How strong is in-lore Warrior Of Light? 「FF14」

[@n00bnetrum]

WoL with 7 adventurer friends could beat Goku (after two thousand attempts to memorize all his attack patterns)

[@yedi634]

BAHAHAHHAAHA that actualy made me burst out laughing

[@ArsMageis]

But only on Saturdays and only if that one dps remembers its raid night

[@Rhoen13]

This is the best answer hahahaha

[@FF-tp7qs]

If you are doing the normal version it would only take maybe 3 attempts tops, but that would be against kid Goku from the original series when he still thought marriage was a food

[@SuikodenGR]

😂😂

[@allison825]

Win or lose, is that Goku would HAVE FUN fighting the Warrior of Light, and that's actually the most important part.

[@miriamweller812]

No, Goku wouldn't even fight such a weak something. Sorry, but the WoL has no power but plot armor and that plot armor mainly is, that the writers just force the enemy to not do anything. So, yeah, in FF14 Goku would just stand there and let you poke him to death. That's how FF14 fights and "story" works.

[@sugoistalin7809]

@@miriamweller812 You say that as if Goku himself doesn't have massive amounts of plot armour lmao. Have you ever actually watched Dragonball?

[@eji]

I think there's definitely a difference between the player's WoL and the canon/story version of the WoL. To encourage the MMO / teamwork aspect, the game usually has you form 4-8 man groups for combat, but canonically the WoL does most things on their own, with the exception of a couple times where the dialogue indicates you get some fellow adventurers (other players) to join up for a fight. There's also a buff during some instanced fights called "Brilliant Conviction" whose description is "Breaking limits as only a true Warrior of Light could" that is an implication that narratively the WoL has unusually strong power behind them, unnatural compared to other characters. WoL has also definitely been progressively powering up since 1.0 and are exponentially stronger by Endwalker's end than they were at the beginning. Also now considering that the WoL understands what Dynamis is (something they didn't know about or consciously tapped into prior to EW), I think that would definitely be a booster to the WoL moving forward. BUT! At the risk of sounding cheesy, there's something that the game has emphasized time and time again, the power behind the WoL is not just their raw strength itself. It's also the power of their friendships. The ability of the WoL to forge bonds basically acts as a multiplier to their power and lets them conquer any challenge. The power of friendship makes the WoL a literal god-killer, lol.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

also up until the explicit summoning a lot of those sly get help remarks were english only. or in other words gags.

[@zeelyweely1590]

Well, we have a lot of evidence pointing towards you actually doing dungeons and stuff with other people; you go through the entirety of The Ghymlit Dark with Alisaie, for example, and almost every dungeon post-SB has the Scions show up with you at the end, as well as there being trusts. The only thing that's not expanded upon are how you fight those trial bosses, but it's a lot more evidence saying they DON'T do things alone rather than them doing it. It also makes a lot more sense thematically, considering the entire story is about loving the world and getting your strength from others.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

@@zeelyweely1590 that mostly happens later on. at least for trials. specifically because early bosses were primals they couldn't help with and were often time sensitive. more recent dungeons have solved this issue.

[@Azulapus]

I'd like to think that the Warrior of light, in canon just summons alternate version of them self when a challenging opponent appears

[@backslash4141]

I mean, post-shadowbringers they literally do lmao

[@zordiark9673]

@@backslash4141 To be exact, WoL does it the first Time against Hades, which is the End of Shadowbringers (not counting Post-Game, since its more or less a introduction to EW, just like any other Post-Game)

[@SuperRoboPopoto]

“Adventurer Friends” vaguely remembered Auphinaud referring to your party in quotes way early in ARR

[@Tory-JJ]

You should watch lore videos. Lol that's, more or less, what they do. They pull warriors from other realms to help then. Their friends Their ancestors. Their fellow warriors.

[@Azulapus]

@@Tory-JJ that's the vibe I always got, but it never really explicitly said it though

[@sevyn86]

Defeating Gilgamesh may be the WOL's greatest achievement. Gilgamesh defeated a Manderville, and they are the most broken god-tier characters in the game. If we could directly fight a Manderville it would be a more accurate scale, but for now that would have to do.

[@yedi634]

That's... True....... =w=

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

I mean,,golbez's wife beat both him and Greg one-shot.

[@zeehero7280]

Manderville power level is a gag though. it also only works when being silly in some way. Godbert would win a silly contest with the WOL every time for sure.

[@zeehero7280]

Manderville quests are only partially canon. the whole point of them is humor Godbert is portrayed as being stronger than anything but he actually isn't, although he certainly is quite badass.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

@@zeehero7280 Actually the Mandeville's are just plain monsters with their special oil and the secret of his wife. Their snowballs will kill unfortunate animals to be in the way. also they are all canon events.

[@Ace4573]

Scaling off of Endsinger, it could be argued that WoL is universal/multiversal if the 13 shards are universes in and of themselves. With Hydaelyn directly stating that at the edge of existence, Meteion sings the song of creation's requiem. Not only that verbatim from Endsinger "no life, no star, nor the universe itself." When it comes to Exdeath, if Omega made an EXACT replica with magic as potent (even in base form disregarding Neo-Exdeath) as FF5 that could also reinforce said point.

[@Harkmagic]

I wouldn't really use the existence of the shards to imply a multi-verse. The shards are shards of Etheirys, not the universe. The universe isn't split, just the planet.

[@Lorekeeper72]

Additionally the Endsinger's song didn't appear to affect the Shards as Ryne confirms when you visit the First during the Final Days. While the destruction of the Source would probably destroy the Shards, you can't really argue the Endsinger herself was strong enough to destroy all 13 Shards because of the nature of Etheirys.

[@atharozexistlien9617]

Endsinger same strong zamazu and black Goku fusion so pretty close to Goku super sayyin blue but no so high power. Wol 8 vs Goku. Over him Goku needed use ultra instinct to enrage 😂

[@RuneKatashima]

@@Lorekeeper72 Came here to say this and what Harkmagic said.

[@ASNS117Zero]

The shards being separate universes doesn't make sense from a story perspective. They're just parallel worlds of Etheirys, they're not at the cosmic scale.

[@Smoked_Snake]

I see the Warrior of light as the Doctor from Dr Who. a person physically "normal" being but with skills, techniques and knowledge that make the impossible possible, a true specialist in no-win situations...

[@miriamweller812]

Called plot armor and bad writing.

[@SteelSpurs]

@@miriamweller812Not at all.

[@OmegaEnvych]

I must remind that in-game we are constantly locked within one job (and role) at a time. We can't tank massive damage, deal massive damage and raise people at the same time. However in many places like Eureka, Bozja and Variant Dungeons we get abilities to do so. This made for many a headcannon that fully levelled up WoL is strong enough to do everything by themself and just chooses not to. I would put WoL comfortably at Tier 5 personally.

[@ArsMageis]

But in the Shadowbringer trailer, we see the Warrior of Light changing classes mid-fight against the angel

[@davidbujna8480]

@@ArsMageis This. The way I see it, WoL is multiclass guy, whose special ability is being able to switch jobs at whim. It's just the game technical stuff and MMO approach is making it unable to do so.

[@David_Phoenix23]

@@ArsMageisthis is what i was going to say, he went from warrior to dragoon to monk in the span of a few seconds

[@RuneKatashima]

Yeah, bro, he can job change canonically mid battle. Idk why you made this comment. Especially since, canonically, all he has to do is swap crystals. You think he can't do that if he wants?

[@zeehero7280]

Well we actually get logos actions and such there, which at least grant us the temporary ability to do so. The WOL can learn any job and do any role but not all at once. only one at a time.

[@DuoSanguis]

By her own admission, Hydaelyn says that Zodiark was stronger than her and the Sundering was her only recourse to make him manageable and stop him from consuming everyone. You could argue that her ability to divide was her ace in the hole but I'm sure it wasn't the kind of thing she could do in the heat of battle, the "No longer man will have wings to bear him to Paradise" scene always struck me as a more symbolic scene than live recollection. In a direct fight,, at full power, tall, dark and handsy would have triple-back-handed Mom into the ground.

[@DuoSanguis]

@kyeda consuming isn't the word I should've used, true. However isn't the Zodiark plan a stop-gap measure at best? The Ancients COULD NOT beat Meteion because of their very nature that prohibited them to effectively interact with Dynamis. The Sundering was an awful curse upon the people but it was also a gamble for victory and hope for the future.

[@DuoSanguis]

And I'm no saying Zodiark is a villain either, we only got our final victory because he bought us enough time to develop post sundering, just saying Venat isn't a mustache twirling villain either even if Sundering is morally ambiguous, by her own admission.

[@MamisNovaClass]

It would be a stalemate. I agree with Tier 5 maybe a Tier 4 but the WoL will scale with the enemy they fight. We see at the end of Endwalker in the last fight with Zenos that when the WoL loses all their health that they simply regain it back and powers up. Similarly Goku and saiyan blood does the same thing in a sense. So it'll just be the final fight with Zenos but replace Zenos with Goku. The WoL would struggle with even base form Goku but Goku would let the WoL level up until they were fighting at Ultra Instinct Goku and then it would just be who gets tired first. Characters like the WoL are too busted for these types of things. They're the literal definition of "I died... BUT I LIVED!" I'm not even saying the WoL is stronger than Goku what I'm saying is if you put the two in a room together that the WoL will come out casting LB3s by themselves and turn into their own raid boss casting Ultima and Zetaflare and other broken FF spells and moves. But WoL still didn't beat Goku. It was a stalemate. WoL is the ultimate Shonen Protag farming spot. An enemy you can't beat but can't beat you either. Ultimate Rival Character

[@caveman3461]

It really is hard to tell how strong WoL really is, for example just in the ShB trailer we get to see our WoL go to WoD becoming a Dark Knight and splitting the sky to walking on the moon in Endwalker like it was just another day to borderline flying as a Dragoon mid-air jumping on air to shattering mountains just from job changing and so on, there's so many features and feats that could be covered but WoL's strength pretty much lies in Dynamis same as Endsinger who uses the same energy paired with the Echo I suppose and from there it's really a matter of consistency, in Shadowbringers the WoL held the Light of an entire world inside themselves for a time and almost mastered it but came closer to breaking apart.

[@miriamweller812]

ShB trailer is a marketing lie...

