How the Force BEATS the Push 3

This week my new friend @PinkBuddhaAcademy stopped by to talk about the Akai Force vs the Ableton Push 3! Be sure to check out his video as well here: • Push 3.....does it KIL...
If you’re already interested in buying a Force, consider using my links (affiliate) to help the channel at no cost to you:
Zzounds: www.zzounds.com/a--3981117/it...
Perfect Circuit: bit.ly/perfforce
Amazon: amzn.to/3PMBVgu
Check out my music on your streaming service of choice! hyperfollow.com/dylanparis
Thank you to my Patrons: Tempest Anderson, ipodmypants, SIGMATA, Cutestory, and Derik Taylor. Join them in supporting my channel here: / dylanparismusic
Save 7 percent on DistroKid, get your music on all the streaming services, and give your boy some money at the same time here: distrokid.com/vip/dylanparis
MY GEAR:
Main Camera: amzn.to/3ApKw1a
Secondary Camera: amzn.to/3ybdQFW
Audio Recorder: amzn.to/3nEVd8n
Gear Stands: amzn.to/3ah26tv
#akaiforce #push3 #dawless

[@lurelover7065]

No matter what DAW or stand-alone you buy no one has ever done everything you can do on them. Most of us are lost in consumerism. The feeling you need more or something missing. That's what this critique sounded like.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I respect that this is your impression....but I'm a pretty huge fan of Ableton Live, and have almost no criticisms about that DAW. Hardware is usually harder to nail, as you run up against physical limitations. Also, what's behind my views of music gear - is that I consider them to be instruments (not just gadgets). If I were playing an acoustic piano - i might have thoughts about the action being like butter, and having so much expression....but also maybe the pedal sticks a bit, and I found that distracting when performing. What I'm usually looking for is a piece of gear that I connect with physically/emotionally - because it feels expressive, dynamic and playable. I consider something to be "missing" either because it feels limiting to the creation of music, and to the playability as an instrument.

[@lurelover7065]

​@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Agreed, 1/2 way, I think you get the best from hardware through compromise, but no you can't just sleep with any hardware that comes around.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I am definitely always in search of progress. For a long time people were surprised when I told them I made music on laptops cause they used to be underpowered. Now your whole studio can easily run on one. To me we are approaching a level of gear that really truly can be an all in one studio, I think it’s fair to 1. Be excited to try new things when they come out, and to enjoy that process and 2. To point out areas where they could improve. This is valid both for the companies who should get that feedback, and also for potential buyers trying to decide if something is worth their money. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this and watching the video!

[@lurelover7065]

@@DylanParisMusic "always in search of progress" Well lucky for you, all you need now to make music is to be able to write a prompt, but hey, I guess there's always room for progress.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Oh man, I absolutely loathe AI, fair point where progress can mean destruction 😅

[@jaco6thewilliam]

This is EXACTLY the kind of conversation I seek to hear / strive to watch every time I'm making a decision between two pieces of quality gear. I'd love more of these kind of videos with the same two people... as I feel your personalties vibe in congruence with both of the voices in my head involved in a civil debate. Thanks guys, New sub here

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the collaboration!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

What would you love us to discuss next? And glad that you found it valuable!

[@JasonCova]

Agreed! Would love to see more of these with you two. Thank you for creating and producing this!

[@MichaelBLevi]

Thank you both for the collaborative analysis. This kind of information helps a great deal when you're on the fence about which device to choose. I think the Push is going to do what I need. Push + Live Suite is spendy though, so it's time to strategize. Thanks guys!👊

[@DylanParisMusic]

Heck yeah! Thanks for watching, I was really hoping this level of discussion would be valuable for viewers!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️✌️

[@polymathism7598]

Thanks for this man, great additional conversation. Still so many questions about these two. But this was great to listen to. I may be the only person that doesn’t care about the ableton integration. I export stems after creating on my devices and instruments more now and love that workflow. Analog fun for me. So I hope push 3 becomes more stand alone because I love the warping. if not a force 2 with more ram is just fine.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I totally agree on exporting stems! I keep thinking how cool a push 3 into Logic Pro on iPad workflow would be but it’s basically impossible right now without a mac or pc running Ableton in the middle

[@polymathism7598]

@@DylanParisMusic yes 🙌🏾. I rock with Luna now to process stems. but that is super attractive

[@iso_brown]

This is a very nice conversation. Please do this more often ;-)

[@BuleriaChk]

I was wrong about the time signature issue (post deleed). I am now very impressed by the Force, and will be ordering shortly Probably from Reverb).

[@alexstixx]

My biggest gripe about the push 3 is if you want to do anything not "in the box" on the push 3, you have to transfer your project, make your changes on a computer, and then transfer the project back to the push. It's incredibly annoying if you have things like m4l devices because sometimes you have to reload those.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

That's a good point - but prob some of that will be smoothed over with updates. I'm back and forth a lot anyways, so maybe that wouldn't bother me....? But also - I get my Push 3 this week, so I haven't *actually tried it yet!

