HOW Subhuman FAILS As A BATTLE ANTHEM For DEVIL MAY CRY 5

[@anggasatya69]

This is the video I was looking for. A video from someone knowledgeable about metal music reviewing Subhuman. I need to rewatch and so some research to grasp the world of metal music tho. But still, I love to hear your opinion and you even gave suggestion how to improve the band and the music too.

[@AnimetalViking]

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I'm glad I was able to provide some insight into how the mind of a metal fan works. If you are thinking of getting into metal, I'd suggest starting with stuff that is accessible before going for the extreme stuff. The more extreme genres like death metal, deathcore, black metal, and others are something one typically develops a taste for overtime. There are very few metal fans who actually started out listening to those kinds of genres from the get go and actually liked it upon first listen. So mad respect always goes out to those people. Anyways, if you'd like to learn more about the genre, the classics are a great place to start. I'd suggest starting with bands like Metallica (every album up until The Black Album), Pantera, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. Then I'd recommend exploring the music of Devin Townsend. Especially the Devin Townsend Project. Epicloud and Z2 are great places to start along with Ocean Machine. Nu Metal bands like Linkin Park, Mudvayne, P.O.D., Korn, System Of A Down, Disturbed, Dope, Slipknot, and Bloodsimple are great for getting used to more harsher styles vocals while still getting a healthy does of clean singing and even hip hop and grunge elements. Also, bands like Nightwish, In Flames, Sabaton, and Trivium are great places to start branching out once you've experienced those genres. Only then would I recommend checking out everything else once you've gotten used to the sound, energy, and songwriting styles of metal. So, from there literally anything from power metal to metalcore to deathcore to symphonic metal. Anything that sounds good to you is now available from there on out. Also, any and all info on bands can be found on The Metal Archives and Wikipedia. Also, the documentary Metal - A Headbanger's Journey by Sam Dunn will give you a basic understanding of metal culture. Hope this helps and happy listening.

[@firerath]

Thank you for this. As someone that has no understanding of music whatsoever, I found this very informative and helped me understand why Subhuman fails. With the vocals changed, I feel the main issue now are the lyrics themselves. They don't feel like the lyrics for Dante, even if it's supposed to be his lowest point and he's supposed to be struggling. I don't feel like Dante would go around telling people "You cannot kill me." They're too whiney and feel desperate for attention rather than someone in a desperate situation. I know the song is suppose to emphasise the idea that Dante is facing his greatest challenge, but the song seems more interested in what Dante can do rather than who he is. The lyrics also seem too overt, lacking the intricacies of other songs in the series, it starts loud and finishes loud, and there's nothing in between. There's no calm in the song, nothing that indicates Dante's coolheaded nature. The song feels angry, if that makes any sense. Even the name goes against Dante's character, as his defining trait is that he is human, not that he is half human. The series is based around the idea that the ability to care for others, to cry for others, is what makes humans stronger than demons. Dante's humanity is what makes him more powerful than his brother or father, the former because he abandoned it and the latter due to being human only in soul. By claiming he is "Subhuman," it claims that this Dante is less than human, when he is more human than full blooded humans like Arkham and Sanctus. Dante is not subhuman, he is the most human character in the series. He doesn't look down on other beings I feel the song is beyond salvaging. No matter who sings it, the lyrics are the backbone of the whole song, and the lyrics are bad. I feel Cody Matthew Johnson was the wrong choice for Devil May Cry, as his previous work for the series with MvCI's rendition of Devil's Never Cry butchered the best song in the series. He seems fine enough when not working on DMC, an asshole, as his response to Subhuman's reception show, but competent. But when it comes to Subhuman, it fails. It doesn't matter what they do with the song now, it's only going to be a story of lipstick on a pig.

[@AnimetalViking]