[@simonmcglynn9332]

My issue with power scaling like this is that it simplifies things into raw power output, summarising many factors into basically one number. In reality, I don't think the WoL is capable of any kind of attack that would be as destructive as many of the bosses they fight are or surviving direct hits from the biggest/multiple direct hits from more standard attacks. What the WoL has is skill. It's not "I'm just better than you (stands there laughing at feeble attacks glancing off them before vapourising the enemy)", it's "I'm just better than you (meticulously and methodically dismantles opponent's fighting style, gaining insurmountable advantage before finishing the fight)"

[@Cat-sampo]

Its canon that the WoL never fails in battle (even if the players do) because of the Echo. The failures we have as players are simply the echo's precognition. Our clears of the fight where we play perfectly are the "canon" clears of those fights.

[@KrazyArrows]

The Eden verse raids…the one where you fight that giant ship. Yea…it throws a galactic blast at us while we were in space. We lived

[@RuneKatashima]

It's more akin to what Goku did in ToP. A visualization of a Galaxy but not a Galaxy itself. Eden physically moves in to it and you can see it's not that large.

[@KrazyArrows]

@@RuneKatashima exactly, they had to fight in a separate space to show how OP the WoL is Hazzah

[@zeehero7280]

I mean we also are shown to be in danger from far less at times. its not consistent and not something which can be realistically debated

[@miriamweller812]

You do get that this was just some garbage copy/paste bullshit for "I member that!" Just like whole FF14 is a hell lot of bad copy/paste of other FF games - what is an insult to these much better games.

[@miriamweller812]

@@KrazyArrows WoL is garbage and everything you do is only by plot armor = bad writing. Pretty much everything since start can easily kill the WoL, the writer just not let it happen, what becomes more and more ridiculous when not a single one of the antagonists is doing anything of all the things they could do - not even to the terrorist group Scions. Hell, Emet Selch got a fricking NEGATIVE KILL COUNTER. And that again for no reason at all. The WoL never gives a single F about the truth, it's always following the orders of his/her Führer to keep the genocide and torture going and defend the "New Reich" and Übermensch that replaced the real people it was cut out from. The fact alone that Hytlerin's plan B was to just run away and let all the shards with the ripped apart life just die again (not that it matters much, it's contantly dying and the shard WILL fail, even the source is instable and that after being healed up by the Ascians for so much already) tells everything and you people cheer for that insanity.

[@xexeed6450]

If anyone can beat Goku it's hildibrand

[@DickDynamite]

Hildy can't BEAT him.. but he can tank anything that Goku throws at him and end up stuck in the ground on the moon or something.

[@dragonmangames2523]

Nah. Godbert. Hildibrand would just gentleman his way around Goku...wait. HILDIBRAND CAN BEAT GOKU WITHOUT EVEN ATTACKING HIM?!

[@yedi634]

Based take

[@ygnizemcenia6059]

@@dragonmangames2523 Julian as well and not to mention she is a culinarian which is Goku's very known weakness: Food.

[@zeehero7280]

He would slip on a banana peel and somehow beat goku by accident that way. but he would never do it on purpose cuz he's hildy.

[@josephgregorowicz5135]

I think if we want to compare WoL to Goku, we can skip formalities and see the source of power. We see that the Dynamis controlled by the WoL is, as Zenos put it, literally “burning through the candle of your life” over and over. You are beaten within and inch of your life, only to come back even stronger. Sounds an awful lot like Goku. Side note….I think the WoL could still take Hades one on one. Hades knows who and what the WoL is. Even if he wanted to kill them, his better nature would force him to hold back. Bringing back his brethren is directly in conflict with destroying Azem. Even if he wasn’t hindered by that fact, we already defeated an unsundered. Without the auricite however, it wouldn’t have been a final defeat.

[@LunaLightstar1]

I'd like to include, btw, some of the LBIII that are canon in the history('cause WoL actually have these jobs) Dark Knight you literally cut through reality. As a Monk you punch so hard that it causes an actual explosion, as a Dragoon you literally use the power of a dragon's eye, as a Samurai you do the anime shit Not gonna talk about War hitting the ground and doing fuggin' mountains, just to destroy 'em after that. Pld materializing a fortress wall. REAPER DOING REAPER THINGS, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN THAT LB

[@sc5the]

I’ve been saying this since SHB but wol in FFXIV is one of the strongest video game characters

[@kyoai]

WoL : **Summons Emet and Hythlo** "Be pals and reduce this Goku weirdo into dust of aether." Hythlo : **Raises hand towards Emet** "Ours is the power of creation, to create and to unmake." Emet : **Snap** "There, done! I'll go back to being dead. If you wake again from my eternal slumber I'll be very grumpy." **hand-wave goodbye**

[@miriamweller812]

Overall pretty much sums up the shit writing of the game well. XD

[@Aschera]

the echo and the blessing of light are unrelated. you can only hear hydaelyn's voice if you've acquired the echo in the first place, and then "if by chance" she deems you capable (usually an adventurer) she may choose give you the blessing of light (though wol's is probably a bit more potent than usual). it's probably why minfillia and krile don't seem to have the blessing thus were relegated to non-combat roles. that said... hydaelyn most likely pulled the same stunt elidibus did to the adventurers on the first and forced the wol and many others to activate the echo.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

Not only that, she gives her chosen a boost in the form of Crystals of Light. Though at a certain point, we don’t need them. We outgrew them.

[@DLMoridin]

I think the confusion lies in that Fordola can enter the towers that appear near end of ShB and not get tempered despite having a copyed/fake echo.

[@PenguinSage]

Yeah ARR WoL got a much better blessing of light than most of her chosen. The warriors of the first got 1 crystal. We got 6. Although in the past her crystals of light were both stronger and bigger. Matoya shows us one from the 5th era I think. No way to quantify how much though.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

@@DLMoridin I think it comes down to, the echo is something you are born with. when awakened Venat casts her ward over them to protect their Aether from corruption. to her chose few she grants crystals. these are 3 separate things. therefore the resonant are either being gifted the same ward or the process of being made resonant is copying both Krile's echo and her Venat given protections.

[@DLMoridin]

@@TGPDrunknHick the echo is kinda weird anyway. Elidibus establishes that souls that were there at the original end of days can be triggered to awaken to it from seeing similar iconography. illusion magics or pulling in a big enough nearby asteroid apperently. our echo lets us predict movements, like fordola's fake,i think understand languages and see the past. Venat demonstraits the ability to use aether to see the past as well. Krile state's hers allows her to understand the meaning/intention of things spoken to her. Fordola and Zenos might count as being tempered during the process to make their fake echo, since it dose mess with their aether. Though he also supposedly had visions of the end of days in dreams even as a kid. Mikoto can see the future. about the only thing so far that is consistant with the echo is they get hydalyns answer machine when it happens, some kinda protection blessing.

[@SanityIllusions]

The echo doesn't grant anti tempering effect, that's granted by the blessing of light for major spoiler reasons.

[@_Yomoholo_]

actually its dual protection, the echo protects the wol in an offence is the best defense sort of the way. the power of your aether vs that of the primal your fighting. whereas the blessing is entirely defensive in its nature.

[@klausnurion103]

Well, it's safe to assume that the strongest sundered character we will ever-know inside FF14 lore is Louisoix. In fact, he was so strong that he could easily warp a fullparty of warrior of lights through time and space and face a full-angered 100% colossal creature with prayers of thousand of lost wyrms over centuries. I'd say that Dala-Bahamudt is a self-equivalent of what Hydaelyn is in the Aetherial Sea (the weakest version of Hydaelyn). -> I'm not powering-up scale by expansion, but rather by destructive power. But again if we talk about the unsundered/ancient characters, Venat/Hydaelyn, Emet-Selch, Azem, Hythlodaeus and Elidibus, they are pretty fucking strong (stronger than any mortal-being we know so far) and probably stronger than WoL until Lv 90-ish. Most of them would require a party of 8 WoL to defeat. Althought I haven't seen them using any insane-power to destroy an entire living-planet, only Meteion has showing this so far, and I can imagine that she does that by manifestating Dynamis (which is like an ultra-instinct version of energy in the game). So... answering your question, does ANY of these characters can beat Goku? The answer is... no Simply put, the power scale of Goku's SSJs versions are still beyond anything we have in the game so far...

[@ashslaa]

There is also Bahamut and the multi part coil quests, that well spoilers, but it links FFxiv to before a realm reborn. And oh boy, Bahamut even broke the 4th wall as shown when by what it said on any attempt to log into the servers of FFxiv online after they closed it down. (can't recall off the top of my head the exact message, does any one out there remember?) Glad they took the gamble and relaunched as realm reborn, but yeah Bahamut, so powerful he even left a mark on the 4th wall. ^_^ Special shout out to the Alexander! ^_~

[@yedi634]

wow I need to re-read that raid tier... (Shout-out to Alexander)

[@filipvadas7602]

The various powerups and literal power of friendship definetly muddy the waters But you're forgetting one important fight that proves how strong the WoL is on their own: The final fight against Zenos in Endwalker. That fight is a full 1v1 with just the the two beating the crap out of each other. No powerups, no allies and most importantly the WoL is genuinely *tired* after the fight. Like Zenos, they drop to the ground so exausted they can't even stand. So we just have to figure out how strong Endwalker Zenos is and we can assume the WoL is *slightly* stronger than that. Now, assuming that on his own Zenos is stronger than he was in Stormblood and that the powerup from Shinryu carried over to after the Endsinger's defeat , we can safely say that he's significantly stronger than he was when he fought him at the end of Stormblood. Basically making him a potentially world ending calamity like Bahamut. (Note that Shinryu was compared to Bahamut, but its implied it wasn't on the same level due to Bahamut at his peak literally being infused with the collective thousands of years of wrath of the Dragons trapped in Dalamud in order to sustain him. However, I have no trouble believing that, given time, Shinryu could also do an insane amount of damage to the entire world) Now, sure, this is mostly speculation as we unfortunately don't get to see Endwalker Zenos do a whole lot But, yeah, if I had to guess I'd be pretty comftorable in saying that the WoL is a *Planet Level* character Again, with no powerups or friends to help. With them ,however, I can 100% see them jumping to universal level feats.

[@yedi634]

I'm thinking that reaper zeno's is probably relative to wol w/o azem, shinryu form zeno's beats no azem wol but azem wol beats both ver. I wouldn't be surprised if wol pulls of a universal feat when under pressure honestly.

[@miriamweller812]

It's just garbage writing, that's all. The WoL will always win in FF14 because that's what the writers decide to happen, no matter how stupid and absurd it is. In case of Goku you at least get a reason and as absurd as Shonen mangas like that are with their endless power up, Goku was shown as a powerful being since the very start. The WoL just farts their pants meanwhile and is overall just stabbing stuff, never shown any reasonsable power beside that ShB trailer, that was simply a lie that never actually happened. In FF14 WoL would win against Goku, because Goku would just stand there, got no powers at all, no speed, no strength, nothing and you would poke him until he's death, because that's what the FF14 writing is. If you take it seriously, then the WoL would just go splat without even seeing anything. And that not just against Goku, but also against Ascians, Garlemald and majority of other enemies which all only lose because the shit writing demands it, not because there is actually any reason.

