How the Gracie brothers diverged from Kodokan Judo

This video is a discussion concerning the Gracie brothers, and how they took a different path from Kodokan Judo.
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[@Chadi]

Valente brothers TV channel: youtube.com/@ValenteBrothersTV

[@jaylove7391]

Greetings from Colombia!!! I started training Judo at the age of four. I’m now 47 years old. I have traveled to Brazil and trained BJJ. I held my own with many of the high level BJJ black belts. I respect BJJ but I don’t think it’s necessary to train both unless it’s something you want. My Sensei trained in Japan for many years. We world train newaza long periods of time. I have also lived in California for a few years. There were many BJJ academies in California, and totally outnumbered Judo dojo’s. Judo dojo’s and BJJ academies training sessions are typically two hours a day. That’s not enough time to instruct newaza or tachiwaza. Most Americans also work and they don’t have the time to put into training. This is why many people combined judo and bjj. But growing in South America judo was our life. We trained fours a day and we were required to our studies. Of course bjj has evolved with more ground techniques. However, in my opinion bjj is simply judo without the throws. I appreciate Chadi he’s a passionate Judoka. He wants judo to receive its rightful recognition for ground work. Even my old Sensei felt the Gracies didn’t give the Japanese credit.

[@PiceaSitchensis]

I say just train it all! Submission grappling, judo, BJJ, catch wrestling, Japanese JJ, etc.

[@jrgomez]

Sambo. Don't forget Sambo.

[@lycanthropegaming3432]

@@jrgomez Exactly

[@user-wb7nv9ht1g]

Aikido, never forget

[@asengeorgiev7848]

I concur. And don't forget Tai Chi and Shuai Jiao, if you get a chance to meet a serious practitioner (big if).

[@PiceaSitchensis]

@@asengeorgiev7848 Yeah!

[@prvtthd401]

So if I understand correctly: 1. Old bjj and old judo were very similar in curriculum and randori rules. 2. Match rules for both judo and bjj USED to be without ippon. Which makes sense because judo was based on real fighting. In fighting there were no rules such as ippon and mate. 3. So when the standardized match rules were first developed the only way to end a match was when someone gave up. This caused a scew in skillset that favored newaza, because it was much harder to make someone give up by throwing. 4. To balance the skillset for students, Kano Jigoro implemented rules as ippon and mate so newaza and tachiwaza would be trained more in balance. 5. Brazilian camp was not aware of these new rules. Communication was harder back then, so they continued training under the old rules for a while 6. When finally Japanese representatives had a talk with the Brazilian representatives about the new rules, the Gracies basically felt bullied because this was not beneficial for them as their expertise was the ground. Bjj who had a competitive mindset thought it was a ploy + that they are being cheated by the Japanese to gain advantage over them during randori while in actuality it was an decision to improve education. 7. This caused a split since bjj felt like the Japanese were abusing their authority which is only based on origin and in their eyes not in the best interest of the art.

[@3halfshadows]

This has to do with rules for matches, not randori. In the old days there were no rules in matches besides what was agreed upon by the participants and even then the fights could degenerate. There were many factors over time that led to rule changes. There was lot of pressure from the Tokyo police to ban weapons and make these fights safer. And once Judo proved itself as the most effective jiujitsu there was probably less reason to have all out bouts.

[@prvtthd401]

@@3halfshadows thanks for the clarification

[@patrickschreiber5758]

There was Ippon, watch Kosen Judo they fight according the pre1925 rules there is Ippon. Ippon is realistic to self defence because Ippon symbolizes the death of the attacker (Samurai didn't mean to throw on the back but on the neck). But even when throwing on the back any atracker falling on the street under Ippon conditions will be off.

[@prvtthd401]

@@patrickschreiber5758 yeah, I was trying summarize the video. Therr are always two sides of a story and I wonder if what he said was true. Guess I got to be critical about that.

[@3halfshadows]

@@prvtthd401 Sport judo was another major factor, maybe even the biggest factor. That's what Kosen judo was. Judo was being taught in schools and obviously in schools they need to be safer and the rules and what was taught reflected that. Eventually sport judo took over all of judo. That was not Kano's intention and the art continues to suffer because of this. Brazilians were probably confused when sport judoka started showing up instead of the complete fighters that came previously.

[@felipemartinez1275]

BJJ = Basically Just Judo

[@EM-tx3ly]

Based

[@mauriclem75]

Actually a re-branding...

[@mauriclem75]

@@jitsapprentice4034 It is only a matter of rules. ADCC has its own rules and people interested in those type of rules will participate, focusing on the skills needed to have success there. For winning with this rule set you have to unbalance your game towards the skills enhanced in that particular game. But it is just another sport, not the definitive proof of the value of a martial art. From the point of view of self defense is totally unrealistic laying 10 minutes on the ground without anyone coming to kick your face. I love ADCC, but in the dojo I want to learn the complete martial art, not only the skill set needed to win a particular competition.

