How The Escalating U.S.-China Tech War Could Hurt American Companies

[@themiddlekingdom9121]

Gina Raimondo, the U S Commerce Secretary said that Chinese used the U S made chips to install in their weapons, doesn't the U S use the importation of Chinese rare earth minerals to make weapons as well.

[@iamjvmac]

Well unfortunately if the US has weapons it's not deemed dangerous or a threat to the world bc they think they are the guardians of peace.

[@7hx89]

Chinese weapons do not need or use “the most advanced” chip like NVDA gpu. What she has stated doesn’t make sense.

[@heroldmutebi8200]

​@@7hx89Exactly..even Intel's latest CPU's are still on 10nm tech. The Neo-cons in the US simply suffering from extreme paranoia.

[@tooltalk]

>> , doesn't the U S used the importation of Chinese rare earth minerals to make weapons as well.

[@tooltalk]

@@7hx89 >> Chinese weapons do not need or use “the most advanced” chip like NVDA gpu

[@mintheman7]

“China made the first move in 2014 by trying to become self-reliant…” What? How is “trying to become self reliant” a declaration of a trade war? I don’t get the logic.

[@pmendonca10]

The logic is that the US wanted them to be always depending on the BullS... they would be willing to sell them... Aparently in China they have other ideas...

[@alwaysloveorange]

错在没有跪下。安格鲁撒克逊人应该永远是老大。

[@tooltalk]

@@pmendonca10 >> The logic is that the US wanted them to be always depending on the BullS..

[@loongsiu4766]

@@tooltalk if you had any knowledge about these places that you mentioned, you should know that they are all colonies of the Yankees, the Yankees say yes, these places never dare to say no😂 and China which used to be a master of these countries just dont want to be another dog of the white in east Asia, simple as that.😁

[@jetli740]

trade war US started not china, get ur fact right

[@JogBird]

Nuclear power, GPS, space station, chips for supercomputers, etc.. things that USA have restricted to china.. next up chips

[@donkeychan491]

Their bans have merely turbo-charged China's development. China should welcome these bans.

[@alanssshh]

yes

[@heroldmutebi8200]

Oxygen 😂

[@michael511128]

The biggest US contribution to the world in 2023 is making us laugh so hard 😂 when Huawei released the Mate 60.

[@JigilJigil]

You wumaos are the best.

[@amos325]

@@JigilJigil1450

[@hink0027]

@@JigilJigil same with you cia dogs hahhahah

[@露透社]

@@JigilJigil1450

[@alanssshh]

true

[@yojimbo3681]

"It's about national security" If preventing another country from achieving equal technology is a matter of national security, that says more about you than them.

[@dijikstra8]

Especially a country that hasn't been to war since the 70's. China is not a military threat to the west, but it is a threat to US economic hegemony, and that's what they're trying (and failing) to protect. These are the throes of a dying empire desperately trying to stay relevant, not by improving itself but by trying to make it harder for the other guy.

[@markvanderknoop131]

​@@dijikstra8 mainly because they weren't allowed to build an army.

[@dijikstra8]

@@markvanderknoop131 Are you confusing Japan and China here? Japan is the country that wasn't allowed to build an army as a condition of their surrender after WWII.

[@markvanderknoop131]

@dijikstra8 no I'm not confusing those 2.

[@WXRBL666]

the military doesn't need 7nm or lower fab, at a certain point the need for electromagnetic stability and reliability outweighs the need for pure processing capacity. China already has independent 28nm fabrication ability and is working towards 14nm, the military excuse is just red scare.

[@waslotaliam5119]

😂😂they are currently on 5nm, next year 2024 it will be 3nm.. before the end of 2024 they might reach 1nm or further

[@wonderland2016]

@@waslotaliam5119 with your help. it could well achieve by tomorrow

[@musafawundu6718]

It doesn't need it. But they can use it. But they can use it, that's the point. And technology is ever progressing. Because the United States insists on world dominance that comes through possession and control of the most advanced technology in the world, it tries to prevent rivals from being in possession of it.

[@MetaView7]

Exactly. The brand new British aircraft carriers are still using Windows95.

[@musafawundu6718]

@@MetaView7 yes, but if that is the case, it's beyond crazy...

[@Stephen-we6do]

China: Wants to develop better technology. US: OMG, they started a trade war.

[@thesheepthemightythecrazy]

Propaganda doesn't work with logic. Kinda sad we get this level of BS on a national news channel.

[@a55tech]

no matter who started it, US kinda funny thinking it can fight in the long run w/ the population difference. Euro companies won't always fall in line w/ US once there's more money to be made elsewhere.

[@RoyClendaniel]

China wants to steal better technology. There, fixed it for you.

[@takedown243]

The only solution that can save the US in this tech competition against China is to simply give every Chinese STEM international students in the US a green card and make them stay, pay them well. Otherwise they go back to china and contribute China.

[@Ashnesss]

The US is the country that declared way by reacting to everything that China does and sanctioning China. The US has a habit of claiming that countries are declaring war, when all those countries are doing is what’s best for them and forging their own way. It’s not the job of the US to be triggered by everything or react to everything. The US is too unsophisticated to deal with China.

[@CheeLiekHo]

To us a consumer , do I really worry about the technical details of 7 versus 3 nm? To us it is the overall performance and dollar value. The other mistake is Chinese cannot innovate. Huawei's 5 G is leading the world. If pushed they can do it. It is also the symbiotic relationship. For US and Taiwan their R&D is possible with good revenues. They needed a market to get this revenue. Cutting of their biggest market will meant China will turn inwards. This might delay China a few years but once it develop its own ecosystem it will be the end of the US chip industry. China will export cheap EUVs and Chips. Remember the Space station fiasco? Banned China and China now has its own space station.

[@syncmaster915n]

Well said!

[@walden6272]

The US also forced China to build its own GPS system. And China did and it's far more advance than the one US has. Necessity is the mother of all innovation.

[@马可-c8n]

🤫Shh, don't let American politicians know these facts

[@ivand0007]

Can't innovate? 😂😂😂😂

[@jeanlaikan8400]

One of the founders of Nvidia is Chinese. Taiwanese are Chinese. The Biden administration is short sighted. No sale to their largest customer = less revenue = less R&D = less innovation.

