How THE GOA'ULD Changed - LORE EVOLUTION

Back with another episode of my new show, Lore Evolution. This time we're taking a look at Stargate's main villains and how they changed dramatically between the movie and the show.
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[@RowanJColeman]

BACK THE BLINDMAN HERE igg.me/at/the-blindman/x/21922182#/J

[@sadieluellen9193]

looks interesting and has tons of protentional

[@pyeitme508]

Please make a video about Ghost Recon?

[@RowanJColeman]

@@pyeitme508 Honestly I have no thoughts at all about Ghost Recon haha

[@StefanKirchberg]

hey, how do you combine lovecraftian with slasher movie? For myself i see lovecraftian horror as the total opposite of slasher/gore which are two genres i'm no fan of.

[@RowanJColeman]

@@StefanKirchberg Well you'll have to see the movie haha

[@gregcampwriter]

The movie version works for a one-off movie. A television series requires more detail in how things work to sustain the technology/mythology.

[@TheArklyte]

Yep, it does... detail that were never added due to low budget. Not to mention constant nerfs to everyone, but Tau'ri, that resulted in each smaller remnant state somehow being more dangerous.

[@laurahealy2163]

Yeah, and that's where they were lazy. Oh, we don't have to use Ancient Egypt, that would take far too long, so let's just make up a Goa'uld language and a Jaffa language. For every other situation let's just make them speak English. Jonathan Glassner & Brad Wright were the guys who brought "Stargate" to television. Dean Devlin & Roland Emmerich hated what they did with it. Of course, they didn't have much say in it, since MGM owned the rights. Jonathan Glassner left after Season 3 and by Season 5 the dynamics had shifted more to ship Jack/Sam rather than stay with the natural chemistry between Jack and Daniel, Jack and Teal'c, Teal'c and Daniel, Teal'c and Sam, etc, etc. RDA left the show completely in Season 9, but his production company, Gekko Films, had stopped production before then.

[@brucenadeau1280]

@@laurahealy2163 I am glad they stop wasting money people speaking in different languages for the aliens

[@laurahealy2163]

@@brucenadeau1280 You're missing the point here. As a fan of the movie, I stopped watching "Stargate SG-1" because the only chance I had to view it was the latter half of Season 1. Believe me, there were several episodes that were crap. "Farscape" on the other hand, addressed this concern by having DRD's inject microbs into John Crighton's brain. Now, I'm not a "Farscape" vs. "Stargate SG-1". Because later on, when they announced Dr. Daniel Jackson was returned to the show, I watched all the old episodes. But, the point still remains...

[@laurahealy2163]

I actually loved how they put Teal'c, a Jaffa warrior, in. That was a variable that absolutely worked! Then they introduced us to the Asgard, the Nox, the Ancients (early version, later version sucked), and even more "primitive" races like the Unas. But what they did wrong was several things, like making up a language for the Goa'uld and then having their Jaffa -- with absolutely no training -- learning how to speak American English fluently. One thing that did bother me was they made up a character and put her into the story...

[@SormonAusPol]

What annoyed me about the Goa'uld, was the loss of the animal themed Jaffa. I always loved the Serpent and Jackle designed armour and it sucked how in the latter series they just dropped the concept.

[@jeghaterdegforfaen]

I think the helmets were most functional as ceremonial garbs for guards on subdued worlds where the people believed the goa'uld to be gods, their large silhouettes and red eyes being an intimidating symbol of divine power. But in actual combat they look cumbersome and impractical, inhibiting movement and making them large targets for anyone with a gun. Even with the suspension of disbelief, how can you expect a group of people to dominate the galaxy when they disregard such obvious tactical flaws. I think the shows' creators moved away from elaborate armor in favor of realism.

[@hassathunter2464]

They... don't? In Season 8 they even had fully animated Jackals dealing with Ra's forces, and having the budget.

[@Jadedog2001]

@@hassathunter2464 what episode in season 8?

[@hassathunter2464]

@@Jadedog2001 Pretty sure it was during the timetravel episodes at the very end of the Season.

[@fgdj2000]

I thought the movie helmets were awesome. They also cast some truly intimidating actors and I felt the Jaffa never felt as menacing again.

[@KingOfMadCows]

I think SG1 did miss a lot of opportunities with the Goa'uld, mainly due to limited budget. It was always disappointing how all the Goa'uld had pretty much the same technology and ships. But the the system lords pretended to be the gods of different mythologies. So it never made sense for someone like Yu or Sokar to have the same pyramid ships as Apophis and the Egyptian myth Goa'uld. Each system lord should have had their own distinctive technology and ships inspired by their culture and myth.

[@Lasershadow]

I just got to say that the limited budget thing is probably the only thing that stopped it from achieving it's full potential. Such a shame that money killed a franchise that could've stood alongside titans like Star Wars and Star Trek if given enough to reach that height.

[@ianmckee4726]

Well the show implied that gould tech was like the gould themselves, heavily focused on using others. Hataks and staff weapons and the like were pribably all just designed off of some ancient tech the early gould found after they started using the gates. And simce they were pretty much unchallenged other than esch other for millinia, they just stick with what they have. Although ur right, with all the stuff Baal does in the show youd think hed have overthrown everyone else with mad scientist stuff.

[@Marveryn]

personally I always prefer ra to be the last of his race. but they should had move the Goal as another race that serve as Ra admistrators for the varies system he control. Once he died the system lord battle among each other to take Ra place on the top of the empire@@ianmckee4726

[@bluelotuslandscapes]

Meh, it was made pretty clear that the Goa'uld were scavengers and all their tech was acquired or stolen. Indeed, it's also suggested that their identities as old Earth gods were also stolen. They came along, adopted the persona's of these human gods and used those persona's to rule. They lacked the technological capacity or creativity to come up with new ideas, identities or designs. Possibly a few in the past were clever enough to create the whole "Egyptian themed tech" but they were few and far between, so all the other System Lords just used the same models.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

To be entirely fair they didn't have all that many genuinely brilliant minds or designers so my personal explanation was that they had to mostly rely on one or two guys. Besides. They constructed those things from space Lego using slave labour and regularly tried to pinch talent from eachother so intercompitability is rather important. As for standing next to Trek and Star Wars, I'd argue that's 1) Not necessarily a good thing (Just consider the excessive amount of dud seasons of ST) and 2) Impossible, because SG is, without trying to be pretentious here, several times more morally complex than either of those.

[@kamilgregor]

Ra didn't "take on a guise of an Egyptian god". Instead, the Egyptian god is based on Ra.

[@AspieMediaBobby]

@Kamil Gregor Correct but it`s a common misconception.

[@lexaproqueen9681]

Glad someone mentioned this.

[@josephroszell]

Ya it didn't sound right unless that was a difference between the movie and series but I don't think it was

[@hopefulmayhem5744]

@@josephroszell it was. The show implied that the gods stole their guises from earth gods which made 0 sense even then.

[@Ken-lv8ej]

I loved the Goa'uld in SG-1, especially the first quarter that focuses on Apophis as the big bad. Peter Williams is an absolute gem and you can see he had so much fun in the role.

[@thebibosez7949]

The Goa'uld evolved in other ways. Ra and Apophis were little more than a glorified mine owners. Heru'ur was just a thug. Nehrti, however, (sp) was a geneticist doing advanced research into making superhumans. Yu was a marginal ally rather than an open enemy. Seth was a pitiful cult leader and homicidal maniac. Sohkar was a fool who believed his own hype. Baal a clever bastard who came up with imaginative and convoluted schemes. And on and on.

[@kirishima638]

Baal? As in Bocce?