[@mauriclem75]

@@jitsapprentice4034 actually there was no question from my side. :) Anyway, I was talking about martial arts, self defense etc. and you mentioned another sport competitions. And, to be honest, I was bit surprised having you mentioning UFC 1, with one grappler only. If we want compare judo and bjj as sports, let's talk about Gracie vs Kimura, Gracie vs Yoshida too. Or Gracie vs Sakuraba and Makchachev vs Oliveira if we want to take in account also other grappling...sports. UFC 1 was a little bit biased, don't you think? kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5DXfp6NpLqBZ5o

[@mauriclem75]

@@jitsapprentice4034 I had my 4th vax shot 1 month ago, thanks for asking mate. I don't have an Xbox, but tomorrow is Christmas, who knows?! Maybe I'll receive it as a gift. I train judo in a dojo focused on traditional judo, founded by a japanese 9th Dan (elderly student of a Kano direct student) and I've started to cross train in bjj, because it's fun and I love training in ne waza for hours. But in a self defense situation I would try to stay on my feet as much as possibile. Happy Xmas my friend.

[@holidayrap]

Jigaro Kano is the Nikola Tesla of the martial arts. He has contributed immensely to the martial arts but gets not nearly the credit he deserves.

[@acquiesce100]

Spot on

[@markdaniels4178]

That's sad but true but I will put kano before hello Gracie with all due respect 🙏 but jagaro kano is the the father of modern day jiu-jitsu. Kano has a book that all jiu-jitsu from any format should read and study, it's called: MIND OVER MUSCLE

[@leftymariano1020]

Why bro? What did jigoro do for martial arts better than helio? Nothing...if anything he ruined judo by weeding out all of its most effective techniques...he got to the point where he wanted Judo to be looked at more as a sport bc he wanted the art that he felt he created to reach the Olympics. In the Olympics he felt ppl didn't wanna see alot of ground bc its boring to alot of people and in a way it is...ppl are more interested in seeing awesome throws. So he weeded out most of the ground techniques such as leg locks and wrist locks bc he said they were too dangerous then judokas that came into the art later on learned a watered down judo that only taught 10 percent ground and 90 percent standing...most fights always end up on the ground its facts so by him doing that he put judokas in danger of not being able to defend themselves properly if their taken down by someone much bigger...jigoro kano never went and fought in real cage matches or vale tudo fights to show how effective his art was, helio gracie did, him and his brothers and his sons knew that their art was superior got in that cage risking everything and brought a whole new evolution to martial arts...now a days, if u don't know jiu jitsu at all, ur gonna get ur ass so whooped in mma that u might as well just become a kick boxer lol it's even the core self defense method for the US army now. Not judo, gracie jiu jitsu...all thanks to helio gracie...jigoro kano can't even sniff helios jockstrap when it comes to who did more for mma...how tf did kano revolutionize mma more than helio gracie? I'll wait for a response this should be good...the hate on the gracies needs to stop...yeah they were arrogant and got skeletons in their closet, but nobody can deny what helio and his sons have done for martial arts

[@mauriclem75]

Great comparison! Kano, a true innovator indeed.

[@jjs3890]

@@leftymariano1020 Kano made jujitsu g-rated and safe for sport. And if he had not don’t that few today would likely not even know what jujutsu was. H Gracie took judo and it eventually became a focus on the ne-waza part. Using modern military systems is not a great means to prove anything. Back when the military were training in h2h combat, the techniques were aimed to break something as you throw them in their face and boot stomp their head (coincidence deftly much like samurai jujitsu) Congress mandated the removal of h2h combat and had it replaced with a non lethal sport fighting as they wanted a combat/ peace keeping force. So standing on n the static zone exchanging blows or rolling around on the ground trying to get superior positioning replaced the destroy them swiftly in whatever position your on methods. The Gracie’s never even learned jujitsu, they learned Judo and while they are obviously related, there are also huge differences. And jujitsu does not sport well without changing it to judo first.

[@llyr24]

Kano regarded newaza as “failed judo” - for him it was all about tachi-waza. Gracie’s biggest skill seems to be marketing.

[@dylan_krishna_777]

That why royce gracie won the first ufc because nobody was good in ground-game as them and now BJJ is the most populair martial art in the world!

[@igorlinhares9257]

@@dylan_krishna_777mais popular do mundo são as artes olímpicas. Jiu jitsu é basicamente judo

[@Spiritof_76]

If you don't participate in BJJ at a good school, you have no idea whether it's just marketing.

[@lambosnicko]

@@dylan_krishna_777sure…. Ken shamrock and dan severn were not ground fighters who also dominated their opponents.

[@dylan_krishna_777]

@@lambosnicko Wrestlers have strong mount game and cardio same with Judoka's. Staying on top is a big benefit on street or in Competition

[@nrxmonk]

Finally, an honest breakdown of BJJ and Judo split. Personally, I thought as well, that the Brazilians were keeping alive the old dojo storming and challenge matches that the first Judoka were involved during the late 19th and early 20th century.

[@prvtthd401]

The way he puts the first statement kind of scews the point of view to be fair. He compared the difference between old bjj and old judo to modern judo and old judo. Of course old bjj resembles old judo. They are from the same time period. There is no art that resembles their older equivalent. Yes old bjj kept alive the old judo spirit, but new bjj does not completely and neither does new judo. Making this comparison doesn't say anything at all actually. Of course old bjj will resemble old judo, that is the way they were thaught. Edit: I get that he wanted to shape context that old bjj was very close to old judo. I still agree with what he said

[@mauriclem75]

Actually, I see a lot of confusion in this video. Judo martial art is evaluated by the rules of Judo as a sport. Judo is much more than this. Moreover, Jigoro Kano was clear and didn't want too much emphasis on the ground because the ground is the last place were you want too be in real world self defense. The ground work must be quick and effettive, than you get up and go. Staying on the ground in real life defense is too risky, unless you are fighting in the middle of nowhere or you have friends watching your shoulders (e.g. like in most of Gracie family "real fights"). I love Bjj, it Is a great & fun sport and martial art, but it is modimensional. Judo too is lame in term of defense (only close distance) . Self defense scenarios are far more complex. So guys, let's just practice the art you love the most...

