How the KelTec P17 Wins - 9mm versus the P17

[@AmbGun]

@GarandThumb test for 22 lethality at distance. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIjFdGqvl9h0sJY

[@larryhinze]

Federal Punch, Stinger or other SD ammo will be fine for 50 feet.

[@sammcclendon2607]

Shooting federal punch 22lr

[@J3R3MYDuncan]

It isn’t a sniper rifle…

[@AmbGun]

@@J3R3MYDuncan Few know this, but Carlos Hathcock used a Keltec P17 as a sniper rifle in Vietnam.

[@anonymousf454]

@@AmbGun Even fewer know that he drove a 2005 Candy Apple Blue Chevy Camaro during his tour of duty. It was jacked up on 34 inch mudders and had a 454 Cummins Diesel with a super duper turbo charger, duel axel, split differential, and power steering. What a site to see. And when I say few knew about it, I mean like me and maybe one other person. Man I miss those days😂

[@stevekatz4372]

Well, it's starting to happen! Yes, this great .22LR Kel-Tec with their three 16 round magazines, makes this a viable option for a carry gun for your self defense needs! OK OK so many will argue this point and this is not about trying to convince everyone to start using this gun for your EDC. Yes, I do carry this gun many times as my EDC and I never feel like I'm under gunned at all! I have been so Impressed with this firearm and I have shot over 1000 rounds with No Failures and this made me buy another one! I really don't care what any of these so called experts believe and I carry mine with Confidence!

[@paulcarlin5181]

I won't dispute the caliber. I just don't trust the reliability of the .22lr ammo. Maybe you put the work in with using higher quality rounds, making sure there are no mag issues cleaning the gun before using, etc but that is not every gun owner. I am not slagging a .22lr because I own one too. I have other options for EDC so I do that.

[@stevekatz4372]

Yes I do agree with you on the possibility of a Reliability issue and I would never try to convince anyone to get rid of their 9mm and start to carry a .22LR but I stand firm on the way I feel about myself feeling confident when I carry My P17 in my front pocket with 17 rounds of 22LR ammo!

[@SoonDumpingAllGmailAccounts]

@@paulcarlin5181 Just make certain you carry quality ammo, like Aguila Interceptor & a second strike autoloader, and your probability of having a misfire requiring a full pistol check is so close to null-set that it I have to believe it would be God's will.

[@SoonDumpingAllGmailAccounts]

@@davehart7943 Sig P322?

[@FoulPet]

I've never seen any 22 shoot 1000 rounds with 1 failure.

[@qinarizonaful]

I bought Six P17s for my family members on sale for $169 ea. Now we all have CC, same mags and alternate Federal Punch with CCI stingers in the mag loading for 2 to 4 round taps -- always!!! We train to crouch, (takes us out of line of fire for the split second you need, makes us smaller target, and more stable platform), shoot "up" and shoot head, neck, pelvis til the threat is down. Pelvis rounds frequently hit bony pelvis and deflect up, through large vascular on the way up into chest through lungs and heart, negating most body armor immediately!!!! Four to face, four to pelvis should put any attacker down: brain/cord scramble and/or leaking profusely. ❤ your style, facts and content. TY. Subscribed.

[@anonymousf454]

@@qinarizonaful Nice..very well put Sir

[@rainerweishaupl1103]

where did you find them for $169. each? At a gun store or gun show?

[@1fredwahl]

Yeah!

[@robertkeller9828]

@@qinarizonaful 6 FALSE SENSES of security!

[@tomhinklejr.5055]

When I was 19, I was shot by a CCI Stinger. It hit me from the left side, went through the front of my leg, then went in again about a inch from my manhood (or squirrel hood). The bullet made it to the lining of my stomach, where it was pulled out. I had just got paid that day, and had a wad of money in my left pocket. It shredded the money, before entering my body. It was a close range shooting, and it was accidentally done. The guy fell while shooting, and thats how I got hit. I wouldn't want too go through that again.

[@JamesJones-cx5pk]

God bless you. One of my buddies got hit in the clavicle, bounced of his shoulder blade and caused havic for 20 years and many surgeries.

[@busymountain]

Because the 22 tends to stay in the flesh and not go through is why some say it’s so effective

[@jzzz8371]

yes!!!! return of the 22lr ccw discussion.. absolutely love my p17, lcp2 22lr and LCR 22! carry 1 of the 3 daily, haters hate.

[@AmbGun]

I do need to try those other options as well as a Beretta 22.

[@stevekatz4372]

I also carry my P17 with Confidence but I also have two Glocks, G43 & G48 which are my favorite 9mm handguns! At my age of 78, I can shoot my P17 better and faster than either of my Glocks!

[@stevekatz4372]

Yes, I purchased one of these So Called Cheap 22LR Hand Guns in May, 2021 and I shot it right out of the box with No Problems at all and after about 1000 rounds of Flawless use, I purchased another one 4 months later! I Paid only $212 for each and I already have gotten my moneys worth from these two great 22LR Guns! I'm having twice as much fun at my LGR and I'm saving a bunch of money! Oh Yes, I must also mention, at my age (78) I Now carry my P17 as my EDC and I can shoot this much better than my 9mm Handgun! Easy to keep clean and my two have been very reliable!

[@AmbGun]

I wish I could get a tan for $212. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@frankxplor]

This is the best gun content I've seen in a LONG time. Original, smart, backed-up, well delivered. Keep it up, you could be one of the top gun youtubers.

[@AmbGun]

Thanks very much. I hope you'll share this video and our channel montage with others. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWLanZWiaa6tac0

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

@@AmbGunlol only responds to compliments

[@AmbGun]

@@ACommenterOnKZbin is that a compliment?

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

@@AmbGun NO ... its a comment based on the fact that you only reply you specific comments while leaving the others left dead. Its like you only replt to those that give you a good comment.

[@PutTheLimeInTheCoconut]

​@@AmbGunHow much did KelTec pay you to make this video?

[@frankfitz3421]

Well done, finally someone not bad mouthing a very capable round.