[@dickbahls9012]

While it's (I think?) openly stated the Goa'uld are scavengers, Nirrti is more ambitious and tries to pursue her own technological advantages (she was also the one working on personal cloaking tech). Probably out of necessity to give her an edge, as I recall she was a "lesser" Goa'uld in terms of a smaller empire and army.

[@ToonamiT0M]

For a one off movie, having the alien be more of an unknown works. But maintaining that kind of mystery for a show that wants to last more than a couple of seasons would be almost impossible. So expanding and explaining the Goa'uld, while removing mystery, opens up more story opportunity.

[@RowanJColeman]

I would have preferred they just make the Goa'uld different things all together.

[@ToonamiT0M]

@@RowanJColeman Darn it. Now I thinking about how Ra could have been from the race of the gate builders and the Goa'uld could have been even more parasitic in the way they take technology for their own use. Maybe the Goa'uld could have been responsible for the extinction of Ra's people. So many fanfic ideas.

[@kamui003]

@@ToonamiT0M I like your idea that the Goa'uld used Ra's people as hosts in order to steal their tech. That would actually make SG1 more consistent with the original movie.

[@joshuaewalker]

I love both the movie and SG-1 equally and differently. I'd never trade one for the other and I know they don't mesh, but what Brad Wright and Jonathan Glassner created out of the base concept of the Stargate movie is probably my favorite TV show of all time. Thanks in no small part to my love of Richard Dean Anderson as Jack O'Neill.

[@davethebeard2706]

Amen!

[@kreaturekie6753]

Right up with the changes to buffy

[@joshuaewalker]

@@kreaturekie6753 That's a great comparison! I love the classic Buffy movie, but I also love Joss Whedon's TV series and the follow-up comic series.

[@kreaturekie6753]

@@joshuaewalker look at the info on buffy the movie for a surprise

[@michaelflett09]

@@kreaturekie6753 i dont think you can really compare Buffy and Stargate as Buffy was made by Joss all the way, they never really changed anything other than "dusting" but they gave an extended budget to the series and played the vampire corpses as a joke at the end (of the movie) with the principal giving them detention,

[@maxbootstrap7397]

Most changes from the original movie to SG1 were ... excellent and well chosen. Others were almost necessary, and many were very well conceived. Just one example is the decision to make Abydos one of the nearest planets with a stargate rather than "at the other side of the known universe". Let's forgive the original movie for being overly grandiose in their desire to impress with such an absurd exaggeration. They wanted to create awe, after all. However, any science-fiction television series that has hopes to last for many seasons needs "room to grow". If story-creators start at "infinity", they leave no way to top themselves, and no way to create a progression of interesting and fascinating material across years or decades. And so, making Abydos close to earth gave the series room to grow. And, their explanation was pure brilliance. How so? Well, remember that earth was the only place in the entire stargate network that has their own kludged-together stargate control device. So the very true notion that the control device would have to compensate for "stellar drift" (star motion as the pin-wheel shape Milky Way galaxy rotates) was the reason the earth stargate was unable to connect to thousands of other stargates throughout the galaxy ... because stellar drift becomes greater the further you go from earth. That's all totally true, and perfectly explains why connection to other planets did not happen previously, and lets the series producers create "room to grow"... which eventually reached out to other galaxies (to find Thor, to find Atlantis in the Pegasus galaxy, to justify the premise of StargateUniverse, etc). I'm not going to criticize the author of the video for his opinions. It is very easy to fall in love with something like a movie, and not be able to fully appreciate variations upon the original. I'm not saying every idea and change SG1 made to the movie was perfect or brilliant. But overall, the franchise started with SG1 was vastly superior to the movie, *especially* as a vehicle that could be grown for years or decades. After years of thought and consideration, I've come to the conclusion that SG1 and SGA were flat-out the best science-fiction series ever. And the basic stargate premise (from the movie) one of the greatest premises ever. Unfortunately, to explain why in detail would require a 5-hour youtube video of my own, which I'm not prepared to make.

[@majormononoke8958]

I dont agree, i think Babylon 5 is the best Science -fiction -series ever created ... And since we are talking about series ... The bad self declared nerd- sitcome "the big bang theory" is really bad with bad jokes and some really weird hollywood propaganda with hate spread against nerds, minorities and women... So no woulder they would bash the best or one of the best science-ficiton series of all time " Babylon 5 " everything that shitloud of series never will be " THe big bang of failed writers with some really masculinity - insecurity-complex " .

[@maxbootstrap7397]

@@majormononoke8958 : I didn't watch very many episodes of Babylon 5. Perhaps by coincidence I saw the worst few episodes and gave up. But I'm curious... for what reasons do you consider Babylon5 the best science-fiction series ever created? And perhaps give me a list of the 5 best episodes for me to watch to balance off the stinkers I happened to see. Thanks.

[@majormononoke8958]

max bootstrap ok, first Babylon 5 has a story and plot that carries through all the series and movies, there is no " after the episode all it normal again" like the star trek and stargate franchise, that makes the the events in each episode more relevant and impactfull. In Babylon 5 we see all perspectives of the different people/ aliens, though some get more focus obviously... Secondly the characters all develop through the series with the viewer, some more to positive, some other to more sad ends. Than we have all this different factions that fight for their interesses and are not some bunch of brainless zombies with no personalities, all aliens seem to be different and dont look like humanoid monkeys from USA and Canada. We see the people struggle, they speak their mind and are not emotionless glorified people, that suffer in silent and are perfect in everything and win against the highest odds over and over again without any lose. IT doesnt forget the problems of its characters after just an episode in which it was topic... IT explores the problem of social together in many aspects ... IT explores the different races and their societies... IT has 1 + music score, seriously it is great ... The series is a bit pixeled but the animation, ship desing, etc. looks great, unique and mysterious ... It respects its characters and doesnt constantly underburrows them like certain star trek character -> example worf,etc. ... The story isnt a glorrification of US- Military- policies and invations and of course global police interventions ... And in that instance, the story isnt about a future, where the people act like they are from our time and are hypocritial to assume how others should act in the future like in star trek. It feels real, but still is ficiton ... Acting is good to awesome, cant remember a part where i thought ... oh meh ... All aliens have personalities, even the backround characters have more personality than many of the main characters in other series, movies... Character interact between themselves and are not some side characters that only do stuff if the protagonist comes in contact with them like in some video games. The scenario feels real and crazy at the same time ... People actually can die... You literally feel the forces in the backround move their pieces ... ITs characters act for their principles and dont just forget about them ... You grow with the series and dont just get stuck with it in the past ... All planets look differently, and are not shot in the same wood in Canada... the Series deals with deep topics in all different areas ... The characters get to your heart... The weight of the events can be feelt by the viewer... Not just one Main character plus the supports cast ... All of the main are main ... Set desing makes sense and is good ... blablbabal How to watch ? From the Beginning, it is really important to watch it in order, so you dont miss something important and you realize and feel the development in the series and of the characters... Since the hole series has an plot over the entire series, even more ... Otherwise you probally wont get impact of the events, and the acting of the characters, tragedy,etc. hope i could help ...