[@Seegie16]

@@prvtthd401 bjj is just kosen rules judo. Thats the form that maeda used to win his fights and the brazilians preserved and modified it.

[@tjl4688]

@@Seegie16 The Gracies never learned Kosen Judo. Kosen Judo does not permit striking.

[@Seegie16]

@@tjl4688 has it ever occurred to you that they could have added striking to it lol?

[@acquiesce100]

Chadi -- Cant wait to listen to this video in full.

[@user-un4uy7hr6c]

日本では、ブラジリアン柔術が急速に普及している。 私の住む場所では、柔道よりブラジリアン柔術が学べる場所が多い。

[@badxradxandy]

This is great to hear, thank you for the update.

[@jasonpoilovs4903]

You have some of the best most informative videos on KZbin. I have learned a great deal about the history of our art Judo, BJJ, and grappling as a whole from your channel.

[@jasonpoilovs4903]

•oops, I’m a BJJ guy.

[@graciederangementsyndrome3669]

Another excellent video, Chadi

[@jitsapprentice4034]

UFC 1 answered all your questions keyboard grandmasters.

[@charlesghannoumlb2959]

The thing is nowadays we are getting back to thr essence and true spirit of martial arts coz of higher education in martial arts, and one of the biggest examples is chadi, he is training martial arts getting to know and tryin to study true martial arts, getting deeper into this world and seeking more knowledge and i think every practitioner should follow his lead and we will all be better humans and martial artists, my personal opinion not a fact but this is the way i see it

[@wengel21]

This is awesome! Do you think youll ever release these interviews in a long format to listen to?

[@tettsubushi]

What always intrigued me is that Kano was 21 when he “founded” judo (1882) and opened a school after only studying about 4 years. I believe he was still a “pupil” under various Jiu Jitsu instructors while he ran the judo dojo. Today that would be blasphemous to create a style, name it and open a school with that resume. He also recruited many jiu jitsu monsters as judo reps. I believe “catch” had about a 10 year head start and imagine that these two amazing arts evolved simultaneously as their respective devotees discovered the many creative, beautiful ways to twist, throw, crank and choke the human body. We honor those who came and mastered before us and embrace the evolution, development and personal interpretations going forward. Combat sport is changing exponentially… but we must also recognize and respect the serious nature of self defense and self preservation. Let’s see what’s to come over the next 100 years! 🙏👊.

[@danielmontilla1197]

Two expressions of the same art developed in divergent ways, both excellent in their focus areas, both A tier for combat. You're good with one or the other, better with the two. Let's not fight BJJ apologetics with Judo superiority complex.

[@tonytomahawk5160]

Really? In my government contract arena that also does security contracts BJJ never made the cut. We consider it a little more than a marketing scam for the ignorant. I don't have an opinion on this but I can see why the staff says that even from this interview. Real combat scenarios rolling on the ground is where you're killed. Even a junkie knows rolling around on the ground is where they are stabbed. Trying to elevate the idea of rolling on the ground is only proof one never had a real fight. I was a wrestler and I wasn't dumb enough to believe that all fights end on the ground because I have been in real self defense fights. Throws chokes breaks and dislocation great. Even my more in depth training was how to neutralize the threat and gtf back up.

[@Spiritof_76]

@@tonytomahawk5160 The self defense taught in Gracie jiu-jitsu is not "rolling around on the ground." The sport of BJJ is.

[@tonytomahawk5160]

@@Spiritof_76 The self defense taught was tested and rejected by the BRAZILIAN military for the reasons I've already stated. Prove them wrong. Hell show me a video of BJJ dealing with two attackers which is the minimum criteria for this subject. You can't become it's never happened. But anyone can find proof that Judo Hapkido Dumog Shuai Jiao Hell even fucking Aikido Has been used in real self defense scenarios and dealt with two attackers. Plus has been used by military and law enforcement of worth. But not BJJ This isn't debatable and it never was.

[@Spiritof_76]

@@tonytomahawk5160 There are plenty of bjj instructors who have shown how they deal with multiple attackers. A military policeman showed how he decided to fight Leandro Lo, who would have creamed him, by shooting him in a nightclub. Sport bjj guys train for competition and fun, but cross train with striking if they want to do mma or learn to fight. The martial arts you listed would be dangerously over-confident and oft-times inept dealing with multiple attackers. Besides, the military uses weapons and hand-to-hand is almost non-existent.

[@tonytomahawk5160]

@@Spiritof_76 Then show me one. You act like you know more than the Brazil military and someone like me. Don't waste my time pretending when I know reality doesn't support your position.

[@kevingreenwald3217]

I love this interview.

[@WayneManifesto]

End BJJ apologetics

[@darylfields]

We need the old school judo back the atemi waza, newaza and uke-waza

[@mauriclem75]

One thing is the sport, one the randori (no atemi), and finally one the judo teached as a martial art, with everything that goes with it. Fortunately there are still clubs where they teach complete judo. Only one actually where I live.