[@garyevans3421]

I was gifted a reprint of Col Hatcher’s book on wound ballistics from the 1920’s. Lots of things have improved over the years, including hollow points. He came to the conclusion that handguns of the time wouldn’t reliably expand the hollow points of the day. Hence, the recommendation of big bores. What hasn’t changed is the lethality of 22lr wounds. It was in the middle of the Prohibition fights on the border that his stories were from, but he made a point of how lethal they truly were. One thing hasn’t changed, if you take a shot through the innards from a rimfire rifle, in most cases then, a doctor is going to have to pull your actual guts out to plug holes or you will most likely die. Some places, by their very remoteness make that impossible. No, I wouldn’t want anyone emptying a P17 or a 10/22 into me!

[@Mockturtlesoup1]

I'm skeptical of these findings(and others that I've seen) in regards to effectiveness of various calibers. I feel like there are so many variables(particularly shot placement) that the results aren't as accurate as they may seem, even when attempting to control for things like shot placement. Some of the studies I've read also suffer from surprisingly low sample sizes. One study I remember seeing had .25ACP being more effective than 9mm, .40, or .45(or at least some of those 3, I don't recall the exact numbers/results), .32ACP being about half as effective of the 3 common/traditional carry/duty rounds, and .380 being like 3 or 4 times more effective. How does that make any sense? But perhaps worst of all, many of these studies(not all) are collecting data _only_ from deceased subjects, or worse, are simply using coroner's reports, which often leave things out for various reasons, including even gunshots other than the one that is believed to have caused the death. For me, I can't see myself ever carrying a .22 for self defense. I can understand how any bullet that penetrates deep enough into a vital organ would be good enough to kill or incapacitate that person, but I don't trust .22 to be able to penetrate through clothing, then skin, then bone, and still have enough energy to punch through a vital organ. There's also the(admittedly unlikely, at least for most people who CC) problem of barrier penetration, such as car doors/windows/windshields. Lastly, you've got the problem of the inherent unreliability of semi-auto rimfire guns. Between the variability in power between brands, the potential for rim/magazine binding, and their increased likelihood to have misfires or cause other jams/malfunctions, I just personally can't see myself carrying a .22(not to mention the power/velocity/energy you lose going from a .22 rifle to the short barrels on these super compact pistols. That being said, to each his own, and 17 rounds of .22 is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

[@FreakMeat74]

​@@Mockturtlesoup1 At self defense distances a headshot from a .22 out of any barrel length is an instant shut-off. Shot placement is king, and one has many chances to make the shot, and an increased chance if they train diligently which is far easier with the cost of .22 ammo. Or just put all the rounds center of mass (faster than any other caliber due to no recoil) and it's like a shotgun blast. Anyone can be proficient AND afford to train with a .22 which I think are the two biggest advantages. And with the knowledge we have now, youtube videos/tests, quality ammunition etc "Inherent unreliability of rimfires" is a mostly outdated statement especially with proper maintenance/cleaning practices. I still like my G30 though and carry it sometimes lol so yeah it definitely remains a personal decision based on lots of factors :)

[@MrFlyme123]

I have seen farmers instantly dispatch a 1,200 Cow. One shot to the BRAIN.

[@Iceaxehikes]

I really like the multiple options in .22lr revolvers and semi autos we have these days. Anything in .22lr would absolutely be the last gun i would let go, if i had to choose. For the facts that you mention: cost, weight, bulk, and effectiveness.

[@Liberty4Ever]

15:20 - The P17 has a slide stop lever. It's not a slide release. Use it as a slide release and it will quickly wear out and will need to be replaced. That's not a deficiency in the design. To operate the slide release, sling shot the slide (pull back on the slide and release it), as it was designed to be used.

[@AmbGun]

Yes, most firearms companies make that statement. But we test them as slide releases anyway. Wore out in short order, KelTec sent a replacement....haven't bothered to install quite yet. But with the second P17, we've kept to slingshotting....and it's already showing signs of wear, i.e., failing to hold the slide back when an empty mag is ejected. A weakness, I'll be covering in a future video, but not one I'm, personally, too concerned about.

[@Hornet135]

This is like when Apple said “you’re holding your phone wrong.”

[@Hornet135]

@@JimJWalker Wrong.

[@Hornet135]

@@JimJWalker Certified by whom, fudds? You’re paying him to feed you a load of crap. If slide stops weren’t supposed to be used, why do they put them on guns? They could save money by not putting them on there. Using a slide stop to release the slide after inserting a magazine is the method called for in the Army field manual for the M1911. Maybe your instructor should go tell them they’re wrong.

[@Riverking1]

​@@Hornet135right

[@SirPHreshMusic]

I just bought the P17 as my first pistol. I'm very inexperienced with guns and I just took it to the range recently (also for the first time); it's really comfortable in my hand, easy to load and fire, no jamming issues, recoil is damn near non-existent, and the rounds are dirt cheap. Definitely a worthwhile purchase, and I'm confident carrying it for CCW purposes. 🤘🏼

[@AmbGun]

It has a great trigger so be very careful. Become accustomed to manipulating the thumb safety a lot AmbGun's two safety rules (treating every firearm as if it's loaded) 1. Never let the muzzle cover anything you do not mind destroying...including your target and what's beyond it 2. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. Keep in mind that 22LR is no child's toy. It is deadly out beyond 400 yards. When not carrying the firearm, secure it from children. Whenever I get a new firearm to test, I dry fire it hundreds if not thousands of times before I ever do live fire. I am very fond of the Accurize training laser, Mantis Laser Academy, and MantisX for dry fire practice. I have reviews of each as well as offer the AmbGun P17 Hammer Block at.... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

@@AmbGun if your finger is NOT on the trigger then it wont go off so its safe to point it at whatever ...

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

Agree with you 100% ... Lightweight gun, fits good in hand, 17 rounds, cheap ammo, recoil is non existant and has a very light ~2.5 lb trigger ... I would most def carry this as a ccw. Just use GOOD quality ammo like CCI Mini Mags

[@Riverking1]

​what a troll! I hope you don'tactuallybelieve that@@ACommenterOnKZbin

[@vanbilly8387]

"recoil is damn near non-existent,"

[@mb19842002]

Man I was happy to hear you mention diet and fitness in a gun video. We can't exactly shoot our way out of a deadly encounter with cancer, heart disease, or diabetes.