[@clayxaviermusic]

Fair but also from experience on the force once I transfer projects off they never go back onto the force. Too much hassle, while you could transfer it back and forth I’d imagine it’s just annoying as the push if not more.

[@100keigh]

As a Force owner, I've been waiting for this head to head, since the day the Push 3 released. Thanks!

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thanks for watching!

[@palentier1]

Cool the two of you are making a video together. I enjoy both of your videos

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thank you! It was a really different and cool process!

[@philippebackprotips]

Yes, both cool.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

We will prob do more soon!

[@th-wf3sz]

My opinion is that Ableton & other companies are still playing catch up. I'm a Ableton user, but own the Force. I prefer creating on the Force, & I'm sure the next Force update is gonna be massive.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed!

[@PoboyMusic]

I have the push 3 and still love the force. I can fly around the force much quicker as a standalone. Pretty sure the preamps are better too

[@weclome]

After tried out both I went with Bitwig.

[@phoenixloop]

Sold the Force; the locked ecosystem and mini-DAW on a tiny screen just didn't do it for me. Spending more time in Bitwig these days.

[@WotanSkyFather]

@@phoenixloopSo you just went back to a laptop?

[@MashmanMusic]

Great video. Thanks!

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thanks for watching!

[@mega-spinz]

Both devices are incredible. Thanks for the review.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed! Thanks for watching!

[@StrosB4Hos]

I just want some updates for the Push 2 that I feel could easily be made. First and foremost can we get a global transpose and warp on drum rack from the the Push?

[@apoclypse]

The independent sections on the Force and the powerful macros is imo why it's better than the PUSH3. Like Pink Buddha mentioned the Force was originally intended as a performance device. It didn't even get the arranger until a year and change later after its release. On the Force I can be performing on the pads, launching scenes on the screen and turning knobs and all of that can be independent of each other. I can have project level macros, I can use the pads as macros, I can use the screen as an XY macro, cross fader macros. That macro system is second to none. Bitwig just got track and project level modulation/macros. Ableton doesn't even have that (without some workarounds). There is really nothing else like Force in the market. It's not as pretty as Maschine+ or PUSH3 but it's extremely functional and forward thinking in a lot of ways. I would love to see a Force 2, I can't even imagine what they would do with that.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but Ableton not really having track and project level macros.....? Are you saying that's not available via the Push? Because yes, there's no effects rack that can control multiple things across the whole session. But you can easily have a midi controller that does. I use the Midi Fighter Twister - and that controls a bunch of different effects/stuff across my whole session.

[@josuearesav]

It's also interesting how AKAI made the original APC40. It was amazing with Abelton and many other MIDI applications. I see the Force as a stand alone for anything. The push is quite literally a controller, for now. But I hope AKAI starts using MPE technology. I just wish the Force had MPE. Although this technology drives the price up a lot.

[@el_dani]

The APC40 is quite literally a controller for the Push 😂 (mk2 to standalone: no power brick needed 💪)

[@xntricity6446]

The force is superb, totally agree.

[@TheSakuraGumiLTD]

For me it's only the MPE function (and improved pads for it) that's standing out and for that I would only want to buy the controller version. When people start to custom upgrade and the standalone software matures, then I might then buy the upgrade kit... although, I'm wondering if it's possible to build you own internals from scratch and simply load the Linux OS and the standalone software onto that. As for the FORCE, it is still far more closer to a DAW than the PUSH 3 will ever be... but they aren't selling that, they are selling a live performance deceive so that's not really a argument to compare devices just what your needs are. The FORCE though isn't quite hitting that out of the park yet. I love the DAW like song mode... game changer (for me anyway). And then you can add a 32 in/out class compliant interface/digital mixer will with the digital mixer you then expand your processing powers for a good price... heck the SSL BiG SiX works with it, if you want to expand the DAW thing... the big problem with this is you can not record multiple tracks at once... so 32 ins is now just a means to organise other devices a little easier before recording. Multi-Track recorders are not a advanced technology so they could implement this in a future version. If there was to be a FORCE 2... or whatever they call it, maybe not even the "FORCE" anymore... I think it'll be a number of years before that would come out anyway. If that had MPE and maybe a couple other quirks then it'll knock it out of the park. As for "FULL" ABLETON integration... it's never going to happen, not now they have a standalone, what they could do is look to be able to full sync up with the PUSH 3 standalone, while allowing a USB pass through to a computer to the have a fully synced setup for live. I'm thinking what could happen for live performances then is any vocal processing on the computer can be done in ABLETON and latency kept low by that being the only part the computer is processing in the software... then the actual song time line saved and controlled by this new FROCE... which is only a twinkle in fans eyes at the moment that AKAI have to play Cupid to

[@Marcelo-rb4sb]

I'd love if they could start making less gigantic devices. The APC 40 have one of the greatest dimensions and functions, if they just add a moving screen and all the rear connections of the force to it they would nail it

[@stighelmer1265]