[@leoautuori1658]

Definitely feel bjj players need to accept Jigaro kano. As part of their lineage. He is right the split happened with the rules. both rule sets have their flaws. I think bjj undervalues the throw and overvalues the guard. Kano favored standing he said groundwork is no good with multiple attackers and it is dangerous if striking is involved. I think also that the way the guard slam is dealt with in bjj is not realistic and opens the game up to a lot more guard play than would normally happen. In judo if you get picked up you have to let go. Maybe this gentleman is right the Japanese didn’t want to fight them on the ground but it at least went both ways helio was the own 32 times in one match and still called it a draw. The Gracie’s couldn’t compete standing. So they changed the rules. Anyway fun subject thanks Chadi

[@jitsapprentice4034]

Most/ if not all schools have his portrait hanging on the wall.

[@tjl4688]

@@jitsapprentice4034 Not true. Most schools don't even know have pictures of Helio or Carlos, let alone Maeda or Kano.

[@jitsapprentice4034]

@@tjl4688 every single Gracie barra in the world does, Gracie university, alliance jiu jitsu and I could go on.

[@ctcm]

Hi Chadi. Thank you so much for the amazing content. I’m a karateka who started learning judo and recently started training BJJ. After experiencing jiu jitsu, I can say grappling is very unique. I practice with a wrestler and our professor incorporates wrestling and judo techniques in our standup game. I’m fortunate enough to spend some time doing self defense in our class and we start in standup. Some of the situations we do, don’t even involve going to the ground for a choke or a lock. Jiu jitsu under the right teacher is truly amazing! I feel compelled to ask you: have you started training jiu jitsu or has the idea crossed your mind? I ask because of the recent jiu jitsu heavy content. And I must add it is as excellent as usual. Thanks a lot!!!

[@JoseRodriguez-kg2ec]

judo had single and double leg take down judo had great ground work but chose to limit or get rid of technics to make a sport instead of sticking with the original intent to create a way of self defense with throws , pins and ground work that work .... I'm sure if kano seen the judo of today he be shock

[@MrBluemanworld]

"The ground is where the match is decided", if you don't get thrown on the street in the concrete and don't know Ukemi Waza. Most fights I would argue end standing up, not on the floor. And it's not to take anything away from Brazilian Jiujitsu. Also, you see Jigoro Kano in the 1930 Olympics. Kano wanted to make Judo an Olympic Sport and Martial Art, which Kyuzo Mifune succeeded in the 1960s in accomplishing.

[@jjs3890]

There was an actual study done and it’s on KZbin someplace. The “most street fights go to the ground” is completely false. It’s actually more like 30% and only 10% if we’re talking about going to the ground on purpose. The Gracie’s took an old LAPD article stating that 90% of POLICE ARREST tend to end up in a ground struggle. Most street fights end with strikes kicking.

[@Spiritof_76]

"Most fights I would argue end standing up, not on the floor." It depends on who is fighting and how serious they are about continuing to fight. Some people get punched and decide they've had enough. Others don't stop until they get knocked down and can't get up. Others consider that if it goes to the floor that's just part of the bigger scenario. A judoka or wrestler can put the fight on the floor whether you want it there or not. BJJ is meant to win even if it goes to the floor, and how to avoid a situation where you lose just because it does.

[@PhilosophyofArtandScience]

where is the long version of this! such a powerful discussion.

[@__gma14255]

Good and important conversation. Will you be releasing more of your conversation with Professor Pedro Valente?

[@santiagocastro3373]

Consideren que los hermanos Gracie no compitieron precisamente en igualdad de condiciones, sino imponiendo reglas que les favorecieran, y ante sus derrotas, siempre fueron malos perdedores. Hay claros ejemplos: uno de ellos es la lucha entre Yoshida y Gracie; lo mismo pasó con Sakuraba.

[@danielmontilla1197]

Es cierto, y no se puede hacer a un lado el hecho de que el mercadeo jugó un papel enorme en la popularización del BJJ. Pero, ¿y qué? ese mismo mercadeo nos dejó las MMA, que son tal vez la revolución más importante en la historia de las artes marciales modernas. El Judo institucionalizado se quedó atrás porque quiso, o porque le apostó a la ruta olímpica para el perjuicio de todos.

[@santiagocastro3373]

@@danielmontilla1197 Efectivamente, la mercantilización de las artes marciales, sobre todo a partir de los 90's contribuyó enormemente a su crecimiento, evolución y desarrollo, pero no considero que el judo se haya quedado atrás en esa evolución. Es cierto que el judo original difiere mucho de la competición actual, pero aún sujeto a las reglas olímpicas permanece en constante evolución: basta con ver los estilos de Europa Occidental y Europa del Este, Asia y Medio Oriente. Por otra parte, hay mucho judo dentro del octágono (Rousey, Harrison, Khabib, Lombard, Makhachev, Ishii) son algunos referentes). Por otra parte, el Bjj sólo desarrolló la lucha de suelo, y gran parte de su evolución actual ha sido a partir de la integración de las técnicas de proyección de Judo y Wrestling.

[@sergiosapori]

but, my friend, you should know more and in a better way about what was the jiu jitsu in Brazil. Try to have a look about the street fights that the Gracies was involved. It wasn't competitons, it was real fights my friend.

[@Veritas-dq2hs]

@@sergiosapori irrelevant to his comment.

