How the Films Changed Sauron (Into a Flaming Eye)

In every version of the Lord of the Rings, Sauron is a powerful and dominating presence who threatens Middle-earth, but even though he was still a presence more than an active character in Peter Jackson’s films, he was yet changed into his image from the book. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on the changes from book to film with the character of Sauron in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@apdarkness3027]

In the books, Sauron is portrayed as a menacing and powerful entity that is never physically seen, but the books provide more nuanced and complex details about Sauron's origins and motivations, as well as his relationship with other characters. In the movies, Sauron is also depicted as a powerful and malevolent force, but with a more physical presence. He is portrayed as a towering, armored figure with a flaming eye, and his character is simplified to emphasize his evil nature. Overall, while the basic characterization of Sauron remains consistent between the books and movies, the portrayal of the character in the movies is more visually striking and simplified, with less emphasis on the complexities of his personality and backstory. This has been a most interesting chronical of that evolution.

[@TheJmlew11]

“Yes, he has only four fingers on that black hand, but they are enough” said Gollumn shuddering. This quote does so much for me from the books and really shows the terror of their still being a physical manifestation of Sauron. I always had chills when Gollumn stated this, indicating he had seen and perhaps interacted with Sauron.

[@hodgrix]

I know I wonder how that interaction was lol like how did gollum not just die from sheer terror

[@Bwkjam]

Gollum regularly interacted with a giant spider demon, daughter of a creature that scared the Valar. Dudes seen some shit.

[@hodgrix]

@@Bwkjam and he can evade arrows and all sorts of life threatening shit lol. Dude’s a survivor

[@andrewthomas891]

Gollum was tortured by the Dark One who always craves the Precious

[@tattoofthesun]

I came here to post this quote too. I think that while Gollum was detained and questioned and tortured or whatever evil he went thru in side of Mordor, Sauron would have much interest in speaking directly to a ring - bearer. I definitely think that Sauron would have interrogated Sméagol because he’s invested in getting Sméagol to get info and go do his bidding. Such as when he is “rescued” from his captivity in Rivendell (or Lothlorien) by orcs after he’s allowed to climb a tree every day and then one day doesn’t come down and orcs show up outta nowhere

[@orrointhewise87]

"You know of what I speak Gandalf. A great eye; lidless, wreathed in flame." I believe for the films they made the right choice making him an all seeing eye. If he were a physical being then that would give rise to the argument of why he didn't leave and lead his armies? Especially after the prologue and seeing him so powerful. Instead they took a concept from the book and made an iconic (eyeconic?) villan that is so recognizable. The enemy that is always there, always watching in some ways is more terrifying than the one seated enthroned waiting for u to make your move.

[@jamescarter8693]

Cu the top The Golden Throne

[@jacob4920]

That line sets up the "Eye of Sauron" so beautifully. If, after Saruman said that, we never saw the eye, audiences would have revolted! You don't set up something that horrific, and then never show it. That's not how movie-making works. Also, there's so much to the books that can't translate to screen, of course concessions had to be made in certain places.

[@burnedsmackdown4209]

And the comment being lidless. you can't his gaze once his gaze falls upon you

[@ppvk2610]

"You know of what I speak Gandalf, a great eye, lidless, wreathed in flame".. And that we hear in Sir Christopher Lee's voice as Saruman.. One of thé best casting ever, he has it all for Saruman the looks, and above all the voice .. Or perhaps it was the easiest casting ever. I mean, who else? It was practically inevitable

[@orrointhewise87]

@@ppvk2610 I dunno according to Lee he had Tolkiens permission to play Gandalf in any future film, so things could have been very different than they are now😂 but I totally agree, spot on casting

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

In the books, the goal was never to face Sauron directly. And to Tolkien, a soldier in WWI also had a faceless enemy. And now I feel really foolish. I didn't ever realize the second of the two towers was Minas Morgul! Thank you for another terrific adventure into Middle Earth!

[@lisboah]

I actually laughed at that reveal. I saw the movies first, so I thought that the towers were Barad-dur and Orthanc. But then I read the books and this made sense. Saruman was overestimating himself, seeing himself as either Sauron's equal or potential successor. Sauron was only using him to keep Rohan occupied while he prepared to destroy Gondor.

[@CarthagoMike]

I mean, Tolkien himself wasn't sure which tower was the second one. He was never happy with the title, made up 'on the spot' because his one book had to be split into six (later 3). Between his interviews, official cover art and some information from the second book itself, it is still debatable which tower the second one is meant to be.

[@jacob4920]

@@CarthagoMike Which tells me that Tolkien would have been fine with the movies going with those two names, if he were alive to see these films. Just as I'm pretty sure Tolkien would have been fine with the "fiery eyeball" of Sauron being ever-present atop Barad-dur.

[@DamonNomad82]

Well, for what it's worth, I grew up constantly reading the books, as the film trilogy wasn't released until I was a young adult (I was a freshman in college when "The Fellowship of the Ring" came out). I was under the mistaken impression that the "Two Towers" of Volume 2 were referring to Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul, largely due to a haunting question Frodo asked Faramir shortly before they parted ways: "Shall there be two cities of Minas Morgul, grinning at each other across a dead land filled with rottenness?"

[@RedDoom33]

@@jacob4920 No way Tolkien would've thought it would be fine with a fire eye on top of the tower. He complained about the Balrog roared in the animated version of the fellowship, just for an example.. So no I don't think he would have liked PJ movies at all.