Thank you for your input. I'm glad you found the video helpful and informative in some way :) That being said, I totally understand where you are coming from with the lyrics, but, only to a certain degree. Lyrics are only one piece of the entire product. When a song begins to play, the first thing you hear is the sound, not the words, and, if we are being real honest here, most singers, no matter how great their voices are, have a hard time using pronunciation to make the lyrics audible throughout the entire song without one having to look them up online. Therefore, it is all good and well that your song has well written and intelligent lyrics, but, if the song is mixed, composed, or written badly then all it amounts to is a polished turd. Now, I didn't mention it in the video as when I made it, I assumed most of the people watching it would be metalheads like myself and would be familiar with Suicide Silence history and track record as a band. So, I am in agreement with your most of your complaints concerning the lyrics for the song, but, I will give you some context as to why they turned out the way that they did. Back in 2013, the original vocalist for the band, Mitch Lucker, died in a tragic motorcycle accident and he was one of the most unique and celebrated vocalists in the deathcore genre. Despite this, the band decided to continue making music and as a result they recruited Eddie Hermida of All Shall Perish, one of the OG bands to start the deathcore subgenre, as their new vocalist. The problem is that Mitch was such a charismatic and talented frontman that it created high expectations of Eddie. So, he had some pretty big shoes to fill. Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say Mitch is the greatest lyricist in metal. His writing was rather generic, but, it did resonate with a lot of young people and still does. But Eddie on the other hand, doesn't seem to be good at handling criticism. So, while their first album with Eddie on vocals was great musically, the lyrics took a total dive as they mostly came off the same way that pop musicians always like to write lyrics attempting to roast their 'haters'. So, even though the album, You Can't Stop Me, performed relatively well, trouble started setting in when the band announced a change in sound with their then upcoming self-titled album. The album was awful. Eddie and the band tried desperately to imitate nu-metal bands from the 90s and early 2000s like Korn and Deftones and they failed. And, their reputation and album sales dropped drastically. When they released singles before the albums release, they openly talked down to their fans, which ruined things for them even more. Fast forward to 2018, after becoming a living meme in the metal community, Eddie clearly seems to be still angry and upset that the previous album failed and that most of their fans want nothing to do with the band anymore. Then, the band get and offer to do music for a major gaming franchise. So, while I'm not sure whether or not the lyrics were all written by Eddie or whether Cody had some input is anyone's guess. But, Eddie simply could not resist the opportunity to, once again, write lyrics that contain a not so subtle hint that he is a vocalist for one of metal's biggest names and that if you hate what he does then you 'cannot kill him'. That's the only reason I can think of as to why the lyrics aren't nearly as poetic as those of Shall Never Surrender or Devils Never Cry. So, in conclusion, yes, the lyrics for Subhuman are definitely not that good and maybe don't reflect Dante's character. However, the lyrics could be worse. They may not be of the same level of quality as a band like Septicflesh, Blind Guardian, Opeth, Carnifex, and others, but, at least they aren't pop music stupid. I would rather have a kick ass sounding song with cheesy 'brometal' 'gonna kick your ass' style lyrics than something about ass and titties ;) There is a fantastic KZbinr and buddy of mine whose channel you should watch if you would like to get a good foundation in understanding music without having to read music sheets or play an instrument and that is Become The Knight. He makes fantastic content and can probably explain some things better than I can since he is a musician himself. Once again, thank you for your input. It is greatly appreciated :)

[@firerath]

@@AnimetalVikingI apologise for taking a long time to respond, my internet has been crapping out. Thank you for such an in depth response. I had a basic understanding of the events but you really filled in the blanks for me I never considered that Eddie could have been the one that wrote the lyrics. Considering Jeff Rona and Ali Edwards wrote Crimson Cloud and Devil Trigger and got other people to sing, in addition to Cody Matthew Johnson's response to the backlash, I just assumed that he was the one that wrote it, though with the context you gave it does make sense for Eddie to have written it. I didn't mean to dismiss other issues with the song, I simple felt that the lyrics were a factor that was being overlooked. The other factors, like vocals and speed *can* be rectified, but the lyrics aren't so easy to adjust. I agree that having something like the lyrics we got are better than, as you said, "something about ass and titties," but it lacks the charm of the series. Devil May Cry songs have always been edgy, but more the cheesy sort of edgy, where it knows how ridiculous it is and just has fun with being edgy rather than the super serious edgy. You mentioned cheesiness, and yeah, a Devil May Cry song should be cheesier than the moon, but I don't find Subhuman to be cheesy enough. It seems to take itself too seriously. It's hard to describe, but Devil May Cry is more Fullmetal Alchemist edgy than Shadow the Hedgehog edgy. I apologise if it seemed like I was ignoring the points you brought up. They shed a lot of light on the situation for me and I simply wanted to contribute to the discussion by addressing an aspect of the song I felt was being ignored or overlooked. Thank you again. Have a good day.

[@AnimetalViking]

@@firerath It is all good. No need to apologize. Input like yours is greatly appreciated. I enjoy talking to people who contribute more to discussions other than saying 'this is great' or 'your opinion is trash'. Again, thanks for your comments. I hope to continue seeing you around 😉

[@AegisKHAOS]

I'm months late, but I'm glad to stumble on this video. Thank you for articulating the reasons, especially the vocals, in a way the rest of us can understand. I've listened to metal, yet most of the songs' vocals never bothered me even when they get into the high pitched screams. Subhuman was very off yet I couldn't quite explain it well. Thanks for your analysis.