[@poillus]

My head cannon is that the power fluctuates a lot depending on the adversary. The WoL is intrinsically way stronger against primal and primal-like threats due to the blessings of light. He's no slouch against other things, but only a very strong dude against more mundane threats like Zeno. Zeno's mistake was to powerboost, thus making us able to use the blessings powers.

[@yedi634]

I think so too. Like in DT the whole concept of it is like we taking a break after all the heavy saving the world stuff. In the trailer it looked like wol was fighting a normal beast with Viper and he looks like he's having fun. If we're being fair to em he could probably deletes that beast out of existence but he helded back.

[@davidbujna8480]

Except that the Blessing of the Light, doesn't realy give us power boost. It is merrely a defensive measure against having users aether being corrupted. And even then it is not 100% impenetrable, after all combined light aspected either of Lightwardens nearly did us in.

[@poillus]

@@davidbujna8480 The blessing of light is rather fluid in strength. I like to think that Venat made it as such that it is a hero's tool, but can't be used as a tyrant's tool.

[@zeehero7280]

We don't need the blessing of light. We defeated nabriales without it at all, and didn't get any of it back until halfway through heavensward.

[@zeehero7280]

@@davidbujna8480 The Echo is actually the defensive measure. and that is something far older than Hydaelyn or Zodiark.

[@josephrichardson7254]

Honestly it's hard to wrap my head around the WoL being at a planetary level, let alone universal or multi dimensional. Yes, they've beaten the goddess that was able to split the planet into thirteen dimensions (?), and the Endsinger which single handedly (wingedly?) brought the end of countless planets, theoretically the entire universe with Hydaelyn being the last planet left which is almost did in twice, and have been able to contend with beings from other that were summoned/ can travel between dimensions. But at the end of the day with the Echo and Dynamis, it feels like the WoL is just real durable, and strikes at the "core" of the enemy they're fighting. The best example is Bahamut, we don't fight the deity that was summoned and able to destroy the planet, but the soul; a smaller manifestation of a weird dimension that is no doubt very powerful, but something that's at our scale that we can deal with. With the Azem crystal this is multiplied at least twenty three times, making it easier to deal with these threats in this way. TL;DR it's hard to imagine as strong as she is, my WoL cracking Etheirys in two with their axe as magnificent as it would be. But with the way they handle threats, maybe that could be beat Goku, he is just one, normal sized target.

[@maplebacon2724]

the action economy is f'd

[@erulogos]

The WoL's main ability is still via the Echo, which in addition to granting psychic flashbacks and Spidey Sense on steroids is also a budget Dr. Strange using the Time Stone. The Echo is the justification for how whenever you lose, you didn't really lose, you just saw a failed timeline and learned from it, until you found a path that was successful. So if there is any chance for the WoL to win, the Echo means they will find it. Combined with their relatively strong connection to Dynamis and seeming ability to use that to create a path to victory where there might not have been one before, and you get a character that can punch way above their weight class.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

@@erulogos I see this tossed around a lot but I've never seen a source on it. Where does the lore state this? Either way I think WOL vs Goku would be more like our first two fights with Zenos. We'd fight for a bit until Goku decides he doesn't want to hold back anymore and then get one shot. Sure the WOK beat Meteion and Hydalyn. But for Hydaelyn the sundering seems to be more of a magical metaphysical ability and not an indication of how hard she can punch or how hard of a punch she can take. And with Meteion she wasn't able to wipe out life on planets because she punches hard but because her song could induce despair to warp people into monsters. Not all power translates directly into how powerful someone is in a fair 1 on 1 fight and the power scaling of being able to casually destroy planets if they wanted to in late Z/Super makes it so I don't really think anything in FFXIV could compare in a 1 on 1 fight.

[@ASNS117Zero]

@@erulogos That sounds less like a budget Dr. Strange and more like a budget Yhwach. o_o The real answer to this question is that the devs never gave this concept any real thought. Simple as.

[@Deode-d4h]

I mean, we could go the attack potency/destructive capacity split argument. In pure AP we could be planetary/the power level you think we're at, but in terms of destructive capacity not very impressive, maybe a city or two with Black Mage LB3 or higher if we actually summon a meteor from outside the star's orbit.

[@206Zelda]

Conventionally the WoL can't defeat Goku or a Saiyan. However it was never stated that we had to defeat Goku in a physical fight. Goku's motivations are what prompt combat to begin with, and although we are weaker in combat, we not only can anticipate moves but we can also access an arsenal of skills that ignore bodily limitations such as BLU. Some of those abilities are so broken that a target's health is depleted automatically by half in some cases, or even DOOM-spelled or petrified. This is if we had to actually fight him. We could try beating him in an eating contest; there's no limit of food the WoL can consume and no cooldown. It's a tall order, but it's a different kind of competition. Goku may not even fight us if we proffer any challenge other than a physical fight, but it's worth a try. If you intrigue him or entice him with a challenge, and he's encouraged from other sides, it may be enough to convince him to try.

[@kaihedgie1747]

If the Warrior of Light can defeat an emotional being capable of eroding an entire universe and is able to best an extradimensional machine that assimilates entire realities to buff itself up, what makes you think they can't beat one monkey man? Especially when they've even beaten the guy he was based off of?

[@Luna-Starfrost]

I think the WoL's powerlevel is just heavily depending on which part of the story you are at? A Realm Reborn and Heavensward, you are really not more than.. Well, a strong person with a buff that gives you a slight edge aboth others. In Stormblood, not too much came to it, except the experience you gained from the wars you fought. Still, a very strong person with a strong blessing. Shadowbringers you go rise up to much more, first of all after what you been trough, which surely hardened you, but second of all, you merge with one of the other Azem splinters: Ardbert. This increases your power by an absolute huge lot. With it, you are basicly at 2/13 of your "potential" power, given that there are 11 shards of Azem left that could theoretically merge with you and taking it that every shard is as powerful as we are. In Endwalker, the WoL might be one of the most powerful beings in the whole Final Fantasy multiverse? I mean, a creature that keeps coming up as a sort of "Super-Boss" is Shinryu which also travels dimensions and can bring their end. Zenos which himself is probably one of the most powerful beings ever, without hesitation just absorbed Shinryu. And merged with him, WoL could beat him. I think that alone, ranks WoL very very high up.

[@definitelynotaweeb6879]

Each calamity rejoined the entire population, so Ardbert fusing with us made us jump from 8/14ths to 9/14ths

[@Luna-Starfrost]

@@definitelynotaweeb6879 Point still stands

[@redjoker365]

Nitpick: Estinien doesn't have either of Niddhogg's eyes anymore, but rather as a result of his transformation has had many of Niddhogg's powers and memories imprinted on him. He's basically the most powerful a heretic could hope to be

[@acgearsandarms1343]

To be fair, it isn’t a matter of strength, but rather defying the odds. The WoL is always fighting stronger foes and comes out on top. So I don’t think measuring of power alone is an accurate form of measurement in a “who wins” scenario. Perhaps the Warrior of Light could be the most powerful player character of the FF series.

[@yedi634]

oh I deffinitely agree. Because of how they write wol I wouldnt be surprised if wol could be higher when the pressure is on. The point of this video is to gauge how strong he is based on what he had done so far.

[@acgearsandarms1343]

@@yedi634 Well in that case, I’d say powerful enough to slay demonic entities and aliens of a similar caliber. Most fantasy creatures of such stature. Which I’d say is fairly good. So I’d say a fair chance to beat Goku in a fight. But depends on the rules of the fight. Kill Goku? Not really.

[@TheAsj97]

@@acgearsandarms1343If by fair chance you mean 0%, then yes. Goku is literally universe level at the bare minimum, that means he could destroy the universe, and that's just his attack power, he's also got higher durability than the universe, which means the WoL would have to literally be able to destroy the universe in one attack in order to even have a chance of scratching Goku, and I'm not even gonna get started on his speed. The only way Goku loses is if he wants to lose, since he can suppress his power level down to the WoL's level.

[@christianrivera1708]

@@TheAsj97 stop glazing goku XD Goku has been taken out by less powerful attacks, killed with punches and kicks and sent brought to his knees by ki blasts that dont even destroy an entire mountain. The only thing Goku has is hella statements that have never been proven in the decades of the shows existence. "Goku's punches are strong enough to destroy the universe!" *said by a character that sips tea all day and is know to be an idiot.* Goku and company fight literally every couple of episodes and nothing gets destroyed other then some rocks. Any and all powerscaling has been done by fans which is almost entirely speculation and STATEMENTS which is not proof or feats. Not saying Goku isnt strong but saying you need to be able to destroy a multiverse in one hit to even SCRATCH him is MASSIVELY dick riding a character that loses every other fight hes been in because hes not as strong as his opponent.

[@RuneKatashima]

This logic also applies to Goku. Also, Lightning will probably forever remain the most powerful FF playable character, as she's the only one that actually kills God. And she does it solo.

[@mrsonicedge]

As a Lalafell, I think I can take on Goku.

[@_Yomoholo_]

- its physically impossible for there to have been other adventurers aiding the wol against king thordan, as the only people who could have been on on Asys-La would have been thordan and his knights, the garleans, and the scions. so its pretty safe to say that the wol Merced Thordan oh their own. unless we want to assume that before the fight with thordan the wol ran all the way back to Cid flew all the way to ishguard, to pick up some allies, then they flew all the way back to fight thordan. -power scaling the wol is challenging because the power scaling in game is inconsistent, the wol might be a complete wrecking ball killing multiple dozens of enemies with ease in one cutscene, and then in the next will be backed into a corner by five enemies. despite this we do have the Stormblood and Shadowbringers cutscenes to go off which seem to suggest that the wol has the power to split the sky with a single attack. considering this something like town level (tier 7) is likely the most accurate. this is because the player during the lv 90 alliance raid can face tank a meteor, and during the normal raid manages to face tank ultima as well, implying that the wols durability has considerably improved since arr. (however in game feats of strength are considerably rarer than the in game feats of durability. ) even so a lv 90 warrior of like is able to both cast and tank meteor.

