How Tails could be Sonic's Greatest Enemy

Sonic Prime has come to a disappointing end, but today we are going to look at the strongest element introduced by the series: Nine. An alternate-reality version of Tails who ends up being the greatest threat of the show. Is the character worth salvaging from the shatterverse? Let's talk about it.
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/ gameapologist

[@Narnes64]

It’s kinda interesting how Nine and Kit, despite both being opposites of Tails, are both opposites of each other. Kit is consumed by insecurities believing that if he isn’t with Surge then he was no reason to exist and Nine is Tails without those insecurities (well less of them)

[@SaiyanGamer95]

Not just that Kit believing he has no reason to exist without Surge, but was willing to throw himself in harm's way if it meant being helpful to someone, regardless of his own physical or emotional wellbeing. Nine seems like someone who would refuse to "support" someone, instead rather doing things on his own, not needing anyone.

[@overcomplicatedbr8219]

Yeah, like Tails's faults amplified turns him into Kit and Tails's faults taken away turns him into Nine.

[@insertnamehere1398]

nine is fulll of himself and hates everyone else overr it. and kit hates himself and hates people because he thinks they're lying about liking him, but both stem from harsh learning enviornments and trust issues

[@iamthemouse4483]

Basically, Nine is Tails' opposite, while Kit is his contra-positive

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

Ah yess

[@silveryuno]

I say this before and I will say it again... Seeing Nine in Sonic Prime made me realize why Eggman is happy Tails only ever follows Sonic around. "Wasting his potential", in Eggman's own words. The Doctor would not be able to handle Sonic and Nine taking turns fighting him.

[@kyotanaka920]

Tails was always extremely smart. Should be no surprise the egghead's afraid of him since in SA2, the thought of Sonic dying made Tails try to murder his ass on a mech equal to Eggman's, likely made in a cave using scraps. Nines is just Tails if they actually went through with Tails' "losing his mind" bit in Sonic Forces.

[@StevenJones851]

​@@kyotanaka920i like this analysis

[@Scorchlette]

@@kyotanaka920 "likely made in a cave using scraps." something something something iron man 1

[@jurassictay1235]

Tails Can fight his own battles to like In Sonic Adventure 1, he took eggman on alone and won

[@simmertoddler1632]

​@@jurassictay1235 yeah but he's still less of a threat than he could be

[@porobotboyxxx]

I know 9 isn’t a hugging kind of guy, but he desperately needs one.

[@nanachilover7289]

Yes he does indeed

[@porobotboyxxx]

@@nanachilover7289 We should get Vanilla to do it.🤗🥰😏

[@nanachilover7289]

@@porobotboyxxx yes absolutely or if you wanna mix other show based universes you can also have either cosmo from sonic x or zooey from sonic boom hug nine

[@Waisowol]

He doesn't need a hug, he needs a whole lot of therapy (i won't really help either kek)

[@TsuriaDragon]

He needs more then just one I definitely hug him over and over again 😊

[@overcomplicatedbr8219]

Nine and Shadow were definitely the best part.

[@sarahhenry3607]

Knuckles sucker punching Nine was the best

[@stinkypitz0005]

I'm still mad that Rouge wasn't utilized like tails was. Nine is great and I wouldn't take away from him, but come on. Sonic's best friend is the major antagonist in the later half of the show but they can't give the "Sonic counterpart" Shadow a single scene with his best friend?

[@vi6ddarkking]

I still love the line from Scourge To Archie Sonic. "All it would take is one really bad day. And you'd be. Just. Like. Me."

[@ToaArcan]

Eh, I don't think it really lands when Archie's Sonic has worse days than Scourge ever had throughout pretty much his entire life. Like the time he was framed for murdering his own girlfriend. Or the time he was turned into a robot and burned his home down, and then had to go and find the guy that captured him because everyone thought he did it on purpose. Or the time he had to sacrifice himself to save the world, got yote across the galaxy, and by the time he came back a whole year had passed and everything had gone to shit. Hell, like three days after Scourge gave that speech, Eggman nuked Knothole and tried to turn everyone in it into biofuel, and gave Charmy permanent brain damage. It's not like Sonic lives in the land of milk and honey.

[@vi6ddarkking]

@@ToaArcan Oh but it lands. Especially after Sonic had a flash back to tha very conversation right after Antoine got blasted into a coma. It was part of Sonic's character development at the time. The fact that he refused to fall to the dark side, neither by rage nor by despair.

[@darkhorse744]

Didn't Sonic almost immediately counter him and call him out.

[@vi6ddarkking]

@@darkhorse744 He did. But it would be quite a few issues before Sonic's bravado was truly put to the test.

[@darkhorse744]

@@vi6ddarkking Kk, thanks.

[@Ozymandias2x]

The third season weirded me out. They had tons of time to explore the various consequences of the situation, and instead they filled it with repetitive fight scenes wherein pretty much nothing is accomplished. And then the final episode felt like they ran out of time.

[@Bird-wz7nx]

Its like the writers gave them two episodes, went out for milk, and left the fight choreographers with the ENTIRE SEASON

[@sumnahlennon5449]

So the Final Episode was intentional according to the writer. To say "Sonic is always on an adventure." Everything is a cliffhanger

[@Ozymandias2x]

@@sumnahlennon5449 That literally doesn't address any of the many issues I had with it.

[@Graphomite]

@@sumnahlennon5449 That's an excuse. Having a happy ending and loose ends leaves a story that doesn't manage to be realistic or satisfying.

[@sarahhenry3607]

I wanted to start a drinking game for every time I saw Nine growl and say "I must have Sonics power!"

[@lightyearpig12]

Tails: There's a difference between you and me, Nine. We both looked into the abyss. But when it looked back, you blinked.