[@christopherpece5145]

The flaming eye above the tower originally comes from the 1980 Rankin Bass "Return of the King" film. Jackson just borrowed it, just as he borrowed Frodo, Sam, Merri, and Pipin's first introduction to the black rider from the Ralph Bakshi 1978 "Lord of the Rings" film.

[@orangexlightning]

I think that the idea of the flaming eye, and Sauron himself being stationed in Barad Dur don't need to be mutually exclusive. I like the idea of the Eye being something manifested by the palantir that Sauron uses for observation, while he himself sits comfortably on his throne.

[@Arander92]

I mean Saruman and Gandalf literally refer to it as his spirit form in the film, so it would have to be a part of him somehow. Personally I prefer that he just IS the Eye, since that offers a clear threat to the audience: What happens if Sauron recovers the ring? He gets his body back. And we all saw what he could do with that body

[@flyingfoamtv2169]

thats how i interpreted it in the movies.

[@dreadsocialistroberts]

We miss Gollum talking about his torture at the hands of Sauron. That was always chilling for me as he described Sauron with four fingers. This foreshadowed Frodo's fate and how he will lose The Ring by also losing his finger.

[@manwerama]

I agree, the Eye was one of the more impressive changes PJ made for the movies. Sauron from the book is a character defined almost solely through the fear our heroes feel regarding him. He lives in their minds, so to speak. (Also, having the main antagonist operating behind the veil was a stroke of Tolkien's genius.) Was that translatable to the move, though? Very likely not, so instead we got a symbolic representation made flesh, while keeping the character's spookiness and otherworldliness. Clever.

[@christopherpece5145]

PJ didn't invent it. He borrowed it from Rankin Bass 1980 version of The Return of the King.

[@jacob4920]

It's even said in the movie, before we even see it: "A great EYE... Lidless... Wreathed in Flame!" Or so says Saruman, when talking about it with Gandalf, at Orthanc. So why should the audience NOT see that flaming eyeball, after it is so descriptively set up by the White Wizard? I have to believe that Tolkien, were he alive to see these movies, would have been okay with this change, for film's sake.

[@Lucky13Ravens]

​​@@jacob4920 I think JRR would be furious. Considering he wrote an unseen creeping fear in the mind, his form hidden but present everywhere and the movie gave us a physical eye that you can avoid by ducking behind a rock.

[@jacob4920]

@@Lucky13Ravens Actually no. It's spelled out in the film: "His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh!" Saruman says this. Also, with his palantier, he could also see into some pretty intimate places. Sauron's presence was truly everywhere in those movies. Hiding behind a rock does nothing. Also, you skipped my most important statement: "For film's sake!" What can be communicated in books cannot really be equally communicated in movies. Not without some changes. Tolkien is smart enough to realize this, seeing as he lived through a good portion of Hollywood's early years.

[@Lucky13Ravens]

@@jacob4920 Actually yes. 'Spelled out in the film' a.k.a added to justify a decision and having no actual place other than that. And 'For films sake' a mental and pervasive (the Palantirs serving to further this as it shows he doesn't need physicality) enemy that is inescapable and needs no physical form would have done a lot more justice than, 'weitd fire eye looks angry'. That hide behind a rock scene made Sauron a laughable adversary.

[@MechaBorne]

Watching this while the Desolation of Smaug is on TV and Gandalf and Sauron are having their showdown haha The eye is just a great visual for the movies. Plenty of movies keep their villain hidden for most of the plot but once they are shown they loose their effectiveness. This way he is both abstract and present. Mysterious and frightening.

[@SillyIdea]

As a child the Eye really helped me understand the more abstract concept of lingering after death because of the ring. It's what everything else is compared to in my mind from liches to voldemort. Due to the ring, his essence doesn't leave. Due to his immense power, he can still manifest without owning the ring, if in an odd shape.

[@stevengodoy6896]

I thought that the black slit-like pupil was a window into the void where Sauron is held in death. He can see through that window and his sight is amplified by the palantir he possesses. The fire that creates the eye is a manifestation of the dark magic that binds him to Middle Earth.

[@definitelynotboromir]

I like your nuanced take. Absolutely no problem with the eye. I enjoyed Sauron as more of an active participant, rather than just sitting and plotting in his fortress. Sauron was at times in his life subtle, yet, once he'd begun his assault on middle earth, the mask is off and his plotting is now fully visible to all. No more hiding the majority of his moves. I like your idea of the eye being a physical representation of Sauron searching with the Palantir, and if I was told that was the in-movie cannon, I'd have no problem with that.

[@DirtyDan77]

The flaming eye might not make perfect sense, but you have to admit, that shot of the camera spiraling up Barad-dur and revealing the eye is crazy good, and every shot of Mordor and the eye is really menacing. I don't think it really needs an explanation. It just works. And in movie making, that's what you go with.

[@Arander92]

Out of curiosity, what about it doesn’t make sense?

[@RabidLeech.]

It always gives me chills in ROTK when the black gate opens, and the army of orca comes marching out with the eye menacingly shining on the armies in the background

[@D4rkn3ss2000]

Bro I cannot think of a more scary and intimidating imagery than that of the great, flaming, lid-less eye of Sauron looking directly at you, piercing your flesh, staring into your soul. It's just perfect.