I have the Push 1 and only use it as a controller for my Ableton sessions at home. I need to upgrade it and Im looking at the Push 3 or a used Push 2. Money isnt really a huge issue as I would rather spend to be happy than saving for something Im mid about. Every review I see focuses around the standalone and I would really love some input for us non-standalone users.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I made a video about using it in controller mode recently! If money isn’t too much of a concern I definitely recommend the 3 over the 2

[@HelicopterRidesForCommunists]

I was so syked for the Force initially when it promised to replace the Push 2 and be standalone. It utterly failed as a controller for Ableton Live, and I was very disappointed overall so I sold mine on Reverb and picked up a few Elektron pieces. The DTkt/ST/OT - and I used them in combination with the Push 2 and a laptop. Recently I sold my Push 2 and ordered a Push 3 tethered version and am waiting for it.

[@xdvn1290]

Got myself the Force to see how well it could replace the OT for a one-machine whole live set, I hope it will do well, but I'm keepin the OT for now haha, I can't split from this beast of a machine!

[@HelicopterRidesForCommunists]

@@xdvn1290 The Force is just a slow clumbsy hardware DAW. Elektron Devices are inspired instruments that unlock new doors to creativity.

[@dylansang1747]

Also both versions of the Akai APC40 had Ableton integration. So that relationship existed before the Push. The Force in some ways reminds me of the APC40 with the cross fader

[@DylanParisMusic]

yeah I'm super curious what happened that broke that tight integration here cause there's a ton of other akai and non akai devices that can talk to Ableton over USB as a native controller but the Force isn't one of them

[@dylansang1747]

@@DylanParisMusic Hey Dylan! Yeah, I loved how the APC40 instantly mapped to Ableton. It was a pretty great controller. I was never that interested in a push because I thought the APC40 was better for live performance and I just loved that. But I'm trying to love the Force! There are things about it that are just so great (I love sampling my hardware into it). And some things that drive me crazy. -Dylan

[@VentureNW]

Cool. Didn't know you are both in Portland... we are just a bit north of you.

[@renechang2406]

Push isn't really going to be a popular Standalone$2000 unit until it has features as arrangement view and other features. It will sell a lot as the $999 range.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Yeah I think as they add more features and potentially reduce the price it could become a bigger player. The Ableton user base is huge too so it might have that advantage as well

[@jeanlouiscoquin3743]

Happy to see my two best AKAI force KZbinr together

[@DylanParisMusic]

Aw man, that means a lot thanks for watching!

[@HelicopterRidesForCommunists]

Yes totally. Im glad to hear these criticisms and hear this conversation because it seems like there was a lot of fanboyism going on where people were sweeping it under the rug.

[@Unit27]

If you hold Save and press the Device name you can save its settings to your User Library.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Yes but only the device not the fx chain

[@EugenBoico]

Quick question - If I used Force to sequence 5-9 external synths / instruments, would you think it’d work well? How tight is the midi on it?

[@DylanParisMusic]

I haven’t tried it so I can’t say for sure, but on a technical level I think it could handle that especially with the right audio interface if you wanted to route the audio back in as separate channels

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Work awesome - esp if you're just sending midi signals from the Force.

[@ghostinplainsight4803]

Midi isn't a problem if it's over USB although some synths aren't grounded properly so you need to use traditional midi. You get diminishing returns as you daisy chain midi devices together. I had 6 synths and a drum machine connected with a guitar pedal fx return. The audio channels are the problem if you want more than 8 stereo inputs as you only have 8 audio tracks per project, if you need more than 8 you either need an external mixer or use less tracks. I had probably 20 tracks in a single project that were just midi clips to synths with program changes each with it's own audio channel. I used 2 xone K2's mapped to the mixer. It never had any issues, although I could never get disk streaming to work so couldn't multitrack an hour jam like I wanted, and I couldn't record the master using the sampler longer than 14.5mins. The screen size sucks, they won't enable a mouse which would make things so much easier for the DAW lite they have made in arrangement mode. And while they advertise you can you the Force with Ableton or another DAW you really can't, it's very limited. I gave up when 4 of my 5 audio interfaces lost support in 7.3, I waited 6 months for an update then chucked it in the cupboard and got Bitwig to use with my push 2 which is 1000x better. I can close my laptop and just use the push 2 without any issue, plus I can use real mastering VST's to beef up the sound well beyond what the Force is capable of, and when I want to turn a jam into a track it's already in a DAW ready to go.

[@EugenBoico]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I plan on using MRCC Midi Router - it works great with Pioneer Toraiz Squid distributing midi to 6 separate devices. Everything is spot on in terms of sync. I still probably need to test the Force somehow with a multi instrument midi setup. I had MPC Live MK1 a few years back and could not align a 4X4 internal kick pattern with the same pattern going via midi (not usb) to a Virus Ti and then audio back into MPC. Had constant timing issues and decided to eventually sell the MPC. I think the firmware was quite early, so, maybe that has been resolved. Thanks for the replies!

[@InkyDaCaT]

I use midi din to 8 other machines, its spot on never missed a beat.