[@johnnygyro2295]

I get the reference, but shouldn't Tails be the one speaking to Nine?

[@lightyearpig12]

@@johnnygyro2295 Thank you for pointing that out.

[@johnnygyro2295]

@@lightyearpig12 You're good.

[@dexteradams6515]

Tails never looked into the abyss. He was too busy watching Sonic.

[@misterzygarde6431]

I would be down to see Nine throw down with Secret History Tails. Like one’s a version of Tails without Sonic while the other is murderously obsessed with Sonic.

[@SilverSaiyanAce]

I feel like one of them would easily manipulate the other and betray them ending things really quickly. I don't know which one it would be but I don't think the actual fighting part would be as entertaining as the actual character dynamics

[@Grim-death]

That is a odd yet good fight I would love to see

[@PlebNC]

Secret History Tails would win because what are friends for.

[@SuperWorldJumper]

@@PlebNCS.H. Tails: “What are friends for?” Nine: “NOBODY has friends here. We’re ALL on our own.”

[@pindowthegreat]

If that version of Amy was able to kill him that easily, nine would have absolutely no problem with him.

[@B-Dawgg]

Rouge wasn't the stand in for Sally. That random, NPC freedom fighter who suddenly got a speaking role to call out Sonic, only to be silenced by Dr Deep with "who are you?" - that was Sally.

[@portobeIIa]

Indeed, and im gonna need some context for that character, because "funny background character has a personality? Whhat?" Is not enough!! I hate her! What the hell was that? She feels like one of the writers had a kid that wanted to voice act for prime reaaaally bad so they just threw in a random literal npc to have some voice lines. It's not like shes the very needed voice of the New Yoke citizens/the rest of the resistance as well, i feel like that's what she was supposed to be in writing but it just got so fumbled.

[@darkhorse744]

@@portobeIIa Nah, pretty sure she was getting the "Who are you" treatment for a lot of the series. P sure she's a joke character.

[@extremmefan7305]

@@portobeIIa So, uh, you're kinda not off, only it's not a kid, it's (apparently?) a famous YTer. Small difference. :P

[@TwiliPaladin]

​@extremmefan7305 Oh hey Extrem. Wasn't expecting to find you here.

[@extremmefan7305]

@@TwiliPaladin sup twilight

[@-KORAL_ZERO]

I've always thought Tails could beat Sonic if he tried. People will act like he's useless or that he's weak. Did we all forget this man made A WHOLE CHAOS EMERALD?? He could probably make a super emerald if he wanted to (Which would be a nice way to make hyper sonic come back, I might use this for a game idea.)

[@aaronimp4966]

Technically not what he did; it has the same wavelength and properties, but less power.. but your point still stands.

[@StevenJones851]

Nine is Tails Full Potential Unleashed

[@random_me666]

Sonic.EXE Spirits Of Hell Part 3 FINAL ROUND. Tails and Eggman create super emeralds for Shadow to clash head on to Super Exterior.

[@andrewscruggs7896]

@@aaronimp4966if he made one, he could make more. He could theoretically achieve the energy necessary to go hyper if he used like dozens of these fake emeralds.

[@aaronimp4966]

@@andrewscruggs7896 Correct. If I were making the games, I would say he probably needs nine fake Chaos Emeralds for super, 27 for hyper, but ultimately it's Sega's call how many you need. That said, I get the idea that making a fake Chaos Emerald takes lots of time and possibly some expensive resources, because to my knowledge he only ever made one. Edit: missing info.

[@aaronimp4966]

Nine's first confrontation with Sonic was the first thing I saw from this show, and it instantly got me hooked. I immediately understood who he was, what made him tick, eith the line, "how did you know about that? Also, that didn't happen." I was so thrilled to see that the writers understood Tails so well that they could perfectly execute a flawlessly mirrored "what-if" of him wherein you could see exactly what made them both tick, what made them alike, and what few things made them radically different. It's the kind of grasp of character that I want so desperately craving in this show. I probably won't get to watch the second two seasons. But what they did with most of the elements of season 1 is exactly what I would have asked of a modern Sonic TV show.

[@Solesteam]

Nine nearly beat Sonic *_on his first try..._* He didn't even know Sonic very well... His potential as an antagonist was far beyond any (canonical?) Eggman...

[@DipperPines1986]

Sonic didn't fight him at full strength

[@TIWANDUB]

​@@DipperPines1986 same for Nine

[@TIWANDUB]

Nine is a great character ❤

[@Game_Hero]

SaTAm Robotnik : allow me to introduce myself as I pluck you one feather at at time before roboticizing you.

[@TIWANDUB]

@@Game_Hero Nine : hold my metal tails

[@LuisRPG8]

I've been replaying Sonic Chronicles and I really love how Tails is written there, it really shows a bit of that Tails without Sonic but as a good guy. At the start of the game, Sonic left to explore the world by himself after Eggman's most recent defeat, Tails stayed home and sort of grew up a bit, helping others when needed and getting to be the one that gets stuff done, GUN even sought out his help by the start of the game. He guides you trough most of the earlygame as he brings Sonic up to speed on what happened in his absence, you'd think it stops there but even after he joins the party and trought preety much the whole game, he's still for the most part the one who comes up with plans and solutions, he makes important devices on short notice if not on the fly, his Power Moves involve all kinds of devices that aid the Party. At one point the Party has to split into two to play out a plan to take down the bad guys, the first is led by Sonic and the other by Tails, he ends up making technology that counters the antagonists' tech, something he did doubt he'd be able to at the start of the game. Btw he is also actually capable of repairing Omega in this game, y'know, if that means anything. Wonder how that specific Tails would interact with Nine

[@gtcproductions4097]

Nine’s redemption felt extremely hollow

[@Bird-wz7nx]

Yeah, I mean, it kinda had to happen that way in terms of order of events with them restoring the worlds, but Nine was a perfect analog for how a lack of faith in others is a road to self harm. He was literally at the point where he was about to crack and choose mutually assured destruction, just to be right and show that he couldn't trust others, instead of just letting anyone in. They just bungled a perfectly good and palatable "Don't commit Game Over" message for kids. And after they spent a literal entire season with that being the entire conflict. Such a whimper of an ending

[@radwolf76]

"Shouldn't they just call him 'Heads'?" NO! Dear Lord NO! Do not give that kind of ammunition to this fandom.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

so... no Heads?