[@Gigas0101]

I liked the eye, as it was a very nice bit of visual storytelling. Sauron's iconography made manifest as a representation of his will from his unassailable tower communicates what he's about to an audience that might not enjoy the books. It's something both tangible and abstract, making Sauron feel more imposing to me when I first watched.

[@rinmathews9337]

I think if you made a movie, and Sauron was a literal guy who just sat in a tower the whole trilogy only to die later, it would feel pretty anticlimactic. The rule of Chekov's gun is don't show the audience a gun in your movie unless it's going to go off at some point. Sauron sitting there during the battle only to die to the tower collapsing would be pretty dumb.

[@axeltavarez1367]

I personally never saw the movie Sauron as the flaming eye. I always thought that the eye was like a seeing spell. It wasn't his actual form that was in the tower but a device to far see.

[@Alexs.2599]

That's probably what PJ was going for. He was most likely in his dark throne room surveiling his domain. He still had his metaphorical powers but he might have been more physically weaker until he could retake the Ring.

[@axeltavarez1367]

@@Alexs.2599 Exactly, and as we can see from the concept deleted scene of the black gate. They did see Sauron as having a physical body within the tower that he would have used if victory was asured. I'm happy that they stayed closer to the original story in the end. But it does show that P.J thought The S man had a body and nine fingers, since i think that golum has the line in the films as well.

[@Nerd_Detective]

That's how I interpet it as well (besides its role as a symbolic proxy for Sauron's looming presence).

[@Alexs.2599]

@@axeltavarez1367 @axeltavarez1367 Agreed 💯 with everything you said. That deleted scene of Aragon fighting Sauron though was pretty awesome but of course Jackson had to discard it because it very non canon. Like you said only if Frodo and Sam had failed and Sauron reclaimed his ring would he have revealed himself at the black gates. Yeah I think in the extended cut Gollum does mention the nine figured hand of Sauron just like in the books. It was just confusing for viewers because it looked like Sauron was physically a giant eye ball. He wasn't. He couldn't take a fair form again because his Annatar form was destroyed when Numenor was sunk below the waves by Eru.

[@Alexs.2599]

@@Nerd_Detective Yeah I think that's what Jackson was going for. I just think though it confused a lot of people. They thought Sauron was literally reduced to a giant flamed eye.

[@w-james9277]

Slightly off topic but in my head cannon when Sauron as the eye looks directly at Aragon he did momentarily corrupt him. Aragon looked completely entranced and even lowered his sword but when he starred back you see Gandalf wave his hand and brings him back down to earth. And then realising what just happened with tears in his eyes he says's "for Frodo" and charges into the enemy.

[@altairprime7895]

The flaming eye appeared during the movie in Dol Guldur. While Gandalf beheld the eye in horror, realizing what he saw, a figure within the eye walked forth, the visage of Sauron. I believe Sauron existed within Barad-Dur and the eye was created by him and part of him as his means to watch over all he could see. Even in the books his presence is referred to as "The Sleepless Eye".

[@gandalf8216]

The eye was actually quite literal. My namesake fought it in between being saved by Galadriel and Gwaihir and finding the trio in Fangorn, it is mentioned in the same chapter when Gandalf found the trio remnants from the Fellowship, in the Two Towers book. But as Tolkien often does when writing about spiritual battles, it's retold in a literal manner but is meant as something spiritual and ephemeral.

[@miqueiaspaulo1]

I wouldn't associate spiritual with ephemeral, in the context of the LOTR universe. I think for Tolkien these spiritual instances were in a sense much more real than what the eyes can see, and, if I may, eternal. So not really ephemeral.

[@harryba220]

A lot of people have mentioned they interpreted the eye as an extension of Sauron but I always saw it as his spirit and that when he possessed the one ring, Sauron would take a physical form again.

[@Arander92]

Yup that’s what I thought immediately

[@DanielPlainsight]

As a child, when these movies were coming out, I always assumed the eye was a kind of extension to Sauron.

[@paulbrickler]

I've been a Tolkien fan for over 30 years, since my 8th grade teacher noticed how much I liked the Hobbit more than the other kids in my class and gifted me the LOTR books and the Silmarillion. I think you nailed it here. I actually don't have anything to disagree with at all.

[@primal1233]

I like that they made Sauron look like a flaming red eye. Thanks again for another great video 👍

[@NecroticRampage]

I agree, the change makes sense for a film. I did however always think of the eye on screen as magic being used by Sauron, not Sauron himself.

[@mariyontil]

I was fine with Sauron, definitely more so than Aragorn or Faramir. Yes, he's not actually a flaming eye, but I am willing to suppose it is a manifestation of his will and he is really in the tower. I am also glad he was not at the Black Gate. Other than it just being good strategy and in character for a villain to stay inside, I think not seeing him actually makes his presence stronger.

[@clan741]

When reading fellowship of the ring, when Frodo and the fellowship were resting in mirkwood (or was it lothlorean?) Frodo could feel the eye of a malevolent presence on him, from Mordor, thousands of miles away. That part always stuck with me. Despite the fellowship still being far from their objective, just crossing the misty mountains alone made it feel like they had now entered uncertain lands, where nowhere was safe from the eye of the dark lord. I imagine it was this passage alone that gave the idea for Sauron being a literal giant eye, his gaze boring into anyone from impossible distance.

