who's trying to make you happy isn't what anyone would call, "respectful."

[@nikasweettart3224]

@@Chrisdish that's the thing tho, we dont better ourselves for other people we better ourselves to make us better people. A lot of Tom's initial behaviors when he was changing were STILL a ploy at manipulation as well as narcissism. He wanted to be better because he had hurt star and they were trying to have a relationship again. I said what I said.

[@Yivan4]

Kudos for adding COMPLETE FULL SUBTITLES. Very few channels does this.

[@muddashucka9743]

*do

[@k9kimbo]

He even gave the subtitles so much personality

[@axolotlfairy2473]

Yea- a lotta people make their captions overly jokey so its nice to see captions that're both accurate and have a bit of charm

[@catalyst_8759]

To be honest, i thought Tom was the shittiest character in the show, but now looking back. He’s a really good character, his character development is quite decent.

[@anarchomando7707]

Honestly I think Jackie and Tom should just date all the drama and decide to prank everyone else in an act of defiance against the shity characters

[@buithanhson8116]

Did you just said that Tom is a"shitty character"?? That is NOT cool!! 😠

[@Ubermensch9240]

Moral of the story: DON'T call something your favorite if it's incomplete. Edit: My rule still stands.

[@kawaiicookiuwu3322]

Also, don't use shipping in your story. Leave that to the fans and keep doing your own thing.

[@kujikawathemeekmage3640]

Kawaii Cooki UwU - no that’s a shit idea

[@Ubermensch9240]

@@kawaiicookiuwu3322 Yeah that worked real well with Naruto, Voltron, and Digimon. >~>

[@mayborneflower]

Artie Rupinen I’d argue it worked well for Naruto solely in and for The Last.

[@thenurseinblack1810]

@@Ubermensch9240 Naruto was obvious who they'd get with though.

[@TheThunderBat]

I absolutely ship Starco but like, the way they executed the process was awful, I didn’t like it Tons of relationships were torn apart to make room for Starco and that is just wrong

[@TheThunderBat]

I think for Starco endgame to happen along with these other relationships along way would have to take way longer than 4 seasons for it to actually work well and have the final hug before magic dies have an actual hug impact

[@TheThunderBat]

big*

[@diva5093]

ThunderBat If they didn’t do that plot twist of Star returning and saying in Mewni in season 3, that could have worked pretty well, and wouldn’t take so much long. Like, those two in first 2 seasons were so precious.

[@spiderz5145]

Honestly some people shipped Marco and Tom, I’m not saying I dislike the idea but it would’ve been kind of neat... Marco and Jackie too, honestly it shouldn’t have been resolved at all.

[@littlelady9801]

Lets be honest, starco was a bit of a forced ship in the end of the series

[@applesauce7843]

I have NEVER seen a character and their story CARRY as hard as Eclipsa did. She is the ONLY thing that made season 4 bearable. She was AMAZING, but even she couldn't completely bring it back.

[@jturner2577]

Nope but man did she do her best.

[@kirin1230]

And Tim. Eclipsa and Tom hardcore carried.

[@francesca-selfproclaimed-bleep]

They really pulled a Game of Thrones, LMFAO

[@galten7361]

Eclipsa pretty much hijacked the series. It was her show, her villains, her country, her plot. Star was just there from already being there.

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@francesca-selfproclaimed-bleepboth finales came out on the same day. That day was cursed, I guess.

[@robbiebrewer6153]

I blame Starco. It's ruined bothering Star's and Marco's character and it's ruined the series

[@carlacarrero4975]

Welcome to the I blame starco club 😁 also theres an anti Star vs mixtape on 8tracks called svtfoe salt that perfectly describes what a hot mess this finale was

[@ArendAlphaEagle]

This is why Jarco should've remained canon

[@emeraldsky2823]

Starco was also extremely rushed

[@slaybutton1692]

I totally agree with you, star was shown to be a pretty neglectful girlfriend that was bad in relationships, so her ending things with Tom but a few episodes later she is suddenly the perfect girlfriend to marco?

[@syfer4580]

Totally agreed on that. And it's totally noticeable by the near end of the season, specifically when Star and Tom broke up. After seeing that episode I thought of "what is going on with the staff and what happened to the writing?" It went downhill REAL fast. After that episode the rest felt rushed. But thats from my perspective at least.

[@Theaissu]

Marco claiming he was in love with Star since the very beginning is such a load of bull and the writers know it. He only started to show signs of liking Star romantically in season 3.

[@tonym.8069]

Exactly, if they meant love you as a friend and than it was more? Sure. Showing more direct signs of romance in season 2 at least like Star mostly had? Great. But this whole oh yeah the blood moon didn't matter either way is just so eck. Would've been more interesting if it legit bound their souls so where if one dies yeet the other dies with them.

[@irregulargamer1352]

Exactly i was so pissed. marco could have had the perfect realization after his break up with Jackie about how much he liked being around star and should have rushed to ask her out. But nooooooo. You just have to tease and ruin the seasons because they wanted cheap drama.

[@starcola3035]

Marco is obviously based on the husband of the creator (who star is based on) so I don't mind it.

[@ethanwinters1469]

His mentally a thirty year old man

[@albertbecerra]

I believe he always had an attraction, but it grew into something bigger has time went on.