[@AmbGun]

Yeah, the "I wouldn't trust my life to x" crowd are the same guys you see in the fast food drive through...trusting their life to crap food.

[@patrickpewpew9782]

Great video! I have no problem carrying my p17. It has been just as reliable and accurate as everything else I own.

[@clear_gray_sky539]

Another advantage when I put my suppressor on my keltec p17 it’s very very quiet

[@tekxmcfly6159]

Great vid love ther facts! Long been a rimfire guy. The Kel Tec PMR30 is another great option. 30 rounds of 22 win mag in a light accurate package. Definitely not in the same size class as the p17 but still concealable. Love 22!

[@contractor556]

Pops swears by the pmr30… edc

[@Michelle2A]

I usually carry both-- 9mm and .22LR-- usually at the same time. I can't really articulate a good reason why, but I feel like I should have a 9mm on me. I prefer to shoot .22LR, however. Carrying a purse means that I can carry one on-body and one in the special compartment in my bag. I'd love to get down to one carry gun but I don't know which one I'd feel comfortable giving up. I get plenty of range time with both but usually shoot the .22 more because I enjoy it more. After this video I may give more thought to leaving the 9mm at home more often. My P17 is flawless, ever since I broke it in, and I load it with Federal Punch when I'm carrying. Even if I had a FTF I'm so comfortable with the gun that I could clear the problem without having to think about it. Thanks for your videos! They always give me food for thought.

[@AmbGun]

I revel in the thought of you carrying both.

[@innercityprepper]

I really like the way you think. Your philosophy of self defense and preparedness is spot on.

[@AmbGun]

Thanks...I like that you like the way I think! www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@blueheelerfriend8450]

Nice job on this video..very well-thought-out and documented answers for why to carry the p17 22lr. 👍

[@johnlakey4983]

Incredible! Your logical treatment of the subject makes you, in my opinion, the best expert in this area. Thank you

[@AmbGun]

Thanks. Really I'm just channeling Ellifritz, Applegate, and Sturdivan.

[@herotolegend]

Honestly....fantastic video. I just got one of these at a gun auction for $200 because I wanted a .22 pistol and at retail pricing this was a steal. But then I started thinking of all the potential of a higher capacity .22 magazine for carry and training and I'm more hyped than ever. You made a very good case for this pistol. Glad I have one. Also, the point on caring a small med kit rather than a heavier gun is actually really awesome and refreshing. That is absolutely a more critical piece of kit to have IMO.

[@daddoesthings9461]

I carry a full size 9mm with 17 rounds, a spare mag and a full ifak. I where normal wrangler jeans and boots, and a t shirt. You don't have to sacrifice performance over a little bit of weight. But hey you do you boo. Have fun when your 22 won't get through your windshield to stop the bad guy on the other side of it.

[@FreakMeat74]

@@daddoesthings9461 The ignorance/salt in this comment.. my god lol

[@daddoesthings9461]

@@FreakMeat74 elaborate please. Why am I wrong

[@FreakMeat74]

​@@daddoesthings9461 No lol I don't think I will. Educate yourself instead of speaking in stereotypes. I believe this quote applies here: "Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

[@MI2APatriot]

@@daddoesthings9461 Why are you so butthurt that he bought a .22?

[@kellyedington8716]

The light weight feel of this handgun is awsome to carry iwb... I have had 1 ftf in roughly 500 rnds with cheap armscore ammo... 🧐 I love it. Its very comfortable to conceal carry without being weighed down... Runs just about anything I have fed it... 👍

[@imml4]

Can't deny facts, no matter how much they go against the feels! Thanks for the great info!

[@AmbGun]

And yet I still FEEL the need to carry a nine on occasion. But when I've my full context, I carry the P17.

[@markfcoble]

Nice production work. Thanks.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

3:45 Depends on the size of the gun. Full size 8.25 inch barrel with full 20 rounds weighing in at just over 2 lbs ... VS Sig P322 at 6 inches long and 14 rounds at 1 lb .... Big difference there in weight to handle with 1 hand

[@AmbGun]

Heavier gun is a bit of an advantage for shooting. A lighter gun will magnify sloppy technique more. Weight might minutely slow things down a bit during ambi transitions, but weight is more of an issue of carrying capacity...opportunity cost. I prefer a 16 ounce pistol with a knife and TQ than a 2 pound pistol alone.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

@@AmbGun The bottom line is we carry for that close encounter, not carry for that 100+ ft encounter. Not going to carry a full size 2 lb gun with an 8+ inch barrel just because it has less recoil ..... Smaller light weight gun will be easier to draw and fire off those rounds from that 10 ft encounter ...

[@AmbGun]

@@ACommenterOnKZbin sub 10 ft and point shooting. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/point-shooting

[@JR-jv3cd]

I'm pretty sure I watched this back when you did this. I had had my Hellcat for a year, or maybe two. So, I had no interest in another EDC pistol. I really like the Hellcat. I had already fed my need for high capacity .22 when I happened on a CP33. I sucked it up and spent the bucks to get it while the gettin' was good. And I'm very glad I did. I love the gun. However, watching this video again last night, it hit me like a ton of bricks that the P17 is a must have, regardless of what else in in the gun case. My wife has real problems with her shoulders and wrists. I didn't realize it, but she told me tonight that she can barely rack the slide on her Sig P238 these days, which I bought her for that reason. I think the P17 will make her much safer and more confident. She might finally start to enjoy shooting again. And I'll be buying two. Like I said, "must have."

[@AmbGun]

Be sure to report back after you track a couple down. You wife will love it.

[@CStack2Ci]

Excellent video! I love my KelTec P17 and prefer to carry it over larger calibers during the blazing hot AZ summers!

[@AmbGun]

Glad you liked it. Be sure to check out the AmbGun P17 page... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@Icecream-edible]

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I pocket carry a Ruger lcp2 in 22 quite often and carry a full size 9mm in a small drawstring style bag. I usually always have both with me but I ALWAYS have the Ruger in my pocket.

[@AmbGun]

That old saying...two guns is one, one gun is none. I'd sure like to try a Ruger 22 LCP. That thing looks so small, I'm afraid it might end up in the clothes washer.