[@CptJistuce]

His name is Kilometers Prower. Nine is a nickname.

[@h.k982]

Yeah, don't give heads to the fandom,

[@KazShiro]

Oh hell no anything but that.

[@murilo_the_lilo9947]

​@@CptJistuceMiles 'tails' Prower when Kilometers 'heads' Porsecon walks in:

[@Crow_Rising]

I like the idea of Nine sticking around as a sort of Anti-hero character. He's not outright evil, he does have well meaning intentions, he's just misguided. I can imagine him forming a sort of pseudo alliance with the main group in that while he mostly prefers to go his own way and do his own thing, he doesn't actively try to undermine them and they don't actively try to get in his way either. His presence could be an interesting way of Tails learning to keep himself in check, slowly growing to be more independent but not allowing himself to go so far with it as to end up like Nine. I feel like Tails and Nine parallel each other in that they have the same thing holding them back; themselves. While this is touched up on in the video regarding Tails, I'm convinced it's true for Nine as well, just for a different reason. With Tails, his friendly personality and reliance on others are what hold him back from his full potential. With Nine, he's held back from his full potential by his own solitary nature and hubris. He's more dangerous than Tails, but every bit as inept at achieving great things due to him taking it too far and lashing out against others. Tails at his absolute peak would therefore probably be somewhere in the middle between the two. Temper his hubris with his strong bonds to others, but without preventing him from standing on his own two feet. He does need to be more independent, just without taking it so far as to push others away and ending up alone. Being able to take care of yourself and make your own decisions doesn't mean you can't have strong bonds with others, and that I think is the biggest lesson Sonic's been trying to teach Tails for all the time he's known him.

[@nicholassgobero]

So The Peak Tails would be what Frontiers sets him up to do?

[@SoulHero7]

@@nicholassgobero If Frontiers follows through on Tails actually learning to stand on his own as his own consistent hero, then that would be the perfect redemption of his character.

[@OfflineDisconnected]

I’ve heard that fans didn’t receive Sonic Prime very well. The way I see it, it’s because there are differing factions within The Sonic Community which of course leads to differing opinions. That said, if you ask me, Prime is the greatest thing to happen to Sonic since the live action films. The storytelling done here as well as the opportunity for character arcs and developments are things the games haven’t quite been able to do as effectively since the early days. The way they turned Tails (Nine) into the big bad was truly based on character. Who he is versus who Sonic initially wanted him to be. Coming to an understanding, the both of them come to know each other just as well as Sonic & Tails do. But through that, Sonic is able to better understand and even value Tails. Of course along the way, much the same can be said for the differing versions of the rest of his friends. But this was at its strongest between these two. If you ask me.. more Prime please! Oh and.. Cheers to you Mr.Apologist. Hope all is well! Same to the community too! - Ren Senpai

[@titanic_monarch796]

As far as I'm aware the reception at least that of I've seen is that it's kind of bland in terms of writing and story. But yes, it's way more of an actual game universe adaptation than it's prior sonic adaptations

[@overcomplicatedbr8219]

Although the "I am real" line hit so hard.

[@ligtningdog6399]

While it's true that the Sonic fandom is very, very fractured, the main reason why people didn't take to Prime was that is was too safe and simple for a multiverse story. It's literally just having the main cast but in generic costumes. Knuckles but he's a pirate. Amy but she's a jungle savage. Tails but from a dystopian future.

[@Soufriere84]

@@ligtningdog6399 That isn't an incorrect criticism, and I do think the world-building could/should have been handled better, but I strongly believe the show's pros outweigh the cons. Though Pirate-Knux is kind of, "Why?"

[@SonicSwift99]

The first two seasons were received pretty well but this third season is commonly agreed to be a let down.

[@plaguemockter7235]

Ian Flynn and Evan Stanley must have real sore backs from CARRYING this series right now

[@sonic5993]

But they weren't involved with the show

[@thegrouchization]

@@sonic5993 I think by "this series" they are referring to the Sonic franchise overall.

[@unknownmxn7683]

​@@ZoomerStasiyou really need to shut up for your own good

[@sonic5993]

@@ZoomerStasi ok

[@Frank-zb7zh]

Maybe for the regular fans, but the movies are what keeps this series in the eyes of the general audiences.

[@wildmonkeycar]

Nine was easily the highlight of Sonic Prime. Jeez, imagine if Sega loosened up on the reins a bit to let us have a game where Tails becomes the antagonist like this, and it leads Sonic on a really emotional journey that ends with him having to make a really tough decision Ah, but Sonic is a kid's franchise, we can't have anything deeper than "the power of friendship beats all"

[@murilo_the_lilo9947]

We really can. People just need to realise kids arent just dumb little gremlins (sometimes)

[@samiai8905]

I really wonder what happened behind the scenes bc I expected better from Man of Action. It looked like to me that Nine would’ve eventually went after Sails, Mangey, and OG Tails himself and gotten resolution there. It just feels like executive meddling I so hope we see more of this universe and the voice actors. Devan Mack was just AMAZING!