[@psyffee3755]

Magic didn't even need to be destroyed to fix the problem. Skywynne had a spell that could resurrect anybody. Why didn't they resurrect Solaria? It would be very interesting to see Eclipsa and Solaria interact, they already had a voice for Solaria, why not use it again? Solaria could undo all the solarian warriors and boom, no mass genocide. Everyone is happy. Eclipsa would have closure on what her mother thinks of her.

[@Joe-rz3fd]

I feel like they tried too hard to force a political message with the finale. Basically, it seems like they're trying to equate Mina, Moon, and the Solarian warriors to "racist Conservatives" and Star, Eclipsa and their allies as the "tolerant Liberals".

[@mgsanz410]

I mean, Tom could have resurrected Solaria as well. He can bring people back from the dead, right?

[@johannesseyfried7933]

There also would be no need to fuse Earth and Mewni. Dear God, all the horrifying Implications that that Decision brings with it...

[@lunastie39]

Even better, they could have made a longer finale and bring back every single queen to have an epic showdown between the queens, Star, Marco, etc. vs Mina and the solarian warriors.

[@Mehhhhhhhh]

@@johannesseyfried7933 they also had dragoncycles so that means EVERY dimension is fused.

[@kurikar]

i will never forget how heartbroken 13 year old me was when this series ended the way it did. i’ll admit, part of that was bc i shipped TomStar, and it upset me that they weren’t endgame. it wasn’t that entirely though. even 13yo me could discern the ending was ass beyond the horrible ship development. it felt so rushed, and it ended with me hating every character except like, tom and kelly. this entire series is what made me swear off love triangles forever. i hate it bc if it was done right i would be able to look back on this show with fondness and nostalgia. instead, i haven’t watched a SINGLE episode of svtfoe EVER AGAIN since that fateful day in may 2019. i wish i never watched it.

[@flx_res]

I know how you feel 😢

[@holivyanne]

omg totally!! i LOVED svtfoe, it was one of my comfort shows side by side with SU and AT but after the finale I never ever watched anything related to that again, it just ruined everything

[@BelBelle468]

It’s not all bad. For one, you’ve got a couple of ways to discern bad fiction from good before you get invested next time. I stopped Star Vs at s2’s finale cuz of the warning signs that just got worse as the series progressed. But now that you’re aware of the signs, you can save time next time you try something new! Also, you’ve got a big group of ppl who hate the show as much as you do. So you’re not alone!

[@chocopie5992]

Tom and Toffee's backs must hurt from having to carry the entire show Edit: And Eclipsa too ig

[@joshbuoy8661]

Hahahaha!

[@salwajawed691]

And eclipsa honestly

[@trots4940]

@@salwajawed691 Yes, but i still think she should have been a villain. It'd be awesome

[@ClownieFace]

That's why Toffee had to die. Because of the back pain. He was put out of his misery

[@strawberrymilk5319]

And they killed them both

[@Shatugi]

Star vs the forces of evil should have ended with Ludo, Tom, and Marco sitting on a beach watching the sunset. No star. no Jackie. Just 3 bro’s sitting on a beach.

[@bett1826]

I want that SO BAD

[@niveditasrinivasan7070]

...... HA GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

[@moonfestal]

YEEES

[@JuneLotte]

Yeah but if they did that then it would seem like star is dead or something like that so they couldn't do that

[@moonfestal]

@@JuneLotte would that have been so bad

[@MisterMokuroh]

The simplest solution for the "Mina" problem. 1. Freeze time. 2. Send the entire army to the Neverzone without Dimensional Scissors. Hekapoo was against Mina, so she'll probably be cool with it. 3. Unfreeze time.

[@MisterMokuroh]

A different yet still effective solution. 1. Go up to Mina 2. Point at her. 3. Say "Mind Eraser! Pew! Pew!" (That is literally how the spell works) 4. Scramble what few semblances of a mind she has left. 5. Dump her in the Neverzone.

[@adampkalb]

I got a good idea of my own, but it's a lot more complicated than your solution. 0. Omnitraxus sees Star trying to destroy magic, and just before he disappears, pulls Quasar out from another universe, and throws her back in time to the beginning of Cleaved with a warning to Star and Hekapoo about destroying magic, which prompts Marco to remind Star of some of the good things magic has brought them before now. 1. Moon and Eclipsa trap Mina in the Realm of Magic so she forgets about her army, while Hekapoo and Marco rescue Tom from the Realm of Magic, and Star, Janna, Rich Pigeon and Seahorse each take one of Kelly, Jorby, Pony Head or Talon Raventalon to the magic sanctuary to be healed, while Quasar keeps the warriors distracted to buy them some time, as well as King River and Eddie, since they are also taking Globgor there. 2. Star goes back to the Grandma room and gets instructions from Solaria's ghost on how to undo the Solarian magic. 3. Hekapoo takes a heck of a poo on the warriors' armor to keep them distracted too disgusted to attack while Star reads the reverse Solarian spells to stop them. 4. Star and Quasar find Ludo, Lobster Claws and Dennis, who are not some of the monsters on a cliff, and convince them to help save all the other monsters from the other warriors who are still waiting to push them off because Mina hasn't gotten Globgor yet. 5. Star, Marco and Hekapoo, with a lot of help from their aforementioned friends and Star's parents, save everyone and celebrate, before the three of them are confronted by their dark side, because they still feel guilty that the only reason they didn't blow up everything magic and cleave dimensions together was because Quasar came to stop them. Star has become her worst fear - that she would turn into a force of evil. 😱 And she struggles to find a reason why anyone would trust her, Marco or Hekapoo to be a hero. February 8, 2020, 11:34pm

[@imperfectninja6291]

Exactly like jeee, they even referenced that she can’t mess with time too much but twice isn’t that much like god damn she could have just done what you suggested.

