Push 3.....does it KILL the Akai Force? (Ableton Push 3 vs. Akai Force)

Sat down with @DylanParisMusic to discuss how the Akai Force measures up to the Ableton Push 3! Be sure to check out Dylan's video (a different take on this conversation): • How the Force BEATS th...
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#abletonpush #akaiforce #akaipro

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Like Samples....? Check out my sample pack channel - m.kzbin.info/door/OD63JgpEnl2U9Yx65y3MbQ

[@DylanParisMusic]

Huge honor to collaborate with you man! Thanks for teaching me so much about the force and graciously visiting the studio! 🫡🙏😎

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Same here!

[@francescodamico7903]

Hi to both of you :-) ... nice video ! But i think that the force, thx to its new ability to stream directly from the hard drive, has "jumped" the need of a RAM hardware upgrade. Don't you think ?

[@DylanParisMusic]

@@francescodamico7903 In some ways yes! But my understanding is that all of the plugin instruments still read from the RAM and don't work with disk streaming, so it's still a limiter for sure.

[@davidallred991]

Oh boy, going to go make a coffee and sit and watch. I have been waiting for a good video with this comparison as a user of the Force as my main brain in a hardware setup.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@lofifren]

Awesome dynamics between the two of you ++ very informative 🎶

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎🍭

[@davidg7136]

Pink Budha! Idk how I found this channel but thank you! Subscribed

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@alchemistrpm82]

Love to see your content Buddha. The way you and Paris riffed off of each other while sticking to your format was great. A little surprised you guys didn’t discuss arrangement! It’s a big feature for Force and a big question mark with the Push 3. Anyway, keep ‘em coming bro

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

You know...we did, but Dylan included that part in his video. We didn't dive too deep on that particular topic. I mean, if we went ALL in to discuss everything, it'd be like 3 hours!

[@allancerf9038]

It's not planned anytime soon for Push 3. Also, while I love arrangement view, you think deep editing in the 'conventional' part of Live (as opposed to Session View) on a small screen is practical? It's a real question, I've thought about it too, "why know arrangement?"

[@DylanParisMusic]

@@allancerf9038 For me I just want to be able to record a performance from Session into Arrangement and then export each track as stems. If I want to do granular editing I'd then have the option to open the whole arrangement up on Ableton software OR use my exported stems on any other device of my choice via different daws or gear.

[@ceciliafbrown373]

Great discussion guys! My setup is Push2 for production in the studio and when I go out to perform I use the APC 40 MK2 and have used them for years. What I like about this setup is that its still all in the Ableton eco-system.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yeah...that APC is an epic controller. They really designed that so well.

[@jklappenbach]

The thing that never seems to get emphasized to novices is that the stand-alone options will be limited to the effects and plug-ins that they can run natively. If your love workflow involves running non-supported plugins live? For most, that's not a blocker. And the ability to travel lightly (no customs bs) is worth it to just bounce everything to stems to play live. But the result is that the features and functionality will be focused to that end. Sure, you can use the devices as controllers, but you may find better value as a non-touring producer in other options.

[@parisdontlikeyou]

For note repeat and changing speeds, I stay on the clip matrix screen, and set the knobs to screen mode. This give you access to the note repeat speed on a knob.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Good tip!

[@russcontact]

Everyone comments on how big the force is, but the push is wider and it’s only 10-15% smaller overall, not a huge difference. They’re both meant to stay on the desk

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Not a bad point

[@mindrobber1962]

The glaring difference right now between these two bits of kit is the price. Since the Push 3 just came out you got to buy it new for $2000. You can buy a used force for between $650 and $700.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yeah...that's no joke

[@SingularityMedia]

Aaaand push 3 doesn't come with Ableton. You need to buy that too.😂

[@KonWickGaming]

@@SingularityMediait comes with intro

[@Yonsdaspaceghost]

your point about being able to dock the push and work in controller mode, then take the files on the go and vice versa so easily is the point i made about my push 3 in the Force and Ableton forums and man did i get hate lol. Ableton is an amazing software, we haven't had this level of daw software in a standalone unit, even with the bugs and limitations, the workflow is awesome, being able to sketchpad in session view on the go and pull up that session so quickly to continue it on the computer (instead of basically rebuilding it or having to adjust/tweak like you have to do with other standalone units including the Force) is so underrated. I don't ever feel handicapped when using the sounds and fx in the Push like I did with The Force or with my MPC Live. The Ableton suite, MPE and 8gbs of Ram combo not only holds its own against my normal Macbook Pro/midi keyboards/3rd party vsts setup but the limitations lend greatly to the creative process. It doesn't feel like 'less' options just limited options.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Good points here

[@stevejeffries5403]

Thanks for this. Having the Force I was very interested in arrangement mode but was disappointed I couldn’t find a punch in/out mode for recording audio. I may be missing something but I have the Live 2 too and this facility is very clearly there

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Hmm...yeah, I've never tried (or wanted to punch in and out). So I haven't worried about that. These have never really been about "traditional" recording - where you are tracking audio. Honestly, if you want that, I might suggest logic on ipad

[@polymathism7598]

There are so many other things to discuss. I hope you all do a part 2. This was great! Would like to hear about midi host support on push3 vs force, midi devices other than keyboards on push 3, Dawless workflow, ableton packs vs akai plugins, competing interests on the push 3 vs akai pretty specific base, DJs/Producer markets. does MPE matter to everyone 🤷🏾‍♂️. I’m so curious about all of this.