[@Trexfreestyle1991]

This is 'Free Market' of American Imperialism

[@darthvadeth6290]

Americans love the "free" market when they were the ones winning. As soon as a foreign company or country is winning, they use the full force of US government to destroy that company or country. Look up "anti-Japanese movement in 70s and 80s in the United States" for a great example 😂

[@donkeychan491]

They believe in free markets until they get outcompeted, at which point they stop believing in it. Similar with human rights, and all the other nonsense they talk.

[@alanssshh]

LOL

[@cinpeace353]

Losing Chinese market not only affects company profits, it also means low R&D budgets. In long run, US chip industry will suffer.

[@tooltalk]

>> Losing Chinese market not only affects company profits, it also means low R&D budgets.

[@richardlo4867]

​@@tooltalkEquating the massive R&D required for chip development with rare earth....😂

[@tooltalk]

@@richardlo4867 >> Equating the massive R&D required for chip development with rare earth....😂

[@Rex-ww4cw]

​@@tooltalk no way you're using rare earth as an example for semiconductor. Refining rare earth materials dosen't need huge R&D cost, semiconductor does 😂

[@tooltalk]

@@Rex-ww4cw : feel free to comment on my response to @richardlo4867 earlier.

[@simony276]

These politicians are living in their own reality that China can’t breakthrough the technology by their own efforts. 🤣😂😅

[@zenden9]

China bribe many US think tank to misled US leaders. Like Gordan Chang assure US politician to let China join WTO becos China can only made cheap and low quality products that cant compete with superior made in USA... Guess what happened. Gordan Chang is actually a undercover CCP member working for US.

[@douglaswong6975]

Zombie

[@zenden9]

@@douglaswong6975 anti China shxt like you must be very angry of the prowess. 🤣

[@RoyClendaniel]

They will always be 10 years behind the west with EUV technology. The expertise needed to make that equipment is a rare commodity.

[@zenden9]

@@RoyClendaniel lol.. they already make 7nm chips and going for 5nm chips this year. You can keep delude yourself with yr statement. Human are flexible. If there is no Petrol to the ICE car, then they will use electricity to run an EV. As simple as that. To blindly think that only EUV works is your biggest mistake.

[@TheKkpop1]

It's a short term pain for China and US but a long term pain for US.

[@OfficialGapTV]

So basically what you just said is it’s a short term pain for China but a short AND long term pain for the US???

[@JigilJigil]

illusional wumao.

[@qfzpjm159]

Because after the chip war, Chinese chip buyers will avoid buying chips from the United States or even other countries because they don’t want to go through the nightmare of high-priced purchases when sanctions were first imposed. Secondly, engineers don’t want to go through the nightmare of restructuring the framework again. For chip manufacturers in the United States and other countries, once trust is lost, it will be difficult to win the favor of buyers no matter how low the price is, which means they will not have orders from China. Secondly, this is a golden era for Chinese chip manufacturers. As long as they are willing to work hard and cooperate with the buyers' engineers at all times, they will receive a steady stream of orders and have the funds to develop better products. (By the way, if something happens to the chip, you will get real-time feedback if you contact the Chinese manufacturer; if you contact the foreign manufacturer, you may have to wait a week before getting feedback. This kind of after-sales service will make buyers favor Chinese manufacturers more)

[@RoyClendaniel]

Don't think so. The US is moving production to the Americas where we don't need to worry about dictatorial governments stealing all our IP.

[@shadowslayer9988]

The United States is currently $33.83 trillion in d3bt I think there are important things to worry about.

[@Soras_]

It will be longer term issues and would slow down technological development in long term

[@alvatrosl8963]

And the worst part you can't know to whom 😢

[@Pr0toPoTaT0]

Why should i care about U.S. Companies when they dont care about me?

[@MattCampbell-jr9ey]

I HEAR THAT BROTHER!

[@xiphoid2011]

You will never survive in China then because Chinese companies consider workers even more expendable. Being a Chinese, this is the problem I see with Americans, you don't appreciate how good you have it, which is why you will lose it.

[@zhenwenlu2607]

Yes, ban the sales of any chips to China. Let them create a captive market for their own homegrown semi-conductor companies. After all, China is the world's largest buyer of semi-conductors. Great American strategy.

[@JigilJigil]

My dear wumao stop begging.

[@jetli740]

ban all chip to china 50% of your and your allied company will go bust, your computer/laptop/phone ect price will cost double. ignorance most of those chip end up in product you buy

[@tz1431]

​@@JigilJigil 1450

[@alexyou3233]

@@JigilJigil More "American" engineers speak chinese then english now. Its chinese engineers vs chinese "american" engineers.

[@gags730]

Be Careful What You Wish For. This could backfire on the West. While China may be behind for now the restrictions which are basically sanctions will end up making China fully self-sufficient in the Chip Market. Right now no country does not rely on another to produce chips as everything needed comes from many places. While China may not be producing the newest cutting-edge chips for some time most chips sold are not the newest cutting edge. We just watched China hit 7nm and now 5nm a feat that many experts would not happen so fast. People think that when it bans something from China it has no access to that item. That is not true there are many ways that China can still get their hands on these items. As we have seen with many things China catches up fast and they surpass other countries just the same. Sanctions will not work forever, they rarely if ever do. Don't count China out. They will get the technology, they will produce it eventually, and knowing China they will do it cheaper and faster in the long run. They are only 'delaying' the inevitable and making China accelerate what it has to do all that much faster. Sometimes you are better off leaving them alone than incentivizing them.

[@tooltalk]

>> We just watched China hit 7nm and now 5nm a feat that many experts would not happen so fast.

[@gags730]

@@tooltalk You stated "except that "many experts" never said that. " ...WHAT??? What are you talking about? The narrative of the West is that China is a decade behind and that they would not be able to produce newer nodes and if they could they would not have meaningful yields for these newer nodes. The purpose of the Sanctions against China was to ensure that China stayed behind. There are countless news stories, news clips, newspaper articles of quotes from 'experts' and then the thousands from the KZbin community repeating this over and over. Yeah the did say that! I never believed that narrative... but to say that is not the narrative being pushed by the media and all these so-called experts on technology on the news is BS... Read almost any western news article about the wa on Chips... That is what they say. Thats why when the new phone chip came out they all freaked out even tho we may know they already hit 7nm a long time ago...

[@Skinnypole_clara]

China can never beat the west in terms of chip designing. They have far more experience and infrastructure to make one.

[@tooltalk]

@@Skinnypole_clara >> China can never beat the west in terms of chip designing.