[@BoratfromKazakhstan]

Que reglas si no habian reglas mAs bien Royce se retiro cuando empezaron a pnerlas junto con categoria de pesos ...

[@jooyoungleephd]

Very interesting take. Quite a different one from Jose Cairus, who has written a dissertation about the history of the Gracie family.

[@retroghidora6767]

It makes a lot of sense that Helio was to some degree in line with Kano's intent as the Gracie family was heavily influenced by Maeda and other jiu-jitsu/judo instructors in Brazil. All men who would have been passing down the ideas and curriculum of the Kodokan through their own lens. Interestingly that old world war era US military judo video has a surprising amount of things in common with Helio's curriculum (especially from the book Gracie Academy). The hip throw, lunging side kick, a standing joint lock. It gives the impression that maybe there was a specific self defense curriculum that was being taught by those world traveling judo instructors in the early 1900s, maybe even one mandated by the Kodokan.

[@donaldduke2233]

He got one thing right. Today Gracie JuJitsu is closer to Kano JuJitsu than current Judo is to Kano JuJitsu. If you took a Gracie JuJitsu fighter, put him into a time machine and dropped him off at Kano Shihan's dojo he would fit right in. That couldn't happen to a practitioner of today's watered down pussyfied AAU sport Judo. Chadi, once again you have presented an outstanding and informative video. Thank you so much for the enormous amount of research you put into the martial arts for the benefit of those of us who watch and learn from your presentations.

[@ClwnJuNkY]

You wrote it before I did ! The man all right !

[@londonrhodes2429]

BJJ is currently going through the same thing ie the butt scoot. In 10-15 years BJJ will look very different.

[@JoeMcK10000000000000]

Kano Jujutsu literally doesn't exist btw. Many people in Japan and further afield still called it that because Jujutsu was the more known term, but since founding Judo, that was always its true name

[@prvtthd401]

He didn't say that. He said old BJJ used to resemble old Judo compared to new Judo. Which is not anything controversial or suprising. It is not even a fair comparison because time changes art. If you want to make an accurate comparison, you got to compare at least the arts from the same time period. The difference between old Judo and new Judo is about as different as 1. old BJJ and new BJJ 2. old Boxing and new Boxing 3. old Karate and new Karate. And because old BJJ was basically old Judo (until the split which he explained in the video) of course old BJJ will be closer to old Judo than new Judo to old Judo. Because they were the same, while new judo has evolved through time. This was the point he tried to illustrate. Whether new BJJ or new Judo is closer to old Judo is a different question which he did not address. In your case, if you are going to compare Gracie JiuJitsu to old Judo, then you also got to compare a Judo camp that follows the Kodokan curriculum instead of training strictly for IJF competition and compare that to old Judo. This is because both Gracie JiuJitsu and Kodokan tries to follow the spirit of the gentle art, while IJF and new BJJ (IBJJF) are sport oriented. But to give you credit, Gracie JiuJitsu is closer to starting era Judo, because starting era Judo had no Ippon. I also feel that Kodokan schools still don't practice leg takedowns as equally as the rest of the takedowns compared to Gracie JiuJitsu.

[@mauriclem75]

Bjj is similar to just a part of old Judo, the ground game, but misses most of its 67 throws...(i.e. you can use them in bjj, if you cross train in judo, but have you seen anybody teaching them? Not where I live, at least).

[@gailvalleymartialarts]

Hopefully you will post the full interview, and also the old interview from like a year or two ago

[@rustyshackleford735]

Good stuff

[@fardospoder7508]

Thanks to being introduced to it by Maeda, who also did catch wrestling. So it was kind of already altered.

[@fardospoder7508]

Also, adding to it, while yes submissions and ko’s are fine, but can’t a forceful throw do damage and possibly knock a guy out? Hitting a man with a planet anyone? Sorry, always been a big advocate of throwing and the advantages of a very good forceful throw to deal with someone

[@nrxmonk]

Essentially doing Gi and No-Gi.

[@fardospoder7508]

@@nrxmonk Yep, Maeda competed in catch using his judo/juijitsu skills and bringing the two arts together, essentially bringing no gi around through the Gracie’s truth

[@nrxmonk]

@@fardospoder7508 Maeda wasn't the only one. Miyake & Tani who were mentioned in the interview. But there was atleast dozens more who traveled the globe doing challenge matches with wrestlers. What's the Gracie's truth?

[@fardospoder7508]

@@nrxmonk Oh yea, definitely but Maeda is the main one that trained the Gracie’s. I know all about all the Judo guys that traveled the world challenging other styles. Really where mma started. Wish I had been around for all the grappling challenges

[@moonsdonut5188]

I really love this guy's!

[@patrickschreiber5758]

As a Judoka for more than 4 decades I believe Valente is right in most points. I would even claim that Valente Ju Jutsu is much closer to Kano/Kodokan Ju Jutsu than nowadays IJF even Kodokan Judo. But he is wrong in one point. Kano wasn't the biggest Fan of Ne Waza. For self defence reasons, because it is more secure to win by a clean throw than to grapple on the ground and even be exposed to a second or more attackers. On the other Hand Kano knew to much emphasize on Ne Waza would make competitions to tactical with players avoiding Tachi Waza by immidiately going on the ground. This was exactly what happened and caused the 1925 rule change by Kano. Nowadays BJJ didn't have this change (like in the Kosen Tournaments). So you can say BJJ and Kosen are the Judos Kano never wanted. Unfortunately modern IJF Judo would not be his dream either because the only emphasize on Competitions. But I believe He would have liked the Valente Method.