[@DylanParisMusic]

we don't cover all of this in my video but we do cover some of it! definitely give that one a watch as well if you haven't!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yes...there's lots more to discuss. This was kind of opening discussion, in a ways.

[@vertigev]

I have so much fun with the custom knobs and fader when jamming that I don't think I'll ever be able to leave the Force ❤

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

They are amazing - like I said, it's a macro powerhouse!

[@SonicVibe]

follow you both dope ya met up !

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@DylanParisMusic]

Good to see you in the thread! Always appreciate your feedback!

[@SonicVibe]

@@DylanParisMusic appreciate the content keep going ! both of ya

[@AdrianGeorges]

Love to listen to your nerdy but fact based disputes. What I liked most and is unbeatable is the comparison from one gear to another. Thanks a lot for that.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@jefgibbons]

Real life hangout! Wish I was closer... If I ever head down the west coast I'll let you guys know!!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol...I know! Found out that Dylan randomly lives here in Portland and had to do a real life collab! And ditto to your local.

[@TheCliffzone]

This video is so inspiring. My main question will push 3 be able to blow force out of the water? In some ways yes, and maybe other ways no. All I can say is the force is very intuitive and easy to mix down your tracks for live performance. Push 3 on the other hand takes you more on a more professional approach depending on what push 3 has to offer over the akai force. My thoughts, I don't know how hard it would really be to transition from force to push 3. Both great in it's own ways but planning on getting push 3 soon.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Well...push and force are both based upon Ableton style music making. So the work flow is almost the same. And yeah, the push taps into Ableton fully, and that's far more professional than the force as a DAW.

[@Madmohawkfilms]

For me , I’ve gone ALL IN on the Force’s AutoSampler. The Plugins are ok , I occassionally will use the free ones but haven’t bought the Paid ones. I do however have lots of hardware and Software Synths and AutoSample my Favorite Patches from them or in the case of Roland’s little Power house MC101 , MY perfect portable Synth with its ability to do Audio over USB direct into Force plus can run off rechargeable AA batteries just crushes it. 2 CRAZY Questions……..I’ve plugged my Akai MPD218 drum pad into Force and used occassionally, can you plug the MPC Studio 2 into Force and use its Scribble Strip? Question 2 Can you plug a Push into the Force and use as a controller? Thank you Kindly

[@kenzgbr]

Great to see you back man. A question very close to my heart as I've been considering both flavours of the Push 3. Would it be so wrong to have and use both? Btw Do you have a Patreon?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

To have both the force and the push 3?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

And per patreon....are you looking to support my channel?

[@kenzgbr]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes and yes!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

So for owning both....I don't see why people would need two standalones like that. But the push as a controller would be very useful if you're using Ableton a lot. I guess...but if just have the funds to buy both, then why not...haha I have a "buy me coffee" link (is like patreon): www.buymeacoffee.com/pinkbuddha

[@marcuspina6316]

Both of you are great content provider for producers. Between you two and bolo the producer, I have 3 reliable production educational resources I truly appreciate!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@cresshead]

push 3 has a lot of catching up to do against the force and some of it is impossible until a push 4 9 screens vs 1 touch screen verses 90's super Nintendo navigation (cursor keys) no qwerty keyboard support for writing file names on push 3 2.5 times the cost for ownership clumsy CV gate support no sd card slot moving files is fenced inside of the DAW on pc/mac dividable 64 pad areas verses 1 single function 7 different areas to work on verses 1 - touch screen, 8x oled screens and knobs 64 pads that can be divided in to 4 quadrants, cross fader push 3 is not actually FULLY stand alone as it requires a laptop/pc and it's DAW to work (moving files)

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I'm not sure they are actually quite in the same race anymore.....though. I'm getting the Push because I use Ableton all the time anyways - to finish tracks and do sound design. Then I will intend to just pop out the push for a performance, then back to controller mode. Or sketch on standalone, and then back to the box.

[@cresshead]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yeh if you're a DAW user a push 3 'controller' makes sense...not so much the tethered 'standalone' version much though.

[@samgoldsberry3029]

Great collaboration! The reason I won't get rid of my Akai Force is because I really think Akai will one day make a PC Software companion for it

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

ehh.....I don't see that happening. But I could be wrong (I've been wrong before...once or twice 😂). But seriously, the reason i say that, is because it seems like they are leaning into the Force using the MPC software instead. You can now open up mpc sessions in the Force. And being that all the effects/plugins are the same, that seems more like what they'd do. But idk - the workflow is so different between the Force and the MPC, that I don't know how it would really work. It's just that the Force is so niche for them, that i don't see how they'd decide to invest into a desktop software. But like I said, I could be wrong.

[@DJXIRITA]

I got an APC 40 MK2, and i'm having the same issues again and again... Knobs and Faders doing things by themselfs... Recording, Solo, and Scene Lauching buttons stopping. That's costing me something money basically every month, because when the gear gets cleaned by a professional, it works perfectly. So i started thinking to get a Push 3. To play without computers, and get a better hardware, that wont bug very month. I use to play with bands... Do you think it worth it?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

The only reason to get a Push 3, is if you really want to use it in standalone.