[@planetxmetal]

4:40 - your explanation there is how I’ve always felt about the movie’s flaming eye. That it’s a manifestation on top of his tower and that Sauron is sitting scared and weak but arrogant inside. If Sauron had had a physical form viewers would’ve argued for years why he should have come out and handled things himself and it would have robbed the story of the “Sauron over played his hand, emptied Mordor to crush the remaining resistance and left himself helplessly vulnerable” element as the ring fell into Mount Doom.

[@dbass9544]

I like these differences videos. A similar “widely accepted” movie change would be the depiction of the orcs. In the films, they sort of demon zombies, rather than just an actual type of people. I get the change, but I still think the discussion is worth having.

[@fullstackphoenix]

I always saw the eye as a metaphysical entity that helps the viewers more than a real physical thing in middle earth.

[@shadowofchaos8932]

To represent an evil presence as a flaming eye was good for the movies. But how does an eye use a Palantir? Good call for the movies.

[@tomklock568]

I had always assumed that he was not able to take physical form again without the ring...guess I need to re-read the books again. I kind of like the eye representation of his presence...it is cool and frightening simultaneously! Thanks for the video.

[@i.am.not.herbert]

I never thought he was JUST that flaming eye. I always got the impression he was in that Tower somewhere, using his power to manifest a means by which he could extend his senses and establish his presence. Not to mention that I don't think he could keep control of the various forces of evil and his evil army tend to only be loyal obedient underlings Here's why: I had the impression he intended to wear that ring again after he got it back. Usually a body is required to accessorize with jewelry. What would his option have been if he was just a conjured thing of fire and light and smoke which allowed for some influence on the world and perception of it as a being of spirit, but sort of corporeal World interface? Just set the ring loosely flat on the top of the tower just under his giant magical flaming eye construct? Would he have access to its powers by having it kept in a devoted and exclusive position of close proximity?

[@unluckyone1655]

I kindof wish the conversation between Sauron and Pippin that happened in the books was kept in the movie, though i also understand why it was left out for story flow reasons. It was an amusing conversation with Sauron likely thinking he was talking to one of Sarumans gophers to relay a message to him even though said conversation left poor Pippin out cold for a bit before he could speak again.

[@monolalia]

I recall the Eye recurring as a manifestation or “spiritual tool” of Sauron’s in the books. Frodo and Sam even see it as a sort of searchlight behind a high window in Barad-dúr. While I didn’t like the movies (gasp!), moving it to the top of the tower didn’t seem like such a radical change, unless you take it to mean the Eye *is* Sauron (and all there is of him in the physical world)

[@Morgil27]

I never saw the eye as Sauron, himself. I always saw it as a kind of construct he set up on top on the tower to aid in him watching over Mordor. If I remember correctly, I think the Rankin Bass movie did a similar thing, with a giant red circle-shaped eye in the sky sending out a red beam of light scouring the side of Mt. Doom for Frodo and Sam.

[@swordmonkey6635]

I saw the Eye as a sort of telescope spell Sauron was able to use to keep searching for the Ring. I imagined a weakened Sauron in his tower deep in meditation as he used his "vision" to search.

[@CuttinEJ]

I haven’t read the books in a few years, so maybe my memory isn’t quite fresh, but I always thought of the Eye as more of a device that served as an interface between Sauron and the physical world. It always seemed to me that Sauron was only barely able to manifest himself physically after his defeat by Gil Galad and Elendil and being stripped of the Ring, into which he had poured so much of himself. That was one of the reasons why he wanted (needed) to recover it. Without it he was little more than a wraith. Although he was a Maiar, the spiritual aspect of his existence wasn’t enough to satisfy his desires (lusts). He needed a physical form in order to truly enjoy the physical world. Without the Ring, he couldn’t do that. As to the Two Towers, I never thought the union could be anything but Orthanc. Sauruman joined Sauron, and that created the union. Minas Morgul was under the command of the Witch King, who was, in turn, already under the command of Sauron. There was no need to form a union because they were already united.

[@paulwagner688]

All the servants of Sauron spoke of The Eye. It's what Frodo sees in the Mirror. It is also mentioned that following Isildur, Sauron had not yet regained enough power to craft a new form. Even though the Black Hand is often mentioned. My guess is that he was in his "naked" Maiar state, but his being was not invisible when unclad in a body, but black and burned, with only the Eye being manifest

[@draco4u2]

That’s what is so gr8 abt the movie and Jackson’s vision. Not too much or too little just right avoiding or resisting the temptations from the representation of Sauron to Aragorn facing or dramatising their face off. From Gandalf to Legolas to Aragorn to Sauron and his mighty army!

[@DannyJane.]

I really liked Peter Jackson's version of Sauron. Having him appear as a bodiless, formless, huge eye showed clearly both the strength and terror while also alluding to his basic weakness. Movies are about the visuals and subtlety in a production of this size can get lost or seem anti-climactic. Further, I can't imagine a more imposing or terrifying image Sauron could have been presented as. By illustration, Saruman was a scary antagonist, powerful and full of knosledge, but how he pales against the the form that can not be reached, reasoned with, or even faced. To me, the very BEST moment in a trilogy full of them, came at the moment Barad-dûr collapsed, when somehow through cinematic magic, that single, staring, relentless eye managed to look both baffled and absolutely TERRIFIED! That, to me, was the culmination and the brilliance of the production as a whole.