[@extremmefan7305]

Yea, I was hoping there would be more to the potential confrontation of Nine and Sails+Mangey than just Nine ordering them dead out of feeling like he's the "only me" and them managing to avoid an explosion only to end up manipulating the Grim Big from behind the scenes later. And the "prime" universe characters in general were just, ENTIRELY left behind. I watched to the end, hoping that maybe one of "ghosts" would eventually become "real" through sheer willpower, but that never happened and they were just flashback fodder. I'd LIVE for an interaction between Nine and og Tails.

[@JomaXZ]

I think this is more for budget reasons than "bad writing", but I WISH Nine showed more creativity in the final battle. We could have seen stuff like more original designs for the robots, not derivative ones ALL based on Chaos Sonic, and... Okay, this IS because of bad writing, more unique battle strategies than just sucking energy from the Paradox Prism when the robots got low on HP. CONSTANTLY. I like Nine as a character and a concept, but how he was ultimately handled left me (and seemingly a lot of us who watched Prime) just whelmed.

[@colesayshi8516]

They ended the show with the line, “Gotta go Fast!” I’m still taking lingering psychic damage.

[@ObaREX]

Nine was for real my favorite character in Prime (other than Shadow, of course). Just the way he used his genius to buff his already unique traits, his development with Sonic, and the way he was steadily built up through the series kept me invested. I do find the resolution to his character (and these series) to have been rather... Lack luster. But that only makes me wanna see him return even more.

[@SuperWorldJumper]

I’m curious, why “of course”? I liked Shadow too, but Nine was the standout to me. Why then was Shadow the most popular for some people?

[@Bird-wz7nx]

​@@SuperWorldJumper Because Shadow so rarely gets appearances that allow him to be dour but not a total asshole edgelord. They treated him pretty well here, for once! He was pretty aggressive at first, but he was angry because Sonic had damaged the universe by being careless in a way that Shadow regularly reprimands him for. But he was consistently helpful, often supportive and dropped a lot of his 2000's one liners. Total fan service.

[@ObaREX]

@@SuperWorldJumper More of an inside thing. Shadow has been one of my favorite characters ever and the way he was handled in the show was near perfect other than him being sidelined most of the time. While Nine felt like the character with the most depth in the entire show which only makes the lack of pay off for his character more painful.

[@JustaRandomDunce]

I think nine was actually inspired from a fan made webcomic. Its called "where was my hero" and fair warning, it does have gore. But its close to the same story nine went through. At the end, tails even gets NINE TAILS. seven of them robotic. THIS WAS RELEASED _BEFORE_ SONIC PRIME. It was just so surprising when I saw nine for the first time. You should read it, unless you don't like gore, that is.

[@nanachilover7289]

Yes i know that story and yeah i agree that nine is very similar to that version of tails

[@420jw]

WAIT IS THAT THE ONE WHERE TAILS KILLS IVO?

[@superrupee]

That's what I was thinking, that comic had me nearly crying by the end

[@i-dont-burn-under-the-sun]

Netflix ignoring consultants. Story old as time. (And when they do, One Piece level of success happens, shocking I'd say!) I didn't notice how few episodes of SatAM were actually made, puts everything in perspective.

[@mariocervantez2853]

Also nine is definitely my favorite character in the entire show.

[@GamingWarlord64]

Honestly sonic prime was really good. Not S Rank but I'll give it a solid B close to A

[@oscarkambouris2212]

Tails and Kit VS Nine would be sick as all hell

[@BDeerhead]

If you had an evil version of Tails named Heads, he would be a Hydra rather than a Kitsune.

[@jarPlays11]

The idea of tails being evil is so interesting

[@EditDeath]

May as well also add that the Grim is such a reflection of Nine that it reflects in Sonic's world-based powers. Sonic throws up literal walls, whereas Nine puts up metaphorical walls in his insecurity. It's also interesting how Nine winds up opposite to the Amys by the climax of the fight. They treat each other like sisters, but Nine can't stand the idea of not being unique

[@hattoripool1533]

I would pay to see a interaction with Nines and the multiple different versions of Tails throughout different Sonic continuities like the Games, comics and even cartoons (other then Sonic Prime)

[@Z-fighter126]

Do you know how badass it would be if Nine and Scourge teamed up? The Sonic verse would not stand a chance.

[@mcknightmareb4u494]

Call me crazy, but once the finale hit and I saw them, I realized I really missed Orbot and Cubot. I genuinely would have preffered if Mr. Dr. Eggman was the only Eggman, and the "comedy" provided by the council was left up to Orbot and Cubot. At least then they would've been forced to write more than one bad joke

[@greenstarlover1]

Yeah, I forgot they were even IN ths show.

[@dougbriglmen716]

The thing is, nine is not evil, troubled, and an antagonist for a brief period of time, but not evil.

[@greensoda123]

I never thought I would hear the Game Apologist talk about Rick and Morty but I am happy you did.

[@Bird-wz7nx]

If felt like a movie that just kept going and going. But if pacing was a Sonic property's ONE true flaw, then that's actually really good. Pretty harmless show, all in all.

[@sonic5993]

Glad someone finally appreciates something about this show.