[@michaelflett09]

@@majormononoke8958 they dont really visit planets on B5 so the Canadian woods reference is kind of a mute point, the planets we do see are all cgi shots even Earth. The series story plot only flows from seasons 1 - 4 with the finale being cut from season 4 and pasted on season 5. Though that is due in fact to the studio only giving a 5th season at the last minute, as for character deaths only three "main" characters die, of those three you only really care about two of them TW & MC. WK was forced in them by the network and JMS took great pleasure in killing him off The development of species has similar problems starting with the pilot movie and first season where the more alien looking Narn are the monster villians and the Centauri the victims, though the change to seap this sround was done masterfully For a list of must see episodes id say season 1 has some poor ones my personal favourites of season 1 Mind war, signs and portents, Babylon squared and season finale chrysalis. The show picked up on action with season two somewhat though still has a few slow episodes, i cant pick episodes as much from season two as they are all plot and subplot heavy season three is where things get heavy messages from earth point of no return and severd dreams being some of the best episodes "Paragraph 47, subsection 19, clause 9A you can find it in the index under S.U.A.E.I. " Season 4 has one of my absolute favourite episodes Rumors, bargains and lies, Season 5 has some really bad episodes the telepath arch for instance. I do love the series. And i will never argue that it does have some of the best character driven stories in Television

[@majormononoke8958]

@@michaelflett09 aha, Which telepath arc ? Where the telepaths rebel in the lower sections of station ? I dont agree with you that many important characters didnt die ... What about talia? The telepaths, which we got to know and than died later, thx to bastard ... Londo in the movie if i remember corretcly, D,kar Sheridan in the last episode... Vorlons/sinclairs travel into the past ? Marcus dead and ivanovas departure only to come the last episode ... kosh death? g+kars assitent, we find her later in the prisons of the cenautri prime... etc.

[@LazarusRemains]

I prefer the original Lovecraftian conception of Ra from the movie and the exaggerated Ming-like villains like Apophis from the series, compared to the later Anubis-era stuff, which removed much of the cosmic mystery. Apophis is probably my favorite Goa'uld. However, Stargate SG-1 seems to have been making a rationalist point. I guess as a work of rationalism, akin to Star Trek, an iconoclastic Stargate SG-1 demolished the pretensions and illusion of the Goa'uld as if to say "there is no mystery that cannot be solved with sufficient investigation" - the seemingly supernatural entities turn out to be little more than worm-like parasites when the veil is lifted, and humanity used insight and innovative science to defeat a technologically stagnant tyranny. Stargate SG-1 might be one of the most potent works of rationalism outside of Star Trek.

[@therightone5708]

I wholeheartedly agree that SG1 was trying to emulate Star Trek's rationalism and I kind of prefer that view point. for me personally leaving things mysterious is like developing a great buildup and then not delivering on execution.

[@matthiasbindl7085]

You mean before or after the energy near omnipotent, scient entities showed up that literally are powered by faith and souls?

[@UGNAvalon]

@Matthias Bindl - Well hey, those powers were still explained within the bounds of science (“evolution” & “technology”) (even moreso than the omnipotent beings of Star Trek, like the Q, I might add!) , and it still takes technology & investigation to undermine the power systems that the (now near-literal) god-beings had established for themselves. ;D

[@anubis8181]

SG1 hands down.

[@DavidSamuelPeckinpah]

That's O'neall... With two LL's!

[@catnium]

nope Atlantis for sure

[@05-15.]

(Cough) Universe

[@tarync6539]

Which couldn't exist without STARGATE. The movie is an incredibly unique look at aliens and gave us 17 seasons of Stargate based mythology. Even Stargate Origins was fun. Id really love to see a new Stargate but hundreds of years maybe 500 years into the future to see the SGC if it survived and the Tokra ect

[@johnhandfasting2773]

I love the way the jaffa went from arine to red shirts

[@Maelum_]

when I think of the Goa'uld empire, I think of it like the Holy Roman empire, with Ra being the Emperor, and the other Goa'uld System lords being the Prince-Electors roughly.

[@AndyMcCavish]

I'm just as much affected by my own nostalgia of watching SG-1 with my son so yeah - snake heads all the way!

[@manbearcookiemonster]

Most of the Goa'uld in SG-1 are silly but, SG-1 is still the favorite in the franchise. They are an instrument for the creators to make good stories and characters around them. For me The Ori is The Goa'uld done right. Baal and Anubis are the most enjoyable to me in SG-1.

[@RowanJColeman]

I really liked the Ori story line. Brought back some of that existential terror which the Goa'uld lost.

[@sugarnads]

Rowan J Coleman they went on waaay too long tho.

[@RowanJColeman]

@@sugarnads Only two seasons and a DVD movie

[@pollall2793]

Rowan J Coleman They where actually supposed to have more seasons, but they weren’t for the movie rather than another season or 2. Which sucks, but The arc of truth was great, so no complaints really.

[@kamui003]

@@RowanJColeman The Ori are closer to what Ra was in the first movie.

[@axepagode33626]

I have seen all of the SG-1 episodes several times now. I came over to Stargate after Farscape went off the air. Ben Browder and Claudia Black had joined the cast. I remember watching the one episode that Claudia did in season 8. Not knowing the history of the prior seven season, that episode was weird. But, I enjoyed it. Prior to the beginning of Season 9, I spent a summer watching all the old episodes on DVD. I found a great deal on 8 seasons of DVDs for $125. That was less than a 75 cents an episode. I was amazed at what Wright and Glassner had done with the original story. Clearly it was TV stories and not movie stories. I didn't expect it to be. But I liked the changes the made. Having the Goauld be parasites that like to play god around the universe was a great way to see many different earth cultures would change if they were spread around he galaxy on Earth-like planets. I wish they would have spent more time on that stuff.

[@demono6708]

Axe Pagode you can get all ten for about £50 if you know where to go

[@joeblaster8770]

Why can't the Sci Fi channel make good tv shows again?

[@RowanJColeman]

Because they can't help but cancel them all

[@scaper8]

@@RowanJColeman It doesn't help that they won't even call themselves the "Sci-Fi Channel" anymore. The whole "what's in a name" aside, when your corporate culture is ashamed enough of your own bread-and-butter genre to feel the need to change the spelling, it's not a good sign as to your feelings towards putting time, money, and effort into making the best versions of the genre that you can.

[@proggyboi7115]

@@RowanJColeman You know which show they should have never cancelled? Caprica.

[@johnmiller4859]

My question is similar: where have the good TV shows gone? I really don't like the superhero shows or urban fantasy / vampire / witch shows (with the exception of Supernatural which is a comedy in many respects and has a lot of the Stargate crew involved). Cancelling Dark Matter was a bad move for scifi, 12Monkeys eneded and with the exception of Supernatural, about the only thing a care to watch is "Mr. Robot", which is more intriguing than entertaining. I will probably give The Expanse another chance. I hate to say this because I love the shows, but Babylon 5 and SG1/SGA/SGU ruined a lot of TV for me. Dark Matter and Supernatural worked for me because the dialogue writing is similar to Stargate (same folks involved).

[@proggyboi7115]

@@johnmiller4859 Have you seen Star Trek Deep Space Nine or Battlestar Galactica? If not, they're some great examples of sci fi in modern(ish) television.

[@rubenvd3913]

I love how Stargate SG1 combined three things that I love: space opera sci-fi, current day military action and the mysteries of mythology and ancient history.

[@taddawesome]

Didn't really talk about the evolution throughout the show and missed the goal imo

[@doug7897]

I definitely understand your recton fatigue; if the show took any more liberties with the material they started from, it'd be like Tin Man is to Wizard of Oz (bit of an overkill comparison but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet). I'm leaning towards most of this being intentional for the purpose of letting them tell a story they might've already had in mind but needed some groundwork to build off of. I would try to argue that it "honours" the general themes/concepts the movie put forward, but frankly I don't personally hold the movie on a high pedestal; I just see it as the spark for what became one of my favourite shows hands-down. I like how the show ran with concepts like the alien false gods and the stargate itself. SG-1 had a pretty solid framework revolving around the concept of aliens posing as or being interpreted as gods/monsters (the replicators being an exception for variety sake). For the first episode or two I thought Atlantis might do something similar with monsters (the wraith seeming like very detached inspiration for vampires), but instead seemed to focus on the SG-1's other concept of so many bad things being traced back to the ancients in some way. BTW I'm kinda at a loss for how you consider movie Ra to be lovecraftian. He has mysterious origins but from my passing understanding of lovecraft stuff that's not enough to qualify. I'm not seeing anything "cosmic" about a tech-dependant immortal that rules over mining colonies.