[@jacob4920]

Also... it sets up perfectly when Frodo puts on the One Ring, in the Inn of the Prancing Pony, and we hear Sauron's evil voice: "You cannot hide!... EYE see you!!" Punctuating that sinister whisper with a humongous flaming eyeball shook me to my core, the first time I saw it! It was perfect!

[@venkelos6996]

Me personally, I remain glad that Sauron didn't take to the field of battle, not because I wouldn't like to have actually seen him do something, in tbe movie, but because he didn't in the book, and I do usually prefer an adaptation to still hold close to the source. Saying that, I feel that the Eye of Sauron, in the films was a wonderful device. If we broke away to some war room, deep within Barad-dur, where a manifested Sauron was looking through the orb, or threatening his generals, maybe that would have been enough, but since Sauron is mostly such a non-player, in the story and the films are such a more visual experience, I feel we needed something to see, and attribute to the Dark Lord. As it roved, we could interpret that he was active, even if only so much as possible while remaining holes up in his tower. He wad playing a long game, but not idly waiting for his foes to just succumb, and die, so as to no longer be able to resist him. I am well aware that some of my feelings is a result of too much D&D, and other such things, but I often seem irritated by how not magical, or not enhanced Sauron's forces, and strategies, seem to be. Orcs can barely operate without his evil goading them on, and they rarely seem superior to Elves, or Men, save in their numbers. Sauron is a magnificent smith, yet his forces don't bear improved weapons, or armor. We occasionally hint at other magicians, yet none of them seem to feature in his forces. He has some terrible monsters, sure, but not others. He's a spirit; a fallen angel, yet even before losing the Ring, he didn't as much seem to use his powers, and just waded out, smashing foes. Again, I get that I want something that was maybe inspired by LotR, but nor actually there, and I do know that Sauron is a powerful, supernatural being, but that means in the films, I like that he displays that by taking the form of the Eye. We have something to see, and it radiates with evil, and power, in a way a being less than Sauron couldn't. That's just me, of course, but I was glad the Eye of Sauron was there, so our villain had a presence.

[@flyingfoamtv2169]

i agree on this.

[@DoomMomDot]

in the seeing pool, Frodo sees a giant lidless eye with sideways pupils like a snake, looking for him and the Ring. So portraying Sauron as an Eye makes sense.

[@marionbaggins]

One thing we didn't though Expect from Sauron being an Eye (at the time) was the One does not Simply Memes to come from it, I am not Kidding!!!! Man, the timing, I got The Fall of Númenor book last week and I just read him corrupting the Numenoreans...Good Timing!!! Thanks, for How Sauron was Changed Book to Movie, Until the Old Forest...Marion Baggins Out!!!

[@palantir135]

In the appendices of the extended videos it is explained why the eye is used as far as I can remember.

[@jamesfry8983]

The visual of the eye was a great idea for the films, it makes it so much more chilling to just see them as a burning eye

[@ryancruz1876]

It also directly contradicts Tolkien’s lore and makes no sense whatsoever for anyone who’s ever read Tolkien’s books before.

[@jamesfry8983]

@@ryancruz1876 Well thats very true, I have read the books many times and know the differences, but I still think it was a good way to visualise Sauron

[@jackolantern147]

I'd love to see a region spotlight of Barad'dur, the dark tower. How it impacted the story and if it was built differently from its reconstruction in the 3rd age.

[@richard8176]

I didn’t mind this change, although the use of the eye did make Mordor look fairly small in the film.

[@tedytarrify]

Good point... so well designed was the eye that I really had to think about Sauron in the books as the eye dominates all my immediate recollections of him. Must have worked well if I accepted it so readily.

[@mogmog12]

I think the eye does exist in the books in the way shown in the movie. Please consider this quote from the books, "One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye"

[@mopeybloke]

It is a possible interpretation, but it's hardly confirmation that it is a literal visual thing people can see in Middle-earth.

[@mogmog12]

@Mopey bloke The text that proceeds this quote is a physical description of the top of Barad-dur. There is every indication that this quote is a continuation of that description and that it represents what Sam and Frodo or anyone else would see if they looked at the top of the tower.

[@allenrussell1947]

When the orcs took Frodo into Ciruth Ungol Shagrat instructed Gorbag that a captured prisoner was to be held safe until Sauron sends for him or COMES HIMSELF. And, Golumn comments that he only has four fingers on the ring hand. It seems pretty evident that Sauron has taken a physical body, just like the one he had at the battle when he lost the ring. I'm interested in why the great ones thought Sauron recovering the ring would be more powerful, virtually undefeatable, than the Sauron that was defeated and robbed in the battle of the Last Alliance.

[@bethmarriott9292]

I do think it was a good way of translating the concept of Sauron existing in a weakened state but watchful and aware from book to screen, without giving a face to it that would have detracted from the main focus of the plot and the symbolism of his existence. Giving Sauron a physical humanoid form for the films would possibly have taken something away from the menacing aura we sense, because his presence is able to be more insidious by not being contained to a body

[@januzzell8631]

I enjoyed the lidless flaming eye atop Barad Dur - it always felt as the only physical manifestation of Sauron - constantly watching over the lands and his people. Watching it track across the lands of Mordor,, especially when Frodo and Samwise were trying to creep across the lands was well done and suitably tense/creepy. Same feeling as giving the Ring its own definite personality with the backing noises and whispers - creepy

[@lisboah]

I think that I would have loved Sauron more in the movies if he never showed up at all. We fear the unknown more than what we know. And the fact that this Dark Lord that aims to take over Middle-Earth never shows up would make him even more terrifying. Some maybe could have gone as far as theorizing that Sauron died long ago, but the Nazguls use his name as a means to incite terror and to keep the legions of Mordor under control.