[@Netherwolf6100]

This is something I've wanted since Archie teased Sonic vs Tails during the Acorn Kingdom coup d'etat. Tails as Sonic's villain would be perfect as, I've always said, Tails is by far the character with the most potential to surpass everyone in the series, only held back by his desire to help, rather than lead. He's as smart as Eggman, fast as Sonic, determined as Knuckles and capable as Shadow. If he were a true enemy to Sonic, it would be a seriously hard fought fight for sure and its something I truly wanted. The series does a good job kinda teasing at the idea, but it never goes all the way and that's the part that left me underwhelmed. I wanted there to be a way to bring in the Chaos Emeralds, maybe Sonic ends up at the bottom of the Void and finds them there. He'd use their powers to to Super and battle a Prismatic Tails in the empty space of the Shatterverse with their clash ultimately bringing about the near destruction of all their worlds before things are fixed. It is a shame that everything was undone and its a case of "it never happened" with only Sonic and Shadow remembering events, kinda like how Sonic is the only one to remember the events of 06 (Or at least its hinted that's the case) but hopefully, maybe some day Sega will let off the reigns a bit and allow writers to tell more captivating stories with Sonic and his friends again, like back during the Adventure Era, and learn to stop playing it so safe. I know they're still afraid of Penders and Takashi is such an ego-driven doofus that hard changes and advances for the Sonic series but God damnit, I really want character driven stories again and Frontiers was such a breath of fresh air in that department.

[@bmanxy3363]

once again, i watched this show for 9. I'm only ever entertained when he's on screen

[@daniellclary]

I always thought Tails could go far beyond Eggman in tech power if he got the resources together. Nine was a great demonstration of that. And I'm just ecstatic that a show actually gave the fox some screen time, and made stand up on his own. Also liked how Sonic actually had to need help, making other characters useful. So many other shows or games, other characters are useless, and Sonic just does everything easily. But yeah, the final battle I was wondering why are they fighting? They all want the same exact thing! Nine wants to stabilize the shatter space, and he is the only one that can do it. Instead of working with him, they fought against Nine, and end up doing the thing Nine wanted to do anyway. And then gaslight Nine into thinking he was wrong somehow.

[@lordx8844]

I really love shadow's voice actor in prime

[@beatziegraham6928]

This just reminds me that we could’ve had a cool Tails boss fight in Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World when Tails was controlled but nope.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

the writers truly fumbled the bag there, i'm 100% sure the dev team had no involvement in the story whatsoever, but man would it have been so cool to see...

[@jlev1028]

​@@kendraroth1276You're thinking too hard. Remember, those scenes were written by Pontac & Graff who don't care one shit about storytelling in Sonic games.

[@kendraroth1276]

@@jlev1028 There’s a full on analysis of this on Tumblr. But the gist is that, every time he believes Tails got brainwashed, Sonic began breaking down. In Sonic Prime, Nine was the only one who Sonic forgave for murder and throughout the Shatterverse, The Tails Variants were always the first ones that Sonic wanted to meet and get help from. Sonic also has more memories involving Tails, than anyone else. In Frontiers, when Tails declared that wanted to be away from Sonic for longer, Sonic only reluctantly accepted it because he didn’t want to say goodbye but also didn’t want to upset Tails. Sonic is also implied to have been thinking of Classic Sonic, when he was talking to Tails about growing up. After his Flanderization, Sonic began depending on Tails’s intellect more frequently. (Which if I remember correctly, is part of why he lost in the beginning of Forces. )

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

The alternate universes should have merged into the same universe and the alternate versions of the characters should have merged too. Nobody should have any knowledge or recollection of the events except for Sonic and Shadow since they were never split like the rest. The Egg Council should have disappeared too after returning to regular Eggman. If Green Hill became shattered and everyone was resorted to becoming ghosts of their former selves, then returning the crystal should have fixed all of that. Nine and the others should cease to exist but Sonic would somehow see part of Nine in Tails afterwards. If Sonic had to learn any lesson from this it's to appreciate and listen to his friends more instead of running off without thinking. Meeting Nine should teach Sonic to treat Tails better. Same goes for Amy, Knuckles, ect. I am dang sure that was the original plan and Sega or Netflix probably said no because it's meant for kids and they probably wanted to keep selling toys. That also explains the cliffhanger ending even though it's pretty much over despite leaving things open.

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@kendraroth1276 He had to return to Green Hill where the others were kept in limbo which is also where the crystal ended up again. that should have been a reset especially after Sonic somehow went back to a few seconds before the shatter and prevented it all from happening.

[@portobeIIa]

I agree. I feel like in these "time travel paradox/accidentally creating a multiverse" stories there are no stakes if your original verse can coexist with the others you made, and then there is no lesson to learn if you dont have to grapple with the fact that youll destroy these versions of people to bring bad the balance. It's not about morality or killing these alternate versions, its about creating an impactful story with fictional people to teach real people the lesson the main character learns. In concept? Great for a show. In practice, you have to anticipate corporate meddling with such a morally gray genre being applied to a KIDS show. I dont know ehat any of the creators were smoking when they thought that potentialy killing the entire cast of sonic would fly for a kids show lol. Lile there MUST have been other ways of making new skins for sonic speed simulator and other toys.

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@portobeIIa There is tension when you have characters dying or close to death or threatened with no longer existing. Sonic's sacrifice, Nine wanting things to stay the same instead of potentially being replaced with a version of himself that he hated, ect. There were stakes.

[@johanstenfelt1206]

Hm, how very interesting, i hope we get to see more of Nine at some point, Actually, how about a Sequel Show that solely focuses on the Shatterverse?

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

yes, yes, and more yesses. i'm not sure if the other characters like Cream or her mom, Silver, or any other character were to be affected by the Prism's radius, but i would love to see and explore more of those separate worlds

[@jdavis230]

They should do it. It would be a lot more interesting/engaging than just another generic sonic show with the same characters all over again

[@ConekillerConfuzor]

Appreciate you finding positives in this show. I k lw ots not what everyone wanted ot to be, but I found myself quite entertained more often than not with it. Nine was clearly a highlight.