[@Artek604]

Nromally I'd record my clip launcher performance like this in arrangement as midi + automation, butbi might indeed start doing it straight to audio! Great video ❤

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌😎

[@ickekiecke]

It would be really cool if there was direct splice integration in the force. so you could search and download samples from splice directly in the force.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Agreed

[@mb2776]

13:40 That's a good point and people tend to forget when comparing specs of the 2 devices or specs in general. I would like more than 2gigs of ram in my mpc live 2, sure why not. The more the better. But we tend to forget that both machines run a linux system which can be configured to be really efficient with ressources. So I think it's kinda difficult to look at the specs of the push 3 and thinking it's making that much of a difference, currently at least. What's why more important is the design philosophy behind the mpc line vs the push line in general.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Thank you! Yeah it's always fun to think about the "whys" not just the "whats" when it comes to this sort of gear or really any devices.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Nice points you make here

[@user82938]

Oh, you live in Portland? I had to leave after almost two decades there because it was getting so f'd up. I really miss a lot of it, though, but it just started to feel like a waking nightmare. I hope they get things under control.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Covid was definitely rough. Weird to see things just hit a "tipping point" during that time, where the momentum changed so drastically. Good example for how systems can break/bend, with just the right conditions. A lot of people want to blame the policies, but I think that's leaning too hard on 20/20 vision to look backwards. It's always "easy" to pick out the faults after the fact, and for people to lay blame on certain factors as the "main cause." But in reality, we have no way to test/know how different things would be had covid not happened. Would it still eventually reach this place.....? maybe, maybe not. City dynamics/systems are immensely complex.

[@JakeSweeper]

A possibility that I'd love to see implemented on the push 3 stand-alone is the ability to connect a monitor, keyboard and mouse through the usb-c plug and run the DAW that way. Devices like the Nexdock (basically turns your smartphone into a laptop) would be near-perfect for that.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

But isn't that basically a laptop setup then, with a push controller...??

[@JakeSweeper]

@PinkBuddhaAcademy It would be the equivalent, but nexdocks are $3-400, have built-in batteries, and could solve more than a few "issues" some folks have with the standalone model (lack of an arranger mode, for example). If Ableton is going to put laptop guts into the Push 3, why not give users the option to add a monitor and the rest?

[@ThatBonsaipanda]

This is a great convo especially when listening to both videos back to back. 7:38 - I'll chime in from a technical point of view >> Force has a full fledged Linux computer inside of it and it is not really comparable to an Android tablet (which is stripped down for power usage and size). The choice to go ARM is a brilliant one as you can squeeze a lot more power out of it compared to x86 platform which is as old as I am and not very power efficient (this of course comes down to the programmer's abilities but the MPC OS does pretty cool stuff in the box). I personally can see a very clear path on where AKAI Professional is going with both the MPC and the Force (both share the same 'OS', which is essentially just one executable), it's just going to take time as they prioritize stuff that pays the bills. The Force was clearly born from the thought of "what if we break out of the strict formula of the MPC and create a modern MPC just for shts n giggles?'. I'm very interested to see where it's going to go - probably an in-device store where you can purchase virtual instruments and effects - but most of all, I'd love to see the MPC OS going open source (which is probably not going to happen). This would open an incredible doorway for end users to create their own synthesizers and effects for the entire MPC family.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I also think that AKAI thought it would be more integrated with Ableton, but then Ableton prob had plans for a standalone push by then and didn't want ti really support the force

[@ThatBonsaipanda]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes, the inclusion of the Ableton control integration is a sign of that. There probably was a departure of interests as they didn't really add much Ableton stuff after that (that I remember at least). I took a deep dive behind the scenes into the Linux environment and it is interesting to see how the Force is really a "let's break away from this mold" product where ideas were let rampant, making it a really solid device in my opinion. Still, there are a lot of small things that would make both the Force and the MPC epic devices, especially on the MIDI side. You guys had a really good discussion, as a tech nerd I really loved that, cheers! o/

[@BubbaSatori]

Thanks for the coverage of these. Would like the Push 3 controller version for the MPE facility but Ableton excluding resellers with 4 year 0% financing and 2 year warranties like you can get with the Force is a deal breaker for me.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Honestly...as I've been using it, the MPE is just "Meh.". The buttons are just too small to meaningfully use the MPE.

[@igotbit9454]

The thumbnail is God tier

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

🤘🤘

[@pommedapi3847]

I was in to get a used Force but after seen this video, and a clear statement that the midi sounds you get on the force aren´t that great, make me really consider the push3 or maschine+. The touch screen of the force + the 64 pads were so good but the lack of daw compatibility and really good sounding plugin that on top fill up the ram super fast, make me avoid the Force for production. Bummer because it did look so inspiring when you see people mastering it. Question is now maschine or push3?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Only thing I disagree here is that the force now has better plugins with all the new ones that Akai is putting out. But yeah, the lack of a computer DAW version is real.

[@pommedapi3847]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yes but as you said if you use 2 big ones and the ram is full (1GB for sound 1GB for OS) it will not go far. If you use external hardware this is a beautiful machine. I got one used yesterday and will try it out, 2000 for the push 3 just doens´t feel in balance. Will start with force, see the limits and then move on accordingly. thanks for your calm input and videos

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@artephank]

Mpc is also just a linux computer and there is (not so big) but vibrant comunity doing all sort of hacks (like running force os on regular mpc, running fileserver for wireless transfer, rooting the device, custom mapping, custom gui, screen recording and running custom software).