[@3creps]

One thing I like is thinking that the azem crystal is part of the wols power, we do use it a lot to get numbers, but in the end we are basically azem, so we're just using our powers to summon 7 more equally powerful beings as us

[@OldManInternet]

It's basically impossible to properly quantify. YoshiP has stated that the WoL is weaker than Guts from Berserk, which instantly removes a power level even approaching Goku from the conversation. It's reasonable to assume the WoL has grown since this statement was made, but likely not by the orders of magnitude required for this comparison to work. There are instances where the WoL channels incredible power to accomplish great feats, but there are also instances of them getting beat by pretty mundane opponents, such as being unable to overcome guards. Even a character like Ran'jit was too much for the WoL to handle. The most impressive feat the WoL had would probably be dealing with Meteion, who was a planetary threat. But that also involved the channeling of dynamis into the WoL, similarly to Goku receiving energy for a spirit bomb, AND it required a group to do, so it's not a reliable guage by itself. The trial vs Hydaelyn can't really be used either, since it was a test from a significantly more powerful being at the end of their existence who ultimately wanted to lose, and saved their strength to pass on. And this was also accomplished by a group. Zodiark was similarly in a weakened and broken state, and STILL required a group to beat despite wanting to die. And there's nothing to indicate that the WoL, being fractured, could have beaten ancients like Hades or Elidibus alone, especially considering the Ran'jit battle took place not long before the Hades fight in the grand scheme of things. Zenos was the most powerful opponent the WoL beats in single combat, but nothing he did ever approached even Raditz level. The WoL has remarkable and interesting skills that make them very powerful in their verse. But just based on the WoLs lack of speed feats alone (the WoL has never even managed anything supersonic) there's nothing to indicate that a battle between the WoL and Goku would end up being anything more than Goku launching what would seem like an instantaneous attack on the WoL, who would then get launched through some nearby terrain until they finally come to a stop buried in a mountainside. I could see the nature of the WoL's power giving them the chance to potentially survive that (via things like the blessing of light and dynamis), but there's nothing offensively relevant the WoL could ever do to impact Goku in a meaningful way. Edit: Upon reflecting on this, I did manage to gloss over the fact that the WoL does manage a few supersonic speed feats in the Stormblood and Shadowbringers trailers. So while ultimately this doesn't change anything, I don't want to be disrespectful to the WoL. It's simply a problem of even Sayian saga Goku still being beyond these levels of power.

[@ASNS117Zero]

Source on the YoshiP statement about Guts? Because that doesn't make even a tiny smidgeon of sense, WoL had better feats than Guts since ARR.

[@OldManInternet]

@@ASNS117Zero It was in an old translated interview. I can try and find it, but it might take a bit. I want to say it was a Game Watch interview around Heveansward before Fan Fest

[@zeehero7280]

We were weaker than guts in ARR. probably not since then. Guts would have no reason to fight us, but in a spar we'd trounce him at this point, and quickly.

[@ASNS117Zero]

@@zeehero7280 It's been a hot minute since I've seen or read Berserk, so maybe I'm forgetting something. But I'm pretty sure Guts can't bring down a four story tall metal giant with his bare hands? The WoL can do that during the course of ARR. Against multiple at the same time, in fact.

[@OldManInternet]

@zeehero7280 For sure, I wasn't saying that Guts could beat Endwalker WoL. It just establishes a baseline for what level of feat beating something like Ifrit or the recreation of Bahamut is in ARR, and that helps establish the scaling on future feats.

[@thejellygamer6525]

If we're talking about Strength i think it best to say the while the Wols AP is nothing noticible his durability should be more considered as with the help of Ryne the Wol was able to fight despite a worlds wroth of corrupting light for a large period of time "from the abduction of the crystal exarch to the end of amoruts dungeon" this means the Wol was up and fighting despite an energy force of around 10^32 joules actively killing them, is able to take major environmental catastrophes from the six elemental Primal's[these are there extreme variants i consider these cannon as they came from actuals characters and not the mistrial] (Fire Danger Level: Extreme-ifrit, a 9 magnitude earthquake-Titan Ef rating 5-Garuda A TS5-Rahmu, A TIS Grade 5- Leviathan, don't know about shiva could be a little ice age (LIA)), a energy equivalent of two Pluto's clashing onto themselves, as of 6.5 survives reality ripping attacks directly and indirectly from zeromus conformed from the loparites at the end. and if we go situational with the final DT dungeon (SPOILIERS!) we had to leave our body to fight the final bass something akin to what the Crystal Exarch did with the scions as of the 85 dungeon we could fight inhibited in the statsosphere , and we could assume the ultima from Athena which may be equal to Ultima weapons "Ultima", for speed Wol has dodged lighting for raumh at the low end and evaded light speed attacks from Cloud of darkness, Sophia, Hydalin and endsinger at the high end.

[@cali4806]

WoL has literally the thickest plot armor imaginable

[@Confused_Master]

Mind you, the WOL has a feat of strength where they literally block attacks the likes of which are town level threats at least, and can press on with little fatigue. I'd say reasonable, they can be a rank 6-A. They bay not level a town in one swipe, but they could for sure solo the full armed population of a city and a army all lined up and live to tell the tale. Plus if we go full flat out, they were fatigued from fighting the endsinger and fought Zenos at his full strength, expending every last ounce of aether/life energy in their system to do so by fortune of the button teleporting them away. If they arent powerful, they are at least durable with inhuman levels of endurance.

[@Arkansym]

This is an interesting take. I always saw WoL as Tier high 10, or low 9 at the absolute most on account of the fact the abilities they have are never more than minor explosions. Rather, a lot of the attacks thrown their way are based on Aether, which there's a lot of ways to counter. Such as raising ones fire resistance by attuning certain types of aether. Glamours are just aether too, which we can even glamour our attacks. Nothing says enemies cant either, such as making them look like planets.

[@MeltyVampire]

Im pretty sure the tier 2 scaling come from stuff like surviving Raid attacks like Eden stuff where she blows up a galaxy or something. But personally I prefer mountain level at the very least because of stuff like blocking Susano'o's blade. The rest of the battles can be attributed to the power of friendship so we cant really honestly say they were 1v1 fights.

[@zeehero7280]

The entire concept of power levels and who would beat who is silly. unless theres a massive difference in ability in all aspects, it will always come down to situational/narrative demands. Still I doubt we could beat Goku. lol. Well it depends, goku at what point. Goku began relatively weak and became insanely overpowered with training.

[@hallvarx]

Great video, and I must say I love the accent

[@yedi634]

hawaaaaa thank youuuuuuu!! I've always hated my accent =w=

[@Zerosenpai25]

Another thing to consider is that shown in the shadowbringers trailer that the WOL is able to change jobs mid battle so even if goku were to throw powerful attacks his way he could literally switch to a tank job, take the hit with mitigation, switch to a healer to patch himself back up and then switch to a dps job to keep fighting. Not to mention that all tank jobs give him a ability that literally makes him not die to most attacks so as long as goku doesn't try to use something like gts universal spirit bomb or something even stronger the WOL can literally take anything he throws at him

[@zeehero7280]

I can't believe you're taking trailers as canon material. lol. this whole debate is stupid.

[@Zerosenpai25]

@@zeehero7280 might be that the debate is stupid in general but i don't care. I just put a point of discussion on the table to engage in the conversation. If you don't like my point then so be it

[@rexcyjones9416]

Goku becoming his own Ultimate raid ending up becoming friends with WoL 😂

[@ddbs9415]

I love your video! Great analysis 😊

[@jezen0227]

Omg I've been talking about this theme with my FC recently love the lore of FF14

[@flygonkerel781]

meteion threw planetoids, but they were NOT the size of planets. you can easily tell this by Thancreds size in comparison to the planetoid

[@yedi634]

Yep, I did call them planetoids. Maybe even smaller than planetoids but I don't know the word for it :p

[@MissKashira]

I find it so weird that people think the Azem crystal is THAT powerful. It's basically phone-a-friend. While being able to summon 7 fighters of similar strength to your side at any time is a useful ability, it actual lowers our powerlevel because some previous 8-man fights we were done canonically alone. I'd argue our greatest strengths are the Echo, the ability to see how a fight will go and devising a better plan (a power so strong we could only counter it being used against us with an echo jammer) and the ability to wield dynamis, a nebulous power that can do literally anything the plot needs it to (the tank is just atmosphere now).

[@yedi634]

I've always thought that the Azem crystal summons heroes from the Aetherial sea when we need em. Some people in the comments even said something like They think it's summoning other warrior of 🕯️ from different planet of existence so my thought process was like. 1 wol is crazy. Now think about 8 of em beating the crap out of you.

[@MissKashira]

@@yedi634 When G'raha does a summoning spell he summons heroes throughout time and space which is different from Azem's summoning spell, but it's still just a summoning spell, even if we're calling 8 people of equal strength to ourselves, Themis was able to do that too, while using his magic for other things at the same time. The ability to call 7 friends of equal strength isn't as extremely overpowered as people treat it as, in earlier raids we either handled things alone and those other seven fighters canonically didn't exist or we grabbed some fishing buddies (one of the texts really does say that). I'd argue being able to beat a universe destroying being to death with the power of thoughts and prayers was a WAY stronger ability. Theoretically, there should be nothing we'd be unable to do with that kind of power. In that moment we were functioning the way I imagine a god would, deriving strength through worship and being able to channel it for one's own ends.

[@davidbujna8480]

@@MissKashira Themis only created illusions based on your aether to help you, not calling int full fldge warriors or allies. So by lore you could say you did the first circles solo, dunno about the final four, I think you went in with Azems crytal.

[@ASNS117Zero]

See, I just see it as a game mechanic - especially in light of how they've gone back into older content and made it solo. In story, we're fighting these things alone unless there's a cutscene specifically involving named characters.

[@Astoria_Varanus]

I feel the need to make a mention of rath games, and their attempts to solo the entirety of ffxiv. As I recall he beat nidhogg alone.