[@supergamemaster2279]

We *NEED* more Nine in this franchise! If freaking *ZAOVK* can keep coming back, even in the comics, then so can an actually interesting and cool character like Nine!

[@wakeangel2001]

I always figured that if Tails didn't have Sonic he'd wind up conquering the world. Frankly I think Boom Tails showed this potential more than Kit or Miles. In Sonic Boom Tails worked for Eggman in the universe where Sonic didn't exist, and regular tails made inventions like his mind control robot that tried to conquer the world itself and even put organic brains into robotic duplicates of himself and his friends (and no matter what I think of there isn't a non messed up way to do that.)

[@jamainegardner4193]

Nine made me realize that if Tails was found by Eggman first he would've won in Sonic 3.

[@portobeIIa]

Nines in s3 absolutely TERRIFIED me. I was in anguish watching that (very padded) battle scene. But not because of the show... I just happened to watch too many of those very gory 3d my little pony animations when i was a child, crossovers with tf2 and everything. They would widen their eyes and have microscopic irises when they were about to do something gory. I think it traumatized me because whem Nine did that exact thing for the first time (and he does that a LOT) i felt a physical pit in my stomach and was subconsciously preparing myself to see nine punch someones intestines off with 144p blood everywhere. Like it really affected me, i think the animation for everyone, but specially for nine and knuckles the dread were duper uncanny in s3

[@97spartan]

I genuinely believe the whole series was testing whether or not they could work with the potential these characters have without losing what people come here for, every character they featured in their different iterations was playing with different aspects they could have Like even if they don’t ever bring back Nine, mangey and Sails this show was testing whether or not they could give those characteristics to him without losing him in it and I believe they did so successfully >basically Sonic prime was asking can we play with Tails intellect, his methods and his personality without losing Tails?

[@vi6ddarkking]

I mean we all know as smart as Tails is. He truly was always a wrong turn from falling into the dark side. Even game Tails had he not met Sonic when he did. Miles would have become one hell of an Enemy for the Blue Blur.

[@vi6ddarkking]

@@kendraroth1276 Ther is a video no KZbin named "Where Was My Hero? - Sonic comic dub". It tackles this very scenario, down to the extra artificial tails, funnily enough. It an excellent representation that if you beat some one down, for long enough, the snap back, is not going to be pretty. Especially when we're talking about, someone as intelligent as Tails.

[@LannyLeArtist]

The thumbnail is so pretty

[@Kailova07]

I was really bummed at how boring S3 was because I thought S1 brought a neat enough premise, and S2 had some really fun moments, but S3 really just had none of that. I think they just made some REALLY big blunders early on that set them up to have nowhere to go (like the only relevant shatterspace being New Yoke and everything and everyone else just not mattering or having anything to do). They went from Chaos Sonic who I thought was a fun change of pace to Grim Sonic who was a boring brick wall to hundreds of nothing robots. They went from fun action sequences that were short and focused to bland boring long large scale battle. I have so much to rant about now that I just finished this show, but the biggest question I’m left with is… what the heck happened? This show had so much going for it and then just completely dropped the ball. Absolutely wild.

[@Davanthall]

I wouldn't have even minded the way Prime turned out as much if they had just been upfront about the fact that it's a miniseries. Feel like they implied that it was gonna be a full series.

[@Soufriere84]

I'd say 23 episodes is a full series. Honestly wish it had gotten 26-30 to flesh out some stuff that was glossed over, but still… That's almost the same number of episodes as Sonic SatAM (26) and no one denies it's a full series.

[@Bofrab]

I personally love what if stories. It’s always fun for me whenever we see characters if their lives went in different directions. I know Marvel has quite a bit of them, but the main example I think of is Dragon Ball. Stuff like “What if Cell absorbed Krillen accidently?” “What if Frieza got to earth, but then met Devilman?” “What if Goku Black fully tapped into the power of Goku’s body?” “What if Raditz didn’t die during his fight with Goku and Piccolo?” I love this stuff!

[@chaoschannel3428]

1:24 No shot Sonic Boom had 104 episodes, it felt like WAY less than that💀

[@The-Great-Bukini]

I just finished the last season yesterday, I gotta say everything you said about it being drawn out and playing it safe is the most accurate description of this show. I think it could've benefited from 1 more season. Cause it seemed like there was a few things left to wrap up. I mean, where did Shadow take the prism and what does he plan to do with it now?

[@kingkazma3246]

Infinite should've been Nine underneath, it would've wrapped the Tails vs Sonic thing nicely as it was hinted at in Sonic Colors and Lost World!

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

I do love how the alternate characters and universes were expanded on. It made it more interesting for characters and settings that would otherwise be extremely generic no doubt because of Sega's mandates preventing any real new characters or big twists.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

what made me lose interest in this series is how the characters don't show enough emotion, you know for a fact Sonic would've punched Nine in the face after... you know... *that* scene after both Tails were blown right in front of Sonic. but that's just on me, not everything needs to be super serious, it is what it is

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL The characters tear up a little and you can hear the pain and frustration in Sonic's voice. There's plenty of emotion, way more than Frontiers, Forces, or Boom Sonic.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

@@MacUser2-il2cx guess i keep forgetting... i suppose my only wish is for SEGA to be less restrictive of their emotions and let them shine more

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL I think Sonic Team might need someone new in charge or a new director.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

@@MacUser2-il2cx not Sonic Team, from what i heard it's SEGA making Sonic characters have all these rules about "they shouldn't cry" "shadow should always be a loner" or something like that

[@KingofBeasts444]

I love how rational you are about it

[@evolvingdragon1793]

Honestly I hope we see prime as a game like frontier imagine using all the power to explore each world or using the power of the world to help explore the other Edit or using them in attacks

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

sorry, it's already canon, wether you like it or not. takes place after Sonic Advance 3 ...or so they say. it's more of a marketing strategy, but you can make up your own headcanon.