[@DylanParisMusic]

Good point!

[@CrusaderGeneral]

thank you for this info!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yes....but that's very different than Max for Live being an open source way of modifying Ableton, but one that works "in the system" (vs. unauthorized way you mention). And if (when?) Ableton makes full M4L functionality available on the Push 3 (standalone), that makes it quite the beast.

[@artephank]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy of course, I just meant the part of Push being linux computer - they all are (Maschine probably too:) The possibilities of using Max4Live on standalone is mindblowing. I also think that they will introduce support for (limited list) of vst’s on Push one day (when sales drop enough:) - they wouldn’t use Intel processor if they didn’t have such plans in my opinion. Tools like Wine allow running windows plugins on Linux (not all of the, but many) so it is in realm of possibility imho.

[@alexstixx]

The push 3 firmware is encrypted, so it's not trivial to put custom stuff on it, though max4live is very powerful and the real thing missing is the UI. Most of the underlying functions still work just fine. You can configure your max4live plugins on the desktop and then transfer the project to standalone push 3 and it will work for most m4l devices.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Agreed

[@jerrellsimmons144k6]

Like bolo da producer says where's the beats? A lot of talk about the push 3 but no beats.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I actually made a video last week with a few different beats on the push 3 after watching that Bolo video 🤣🙏😎

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol...well, this video is about the gear. If you want to hear my beats, check out my Insta: instagram.com/pink.buddha.music?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==

[@kaislate]

Navigating, looper, sampler, menu layout...the force is live performance as a second thought. There should be a performance mode that mimics the pioneer djs-1000. As it stands it is really hard to "play" the force without a lot of prior setup. I think the best the force does is midi routing though assigning pads is needlessly difficult to custom midi notes to control other devices. The part you talked about the "arp" and having to push all these buttons is basically the same for every live performance feature of the force. I have a force. It remains a primary use for Ableton link to send tempo to midi devices.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

lol....you have to use your imagination

[@KeirMurphy]

"Force is more of a production device" - your opinion is interesting as Akai tried the complete messaging opposite a few months after release. They pushed the "it's a live performance device, not a replacement for your DAW". I'd say I agree mostly with you now - Akai have slowly pushed it into that DAWless setup position.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Actually - maybe you misremembered....I said the opposite actually. But you are right, that they have continued to build out the Force as a more complete standalone device.

[@Melodic623]

No internal battery?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

The push has one. Not the force.

[@redbirdsaraceno]

Where is the note mode with force connected to ableton?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

It's not there! So weird they didn't include that.

[@redbirdsaraceno]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yeah its a bit of a bummer as its pointless for my purposes to use it to control ableton with out it . even after the latest u[dates they never added that very basic feature for a controller. oh well .

[@floflow1024]

Why do things need to "kill" each other? The music tech space really needs to stop thinking like that. There are so many cool devices out there, and you can make great music with all of them. They can all be on the market at the same time and cater to a different audience. The only thing that matters is: does it fit a person's workflow?

[@elcorcoran]

Exactly. I have both the Force and Push 3 and so far really enjoy both.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol...it's just something someone asked me, and I thought it'd make a good subject line (I.e. For Clickbait). Hopefully you saw in the video that we weren't *actually* thinking that way.

[@Noise-Conductor]

@@elcorcoran It's great that you can buy both, but most ppl can't, so one will have to die as possible choice. Don't take these buzzwords too serious.

[@toxic666000]

force plugin sound quality is really good

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yes...agreed. Ableton ones are great too. I think they're quite equal in that regard

[@producer21207]

In my opinion the Force destroys everything.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

But can it destroy the Death Star...???

[@Noise-Conductor]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes, but only if it's being used by a Jedi Master!

[@johnnyparker2128]

I mistakenly bought the Force based on its potential. The Push 3 killed my Akai Force. Now, will it kill my MPC X?

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Like an atomic bomb! haha Idk - these are all really great devices. It really just depends upon how you want to use them. And which workflow resonates the best with you.

[@allancerf9038]

What went wrong with The Force's potential? I was just about to buy one. Interested to hear.

[@johnnyparker2128]

@@allancerf9038 For one, the arranger was listed as coming soon. It took a year. And they never really solved the warped samples thing.

[@allancerf9038]

@@johnnyparker2128 So you advise against buying it? Your opinion is appreciated. It looks massively capable.

[@johnnyparker2128]

@@allancerf9038 No, Akai Force is definitely a powerful beast but It can't integrate with Ableton Live and perform better than a Push in my opinion. I was hoping the Force would function like a standalone Push. It can't but now we have a standalone Push.

[@Goldlion973]

Impressive that a device from 2019 still holds its own against a totally new device, especially given how fast technology moves.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Well...I do think it's important to note that the Force was basically modeled after the Push. So some of what has continued life is what Ableton established with this clip launch idea years ago.

[@Goldlion973]

@PinkBuddhaAcademy didn't Akai help design the Push? I guess the caveat is with the paid for plug ins. Thanks 4 the content!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

They helped design the first push, but then Ableton took over the design themselves.

[@chrisliddiard725]

Push 4 - with touch screen. This assumes someone doesn't come out with a digitizer overlay and USB dongle to provide that functionality via max4live.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I've been using it for a month now, and you know....I don't really feel like it needs a touch screen. Why do you feel like it's that important to you?