[@dylan_krishna_777]

Kosen Judo ❤🥋

[@BoratfromKazakhstan]

Let me tell you that you have the right person to answer this. Professor Pedro Valente is a great persona and jiu jitsu practitioner , if you are looking for a BJJ school and you have a Valente brothers school near you just go and register, don't even think about it too long

[@natebecker1381]

thanks

[@ClwnJuNkY]

I have the Machardo Jiu jitsu encyclopaeda this today shortens the storie with in and makes it awesome

[@jungleghostsurvival]

My Sensei was taught Kodokan Judo by Professor Toshitaka Yamauchi a direct student of Jaro Kano and taught by Professor Haruo Imamura

[@christophervelez1561]

Will you release this interview in long form?

[@ronanscreed]

I have a somewhat different take on the meaning of "a jujitsu match is decided by knockdown or submission". We're he says that means throws are just meant to get the fight to the ground, and things are decided there. I'd argue that throws are ALSO a means to knock out your opponent, and that not all submission has to be done with both players in the ground. This is where I believe there is a philosophy difference that leads modern BJJ to be so focused on ground techniques to the point where standing techniques and takedowns/throws have become lacking.

[@rodrigo.moreira]

There is a full version of this?

[@SoldierAndrew]

Gracies are constant salesmen and persistent marketeers. Always pitching a sales for their family business. Rest in peace Rufino Dos Santos, you're not forgotten.

[@gaztantxo]

Bjj is ju without Do. There are skills and fight but no ideal Philosophie

[@patrickschreiber5758]

Nowadays Judo also hasn't the Do. The so called Judo Values are at best watered down compared to Kanos Philosophy.

[@gaztantxo]

@@patrickschreiber5758 Maybe it depends on the teacher, but compared to bjj where any blue belt with 2 years of experience can teach, I think that judo teachers are usually highly qualified... But it always depends on the people of course. In my personal experience, my 8.Dan teacher, I was very lucky. I have practiced JuDO and Jiu Jitsu in three different countries and have never noticed any difference in the quality of judo principles. In bjj it varies a lot and above all there are people looking to be tough, Killers and not to improve as people or to basically learn something new. Finally, if we compare the 5 best active athletes in the two disciplines, we find very deep differences in terms of ethics and morality and I think this point is fundamental. Saludos!

[@elmugenofficial8499]

Chadi, have you ever trained at a Brazilian jiu-jitsu school yourself? Is there bjj in France?

[@outergod3961]

He does train in both

[@scarred10]

France was the first European country to have Bjj in 1995.

[@MrBluemanworld]

If I can also add, there were several other big people in the Brazilian Jiutjtsu's history which developed the art. And it is only through the sportive adaptation of both arts that the level of skill sets have reached the highest level. Were it to stay only in Kodokan Jiujtsu, the fluidity and focus and system of techniques would not have have expanded so much in 100 years. Although I love the art of Judo more, the sport of both arts is also absolutely essential. Brazilian Jiujitsu has given us the art without the gi. Every aspect is a gift. Unfortunately, the art of Judo has not survived overall, but it should.

[@3halfshadows]

Interesting comparing modern sports judo with gracie bjj and old school judo. Sport has really hurt Judo.

[@keropnw3425]

If someone wanted Jujutsu/Judo matches to be decided by knockout or by submission and keep the integrity of the art for self defense, not turning it into an unrealistic newaza game, you would have to do all Judo competition on wood floor or dirt, allow aiming to land on the opponent's head in throws and allow daki age, which would make competition extremely dangerous to the point of being against the principle of mutual benefit. If you fight on soft mats that's banning the actual effect of nage waza no different to banning submissions (Like if you were only allowed to get in the position to apply a lock or choke but not actually apply the move the match would never end by submission and no one would use them). Ippon rule with soft mats are for the protection of the fighters and preserving the effectiveness of Judo.

[@Johnnie5213]

❤️👍👍

[@Darkness8536]

Read "The Toughest Man Whomever Lived" by Nori Bunasawa. That will answer your questions. BJJ is Basically Just Judo. What Maeda did as a traveling fighter is what the Gracies did with the initial stage of UFC. But he did it over 100 years ago. Look at the Gracie Jiu Jitsu curriculum and the Kodokan Judo curriculum and it is the same. The Gracies reinvent the wheel.

[@gengotaku]

Cool video showing clearly that the differences between judo and BJJ are basically due to the rules. Personally I can’t watch BJJ matches because they are too long and a “mate” could be used to have people fighting again instead of stalling. judo, on the other hand can be decided with an ippon, but I have seen a lot of submission in recent tournaments. In my dojo we practice “newaza” as much as we practice “nagewaza”.Sometimes we even have BJJ people practicing with us. Once I had the opportunity to pratice BJJ and just felt it’s “judo without nagewaza” because people are eager to go to the ground and submit their opponent, but their pretty much the same art.

[@felipechaves1596]

I heard the newaza curriculum in BJJ is a lot more extensive though, much more techniques, or rather variations.

[@faresBtoush1990]

This a strange narrative (japanese being scared to go down with the gracies) he attributes to Helio when Kimura knocked Helio out with a throw and submitted him with a double wristlock(aka kimura)

[@ArtSesh]

The japanese had lost other matches before Kimura finally won.