[@AnimetalViking]

Thank you! I'm glad you found this video informative. I apologize for the late reply. KZbin isn't doing a good job of notifying me when subscribers or new viewers comment on my videos as of late :P

[@AegisKHAOS]

@@AnimetalViking Wouldn't worry too much about it. YT at times has been a buggy cesspool on just about anything, and I don't expect replies anyways. But thanks for replying anyways. :)

[@imraanakollo-arenz1449]

Great video. As someone who plays DMC and loves metal, I agree. It just doesn't work. With the previous vocalist who did the DMC 3 Dante(Devils Never Cry, right?) theme also used harsh vocals and implemented them much better, where it doesn't sound whiny. The guitar was a simple riff that repeated over and over with the synths backing it up giving it a classic industrial feel. Here with Subhuman, it sounded like a guitar fucked skrillex's MacBook. But also I'd like to throw my two cents on some vocalists who could also be contenders. (Not that I disagree. Corey Taylor would be sick though. Or even just having a slipknot track as they can bring that raw edge to it): Minami(FaLiV) - the dude is INSANE. He's one of the best vocalists I've seen in the Japanese metal scene, and has shown some versatility with his screams. And the band's mix of metal and electronics would make him a reasonable choice Ryo(Crystal Lake) - He has some power behind his screams and can also use cleans and this rapping/spoken word hybrid. Despite being a Japanese band, like Coldrain, all their songs are in English and is proficient in English, which helps remove the language barrier. Matt Heafy- while he may not have the most brutal vocals, I feel he can still pull through, and looking at Trivium's catalogue, he could write some sick riffs and he's getting big in the gaming community which could help attract other metalheads and gamers to DMC. Chino Moreno - Again, while not the most brutal I feel Chino could add a tinge of darkness with his signature clean voice which could build up something ominous and then switch up with some screams a la Brief Exchange, a song he did for the Dark Nights Metal Soundtrack Randy Blythe - Need I say more? Briton Bond (Wage War) - One of the newer vocalists and he is killing it And if they wanted to go in a more rap/metal/industrial type of song for V then I'd suggest: Mike Shinoda AJ Channer (Fire From The Gods) Sonny Sandoval Eric July And if we can find him, Zack De La Rocha

[@AnimetalViking]

Fantastic choices and I appreciate your reasoning behind why you would pick them. Also nice picks from the Japanese metal scene. Crystal Lake are an amazing band and their grasp of English would indeed be a massive help in crossing the language barrier. Another great choice might be Jonathan Underdown from fade. He provided the vocals for the Deadman Wonderland opening theme. I don't know if anyone would find his vocals appealing but I could see him being a more versatile and dynamic pick as well.

[@imraanakollo-arenz1449]

@@AnimetalViking so that's his name. I've been looking for that guy for a while now. Also, while the instrumental isn't too bad, I feel like Capcom is throwing the non metalheads into the deep end with how subhuman is handled. Which I feel may have been why I unintentionally gave quite a few vocalists who could use cleans as to make the song a bit more accessible. So if they could retract the deathcore a bit and go more for an industrial metal , metalcore or maybe even nu metal(a stretch) and maybe change up the lyrics cause they don't reflect on Dante in my opinion

[@Lugbzurg]

Well... guess I got some music recommendations to look into. I was thinking Celldweller would make a good alternative, but this "Zardonic" guy seems cool, too.

[@AnimetalViking]

Cool. Glad I was able to help in that regard. Discovering new music is always a good thing. Indeed. Zardonic is an insanely talented dude though his stuff is super underrated which is a real shame. He has collaborated with Celldweller in the past and has remixed some of his songs as well. He has also worked with Voicians and Blue Stahli on some of their material. He has a new album dropping soon and Celldweller is a featured artist so I'm looking forward to that. If you want to listen to some of his music, you can find it on his official channel and in various other places across KZbin. Thanks for watching and happy listening!

[@oguzakdeniz809]

Read my mind...

[@pavma7]

Zardonic is the shit

[@thebiggeridiot]

i did not really care for the recommendations until i heard zardonic, i never heard of them but holy shit, that FITS!!!! the vocals work, it's fast, it's just perfect.

[@HELLBENTSOUL]

I wonder how Trivium would sound as part of the soundtrack.

[@leecharles6951]

Name on the Chad Grey song please. Also great video it’s good that you actually have in depth analysis on how the song doesn’t work instead of saying it just sucks

[@AnimetalViking]

Thanks dude! Your words are too kind. As for the song it's called Dig by Mudvayne.

[@leecharles6951]

AnimetalViking Thanks fam keep up the good work there’s not a lot of music reviewers nowadays other than Fantano even then he just covers rap nowadays

[@AnimetalViking]

I know what you mean. I don't watch much of Fantano's material but since his videos get recommended to me a lot and I watch the odd one that takes my fancy even I can tell when he is following the trends haha XD

[@maneticmaggot7258]

Been a metal head for about 18 years afraid not too up to date with a lot of more mainstream (err as mainstream it can be) Wow mushroomhead and Static X sweet! takes me back I would love too see Demon Hunter doing it mostly cause the bands name fits perfectly they have very clean and precise vocals which I know non metal fans would appreciate and well they are currently my favorite band. I believe one of there songs was on Killingfloor 2 which I've never played but I would not mind old school Mushroomhead. Anyway Great video!