[@williamg102]

​​@@Skinnypole_claraI want to hear from you 10 years from now. Your gov choose to turn China into an enemy instead of an opportunity. Look at your country, you cannot even say no to Israel when they commit genocide. Are you still blind? You still can't tell who controls the western world?

[@coolinspirefunnybook1289]

china had to do whatever it takes to become independent and advanced chipmaker that no rely on USA for its chips.because not only USA often block chip sales to China when China need it, USA ever try to killed Huawei.

[@aslamnurfikri7640]

China needs to invade Taiwan and deprive US companies from TSMC chips

[@dennygreene7693]

It sounds like it would be detrimental to the US national security if people around the world had access to Chinese AI.

[@andrewlim7751]

Well, u.s. Prism program are real though.

[@beasley1232]

Yeah actually it KINDA WOULD 💀 after all China is the biggest rival of the USA, the USA doesn’t want its tech sector to be dominated by China that would be detrimental to American security

[@ds-kj8fq]

When you talk about national security sometimes it's a b Vage term what does that mean

[@geraldkohar]

Yes, because CIA can no longer spy on people around the world.... that sounds like a national security breach to basically every nation other than US

[@ffbeexaid4509]

Better stop using that iphone of yours too if it's assembled in China. 😄

[@City-Hiker]

It will not only hurt USA companies, but also Korea, Japan. The rise of dollar value also hurt many countries. This is not just a chip war, it is a currency war, too.

[@jetli740]

you started -so stop cry about it

[@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m]

it does, korea and japan chips and industries are dying right now Samsung lost 95% profit last year (Samsung is the most important company in korea, they accounted for 20%+ south korea GDP and take a lot of fund from their govt) if Samsung is in trouble, the whole south korea is in big trouble Japan's chips industry is already dead, their biggest semi conductor maker (Tokyo Electronics) pledged they will not leave chinese market or they will die

[@City-Hiker]

@@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m ：in Fact, Korea, Japan, Singapore, and all other smaller Eurozone countries are vulnerable when it comes to currency war. Smaller countries productivity are relatively low. Once another economy grown up, those countries lose competitiveness rapidly because their productivity are low.

[@tooltalk]

@@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m >> Samsung lost 95% profit last year >their biggest semi conductor maker (Tokyo Electronics)

[@laosasean8482]

@@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m Those two can't do much if theirs master tell them to jump they will jump. And if theirs master tells them to smell his fart gas they also won't dare to says no.

[@iamjvmac]

I thought she's gonna say that it's bad for everyone. But then she said it's bad for american companies. 🤦🏽‍♂️ It's all business.

[@heroldmutebi8200]

The Neo-cons in government are worried about not receiving their kickbacks if these companies go burst.

[@grgarjun376]

As always china will overcome this sanctions and come out even stronger..love from Nepal.

[@zhli4238]

Weaponizing trade with sanctions is the key feature of today's world.

[@tooltalk]

>> Weaponizing trade with sanctions is the key feature of today's world.

[@JigilJigil]

There is not really trade, one side is stealing the other side's IPs while subsidizing all its industries in the name of the free trade, and the other side is moving to end it.

[@Blingchachink]

Wow hot take

[@chevyjd2007]

This has been US foreign policy for at least 200 years.

[@darthvadeth6290]

America doesn't represent the world. It is the key feature of today's America, not the world 😅

[@KC-vx7gj]

These confrontational reactions from the US are pretty primitive, closer to natural instinct, indicating a lower-developement in its civilization, which only spans for less than 300 years and has not really stood the test of time. While China has seen great cilivilations rise and fall for over 4000 years, yet still there stronger than ever.

[@JigilJigil]

cope wumao.

[@WingkKong]

China is now as strong as America

[@humansarecrazybeing5730]

What happened white guy? Hurt your little heart?😂😂​@@JigilJigil

[@tonym842]

​@@JigilJigil Just wait and enjoy the continuing decline and deterioration of the west...

[@arreydharma5784]

Oh 50 cent agent like you should self reflect. Safe enough money to get out of your grandma's basement lol

[@gkmn7543]

USA: Shoots self in foot USA: "How could China do this to MEEEEEEEEE?!!!!"

[@carlhsin4020]

From history, we learned that no matter how big your idea is and how righteous you feel, without adapting to realities you will fail. Having seen this news report, I am certain that the USA is out of touch of reality, she is only full of self righteousness and self fulfillment. I wish her the best of luck.

[@derbezacesanchez3779]

Very vague answer, is your reality dependent on where you live and how you think, and can love others or just yourself?

[@温宇聪]

Thanks to the United States and congratulations to China for breaking through the restrictions on semiconductor chips

[@wynetsang]

Why the US government not know that escalating US-China tech war could hurt American Companies?

[@tonyxu1800]

So many dirty tricks come from fear.

[@RichardBrett899]

At the end of the day, China built its own space station all by itself. The space station will be the only one available for space research.

[@tooltalk]

>> At the end of the day, China built its own space station all by itself.

[@MichaelLi-ms1on]

What's wrong with self-reliance? At the end of the day, the plumber lives 10k miles away is not going to help me fix my pipes for free. What's wrong with DIY? When I try self-reliance, my plumber called other plumbers to boycott me? What do I do now? I guess the only way out is self-reliance more. Not jus the plumbing issue, but also the electricians, carpenters. God knows when will the biggest bully act again?

[@sharrylee3027]

China was once the most powerful country in the world. When Europe fell into the darkness of the Middle Ages and the United States was still a barren land, China already accounted for more than 60% of the world's total GDP. Today, China is returning to the top of the world. Several wars launched by the United States around China, such as the Korean War and the Vietnam War, all ended in failure. China, which was able to defeat the United States 70 years ago, will never fail when confronting the United States today.

[@voidvector]

People should just visit Silicon Valley to see how futile the tech war is. Chinese and Hindi are spoken in the hallway of those tech companies. Various towns in Silicon Valley have became Chinese/Indian enclaves.

[@tooltalk]

I think they said the same thing about traveling during COVID-19 -- that it was futile to block transmission from China, or the EU for that matter.

[@Dave05J]

Maybe but in the companies and during work time or with colleagues, it's only ENGLISH! So it doesn't really make a difference if some people are Chinese or Indians! Go away with your racist agendas!

[@preetkanwarsinghsuri]

Yup most indians do not wan to stay in India

[@NPAMike]

I don't see how long term you can stay ahead of China. Their tech companies work hand in hand with the government. US tech companies have shown that they will band together because they don't want their technology use for military applications and as long as the best minds in the nation go to these tech companies you can't compete versus a country that has the full backing of the government.