[@scarred10]

Elite jap judoka were far better than the gracies on the ground but kimura was the only elite judoka they ever fought.

[@ArtSesh]

@@scarred10 yeah, the defeated ones were fake black belts and didn't count right? 😆

[@scarred10]

@@ArtSesh nope,they just werent champions as the gracies claimed.

[@rafat6]

sensei Pedro Valente e Robert Drysdale sao os maiores intelectuais do jiu jitsu mundial

[@EM-tx3ly]

We need a debate From Japanese and BJJ perspective

[@TonyPacenski]

What style of Japanese Jujutsu do you want to explored compared to Judo?

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

Material

[@fabfab2991]

Kodokan its totally superior than Gracie academy so far.

[@tecniko3769]

I run a Judo school in my city along with a friend of mine. We are surrounded by over 20+ (I am not kidding) BJJ schools and its very hard to compete. We are the only Judo school in the area. One of the BJJ schools have like 40+ kids per class and the same thing goes for adults its ridiculous. We barely have enough students to pay the rent and keeps the lights on. We make $0 money teaching Judo but we do it for the love of Judo. We can't compete with BJJ schools we are outnumbered. We do get some BJJ students every now and then but they just want to learn a throw or two and then they disappear back to BJJ land. I think MMA/UFC has done a good job glamorizing BJJ and diminishing other arts like Judo. Chael Sonnen did a video trashing Judo a while back claiming wrestling and BJJ where superior arts.

[@Redneck_Wizard]

Awesome of you providing Judo training in your area and if anyone tries to claim Judo isn't good for mma point them to Fedor Emelianenko, the best mma fighter of all time who easily destroyed Chael Sonnen in a Bellator match and who Chael says is the goat.

I am Judoka ❤

[@ajherring92]

I come from a Jujitsu background, but our school seems to keep it pretty old school in that we usually start each class with nage waza before practicing any ne waza, we have a dedicated class for leg locks and techniques as well so that we don't ignore the legs either. I've trained at other schools that focused more heavily on the ground work but I prefer it this way, because you need to get the fight to the ground and I don't like to pull guard. I don't see much difference between Judo, BJJ and Jujutsu overall, they're all essentially the same things packaged a little bit differently.

[@dylan_krishna_777]

Japanse jūjutsu is great man and i think is a great martial art to start with because you have already a great advantage then the average BJJ practitioners ( punches, kicks, blocks, fall breaking, wrist locks, trows and ground fighting) and what you said is true : BJJ-Judo are also a form of jūjutsu but in a different package and ruleset 🥋🙏⛩

[@josephmoreau9615]

I agree that these are all different aspects of the same art.

[@k0smonauta372]

Obrigado pelas legendas em português

[@dylan_krishna_777]

Jigoro Kano made Judo very great in the world but also watered down the martial art with all the rules.

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

Family

[@user-jf4lm4yy3k]

я - тренер по дзюдо и самбо и я четко разделяю бросок и тейкдаун. Бросок - это ударная техника, где ударной поверхностью выступает не кулак, ступня, колено, локоть или голова Тори, а поверхность на которую бросают. Соответственно урон от удара об поверхность будет зависить от: 1) степени твердости и остроты поверхности, 2) амплитуды и скорости броска, 3) чем Уке упадет (головой, попой, спиной, плечем....). Согласен, что оценка балов за броски в дзюдо не соответствуют правилам самообороны, их нужно менять, а еще я бы сделал татами и дзюдогу с электронными датчиками, которые определяли бы силу удара тела об поверхность татами с автоматическим определением баллов. А вот партер в моем понимании - это то, что должно оканчивать неудачный (неполучившийся) бросок или когда Уке затянул тебя в партер. К самбишену я отношусь скептически ибо он хорошь лишь в случае поединка, такое бывает в жизни, но далеко не часто. Обычно даже в случае поединка найдется кто-то, кто поможет одному из борящихся. При таком понимании боя эфективней даже борьба сумо чем бразильское джиу-джитцу. Хотя время от времени проведение сабмишенов полезны для всех борцов

[@senecaknowsbest8380]

Too much money involved in all of this to get complete honesty from anybody from a popular, profitable system like BJJ or Kodokan Judo or any of the worldwide aikido or karate federations

[@WayneManifesto]

They didn't, it was all marketing.

[@santiagocastro3373]

Exactamente! Ni siquiera existe comparación entre el maestro J. Kano y Helio Gracie. Los Gracie sólo vendieron el bjj

[@lucas953]

Jiu-jitsu has already proven so many times its superiority, judo is dead sadly its just a sport nowadays, look at adcc, how many judo representants you see on the top? Wrestling + Ne waza (jj), that's the real deal.

[@WayneManifesto]

And every technique they use was from Judo and taught to Brazil by Judo

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

Calligraphy is correct

[@chrishov8890]

So ,,, where why when the ego let's go and conscious appears in respect to laws of creation and your life through your journey, the oneness appears. A coalitions between two energies like magnets or tantra positive and negative the appears thru heart and mind with a little sweat in practice understanding respect and love in one another. So practice and walk lightly footed to recognize the garden you live in.

[@perryBJJ]

Happily, things are changing because there are a number of solid, factually based books out there on BJJ history, such as those by Robert Drysdale & Roberto Pedreira That's where to get proper info. A lot of misinformation and myth has been passed off as history over the years, by BJJ teachers who should know better.