[@justinsowa1972]

I completely agree with your opinion. PJ did a great job. The books are wonderful, and I have read them repeatedly through the years. They are different to style and tone. They don't contain much detail about the battles. PJ took the important story, and meaning contained in the books and presented them in a meaningful visual way. Books should be adapted to the screen, as it is a different medium. This requires skill to take a book with so much meaning and present it a honest way. I think that you stated that well in your opinion.

[@CallmeKenneth-tb1zb]

You're mistaken, my friend. Sauron _is_ in the movies as a physical presence. He's shown briefly in the flashback to the torture of Gollum during the Moria scenes, I think it is. If I remember correctly it's only a hand, but it's the same armour we see Sauron in during the prologue. The flaming eye is meant to be representative of Sauron's power, his ability to cast a wide gaze over the lands of Middle Earth, it is not meant to be the manifestation of Sauron himself, at least according to Peter Jackson.

[@jubjub501st]

It did give us that great moment in lotr the third age where your characters scale the tower and physically fight the eye with swords and bows

[@361Jonel]

cant wait to hear you talk more about Bombadil

[@maxmercer1931]

Peter Jackson and the studio should have done the fight between Sauron and Gil Galad/Elendil

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

My head canon for the movies is that the Great Eye atop Barad-dûr isn't actually Sauron, just something he conjured up and uses to gaze out at the world.

[@Anthooyant89]

There is a letter written by Tolkien to a fan, where Tolkien explains that Sauron had a body of man shape but of far greater statute, not gigantic, with a burnt and blackened body. Also Gollum mentions to Fordo and Samwise in the Two Towers of having seen a burnt and blackened hand with four fingers, before changing the subject.

[@yodaslovetoy]

Still better than r.o.p.

[@ominae1]

That's an extremely low bar...

[@yodaslovetoy]

@@ominae1 I tend to do that....

[@poetaaprendiz3592]

🤭

[@rhisavbora2975]

Sauron's eye was better than entire ROP s1

[@Kleshumara]

This is the new “still a better love story than Twilight” (and, of course you’re right).

[@Liquidsback]

With the eye it has a physical presence that maybe necessary for a general audience. Though in the books, it is kind of spooky eerieness with his presence and that can be lost if he has a physical presence. It is kind of like being a kid and hearing your friends talk about a spooky old house, so your imagination picture this creepy place and then you see the house in real life and it just looks old.

[@Kale13000]

For whatever its worth, I actually didn't realize the eye was a creation of the movies. For context, I saw the film first with minimal knowledge of the book. However, when reading the book, I simply assumed that Sauran was "the great eye" and never realized that the eye of sauran was never actually mentioned

[@kaidorade1317]

I thought having Sauron turned into a flaming eye was genius! Peter Jackson sure has an EYE for details!

[@ryancruz1876]

It makes no sense though if you’ve read the novel.

[@nick0875]

The flaming eye ontop of Barad Dur could just be some magical manifestation that Sauron has conjured to aid in his search for the Ring. It could also be used as a fear tactic against the peoples of Middle Earth, Sauron's eye is everwatching and he knows of their attempts to stop him.

[@danmcdivitt]

Movie wise I think the presence of The is amazing.. real enough to make him feel real and elusive enough to creep into thought great video again

[@jacksonrussell4630]

I do remember watching the behind the scenes for the LOTR and Jackson's reasons for the change mainly were he didn't want new fans wondering where the main villian was. Darth Vader was present and very active and star wars and he didn't want fans wondering why sauron wasn't that present as well. Thus, his ability to be physically present was taken away. If he could be present, but wasn't, I think it might have taken a bit of menace away from him.

[@darktenor4967]

The quote that always scares the hell out of me in terms of Sauron, is when Isildur writes in his scroll that: "Sauron's hand was black, but it burned like a gleed, and so gilgalad was destroyed" The idea of something that literally burned with black fire, whose very touch killed a powerful elf lord, (how exactly, I really don't want to know). People do not think of Tolkien as writing horror, but the few words he does mention about Sauron really do give the impression of something unknowable and demonic. Even in his letters, when someone asked him directly, Tolkien only said that Sauron should've been thought of as very terrible. I liked the great eye in the film in Fellowship, since there I assumed it was (as it's seen in the books, in say Galadriel's mirror), a symbol of Sauron's will. however, cool though it looked, I was less keen on it's depiction in two towers, hovering up in the air above the dark tower as a literally physical floating eyeball.

[@adamqjsmith]

In the Lord of the Rings books, Sauron's character is established through subtle, tacit influences exerted by his minions and actions. The extensive length of the books allowed for these influences to accumulate into an established presence that was both palpable and crucial to the story. While I agree with Youngsten's (apologies for any misspelling) point that a humanoid portrayal of Sauron would have been distracting and detrimental to the narrative, even if the movies had attempted to include these influences, the time constraints would have made it challenging to replicate the insidious and tacit nature of Sauron's presence. It was clear from the books that Sauron led through influence rather than direct action, and the eye serves as an effective representation of this. In attempting to bring Sauron to the big screen, the filmmakers would have risked either rendering him less significant than his minions or making him too centralized as the primary threat when the books make it clear he is the puppet master master, not a charging bullish threat.