[@JigilJigil]

They used to say the same thing about China and quantum computers, China is ahead in quantum computing, China is going to lead in quantum computing, China is unstopple when it comes to quantum computers, blah blah blah, and China did everything it could, they have invested 5 times more than US in QC, they did everything they could to steal and transfer the quantum technology, but like many other projects they have failed miserably, today US has two companies with 1100+ qubit QC with totally different technologies while China cannot build a stable 72 qubits system, based on the estimates, US is at least 10-15 years ahead of China, SO NO. (Read the Strider's Quantum Report on how China used Heidelberg University in Germany to build it's own quantum computers program.)

[@mujur9101]

It is very deceitful cause all Military equipment using 100nm+ chips. 😅😅😅

[@cinpeace353]

They always underestimate China's capabilities. Not long ago, we heard "experts" said China was 7 years behind from 7nm chips. Well, apparently China is way ahead of their estimates.

[@Dave05J]

​@cinpeace353 you do know that estimations are made in accordance to information you have at your disposal in the moment, right?

[@cinpeace353]

@@Dave05J A cook who can't identify the ingredients is called a chef. 😅

[@ari8135]

Why not admit it, the American chip companies wishes to get rid of Biden? He has been DISASTROUS for the chip/ semi conductor industry.

[@Dave05J]

Hey CCP, get outta here!!

[@andrewlim7751]

​@@Dave05J U.S. defense spending 4% China defense spending 1.22% （the rest of the budget went into healthcare, education and infrastructures.) What say you? 😂😂😂

[@Dave05J]

@andrewlim7751 yet the US still leads in medical research, medical technology, still has the best Universities in the world! And by the way, the US gdp is 8 trillions higher than the Chinese gdp so, doesn't really matter!

[@Dave05J]

@@andrewlim7751 and actually, the US defense spending is about 3% of its gdp

[@coreyleander7911]

The guy who has never heard of the CHIPS Act says, lol.

[@winkus8586]

The US can't even stop Russia's oil export that use a huge tankers. Whta makes them to think they can stop such a tiny things used in consumer products such as iphone????

[@mintheman7]

Nobody wants to stop Russian oil exports and spike oil prices. “Sanctions” are just for show. Too many rich Russians living in UAE as brokers and too many tankers with transponders turned off sailing through the gulf for people not to notice.

[@kabysummit5801]

To my fellows, take a peek at these interviews - "John Thornton - Distinguished Lecture: Navigating the future of US-China Relations" "Jeffrey Sachs Interview: US-China Relations and Grand Strategy" "Cyrus Janssen - American debate: should you fear China" "Hugh White - This is going to be different: Learning to live with Chinese Power"

[@GoGoPooerRangers]

Literally posting ccp propagandists. 🤡

[@ZETA14.88]

​@@GoGoPooerRangers shoot the message, not the messenger

[@WXRBL666]

none of them are chip experts, but all of them are ‘China’ experts. This ain't no chip war, it's china war

[@jmg8246]

They want you to listen to gordon chang.

[@EastMilk]

Isn't that the lady who said she was "upset" when Huawei rolled out those phones? 😂 I mean, the US is just like a school bully who gets jealous of the new Asian kid simply because he/she is better at Math. Then they demand that everyone shun and exclude the new kid. 🤣...insecure much?

[@alanssshh]

well said

[@AR-pz6zl]

4:47 - 'There’s not really a LOT that they can do.' Fast forward 8 months, and China makes a breakthrough by developing a chip that can compete with NVIDIA's latest AI chip. While they still lag behind by 3 to 4 years in this field, the sanctions have accelerated their progress and closed the gap quickly.

[@MASMIWA]

As of early 2024, China produces 25% of the world's chip production and the US 10%. China is said to have 42 chip and wafer fabs and 17 more are being built and 34 more being planned. China's SMIC can produce 7nm chips and 5nm chips are said to be beginning production. SMIC is also said to be developing 3nm processes. Huawei and SMEE are said to be testing an EUV equivalent lithography machine due out later this year. China's Tsinghua University is leading the charge to build a particle accelerator lithography process that could reduce the cost of lithography. Then there are the efforts in China to produce photonic, graphene, and quantum chips. China currently has a photonic and quantum chip production line online and graphene wafers of 8 inch and 12 inch have been produced and transistors have been made on graphene. Bottom line, this CNBC report seems to ignore the facts and portrays a China incapable of rivaling the US. Like MSM reporting on Ukraine that the Russians are losing, propaganda mythology at its best. We were told things were going well in Vietnam and Afghanistan. We are seeing the same type of narrative being played out here.

[@lexluthor4156]

Not just for companies, tariff is just a tax on company AND consumers that can't afford to buy everything made in US or EU. And lets be honest: India and Vietnam still have a long way to go before we can use them to fill in the cap. Also this BS "tech war" is deterring competitions in the consumer market, there still 0 Snapdragon 8Gen3 phones released in the US, while Asia and EU had these new phones for over a month now. And the worst part is, Snapdragon 8Gen3 is make by Qualcomm which is a US company! 😡

[@mujur9101]

Vietnam is small in scale. India is bigger but ..... 😅😅😅😅

[@tooltalk]

>> tariff is just a tax on company AND consumers that can't afford to buy everything made in US or EU. > And lets be honest: India and Vietnam still have a long way to go before we can use them to fill in the cap. > Also this BS "tech war" is deterring competitions in the consumer market,

[@occadude2003]

To rival with China, the US will make another rival out of India. Smart move!

[@MegaPapa8888]

Other than China, where else can we sell our expensive chips? Less revenue means less profits for R&D for the future. We are killing our own geese laying gold for us.

[@JatinV1]

Irony of time, it just came out today that China has made 5nm chip

[@sasavukelic]

1:15 this is a mistake because "2nm" has no relation to any actual physical feature (such as gate length, metal pitch or gate pitch) e.g. in a "2nm" process, gates can fit some 20-30 strands of DNA between its walls; then, the size of a complete transistor is even more larger than that; and ultimately when you take into account the spacing between transistors, it just becomes a pointless comparison

[@gags730]

Hopefully, most people realize that the size or node has really nothing to do with the physical size of the transistors. It hasn't for a long time because of the way they make the newer transistors. If anything it just signifies where a company is in the tech pipeline of producing a chip and how advanced they are with that technology. Some things do not even scale down on the chip like transistors once did... for example look at the size of the IO on a chip.