[@InternetNinja100]

Great Video

[@harukuroma376]

they changed the vocals to micheal barr, i'm interested to see how that turns out to be.

[@AnimetalViking]

What band is he from?

[@harukuroma376]

@@AnimetalViking ex member of Volumes i reckon. I haven't heard much from them.

[@AnimetalViking]

Really? Well, I've only heard one song from them and they sound like a solid band though they aren't my cup of tea. I much rather prefer Periphery's material in the whole 'djent' scene or the OGs themselves, Meshuggah. That's actually a relief because when I typed in the name on Google search, I got a Gospel singer and I was thinking 'What the fuck? A gospel singer on a metal song? Lol!' But, if it's a better metal vocalist and from a band I've at least heard of I guess it's alright. I just hope Cody Matthew mixes the song properly this time. I love my growls and screams but I understand it's not for everyone. You need to ease people into it until they develop either a tolerance or a palette for it.

[@harukuroma376]

Indeed, i hope the new version might have a better mixing to not overwhelm the players so fast. I am kinda glad Capcom took this seriously and tried to find a middle ground between the artists they hired and the consumers feedback.

[@TheClarity101]

Corey Taylor would be incredible

[@TheSchoolyD]

I wouldn't say that people hadn't like metal vocals, if they were done right. Thrash, even growls fit well. The metalcore breakdowns, especially of that quality and quantity, weren't up to snuff. You are right on the money on the tempo. Subhuman lacks cheese and style in general. It fits Nero, a hot-headed brute, a lot more actually. Also, would be nice if vocals became harsher the more stylish you got. Missed opportunity.

[@TheClarity101]

What are the songs for Tim Williams and the others? A list in the description would be great

[@AnimetalViking]

Sure. The songs I used are: 'Die Without Hope' by Carnifex (Scott Ian Lewis) 'Reign Of Darkness' by Thy Art Is Murder (CJ McMahon) 'Straight Hate' by Bloodsimple (Tim Williams) 'Dig' by Mudvayne (Chad Gray) 'Wait And Bleed' by Slipknot (Corey Taylor) 'Solitaire Unraveling' by Mushroomhead (Waylon Reavis)

[@RubyRaggy]

Nice video 👍 It doesn’t bother me, but a better microphone would help out a lot.

[@AnimetalViking]

Yeah. My friends tell me the same thing. So you can imagine what my ears are like at the end of the day after all the editing haha ;) Unfortunately, it's still going to be a while before I can get my hands on a better mic. So, I apologize if it's somewhat bothersome. But thanks for watching.

[@JoeNeutrino]

I think you did a good job of describing the problems with the song. I'm not an expert but if it was up to me I'd give the song more energetic drums and change the vocal style. I'd actually be happy with a song without vocals. I don't think they're a necessity. DMC1 has my favourite battle music in the series and there are no vocals in those songs.

[@AnimetalViking]

Exactly. The BPM and overall tempo of Subhuman just wasn't energetic enough to be considered a 'battle anthem'. While instrumental tracks can be great, I do find that if you ask any metalhead, myself included, that the genre lacks that extra bit of kick without them. It's all about picking the right vocalist whose style and technique is compatible with a variety of genres and Eddie Hermida isn't one of them. Plus, his vocals sound bad in this song not just because of the awful way it was mixed, but, because he has been going on a downward spiral as of late. The last time he produced anything good was with his old band, All Shall Perish. It was only after Mitch Lucker (the original Suicide Silence vocalist) passed away that he joined SS and messed up their career and his own entirely. The vocalists and artists that I chose in this video were all based on how compatible I feel their style and technique would render well with DMCs industrial/aggrotech/EBM score. But, I understand the outrage of DMC fans completely as deathcore isn't for everyone. Not even in the metal scene. Ask any puritan metalhead and they will all say metal died with nu metal bands like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Korn, etc (not that I believe them since there have been so many great bands coming out still to this day). So they can't stand anything from that era onward. Though, I still tend to chuckle a little from some of the reactions of the fans. If they thought they didn't like what is practically normal harsh vocals for extreme metal, wait until they hear something from a genre like slamming brutal death metal or grindcore. As much as I love those genres, it would be a bad idea to get a band like Signs Of The Swarm, Vulvodynia, Creating The Godform or any of those guys to do the music. Capcom's stocks would be at practically zero if they took that direction.