[@bluelotuslandscapes]

I kind of thought the same thing regarding the "Lovecraftian" idea, but a quick look online actually kind of explains it: From Wikipedia: "Some scholars use "Lovecraftian horror" and "cosmic horror" interchangeably. Cosmic horror has been characterized as: 1)The "fear and awe we feel when confronted by phenomena beyond our comprehension, whose scope extends beyond the narrow field of human affairs and boasts of cosmic significance".[3] 2)A "contemplation of mankind's place in the vast, comfortless universe revealed by modern science" in which the horror springs from "the discovery of appalling truth".[4] 3)A naturalistic fusion of horror and science fiction in which presumptions about the nature of reality are "eroded" Also: "Several themes found in Lovecraft's writings are considered to be components of a "Lovecraftian" work: -Anti-anthropocentrism, misanthropy in general. Lovecraft's works tend not to focus on characterization of humans, in line with his view of humanity's insignificant place in the universe, and the general Modernist trend of literature at the time of his writings. -Preoccupation with viscerate texture. The horror features of Lovecraft's stories tend to involve protean semi-gelatinous substances, such as slime, as opposed to standard horror elements such as blood, bones, or corpses. -Antiquarian writing style. Even when dealing with up-to-date technology, Lovecraft tended to use anachronisms as well as old-fashioned words when dealing with such things. For example, he used the term "man of science" rather than the modern word, "scientist" and often spelled "show" as "shew" and "lantern" as "lanthorne." Lovecraft was an Anglophile, and frequently used British spelling, as in the title of "The Colour Out of Space". -Detachment. Lovecraftian heroes (both in original writings and in more modern adaptations) tend to be socially isolated, reclusive individuals, usually with an academic or scholarly intent to compensate for social shortcomings. -Helplessness and hopelessness. Although Lovecraftian heroes may occasionally deal a "setback" to malignant forces, their victories are temporary, and they usually pay a price for it. Otherwise, subjects often find themselves completely unable to simply run away, instead driven by some other force to their desperate end. -Unanswered questions. Characters in Lovecraft's stories rarely if ever fully understand what is happening to them, and often go insane if they try to do so. -Sanity's fragility and vulnerability. Characters in many of Lovecraft's stories are unable to cope mentally with the extraordinary and almost incomprehensible truths they witness, hear or discover. The strain of trying to cope, as Lovecraft often illustrates, is impossible to bear and insanity takes hold." The layman's view of Lovecraftian is "giant space demons", "tentacles" and "eldritch horror" But looking at the above definitions, the movie's Ra kind of fits as well.

[@Generalkidd]

On the subject of them telling stories they might've already had in mind, what's always had me curious was how long ago did they have the idea for Stargate Universe. Even as far back as the original movie, they already had 9 chevrons on the stargate. The 8th chevron wasn't explored until a few seasons into SG-1 while the 9th chevron went over a decade before it finally got touched upon. So it's made me wonder whether they've already had some concept of Stargate Atlantis and Universe as far back as the movie

[@KLamki1]

@@Generalkidd I heard the film creators were going to make the trilogy they wanted but then it got scraped. Then MGM came out with low budget short series called Stargate Origins. Any news where Stargate is heading now? Liked Atlantis, hated SGU (such massive departure from the theme of franchise). But I always preferred the Goa'uld and movie Ra. Think I'd prefer to see a mix of both merged together. Like the film village of the dammed. They remind me of Ra with the whole unworldly psychic abilities but still have biological properties too.

[@MarcWeavers]

yeah i can go for that "Ra's previous host was asgard"

[@MarcWeavers]

no idea lol

[@danielmcelhatton1724]

The Lovecraftian angle never occurred to me as I got into Lovecraft long after I saw the film. I’ll now have to go over things I saw in my pre Lovecraft days and reassess them.

[@NicholasDunnAutistic]

I like the Ra/Asgard theory. Ra did over throw Anubis, probably did after acquiring an Asgardian body. And with the Asgard/Goa'uld hybrid that Ra was the other system lords feared and bowed down to him. I do feel like the Ancients/gate builders could not have been explained as much.

[@paszmaty]

Ra portrayed by Jaye Davidson remains the best systemlord for me. Aside from Davidson's awesomeness the mystery around him and his race did it for me.

[@edwardaugustus9680]

An interesting minor change they could have done was have the Goa'uld (show) be in fact a different species that were essentially Raboos (very obsessed with Ra), either due to being a former subject species similar to the Vorta from DS9 or just from nicking all his stuff after his initially fall from grace 3000 years prior. This would preserve more of the mystery around Ra. It also would have played up the false god aspect of the Goa'uld more (i watched some of the clips you included in the video with this mindset and it does change things a bit). As for Anubis he could either still be a Goa'uld or he could be another of Ra's race, both have story telling options of either reaching heights Ra never reached or getting revenge on the galaxy for Ra's death. Additionally as i wrote this it occurred to me that the Tok'ra could in this version be revealed to have been the majority of the Goa'uld race in the distant past with a much more powerful empire than the current System Lords, but their war with Ra basically ruined them in every sense of the word and could offer one explanation as to why the Goa'uld became a thing. This would really play up the idea that they only defeated Ra in the film because he was already weak and they were lucky. Though this last idea may just be me as a Tok'raboo.

[@sykeassai]

Well here is a thought for you to consider. The "lore" established in the film is based entirely on if I remember correctly, what Danial reads from the hieroglyphs. We can assume that the "lore" in the film is based on either what Ra genuinely believes having isolated himself on that planet for so long, alternatively on what he's had written in order to try and convince anyone who can read that he is somehow unique and special.

[@Nym146]

Yeah I definitely prefer the TV show to the film personally but also a huge fan of Atlantis.

[@axelander9397]

The cool thing about the serpents is, that it is quite a unique design for an alien. Meaning that the Goa'uld aren't just another humanoid.

[@DECEPTICONUK]

It was explained in the TV show how Ra was in charge of all the goa'uld but when he died the rest of the system Lords started fighting for control, with apothis eventually taking charge. Sg1 was done very well but was sooo much better from season 3 onwards. Great vid as always bro, keep up the good work.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

Now, wait, wait, wait: yes, there were obvious retcons, but part of that was that the initial 'Gate writers hadn't really worked out the go'a'u'ld in any real detail, and didn't what to share info. We're told that Ra discovered earth about 12,000 years back, and that his species is dying out for unstated reasons. If you wanna make that jibe with SG1 (which i admit it doesn't totally fit) then we just need to remember they previously used Unas as hosts, and also this was probably immediately after the war with anubis, who was defeated, but who probably didn't go down easy, and i'm sure his defeat likely did put his species on the ropes. It's n the 12,000 years since then, that's plenty of time for their numbers to have recovered, and I think Yu is the only one exprssly said to have been around in the Anubis war. The others are all quite a lot younger

[@michaelflett09]

And you also must factor in until they found humans they did not have Jaffa to incubate their young

[@artembentsionov]

I loved the Ming-like attitude of the Goa’uld, matched only by Jack’s pointed insolence (“I don’t know the meaning of the word! Seriously, insolence, what is that?”). Most of them clearly bought into their own propaganda and needed to be taken down a peg. And even Zipacna made a good point during the triad about it not mattering now the Goa’uld managed to acquire their tech. The Tau’ri got most of their tech from other races too, and that’s somehow different?