[@Tommedian]

Or 1. Find Roy 2. Get his t-shirt canon 3. Fire it at Mina The intro proves this would work

[@kingalpha4755]

Another solution for the mina problem 1. Janna Uses Her Chicken Butt Hypnotizing thingy 2. Hypnotize Mina 3. Dump Her To The Neverzone 2.

[@luust4005]

This show promised a story about a magical princess from another dimension & once you reach the finale the f girl isn't a princess, nor magical & not even from another dimension cuz they just randomly fuse so she can get into the most forced & uncomfortable relationship ever 😭 I'm so disappointed.

[@eatatjoes6751]

That's the worst part to me. The whole premise and appeal of your show (especially upon rewatch) is just gone now because you took the easy way out.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Yeah, true. They killed the freakin' PREMISE!

[@Simipourfangirl]

Yeah that's why I didn't like star not being royal because it kinda defeats the purpose of why she's there. To learn responsibility and mature so she can take the throne when time comes... But nope..

[@Office_chair]

I think that's something that angers me a lot about the ending and how the show progressed was that I loved the magic aspect of the show and how star was a princess and her family history and then the throne was given back to eclipsa even though she didn't seem to care that much or take it all that seriously and then star destroys the magic. And like someone else said it kind of defeats the premise of star going to Earth and learning how to be more mature and responsible because she's going to be the future Queen. And also that I feel like it would have been a better direction that star moon and River continue to rule the Kingdom and eclipsa is like a duchess or some higher up title and tries to help with monster and human relationships and it would probably help that star moon and River the royals they are familiar with are still in charge and are trying to push this change.

[@annabanana7659]

Me while watching the first seasons of SVTFOE: - Loved Marco. He kept Star grounded and the responsible one. - Star is a precious cinnamon roll who will learn to be a proper queen her own way. - Annoyed with Tom with his clinginess. -Toffee wants to destroy magic. He's evil but he's interesting. Me after watching the SVTFOE finale: *TOM DESERVED BETTER. HE'S THE BEST CHARACTER AND THEY DID HIM DIRTY* - Star committed genocide because... PLOT. - RIP Spider with a top hat and all of the spells in Star's magic wand. - Star and Marco are now shitty people. Because all they cared about was each other. Screw everyone else, amiryt? - Where tf is Ludo? And Dennis? What happened to the supposed 'revenge plot'? Oh wait, shipping arcs are better tee-hee! - Plot holes? Y'mean Plot Craters. - Moon's arc as the villain is bland af - They only did what Toffee wanted to do. So Toffee was right all along I guess - They let Mina go... just like that.

[@matthewsoucy9073]

Karma for them

[@joyfied1196]

I LOVE YOU

[@logannottheonefrommarvel9917]

Ha, plot craters. That's a good one. Hey on a side note, why did the main villain of this season get offed by a minor character?

[@phousefilms]

That was something I hated. That Mina, along with her racist(well, monster hating)followers were all spared. Mina gets to just waltz off without any problems when she was willing to commit genocide and the people who were like her just "got over their anger"and were welcomed back? Truth on Star and Marco's jerkassness! They leave Tom in the magic world for...weeks? Months? I was also pissed that Star was more sad about Marco not being in the portrait with her than the fact she was murdering every magical being(I mean, Rhombulus and Omnitraxus were ignorant and monster phobic, but they weren't evil. And Heckapoo was a hero and she didn't even die onscreen!) Add to the fact that they should have ended with Star and Marco still loving each other, but forever apart and you've got a failure finale right there.

[@McMerlin11]

Anna Banana Toffee was killed but he still got what he wanted. WHAT WAS THE POINT.

[@Diskest]

the blood moon thing should have been a prophecy, not a curse like don't get rid of it cause it was a cool scene originally, but if they had just made it some sort of prophecy at least it doesn't actually undermine every scene they have together until the curse is broken

[@niveditasrinivasan7070]

hell yea

[@gxv4078]

It's amazing how all of these fan ideas are infinitely better than the story we actually got

[@donnamitsuki281]

Yeah! Blood Moon changing from "I curse you two to be in love" to instead being "I predict these two people are destined to be together" makes it better. The interactions they have is genuine and the Blood Moon isn't evil or anything,it's just destiny.

[@Diskest]

@@donnamitsuki281 honestly, they get cursed to do something they were gonna do anyways? All it does is diminish their relationship

[@craigpeoples9883]

@@DiskestYep😑

[@spookyho5994]

Honestly, as a starco shipper, your version of how their relationship should’ve progressed makes me really happy. Like, it sounds so much more natural and nice

[@incognitobread2678]

Tom literally ruined all of Starco by forcing them together with the Blood Moon Curse.