[@Artahe]

So, about the Exdeath feat, if I remember correctly, Nero stated at one point to Omega that yeah, he did reproduce exact replicas of those legendary villains, however, these replicas didn't have the cunning and smarts that the originals had. In other words: it seems that yes, the Neo-Exdeath we fight in the Omega Raids is as powerful as the original, so has the same power output potential, HOWEVER, and this is an important caveat, it didn't have the same behaviour as the original, so it could be argued that it didn't go as far in terms of power output as the original, simply because it just went through the motions. So, while he may be as strong as the original, can we say that it showed its maximum power? That is up for debate. Here's where I humbly disagree and think that the Endsinger fight shows him at a 3B (multi-galaxy level) at worst, and a 3A (Universal) at best: the simple fact that the fight exists. Now, here's the thing: having the Scions help protect the WoL during her ultimate attack DOESN'T LOWER the tier that they belong in. It would in much lower tiers, for example a group of tier 9, say 9A (small building level) could potentially defeat a Tier 8B character (City Block level). However, when we get in tiers so massives like tier 3 and 2, where even the difference between a same tier (3B for multi-galaxy to 3A for universal) is so mindbogglingly ginormous, it's pretty impossible to realistically argue that a lower tier would actually do ANYTHING against it. Meaning that a Tier 4, no matter which part of the tier, would be powerless against a Tier 3, even the weaker version of a tier 3. So, for the Scions to be able to conjure a shield protecting the WoL, their output HAS to be in the same tier. Perhaps not in the same category, but DEFINITELY in the same tier. And given that it's pretty obvious the Warrior of Light is way stronger than they are, while still being in that same tier, having him lower than tier 3 doesn't make much sense to me. Now, I don't think he's tier 2, because nothing in the story shows that he has the power to impact the multiverse. Whether or not the Exdeath we fought had the same power output as the original, the fact remains that he never SEEMED to use the full power of the original Exdeath, which makes this feat questionable. What's not questionable is that the Endsinger's power output threatened the entire universe, and the simple fact that we could tank it, with everything I've explained, also shows that the WoL is universal, so tier 3A, in my opinion at least. Could he beat Goku? No, but the fight would be fun. But, in the scope of the franchise, he is among the strongest protagonists.

[@arachineatzeer7478]

Counterpoint on the Nero comment to Omega, the Kefka reproduction in the next section of the Omega Raids it is about as cunning in a combative sense as the og was as Nero had to look out for the slightest of tells for us in O8, but it's more interesting he's able to trick the Echo at least enough to throw WoL off the first couple of times or until Nero was able to work out the tells and informs them

[@Artahe]

@@arachineatzeer7478 Oooh, I forgot about that. So, basically, the Kefka we face is just as strong as the real one. Which means, by the time we face Endsinger, we are magnitudes stronger than Kefka.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

honestly I feel like power leveling isn't a concept for the WOL really. I think it's more like their determination and will allows them to elevate themselves to a level they have a chance of actually suceeding in their tasks. it's plot power but, not a guarantee of victory. just that their personality and dynamis allows them to essentially force the universe into giving them the possibility of victory no matter how unlikely.

[@Tyrth_Thegamer]

In cannon WOL also beat back a fucking seed of destruction, one of the OP things created by the gods of the drakengard universe to destroy WHOLE REALITIES

[@petrusspinelli6661]

Im telling you, If Goku stands in an open circular arena and has markers for his attacks, he got no chance

[@SergirothGames]

If the heart of Sabik predates the Sundering, does that mean that it is sundered and that we could find it another 13 times?

[@rexex345]

clarification on echo, your description isn't quite right but close enough it doesn't matter too much. Echo does give precognition, though its more accurate to say we're actually reading our opponents mind, or at least the aether they subconsciously mark on the world around us by their intensions, it's also how we see memories and understand languages regardless of where we are. The immunity to tempering is the blessing of light specifically which is an actual warding spell cast upon us that prevents us from having our aether from being corrupted from outside sources like primals.

[@rexex345]

Can add onto this, you can even tell the difference in narrative in Heavensward because the blessing is tied to the crystals of light which are dulled by midgardsomr while we retain the echo throughout that period. It's also worth noting that there might actually be some level of enhancement going on with the blessing as we have 6 crystals whereas based on what we see with the warriors of darkness, they each have a single one, (granted this could also simply be because the source WoL is rejoined and might require more crystals to support the ward. We're even able to bring down an Asian prime that consists of a paragon so we're at least at this point able to handle something close to an ancient... That being said, lahabrea has very much been psychologically broken by Athena at this point, and Igeyorhm isn't exactly on an incredibly high level either... And we don't have the capability at the time to completely wear them out.

[@rexex345]

I will say, I do get the feeling the levels in-game do actually have a tangible scale to them, not in raw power, it seems to be more in expertise, most average soldiers are lv35 while we basically complete our conventional training at Lv70, after that we're functionally learning or even crafting new techniques or improving on what we've already learnt, which would imply that lv70 represents a person who has mastered a craft... That does itself complicated things as it means that just cause someone is high level does not mean they're necessarily stronger physically or metaphysicaly. Based on the story, we're functionally already a living WMD by the time we attack the praetorium, hell canonically it seems we basically single handedly slaughtered our way through the fortress like some slasher film, and afterwards we're literally often asked into a room to be an implicit threat to the other party. We just lacked the experience to hone that strength into something effective. By the point we reach shadowbringers, we've literally come from a battlefront where we ransacked the front lines (actually, side note: the trust system actually gives us a pretty good indicator of relative strength cause no matter what class or role you are, trusts only do a collective 10% of the overall damage. This means that for trust hydaelyn, where it's closer to 15-20% we're still at least 32 times stronger than any of the scions who themselves are likely stronger than normal people by a margin.

[@rexex345]

That therefore means for any fight we use the Azem manifestation spell, it would likely require somewhere in the order of 2500 soldiers to do (assuming the scions are maybe 10x as strong as a normal adventurer or soldier. To put it in perspective, if we can assume that garlemald also follows Roman military structure all the way down, the WoL is equivalent to ~5% of an entire legion on their own. That's terrifying considering they probably aren't able to ever dedicate a that much to a single target and hope to win a battle. And that's him at Lv70 expertise. But then you factor in endsinger and you realise, by the end of endwalker he's likely reaching the peak of what any person can do, and is definitely strong enough that an entity like that isn't necessarily a threat.

[@grip7777]

WoL is as strong as it needs to be is my feeling after dawntrail. I dunno if we lost power after the endsinger lore-wise but valigarmanda or robot incoorporated should not be a problem at that point if we go by powerlevels. This is why we are as strong as the story requires us to be, if a bandit gang is supposed to be a problem then they are, if the endsinger is supposed to be somewhat beatable then she is. It's either that or the WoL is some omnipotent observer that steps in in a smaller way when people can resolve their own problems or in a bigger way when it's not going well, so basicly a dickish god that does their own thing.

[@bru4773]

I do think that endgame WoL is a planet level character, but i dont actually think they would be capable of destroying a planet by themselves purely off of their own power, azem crystal or not. They just dont have the actually attacks to do that. Definitely could blow up a town though. Black Mage would probably make it pretty easy. Could probably take a whole country, though itd take a while. I dont think any army could stop them. I still say theyre planet level though, because they could probably defeat many in that tier. We know that Omega could destroy planets, and we beat him, after all, even when he was going as all out as possible. WoL doesnt have massive attack power, rather, they have god-like damage reduction. There are many attacks that should raze entire cities to the ground and theyll do, what, less damage than a melee class recovers with Second Wind? We can even tank the original version of the Ultima spell created by Athena's studies of the heart of sabik, all without Moms help. Im not actually sure whether Athena's Ultima is stronger than the Ultimate Weapon's Ultima, but it seems like it would be? So yeah, i dunno. The WoL isnt called a godslayer for nothing.

[@leandroribeiro3626]

I strongly disagree with planetary or above level because their enemies begin able to do it doesnt mean they could. By that I mean, Hydaelyn could in theory destroy a planet and the endsinger can squeze the life out of planets on a whim but those planet/galaxy obliterating attacks WOULD destroy us easily and instantly, we just survive it because we dodge the attacks or push ourselves to the limit to just survive it. Having said that, this video really put into perspective the size of the feats the wol can accomplish. I would put the WoL at a comfortable mid tier 4.

[@t.g.3415]

While I get that the point of the video is to first of all entertain, and then to pose a brainteaser kind of question... Going against Goku is, I feel, misguided. And I'm not saying it as a fanboy but - consider these 2 points: - Goku was already (before mastering Ultra Instinct) capable of shattering galaxies with his punches. Not countries, not continents, not planets or solar systems - galaxies. It's specifically stated in his fight VS Beerus when he reached SSJ God level that his and Beerus' punches were shaking the galaxy - Aside from his destructive power (which, after Ultra Instinct, grew exponentially), he reached speeds WoL cannot even imagine, much less counter. From defensive POV - WoL might have the Echo and might see what's going ahead - but knowing what is going to happen and being fast enough to react to it are two different things - and Goku's speed (especially in Mastered Ultra Instinct) is both defensive and offensive boon. And let's not forget that Goku is a martial artist master. WoL has plenty of experience in a fight, but not the kind that Goku has. For WoL, fighting VS threats is a team effort (Azem's crystal serves that exact point, as it calls heroes from beyond the rift), whereas Goku tends to be the hero that finishes off the threat alone - sure, he has a team too, but his team only serves to underline Goku's power by showing the difference between him and his team - Yamcha dies, Goku is tickled by the enemy for instance. At most, one could say Goku has one "help" and that is Vegeta. For those reasons, I don't think those two can even be compared. They live in vast universe of difference power scaling-wise. WoL is strong - possibly strongest in our FFXIV world. He makes imperials shudder and all those who would threaten the peace of Eorzea would think twice in his presence. But that is just one world. Goku tackles galaxies, universes even - Tournament of Power literally pitted him against omniversal champions - and he came on top. Strongest in the omniverse. Thus, this isn't even a question. Sure, it's fun to consider but - there's no question to be had.

[@ocruz9797]

Great idea for a video 🔥 1 small critique I have is that Guts from Berserk is not a shonen character. He’s seinen. Would love to see another video like this

[@Sivrn-Val]

Another thing to take into account is the fact that WoL is only eight times rejoined. So a fully rejoined WoL/Azem would be much stronger.. Also, its been established that every Gilgamesh aside from the Type-0 one are the same one.

[@Cordjacke]

*Spoiler Alert*: If I got this right, the WoL is a former Ascian called Azem shattered into fractions with the ability to summon his "fractions" (in form of other players). For example in raids it's actually not 32 different characters instead they're all fractions of Azem. And Azem (or the "rank" of it) was I think the most powerful Ascian in terms of combat. So if this' correct he ez claps Emet (at full potential)

[@darkseraph2009]

Close. Not all Warriors of Light have the soul of Azem. We've seen others, such as Ysale, Ardbert's allies, and technically, Hildibrand.

[@_Yomoholo_]

@@darkseraph2009 what you said, firstly there isn't enough potential shards of azem left to fill an 8 man party, because we rejoined with ardbert and its been hinted that the reaper avatar is the other 13ths shard, or its the original golbez, kind of hard to say for certain. meaning there could only be 3 remaining shards of Azem wich could be called upon source + shards = 14, 7 rejoinings + ardbert + source shard (+ 13th shard) = means the wol is 9/14ths of a soul (10 if you count reaper avatar), one of the 4 remaining shards was supposedly destroyed (although that shard might be the one Alexandria hails from, still to early to tell) so were looking at 3 or 4 remaining shards.