[@simmo1024]

The Expanse on Prime will be, erm, an experiment. The first over-arching arc of the universe completed with s3, so s4 will be a new arc, which may or may not translate as well as the first three seasons; not to mention the change in masters may influence the series in ways that are detrimental as they look to maximise their return. Here's hoping it is as exceptional as the first three. Oh, yeah, I thought maybe that Ra was an Asgard that had been possessed by a Goa'uld. Possibly before they developed their current bodies. That would explain the difference in look and the technology differences as well as the perceived age. The best factional development in the series was the humans of course - their technological development in particular. The moment the prometheus first lifted off still chokes me up. if only...

[@bluelotuslandscapes]

Yeah, the idea that Ra had previously possessed an Asgard has been tossed around a lot and could definitely work. We saw in the 5th Season episode "Revelations" that 30,000 years ago the Asgar d looked a lot like weird, skinny, big skulled humans. In the ensuing 30 Millenia, their forms changed to the diminutive Grey's we see in SG-1. We know the Goa'uld were bumming around the earth 10 thousand years ago (give or take) so it's feasible that Ra possessed an Asgard maybe 15-20 thousand years ago, explaining the different look of the flashbacks from the movie. Ra's Asgard host was an intermediary form between the ancient Asgard from Revelations and the final degenerative form of the modern era. My rationale is that the body Ra possessed was from an era when the Asgard were already heavily into cloning (hence the drastic change in appearance over just a few thousand years) Either the cloning disagreed with Goa'uld sarcophagus and hand-device tech or the androgynous form disagreed with Goa'uld... sensuality... or maybe Ra just recognised the species was already on a downward spiral, so he jumped ship for a human host. Given these theories, Ra's story can be shoe-horned into SG-1 canon without too much trouble.

[@DaveNarn]

I like that the System Lord Apophis (Peter Williams) was also the cool headed ship captain of 'The Weeping Somnambulist' in season 2 of The Expanse. A brief part, I wish he had a longer story arch.

[@worldtraveler930]

Okay, here is a condensed summary of an Extremely Long conversation I had with my friends it goes something like this; Rah was indeed a scientist, the last of his kind and trying to extend his own life who stumbled across an ancient technology that he didn't fully understand the sarcophagus but it could only do so much for his own body and as he was a top scientist of his own race who also studied the U'nos / Gould, and then later coming across the humankind and seeing that the sarcophagus could easily repair their bodies he used the knowledge he took from studying the Gould and used it to parasitize his body inside a human, but not having realizing the Gould possessed race memories that they used his own memories to escape Rah's lab's then soon after Rah's destruction the Gould which he experimenting with used his own memories are able to create the ghoul system empire with the technology that his race left behind.

[@LDrumsOhio]

Great video!

[@whatever9448]

To me, SG-1 is way up there with ST:TNG among the best TV sci-fi ever produced. SG-1 mostly suffered from having a limited budget even by standards of the time. When other science fiction shows at the time usually had $2 million per episode, SG-1 only had $800k per episode on Showtime (seasons 1 to 5) was slashed to $500k during season 6 after switching to Syfy then raised to $1 million for the remaining seasons. Still, it's amazing what the producers managed to do with that budget, there wasn't much left after paying everyone especially RDA and Shanks who had the biggest payrolls. Atlantis had $1 million throughout its entire run so they were able to offer more grand episodes with giant space battles and heavy VFX.

[@UGNAvalon]

Since Anubis got so little video-time despite your professed love of his character, this makes me want to ask: Could a cold-open using SG-1 Anubis (all the creepy superpowers, minus the backstory-planation) have acted as a fitting sequel to the original Stargate film (either as a film or as a tv pilot) ? -Better yet, how would you have preferred the show/a sequel-film be made, as a closer successor the atmosphere/spirit of the original film? What aspects/characters of the existing show (if any) best match how you’d want a followup to appear, and how would you try to fit them together? I’d love to see a video exploring that! Also, thoughts on the prequel-miniseries?

[@DCimpressions]

I love this kind of video cant wait to see more. I really did love the mysterious, lovecraftian horror, eldrich power element of the movies Ra. I think the show writers could certainly have continued with that. The thing is that a structure like that seems, at least to my casual eye, to be inherently limited in scope and length. They could never have stretched out the same cosmic mystery surrounding ra to fuel 10+ seasons of a sci-fi show. Still could have been nice to see a sort of miniseries or short run show that built off the lore of the movie. Instead the show writers seemed to have decided that the source material was too limiting, which is a fair critique i guess. The show both literally and figuratively opens up the lore and geography of the universe. They added an expansive network of stargates, kept it miliky way centric, added many new races, etc. I do really like the reinterpretation of the Goauld though. The idea that they are parasitic worms was built so well into their character and the over all stroy arch. Stealing their technology as well as the bodies of their hosts. One of the central aspect of the plot of seasons 1-7 was demystification of Goauld power to all those they enslave. Its not so much that they were "over explained" as they were unpacked, explored, and exposed both to the subjugated peoples in the show, and by extension to us watching it. I guess im saying the loss of mystery was less a failure and was more a byproduct of the shows progress along the central story of combating the Goauld. The show writers did a good job keeping it fresh at least by giving us larger, more dangerous villains in the form of Anubis,Replicators, Ori. I know there have been many talks of reviving the SG franchise but i really think it should be left to rest where it is. The original feelings of mystery and an expansive and dangerous universe were natural grown out of long ago. Atlantis and Destiny were able to get part of the way back to those feelings, but ultimately im not sure there is room for more shows. Perhaps a new franchise heavily borrowing from the Stargate movie and its implications could be good? Oh man, sorry for this long and poorly worded comment.

[@SciPhiFox]

I actually prefer the serpent version. It is more creepy due to it having more substantial body horror creep out factor. The thought of having one of those wrapped around your spine, ready to release deadly poison, creates a feeling of dread of being in a no win scenario while being a prisoner in your own body. Quite scary if you ask me. At least until the Tok'Ra made removing them a minor surgery. That kinda takes the bite out of it and they become more bark, less bite.

[@kevinritter6448]

Interesting take. The System Lords (Goa'uld) were always meant to be subservient to Ra. No matter how strong they each got they were never good enough to over power him, not for 10,000yrs. The Goa'uld didn't trust each other enough to ally for any length of time, let alone a prolonged campaign against their boss. Its likely they were unaware that Ra had lost access to Earth even after all this time because his territory was so vast. Ra was not a Goa'uld, we know from the story on Abydos, he was the last of his kind. He enslaved the Unas (first ones) by recruiting Goa'uld to serve him. He found Earth, enslaved humanity, controlled the population for his own fleet/army. While he had an abundance of fresh troops via Earth and other newer human colonies in his territory Ra remained the only malevolent god to not use Jaffa, probably because he didn't want future adult Goa'uld to access his advanced ship or weapons designs. He would have know about their memory given the Tok'ra (against Ra) resistance and had less reason to offer any of them special status.

[@BadwolfGamer]

What if Stargate and SG-1 are actually Parallel Universes?

[@Tizzy204]

That’s a good idea. It’s said for each choice we don’t make another universe is created. Had the goa’uld made different choices they may not have been a dying race like in the movie and became as powerful as the Gould from the TV Show.