[@spookyho5994]

Anthony Thomas huh? But Tom didn’t have anything to do with that?

[@incognitobread2678]

@@spookyho5994 yes he did, in the first season he was trying to curse Star and combine their souls but it chose Marco and Star instead. He didn't even tell Star he was going to do this to her. Now starco was fake and there are no good moments of it.

[@GreatUniter]

@@incognitobread2678 That wasn't Tom's fault. Marco wasn't even supposed to be at the Blood Moon Ball. It was also revealed that it wasn't the curse wasn't the reason they fell in love. Star and Marco got together after the curse was lifted. Starco was done horribly but it wasn't his fault.

[@incognitobread2678]

@@GreatUniter It was his fault though, I mean I still love Tom and all but he ruined the most popular ship, Marco was worried and learned his lesson. I am not accepting that reason as canon, almost 4 seasons of the blood moon curse and now he just says it's fake? I think it was all of the main character's faults except like Janna and Kelly or Kellie? I don't know.

[@mhairiharris4872]

The fact that I didn’t even realise moon was a twist villain shows how badly it was done.

[@lolzize8208]

Some things that make the Moon plot twist horrifyingly awful: 1. It throws away all of the character development she had as she would have been willing to kill the monsters if she had not gotten back the stupid throne she’d never even shown previous interest in beforehand 2. Moon is painted as trustworthy and is forgiven after all of this. 3. It contradicts everything about Moon’s supposedly logical personality completely out of nowhere It was a shockingly bad writing choice for a show with so much potential. It sucks we will never be able to see how incredible this show could have been in the right hands.

[@schris3]

I don't know, there are some instances where Moon showed bad judgement, kinda like Star; but she is much more rational than her daughter.

[@kirstydepaor547]

Yeah they did Moon dirty, transforming her from a competent queen to a stupid petty bitch.

[@yaniradiaz583]

Nefcy on the Tweet: "Toffee used his powers for evil!" But Star literally did the same thing Toffee wanted. Nefcy could have made him an Itachi type but took the easy road.

[@Unknownfanatic0]

WTF Nefcy WTF

[@CartoonFan1994]

A mass genocide and overall magic Holocaust over a terrorist that got off scot-free anyways, reckless impulsiveness and lack of patience, as well as neglecting the feelings of her boyfriends totally make a great female role model, am I right?

[@michaelstrong5383]

This is like if in Infinity War, Thanos snapping his fingers to erase half of life would be viewed as a legitimate happy ending to everything. Yes, Thanos is the main character in the movie, but it still paints him as the villain. Star is suppose to be the main hero in all of this and yet her committing genocide is suppose to be a good thing.

[@noonebossesthegarnet2890]

Notepad。txt Yes, and mass genocide for that Diaz dick is not evil either. Absolutely not evil, very heroic. XD

[@spookyho5994]

Maybe they could’ve had an interesting storyline with this concept, like Star becoming just as bad if not worse than Toffee (and the people around her actually realizing that).. guess not

[@unodos2647]

I never was a fan of romance scenes. It feels like I'm intruding on something private. I just feel awkward.

[@vaneapreston498]

OMG I didn’t think I could relate with this with anyone!

[@nitya6999]

I'm cool with books, but movie/show romance scenes just make me uncomfortable.

[@zoisite3326]

i kind of like romance scenes, but what makes me awkward is kissing scenes

[@t-tap9109]

@@zoisite3326 sex scenes make me uncomfortable. I d o n t l i k e i t.

[@utatanepikoV5]

The only romance scenes that I like are the ones in Steven Universe

[@scourgescourge4202]

Tom was single handily my favorite character in svtfoe and it hurt to see the way star treated him especially in the final episodes

[@mr.duck1246]

I remember when watching the show, I kept thinking that Eclipsa would realize that she’s not interested in ruling, and would rather live a peaceful life with her family, and Moon would go back to ruling, as she is naturally good and that, and that there would be a lesson like: “even though they aren’t royalty by blood, they still have the skills and determination, as should you even if you aren’t rich by family” or something, idk. Oh well!

[@jturner2577]

Eclipsa did realize it, but didn't do it.

[@littletravelblog7589]

Oh, that would have been a wonderful message!

[@mr.duck1246]

Little Travel Blog I’m glad you think so!

[@janellewright3830]

But then she treated monsters better than the people that actually need a place to stay and cant walk 1 step just to get out of there house honestly eclipsa had good intentions but she was very unfair sometimes

[@remyhavoc4463]

@@jturner2577 oh dang, didn't think about it that way but yeah I'm makes perfect sense

[@anniebannanielosttheirnanny]

“Let’s see how SVTFOE fell from grace” _sees it’s over an hour long_ “Welp better grab my popcorn”

[@lorettabes4553]

I read Steven Universe for some reason. Maybe bc of the Peridot picture? Ugh, I need sleep.

[@theberrby6836]

I had cake and tea! :D

[@JuanGomez-ke5py]

@@lorettabes4553 complicated in their own good

[@Quinhala11]

It's 2 hours long

[@anabelletiffanyace]

OMG, I DIDN'T SEE THAT. I didn't know it was gonna be 2 hours long till I saw your comment.