[@stevenalvarez2924]

Great video. I was always curious about power scaling in ffxiv since Rabauhn kicked a marble pillar off its base.

[@yedi634]

Yep same. I got curious so I did some research. Even the npcs in the source is crazy strong it was stated even at ARR when we were fighting an Asian she was like "He has control over time itself?'. I forgot where that was but that single line piqued my interest

[@hasseo195]

I wonder allways, how caster are fighting the meele enemy. When they have to stand still for casting and dont have someone, who protect them. Or, how the Thaumaturg wol is fighting Ifrit, when the main attack is fire. And Ifrit IS fire (are they using the other element in that case)

[@zeehero7280]

Goku.. probably not. lol. I get the meme though. But I'd say the Endwalker WOL is at least as strong as many of the other greatest mortal godslaying warriors in fantasy.

[@zeehero7280]

Coming back to this topic, it's important to keep in mind that you can still lose on occasoin to one weaker than you. We couldn't beat Ranjit at first despite being more powerful than him from the start, because he's the equivalent of those old martial arts master old men from anime and manga, and that means he beats us hard on experience. we might have experience slaying gods, more than anyone, but he has hundreds of times our experience when it comes to fighting against powerful human foes.

[@ziongamer6905]

I have to say though, I *do* believe Venat is stronger than Emet. Outside of having more experience, Venat tied with the WoL post rejoining Ardbert- the same WoL who’d beaten Zodiark (whose darkness I think should be greater than Emet in his true form). Whereas Emet lost to the WoL who was rejoined too but also heavily exhausted. Although it’s still highly likely that we would’ve lost without the Auracite. That’s how I see it at least. I loved watching this video regardless XIV/FF power scaling is underrated and soooo fun

[@RuneKatashima]

Also, just because Gilgamesh can traverse dimensions doesn't mean he's multiversal or even universal or even planetary. He just walks through a dimensional rift that, frankly, I've never seen him create himself. 7 Rebirth is a good example of that. Anyone can walk through a rift to go to another dimension. It means nothing. Hell, even sometimes when you do create it yourself you can be not even planetary. Vergil, from the Devil May Cry series can do it, but only with Yamato, which means Yamato is doing it, and Yamato got stopped by a Military-grade Bazooka. Sometimes things have special properties that don't scale.

[@ASNS117Zero]

Great example of this in a different franchise - even the weakest of shinigami in Bleach can open a senkaimon gate to travel to the world of the living or back to soul society.

[@MasterLittica]

That Tier System has never really sat well with me, Tier 5 is a planitary level of destruction but Canonicaly the WoL is not someone that can really destroy a Planet, he is heavily Melee focused and while he could tank a world destroying attack he doesnt have anything that could directly do it. You could say his attacks have the 'Damage' required but lacks the AoE or range, one of the reassons I prefer things like Tier lists that cover Attack, Defense, Speed ad such separately as someone that is a Tier 7 could eat someone who is a Tier 5 if they are enough of a type mismatch. That wouldn't then mean the Tier 7 is now a Tier 5 after all

[@HeroMystic]

Not a powerscaler, but the tier system is not about destruction, but overall potency and ability. A Planetary-level character just means their attacks can hit like a planet slamming into you. For instance, a popular quote from The Flash states his punches have the same power as a White Dwarf Star, which is far beyond planetary. This however doesn't nessecarily mean The Flash could punch the planet and destroy it all in one go. It just means he hits really, really hard.

[@NavytroyXIV]

Flaws I see: Zodiark in his weakened state is still stronger than Hydaelyn and the Endsinger, Elidibus is not only the strongest ascian, but the strongest member of the convocation of 14 (implied on Pandemonium). The strongest characters on FFXIV are Omega, Midgardsormr, Zodiark, Hydaelyn, Athena and Ultima.

[@Sil3ntLynx]

Oh, Wolidibus isn't using Dynamis. Being an Unsundered Ancient, that would probably be entirely impossible. He just learnt a funny summoning spell from G'raha and infused himself with aether from strong people all over the shards. Not sure if this would be him channeling a fully fledged primal or not, but I highly doubt Dynamis figures into this at all

[@PenguinSage]

Warrior of Light Elidibus uses many limit breaks, including a LB4. The fight explicitly mentions how his strong emotions, as well as those of the other heros were what granted him that strength. Aether dense beings can use and effect dynamis. The ancients effect the elpis flowers, and Hermes even made the Metia which are low aether high dynamis lifeforms. It is just that unit by unit, dynamis is far weaker than aether and can only be used through strong emotion. The more aether dense the being, the stronger the emotions have to be to gather enough dynamis to break their limits. It is notable that the LBs are not 100% dynamis anywhere but Ultima Thule and explicitly aether based. Also aether has a way to power up through emotions seemingly unrelated to dynamis. Makes sense because aether based beings have their souls and memories made of the stuff. In general limit breaks are "using emotions to break past your limits". Aether will be enhanced, but unavoidably dynamis will be dragged in alongside the emotions. The WoL also has the most aether out of anyone in the Scions or associated allies. But they are still able to use their emotions to break through their limits, and do it better than anyone else. When we rejoined with Ardbert our power to surpass our limits was not mentioned to weaken. If more aether = less control over dynamis, that would have been mentioned. Omega is also very handy for this. Omega has a very good understanding of how aether works. It knows emotions can empower life forms. It knows how aether should react, and by how much. But it can not accurately predict our performance because it has no sensors for dynamis, nor is it aware of it.

[@davidbujna8480]

Nice vid, but overall there were some mistakes. Like Elidibus in WoL form using Dynamis. That ain't true at all. The Ancient cannot utilize it because they are so heavily connected to aether, they cannot even perceive the existence of it, let alone to utilize it. Hades not knowing it until Hermes told him was proof of it, also we were told Hermes was the one who was the most useful Concovation member when battling the Final Days, since he knew the most of it. What WoLidibus did was using Aether to mimic us.

[@Enis1198]

I was going to make this comment and I agree. Elidibus is really proficient in dark and light magic, we know he's seen sealing magic, canonically, and has had multiple millenia to perfect his skills. His LB4 is probably just a result of his larger capacity of aether because he's unsundered and not because he recieves a dynamis amp.

[@Pink_Jesus]

think you got the wrong song at 2:26, it sounds like "outcast of the sulphurous seas"

[@iaminsanity2238]

but when are you asking the real question: how strong are the mandervilles

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

Limit breaks has nothing to do with Dynamis. the Blessing of Light and the Echo are two very desperate things. WoL end Shadowbringers bodies all of their previous human enemies as shown in the MSQ. the fusion between Ardbert and the WoL is stronger than shade-elidibus, but weaker than Hero Elidibus. Lahabrea( spoilers) literally one shots you in the MSQ now at the end of ARR if not for Hydaelyn. Emet-selech is the most powerful ancient period. In terms of Ancient Aether stats he was considered bottomless without his transformation. the Present WoL is comparable if not above your average ancient now in strength over-all or so, you would think. But it is likely that there are people out there that can be beat the WoL still. Like we know they'll die to Gas. They are still pretty mortal and will die, when struck down and so forth. also My depression can beat Goku.

[@Bladehound83]

"Limit Break has nothing to do with dynamis." Someone didn't pay attention during the Endsinger fight.

[@warllockmasterasd9142]

No, somebody paid attention to all of the lore, including what limit breaks are...@@Bladehound83

[@Lorekeeperhaos]

On the gas note, assuming you mean Black Rose, that's not a standard poison or hyper toxic substance it's a special formula that stills the Aether in your body until you die upon exposure, leeching the life out of you in the process. TL;DR you get bleached from over exposure to "light" aether akin to the Flood of Light on the First and due because you don't have any other Aether to sustain you.

[@TheDapperDragon]

Evidently, we're weaker than a cat.

[@fraserfarmer1557]

Goku would spirit bomb and the WoL would forget to tank LB 3. Or Goku would Kamehameha which would be a line-stack and sprout WoL would run away with it.

[@gamertaggt4552]

I dont know this game as I never got around to play FF14 however I wanted to see your points and I enjoyed it, thx for explaining it as well, I do like the arguement as I think it would be a cool “What IF” but I don’t think WoL would be beating Goku any time soon, Even if DB ends rn and never continues, so when goku turned SSj3 he could be said to be at universal as majin buu was the terror of the universe but I think when he turned SSG is when he really took that title, in the manga it was stated when goku fought beerus, their clashes shook the universe itself, on top of that goku have the ability to break the 4th dimension which is time, we know this because of two cases, 1). Instant transmission, speed is relative and at most u can only travel as fast as light, nothing is faster then that, if we can run as fast as light it would take us over 93 billion light years to reach the end of our universe, goku can instantly teleport anywhere without speed, add that on that SSGSSKx10 Goku was able to slip through time im order to fight Hit which strength this, so goku can slip through time and can be faster then light, not to mention have the power to break the universe is insane (However if u notice I didn’t even mention MUI yet lol)

[@gamertaggt4552]

So now let’s talk about MUI, all of what I just said still stands but is multiplied a dozen if not hundreds time over, the entire no realm was shaken when goku achieved UI for the first time (the no realm is the space outside reality, outside our universe, the infinity of nothing was shaking do to him just waking up into UI) this happens multiple times, it’s safe to say at that moment Goku was stronger then the reality set in DB (not saying his god but if he had the power to break the shake the universe in god he have the power to easily break it in UI) then here it comes MUI, theirs nothing I gotta say, as Goku in UI channels all the defense of the form but not it’s offensive power and kefla mentions it when she took his hit saying it was pathetic till he dialed it up, in MUI he not only haves it’s defensive ability but now matched with it’s offense, could easily say goku is one of if not the strongest character in all of media and it’s not close and the crazy part is HIS NOT DONE, this mf is still going and now his not the only one lol, Broly, Gohan, Vegeta all have multi universal level of power and these fckers plan to keep going and whis even mentions that MUI is the most basic of forms which means this mf just stepped into the door way and the living room the size of the universe which in turns is inside of another and another prob an infinite scale of infinite times on the scale, my head fcken huuuuuuuurts

[@gamertaggt4552]

Just FYI the time slip alone makes his god like, we cannot do what he does already, we are forever stuck in the 3rd dimension, it’s not possible to get to a 4th because to do it we need to have the ability to control time it self in order to manipulate it like his doing so easily with instant transmission lol

[@No0neat]

The WoL can beat anyone if you static prog hard enough. Also zoom out the arena far enough.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

WOL is pretty strong but even a tank lb 3 I don't think is going to do much against a kamehameha strong enough to destroy a planet. DBZ's power scaling is just too insane for most other franchises to really complete directly for 1 on 1 fights. Meteion is a powerful potentially omnicidal being but that power doesn't from being able to crack planets with sheer destructive power, but a special ability that can wipe out entire civilizations through despair. The End Times were a threat because it was turning people into monsters. The WOL being powerful was important in defeating Meteion but it was also more about not giving into despair, and having an unlikely ally allowing us to reach her, that won the day more so than pure physical power. The only FFXIV characters that could best Goku are the Mandervilles.