[@evolvingdragon1793]

@@kaxcommentssomethingREAL I get that but you can't tell me the idea isn't cool. I mean think about riding the wave in No Place like you would dunes in a dessert. Boscage maze can be more parkour focus jumping from tree to tree, grinding on roots and swinging on vines. The Grim can be combat focused since what else could you do. All while New York city gives you a more classical experience.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

@@evolvingdragon1793 man, straight up awesome

[@awesomezaucegames8826]

I thnk the biggest gripe i have with prime is that instead of being creative and pushing the characters multivers counterparts into interesting directions along the same lines as Nine (basically being Tails without sonic and without doubts). instead of 'theme of the week'. (I think a Knuckles who hoards all of the chaos emeralds and master emerald could be an interestinig idea. Hoarder of the Master Emerald. something like that)

[@zadock6370]

I personally enjoyed the show. I also thought the idea that tails has the potential to be the strongest entity of the entire universe being pretty spot on. tails has shown to outwit eggman on several occations, so tails and theoretically be smarter than eggman but just isn't using it. when he ends up using everything he has, he could potentially be the most powerful sonic character in the main universe (excluding godlike beings)

[@pedrocastro5514]

Nines was the best character to me in that series, it would be awesome to still have him around for some other adventures, sometimes as an antagonist of sorts, sometimes as the "evil" ally that does what the heroes wouldn't, and it would be very itneresting if he were to meet the main Tails or have a sort of duel with eggman :p

[@Soufriere84]

Honestly, I enjoyed Sonic Prime, and Nine was one of the reasons. It's another one of those "Sonic f'ked up BIG TIME and has to deal with it" stories… Unsurprisingly, I saw Ian Flynn's name in the credits in at least one early episode. As for Tails/Nine himself, he's a neat character study on what can happen to a bullying victim who got no help and is also a mechanical genius. _Yikes._ While the show isn't perfect, it's a concept that the Sonic-verse benefited from exploring.

[@madzman7214]

We rarely see it nowadays when someone rises above the hero's shadow or becomes their antagonist I'm now curious how Sally going down Nines path would look 🤔

[@TronicSSJ07]

I think Nine is pretty similar to the Insomniac version of Doc Ock. A character who hates someone because they think they hold them back or prevent them from getting what they want. I wish Nine’s story ended with him losing the same way Octavious lost to Spider-Man, paralyzed on the floor, his tails rendered useless and he gets left to die by Sonic.

[@bruceisthemain4518]

YESSSS FINALLY MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED❤❤

[@Cybersomnia]

I know a lot of people hate Nine, but he's honestly crazy and shows a side of Tails that is genuinley dangerous and capable of seriously rivaling Eggman just by himself

[@onijester56]

What I think should have happened is that Season 2 ends or even Season 3 begins with The Chaos Council getting the Paradox Prism... thus focusing on the consistent villains and not having Nine be a total frickin' idiot. Even if they changed nothing else, this would have made it less of a problem to have it repetitive. Hell, the series ends with Sonic and Nine making the same wish on the Paradox Prism that Sonic said he wanted to make all the way in Season 1: Sonic gets to go home and Nine can stay alone in his isolated universe. However, they could have also used Nine's "desire to be left alone" to explore the consequences of the Paradox Prism

[@jaydenaryan2425]

I loved Sonic Prime, I don't think it was long or boring at all.

[@YourUncleBenis]

I feel like Nine's character arc would've hit better if they didn't have him reform at the end. Idk, just feels like his concept was way better than execution. Though if you're curious about how the Shatterspaces work, I did make some theories in a Tumblr post that I'll link in a reply to make sure KZbin doesn't lose this comment in the spam filters. Basically, I think they aren't a traditional multiverse setup, and how they MIGHT work explains a lot of writing oddities about the show(like always referring to their world as Green Hill). Feel free to steal its content for a video, cause I ain't making a Prime video anytime soon.

[@CesarACastillo]

What I like explained is how Mangey avoided eating his friends. A primitive version of Miles would be a meat eater and look what are his friends made of? That’s right delicious meat. Hedgehogs (Amy) bats (Rouge) Echidnas (Knuckles) and Cats (Bigs) are all on a fox’s menu. The writers seemed to avoid this outcome at first by exploiting the fact that foxes are omnivores and will eat berries just as much as meat. However Foxes are also opportunistic hunters. If no other food can be found they’ll eat whatever they can get their paws on.

[@tracyndiyob162]

think the hobbit is a good personification of prime as it should've been a shorter story just being it's own thing(rather than very badly trying to connect it to the games.) instead of stretching it out leaving the bold implications ignored(esp. the multiverse angle that felt unexplored,the friends seeing their counterparts/seeing more of them,nines punishment for his pretty horrible actions and the shatterspace eventual fate.). but really loved shadow(reminded me of iori from the king of fighters a bit.) and especially nines as he felt like if they did more with tails after sonic's disappearance in forces instead of being a wuss to things he fought easily without sonic before,did bring in his concept of being a young kitsune also being the opposite of kit who was dependent on surge being instead in deep rather unsettling pain from sonic viewing him as a tails instead of his own version that i hope the main series brings him in having him/some of the other counterparts(as i loved the different amy's.) meet main tails as they should've met.(alongside having other sega series that was rumored for prime back then.)