[@pommedapi3847]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy a touch screen and a bigger screen would have made the push 3 a no brainer. editing notes, changing parameters of course. It´s like having a mouse, you know it from the force.

[@LaurentDiscShowMan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....And come gadgets and gadgets..very good for this almost finished Ableton Push 3 similar to Akai Force and with some advantages and disadvantages..Above all to make good songs for a producer clones..I I agree with my Disc Show Man configuration with a key piece with this Ableton Push 3 or my Akai Force among other machines for my MIDI configuration.. Good luck with all things and let's all go with joy...

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌

[@douglaskane4708]

In terms of future…. What’s stopping 3rd party hardware upgrade’s for the Push3… can bitwig, apple, or akai release computers that are compatible with the push3 as complete hardware/software standalone alternatives???. If apple made a Logic Pro m2 upgrade unit… ableton may be able to buy them wholesale to get more hardware options… Push3 could be the new standard for computer music.. and it could go both ways Human interface(mixer format maybe) and standalone software devices

[@DylanParisMusic]

I think the biggest blocker is that most companies want to control their own destinies, tying themselves to a "competitors" product in that way is usually something companies only do with no other option (facebook on the apple / google app stores, game companies releasing their games on xbox / playstation / nintendo storefronts and not on their own console based store fronts). Apple is a great example of a company that would be more likely to just make their own hardware controller to tie into their own daw rather than make a niche hardware unit for a smaller company's product. That said I do think this is a cool idea, just has a few roadblocks to be a reality.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I don't really see the Push being all that great for using outside of Logic. WAY too expensive to then just use it as a glorified MIDI controller. There are plenty of other midi controllers that you could use to do that just fine.

[@KaosEngineering]

Better sound quality on Force, thicker and fuller.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

hmmm.....I haven't compared the sounds. You'd have to do a more scientific experiment to test this - i.e. using the same audio file, play it through each. Then record each of those and compare (by a blind ear test, and then via like some sort of spectral analysis in a computer).

[@DylanParisMusic]

This is one area I actually totally disagree with. Sound is super subjective but pound for pound, plugin for plugin, the Push 3 with Suite vs the Force with all the Akai plugins, the Push 3 sounds way better to me.

[@renechang2406]

I'm not too much of a fan on some of the effects sound quality on the Force.

[@KaosEngineering]

@@DylanParisMusic I’m talking about AD/DA converters only. I don’t use plugins for my livesets

[@KaosEngineering]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes this is the only way :)

[@Doty6String]

i think a big advantage to the forse is it works with other daws...

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Meaning when you export stems?

[@Doty6String]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy no you can use it in pro tools etc. with the push your stuck with ableton. Like playing midi chords on one pad. Kinda a game changer.

[@thomashoffend4299]

Push 3 is underwhelming in CPU, memory, and storage space. Similar for the Force and MPC Live II (I own both), at least for CPU and memory. I put decent-sized SSDs in my units, but we need the extra RAM, high-power CPU, and we need disk streaming on the MPC Live II. Think sky-high like 32GB+, 2TB+ SSD, core-i7 CPU. Haha

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol....but why aren't you just gong straight for a quantum music device?? 😜

[@Flangad]

Akai force is rather old now. Maybe it's time for a Force 2 with more power and memory, more audio inputs, ability to allocate program change to clips for plugins, and maybe add a touchstrip controler... and it would become close to perfect!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Idk...I don't really see them making a new one. Not sure it's turned out like they expected. But who knows

[@88keyz]

👍🏾

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

👍

[@mirosaworzechowski9239]

I was waiting with the purchase of Push for the premiere of Push 3 , but my disappointment was so great that I stayed with my Launchpad Pro 3. The price of Push 3 is absurd in both versions but the version with i3 almost twice higher ? Nothing can explain why one of the weakest chips on i3 has such a price, if it was an i5 at least and a larger disk I would still understand and at least 4 hours of work. And the screen how could they leave this thing? My printer for a fraction of this price has an oled touch screen, my razor also has an oled screen, almost my Glo has an oled screen, what is this gigantic price for? MPE ? Sorry but for linnstrument for many years it's been doing much better ... I'm waiting for Force 2 we'll see if Akai knows what we want and for how much

[@Ast3rixMusic]

I don't agree on the push 3 it's a beta release just like the force originally was as far as features. Ableton did not think about how to truly improve the push 2. The same menu diving culture, the issues with lack of file management, that processor thing has some long term limits as intel has already end of life'd that i3 and intel doesn't work backwards they only move forward. You may be able to upgrade in the same class of EOL chipset, but never above into a new class that is the same issues we see with regular computers. The MPE was the only thing they really worked on with the push. I don't really understand why they chose to try to do standalone without really thinking about what that really meant. It's like designing a car without taking the driver into consideration. Companies are doing weird things now a days we don't want to be beta testers. If you release something and advertise it with specific features then it should already do it and we should not have to wait for them to finish the project. Especially at that price point. Honestly I would be more mad than I was with the force when it was released if I purchased the push 3. It is missing so many features and not live up to what it's advertised as. It has taken Akai years to make the force live up to how it's advertised on the box. It is a mature device now and still has some weird problems that Akai has failed to address. The amount of R&D spent on the force warrants more forces in the future. It is obviously a new product line that they plan to continue. However after learning hard lessons with its original release I think they know better than to release a new one without fixing all the current issues and only adding 4gb of ram. I think they would lose all of the force users they have earned over the years with that kind of stuff. We basically beta tested their product for free. So the expectation is that we get a better machine in return for the next release.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Well - I certainly agree about the tendency to release a product that's essentially BETA (for years). But I disagree that you feel like the Push wasn't really developed enough. I think it's an amazingly designed product, that really takes into account how to make music making more seamless and inspiring. I haven't seen, or felt that same nuance of UI/UX design from another music making company. lol...my opinions though. Respect yours and thanks for commenting.