[@felipebisi4145]

That is if you dont consider omega raid as a computer simulation And Endsinger kinda like the infinity stones that work only on beings of that universe And that WoL even on SB loses to RanJit somehow and somehow you gotta run away from the palace om the coup i mean WoL could knock the entire army if he/she could solo Ultima Ye old: Aurora Borealis ? At this timd of the year ? At this time of day ? In this part of the Country ? Localized entirely within your kitchen ?

[@GuerreiroAventureiro]

I would put XIV wol as the 2nd best strongest character in FF protagonist only losing to the Original Wol from I (Jack Garland is the reason why he made him stronger). He is above than Onion Knight,Bartz,Lightning,Noctis and Clive who are also strong and op

[@airynod]

I think WoL alone is around T7. With Azem gem, maybe T5. With Scion, T2 seems reasonable. I am not sure if WoL is the strongest protagonist as individual in Final Fantasy, but Scions of the seventh dawn should be the most powerful group. Sure, WoL has beaten so many world-ending god/monster, but we never has the power to do the same thing. Maybe only durability is really out of the world. P.S.: looked at who else is in T7...Satoru Gojo. Seem fair to me.

[@cygnusereve4779]

If we count all the other side adventures (especially Hildebrand), i think WoL can stand up to Goku. Though, beat might be too much ro handle at the moment (if compare to Goku now....i assume he is even more powerful now).

[@Zyfer_1]

TBH my high ass was so fucking invested in this it was alot of fun!!

[@yedi634]

LOL this comment made my day. Ty so much lmaoo

[@fluffdafire157]

To bad we can't use the ultimate raids for power scaling those are always crazy

[@yedi634]

Ikr :< if u know tea there's a mech called fate calibration. The mech is basically like we see our clone and how we die in the future. We solve the mech by looking at our clones and solve our mech. If ults are canon then using that we would've had funny Acasuality stuff going on. Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

[@SoloIori]

​@yedi634 don't we kinda do that anyway in normal Alexander? We go back in time and save our past self

[@yedi634]

Hmm.. that might just be time manipulation not fate. Not sure though

[@KINGOFTHESPARKS755]

I think yier 4 is about right. Could also put Zidane near here too since (with help) he beat Necron. Who is AT MINIMUM tier 4 as well

[@arcanetoast]

hey look I'm in this video also fire editing

[@madambutterfly1997]

is beating Goku now considered the conservative estimate in cross-franchise power scaling?

[@ASNS117Zero]

It's just the base standard now for a character to be considered strong, especially with how watered down things like "universal" and "planetary" are considered now online versus what they *actually are* because nobody understands scale.

[@Montyandrew45]

It depends, is the WOL on a Warrior Job? Cause that might make Goku's life harder xD

[@yedi634]

I believe in-lore they could change jobs mid battle shown in shb trailer :>

[@neocalamity3459]

I actually had a small discussion about how 'powerful' our WoL is and in truth... we aren't that strong. As you mentioned, echo is a predictive system, a warning for those who can see it which means the most skilled WoL iteration can avoid any and all attacks because of this. Our 'power' is the traits of our classes. Dark knight manipulates darkness, dragoon uses dragon eyes, most classes are artificially empowered. In truth the only two reasons why the WoL is difficult to kill is because we can't die (due to ressurrection capabilities) and our resilience which is explained by our gear. The better gear we have, the more sturdy we are. Same with weapons, the better the weapon the sturdier and sharper/more effective it is. Otherwise we have dynamis as our last resort which is our true capability. The reason why we survived most world ending abilities in the story are due to external factors. Ultima weapon? Hydaelyn's shield. (Potential spoiler for some) Endsinger? The literal power of friendship.

[@christianrivera1708]

none of this is true at all, youre confusing game mechanics with lore. thats like saying goku is weak because he uses ki to artificially empower himself. Gear thing you said is debunked because weak NPCS wear the same gear you do and cant kill primals, other scions wear gear and arent hard to kill. A weapon is an extenstion of the warrior, and the WOL has an arsenal of weapons at his disposal. You said most world ending abilities and only named 2. If you include raids as lore as well, the WoL scaled universal easily.

[@neocalamity3459]

​​​@@christianrivera1708I quote myself "...most classes are artifically enhanced." Mch: prepare for everything and create new weapons Dnc: invigorate allies to push further Gnb: more cartridges, more explosive force, more boom. These are classes who DON'T have what something like Drk or Rpr has. Drk without power: flailing giant sword around Rpr without voidsent: flailing scythe around. Both classes without their power would find it harder to adapt unless they learn new skills and strengthen themselves. So I'm not saying 'Goku is weak because his ki empowers him' what I'm saying is each class is powerful for their own reason, some recieving more potency in magics while others in development/skill. As for gear, npcs and primals. First of all primals temper, remove tempering and anyone could fight/beat them. Those npcs aren't there for just fodder in duty support. Second, is steel stronger than adamantite? Who knows, but could an ishgardian knight stand up to the beasts in thavnair? Probably not since whatever material they have used for their gear is supposedly stronger than that of ishgard. Third, need I remind you (and spoilers for story if people haven't got this far) the scions fought hydaelyn WITH us. They survived the effects of Ultima Thule WITH us. Sure they might not have survived the endsinger or zeromus but they are strong in their own rights, able to somewhat keep up with the WoL. Tldr and ultimate summary however, the message I originally posted was meant as a response to the original entry of the video 'I'd love to hear people's takes on this topic!' Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't matter and sorry if this seemed like a declaration of war to you but if you're seeking an accurate reading of lore how about read it and keep it to yourself.

[@Hellric]

Unrelated but i see you with that pgr ost. Based🔥

[@yedi634]

no you based =w=

[@shimogane2474]

I think that the warrior of light doesn't really fit into these measurements of destroying X, because ranking of this, he fits between tier 7 to arguably 2? So the problem is that azem stone. The warrior in itself isn't able to destroy a lot in his own might, he acts in help of his surrounding friends to do so. But when he is acting, he always transcends beyond his own power projections, even after hydaelin has died, so it seems to be a feat every Azem is able to accomplish. And if this isn't enough, he can call other projections from other dimensions. I argue dimensions, because a world can only be safed once, and all the people running around defeating the story in other times in the same dimension is just, impossible, to describe it likely, so they exists in other worlds, but can be seen by the WoL. So Azem / the warrior of light is able to call being beyond his own universe, which isn't powerful, but it is influencing the multiverse, which would be ranking straight into lowest tier 2. We can assume that all WoL live through the same events, so the multiverse being influenced by them only play out to be all universes with the exact same events, but the WoL happens to look different. PS: that calling ability doesn't fit so good into the story for me, it is shown that he uses the stone to call allies,but he did it prior, and they all shared the WoL abilities too, so he practically doesn't need the stone to use azems power, if anyone can explain me that, I would be grateful.

[@yedi634]

That's an interesting perspective on the story actualy. I've never thought that the "other players" that we're fighting with is also wol from other dimensions. I've always treated them like npc until he has the azem crystal. If that truly is the case then he'd be much stronger.

[@DLMoridin]

@@yedi634 except that during the incident with Susano in SB when coming up with a plan to fight him you get asked "I dont suppose any of your adventurer friends are around" or something like that. as far as the game is concered the player character is the WoL and everyone else is a "adventurer" with a minor echo/temper protection. iirc canonically you and cid are the only ones that do castrum meridanum and praetorium.(shown in game that the leaders are only worried about you as the base is destroyed). There's a garlean npc in EW that was there and calls you a monster for "killing dozens of his fellow soldiers". The azem stone basically just dose the same thing as Elidibus' warrior of light summoning spell which he kinda copied partly from the one the crystal exharch uses to summon us. Just more targeted at willing people.

[@WickedSensei]

@@DLMoridin Indeed prior to the Azem crystal partiy members were just other adventurer friends as you said with an echo. I didn't know it was stated in canon that he defeated the castrum and prae only with Cid..if that's so then the WOL is more powerful than I thought.

[@DLMoridin]

@@WickedSensei im pretty sure that they got asked at some point and they said that canonically you and cid are only ones there.

[@WickedSensei]

@@DLMoridin interesting, if so the WOL is easily town level at least.

[@Mortified42]

The Echo > Ultra Instinct

[@crimsonpotemkin]

I thought about this as well. WoL isn't anywhere near the strongest even in just Eorzea, let alone the world or the 13 shards. It takes the WoL hundreds and thousands of attacks worth of damage to bring down one foe. Sometimes requiring 7 other people. At the same time WoL dies in 3-4 hits max, often getting obliterated in 1 hit. WoL, however, is the unbelievably versatile, persistent and insanely good at reading attacks, mostly likely through reading Aether energy patterns or something. WoL is in fact just like Clare/Claire from Claymore, who also feels demon energy and can predict attacks because of it. Now the most important part is the insane level of versatility. Even all the scions at the same level as the WoL only have less than 10 abilities in their arsenal. They have some hybrid abilities, but overall their mastery over their single class is maybe at 25% of what the WoL possessing the same class can do. That's their ceiling. And the WoL can 100% every class, whereas Scions (exclusing Graha) are all limited to 1 each. WoL is the world's best swiss army knife with god-like side stepping technique. I don't know if the wipes are canon or not, but if they are (and so is the growing echo), then WoL also has some time manipulation shenanigans.

[@yedi634]

Yep. He can also switch job mid battle shown in shb trailer. It's crazy

[@aaronlefebre5060]

The wipes are never canon unless shown in a cinematic or cut scene. Those wipes are the Echo in action, allowing the WoL to use the Precognition aspect to basically do what Doctor Strange did in Infinity War and preview billions of fights to find the winning outcome. If you win a fight, then that was the winning outcome and the WoL canonically won that fight. If you wipe, then that was just an Echo demo, and you haven't even started yet, just mentally previewing the fight to find the wincon.