[@garyevans3421]

@@AmbGun 😆

[@GiorgosC-rp5ms]

@@AmbGun lol.its a great little gun

[@calebdoner]

Extremely interesting presentation. I've been carrying a shield for years, and just picked up a P17 this week. I think I have finally found an autoloader that my wife will be comfortable with. It is such a nice shooter, I'm thinking about getting a second one.

[@wapiti3750]

Why not get 3 or 4? You're loaded with cash so what's the delay all about.

[@keithtate1241]

I appreciate the information. My current EDC is a subcompact 9mm and I carry a micro compact 380ACP in my pocket for backup. I love my Taurus TX22 and would not have an issue carrying it because I am actually more accurate and faster with it. Also, it is very accurate, reliable and eats everything I feed it. I am considering getting a Kel-Tec P17 just because it is interesting. Thanks again for the video.

[@AmbGun]

What is your 9 of choice? I still carry a P365xl on occasion. And have a review coming out this fall on the Springfield Armory XD-M Elite Compact 10mm.

[@keithtate1241]

@@AmbGun I am a Taurus fan and have a Taurus G2C for my EDC, a G3 for my bedside and a PT738 TCP for a pocket backup and of course my TX22 for inexpensive training. All are accurate, reliable and eats everything I feed them.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Dude, this video is so spot on, especially about the food, fitness, and IFAK. If you carry a gun but not an IFAK, you don't care about safety, you just care about power. Same if you eat crap and don't workout but think a gun is the best way to protect your family. Maybe protect your family from cheeseburgers lol Anyway, I'm not saying it's wrong to want power and cheeseburgers. Just don't lie to yourself is all.

[@AmbGun]

Thanks for watching. Guns are just cooler than IFAK's. I like handling and cleaning my pistol....can't say I do the same with my tourniquet. 😆

[@Joeak74]

AWESOME CONTENT! I especially like the FACTS listed starting at 8:20 I just picked up my first P17 (not my last either), and can say that it is so far 100% reliable (400 rounds) which is BETTER than any of my Ruger mark I, II, III, or IV's, of the Browning buck mark, or CZ 75 Cadet.

[@MARKWALTON-u6x]

The p 17 I enjoy ringing the steel with mine and shooting the spinners with mine at local clubs 25 yard range. Was at the range today ran the p17 and my TX 22. steels .......ring " ring'" ring " all day long On the paper targets... I think I'm little better with slightly bigger and heavier Taurus but it's very close. I enjoy the hell out of both firearms. Keeps me in practice.. Can't afford these days a afternoon at the range shooting centerfire rounds.

[@AmbGun]

TX22 is one I'd like to review someday...hoping they come out with a paddle mag release version though. Weight helps with accuracy for sure. I have an old Ruger MKIII that I shoot a tiny bit better than the P17, but not enough to justify packing it. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@jimmypavone3231]

I love my P17 and came to the same conclusion - perfect for an elderly family member I live with.

[@AmbGun]

And once your elderly family member adopts it, like my wife did, there is the benefit of staying with the P17 family wide for mag compatibility. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@johnpelszynski6646]

B R A V O

[@marekburza7425]

I've been promoting the .22lr as a self defense option forever. The ability to drop 15 rounds quickly without any recoil may even make .22lr the single best...... But if someone ever makes a compact 22 Magnum that holds double digit rounds.. Winner

[@paulcarlin5181]

There are always option, but debatable if its your best IF you have other options.

[@TheTeeDay]

Kel TEC pmr30 is a 22mag version of what you are describing.

[@marekburza7425]

@@TheTeeDay not exactly.... I have a PMR30 and while it is awesome, it's not exactly compact as far as pistols go.

[@shelbysupersnake8575]

Kel-Tec PMR -30 , you have a 30 round mag. +1 in the chamber of .22 magnum ‼️🔥👍

[@RustyShackleford76]

Yeah I’d rather have something I can shoot more accurately and have more rounds with. More chances to hit your target, once you get shot once you definitely don’t want to get shot again

[@Jay-ph8tv]

Great presentation, well put together and informative. I bought the KelTec P17 in a Black Friday sale, and I love it. It really puts out the ammo and it handles really well.

[@AmbGun]

Wish I spotted Black Friday P17's. I'd like to get a third one.

[@rayditzenberger9517]

Where did you find one for sale. Not here in middle TN

[@HansBelphegor]

@@AmbGun psa right now!

[@AmbGun]

@@HansBelphegor Available. Free shipping. Good price. Good to see. But by the time you pay your FFL transfer, buying locally for $240-250 is comparable.

[@carolkmc2855]

Good job and I concur. I have been carrying good .22lr autos with CCI Velocitors for the past 2 years.

[@AmbGun]

Which 22 pistol are you using?

[@carolkmc2855]

@@AmbGun For a year I carried the Walther P22, and in July 21 I acquired an M&P .22 Compact which is a better pistol. I not only feel adequately armed (I live in a low crime area), but the little .22 is safer for bystanders in stores, malls, etc. I sometimes wear a quality bellyband holster rather than a OWB leather holster.

[@Wyoming_Gramps]

Excellent video. As a result, I have gotten the P17 at a local gun store hear Gillette. It is an amazing little gun. About 500 rounds thru it so far. It may replace my S&W Shield for daily carry.

[@AmbGun]

Gillette? Wyoming? T&T Guns and Ammo? I know they have a few in stock.

[@Wyoming_Gramps]

@@AmbGun I started to say that or Rozet but figured you would not have heard of them. Not many people would be willing to take the verbal abuse of recommending a 22 pistol, as you have done. but I totally agree. I picked up a Glock 44 to practice with and realized I could shoot it way faster and more accurate than my G19. Mentally I have been moving the way you already have. The P17 is smaller and nearly twice the capacity as the G44. What part of Wyoming are you in?

[@honestreviewer3283]

I love .22. My carry weapon is a Ruger LCP II .22 with a green laser. I have a Kel Tec CP33 with a brace, red dot and green laser for home defense and "end of the world" scenarios (however unlikely). I carried a Sig 226 in Afghanistan and have a Sig 365, but it stays in my nightstand because, even though it's small, it's still heavier than I'd like while walking my dog, running errands, etc. And I got me a big ol' ammo can full of .22; it's light (anyone who's served in the infantry will appreciate this), affordable, and you can find it pretty much anywhere (you know, in an unlikely end of the world scenario).