[@camblackofficial]

I agree with so many of the points here. I got the Push mainly so I have a companion software (Ableton) to do more when I need to. The Force is limiting. I have a great time creating with it but once I reach the 8 track Audio track limit or once I want to add some vsts and export Projects over to Ableton is where the issues start. It's not intuitive going back and forth between Ableton and the Force. I imagine it will be that way unless Akai releases a companion software that will work with the Force. For this reason I got the Push 3 and just before that I had moved to an MPC X. I have listed by Force for sale. With all this being said I still prefer Forces workflow over the Push 3 and MPC X!

[@camblackofficial]

That being said if MPC 3+ Software will work with both MPC and Force I might prefer Force over MPC

[@DylanParisMusic]

Appreciate you sharing your experience!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

@@camblackofficial I think they are headed in that direction....but unfortunately they put their (Force) eggs pretty heavily in the Ableton basket, only for that integration to land pretty flat. I think they are trying to integrate more now with MPC. But it's kind of hard, in that the workflow is so different.

[@Kevhuman]

Obviously it's a cheaper product and is only standalone as a sequencer (quite a good one) but i love the novation launchpad pro3 . Hope they make a mk4 with mpe and a screen !

[@morphicmusic]

The Force was $2100 CAD at the time of release, I gladly paid that because I know what kind of device they were trying to create. I loved it and I watched it grow to be a great piece of gear. BUT as time when on I grew weary of the pads on the Force (basically a Push 1) and the sounds from the internal synths (poor but usable). The Push 2’s pads always brought me back to the instrument. I play both the force and push as an instrument so having great pads is a must. I know the Push 3’s pads are amazing and knowing that it based on the Ableton software and instruments It’s going to be a game changer for me. I loved the Force(sold it After years of good use) but it still falls way short in my mind.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I think the push 3 will definitely be the one for you!

[@producer21207]

The Force Pushes everything aside.

[@vntgmike]

3:33 thanks for the knowledge drop!

[@ToyKeeper]

I

[@williamtocajr.6483]

I'm such a gear head. So, Push 3, MPC Key 61, Modx6+, ASM Hyrasynth. What beats that? Also, just happens to have the Korg Kronos 2 73, Roland Fantom 7 and Roli Rise 49 sitting a corner.

[@HelicopterRidesForCommunists]

Man I have said that exact same theory about Akai and Ableton. You fucking nailed it there.

[@renechang2406]

I think the push will eventually somewhat catch up with force until the force then decides to upgrade again. At the end of the day.Ableton is a software company and akai a hardware based one.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Solid point

[@ieyucel]

I really love the Force. But it is not a realiable product, not just the software but also the hardware wise. After using one and a half year usage, the touch screen started to not responding. When pushing left side of the screen it works again until it randomly stop to responding again. I sent it for repairment. I hope it comes back soon.

[@ieyucel]

The problem was solved. Said that was a firmware problem..

[@alexsmart5452]

New to all this, but what can these do that a good midi keyboard(with pads) with ableton live, cant? Why are these so special as to cost $1000(basic push 3) to $1999(upgraded Push 3) or $1299 for the Force? Ive watch several videos on the PUSH 2 and 3 and while they can do "Expressive" playing I cant figure out what the major difference is other than form factor. Im sure someone said the same thing when the MOOG came out vs an electric keyboard.

[@DylanParisMusic]

They actually do less from a capability perspective, especially if you add a clip launching controller like the Novation launchpad into the mix! What they offer besides the MPE you mentioned already on the Push 3, is the ability to have a standalone device that boots quickly and is dedicated to one specific task. That said, if you like making music with computers and midi controllers they are more powerful and have a lot more options than standalone gear like this

[@alexsmart5452]

@@DylanParisMusic there is a definite learning curve for this stuff...but, its cheap in comparison to the average mid 90s indie underground music maker. Although it was lot easier back in the day with a 4 track Tascam, Korg OW1, a guitar and an amp. but the ability to do almost anything on the production/producing side at the home is incredible. and so much of the basic stuff is free in limited or lite form. You can pay for more bells and whistles but most of that is just coloring or to make things a little easier. or of course to have the coolest new gear, which we think will make up for our lack of "something"(which we are all guilty of in some way, I'm sure. I know I am) lol

[@joshk2181]

So is there still no real integration between Force and Live? How far can you go with it? fun video

[@DylanParisMusic]

There’s definitely some integration but you can’t do real-time note entry

[@xselfcreative]

Force made to be really standalone in mind and Push 3 is kinda and not there yet. Editing notes and other stuff in Force with touch screen is so easy and convenient that Push 3 can not beat. The only downside of Force is it’s cpu and ram at the moment. Besides that when you get used to workflow of Force, the touch screen, sampling/resampling and newly added plugins like Jura etc it is a fast creative production and performance instrument and unbeatable standalone device still.

[@distrans]

This at the 33:50 mark is the really huge thing about the push3. And it costs more to build a device like this. It's one of the first big-industry-devices doing this and it's only the beginning.