[@lingeng2659]

US policies help Chinese companies gaining more time to catch up. The outcome will be the opposite of what the US government want to accomplish.

[@compadre9783]

All these chips are about to hit the wall as there is not much they can achieve going in the same direction AI or no AI (GPU as an example). A chip done with 7nm technology is not much worse than the one made with the 3nm, the difference is only marginal. The technology war can be won only by inventing something outside of the box yet on a completely new level.

[@hcjet]

感谢米国对中国一刻不停的打击和鞭策，因为中国人的民族个性就是生于忧患而死于安乐，这个世界能打败中国人的只有中国人自己，希望米国保持发展给中国做好榜样和向导，不然没有鹰酱可摸的兔子会很寂寞

[@TENNSUMITSUMA]

There's no 'outside the box' unless the rules of physics start getting broken! I was of the belief that past 5nm and you'd have to start worrying about quantum tunneling. Yet here it is chips have gotten down to 3!

[@trackonme]

I think this is the point. AI chip doesn't require over 5nm.

[@Western_Decline]

Also, China's most advanced missiles to attack Anglo-Saxon targets do not require 5nm. @@trackonme

[@andrewmole745]

The measurements are no longer real - they are 3- and 2-nm-equivalent. They do this by going up on blades rather than actually getting denser in 2D.

[@jussihamalainen7692]

US: "China started this war by trying to become self-sufficient in microchips, so we stopped selling them to China." Make it make sense to me.

[@will4519]

Try harder murica, you can’t stop us from developing

[@kelvinong1908]

US just make china stronger in many ways ❤

[@Levitiy]

The Chinese are way ahead in the lead from the Yanks. Just look at the abyss between TSMC and Intel's quality.

[@Dave05J]

Well TSMC is Taiwanese so.....

[@WingkKong]

​@@Dave05Jv all people living in Taiwan are Chinese

[@mintheman7]

@@Dave05JWhat’s Taiwan’s official name?

[@chieflingco]

​@@Dave05JTaiwan is part of China.

[@DanBurgaud]

THIS is the best decision that USA made. USA will not sell ICs to China. And China will make their own ICs from now on. It is an epic WIN WIN scenario!

[@freespeech8520]

All these talks miss the point that the biggest risk for R&D is time-to-market. China is the market. Sanctions make American companies miss big return from their R&D, while Chinese companies can comfortably profit from Chinese market without external competition to advance their R&D.

[@JigilJigil]

Wumao stop begging.

[@alanssshh]

agree

[@freespeech8520]

@@JigilJigil Bot, go add some synthetic if you can afford it. lol.

[@edoriyanto4979]

I'm curious. What is EU's role in this tech war (Besides ASML)?

[@tooltalk]

Not much really.

[@jeffxie5067]

EU acts as per the US bidding, that’s it

[@tooltalk]

@@jeffxie5067 : Sure, the US owns the EUV tech ASML depends on. Other than that...

[@Squirtle-xm6bi]

🤡

[@lagrangewei]

all EU did was ban apple from using their own cable... XD EU policies are generally helpful to China as they are anti monopolies and those monopolies are US companies.

[@donkeychan491]

China is a manufacturing superpower with twice the industrial output of the US. It also has the most science graduates and the smartest population. It's inevitable that they will surpass the US in semiconductors, just as they have in so many other industries. The remarkable thing is that China is already largely self-sufficient in the supply of components for semiconductors (albeit not cutting edge) whereas the US will take "at least a decade" to achieve this (according to Jensen Huang of Nvidia in a recent CNBC interview).

[@TomNook.]

McDonald's vs Burger King I thought was big, but this is on another level

[@cinpeace353]

Ah, no one even talked about Coca Cola vs Pepsi anymore. All these will pass someday.

[@andrewchew29]

Junk food n no wonder big obese people all over there. Good health.

[@wyphonema4024]

I am a from Germany worked in many countries with various companies over the years, easily Chinese poeple are the hardest working and smart people that I have ever come across....sure every country has smart people but the number of educated smart and people with problem solving mindset in China is unmatched. Also they are super curious and excited for new stuff. And I have found they super friendly, kind and nice! At the end of the day, physics is the same wherever you go. So with so much talent, resources and will do attitude I dont see anything stopping them to get over sanctions. Sure US sanctions might slow then down but its good for them, they will have homgrown technology

[@tooltalk]

>> I am a from Germany worked in many countries...

[@jetli740]

@@tooltalk you respond to a bot chat... seen the exact same message with indian replace german at the begin of the line as for xinjiang you actaully belive in genocide? seriously dude you should check xinjian have more tourist than spain, pretty hard to hide genocide with that many tourist right?

[@zobenny8290]

我老婆就是新疆人 ，我最有发言权，如果你想了解美国人是如何在新疆问题撒谎的，那就买张机票去新疆旅游吧，新疆是中国人这几年最流行的旅行目的地，因为哪里有世界上最绝美的风景，最善良和友好的少数民族其中也包括我们的维吾尔族同胞，新疆生活着十几个少数民族，除了少部分收极端宗教蛊惑的人曾经在新疆制作了一些不好的事件，遵守法律的人和世界上所有其他的人一样，没什么大的区别 ，而且新疆的治安非常好 ，很多美国的youtuber视频博主来到新疆旅行的视频 可以帮助你更好的了解新疆。 @@tooltalk

[@Wbliss]

⁠@@tooltalkthe so called ‘ ethnic cleansing ‘ in Xinjiang was a myth and that phase was coined by the west to badmouth China in their efforts to discredit the Chinese leadership but in the end, the western tactics of lies & false narratives got nowhere as the rest of the world knew the truth about the lives of the Urghur people & other minorities in Xinjiang as being well treated & looked after by the socialist system in China.

[@sandilekhowane4986]

God Bless the Chinese people, they've apparently declared a "war" by simply being self reliant.

[@katmandu0]

Except military china is ahead of usa in every aspect (infrastructure, social security,gdp(ppp), sanitation, education, technology, healthcare etc)

[@tacituskilgore8747]

Just build your own chips, bro.

[@lexluthor4156]

Funny how there are still 0 Snapdragon 8Gen3 phones released in the US, while Asia and EU had these new phones for over a month now. (Snapdragon 8Gen3 is make by Qualcomm which is a US company.) I'm not sure who's the laughing stock in that.

[@andrewferrauiolo4618]

Our country has to do something it has never done. It has to innovate, evolve, and make itself competitive. If this country wants to complain about imports and what other countries are doing, then our country needs to has to go forward.