[@AmbGun]

The "unlikely end of the world scenario" we seem eager to make happen. Those Blackhawk Down guys, had they known how things would turn out that day, I'm sure would have traded their M4 and 5 or 6 mags for the equivalent weight of a Ruger 10/22 and 22LR ammo.

[@edwardjohnson4278]

The 22 long rifle cartridge is not good for self defense but with 17 rounds I'll try it

[@AmbGun]

Interested in data or study that counters Ellifritz or "Handbook on Human Vulnerability".

[@bushcrafter6416]

Amazing facts reguarding the plausibilty of 22LR. Good job, Glad I keep all my 22 rifles, pistils and ammo...

[@michaeljlangford]

I agree with your analysis. I have more than one .22lr carry handgun.

[@AmbGun]

While the P17 is my favorite, I do also have a 22LR Ruger LCP II for deep concealment. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/ruger

[@mikepr4586]

Excellent video. Learned on caliber 22LR in the '60's. Competed with 22LR in the '70's. I run a few other calibers...love em all!!! But I have 3 P17's.

[@AmbGun]

Glad you enjoyed the video. This one is the second in a three part series... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@mikepr4586]

@@AmbGun I'll check them out after work!

[@nerdyronald7753]

Great video!! Love the P17!!

[@randalthor6872]

This was an AWESOME presentation, good sir. Instasubbed. I can't wait to watch your other vids. I'm currently shopping for a P17 and then your video gets suggested! haha I love it

[@AmbGun]

AmbGun has a lengthy playlist of P17 videos. A playlist on how to become Ambi.

[@bennyworkman4605]

Very interesting statistics on the 22lr. I have to admit to owning 2 each of .40 .45 and .22lr pistols as well as six 9mm pistols and two .380's. By far, my favorite carry options are the .380 acp and the .22lr because of size and weight. (I am approaching 80 years old so the light recoiling 22lr is appreciated.) I bought up over 10K rounds of bulk Remington and Federal .22lr when a 550 round brick or a 1400 round tub was under $20 so I have plenty available, but I still eye a TX22 or the KelTec P17 due to their high capacity.

[@AmbGun]

The P17 really demands high velocity 22LR...especially when new. After a few thousand rounds it might run that bulk ammo fine.

[@bennyworkman4605]

@@AmbGun The Thunderbolt and the Remington run fine in my Ruger SR22 and GSG1911-22 so I am content on that account but it is nice to contemplate the larger capacity of the P17 and TX22.

[@bryanciacco4181]

Excellent video, this is easily the best every day carry self defense gun of all time.

[@AmbGun]

I agree. I wish they'd make a compact, 10 round pocket version to compete with the 22LR Ruger LCP II.

[@peteshaw7090]

Excellent review! I have put about 300 rounds thru my P17, and love it. I do need to get a good CCW OWB holster for it.

[@JIMBOBALOU]

Just ordered one of these from my LGS today for $226 out the door. I couldn't be more excited for it. I own a Springfield Armory Hellcat as well and has been my EDC. But I hardly train with it because of ammo prices. So I wouldn't be surprised if I start carrying the p17 because it's cheaper to shoot and train with.

[@AmbGun]

I'd take two more if my LGS had them at all.

[@JIMBOBALOU]

@@AmbGun They didn't have any in stock. Had to get on a wait-list. And then order it when it became available from one of their distributors. I really wanted an FDE one, but had to settle for black. Still happy I got one though

[@odogthegunguy507]

I carry mine

[@robertharing7031]

I realize and take into fact how proficient you are with probably any pistol! But I believe that I will continue to carry a 9 and hopefully I will never have to rely on my.22s although I have a lot of super velocity and so called self defense ammunition for them. I still enjoyed your presentation and it gives me a lot to think about

[@AmbGun]

Besides the Ambi thing, I'm not that skilled with a pistol...the saying "those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" comes to mind.

[@RalphRayner-uw1mu]

Good video, been thinking about concealed carry with it. Had it a couple of months, had no malfunctions in 500 rounds federal match 40 gr. lead. It’s pretty nasty, haven’t cleaned it since got it for reason. I did clean it before using it with Break-free CLP, seem to make it slicker.

[@nylesfrench3568]

I love when the 22 gets it's props. Nobody wants to get popped with anything.

[@bradleyjohnson452]

i'm sold. Thank you for this video

[@AmbGun]

Hope you enjoy it! Report back how it goes for you.

[@cd07r6]

Excellent Presentation !!!!!!!!!! Something to think about

[@CHARLESBW453]

P17 with aluminum trigger has increased on target reliability with the light trigger pull is great

[@AmbGun]

MCarbo?

[@dangoldnerd]

You present a well-reasoned case. I never thought about it, but maybe the smaller.22 is more prone to tumbling after penetration .

[@AmbGun]

My original "How the 22 Wins" has several comments from EMT and medical professionals suggesting that the 22 deflects and bounces around.

[@littleteethkeith]

I love my P17. My jammed a lot when it was new but after about 500 rounds it runs like a top. Super accurate and light as a feather.

[@AmbGun]

Were you running High Velocity 40 gr ammo like Mini-Mag? All four of mine have been rock sold out of the box with Mini-Mag...I do get malfunctions with std velocity bulk box when new but even that stuffs runs pretty good after break in. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@hillbilly4christ638]

More people have been killed by a .22 than any other caliber. It is of course about shot placement, so any caliber that you can put on target accurately is the one that YOU should carry. There are many other factors but it really boils down to one thing.

[@richardgonzales4815]

This pistol is blowing up KZbin! And for a very good reason :It works ! I’m buying one ASAP ! I grew up in the 80’s : .22 was a staple weapon for most people back then . Most folks back then kept a .22 rifle in their home or truck , and a .22 revolver or semi auto mouse gun on their person .

[@AmbGun]

I grew up in the 70-80's and as a veterinarian's son, I witnessed numerous livestock humanely dispatched with a 22LR.