[@daz5491]

I feel like Tom became the only likable character at the end of the show.

[@luvithdrevis]

And Eclipsa's family. Tbh I only watched till the end for them.

[@miarose7315]

Pretty much

[@drawnwithlove3499]

@@luvithdrevis yeah I loved Eclipsa and Globgor

[@cheddarika]

And Janna

[@hirahiro2331]

Everyone but the main characters lol

[@Kuhboose1]

I think a major problem is that they started the show with the idea of character driven story, and they brought up all these really interesting elements, but they didn't have a plan for any of it so it just fell into chaos with them scrambling back and forth between being character driven and world driven. But in doing so they completely lost track of where the plot was and where the character arcs were meant to go. I was all for some shippy, relationship stuff, all for Starco so long as there was a fulfilling and gradual move towards it, but again, it was like they couldn't decide how to do that and so it went from a beautiful and natural relationship, to incredibly forced.

[@Kuhboose1]

I wanna add that I loved the blood moon...initially. It was so cool and interesting when it was introduced, but for something that had such implied weight, they just ignored it. As well as the art in that room in the first season, I remember waiting for so long for that room in St. Olgas (pretty sure it was there, its been years) to have SOME meaning, and it just never did. I can't decide whether they kept having new ideas as to where to take the show and just couldn't decide, or if they just put as much random shit in as possible to make anything they did later seem planned. I'm mostly just mad at what the show could have been. It started so charming and lovely and then I couldn't even watch the last season cause I was so fed up with things just being ignored.

[@awkwardfreakinperson7936]

@@Kuhboose1 I still enjoyed the last season because of Eclipsa, Tom and the whole Globgor mystery

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@Kuhboose1 I was so hooked on the St. Olga's plot too and expected them to foreshadow that Saint Olga was either their equivalent of a nun or a princess but then they revealed out of goddamn nowhere that she was a robot and like, "Why?"

[@CheeseTheWhistle]

In regards to the show staff... *cue the gif of Spongebob's mind in chaos*

[@Greggers1516]

I think it’s weird that she based Tom after all her exes even tho he’s the best character and def the best partner based on how much effort and care he put into his relationship. It tells you the kinda person Daron really is. She is a girl lost in her own world where she thinks she is the protagonist in a world of side characters, when she is terrible

[@ajgameguy3674]

I dunno. I think she used the ex-boyfriend junk on Pre-Season 3 Tom. Afterwards, they build up Tom as a better person.

[@albertbecerra]

You think Tom is the best partner? Even though Marco has always put star over himself, even when she was in a relationship with Tom?

[@maxfelson9467]

well sometimes a character grew or have to grow when a show progress. i mean it would boring and kinda cliche if he just end up being an *sshole. its kinda like himym....except different..

[@CreditR01]

She might've had something there if Tom hadn't gone out of his way to change and become a better person, and Star apparently...didn't. At least not when it comes to her own relationships.

[@streakyanchovy]

Wait, what? I never would've guessed that Tom was meant to be based off a really shitty ex. It might be my soft spot for edgy characters, but Tom is actually my 2nd favorite character. Eclipsa is my no #1 but that's beside the point. I just like to pretend everything ended after Eclipsa was officially pronounced queen. That would have been a good enough finale without leaving us with too many questions.

[@DeathKitta]

Funny enough, in the beginning I shipped Starco, but later when the show started aggressively pushing Starco down our throats I started resent this ship. Marco/Kelly and Tom/Star worked perfectly but NOPE let's play with character's personalities so they suddenly will have problems and even break up off screen only to shove starco kiss and make them hormone teenagers who throw their brains away.

[@MonkeyDCeddy]

Those two ships that they murdered could've also showed two valuable life lessons. Kellco: Kelly was in a toxic on/off relationship with Tad that left her depressed and Marco lost Jackie and couldn't have Star. Him and Kelly would've showed the lesson of "There's always more fish in the sea". Just because you can't be with the person you want(Star) or used to being with(Tad) it doesn't mean you can't find happiness with someone else. It's ok to start over with someone new because you might end up having a better time with the new relationship instead of the person you wanted. Jackie was GREAT but with Kelly, Marco could kiss, go on adventures similar to Star adventures(world hopping and fighting), and in Kelly's World they literally spend HOURS just reading a book on kung fu and do a combo move that only people who are in COMPLETE SYNC can do. Tomstar: Star broke up with Tom originally because of his anger and that's very understandable BUT he later comes back and tries to be better for Star and himself. The lesson here is that sometimes it's ok to give an ex a second chance. People change after breakups and Tom is the BEST example of that.

[@carlacarrero4975]

its official Daron nefcy cant write starco and boy does it show

[@jasminguiza6227]

Sanji San When a comentar has a better direction for the show’s main relationships than the actual directors.