[@jean_voyage]

Until it becomes clear that there will never be any hardware updates because Ableton has created their new controller called Shove.

[@DJCJ999]

As someone who has never learned to use Abelton DAW and has always preferred standalone hardware groove boxes the Push 3 doesn’t really appeal to me but the alleged Abelton compatibility with the Force and the Korg E2 did appeal to me… I think the Push 3 is marketed at the Abelton crowd.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I agree, the market for push is basically exclusively Ableton people especially if you want to export your songs to a DAW

[@russcontact]

Great conversation, thank you for all the info. I actually think the Force looks better than the Push, and I prefer the style of buttons on the Force over the Push buttons. Who cares if raised buttons don’t look as slick as lower profile buttons? It’s about feeling during use

[@remyvegamedia]

I'm still watching this in pieces when I get chance. Really enjoying it so far. I just gotta say this... PRICE.... ridiculous on Push 3. I feel like I'm clowning myself buying an incomplete device (with ASTRONOMICAL POTENTIAL, I have to acknowledge) at current full price haha. But even with all of the limitations and shortcomings, I can't shake knowing how comfortable and symbiotic my experience using a Push to develop my ideas is for me. To be fair, Akai Force was my introduction to that world so I can appreciate things about it for sure. I still prefer the experience with Push 2 though. Drum racks/simpler vs. programs/sample edit etc.. I just gotta wait it out though... haha.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I feel you! There’s definitely a reason I bought the push and I’m gonna keep it

[@remyvegamedia]

@@DylanParisMusic Dawg I'm Wayning the F out on that thing. Haha. "It will be mine... oh yes, it will be mine..." As much as I'm being cautious, I know I'll end up figuring out some way to get one. Thanks for the info, man. Keep it up!

[@sternenherz]

2000 dollars to get push 3 with SUITE, VST support, m4l support, Arrangementview. And a bigger display with touch. Then i might be slightly interested. Do you know the biggest downside of the Push3? Abletons development is focused on it for so long, that important parts of the software don't get the attention they need.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yeah - it's kind of lame that you don't get Suite for buying the Push. Or at lest some sort of bundled pricing.

[@wylatron]

Yah the force has 8 audio tracks, and 8 synth tracks…. Buuut, you left out limitless drum tracks that have 64 pads that you can load any sample to, on every drum track! Kind of dropped the ball there.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Fair play! I thought I mentioned keygroups and stuff but I totally didn’t! Sadly stream of consciousness for 40 min leads to some missed details, good callout!

[@spirale7477]

hello what is the best to do a live 1 hour see more between the akai force and the push 3 standalone

[@DylanParisMusic]

From a simplicity perspective the Push 3 would probably handle it better in a single project if you freeze a lot of the tracks as it doesn’t have the same limits that the force does. From a using the controller to perform live perspective the force has more built in options but the push can use external midi controllers as well

[@spirale7477]

thanx sir what controllers midi can be good with push 3 for performance example ?

[@DylanParisMusic]

I personally don’t use too many external controllers but I know Pink Buddha has been doing that more recently, you may wanna comment on his vid for any recommendations!

[@Jyrol]

The Push 3 would be near perfect if it had the Force's touch screen.

[@fotpjusto457]

Force 2 will change everything forever!!

[@marknesium]

I don't get it why they didn't make a big touchscreen for the Push 3....

[@Aaa_aaaaal]

Hopefully there is a Force 2 that releases soon.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Would be interesting for sure!

[@MetroidVisor]

What happens if you buy the Akai Force and just buy a full Ableton license?

[@DylanParisMusic]

Sadness

[@jorgecds]

18:13 bro exporting stems on the MPCs and the Force is possible via Song Mode or the Arranger

[@DylanParisMusic]

yep, I'm saying the Push cannot do that

[@jorgecds]

​@@DylanParisMusicoh yes! I heard wrong... my bad

[@DylanParisMusic]

No worries 😎😊

[@binarysun_]

The Push 3 standalone has a lot of potential and maybe in 2-3 years it’s „there“. I ordered the Push 2 right away and my initial feel was that of an Alpha device. Not even Beta. Alpha. Very early on. Not a PoC anymore but far from a useful device. Typical „banana device“ ripens with the customer. The Force is already there right now. And I so hope for a Force 2

[@binarysun_]

Did I write Push 2? Meant Push 3 ... of course. Coming back to this video and just noticed that. Also to add something more. I don't think Akai will (at least in that HW iteration) make the Force more Ableton controller than it already is because there was no change whatsoever since they've introduced that feature years ago. I wouldn't bye a Force to use it as an Ableton controller anyway.