[@michaelflett09]

They do mention in the show pointing out there is another colonel Jack O'Neil (Kurt Russell's Oneil had only one L) RDA emphasises two L's and that the OTHER O'Neal has no sense of humour. So its accepted by some that they are similar realities but seperate

[@mattqson122]

​@@michaelflett09 wow good catch I always wonder why he was always telling about the 2 L Kurt Russell ... Colonel Jonathan 'Jack' O'Neil Richard Dean Anderson ... Colonel Jack O'Neill

[@helpfulbob3844]

Simpler solution Ra infested an asgard and uses a personal hologram to disguise himself. The chamber and the bomb disrupt it. Lantern hung.

[@MotorPotor56]

"A Serpent guard, a Horus guard and a Setesh guard meet on a neutral planet. It is a tense moment. The Serpent guard's eyes glow. The Horus guard's beak glistens. The Setesh guard's nose...drips."

[@pudlordtynan919]

I like the worms' design. They always made me gag. And it fit with the TV Goa'uld being parasitic. Ra was cool and his bodyguards always had the cooler helmets with their increased articulation

[@michaellewis1545]

Great video. I enjoy the t.v. show mainly because that is what I grew up on. Also I do like how the Goul'ad were fleshed out. It help make the Staregate universe feel more lived in. Having the Universe feel lived in is one of my standards on weather I find a Scfi show enjoyable.

[@irontemplar6222]

I think stargate biggest "problem" was how they kind of wrote them selves into a corner early on with the goauld, but they fixed it as easy as they could have as time went on, and they had to broaden the scope of the universe.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@Trehlas indeed.

[@johnpotts8308]

I liked Atlantis best in the first Season, when they were completely isolated and had to survive with what resources they had available. They rather threw out that premise in its S1 Finale when Atlantis was no longer "completely cut off from Earth" in favour of "a rather long commute from Earth".

[@Dragontrumpetare]

Maybe Ra was the very last Furling tzken over by a Goaul'd? lol

[@arivaldhagel2394]

Or the way to immortality was to get infected with Goaul'd (which were meant to be able to heal most of diseases a body may have)?

[@dedrickhowell805]

Spot on, the so called System Lords from SG1 were comically cheezy and outright goofy compared to the StarGate film antagonist. This was both due to relative casting quality and also because the mystique, wonder, and scariness of the original RA was the result of his true origin remaining vague and largely left to the imagination of the audience.

[@Sword-Breaker]

I think SG1 stands as a supreme example of retcon done to the benefit of a franchise. While the lovecraftian RA is decidedly well executed, the Goa'Ould body horror aspect, not only lent itself well to the budget limitations of a TV show, but presented the writers with a plethora of options to keep things interesting. I would say though, that I could wish they'd done a bit more fleshing out of Ra's story in the TV series, perhaps giving us more lore on why he was such a badass.

[@heesingsia4634]

I like the goa'uld being snakes. While it was the Egyptian part of the show that got me liking the show initially, I did enjoy them moving away from that gradually.

[@fgdj2000]

Fun fact: Dean Devlin revealed in an interview on Gateworld that as they shot it Ra was actually a human who served the Roswellian aliens and was kind of their pet slave master. However while editing, they realized he was a bit week as a villain and so they distorted the voice and added the glowing eyes and changed it so that he actually was the alien. Apparently, Jaye Davidson, who was very anxious about his performance, came to Dean Devlin after the screening and was relieved, saying they "fixed it".

[@micronoid]

One thing that bugged me about the Goa'uld were some of the inconsistencys about them. Like for example they were never able to keep any sort of consistency on how physically strong they were, sometimes they were superhuman others they easily taken down by a human. Then theres the hand device, in the episode the Nox Apophis it was like a personal force you just activated. Then in a later episode Baal was shot dead because he wasn't holding down on the button.

[@TonksMoriarty]

Maybe it's because I saw SG-1 first, but I didn't get any of this Lovecraftian vibe from Ra. He was just this alien that possessed people, and took advantage of primitive peoples. In my mind, in isolation, the form of possession that Ra uses in the film seems very much akin to Anubis possessing people in the show. I think the show made the very wise choice to play up the theatrics of the Goa'uld, where the continued use of the Sarcophagi & these aliens playing these characters for so long that they've pretty much lost who they are. This is even acknowledged in the first episode when Jackson says "It's the Book of the Dead, they're living it", the Goa'uld are a pantomime, a show, and this extends to a lot of their tech "this is a weapon of fear" vs the Tau'ri's "this is a weapon of war" stuff brought up in one episode. Another example is when the "saner" Goa'uld later in the series drop this charade all together with Ba'al & Neris often dropping their booming voices.

[@garypalmer997]

A little correction. The alien didn't take on the guise of the Egyptian god but brought the the Egyptian mythos to earth. Also the show sg-1 implies the vast majority of earths religion and gods are literally alien in there origin.

[@thatguybrody4819]

i feel like the movie had more of a short term ending that would have mads the show a hell of a lot more complicated and harder to make and continue so they came up with a solution in SG1 that made me satisfied. and i do like the theory that it was an Asgard that had a symbiote.

[@LeoH3L1]

That "Grey" is clearly an old Asgard infected with a Symbiote.

[@2bituser569]

One question that went unresolved was how Apops redialed Chulak During Cotgs pilot. You clearly see a deactivated gate behind him in one clip. Jaffe were preoccupied with fighting US military to spin the gate. Sgu might explain redialing back quickly if apops had a remote dialer like sgu crew did when dhds weren’t present.

[@Manospondylus]

Jesus those movie guards helmets were so damn cool. Still are.

[@TheKrstff]

SG1 had fantastic villains. Each one was fun and unique.

[@Hennessey1979]

I've enjoyed Stargate SG-1 many times over thank you for the video

[@johnwang9914]

I remember being disappointed with the discontinuities with the movie when the tv series first aired but the series effectively built upon their fragments of the lore through multiple episodes so it's what I favour now.

[@victorselve8349]

I prefer the SG1 Goa'uld, While the the mysterious alien might work well for the movie, in a show, especially as long running as SG1, you need progress and this progress almost certainly has to come at the expenses of loosing some of the unknown factor. With that in mind the SG1 Goa'ulds provided a faction that worked well even when mostly out in the open and while I think that some more diversity between the different system lords would have made them even better, keeping them unknown for so many season just wouldn't have been tenable. My main Goa'uld have to be Baal (all of them) followed by Anubis, as more secondary Goa'ulds Nero is best and You is also interesting. Also disclaimer by the time I watched the movie I had seen most of SG1 so bias probably.

[@probablynotmyname8521]

You should do a series on the major “threats” in various scifi shows, for example the replicators, the borg, q and so on and how they compare.

[@Knux999]

Great stuff. This is the first of your Lore videos I’ve watched (Due to wanting to avoid spoilers before), and I really like the format. It gives a great overview without being hugely ott with detail. 👌. As for my opinion on which villains I prefer.. I think Stargate had a habit of ‘humanising’ it’s villains. This is true of the Goa’uld, Replicators and Maybourne. (The only real exception being Kinsey, who I believe to be SG1’s best villain). When Atlantis was over, I noted a lot of people referring to Todd the Wraith as ‘The Lord Yu’ of Atlantis. I think the idea was that Yu was in some ways sympathetic to Earth, but I never really felt that watching the show, and just felt he was apathetic to them. Todd was a much better anti-hero, and because of the same mystery you describe with Ra, it became nearly impossible to work out his motive, which I think made him the best Villain in the Stargate Franchise. Keep up the great analysis :-)

[@steveo6016]

I loved SG-1 and knew the plot holes were there, but loved the series anyway. Must have been Richard Dean Anderson’s hair that bewitched me 😂

[@colehalford1893]

First I have to say Sir I hope your movie does well. I’ve studied almost every aspect of filmmaking and theater, and have learned how severe some critiques are. “Never Give Up, Never Surrender!” (Galaxy Quest) Stargate the movie was the only science-fiction film me, my mom, and my dad all agreed upon watching together when I was younger. I too agree that the movie is way better in the portrayal of the villain/alien overlord, then the television show. I too am also a fan of Stargate SG-1. I own it on DVD, along with the 2 spinoffs and the two additional movies. Again, good luck Sir. 👍

[@Penryn87]

I think Ra as the ‘god’ or master of the Goa’uld, but also a separate species, would have been good for continuity. It would also leave a mystery for what exactly Ra was as a plot for the show to explore. Ra being expanded upon as the master of the goa’uld, using them as administrators of his empire, who also provided them with their technology.. With their god gone, they could fit into their role as the baddy of the week making a mess of things.