[@xblade149]

You know in my opinion they should've scrapped the whole love triangle and made Star Marco just friends. Hell love triangle are messy and can get on my nerves

[@Sopuliuli]

IKR

[@Datzoid]

Tom: Always tries to become better Star: tENageRS ArE DuMb

[@ella_gacha3630]

Ah yes *tenagers*

[@ella_gacha3630]

There *ten*

[@con_jer]

I have a belief that Beach Day should be the final episode of stvfoe. Its the perfect tone mix of every season, including season one, while perfectly concuding everything with an "and there were many adventures to come". Right before it, Eclipsa becomes queen with the a-ok of the people rapping up that whole leaving beach day as a sort of epilogue.

[@juliam520]

Bold of people to assume that every starco shipper was satisfied with how things went.

[@juliam520]

Notepad。txt Yep. You hit the nail on the head. I know Daron wanted to make things “realistic” but it didn’t feel realistic at all. Just heaps of drama, teasing and frustration.

[@Outplays_]

Right. I was but that ending was horrible,I was one of the hardcore ones but the ending felt rushed.

[@TVGIRL]

I mean, he mentions that how poorly they did it made starco fans disappointed to. So no one was happy with the ending.

[@angie-adriangarcia4975]

As someone who shipped them, they did a terrible job executing that. I mean at least some subtle hints in the beginning, develop during the middle, and the end have them hold hands and kiss.

[@45darkrai]

Admittedly, I dropped the show the moment Toffee died. Figured there wasn’t going to be much highs after him

[@killerfoxraspberryplays8903]

Star if he was he can’t anymore because star killed magic lol

[@nightfall598]

When I get bored I tend to multitask when watching a show, I didn’t do this for the entire first and second season, since I was aware there was a third and fourth because I figured they would tie up loose plot points. After the season 2 finale (which I found very enjoyable, but I was upset at Toffee’s death) I watched season 3 and eventually half of season 4 before stopping. Through these last 2 I’d been multitasking because I just wasn’t enjoying it anymore. Tom was getting better which I enjoyed because he truly had potential as a character, though Star got worse. Up until this point I’d been neutral about her, but through the last two seasons I started to dislike her to the point where she became the reason I stopped liking the show. Plot holes such as ‘evil Marco,’ Toffee’s connection, Marco’s monster arm and cheek marks were some of the reasons but the main ones were Toffee’s death and Star’s attitude. I feel like perhaps if they had gone with the ‘evil Marco’ aspect of it and kept Toffee alive, perhaps they could have kept Eclipsa, had her join Star (since she was perceived as evil) and Marco join Toffee (since he was perceived as good but hinted at being evil) and they could have had a battle between them without Marco using magic but using his monster arm and newly acquired sword skills from those 15/16 years in another dimension, Star could have wised up (by having to help lead a battle between good and evil and against her friend no less) and this series could have gone out with a bang! I know that this may have ruined ‘Starco’ (which I personally like) but it also could have given it a ‘star crossed lovers’ aspect. Sorry for ranting, I just feel like this show had so much wasted potential, and it all went downhill after the season 2 finale.

[@killerfoxraspberryplays8903]

Night Fall they really should have scripted together the big plot during season 1 and not written season by season because evil Marco word made to story so much better

[@nightfall598]

Raspberry Raz Plays I agree, the loose ends just made the story so frustrating and the writing season by season led to its downfall.

[@fdpsabortangdeuva7066]

I just continued watching because Tom River Eclipsa and *NACHOS*

[@trixxartarchive7705]

I can't believe they left Marco's parents they where seriously the most preciouses characters in the whole show Edit note:Thanks for all of the likes guys.

[@fatmah6097]

Ikr!

[@Nosretep]

They did when?

[@anxiousdumpling5041]

@@Nosretep When Marco moved to Mewni and completely ignored them until the baby shower

[@Nosretep]

@@anxiousdumpling5041 ...Is there any genuinely good characters in the show who hasn't done anything bad.

[@anxiousdumpling5041]

​@@Nosretep The side characters (well, he ones they didn't fuck up or only use for relationship drama)

[@TheKoopaKingBowser]

Unrelated but the early animation for Star VS The Forces of Evil looks so much better, turns out this is because the first season was made by Mercury Filmworks, animators of Hilda, Kid Cosmic, Mickey Mouse shorts, Centaurworld and The Ghost & Molly McGee.

[@xempororhxppyx]

HILDA? CENTAURWORKD? TGAMM? no wonder there was smooth animation

[@Cosmicfallsr]

Ive been thinking and saying this for years man. Back when I used to interact with the fandom I used to get flack from some people for even suggesting the animation got worse over time. Season 1 has some of my favorite animation of any show Ive ever seen. The expressions and character acting were top notch and the fight choreography was insane. the downgrade in animation is one of my biggest gripes with this show for sure. Sugar Cube's episodes in particular look awful

[@TheKaitykatz]

The excuse that teens are dumb is also obnoxious and very patronizing because it's treating teens like they're somehow not people who actually have reasons for doing the shit they do.

[@HeadbandGuy]

Exactly

[@SKOT_3]

They took the easy route, since every show frames teens as being dumb like a quick joke. Like yes a lot of people make mistakes as a teen, so do kids, and hell even adults too. It's pretty tiring to see that played out.

[@saffy771]

Yeah, it's quite upsetting. I also think it's annoying when adults think kids are stupid, even though most kids are actually very smart and often notice a lot more than we think. Same with teenagers. How do you expect teenagers to act mature and grow up if you play down their capability of decision making by just saying "teenagers are dumb". No, they're not.