[@kentbarnes1955]

PJ had to create SOME visual presence on screen. And it needed to be somewhat "super natural". I think PJ threaded the needle very well in this case. I love the books, and appreciate the subtly of his menacing presents there...but I also LOVE the "great eye". I feel it pays homage to the book character without being video gamish.

[@radagast7200]

I thought Shadow of Mordor's whole 'sauron is the pupil standing in front of fire' thing was a pretty interesting compromise between the two. I'm still not sure if I should hold any hope for WB's new movies though. We might avoid identitarian politics, but we could also get a sexy shelob...

[@CMVBrielman]

1) One of the few things I appreciate about the Hobbit movies was re-contextualizing the eye, by having the figure of Sauron form the center of the eye. 2) I now have the urge to see Saruman as a giant white hand atop Orthanc. Perhaps Jackson could re-interpret the Scouring of the Shire, with a giant white hand being Saruman after his stabbing by Grima. Should only take them… 4 films to do it justice!

[@Uulfinn]

I always thought the flaming eye in the movies was created through Sauron's palantir. The palantir is a seeing stone and has similar abilities of sight, as the flaming eye does.

[@michafraszczak120]

I always thought that in the movies he did was present in a physical form inside Barad- Dur. The eye on top of the tower was just manifestation that he is present and also was his "management device" (like binoculars or spyglass).

[@Fingledoodler]

I only read the books this year after watching movies for years! It was very interesting to see that the eye is not present in the same way but I think that both mediums are good in their portrayal. The movie definitely benefits from the eye being physically there as it is and I'm not sure that the books would have. So I would say his adaptation to screen was really well done. Not an improvement on the books, just an improvement in a movie portrayal

[@V4N6U4RD]

The Ainur are presumably able to take whatever form they wish (or best suited for the task) such as the Istarti taking the forms of men to provide their wisdom to humanity and the Balrog taking the form of a Fire Demon to unleash it's attack power, but since Gandalf did not just assume a different form to counter the Balrog, the conditions and requirements to change forms are more complex than just transforming like an Autobot...like when Gandalf returned as Gandalf the White...Sauron was fully aware of these restrictions and taking the form of a giant eye would give him the best vantage to search Middle Earth. In my opinion, taking the form of a giant eye made of flames is similar to the Balrog's dark fire of Udun...both unnatural and evil

[@praeamble]

Saruman also states in the first movie that Sauron "cannot yet take physical form". He might have been able to by the third movie, or maybe he was just projecting a vision of himself to Aragorn.

[@JeanLoupRSmith]

Like a few others have said, I don't think one replaces the other. I tend to think of the eye as some kind of avatar of Sauron used to make his dominance unmistakable from his armies but that does not preclude him from existing still in his corporeal form even though you never see him. Many aspects of literature don't work on film unless you take some creative liberties, a character's train of thought or a purely verbal mind space can be hard to translate. In this case Sauron is the main antagonist that you never see except for visions through artefacts like the mirror of Galadriel or the Palantir.

[@nathanieljackson5554]

Sauron having a physical presence in the movies helped with exposition. I always thought it was Sauron using the Palantir that manifested the flaming eye and that it became his symbol after the war for the last alliance.

[@shlomomarkman6374]

I had always felt that "the eye" is Sauron's manifestation in the unseen while "the tyrant" and later "the shadow" are his manifestations in the seen world. The eye is present only when someone is at least partially shifted into the unseen like when putting the ring on or being in Mordor with it where the ring is more "charged" and the boundary between the worlds is weaker. The fact that manifestation in the unseen and seen are different is well known and interestingly we never saw how another Ainu (Gandalf) is manifested in the unseen as Frodo never used the ring near him as I remember. Generally it looked to me that "magical/divine" power works through the unseen.

[@kajlennartsson4234]

In the books. To me Sauron is a invisible force that controling and using creatures and peoples for his evil plans.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

If there had been no imagery of the eye, there would have been no tangible fear for the director to project onto the audience. Many movies are just images devised to tell a whole swath of storyline. PJ and Co. devised an excellent image to depict all we knew about the terror of Sauron. Much is conveyed in that image, as well as other things, not especially written in the text, but implied.

[@meganfoster8838]

In ROTK, when Barad-Dur falls, the pupil of the eye looks like a person struggling (or is it just me who sees that?). I re-watched the films and noticed that one could interpret the slit pupil as a dark hooded figure encircled (ringed?) by flame, hinting that Sauron is somehow trapped in a weakened state without the ring and cannot leave the Dark Tower, but still extends his evil will.

[@CEB1896]

I always thought that a nazgul would fly to the eye with the ring and throw it inside, and by that allowing Sauron to take a physical form. Not now but when i was younger. .

[@chrisvasko16]

I personally loved the eye. I think it made so much sense in the movie and never saw it as actually being him, but more of a spell he cast to always been on the look, and always be searching for the ring.