[@chrisbingley]

The movie was a space opera, using soft science to create a storyline that would keep people in their seats for a couple of hours. SG-1 was a hard sci-fi show, using known science where possible that was designed to keep the viewers coming back each week. Atlantis then beat them up for their lunch money.

[@darthsonic4135]

>SG-1. >Hard Sci-Fi. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

[@wagne86]

I'm a huge fan of SG1 but I completely agree with you on the differences between RA and the SG1 Go'uld. There was definitely a missed opportunity to carry on some of the themes and mystery of the 94 film.

[@f1nger605]

I think a lot of this just boils down to personal taste. My favorite sci-fi series is Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, so I love the lofty soap opera that the Goa'uld lend themselves to. I also love how the show consistently depicts technological advancement as the vehicle for a civilization's downfall. I.e. advanced civilizations in the show tend to think they can solve every problem with a bigger gun, thus leaving them vulnerable to a so-called "primitive" civilization that happens to be more resourceful or better at thinking tactically. The idea of the System Lords as an "advanced", but still feudal power structure that keeps its subjects unedicated, thereby setting themselves up to be out-maneuvered by more crafty underdogs, works really well for me. The only time they really got "old" was after Apophus died the second time, and that immediately led into Anubis. The show is good enough at exploring different aspects of their power structure and individual personalities that it still keeps me entertained across several seasons.

[@artembentsionov]

Also, in the movie, the Jaffa (not named until the series) were treated as lesser gods and always appeared with their helmets on to the Abydonians. Jack specifically kills one and then removes his helmet just to show that they’re not gods, and the Abydonians are shocked. In the show, the Jaffa are understood by everyone to be combat thralls, the slave armies of the Goa’uld, not lesser gods.

[@FireflyFlynn]

Definitely appreciate the mystery and horror elements from the movie more than the ‘need to explain everything’ present in the SG-1 series. Linking this topic to the question you answered in the end, having read through the Expanse books up to the current release, I think that series retains a quality that the Sci-Fi Channel now Amazon streaming should strive to keep; if a creator dares to do so, they can still explain root causes and the nature of threats while retaining the monstrosity and potential horror present upon the viewers first contact. What the writer/creator needs to avoid is the temptation to overlay human qualities on what is an alien purpose.

[@FireflyFlynn]

And I appreciate the work you’re doing. Big fan of the coverage you continue to make of B5 especially.

[@jeghaterdegforfaen]

I saw SG-1 and Atlantis before I saw the original movie. The impression I got from the movie was that the evil alien was never intended to a parasitic snake, as such the TV show has deviated greatly from the source material, almost to the point where it should be considered it's own IP.

[@laurahealy2163]

I personally thought they had a great opportunity by just taking the "Grey" host of "RA" and turning him into a symbiote, which made for some interesting viewing since they took that and introduced the Jaffa-- who were alive as armies for the Goa'uls and as carriers for their young. But then they denigrated that whole thing by downgrading the power of the Goa'uld's. "Technobabble" -- a word which should be an anathema for a show like "Stargate SG-1", sadly was pushed to the forefront and Major/Lt. Col./Colonel Carter just figured out all the mysteries of the Goa'uld. By the middle of Season 7, I turned it off, tuning in just to see the conclusion of the Anubis arc.

[@laurahealy2163]

The unfortunate thing was we never got to see that level of Goa'uld that "RA" was. Ra learned enough in "reading" Dr. Jackon's textbooks to know the human race had harnessed the power of the atom. One, that was fairly impressive right there-- Ra read his textbook at least well enough to "know" exactly what the military had brought with them. But, then in the TV version, everything worked on crystals? I don't think so! And everyone spoke English! Dr. Daniel Jackson was a Linguist, not an archaeologist. Now, if you wanted to say he added Egyptology to his skill set, because of his interest in the Great Pyramids, okay.

[@benwilliams3539]

The goauld were the best enemies in SG1. All that followed; replicators and Ori basically, had the same problem as the Borg in Startrek. They were just too strong, there were no interesting encounters, no battles where they pulled their allies together for a big show down, no where for anyone to be heroic. Every subsequent encounter with replicators, ori and borg just went : 'oh hey the 'insert enemy here' showed up, let's find a way to beam in and hack them/upload a virus. Every damn time. That's pretty much all they ever do against the borg, replicators they could never fight, and the Ori were the worst. So boring and to beat? Oh let's find their Ark and sap them of their power, a spiritual hack/virus pretty much. That's just such a boring way to deal with a long time enemy.

[@lastfreethinker6810]

Even if they left it an etheral kind of entity you would have to explain it some how. I like how they did it, treating it as non-adv civ trying to understand an advanced one. Then when a sufficiently technological one came along we began to understand it better until it was no longer something to fear, then comes along an actual etheral enemy.

[@BluMacaw]

I don't know how it was back in the days, but I'm watching stargate franchise for like almost 2 years now and no matter how much I love Atlantis, SG-1 will always feel better for me, but only to the point in which O'Neill was promoted to general and then just few episodes.

[@rudolphantler6309]

Even though I like the SG-1 retcons - or more like retroactive explanations - my favorite is indeed Ra! Artsiness beats simple ego anyday. Oh and his previous host wasn't just a simple Asgardian, but an older lineage less devolved precursor. It was either waaay too old by the point of the movie's intro, or was inherently an imperfect host. The whole last of his own race aspect might have been either direct misinformation from Ra himself, or bad interpretation of his minions. The presence of Anubis and Horus in the movie isn't actually the real individuals, but I always believed that Ra could control the minds of other symbiotes and make them believe who they aren't thus elevating himself to a sort of god of gods position by ruling over other "gods". Instead of the Jaffa theory. Also when I was little, I thought Horus and Anubis were just captured soldiers that remained close to the pyramid. Possessed and brainwashed. Although it is worth noting that Apophis had at least as much character development as Ra. Sokar was set up to be epic, honestly, but the character just didn't have as much charisma. And Baal was interesting. A 'what if a goa'uld was a James Bond type' character. Anubis was kinda confusing in many ways and I seemed to have missed his humanoid physical appearance.

[@pocketheart1450]

According to expanded material, Ra previously infested an Asgard named Famrir, which is who we see glimpses of in the original movie.

[@Maelum_]

ah, the rpg material. I like using thr rpg when the show or books on't fill in certain stuff. In one of the books, it's hinted that the alien host was not connected to the Alliance (which the asgard were part of) and was in fact a different race entirely. The books also say that by using that alien's tech, some Ancient stuff and just being in that host for a long time, it affected ra in a weird way and he somehow put a piece of himself into a network of planets as a kind of energy lifeform (a very rough form of Ascension, which he might have been trying to fully do at the end of the movie with his main self when he noticed the bomb was ringed onto his ships, explaining the glowing) (part of this was me connecting details we see in the movie and bits of info from said book)

[@Astravega81]

Re watch the movie. There is a scene with O'Neill where he unlocks a door and we get to see a Goa'uld corpse.