[@thedon2703]

The Force stomps the Push 3

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol...sounds like you have strong feelings about that!

[@Wendel_Kos]

if you already use Ableton is kind of a no-brainer...if you want to invest (a lot of) time then Force can be super cool! I just hit a big wall with the complicated workflow on the Akai. Just making a quick beat or setting up a quick live set is just sooooooooooooooo much easier on Push. Im not an Ableton superstar, i work for my work with Cubase. But with the Akai i had to print the manual and really, really read it. And still had to go on Facebook or Google just to find out how to do something simple. Its just that complicated. With the Push i did not had that a lot. I dont know, it hard to say until you really use them a lot. In the end its all about on what machine you simply make the best music.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Good points here

[@dankeplace]

I'll say this, P3 has massive limitations, specifically how you cannot make your own Max for live on the unit, you have to do it in software then import, which defeats the purpose of the stand alone of the P3. Force however, you do it all on the hardware, not portable? Buy an external battery, and the unit isn't as heavy as the P3. The other thing is the absurd price, and you don't get the software only Intro for asking $? I get people will already have the software, but for people like me who don't and have been wanting a hardware solution, this is just off putting. Thx for the upload.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

The price is quite steep. I don't know if they'll every allow programming on the device of max. Why not just pop in the computer for that and download?

[@dankeplace]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Te issue is, they're wanting 4K AUD for suite and stand alone, this is about 2.5K more than P2 and suite. That would buy you a stellar PC or laptop and maybe some change, that's why I can't see the P3 being of any value for people who don;t have the software but want a stand alone option.

[@LaurentDiscShowMan]

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA....Como flipan los homimidos...buenos aparatos y siempre pensando a mejor y todo para lo mismo para hacer buenas canciones y hacer bien el trabajo que haga falta...Yo me quedo con mi configuracion del Disc Show Man..Bien animo con todas las cosas y vayamos todos con alegrias...

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

😋

[@MD_is_me]

This makes me want to power uo my Force and give it another go... Then I come back to reality based on the experiential knowledge I've gained about the Force and the superior capabilities that make it the most suitable piece of gear I have for keeping papers on my desk from blowing away.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

🤣🤣🤣

[@binarysun_]

Always to consider: how old the Force is by now and what it brings to the table what imho is unrivaled. I only used the force for a short time but it was ultimately more useful to me than any push has been in over 10 years. What is a huge letdown for me on the Push 3 is that the standalone is out for almost 6 month now and has been in development for so long. But even Ableton 12 brings no features to the table that would make the high price of a push 3 standalone worth spending. I hope Ableton will give P3 the love it deserves before they realize it’s a dead horse because they ignored it

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

The Force is pretty damn cool - I agree. It's just so "isolated" in that it doesn't work well with a computer based DAW. So if you don't mind *_always_* doing everything on the Force, then it's pretty great. I just don't really want to edit/finish something on the Force. The plugins aren't that great for finishing/mastering. I see it as more of performance device.

[@binarysun_]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yeah exactly. And that was the reason I used the Force for a short time only. For me it has to compete with the MPC X. Not only in terms of I/O but also in terms of PC integration. My main daw is Studio One, I have a lot of external devices and I want to use the MPC and Studio One together not being forced to re-cable midi just to switch between the two. With the MPC I can just plug in everything midi there and in Controller mode it acts as a Midi interface to the PC and I can use MPC software and S1 at the same time with all midi devices. I can't do that with the Force. Which limits an otherwise perfect device too much for me. That said an MPC with an 8x8 grid would be the burner. And a Force with Controller mode that works like the MPC's Controller mode would nuke the MPC into oblivion. That said I will get myself a One+ soon for travel and playing live even though the Force is better suited for that. But I won't spend 1k on a device I will only use for live sets and that will collect dust for the rest of the time. I still see loads of potential in the Push 3 Standalone but Ableton has to drive forward that concept which at the moment they don't. Live 12 brings nothing to the table here to raise the standalone value of the P3 unfortunately. And seeing in their latest "behind the scenes" video that the P3 was pretty much a finished thing in 2020 they've had enough time to get the software to the standalone-ness that the Force brings. So it feels like Ableton has no concept for the P3 SO

[@digitaldiezel5870]

I don’t think P3 is a one stop shop. I would still use the Force. They can be used together. But I’m hoping Akai enhances the production features (mixing effects & processing power) in the Force.

[@DylanParisMusic]

Agreed! both devices currently have some pretty big advantages over the other, but if you want to start a song, compose, mix, even master, and then export that song, only one of them can do that right now on device, and it's not the Push.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

@Dylan - yes....but c'mon, it's "technically" not possible to do that on the Push. But taking the Push 3 (standalone) and then just plugging that into Ableton, transfer the file, and export that way - this is a very minor step to take at the very end. Maybe I'm not one to speak - because I have zero interest in finishing a "full" track on a standalone device. So it's not something I'd want to do anyways. Get it to 80-85%.....? Sure. Both can do that just fine. Maybe there are a lot of people who really want to be FULLY daw-less. But really, it's a joke to say the Force is not a DAW. It's 100% a little DAW, with like a tiny ipad screen. With a midi controller attached. So I don't know why that is (in spirit) any different than just hooking the Push up to a computer for the last part.