[@calebowen2006]

I think the eye is a positive change. It gives a large visual presence to the movies and shows exactly what sauron sees and focuses on. I think it's good cause if not he'd just be mentioned in the movies and we wouldn't get an actual idea of the threat. Show don't tell is important in movies

[@JM-ji2tw]

I didn’t mind the change for the most part but in the final film I thought it just got silly with the eye looking this way and that like a flashlight. It makes the tension of avoiding him seem easy, like a game of flashlight tag that kids play. I envision him more like we see Sauramen or Denethor in their respective towers. Deep in thought or conjuring magic. Like Gandalf deep in thought.

[@JagoBridgland]

The flaming eye is eye-conic

[@Alexs.2599]

Hehehe good one.

[@ponedog]

I think it generally works, but the one hole that bothers me is the problem with turning the eye into a literal telescope/searchlight - like how could it see over mountains etc.? At close range it clearly works this way but it's not clear how it works at long range - unlike the palantiri.

[@tyrport]

I think the flame was a change for a good in the movie. Subtle imagery doesn’t work well for movies. Think the Great Gatsby and the green light. Most people didn’t get the meaning of the green light at the end of Daisy’s dock. Now 2001 a Space Odyssey hit you over the head with Hal’s eye and the fisheye view from it. The accompanying book didn’t. Master film making. Things that didn’t need to be changed; when Aragorn’s sword was recast, the elves showing up at Helm’s Deep, throwing Dwarf humor.

[@starkilr101]

Even though him being spoken love like a malevolent force of nature, but the Eye is beautifully wicked. Different mediums as well

[@shoresean1237]

One controversy could explain another. Let's say that, in-universe for the movies, Sauron made a decision to manifest as the eye to unnerve and demoralize his enemies and remind his servitors of who called the shots. It could have meant a diminishment of his broader overall senses, which he once used to sass out the world around and about him, but he grew to like the eye and its direct view, however it fed to him. But now, this presented Aragorn with a dilemma. In the universe of the novels, he could simply keep up appearances at the Black Gate to draw Sauron's sense of things to focus on him. But the eye was very close to a physical eye, like a mystic camera whose view was more direct, and yet like an eye, given to wander or waver in its focus. Aragorn needed to keep Sauron's direct view on him at all costs, whereas his broader senses would have kept with him regardless, as the leader of his enemies. The eye having changed that equation fundamentally, Aragorn had to make himself seem desperate and panicked, and fearful. So he engaged in an act unworthy of a king, and the scorn of many a fan. He beheaded The Mouth Of Sauron, as obviously only a shaken false monarch would do so low a thing as to kill a diplomatic messenger offering to treat over a few barbed insults. The Eye took in what the broader senses would not have been alerted to, the death of one more soldier or official being meaningless in a battle this size. But as a physical sight, the beheading of the Mouth convinced Sauron his foe was a weak leader, to do such a thing, and made him want to savor his supposed victory - and thus by sacrificing his dignity as King, Movie Aragorn kept the physical eye from casually scanning the rest of Mordor until it was too late.

[@michaelsavage7884]

Would love to see Peter Jackson do the Angmar Wars and War in the North. Only if as good as the trilogy in writing and effort.

[@bedlaskybedla6361]

I think that Sauron in his physical form is more intimidating than flaming eye. Flaming eye is pretty much fixed in one location. Yeah, it is always watchful, searching for ring, but that's everything it can do, the rest is on his servants. While Sauron in flesh can anytime go away from Barad-Dur and face you directly if needed.

[@MajorHavoc214]

For the movie, I liked the idea of Sauron being the pupil of the eye of Sauron. It was a great way of representing the evil that Sauron represented.

[@mastraxe2256]

In the books, before the fellowship leaves Rivendell, Frodo gazes south on the journey ahead and spots a red star hanging low on the horizon. Frodo feels uneasy and a sense of forboding. After the movies, this moment is expanded for alternative interpretation as one could imagine this as Frodo seeing the Eye of Sauron from afar, the eye of the antagonist and protaganist gazing at each other before their doom, somewhat knowing that only one of them will survive. It might not be what JRRT intended but it demonstrates how adaptation can change how one view the source material!

[@silverheart4049]

Once you know what Sauron did to Numenor- persuading to the most blessed, triumphant kingdom of Men into becoming an accursed and unholy thing so terrible Eru Himself wiped it off the map- the film version always seems shallow as depicted on screen. People say Sauron is a shallow villain, a nebulous Dark Lord, but that's only if you don't understand what he did to the world. Middle-Earth will never recover from the Fall of Numenor. One of the reasons RoP sucks is because it doesn't seem to understand the massive spiritual and civilizational tragedy of the story it says it's telling. Of all things, the Amazon show The Consultant gives a better view of what Sauron should have been depicted as in his Annatar years than what RoP shows, though obviously with a different aesthetic.

[@Alexs.2599]

Agreed, good point.

[@Kyle-qd2sy]

One change I wish Peter Jackson didn't make was the visual destruction of Sauron. The tower crumbling and the eye desperately looking around until it explodes was certainly stunning, however I think it would have been more impactful if the movie had shown the shadow rising over the battlefield, music rising, hand outstretch as if to strike at the Men of Gondor only for the wind to blow, the music stop, and Sauron's impotent spirit carried away. I can't help but feel it would have hammered home that Sauron is truly gone. Especially for people that didn't know how the story in the books end, it could have been such an amazing moment.

[@tinic1]

I've felt that Aragorn stabbing the troll's foot while being crushed beneath it was an ode to Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth. The fact that is was supposed to be Sauron makes it even more meaningful.