[@jancarsonweatherby1579]

4:39 "I'm rambling..." yeah.. you really are ... get on with it! :)

[@DylanParisMusic]

Hahaha oh man I don’t know if you’re gonna like this video 🤣😅

[@AdamsOlympia]

To save instrument rack on Push “In Device Mode, hold the Save button and press the upper display button above the Rack title”

[@DylanParisMusic]

Can you build a new rack on device by starting with an instrument, adding multiple effects modules, and then save all of that as a new rack? I have not found a way to do this, it always just saves the instrument without the effects

[@AdamsOlympia]

@@DylanParisMusic Unfortunately not. Was just reading about a possible workaround of creating an empty rack in Ableton and then importing it into Push 3 , where you can use it as a starting point to add the devices you want. Like an init patch. I only have Push 2, haven't tried 3 yet.

[@kevinbirge2130]

I will be using my Force until its vintage gear.

[@mrfish4572]

The Force looks like the dysfunctional great grandchild of the ZX Spectrum

[@Curious_Skeptic]

One was purely stand alone. Seems Push still 'needs' daw. I still think MPC One by far biggest bang for bucks of any device of this nature.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed

[@InkyDaCaT]

Yep you could save custom built stuff on force from day one.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Good to know! Thank you!

[@bugglebegger143]

Price is the major sticking point here, but beyond that it's really a neck and neck fight between these. There's actually no clear winner, which says a lot about how great both of them basically are as the peak options for this kind of hardware. Declaring a winner is actually impossible. Both have glaring strengths, and glaring weaknesses. You could argue for either one and it wouldn't be clear. Honestly, I just want both of them. I love my Force but I really want the Push because I do think that having that Ableton and MAX integration is opening up a gigantic can of creative worms that Force can't really offer. For me it will depend on how well the Push gives access to parameters on Ableton's synthesizers. Force lets you step sequence anything but I feel like the Push is just better at immediate parameter locking, which means a ton to me personally when working with hardware.

[@Ast3rixMusic]

The force has way more features than the push 3. The only thing that the push has that is nice is MPE. Ableton has been working on MPE for years so I guess this is the next phase, but wow it's lack luster that it is limited to only do that and not be able to split the pads for other things. I have a push 2 and I am not a fan of the menu diving. I get way more use out of the force for production. Sure you can't move the rack effects performances as a tracked out thing, but I end up making modifications to the tracks anyway in Ableton.

[@GuilleXyz]

Why are you talking about? Look a video of push 3 features and you Will see that Ableton punch Akai in so much terms, also Akai is full of glitchs and with the years the Machine gets weak, you want more? Ableton is doing all possible to Drop a Update and make the Push better with New features and things😶👍

[@heffe4257]

I’m a standalone junkie, this won’t make me relapse thank God.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I feel like it’s gonna hit a point where it might down the line 🤣

[@heffe4257]

@@DylanParisMusic haha possibly. Waiting on my op-1 to get here, complete noob, we’ll see how that goes. If maschine + mk2 isn’t here by next summer, this might be it lol.

[@auroranamex5886]

My path = model samples > maschine mk3 > push 2 > maschine mk3 And now I think I want force

[@renek.6434]

I'd appreciate some timestamps if you do make such long videos.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Super valid feedback! I haven’t done it before so I’ll need to learn how and figure out where they make sense here but I hear you!

[@heffe4257]

😂 entitlement level 9000

[@renek.6434]

@@heffe4257 it's called feedback

[@renek.6434]

@@DylanParisMusic Thank you. I just think anything over 10-15 minutes is really long.

[@willywonka47]

Nah you just watch the whole video and be happy about it 😂

[@tMena45888]

Wow Push 3 2K with just intro thats insane

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed, standalone needs to include suite

[@el_dani]

You might loose money when you sell devices that you bought new, but consider this as a lone fee. I just hope that Ableton will push their ass for some necessary Push 3 updates.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I somewhat agree, but as I’ve shifted more towards holding my devices rather than cycling them out, the loan fee analogy doesn’t work as much.

[@DJREN2]

If it comes with Ableton lite then its a no go for the price. It should have the full Ableton package. Or its just another controler. The only thing it is better at which the force dont do. Is that it plays the drum racks in ableton. You cant do that with the force when linked to Ableton.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Yeah it really needs to include suite with the standalone version

[@wilkopiano]

As with all standalone devices isn’t it the most valuable lesson to bounce all your midi tracks to audio only to save ram and cpu. Unless you take a super computer laptop on stage. This is why the sound plugins for akai to be played on lego bricks surely isn’t the way forward. External dedicated synths all the way. But then you have to learn to play a piano properly right ?, instead of being beat maker.

[@musikmaschine-ke2ph]

Why is no one pointing out: In Push/ Ableton, you have to start with an empty instrument rack, then load all instruments and fx in there so you can save the whole rack in the end. This should also work with push3, no?

[@musikmaschine-ke2ph]

Just checked the manual online (chapter 4.3): you can load, create and save racks in push3. So one of your main trouble about not being able to save sound design chains is obsolete…

[@DylanParisMusic]

If you try that on the push 3 in standalone it replaces the rack with the instrument you chose. You cant drag it in cause you can’t drag anything cause it’s all buttons and whatever is on the screen

[@musikmaschine-ke2ph]

That’s strange, and hopefully gets fixed soon..