[@SuperKagomefan]

r. r I think its because they were teenagers once that they can say so. Teenagers are smart, yeah, I'll give them credit but when it comes to relationships they are so impulsive. It does not help that our country promotes slut-like culture. Which isn't to say having had more than one ex is bad but having more than one at the same time or iust being an emotional mess which teenagers are often known for because they're figuring stuff out. They're coming in to themselves... People probably look back at their childhood years and probably cringe at their past and just brush it off as "i was stupid/me and my friends were stupid" = "teenagers are dumb" Honestly you will meet some that will make you think this and you might be a teenager yourself.

[@umjammerlammy9993]

People who say "No it's okay kids are stupid it makes sense" can suck a fart out my ass, kids have different social functions than adults, but they aren't dumb.

[@coreytaylor447]

"tom is based off of all of my demon ex-boyfriends" seeing as tom is a genuinely good person in the show, doesnt that speak more about her than them?

[@WobblesandBean]

LOL yuuuuuup. Explains a lot, doesn't it? She thinks it's a happy ending that her main character committed genocide on billions of sentient beings, crippled billions more, and ended human civilization as we know it, just for two fickle teenagers to hook up, whose relationship won't even last because again, fickle teenagers. Of COURSE she'd think that a genuinely good man who's level-headed is a bad guy.

[@DaDualityofMan]

Yeah, I was thinking "If you had so many boyfriends and they were all so bad, what does that really say about you?"

[@Mr_Nobody2512]

The real villain wasnt star, it was the Creator herself. And is it just me....or are we seeing a entitled future karen?

[@alexandrosmartinez508]

@@WobblesandBean Mabel almost killed Blendin in “Blendin’s Game”.

[@sketchyjulia]

@@WobblesandBean Devi’s advocate maybe she meant S1 Tom was based off of her bad ex boyfriends, but later down the line she decided to flesh him out/make him wanna be a better person. I know the show isn’t that good but it feels weird to speculate about stuff like this with the creator

[@iloveplayingpr]

The writers were more concerned with the shipping than the actual story.

[@greatestaxolotl4933]

bruh i wish they had kept marco and star relationship as just besties i think they were cuter that way

[@anumrose3762]

@@greatestaxolotl4933 I agree

[@Manas-co8wl]

Seeing the fanbase, can you blame them

[@PhoenixAce]

@@Manas-co8wl curse of kid shows

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

and that is a horrible thing to fall prey to

[@emanym464]

Star and Marco ARE the Forces of Evil!

[@spy_penguin28.5]

Hyping up Seth to be the big bad villain but giving us Mina instead is like if Gravity falls hyped up Bill Cypher only to have Gideon as the villain finale (notice how Mina and Gideon are actually good characters but you can see how bad they would be as end game villains)

[@rosesongoku6980]

It’s like offing the Night King halfway through the final season of GoT only to have Cersei and Euron replace him, and then Daenerys in the final two episodes. Oh, wait.

[@jturner2577]

@@rosesongoku6980 Night King should have been the final Boss.

[@rosesongoku6980]

@@jturner2577 I’ve been saying that for two years and counting. It made no sense to have him die before the human villains, who can’t hold a candle to the threat level he has.

[@smcphee8499]

Gideon’s a way better villain than Mina

[@samantha-uw3ky]

Star is a terrible girlfriend. Poor tom.

[@robkuro8564]

In the end, Tom and Star's relationship ended up being a good thing for them (though I still contest that it was drawn out for far too long - they had plateaued for a long time). They didn't lose a romantic partner; they gained a friend. Friendship is the most important thing for me, and it's something the show sought to emphasize, particularly in Season 4.Yes, I'll agree Star treated Tom unjustly sometimes, but it never came of as true spite.

[@samantha-uw3ky]

@@robkuro8564 No, i dont think she did it on purpose which arguably is worse. Star by the end of the series had selfish qualities and trigger tendencies that was never resolved and was even rewarded. She has her good moments but especially in relationships, she seems to be only invested if it currently alligns with what she's focused on. That means she's not a bad girlfriend due to active intentions, but she's a bad girlfriend due to character flaws she isn't all that aware of. And when someone doesn't know or doesn't understand how they're in the wrong about anything they cause more damage. Not about relationship drama-but during stars song day she reveals to the entire kingdom that she lost her book of spells to ludo because..."she couldn't write some puff piece"?...Like the good and comfort of the kingdom is less important than her public image being dishonest in her eyes. The show portrays it as her being good for being honest but I found it on par with a divorced couple telling their children its because one of them cheated. I mean her heing reckless is a staple of her character but I feel like her character quirks become serious character flaws when the show doesn't adress them all that much.

[@alphaunicorn9035]

I agree. I was especially thrown off by the part where Star got mad at Tom for not telling her he knew about her kiss with Marco. I found it rather hypocritical and instead of apologizing, she puts the blame on Tom and, for lack of a better term, plays the victim. There's nothing wrong with having characters make mistakes like that as long as it's resolved in the end, but I never felt like it was. I guess I just had higher hopes for her chatacter development

[@Gooberwares]

Yeah her and Marco will last maybe a month if they can avoid the angry humans who’s lives they uprooted

[@TheElectroUPD]

Why?