[@jasonkim1069]

9:00 Experts seems to conclude that China was able to come up with 7nm chip (which is about 5 years behind Apple) smartphone using DUV, which is machine primarily used to manufacture 10nm > chips. Although, normally machine called EUV is used for advanced chip manufacturing but US banned China from importing EUV from Netherlands company ASML. To simplify and summarize my point using Minecraft analogy, China is using metal sword(DUV) to mine diamonds(chip manufacturing) instead of using diamond pickaxe(EUV). It works but it comes with lower yield, reuslting less economic viability compared to non Chinese chip manufacturers.

[@rabbitazteca23]

huawei already has a laptop that has 5nm chips inside them.... heheheh

[@lachal50]

5nm now, Huawei is back to 2020 when they first designed their 5nm chips before being banned. They say that the yield isn’t as good but I’ve heard China also has a new process different from EUV. That’s going to be a game changer. It’s just a matter of time.

[@lagrangewei]

the "low yield" claim is a myth. TSMC DUV yield was higher than their EUV yield at 7nm. why? because EUV's laser is not strong enough. EUV sound better in theory but because of limitation in the current machines, it is not able to reach it theoratical performance. I expect ASML will need a couple more version to refine their tech before they can really produce a product that could hit it full potential. the other issue is finfet minimal size has been reach so u can't really take advantage of higher resolution since you still need to print it that size for it to work. to overcome it, we will have to move to nanowire, which mean stacking the line one on top of the other instead of side by side. this mean layering which mean the number of wafer that can be produced will be reduced. requiring a bigger fab and more machines to do the same job. this is why the cost of processor jump expoentially as the processes become smaller, but the performance improvement remains linear.

[@skyscraperfan]

That battle is already lost for the US. We are at a point where AI can design new AI chips on its own. And you can run AI on any processor - just less power efficient. Innovation is just much faster in China than in the US. China just has a lot more people who are well educated. In Beijing they have a huge specialized university just for aviation and aerospace. Sooner or later they will have the best planes. They already build the best smartphones. The US have been the world's leading superpower for a long time, but those days are numbered. China already finances a big chunk of the US debt and that very much limits how much pressure the US can apply on China. China can probably build five or more tanks, missiles or battle chips for the price of one in the US. So China only needs to spend a small fraction of the US military budget to get the same fire power. Just look how much the Russian military achieves with a small budget. China already has ten times the GDP of Russia and it could easily have an army of five million soldiers and more. Each country really has to decide if it will continue to be on the side of the old superpower or the new one.

[@JigilJigil]

There is no innovation in China, they sck at it, in regards to the military this is China: *Pakistan* inducted *Chinese multi-role frigates* as part of their efforts to strengthen its sea frontiers, however, *these frigates are giving jitters to the Pakistani Navy due to the defective critical components and poor service* from Chinese manufacturers. *Di Valerio Fabbri, writing in Geopolitica.* said that these have forced the Pakistani Navy to operate these frigates with degraded operational capabilities, compromising some of the key mission objectives with which these ships were bought at a high price. After the commissioning of the frigates, the Pakistani Navy found out that *the onboard imaging device of the FM90 (N) missile system was defective because of a faulty indication on display,* reported Geopolitica. *The system was unable to lock on to the target* which, in a way, *made the missiles ineffective,* thereby defeating one of the critical mission objectives. As it turned out, these ships were found to be equipped with a *defective infra-red sensor (IR17) system and SR 60 radars, two of the most important sensors on board,* which are used for air and surface search. These search and track radars were found to exhibit faults during high-power transmissions, substantially degrading their operational utility. *The IR 17 sensors on all the ships were found to be defective and had to be discarded,* with the replacement yet to be fitted, reported Geopolitica. Another set of common faults in the Chinese-built frigates was found in its main engines. These frigates are powered by four diesel engines. *A critical engine defect has been low engine speed caused by high turbocharger exhaust temperatures, especially in engines 3 and 4, on all the frigates,* said Fabbri. *A high degree of degradation was noticed in the engine crankcase and liner* which undermined the coolant chemistry in the ships. Lube oil degradation and deterioration of vibration isolators were some other faults in the engines. There were other specific deficiencies in different ships. *PNS Aslat, for instance, exhibited poor radar performance. The ASO-94 Sonar system on Aslat was erratic in its performance* and on inspection it was found it was caused by faulty computing units. Likewise, *Aslat’s SR-47 BG Search Radar was below par in performance and repairs were carried out with cannibalised parts from other F22P ships.* The frigate developed a serious snag during an operational deployment in the Gulf of Aden, reported Geopolitica. *An equally serious deficiency noticed in PNS Zulfiqar,* the first Chinese frigate to be commissioned, was the NG 16 single barrel 76mm gun mounted on it. *The gun, equipped to engage other ships and aircraft and defend against anti-ship missiles, developed numerous faults in the mechanical and electrical parts,* severely limiting its utility. Meanwhile, *PNS Saif has been running with a problematic HP5 stabiliser gyro* since its commissioning. *A gyroscopic fin stabilizer, found on both sides of a ship’s hull, prevents excess rolling of a ship, in either direction."*

[@donkeychan491]

@@JigilJigil China has twice the industrial output of US, which is a decent proxy for long term military might. The US is a minnow and only getting smaller.

[@mintheman7]

@@JigilJigil Lol, nice cope with the fallacy of over generalization. The Chinese already know how LCS and Zumwalt programs were all resounding successes 🤣🤣🤣 Very good “innovations” when one relays on the industrial military complex to deliver on the “cost plus” model

[@jpachuta164]

@@JigilJigilcry little dog 😂

[@jetli740]

@@mintheman7 he indian doubt full he know what Zumwalt class is...

[@sportsonwheelss]

Doesn't sound like free market that the US were preaching around the world.

[@timshane954]

As an engineer, I can't figure out what's s relationship between advanced chip and military tech. Does F35 become more advaned because of the 28nm Chips? The answser is definitely NO! What makes the US military tech more advanced is called SYSTEM ENGINEERING.