[@richardgonzales4815]

@@AmbGun : Yes, indeed . I was raised on a humble sized cow ranch ( kept no more than 40 head at a time) and used Our 22 Marlin tube loader to no end : Either putting down a steer ; or eliminating coyotes and other critters.

[@mrguiltyfool]

I can't seem to find the document that you are referring to. 22lr biggest weakness is it is not that reliable

[@stevekatz4372]

Mine went 1000 rounds without a Failure and my second one which I purchased 3 months after I purchased the first one still has had No Failures!

[@mrguiltyfool]

@@stevekatz4372 my ruger 10/22 is not that reliable

[@Sceptis]

I'm pretty sure he's citing the Aberdeen tests. Those tests are 80 years old and scientifically speaking were extremely lack luster. Most of the animals were killed via coup de grace with sledgemhammers and not the firearms with which they were shot. I think he may also be citing an amateur study done by a reporter that included a cobbling of police reports. His metric for "one-shot-stops" was overly simplistic and flawed: Shots fried/perps stopped = rate of stoppage. His sample sizes were also really small, often being less than 100 cases, and it didn't account for any of the nuances that may have driven those numbers such as platform used (semi/revolver) and ammo type. I'm not convinced by the arguments about the stopping power of 22, though I am intrigued by the utility of the 22 as a carry option.

[@joeluevano9366]

I would have believed that arguement just a few years ago. However, the advances in .22lr ammo and firearm engineering has brought the overall reliability very much on par with centerfire.

[@mrguiltyfool]

@@chipcarter5971 i don't shoot cci they are more $$ and defeats the pt of cheap 22lr

[@williamknight7040]

Thanks Mark. Another Great one!

[@AmbGun]

Thanks. I probably will slow the pace in 2022.

[@5Ring]

Just bought a P17. I carried a Taurus PT-22 (Metal version) as my backup for years. I could put eleven rounds (modified the mag followers) into a cake plate at 7yrds. It was my "get off me" gun and nobody is getting up from that. Can't wait to get the P17 out to the range. Bought a brick of Aquila Super Extra just for the occasion.

[@AmbGun]

My four P17's favor Mini-Mag, but I've had good results with Aguilla, too.

[@luke8552]

I love this video to the many options for self defense . You have done your research and it’s great . I personally own a p17 it work’s amazing and feels great in the hand . I got mine for $199 plus a lifetime warranty with shoot straight. My only concern that lingers is the reliability of the actual .22lr round in a semi auto . I really do like the idea of a smooth firing, high-capacity revolver that is double action, that way is there a failure I can just fire again a skip the round .

[@AmbGun]

I've had astonishing reliability with Mini-Mag I've been prodding Keltec to do a P10 mini version. I have a series of videos on the 22LR Ruger LCP II, which I like, but it's not nearly as reliable as the P17. kzbin.info/aero/PLVlCoEE1rzM4lznud3scB7Ej8twEQqKPO

[@ronbiter3612]

Keltec recommend to pull the slide and let it go to unlock. I guess so the lock doesn't wear like yours did. Nice video! Very informative

[@AmbGun]

Did that with our second P17. Lasted longer, but ultimately the same result. Good opportunity for aftermarket.

[@robert50173]

I REALLY like your open minded consideration to different self protection topics. I am gonna trade my 30 yr old Rug MK 2 that I shot maybe 100 rounds through for the P17 for a lot of practical purposes.

[@AmbGun]

P17 is awesome. But the Mk 2 is something you might wish you'd kept, too.

[@robert50173]

@@AmbGun for me, less stuff around is more enjoyable. I might get a Taurus Judge too...lol

[@jackbauer9077]

Good video, love paddle magazine release, I carry HK USP compact 9mm, also other paddle guns HK USP, walther P99,HK P30sk. Happy kel tec added the paddle. I got one on order this it will be a great plinker, and would make a good cheap gun for edc bag, bugout bag, car guns, and great tool you can afford to shoot and buy many to have for truck gun/tackle box gun, and make a great tool. Thanks for the review.

[@AmbGun]

I "discovered" the paddle in my search for an ambi mag release. Once I realized that accidental mag disengagements were eliminated, there was no going back. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXOXZHqporSGhNksi=ZLDhGCVe9gUVtHY0

[@chaburchak]

Just ordered the P17 with an eye toward a nightstand gun. One of these with a suppressor could be fired inside the house without deafening myself...

[@AmbGun]

I have fired a mag without ear pro (outside) and it wasn't that bad. I bet a Q-Erector suppressor would be something worth trying on the P17 to experiment and find just the minimum number of baffles needed to reduce the bark while minimizing the length and back pressure. Email them and check 'em out. Tell them AmbGun.com sent you. liveqordie.com/erector-22-black/

[@wmunny2152]

The PMR 30 is another great carry option. 30 rounds of .22 WMR.

[@AmbGun]

I really want to test the CMR30.

[@johnjanoscrat8000]

@@AmbGun Fun carbine to shoot and very reliable. I primarily shoot Federal Punch or Federal Game Shok 50 grain bullets.

[@numbzinger350]

Don't forget the Walther PPS Classic. It has a paddle style mag release as well.

[@AmbGun]

I really want to test one of the paddle mag equipped Walther 22's.

[@AmbGun]

I really want to test one of the paddle mag equipped Walther 22's.

[@jamesstalnaker8937]

EXCELLENT, the best I've seen and heard!😃

[@AmbGun]

Thanks! More at... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@11oldpatch]

I got one for plinking my son shoots 325 rounds of cheap federal bulk ammo and eats the heck out of it a few duds but it never hangs up I take the slide off and spray it out with balistol every time we shoot it gets very dirty with that ammo but if you get cci mini mags it’s very clean

[@AmbGun]

Mini-Mags really make the P17 shine. I think Sentry Tuf-Glide dry lube makes it almost self cleaning. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@VitoVisintini]

Many good points made in this video. One thing to consider, KelTec pistols are worth near zero after they are purchased, even if unfired. Many gun stores will not even take them on a trade, as there is nothing to be made off of them.