[@GirlfightClub]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademyzero interest in push it ablalton. I feel it’s convoluted and overrated. Looking at YT you’d think everyone uses Albeton, but they don’t.

[@kvmoore1]

Ot seems Akai had a hard time selling the Force since it came out. Although it is a much better product today compared to when it first came out. I honestly don't think there will be a Force II. With that said, I'm glad I decided to buy my Force a couple of years ago. It's such a beast!!! I will NOT be buying the PUSH 3, although it looks nice as well. The Force does everything I need it to do for me.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I have to agree with you. I just don't see them making the investment to change all the hardware. Unless.....it's just like to add more RAM.

[@kvmoore1]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes. That would be the only reason I could see... to add more RAM.

[@el_dani]

Wait a moment: The force still only does 4/4? 😱

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Yup yup

[@miekwavesoundlab]

Force $650 Push 3 standalone $1750 on eBay and reverb

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Lol...that's def an understandable comparison point

[@Madmohawkfilms]

Use the ipads synths with push 3 and Force. I dont use the synths for Force. To me its grest as a roll your own rompler via the autosampler. Would love a 2 with a beefy processor . AudioKit D1 Synth for $9.99 is a STEAL on iPad

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

That sounds like a powerful combo!

[@ERYKJACKNIFE]

push 3 is a lemon. straight up no chaser.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Not an orange....??

[@ERYKJACKNIFE]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy ha ha that’s a good one. I guess I don’t know enough about it yet but Ill try to stay optimistic about what it may turn out to be in the near future. I’m still rocking a 2009 Mac desktop with ableton 9, apc40mk1, push mk1, and a mpd218 in the center of both machines and I’ve made so many tunes in the last couple of weeks since setting it up. zero crash issues just smooth sailing so I haven’t felt like I’ve needed to upgrade the ableton / DAW setup. Just the other day I was holding a few pads down on the mpd218 and a knob on the push mk1, that ended up sounding like EPROMs new album on my finger tip. A lot of synth demos out there are mostly discouraging, though I’ve been thinking of getting a akai force for a good while, you have one of the best ( all the presets ) demos on YT thanks for that. And respect @PinkBuddaAcademy for the education and musicianship. I to believe that making everything in one box is cute and yeah your smart, frugal and resourceful. But we got a record to cut. And we’re gonna be right back at the console once you finish your Beat little pattern. Maybe a lorange😅

[@ERYKJACKNIFE]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy and yes do a part 2. MPE technology will never hold a candle to a real instrument. you know though bro. I’m the dude that has an octatrack mk2 and a real book on the same desk.😉

[@ERYKJACKNIFE]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I stopped watching at 8:00 minutes. But man you guys (the viewers) just get you a good daw setup $2700 for a machine with a lite version is a bogus idea if you want to start making beats. WHY…? Is Correct I just saw a video with the thumbnail saying. “Akai has to stop” or something to that effect. Turns out this guy has an MPC X, MPC one, MPC live 2, MPC keys, and is hurt that they came out with a MPC X SE. I guess that’s what happens when your chasing the red dragon 🐉 you guys get it now. The best hip hop records of all time where created on a 1MB floppy disk. Just saying.

[@Yonsdaspaceghost]

uh oh gonna upset folks with this topic

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

🤣I think the subject line will....but prob not the content

[@hvhvgitaar]

The Push3 doesn't support arrangement, so it's really not much use for songwriting or production beyond simple sketching of ideas. There's also not much access to the plugins and effect chain. Probably OK for performance if you prepare well....

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Well...and you can always just plug it into a computer and go with that!

[@allancerf9038]

A good review but dude's commenting below, are unlikely to buy Push 3 anytime soon, I'd wager. I have a Push but the pads required massive tweaking to be useable. I think Dylan's comments while meaningful, are a bit naïve about both the price point and counting on the user 'community' to provide possible workarounds. I haven't 'played' the 3 yet (but have the opportunity to do so) but it seems equal parts a great machine and one released with some cynicism. It's genius that you are future proofed to a *degree but even with chip factories burning, and Fry's going out of business - i.e. cheap hardware 'isn't' anymore, still, at 2K, Ableton could easily have installed better hardware. (One reviewer said it choked on the Ableton theme song!) Anyone buying this as a first controller would be insane not to buy with some sort of return period. I hate to do that to retailers but in this case, sorry I would. * Ableton has stated that certain hardware you wish to install as an upgrade may not work well. Anyway, an excellent review. I'm actually in the market for The Force, lol. OOPS, did not know Push 3 was only available through Ableton, for now at least. And they offer a return period.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

I disagree with you about the points Dylan (and I make) about the Ableton community. Max devices are a huge reason why Ableotn is such a thriving platform. People create devices all the time that do things that Ableton hasn't even thought of doing. I've gone to Ableton Loop - and the amount of brilliance and ingenuity in that community is really unsurpassed. So if Ableton opens up the full power of Max on the Push, it's going to explode with unique opportunities and new powers.