[@Brandon-1]

The media always uses fighter jets as an example but the two main concerns for America when they started sanctions was AI because China was doing it better so they wanted to restrict access to the top end GPU's but also supercomputers. A number of China's supercomputers were made using old Haswell and Sandy lake Xeon chips at a time when most Western supercomputers were 64 core EPYC configs. The increased performance in complex simulations could easily speed up the production of new/next gen weapons

[@Brandon-1]

Although China has also created supercomputers with their own chips since then but they don't come anywhere near competing

[@mintheman7]

It’s never just about “security” but also about blocking China in areas they are gaining momentum, just look at Huawei. There was never any evidence of Huiwei’s “spying” even after they handed over their source code. But Huawei went from well on its way to become the #1 smart phone maker in the world, to not even ranked due to sanctions in 2 years. Snowden already leaked the massive federal surveillance program and “back doors” built into US phones. So Huawei was sanctioned because their phones don’t have “back doors” US can access and they were out competing US phone makers.

[@mrmaxin53]

What’s the end game? Value of currency and way of life? Can’t handle the competition while preaching free market

[@Brandon-1]

@@mrmaxin53 Americas always been the most sanction heavy country but they've definitely gone a lot more extreme with it over the last 5 years. The other thing that amuses me is they've sanctioned the chips but China is the biggest exporter of the precious metals required to make a lot of electronics so they could easily introduce their own sanctions if they ever felt pushed enough to change their doctrine

[@oakspines7171]

No pain, no gain.

[@mujur9101]

The stupid decision is forbid specific US Chips sell to China. 😅😅😅

[@7hx89]

Imagine one day Apple Tesla or Nvidia have to cut price for their best products by a half or more. Then imagine they are cut off away the entire market access or manufacturing base in half of the world market. If this is a war, it won’t be fought sorely by the playbook of the US only.

[@bluefish7940]

Apple already drop price in china , a 10% discount on their phone.

[@shutinalley]

We should be working together.

[@kabysummit5801]

100% ! take a peek at these interviews - "John Thornton - Distinguished Lecture: Navigating the future of US-China Relations" "Jeffrey Sachs Interview: US-China Relations and Grand Strategy" "Cyrus Janssen - American debate: should you fear China" "Hugh White - This is going to be different: Learning to live with Chinese Power"

[@mintheman7]

Not if one government wants to maintain world hegemon status at any cost. Even if us citizens would rather that government spend that money on domestic concerns instead of world domination.

[@shutinalley]

@@mintheman7 Thats about to change. Ai technology is going to change the game. Power, control, domination is an illusion.

[@ericchen-qo7sf]

Not US contain China in semiconducts first? I'm confused when i watch this vedio, it raise the point that china want to be indepent first. It's china's fault.

[@danielodey7775]

I've been following this debate on KZbin . A "bifurcation is developing" is the key observation ; a fork in the road is forming , between US lead technology and China lead tech. Who will win ? Or more correctly , where will the two roads lead ?

[@tooltalk]

>> "bifurcation is developing" is the key observation ;

[@robertbehrend8379]

Chris Miller ( one Interviewee in this video) has a great book on this I can only recommend called "chip war". Also when it comes to AI as being the second key tech mentioned, look up Kai-Fu Lee's book named AI Superpowers.

[@tooltalk]

It's Chris Miller.

[@robertbehrend8379]

Thank you for catching that

[@occadude2003]

He is just a tool in the US war of propaganda.

[@hevelgem]

what about the US civil-military fusion systems like DARPA, DoD working with private companies and the like? 🙂

[@supa3ek]

This has only increased china's standing in the industry. 40 years ago china didnt have many companies in the semiconductor industry. Today they have over a hundred startups every year with many already breaking into the top 30 semiconductor companies in the world. The USA cannot win this one simply because china uses more semiconductors than any other region on earth. The scale of chinas industry is backing their chip industry. Something that the USA doesnt have, even if they force TSMC and others to build one or 2 fabs in the USA it will do no good without all the supporting industries.

[@CyborgZeta]

Oh no, not the big American companies!

[@Mwante45]

Try to learn from history. You underestimated China on every turn. Car industry, you thought they wouldn't make it, now they lead the industry. Go check their cars and see how advanced they are, yet cheap. Semiconductors, predicted years to make 10nm chips, now they're pushing out 7nm within two years, next up 5nm.Their space achievements were also doubted, yet they've successfully operated a space station and conducted lunar missions. Even economic growth continues to defy gloomy predictions. China now produces about 5 million STEM graduates a year, 3.5 million in 2020-about 40% share as of 2020. So, I highly doubt any doom predictions on China.

[@yuanliu-i5i]

我相信合作永远胜于对抗。如果你的利益是建立在伤害他人的基础上的，那么你就是不公正的。

[@Calcaatis]

这话从共匪嘴里讲出来真是可笑

[@Dave05J]

It's not about harming others! It's about reality! China is an adversary of the US! What do you thing adversaries do to there competitors when they succeed to have an edge over them? That's what we want to prevent and the sooner, the better!

[@yuanliu-i5i]

@@Dave05J

[@BSPBuilder]

这个世界本来就不是公正的 美国的制裁迟早都要来 只有中国有了自己的高端芯片产业 才能让美国未来讲道理 谈“公正”

[@葛室韦-t9w]

你信有什么用，人家用最坏的想法看你，你不死他睡不着

[@levelazn]

Foolishly, via the semiconductor sanctions, United States is basically saying to China “ you can’t solve this math problem “ 🤭

[@rorytribbet6424]

… the benefits of Chinese advanced chip production being slowed down FAR OUTWEIGH the potential cons.

[@vishalbhadre178]

This is how india was refused super computer and then india built it's own. In this age with so much advanced china, I am sure it will built it's own and better soon

[@andrewlim7751]

The Chinese have a joke, they're 30years behind India, a long way to catch-up. 😁😁

[@andrewlim7751]

I would suggest you take a look at world's top 100 super computers, count how many India's super computers in the list if there're ANY. 😂😂

[@vishalbhadre178]

@@andrewlim7751 question is not world's top 100. This is about super computer and not about top or bottom. It's as per need. Just like USD. Everyone knows it's just piece of paper and if every country ditch it, US economy would not be more than Bangladesh but it's just demand for a currency for denomination which keeps it important

[@ashchbkv6965]

Good. Competition is what we consumers need, even if you're from US or China.

[@chinyong8166]

Hmm if it's solely about concerns of chips being used in the military... Why at the same time dangle carrots for companies to build more chips in the US (with taxpayers money as well). Using it's military might and trade position, the us has bullied Netherlands, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan into holding up this unilaterally beneficial sanction.

[@jetli740]

military use chip is probably 1 percent of 1 percent, as if they going build billions of missile and millions of jet fighter and ship. use military excuse is pure dumb at every level. in a missile you dont need a powerful chip.