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed

[@nungu60a]

Great video & partnership

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thank you! I’m really stoked about this one

[@sasatakac7825]

Akai Force is a semi finished product.The way I use it,it crashes too much! Haven't tried Push3 but I would like.I just hope it's not the same crap which at the end the Force is to me.Good looking but unfortunately unusable!

[@dleonardrandom3416]

I agree with @lurelover7065. But the problem with this vid, it was two guys just chatting. Making a beat on both, showcasing the speed, reliability, functionality etc. would’ve been a better testament than theories. Chatty patties

[@88keyz]

Hold on did he say can't export stems out I had to rewind n re listen carefully 😂😅😂awww dang wow now I'll finish watching just had to pause not the other type of pause this was a pause smh 🤦 type pause unbelievable type pause are you serious 😂

[@alexwestconsulting]

I'm sticking w Force. Only thing Push 3 is going to do for me is get me a Push 2 for cheaper.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Haha nice

[@kornknork]

I think your first and biggest pro for Force (price) is a somewhat unfair comparison, no? You said that if you want standalone you have to choose the Push. But if that's not a knockout criterion you'd actually have to compare the Force to the controller edition of Push 3 which is "only" 999$ compared to the Force.

[@DylanParisMusic]

The controller version of the push is an entirely different category of device because it requires a computer

[@kornknork]

Ah, does the Force just require power, no connection to a computer?@@DylanParisMusic

[@teacee]

Watch out for Akai Force 2……

[@jsonslim]

Would be great if you actually show the devices in action additionally to speaking ;)

[@DylanParisMusic]

I’ve got a lot of other videos showing both in action but I hear you!

[@iqnill]

Push over Force in one word - warp.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Warp is definitely nice on the push, I don’t use it a ton but it’s a step up for people who do!

[@hihihaha1987]

the vid was good but doesnt bring me forward or backwards LUL still not sure what i should go for

[@DylanParisMusic]

Definitely comes down to what you want from a device and what you’re okay spending. If I had to pick only one right now I’d probably go with the Push 3 but it’s hard to argue it’s the better value proposition and it’s definitely not as fully featured when it comes to full song production on a single device without needing a computer

[@hihihaha1987]

@@DylanParisMusic im fine with using computer, i woulnd need the standalone

[@vertigev]

Dylan, let Pink Budah talk next time lol

[@DylanParisMusic]

I was waiting to see how long it would be before someone commented this haha. We recorded two sessions, one for my channel one for his, this was the one focused on my perspective, his video is more him talking and me responding

[@vertigev]

@@DylanParisMusic Yes, I enjoyed both videos, you guys are great!

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thanks for watching and sharing feedback!

[@MarianoPerez]

Biggest take away, don't count on these companies giving you what you want. Buy a product for what it can do when you plan to buy it.

[@Lordxfx]

Comparing MPC's with the Push concept is just the wrong way to go about it. An airplane has wheels too. No other software manufacturer developed a dedicated hardware controller for their flagship software sequencer. Akai just copied a couple of core concepts of Ableton Live to the Force platform which also made it a good platform. Ableton will never allow total integration to Live by a third party hardware manufacturer. Regarding Live Performance: Ableton Live sequencer is used both live on stage as in the studio. Meaning Push 1/2 are Live tools too:) I've seen Ableton Live -aficionados on this planet, and they mean business when their punishing on their Push with premade instrument racks. Push3 is a total new concept. I own MPC Live to drive hardware synths. The standalone midi performance is rock solid. I would like to Push_3 it out Who knows, time will tell. Nothing wrong with none of the discussed platforms. Some boats fly and have wheels too.

[@LaurentDiscShowMan]

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA....Buenos aparatos musicales por si solos..pero para mi mi configuracion de Disc Show Man como yo lo digo...Bien animo con alegrias amigos...a dar y a vivir buenos momentos...

[@okeribok]

34:20 and then Intel stopped making NUCs, so there will be no updating this three years from now. The NUC 13 is the last one. Unless...

[@jocamiah]

Maybe Akai should reach out to Bitwig.

[@88keyz]

👍🏾

[@LaurentDiscShowMan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....Good musical devices by themselves...but for me my configuration of Disc Show Man as I say...Well, cheer up with joy friends...to give and live good moments...

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

Hey man, I’m sorry I’m new to this so this question might stupid af but how do these compare to the launchpad pro? I am into classical music, edm, just as much as trap beats or even film score. I need a versatile set up. I want a keyboard to compose melodies with access to a variety of sounds like acoustic guitar, piano, violins, cellos etc.. Then I’d like a pad sequencer to make and layer beats (I’m no drummer so I need assistance). I’d like access to a variety of sounds like edm baselines and drums, industrial sounds etc… but most importantly a pad hardware on which I can also upload melodic samples I have created with the midi keyboard so that I can layer them on the beat sequences I make.