[@AmbGun]

I've attempted to purchase two different used P17's on MeWe...both priced at about $200. Both sold before I could land them. I've even been trying to buy a used one that was having problems just so I could do some analysis. Unfortunately I bought one from out of state when the owner claimed that my Hammer Block had locked it up. By the time I paid for shipping and FFL transfer, I paid almost $400. Again, I was hoping that I'd discover some flaw in the pistol or my hammer block that needed refinement. Neither turned out to be the case. Just newbie ignorance. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@chainer1969]

Just came across this video. I know I'm very late to the game. Lol. But just wanted to say, for those who may not know, Kel-Tek now has made a slide for the p 17 with a built in optic. Costs about $250. I own a P 17 and love it! I plan on getting the slide with optic in the very near future.

[@AmbGun]

kzbin.infof36INjZ0-dc?feature=share

[@chainer1969]

@AmbGun Thanks for the clip. Not everyone goes through KZbin looking for every video and clip. I only made the comment for info purposes for those who may be starting research and your video may be one of the first ones found.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

Red dots are 100% better than iron sights I have that same red dot slide on my P17 and i love it.

[@thomasholland3289]

Keltec now makes a factory crimson trace red dot slide for the P17. I have one. Consistently hits a 10" circle at 21 yds. P17 slide sticks when new on the feed. Flick it with your thumb and you're good to go. After about 300 rounds or so, that stopped. It didn't like Winchester Super X at all. Anything else has been fine. Even Light hyper velocity rounds. Punch, Stangers. It's a pretty neat gun. I am very happy with it no matter what ANYONE says about Kel-tec or .22LR. When my friends shoot it, they always smile... wonder why? 🤔

[@AnarSchism.]

I was very skeptical, but you made great points

[@AmbGun]

I continue to think and rethink the issue, but currently the P17 is now probably 90% of the time my EDC. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@stevemartin9200]

Excellent presentation. Im going out and buy two.

[@AmbGun]

I have bought four...so far. Hoping for a LCP sized version.

[@marvinlee8102]

Loved Aberdeen proving ground where I was trained as a fire control instrument repairer,calibrate weapons for direct hits,.22 lover for life,Tx .22 by Taurus is my carry weapon with .22 punch ammo.

[@AmbGun]

When were you at Aberdeen? Happen to coincide with Sturdivan's research? Any failures to fire with the Punch ammo? I tried a two hundred rounds and got to failures to ignite...tried failed cartridges in my P17, Ruger 10/22, and Tikka T1x. I did order a thousand rounds to do a followup, but for me my confidence lies with CCI Mini-Mag

[@marvinlee8102]

@@AmbGun I was there in 1989,I haven’t had a misfire with the punch ammo.

[@johnboyf-15vet51]

Just found your channel, subbed and liked…….I have many handguns in 22l/r……..just got the P-17, going to the range this week to try it out. I agree with you about the 22 l/r as a ccw. My main ccw is a Springfield EMP, 9mm, 3 in. But I often change it up with my 22’s. With the price of ammo like it is , you can shoot all day with a 22l/r. Training and being proficient in your carry gun is absolutely necessary. Most people will not shoot 500 rounds on a range day with 9mm or any other caliber. With 22lr at 6 to 10 cents per round its very affordable. 500 at 8 cents per round =$35…….9mm 500 rounds at 30cents per round = $150 dollars……..

[@AmbGun]

While waiting to head to the range, have a look at our KelTec P17 page... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@AmbGun]

We also have videos on the Springfield Hellion and XDM Compact 10mm. I'm trying to like the former, I do like the XDM 10mm, it's a blast to shoot. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/springfield

[@1fredwahl]

Nice

[@hernameisch3rry]

Thank you for the amazing video. What do you say to those who insist KelTec isn’t reliable and not a good self defense weapon?

[@AmbGun]

Part three in the series...Reliability of rimfire vs center-fire. Alternatives to P17...Ruger LCP (quite the struggle to make it reliable though), Smith and Wesson 43c www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@robertwarner-ev7wp]

My keltec P32 has been 💯 reliable through 800 rounds.

[@mbrenterprisesbdif]

ALSO YOU TAUGHT ME something today. Thank you (cant know everything) But know little more now thanks 2 u

[@AmbGun]

Just passing along what I learned from Greg Ellifritz and Larry Sturdivan.

[@BladeObssession]

I've heard of the Strausburg goat test. I wonder if that's what he was referring to,??

[@AmbGun]

No. Ballistician Larry Sturdivan led the "Handbook in Human Vulnerability" tests at Aberdeen.

[@GreatWhiteCat]

I've had a couple FTE with the P17, though that is admittedly with the cheapest bulk 22 the store had. The entire box of 325 I think I had 2, maybe 3 malfunctions, but all is within the break in period. Now I wanna try some decent ammo, I have a feeling it would do much better.

[@GreatWhiteCat]

Forgot to mention. Very accurate, very easy, and right out of the box. It's easily adjustable, and I didn't even need to.

[@AmbGun]

My most abused P17 fires cheap bulk ammo pretty well, just the normal failures to fire with that stuff Keep in mind that the manual specifies 40gr, high velocity ammo ..CCI Mini-Mag being the most popular.

[@AmbGun]

AmbGun P17 resource... www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@jasonbonar-jm2kn]

i heard on another video that the hogue grip sleeve for the glock43x fits the P17✌

[@AmbGun]

I would suggest avoiding the grip sleeve. The narrow P17 grip's advantage is that it allows one to rapidly index the pistol for point shooting. And with non existent recoil, you could fire the pistol with just thumb and fore finger.

[@tomhinklejr.5055]

Finally found a P17 at my L.G.S. Took it right too the range and used Federal lead nose and CCI Blazer. Zero malfunctions!!! I love this thing!

[@rmax2]

I love my .22's and have CC'd them in the past...it's only my opinion, but if anything .380 and up is on the table for CC use, the .22 will stay home. The P17 is a great little pistol, one question though, why do you have the P365XL?