[@WickedSensei]

@@aaronlefebre5060 I never thought of it that way but it makes complete sense!

[@WickedSensei]

This lines up with my view as well, good post.

[@miriamweller812]

Standard plot armor writing = mainly wins because the writers want it and just reduce the power of the antagonists to that level. Look at the whole shit show since at least SB. Neither Garlemald nor Ascian ever do anything. Even Zenos massively holds back not even starting with Omega Weapon, which just hoverst there for no reason after being shown in a cutscene, how it actually fights. Ascians contantly knock out the WoL and even teleport him/her forcefully, can just wait for any moment to backstab the WoL and of course easily kill any of the Scions. They just never do. Garlemald is a continent sized version with not only a scifi hight ech army far beyond the level of for example the USA, but also way mor magical power on their side, since only a fraction of Garleans are actual Garleand by race and in contrary to Eorza they got schools and universities. But even the magic aside, their airships = flying fortresses, described as inpenetrable by Eorzan magic and weaponry in ARR (and there was zero development to change that in everything beyond this) fly with (also ingame description) hypersonic speed, what is Mach 5+, that's 1750m or over a mile per second. In a cutscene it was shown how powerful the cannons are, on the level of mininukes or big bomb dropped by bomber which can obliterate whole buildings. ARR also showed that they got shield generators on top of that and their doors were only breakable by their own weaponry and that with overloard. Of course none of this is ever used. Overall Garlemald could obliterate Eorza in half a day without any problem. With such ships and their speed and firepower a single one could just fly by without even being seen as nor ever able to stop it and just carpet bomb those towns. Eorzan magic is shown in SB: short ranged, slow, weak. The needed a whole ritual and had to get 100m close plus a full cannon barrage to make a mere dent in city gate. Without the obvious plot armor writing and against an actual empire (not even starting talking about evil), they would have died long before even reaching that point WoL overall can't be brainwashed by primals, because WoL already is brainwashed by one, Super Hytleryn. That's pretty much it. And even bird brain, while actually doing something is defeated by Zenos not the WoL. What would the WoL have done beside standing their and farting their pants?

[@Lordlos9]

So for Hades, the only way to kill asciens is to destroy their souls. Lahabrea was absorbed, otherwise you cannot kill him without the auracite. Same applies to hades, it's not that auracite is OP, it's that you cannot put them down for good unless you use it. They can still be defeated and forced to retreat. Even Emmet flat out said that he didn't want to fight WOL at the beginning of shadow bringers, calling them the "ascien slayer". Even while literally dying near the end of SHB, he said something along the lines of "your light being a sun to their campfire" (referring to the scions) or something along those lines. Hydaelyn DID split the universe as we have multiple different moons where zodiarks fragments were. You can see this in the 13th, where you're in a completely different place. Yea omega simulations are debatable but you even fight Kefka who himself terraforms the planet and could easily destroy it. I think raid series are canon since they reference them in the story whether you beat them or not. Only thing thats prolly not canon is maybe savages and certainly ultimates.

[@yedi634]

Yep. I'm always wondering though is the Emett we summoned in Ultima Thule is the same one? I don't know it seems like strange but he seemed like the Emet that we met in Elpis or something because we basically summoned Emett from the aetherial sea right? So does this Emett have the memory of us unaliving him? Sorry if the question sounds strange. And yes. Savages and ultimates are not canon. They're just stories told by the bard. Ultimates are obvious but if you've ever done savages, all of the last boss in the raid tier that has a second phase is not canon. Like p12s phase 2 where spoilers: She transformed into a mommy tentacle

[@Lordlos9]

@@yedi634 So emmet in ultima thule is basically a fully restored, up to date emmet with all the memories of everything. When they die, they get their sealed memories back, that means everything they were made to forget in Elpis, he got all that back after you killed him in SHB. That's why he is friendly towards you.

[@yedi634]

Ok ok got it. Thank you =w=

[@funkwater8759]

This is an incredibly well made video, and I agree with the scaling you gave to all of the NPC/Boss characters, but honestly I have an issue with power scaling tiers in general. While it's true that the WoL has defeated characters that are town level and above as you mentioned, saying that they themselves can destroy a town or a planet just because they beat these characters is a bit of a stretch. For example, like you said, they beat the Ultima Weapon who appeared to be town level with how gaius deleted the praetorium, but it's not like the WoL used a town level attack to defeat him. I think the most impressive destructive feat the WoL has done is the attack they did in the Shadowbringers trailer where they split the sky open. Honestly, that attack did indeed appear to be able to destroy a town, but so far that's all the WoL is shown to be capable of doing. Im not saying all of this to hate on your video :) like I said it's incredibly well made and honestly made me laugh a few times, and im not saying that I disagree with _your_ scaling of the WoL, it's more that I disagree with how powerscalers put characters in unbelievable tiers. The most infamous example is how people like to say "erm ackshually, Goku is a universal character because he was able to keep up with characters who can destroy the universe" like what does that mean? are they implying that Goku could destroy a universe easily? or even with one attack? it just doesn't make sense to me. how is he supposed to Kamehameha the universe like what. With power scaling logic, we can say that the mamoolja guy the WoL is fighting in the Dawntrail Trailer is ALSO town or planet level because he's giving the WoL a hard time. you see what I mean? power scaling logic just doesn't make much sense unless it's an arm wrestling tournament or something like that. Overall tho, fantastic video I'm definitely subscribing and lookin forward to more of your stuff in my recommended! :D

[@yedi634]

Thank you so much :> i think I kinda explained it kinda poorly to be honest. Town level characters for example. Just because they can't pull out a energy beam kind of attack that could destroy a town in one hit doesent mean they're not town level. It's just town level characters could also mean that they could survive town level attacks (aka having town level durability) or capable of passing by the durability of a character that could survive a town level attacks via hax like sealing an ascian is one example of hax. It requires outside help via white crystal but you get my point. Power scaling is also really complicated because there's a lot of factor like BFR (battle field removal) like for example Elidibus didn't exactly beat wol. He just sealed him and there's no way we could've just go back to our own dimension. Is there a feat about Elidibus having town level attacks potency? Not really but he deffinitely would've killed us. A character with town level durability scaling via natural disaster feat in ARR. so yeah there's so many factors really.

[@TheAsj97]

You're right that this type of powerscaling doesn't work here for FFXIV, but it DOES work for Dragon Ball and the reason for that is ki. A person's power level (amount of ki they have) is directly related to their speed, attack power, and - most importantly in powerscaling - durability, because it is their ki that fuels all of those stats. Goku is universe level, but if he is 100% exhausted he could easily die to someone with pre saiyan saga power level for example, as what would matter then is just his normal biological durability as a saiyan, which is not too much higher than a normal human. As a matter of fact, I think the Warrior of Light would actually win then. In FFXIV's and most other games/media, people's speed, attack and durability are all unrelated to each other. You could have something like the Ultima Weapon, which has a really high destructive power for Etheirys' standard, but its durability is far weaker, so powerscaling doesn't really work the same way. As to your question as to how could Goku destroy the universe, I guess maybe you haven't watched the Buu saga? Because during the Buuhan vs Vegito fight, Buu literally almost destroyed the universe when he became enraged, the only reason it wasn't destroyed is because Vegito stopped him before he could complete the destruction. This Buu is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of current Ultra Instinct Goku's power level, so YES, Goku could instantly destroy the universe if he wanted to, and so could anyone who has a higher power level than Buuhan.

[@christianrivera1708]

WOL can 100% destroy towns and cities if they wanted to. Black Mages are capable of summoning meteors and casting some of the most devastating spells in canon, and the WoL is one of if not THE strongest BLM in history. While also being the strongest WHM, Dragoon, Summoner, etc. And dont say anyone can be a BLM or Dragoon or WHM, 99% of people in lore will only achieve the base class of the job..even Yshtola is still a conjurer, and Ryne is a rogue. WoL is the epitome of strength in their universe, and if you include raids can survive black holes time altering attacks, mind control, soul destroying attacks, lazer beams, giant meteors. WoL is one of the strongest characters in fiction let alone FF based on durability alone.

[@WickedSensei]

@@christianrivera1708 I was going to make a similar point of town level for the WOL. He def could destroy a town with all the skills he has and if he was enraged or did an Itachi. He almost singlehandley broke through the Garlean defensive line when we were first entering Garlemald and everyone felt so relieved when he showed up. I am just not sure he is god level since all those fights he has help. But he is surely above every other normal person we have seen so far.

[@nickbopp4819]

Id say 4 or 5 as wol but if completed as azem it could very well push them to 2

[@stevenalvarez2924]

So had a random thought that popped in my head about how strong the WoL became at the end of Endwalker. We kind of ignored this feat because it wasn't assumed to be much, but in retrospect might be far higher than initially believed. Zenos headbutted through Endsingers "world/sun/shield". An object designed to hold the entire Universe of ffxiv in it over time. Zenos used physical force to break through what was supposed to be unbreakable. It was supposed to contain all of ffxiv reality in it. Than the WoL fought and defeated a being that for all intents and purposes had that same power at the end. How big of a feat is Zenos breaking in to that Sun that was supposed to hold all of reality in do time?

[@yedi634]

It's hard to quantify. I've never saw this statement actualy but if it is true but shinryu zenos was amped because he consumed what was left of the mothercrystal I believe. so this scaling is not permanent. But if we're scaling zenos with this feat then zenos is easily universal/multiversal. It depends on what it means by "contains all of ff14 reality in it" if it affects all 13 reflections then he's easily multiversal. I need to re-read though and look at the context though in case I'm missing anything.

[@stevenalvarez2924]

​@yedi634 Metioen points at her dead sun and roughly says the lines. "You can find me there, a place where no life escapes" Which implies from the waybthe story is going that her "Sun" is designed to hold souls and such. Yet when you fight her Endsinger form she says, "Even Suns die." This easily implies her Sun can hold stars in general with no issues since she sees stars as a sorce of life as well. Not only that but hold black holes as well since Black holes create stars. So her star is implied to hold things that manipulate time, space and reality around them. Thus she wants to hold all of ffxiv reality in her "Sun/star". Her boss lines implies she plans a reverse big bang. To bring anything and everything to just 1 location.

[@CineGoodog]

I don't think Venat is under Emet Selch.

[@yedi634]

Fair honestly. I can see people putting Venat above Emett

[@atharozexistlien9617]

Meteion is same straight of zamazu and black Goku fusion so mmm oh crap WL pretty but with 8 ppl

[@nothisispatrick5691]

Mention is not even close in power to Zamazu.