[@MupChoi]

We're talking about we are ahead of them but the last I see was Intel still cannot make a 7 nm chip. The two country that really ahead of them were the ROC and the ROK.

[@ganboonmeng5370]

GO TAKE A LOOK AT ..HOW MANY SOFTWARE OR...CHIP DESIGNER...ARE CHINESE...EVEN THOSE OF AMERICAN COMPANIES....😂😅😊 HUAWEI ..IS MISSION DRIVEN...NOT PROFIT DRIVEN...EACH AND EVERY EMPLOYEE OF HUAWEI IS A SHARE HOLDER....AND THOUSANDS OF TSMC ENGINEERS FROM TAIWAN HAVE CROSS OF TO HUA WEI...😅😊

[@wyntoncolter1067]

With the competition building up between the US and China. With both in the past and still currently relying on tsmc. The steps to manufacture from home, in my opinions are key goals to strengthen these two economies as well creating reliable abundant supplies chains of microchips of various brands, for technologies known to operate with semi-conductors for functionality and usage. Restrictions on both parties will make it difficult but will express creativity and imaginative spark taking into consideration, that US and China are also in the race towards obtaining creating and solidifying more superior technology when it comes to Artificial Intelligence.

[@josephguo6256]

nowaday in China, who is TSMC?

[@alienapks]

on point

[@Karakuri-s6y]

​@@josephguo6256biggest and most advanced chipmaker in the world

[@Xiaoming2020]

You know TSMC also run by Chinese(TW Chinese)

[@leemobai762]

Chips manufacturered in US of Ass cost 10 times more than by any country on this planet plus are far inferior. The only way the US can compete is to claim national security subsidize companies to the tune of 75-90 percent.

[@jabulaniharvey]

idea flow cannot be stopped by politicians...

[@Phoenix88203]

Or, hear me out, we don’t have to see everything in an adversarial relationship. We are all humans on the same rock and with my extensive travels in both the US and China, we (and our governments) are more alike than we are different. Capitalists love to say they have the best system on earth and then complain when their steel and industry isn’t competitive against state-sponsored corporations. Like, which one is it? What is preventing the US from more nationalization? Communists love to complain about how they fall behind in technological advancements and then bemoan the power of the profit motive. Both countries could learn some serious lessons from the other if they weren’t so dead on against proving their system is the best.

[@Demopans5990]

The US has a vested interest in making sure communism fails as an economic system

[@leoh6596]

It's US that is having problems working with other strong countries.

[@JigilJigil]

What is your thought about 10000000+ innocent people who are in CCP camps solely becasue of their religion, where do you live, dreamland?!

[@Phoenix88203]

@@JigilJigil Do you imagine the USA is free of CIA blacksites and detainees at Gitmo? Because you should really research what we did after 9/11 to innocent Muslims … and it ain’t pretty. Hell, we still have people locked up who never got a trial, never got a day in court, just were unilaterally imprisoned two decades ago and never let out.

[@infei5389]

@@Phoenix88203For US there’re 2 kinds of muslims, “this and that”: US “helped this” million of muslims out of “the camps”; now sorry for “that” million.

[@supagirusupagiru9932]

It’s not a war it’s US force to maintain its hegemony. By not letting other country develop. free Julian Assange. Free true free journalism

[@nicknames5325]

Why is it called a war again? it's basic competition.

[@linmike8945]

Play dirty

[@LeticiaGoodmanf]

American melancholy is growing which is a typical symptom of end stage imperialism.

[@SuperGreatSphinx]

Mammon

[@txmao]

The most important thing to train AI is the data, US tech companies has collected and is collecting much more data than Chinese tech companies. The chip war is distracting the focus.

[@lordlee6473]

Thank you, comrade. That disinformation effort is appreciated

[@andrewlim7751]

Data? You're talking the other way round mate. 😁😁

[@MetaView7]

*Correction* : China did not make the first move by trying to be independent. It was the US sanctions and restrictions that forced them to look inward.

[@simplex1]

Never knew my $8 toaster had a microchip in it…

[@Soras_]

It does have simple thermal sensor

[@jetli740]

@@Soras_ that a cheap toaster, an expensive one do have micro chip to control temp and timing

[@hankchang3722]

The U.S. government should think about how to develop other emerging technological fields to widen the technological gap with China, instead of always trying to surpass existing technological fields.

[@baljiangusa]

US actions simply proved how farsighted Chinese government is. One would wish US government can be as intelligent and responsible as that of China.

[@nicholasl5247]

In the first several minutes ,It is really funny for the american young dude to accuse china to develop its own chip industry . Typical!

[@adityamwagh]

CNBC videos are always bangers. I try to never miss any video!

[@kngharv]

This video painted a picture as if China started this tech war. The reality is other way around: Trump administration banned chips against ZTE was the trigger that started China's massive effort of self-reliant. So, no, CNBC is a propaganda arm that gives biased and partial information.

[@jimmielin1141]

By 2019, China imports around 450 billion dollars worth annually from semiconductors from US Aa year which is the biggest import of good even exceeds the oil imports. So instead of buying the Chinese government and Chinese companies are just investing money into the industry.

[@zebraz1616]

Very biased reporting.

[@pohkhui]

not bias. the western mentality is all the while like so. otherwise, why only they were the coloniser and look down on other races.

[@franciskenyi3139]

It's the same way the U S A, is doing to blacklist others why not to do the same to blacklist the U S A, with other countries as well.

[@VeggieBond]

Just move it all to India

[@nickk4895]

Besides cheap labour India doesn't have anything valuable.

[@j.k.1239]

India doesn't have the extensive supply lines or the infrastructure.....

[@tooltalk]

@@j.k.1239 >> India doesn't have the extensive supply lines or the infrastructure.....

[@Yoyo-vt4hc]

LMAO they can't even move it out of Taiwan which has much higher wages because of how important skilled workers are in the manufacturing process

[@johnc1873]

why don't you move it to USA? oh yeah, because Americans aren't skilled enough workers to manufacter them. Only Chinese people can, whether that be Chinese from Taiwan or Mainland.

[@rathmam]

The Chinese bought about $350 billion dollars a year. Now no more selling to China.

[@starmacias]

That's why you should stay back in the old days and we don't have to worry about no stupid Computer

[@Duzon1602]

back to MONKE

[@starmacias]

@@Duzon1602 monke is that where you from not me

[@Duzon1602]

great grammar sand man@@starmacias