[@DylanParisMusic]

So these two devices work complete standalone and produce sounds on their own. The launchpad technically has a basic midi sequencer that can be used standalone but is much more of a “controller” vs a “groovebox”. I like the launchpad pro but if you want to do what these devices do w a launchpad, you need a computer running Ableton as well

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

@@DylanParisMusic what would you recommend given the needs I have listed above? I’m open to anything and I have a fairly good budget…

[@DylanParisMusic]

Depending on the quality of the orchestral and guitar piano sounds you’re looking for, you may be best served by a Maschine mk3 w the full version of komplete 14 running on a computer like the m1 or m2 macs

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

@@DylanParisMusic I actually looked at that for that very specific reason of needed natural instruments too. Which keyboard would you advise, if any? Keeping in mind both the maschine and keyboard would have to integrate on Avleton

[@hjkhhjkh3635]

@@DylanParisMusic (that being said I could use Komplete 14 on the Launchpad pro too, is the maschine mk3 any better ?)

[@user-zr7yb3if9f]

Akai have already made it clear they have lost interest in the Force.

[@vergellim7361]

hopefully The Force 2 is less pricey than the push3.

[@DylanParisMusic]

If it exists I’m 100 percent certain it will be, cause there’s no way it’ll compete on power

[@wilkopiano]

Akai in control mode is better for live looping. Price, dedicated A - B slider, dedicated arm, stop clip buttons. Bad point akai network midi driver is shockingly bad at stealing focus on all your other midi usb devices and of course 2GB ram is pants! Akai sound packs not great (bit cheesy), thats what a computer vsts are for. push3 still doesn’t have pedal input for stopping recording loop clip in focus. apc40mk ii is still perfect if it had 8x8 grid and a screen.

[@cresshead]

money is always an object though.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Definitely true, just depends on the person as far as what a dollar is worth and what thing they want to spend it on

[@rogeronealjr8051]

To tell the truth akai hasn't learned from the Roger Lynn deal. They used him then dumped him. Akai made push 1 with Ableton then tried to make a stand alone push without them, but use their software as a big marketing tool. So after basically being told that the force was just the force and not a stand alone Ableton product (after countless updates) i use it as such, like another bomb ass super groove box with 64 pads and a touchscreen, SO STOP THE COMPARISON AND GET TO WORK with the new akai Grove box!!!!! Now what they need to work on is a direct connection between the force and the MPC without another software needed. P.s. MAY THE FORCE BE ????WITHOUT ABLETON!!!!!!

[@sacredgeometry]

Interesting insight but for me standalone devices are always going to feel like toys compared to the push when used non standalone. i.e. as an augmentation of your normal software workflow. The draw to working entirely standalone these days feels more like a fetish than a legitimate use case. If you want to get real work done its almost always going to mean doing it in a DAW. So why fight that? You already said you use standalone and then bounce your stems and have to move it into Live. Why bother?

[@DylanParisMusic]

This comes down to opinion and preference. It sounds like you prefer not using dawless hardware which is super fair! I get a lot out of using dedicated devices that I can quickly power on and focus exclusively on. Once I’ve finished the composition phase of a track, I can stem out and move to the mixing / editing phase which feels like a totally separate process. For the devices that are hybrid, you can recreate this by not looking at the screen and not using the mouse etc during the creation process, so there’s certainly an argument for that. I’d say you’re not wrong that we probably overly idealize standalone, but I would say I get a lot out of standalone and I’ve made stuff I wouldn’t have made if I didn’t have standalone devices just due to the limitations and inspirations they provide. But different strokes for different folks for sure!

[@chinmitten]

I’ve had the Push 3 for a day and I doooo not like it at all. Absolutely overpriced. Anything with an SSD that boots slower than a 1996 MPC that loads from a floppy disk is fucking busted

[@DylanParisMusic]

The boot time is wildly slow

[@chinmitten]

@@DylanParisMusic it didn’t take my wifi password either multiple times then wouldn’t let me change what I entered for the password.. so I had to reboot it three times to just enter a new password. 99% sure I’m just going to send it back

[@gazfunk]

I really wanted to like the Force but I just found it a bit clunky. I’m much faster with a computer and a mouse. Even with the Push I find the mouse faster.

[@blablanmoguer]

I Had the force for 3 years ( hate it so bad) I have the push 3 standalone and all i can tell is now the push is 1 000 000 000 better than Akai, force work flow is just horrible super slow and really not made by Musician,

[@clockpoetslabel8240]

push 3 is better! 100% excepts price ok...

[@DylanParisMusic]

Push 3 is pretty awesome! That price difference is a doozy though

[@plutostube]

biggest disadvantage of force is audio warp quality, absolutely rubbish

[@DylanParisMusic]

Fair! Yeah my understanding is the push 3 has the best warping of any standalone so far

[@plutostube]

@@DylanParisMusic yeah its basically impossible to play one imported Ableton live set at even one bmp down than original, so you are not flexible at all, maybe to prepare more bpm options but that means to re export the stems at different bmp and thats a killer of the workflow

[@plutostube]

if wasn't that for sure i will not thinking about buying push 3