[@allancerf9038]

@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Huh? You answered my remarks with an non sequitur. God bless the Max for Live community, that's great. I use max for live devices. Most do. Max for live community can't fix buttons the wrong height and while Sound on Sound (real brilliance there) gave P-3 an excellent review, the reviewer said the pads were better than P-1 but not great. They can't fix the battery for a guy whose battery never goes beyond 85% despite the fact he doesn't use it. He wrote in forums: "The power management seems to be broken. It's that, the software burning CPU cycles for no good reason, the battery is faulty or a combination of these issues." He hasn't even been able to authorize and despite two requests for help No one (he says) has even replied. Not even to tell him "we're behind but we'll get to you." Loop may be great and some guys creating great devices, etc. If you buy an expensive sports car you don't look to a software community to fix your faulty battery, you don't ask a software community to authorize your warranty. I use Ableton daily. But I think it's The Force for me until there's more good faith from the mothership in Berlin. Like I said I appreciate your review. If you're in Portland, Oregon and not Portland Maine, we're close...I'm in Greater Vancouver. Best, Allan

[@dleonardrandom3416]

Ableton helped create the force. That’s like 70 percent of their tech

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

But also...akai helped make the first push!

[@larrytan73]

Alkai makes both

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Don't understand your comment

[@CrusaderGeneral]

Akai doesn't make Push3 hardware

[@AutisticCuriosity]

Push doesn’t kill Force Akai does that really well themselves with their broken updates, terrible customer support, inflated prices and switching off addons you paid for if you don’t connect to their servers every 90 days

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

lol...a very valid point

[@yaroslavkozatskyi9074]

Too many talking about technical specifications like RAM, CPU etc.. The ableton users completely did not understand that this point is not relevant in a context of standalone devices, especially about the akai

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

🤷‍♂️

[@artephank]

Oh, and all new mpc releases are being predicted by community by reverse engineering firmware.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Like looking for future capabilities in the firmware...?

[@BuleriaChk]

Force has only 2/4, 4/4 Time Signatures. Deal breaker for real musicians.... :)

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Truth

[@christopherpederson1021]

ableton lost me when they stopped selling from vendors.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Why did that bother you so much? I think that's just going to be while they roll this first edition out. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's prob because they just don't have the inventory yet to sell in all the major retailers.

[@dhaze909]

no touch screen in 2023, c'mon the push 3 is a complete flop

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Idk....I'm not that into touch screens. I think they are over rated. Too easy to fat finger things. They pack that screen full of small details that would be hard to navigate with your fingers.

[@LaurentDiscShowMan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.... How homids freak out... good devices and always thinking for the better and all for the same to make good songs and do the job well that is needed... I'll stick with my Disc Show Man configuration. Good cheer with all things and let's all go with joy...

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

✌️😎

[@Allogettingmoney]

I can end this debate right now for you champ with no videos needed. Push 3 is better period. Why? because it has REAL!!! Warping capabilities. Akai force warping is soooooooo bad its practically not even useable. because of this my Akai force is siting in a corner. Its the one feature that had me literally stop using it.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Ok yeah...that's a great point we should have touched on

[@88mokeyz32]

The Push 3 will destroy the Force, Akia will have to build a new Force in order to keep up with this Push 3 and the update compatibility of this Machine. the Push 3 will be trouble for all groveboxes, the only thing question is the sound of the Push 3. No one uses the Push like they use the MPC users. Akia does not beef up their units with memory or ram. This box is changing the game in terms how you buy in the future it can be either or!

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Well said

[@lurelover7065]

Jezuz! These conversations sound too desperate. Both of those machines are doing more than anything we could have imagined decades ago, no one has ever done everything you can do on tech or DAWs 20 yrs ago. I don't mean to diss progress, but hey it's hard to appreciate inventing the wheel when as soon as you invent it you're already talking about spaceships.

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

Haha....good point.

[@DylanParisMusic]

I agree in some ways but I also think that thinking like this would have kept us with flip phones, disposable film cameras etc. I think it's good to want progress and really there's still a lot of room to grow as far as how most people use computers to make music vs standalone gear. The raw power of the Maschine Plus for example holds it back. I'd say we're asking for cars rather than space ships, because sometimes it feels like these companies are shipping horse carts and steam trains to compete against f1 racecars.

[@lurelover7065]

@@DylanParisMusic "I think it's good to want progress" -you " I don't mean to diss progress"-me

[@DylanParisMusic]

@@lurelover7065 sure but you followed that immediately with a “but” hahaha

[@lurelover7065]

@@DylanParisMusic No, I said what I said cause I knew that people might read it as anti-progress and I was trying(I mean really trying) to keep that from happening. Jeez!

[@mjascosmicals-sense9117]

Not at all the Force is in it’s first Edition which is basically the Push 2 before the Push 2 became into existence! The the difference is it is a standalone Push 2 & the Push 3 has the exact same Push 2 screen which means even though you can make a full production from start to finish will be easier on the Computer full Program so it still is just a sketch book for ideas that will be finished on the main computer! The fact you have to use the same Push 2 screen that’s rubbish I have the Push 1 & brought the Force loved it but had a faulty model so got rid of it! But will buy another just waiting to see if a Force 2 comes out I like the Akai Force & hope they do bring out a Force Two that will be better! ♾️⚖️🪶⚖️♾️

[@PinkBuddhaAcademy]

idk if they'll do a Force 2 - but I could be wrong