[@donaldduke2233]

He's absolutely right. Gracie JuJitsu is Judo when it was called Kano JuJitsu. And Gracie JuJitsu is Kano JuJitsu with an emphasis on Ne Waza. Today's Judo schools rarely teach self defense because the instructors who taught the instructors at those dojos never learned Self Defense Judo. They learned tournament Judo. In America, AAU Judo. Watered down Judo. I have no love for the Gracie family. For several reasons. Like when several of them spent about 3 years in Brazilian prison because 3 or 4 of them jumped and beat a man with pipes because he had defeated a Gracie in a match. But facts are facts. If you want to see original Kano JuJitsu, go to a Gracie Dojo. That's where it's taught today.

[@prasantadebnath1827]

The innovative genius of the GRACIES lay in their extending and modifying the technique, training methodology, and strategy of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and Judo and CREATING a 👉NEW revolutionary martial art (BJJ) process.

[@scarred10]

Its not at all revolutionary, it is just judo applied to combat.

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

I leave y'all with those three post and replace the pen without martial arts

[@manuelmejia4481]

This is very disappointing .....kodokan judo is the best

[@natet.5738]

I was shocked to see that the beginning curriculum included 4 throws and 1 newaza technique. But this example also confuses me. If they practiced throws, why would it matter if one could score points with a throw? Like the Gracies, I don’t like how quick refs call “mate” and I absolutely hate turtling till it’s called. That is hiding one’s inability to fight on the ground and is why I teach my son never to do it.

[@Gauntlets]

In many a ways, I think a majority of 'em r indirect; "Sports has ruined [most of] the martial arts!" Yeah, 4 obvious reasons we have rules, but said rules have watered down a lot of what was supposed 2 b a dangerous art; in dis case we're speaking of judo an' jiu-jitsu, but it applies 2 da great majority of fighting arts! One Miyamoto Musashi said words of da effect of "We fight how we train, so why not train how an actual fight is?" I imagine most traditionalist saying "REEEEEEE" at dat particular quote and/or when most of their theories r disproven and/or disrespected... Often on channels, I've referenced dat if da technology were available now (Sword Art Online VR or Star Trek holodecks), we could practice every tech against a live, resisting [albeit fictitious] opponent and no life or limb is lost or damaged. Then we could do everything "illegal" in competitions an' such!

[@Alexander-rd7bi]

So, first Kodokan removed ground fight, then the grappling beneath the waist. what's next to be removed?

[@lucas953]

It's just a sport, and every technique unfavorable to the Japanese gets banned.

[@benkeating3053]

Lots of misinformation here. Kano's judo began with only ippon. And the only way to score ippon was with a perfect nagewaza. The Kyoto schools began the approach of winning thru Katame waza. Both these ideas predate the expanse of knowledge to foreigners.

[@Bobllebrayan]

90% of these stories that this family tells are fantasies created by them, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is incredible now in recent decades the Japanese have been beating these gracies their whole lives Kimura sakuraba

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

Now think evil and dancing

[@chateauduboylanuejols2513]

La famille Gracie ne respecte pas le judo, ni les japonais ni même MITSUYO MAEDA , merci pour tes vidéos utiles pour le grand JUDOOO !!

[@JohnWayne-me5ny]

Debt

[@chuckquebrantahueso8274]

Konse judo is bjj

[@lesjardinspartagesrakrouki1357]

LE JJB N'EST RIEN DU TOUT C'EST DU COPIÉ COLLÉ DE L'ANCIEN JUDO MERCI CHADI

[@naakaalastudio6655]

Judo = Basically Just Jujutsu (BJJ)watered down.

[@insidethevelvetglove3919]

There is a huge difference, BJJ is now evolving back to what it originally was. Takedowns, throws foot locks, all are been added back to it. Judo is still taking things away. Because BJJ is not an Olympic sport we can evolve holistically. Judo can't. It is regulated way too much. As said, BJJ is closer to the root and becoming closer. Not the fault of Judo, just the people in charge.

[@djignatin4043]

Judo is a better street defense. BJJ is better on the ground. Japanese Jitsu is good because they do weapons training.

[@felipemartinez1275]

This is mere BS, in a real fight you want to defeat your oponent as soon as possible, not to fight on the ground, and that's particularly true if we consider that in a real fight there's no mat to soften the fall and even more if there's more than one single oponent. So to say that the fight should be decided on the ground is simply not true. With a good throw, you can knock out your oponent easily. Tachi waza is the first and more desirable way to win, and only if it's strictly necessary ne-waza has to be used. What this guy is saying is simply one more dis-gracie.

[@dlebron007]

I agree. I learned judo as my first martial arts. I know that you execute a flip to take slam somebody on concrete floor they are not be in a good position and easy atemi target to take out. I never understood why BJJ...is has so much passion with wrestling on the ground. It is unfortunately subceptible to a knife attack. Other than that, BJJ is a sport.

[@lucas953]

Throws rarely end fights, few techniques have that possibility and if your opponent is drunk or high on drugs/ adrenaline he won't even fell the fall, know what will stop them? A good old choke! Get over it.

[@tjl4688]

@@dlebron007Every martial art is susceptible to a knife attack.

[@tonytomahawk5160]

Hilarious Trying to validate the lie of ground fighting because they only learned that aspect. Imagine accusing others of cheating when their claim to fame is cheating.