[@mattwho81]

Here's what bugged me: the Jaffa all have larval Gould in their bellies, usually going through three or four in an admitted long lifetime. Given how many Jaffa we see there should be millions of Goulds, yet we only see a dozen System Lords each with a few thousand underlords. So i reckon after taking a host most Gould go to some place, maybe running mines or working in their versions of factories and shipyards. Competition is fierce and they kill each other off in droves, only a few survive long enough to get the attention of their lords and earn a place commanding a small force for their respective System Lord.

[@edwin4846]

great video! hard to pick which is better sga or sg1 imo...

[@pattheman3686]

They DID actually explain "Movie" Ra's Purpose to the System Lords in the Series. Until the Movie it was well known that Ra was the most powerful System Lord. This is because he was the First System Lord. You have to remember thatin the movie thay said that the cover stones on the Stargaqte were close to 20 000 years old. Admittedly they changed this number by the end of season 8 where they had Ra ruling Earth as little as 2000 years ago. Now if we assume the Goa'uld WERE dying off then Ra came to Earth, Founf a feeble population of perhap (by that time frame) millions and took possession of a new host. Then he built up his power base by taking slaves to other planets to secure his empire. When he was sufficiently secure he let the others of his race have hosts as well but limited their slave population They in turn would populate their own territories and so the pattern would continue until 2000 years ago Earth rebelled and buried the Stargate. But still the System Lords were still in dominance. Then came O'niell & Jackson and removed Ra from power allowing Apophis to jump ahead for SG-1 to take over So thing ARE explained with but ONE exception. Ra's guards in the Movie. They were Anubis, Set, Hoprace, among others. Their names were in the credits. In fact I believe Anubus was the head of the Guard, the one most prone to violence or the one Jack killed withthe ring transporter.

[@shagohad3]

Before humans, the Gou'ald took Unas, which are rare, as hosts. So when they found Earth, it was like a treasure trove.

[@oliviamoore3426]

I watched the movie as a kid, I liked it. but I loved the tv show. Loved the humor and stories.

[@wolfgang8391]

I think their is a middle ground that can be reached between serpent parasites and Lovecraft tech

[@DavidWMiller]

They didn't retcon the "Ra was part of a dying race" bit, the whole idea was that that was their status before ever finding Earth and humans. The fact that there are many now (not that dozens is many) doesn't contradict that, they became prosperous after that, having found plentiful hosts and slaves.

[@johnmiller4859]

I had just the opposite reaction to the reveal of Ra as a Gray. I didn't like it and felt like it was too easy, but I was 32 at the time and had been watching and reading science fiction since Star Trek was on NBC. I saw Forbidden Planet on a Saturday afternoon matinee and had nightmares about the "Creature from the Id". So maybe I was jaundiced when I saw it.

[@xiz0808]

while i would agree that Ra was all mysterious and enigmatic, i would argue that the main SG1 Goa'uld in the show where equally as mysterious when first introduced, we just lived with them longer, Anubis was teased for like 10 episodes before you even learned his name another 5 before he was even on screen and then a whole season before his full story and the reason for him being half ascended where revealed. Ra was revealed through Daniels exposition and then actually didn't have much character at all really other than straight bad guy, still loved both the movie and the show

[@axepagode33626]

The reconning of the movie was necessary. The idea of the gate going other places and connecting to other races, beings is a fantastic idea. Something that SG-1did very well. For a while, they even attempted to make communication between the different cultures a problem. Eventually that got old and now everyone in the Universe speaks English. 1. Making Ra a parasite vs using technology to jump bodies really doesn't matter 2. Spreading the different cultures of Earth all over the galaxy was a great idea. I wish they would have done more 3. Keeping Earth technology that same as our current tech was great way to set a baseline and watch us grow. 4. Making us earn every inch as we moved forward was great idea as well.

[@NinjaFlibble]

They also changed the name of Jack's son between the movie and series. When Jack is first introduced, the camera pans over an award saying "Tyler O'Neill" and in the series, his son's name is Charlie. Personally, I like the tv series a bit better, and I love Atlantis (granted, they suffer from a lack of Ba'al and Jonas ;) )

[@Maverick8t88]

Stargate is one of the best movies of all time. Easily awarded a spot in my personal top ten. I was understandably hugely excited when SG1 was announced. I watched the pilot with growing disgust at the many retcons you mentioned. When Shauri was taken I was done. I literally only swallowed the bile to finish SG1 last year. Never messed with Atlantis and whatever the third spinoff was called. I consider the series unrelated to the movie. Personally, I felt that the novels handled the post movie premise far better with Hathor and the rest of the Egyptian Pantheon being the extremely beautiful and talented normal humans who had been taken, brainwashed, and elevated by Ra and threatening total destruction of Earth, a Daniel who is caught between two worlds and struggling to find his place and bridge the cultural gap with his new bride, and human corporate greed endangering the goodwill and relationship with the Abydos native population. Think I read the trilogy through at least 5 times before foolishly loaning them to someone who forgot to return them before moving out of state.

[@Curien247]

The Lovecraftian horror was always appreciated but you should do a video on SG-Atlantis and Universe.

[@qliphalpuzzle5453]

Curien247 yeah Atlantis was great

[@ThatElfNerd]

While I agree with you on the Goa'uld being a missed opportunity for potential greatness, I do like a lot of lore developing that was done to their slave planets. A lot of the stories revolving around Jaffa culture, and how they eventually rose up against their oppressors is honestly handled very well. In terms of the Goa'uld being replaced by the Ori, I understood from a creative point why they did that. At this point, SG-1, and by extension, Earth had finally gotten some powerful enough defenses that they'd eventually defeat the System Lords entirely. And one of the most difficult tasks of any show or movie is to make sure that the next big villain stands out and is overall intimidating. The Ori were very much an intimidating, and seemingly undefeatable foe. Not only because they had the technology, they commanded an incredible ability to gain followers and supporters by either using abilities similar to magic, or by using and twisting philosophy. I do agree though that Stargate Atlantis is better than SG-1. The characters, the setting, the Villains. I enjoyed that series a lot, and often feel like re-watching it now and again.

[@jamieolberding7731]

The Goa'uld ships such as the iconic Death Glider fighters, Ra's Cheops class Pyramid ship and the Ha'Tak class mothership are great ships.

[@RockBoss313313]

Someone need to bring back the TV show dark matter it was really good

[@adamsagehorn3520]

Agreed. Also I think if you did a video on the rise and fall of the SYFY channel would be cool.

[@RowanJColeman]

Never thought of that, will make a note of it :)

[@TheStevedie]

My all time favorite Sci Fi show.

[@markkesseler8891]

I was an adult when I saw the movie (at the theater). Stumbled upon SG-1 in the middle of its first season. Fell in love with it. I much prefer the series over the movie. I also liked Atlantis. Universe was a great idea that was poorly executed.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Universe dragged too much. You have to get people involved quickly to keep rating up or you're done these days. Nobody has patience anymore.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

@@Trehlas I know this in my head but I don't feel this in my bones. :)

[@dickbahls9012]

I usually just let the SG-1 lore of the Goa'uld win out in my headcanon. Greatest sci-fi villains ever. I feel they took the best elements of the Ra character and adapted it successfully for the needs of a long-running series in need of an overarching villain. But then, I suppose I don't have a nostalgia bias, or my bias is toward SG-1; the movie always seems like a distant memory even though I have rewatched it since its release.