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

Tom apparently had months of character development offscreen which lead to the breakup. WTF

[@MonkeyDCeddy]

He went on an Avatar the Last Airbender level soul search while on that trip.

[@carlacarrero4975]

@@MonkeyDCeddy speaking of avatar have you heard about the Aaron ehasz wonderstorm controversy?

[@MonkeyDCeddy]

@@carlacarrero4975 No I haven't.

[@timidalchemist8475]

@@carlacarrero4975 a lot of the controversy around Aaron seems fishy. I won't jump to Danika side or even Aaron side unless we have evidence to either side. But besides the controversy, The show's fantastic in its character writing, plot and lore.

[@markersandtea]

@@carlacarrero4975 First I'd heard of it but from what I've quickly read it seems like he's a micromanager (maybe a narcissist) who only wants yes-men around him and palms his kids off on random female coworkers (which is stupid and shitty on a number of levels and also makes him an entitled parent)? Tbh it seems like good/decent (character) writers get away with being toxic and poisoning whatever workplace they're in when it comes to the cartoon industry as the norm at this point. If not they're otherwise really lazy which ultimately hurts the show (e.g. steven universe not staying to model, first season of adventure time, end of svtfoe etc).

[@frgal1336]

One thing I don’t get is that he fact that Star is shown to be as powerful as Eclipsa was when Eclipsa was Star’s age, and we know that that means Star is INCREDIBLY powerful as Eclipsa wrote most of her chapter at Star’s age. But then we see that Star consistently struggles against enemies like Ludo. But THEN it makes it seem that Star is actually STRONGER than Eclipsa as she masters wandless magic in a few years, something Eclipsa COULD NOT DO. And THEN they show that meteora is even stronger than Star, since she’s able to dip down as a baby. But meteora couldn’t be used to defeat ANY of the Solarian warriors? It makes no sense and it feels like they just refused to look at any other possibilities besides ‘magic must go’ when they wrote the ending.

[@galten7361]

I mean she is a babuu. The real question is what stopped them from using a combo of magic scissors and ultra mega dark magic blasts to kill the Solarians.

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@galten7361no no, don’t waste your time thinking of another ending that makes sense. We needed something more “climactic”, forget logic!

[@Office_chair]

​@@xempororhxppyxseriously though I'm pretty sure they went with the magic getting destroyed ending just because it would be more shocking.

[@xempororhxppyx]

@@Office_chair Agreed. they needed something “climatic” and shocking, so they pulled that out of nowhere

[@frgal1336]

@@xempororhxppyx it always baffles me, even years later seeing how badly this show fell. They had so much they could do. And went with ‘oh shit we forgot the ship, uhhh magic go bye bye, wait no it didn’t the worlds are merged now lmao, the ship is back together.’ I was about to say even steven universe managed their endings better than this but uh. Actually no, they definitely didn’t. I’d say they’re about equal.

[@Alondro77]

Season 1 and 2: building up the world. Season 3 and 4: tearing the world down. End of the show: LITERALLY tearing the world down, then taking a San Francisco plague-infested poo all over it.

[@matthewsoucy9073]

Damn

[@pastrypoodle5558]

You know, Moon is the reason why the magic dimension got corrupted in the first place. Magic would’ve been destroyed either way Because of her.

[@karissarasmussen567]

Toffee: And Moon thinks I'm the monster? Me: Shame on you Moon😔

[@musinx4433]

The funny thing is they turned her evil last second along with the hecking council yeah of course it was bad what they did in the past with the whole monster baby thing but they ruined multiple characters personalities in the last two seasons

[@Gooberwares]

Moon didn’t honor her and Eclipsa’s deal by just severing his finger.

[@SchaffrillasProductions]

Why did it take me so long to find this video haha. Amazing job. This show was WAY worse than I remember

[@BlueOrder]

Thanks so much! You're a total inspiration to me so hearing this from you means a lot. And thank you for answering my question and giving your take on the ending during your birthday livestream! I think it's a really good point that endings leave the lasting impact :)

[@22freedom33]

Wow, the algorithm brought me here only now too, both of you guys are great creators!

[@Spiffee]

Wow what’s up bro… I got drifted this way too…. (Great video btw)

[@MutatedPercent]

It's been a year and he's just finding it now? Lmao

[@istillcantthinkofaname7993]

Schaffrillas productions, I love your vids.

[@waffleauflauf4213]

About the book, Gravity Falls did something similar. There's a physical book you can buy that's basically the Third Journal that was used heavily in the show. The book had pages that were identical to the ones shown in the show, and also added on to the characters, story, lore, and worldbuilding tenfold. And it's just as funny, charming, educational, and touching as the show itself was. However, unlike SVTFOE, you didn't need the book to enjoy the show. I'd already watched Gravity Falls through multiple times before I even realized the book existed. Reading the book made the overall experience better by introducing things and building off of things you didn't get in the show, but you didn't need it. The show gave you everything you needed to both love the characters, and to understand the story it was trying to tell. It was optional, and a great purchase imo if you wanted more. It didn't borderline punish you for being in the dark if you didn't have it, and didn't leave you feeling forced to have it by feeling like you were missing out on important details.