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

The first thing I saw in Nine, and still see in him now that Sonic Prime is over, was a comparison between him and a fanmade version of Tails built on the same basis as Nine: Miles from Where Was My Hero? In that version, Miles was just as isolated as Nine, but he still held onto hope that everything could be okay. Even after his bullies destroyed Miles's twin tails, he still tried to stay positive and even found family in a Flicky he found... Until like that of Lucy in Elfen Lied, they slaughtered the poor bird for kicks. And that is what causes Miles to snap, murdering the bullies in cold blood, and turning him into an even more heinous antagonist than Nine would be allowed to be shown as. But even then, after his fight with his Sonic, he loses, not because he eventually let up, but because he let himself lose and rid himself of the apocalypse he had caused.

[@AllThatJazz94]

I truly feel Nine has a ton of potential outside of the show. Like if the next Sonic game brings him back for a possible solo Tales run they teased in Frontiers. Despite the finale’s, uh . . . issues, Nine still is the biggest and best takeaway from the show in my opinion. I hope he’s not forgotten.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

It's so weird to me how most people who watched the show seem to think any of the counterparts got underused. I thought basically all of them had their moments to shine and pretty clear arcs

[@richardklein1167]

Nine is the most evil villain in Sonic's history because he gets the chaos emeralds and holds time and space for ransom, "In the name of a hero's friendship!" So yeah... Sonic can't beat him with the emeralds or another anime's friendship power trope.

[@DipperPines1986]

I really hoped that Nine would absorb the Prism's energy to become Super and fight Sonic and co personally. It would be much cooler than a battle with an army of identical robots and Nine shooting lasers.

[@user-ld2dp4gl6s]

Also sonic prime is gonna get a comic in November 2024😊

[@roxbox6721]

Never understood why they didn't make the different sonic shows part of the separate universes, would be cool to see Sally Acorn and the other cast of freedom fighters.

[@Peasham]

My favorite thing about the fanbase's.. opinions, let's call them, about Sonic Prime is people stating that Sonic here is out of character. And well, no, lmao. His character here is the exact same as meta era Sonic. Now one could say "but I dislike meta era Sonic!", and I would agree. You know who else would? The show itself, as its whole point is a critique of that Sonic! But even if you were unaware of Sonic's prior characterization and simply dislike this Sonic, the show's got ya covered too, as it makes it instantly obvious that this version of Sonic is gonna go through trials and tribulations and develop into a better person. Truly, the lack of media literacy with some grown adults is stunning lmao.

[@SpiritWolfeMoon]

All I can say is, the ending made me feel upset however thank you for pointing out one of the best characters in the show.

[@SuperLuis225]

Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty good, lil repetitive when they kept reminding us how we got here but they were alright... ...season 3 was as follows: Characters fight bad guys. Start losing. Sonic says "We need to fight them, TOGETHER!" they all charge. They fight the bad guys. Then repeat the process... for 6 episodes... no seriously

[@ivancabrera3289]

I remember way before sonic prime was announced there was a web comic about what would happen if tails never met sonic and he looked a lot like nine but way edgier 😅 but yeah tails would be a menace as a villain

[@ugxsan]

As someone that came here with no idea what you're talking about, legit didn't even know Prime was a thing, I'm looking at these character designs and going "oh wow! That's really cool! I imagine there are so many cool ideas they could run with for this design and a lot of interesting backstory and..." and then it just kinda ends without getting into any of that and just kinda wrapping the plot anticlimactically? Sounds like a huge waste of potential.

[@theaxxorite9415]

Tails has been Sonic's enemy since the sonic 2 special stages

[@XX-sp3tt]

I like Sonic Underground's music. And I hate how they didn't get a proper finale.

[@AshtonHenry900]

See,my season 2 comment was right!!!

[@epaeneter]

I'd like to see Kit vs Nine, seems like an interesting battle.

[@merrialicehobbs5344]

What I think should've happened is that after it all ends the alternate realities get a sonic for each one. Along with evil tails I would've wanted to see an evil sonic as well. Or they could have explored more dimensions or went to a world where sonic is evil. I think that would've been cool

[@jurassictay1235]

Nine Is not an evil Tails he doesn't have any friends to talk to and new yolk city Is a sad place nine can be good he just need a friend in need

[@cubedtothex]

I’d love a Nine spinoff of some sorts, but we’ll probably never see him again.

[@marcelolopes735]

I expected for from the guy in the fight but all he could do is: -spamming robot clones -more and more robots -Big giant robot -more robots -Alot more robot clones -Lazers/bulletw and shield -EVEN MORE ROBOTS Not gonna lie i expected even more from the guy but all he can do is spam robots everywere it felt so...dry like milk. And it got bored. And then he doew some menacing poses i tought he was gonna FINALLY do something awesome But nope. More robots to clone😐

[@Rojae-wc8xe]

What’s the this sonic song I know from Sonic Forces, but I don’t know what specific song it is

[@silveramyknux241]

0:05 I still don’t get the hate the battle got. It felt more natural that it lasted a while, and we got some interesting character moments.

[@greensoda123]

Ok this is pretty epic Now where is why Antoine matters. Swear that guy I see still get hate even after his evolution in the archie comics. Like probably the most disliked Freedom Fighter from my knowledge. I mean people wanted Archie to kill him off.

[@SilverSaiyanAce]

So you're actually going to be talking about the Grim/Alpha robot copies? I want to know what your thoughts are on the first mainstream duplicates that aren't the main 4 characters IE Rouge Big and The Flicky bot. I can't wait to see what you think about it

[@TBoneTony]

Nine being Sonic's twist villain enemy was perhaps one of the best parts of Sonic Prime, kinda lame how the final 3rd of the series stretched it out in a really pointless conclusion as even with the shards completed, there wasn't any real consequence to Sonic bringing his own original universe together. It would have given Nine a clear reason to avoid that if there was a serious consequence.