[@AmbGun]

Good question. I have sold all but two of my centerfire pistols. 22 LCP magazine holds 10 rounds, the 380 six. Ellifritz data 22LR Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38 380 Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76 So the 22 magazine holds 7.24 incapacitations while the 380 holds 3.4 I really did like the P365XL especially with the MagGuts mag internals. And I loved shooting the Springfield XDM Compact 10mm. I kept the Mossberg MC2c because I like it a little better than the others and I still have an old KelTec PF9 just because I have an old battered Wyoming Traders vest setup for it. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@AmbGun]

Good question. 22LR LCP has 10 round magazines, the 380 six. 22LR Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.38 380 Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76 So the 22 LCP magazine contains 7.25 incapacitations, while the 380 contains 3.4 I loved shooting the Springfield XDM Compact 10 and I really did like the Sig P365XL especially with the MagGuts internals, but I have sold all of my centerfire pistols but two. I still have the Mossberg MC2c which I slight prefer over the Sig and an old KelTec PF9 because I have an battered Wyoming Traders vest setup for it. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/9mmvs22lr

[@rbrtck]

I agree with practically everything you said here, except that I've seen too many people, including expert trainers and those with a tremendous amount of experience, forget to deactivate manual safeties on the range for me to allow, let alone want, them on my defensive handguns. Of course, people will say that if you train enough, it shouldn't be an issue, but I keep seeing people make this mistake, and I've made the same mistake a bunch of times myself. That's why none of my defensive handguns (I prefer handguns for home defense, not just carry) have manual safeties. Thus far, after many years as a gun owner, I have never fired a gun I didn't intend to fire, but I have pulled triggers with manual safeties engaged on several occasions, at least, and I don't want that to happen with my life on the line.

[@AmbGun]

Until very recently, that was my view. So happens I did a short video regarding my reversion to the manual safety...like from back in my 1911 days. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6nFnXhpdtudfKM

[@christopherm8215]

You make some great points here I have always said to people who call the .22lr an inferior round well how many people do you see volunteering to get shot by one? Nobody lol and onto the p17 I had one and mine sadly was a lemon constant jams and failures to load and even stovepipes I wound up getting rid of it and getting a Taurus tx22 which has been 100% reliable. Now I am not saying the p17 is bad or unreliable since most reviews I have seen give it mass praise just my particular example was problematic and I am not opposed to getting another in the future. Great review by the way.

[@AmbGun]

Were you using Mini-Mag? I would actually like to find a problematic P17 that i could mess with. I wonder if my use of Sentry Tuf-Glide dry lube contributes to my collection's astonish reliability. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec

[@christopherm8215]

@@AmbGun I thought of ammo being an issue so I tried a few different brands and weights, tried cci mini mags rn 40gr, tried Aquila super extra 40gr rn, also tried Federal champion 36gr, browning bpr 36gr and finally some cci stingers 32gr. All had issues with that p17 using all 3 mags

[@glocksanchez7616]

This video is very informative and educated

[@janroberts8238]

A thoughtful and well reasoned video.

[@AmbGun]

Thanks for watching and considering the evidence.

[@wapiti3750]

You get a positive thumbs up for having the balls to put your name on your shirt.

[@AmbGun]

I don't have the balls to not exercise my right for the consequences in that direction are horrific.

[@robertwarner-ev7wp]

It looks like with that barrel/slide set up it should be able to shoot/cycle with a contact shot. If so it would out perform every semi auto on the planet in that regard. Have you tried that?

[@AmbGun]

I tried it from another angle. I was trying to do some G-Wrap shooting. It required a different G-Wrap grip to lock down the slide. So yes, it's going to be better than most conventional semi-auti pistols for muzzle contact...but not as good as a revolver. Possible I could do G-Wtap and let it cycle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZqlaKyNqNalpc0si=hziEWs-Lh70-tO-f

[@robertwarner-ev7wp]

@@AmbGun So I traded my sr22 for the p17, thats a no-go on the contact shot.

[@josecardenas4013]

Really enjoy your video, really contemplating the P17

[@AmbGun]

If I had to pick one firearm...especially if I had a total gun & ammo budget of $1,000...I'd choose the P17. If I were walking out the door for Z-Day and had to limit my total gun & ammo weight to 5 pounds, it would be the P17.

[@Beatdowncaptain1]

Gotta give props to the paintball jersey

[@AmbGun]

Bunkerking elbow pads make a regular appearance. Angel PB pants will make an appearance in a forthcoming video.

[@johnsilver7150]

If this info is true. Which country 's military that uses handguns as backup weapons use 22LR ?? Which police force or government agency in the WORLD carries a 22LR?

[@AmbGun]

IDF hostage/hijacker teams used Beretta 71's. Not that government agencies are the standard, IMO...just a bunch of committee group think parroting the conventional line. In retrospect, if I were in Mogadishu for "Black Hawk Down" I'd have preferred a Ruger 10/22 with 1,000 rounds over my M4 180 round load out. IDF learned that Ruger 10/22's are not "less than lethal" weapons.

[@sammcclendon2607]

Kel tek makes slide with red dot attached you can buy for it from them

[@AmbGun]

AmbGun review of KelTec's red dot slide... kzbin.infof36INjZ0-dc

[@stuartmarkman769]

I imagine that KalTec knows about the slise stop wear and my fix the on newer models. If you call them and talk too them they may answer your question about the slide stop.

[@AmbGun]

My media contact at KelTec hasn't mentioned anything. What is your fix? Maybe I could do a video on it.

[@jackjones9460]

How about having the three supplied magazines and a 50 round box of .22 bullets? If you’re involved in a long enough fire fight that you’d empty the three mags you can use your anxious waiting time reloading or topping off your mags. Reloading the mags can be done by feel and is very calming at high fear/stress times.

[@beavisroadhog9629]

If you think reloading mags while in a gunfight is calming, you have obviously never been to one.

[@jamessandifer3405]

My p17 is an awesome pistol, love it only gave $200 for it. Besides I can afford to shot it a lot. $21.64 for 325 rounds auto match.

[@stevestanley5183]

Do you think part of the dependability of this gun is the lightness of the slide.

[@AmbGun]

Probably lowers the threshold for cycling failure a bit. I and others have experimented with mounting red dots. Running a lightweight Shield SMSc and paired with CCI Velicitor ammo, it ran reliably. But less reliably with other cartridges. I know KelTec has experimented with a lightened slide to pair with red dots. Hope to test one soon. www.ambgun.com/ambidextral-pistol/keltec