How the King of Kpop destroyed his kingdom: 3 Generations of Rain's Poor Leadership

TODAY'S VIDEO: How the King of Kpop destroyed his kingdom: 3 Generations of Rain's Poor Leadership
Hey guys! So today's video is one I have really debated doing for some time, but after the recent situation with CIIPHER, I have decided to (nervously) go for it!
We are going to be discussing the kpop idol Rain, more specifically him and his teams’ management of kpop boy groups over the years, or the lack thereof.
Before we start I just want to preface this by saying this video could potentially get lengthy, and i’m going to do my very best to try and make it as structured as possible but I’m sorry if it gets a bit hectic. But more importantly, please do not take any of my stances in this video as me diminishing everything Rain achieved as a kpop idol, but more so what he has been doing as a businessman. My main objective with this video is to raise awareness to an issue I have noticed crossing multiple generations of kpop or those who may not be aware. I do not condone any attack towards Rain or any of his team. I am FULLY aware that he will not be the sole party responsible for any of the grievances we are about to air, but we are going to look at the part he plays and why that is important to the bigger picture as this video goes on.
I really hope you enjoy this video!
If you enjoyed this video, please give it a thumbs up and I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments on this topic.
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Thank you so much for watching, and I will see you next time!
- dearyoongi 💖
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 Intro
0:41 Disclaimers
1:23 Introducing Rain & his impact
2:42 Launching J.Tune Entertainment
3:13 2nd Gen: MBLAQ's story
4:16 Merger of JYP & J.Tune Entertainment
6:18 MBLAQ's mistreatment
8:37 3rd Gen: MADTOWN's story
10:03 The collapse of J.Tune Camp (J.Tune Entertainment) & End of Madtown
12:50 Launching R.A.I.N Company
13:35 4th Gen: CIIPHER's story
15:46 CIIPHER's mistreatment & member departures
18:04 The issue with kpop idols starting music labels
20:57 Outro
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tags~
How the King of Kpop destroyed his kingdom 3 Generations of Rains Poor Leadership,how the king of kpop destroyed his kingdom,how rain ruined ciipher,the story of ciipher,the story of mblaq,what happened to mblaq,what happened to rain,what rain did to mblaq,the issue with kpop idols turned label owners,the issue with kpop idols starting agencys,why kpop idols shouldnt start an agency,how rain ruined kpop groups for 3 generations,rains poor decisions ruined ciipher,dearyoongi,ciipher,mblaq,rain,j.tune camp,madtown,j.tune entertainment,rain company,the unit,rainism,kcon la 2023,rain black ocean,why do people want rain to get a black ocean,kpop black oceans,what is a black ocean,rain kcon la 2023

[@soomi]

People maybe forget, but YG, LSM and JYP were all idols/artists themselves too and not going to lie. Throughout the big 3 blowing up it still always felt like it was made about them. It felt so weird. I think as a CEO you need to learn to step aside and let your employees shine.

[@nastynat2002]

Most CEO are not artists, they are businessmen or businesswomen. They dont know to be an artist. They know what is profitable. Look at the word Showbusiness, there's the word "show" and "business". Look how many letters are into two words. Business (8), show (4). They will make it in the business aspects of things. They don't care about the artists. Like Prince predicted years ago. The moment those people control the industry, it will die. It needs to be the artists controlling the industry. Also the artists that are becoming more and more greedy to become one of them look at Jay-Z, he is not an artist anymore, but businessman. Look at his label Roc-a-fella, he did his artists dirty. Music has to be putting out good music and take care with all honesty your artists because without, they have nothing and they know it but don't care. It is sad but the reality of it.

[@lisaadams7339]

Exactly this man promotes himself more than his group. Like he’s even going to perform at Kcon live be fr. Psy is trying with TNX but same with Rain they outshine their artists. They need to promote them more, events like KCON are good to make the group known to international fans, things like hello82, will&Ben show, KBS shows, Mnet Reality shows( something like what XG and ZB1 did to discover each member’s personality), behind the scenes blogs, dance covers, Magazines covers, interviews like buzzfeed, Seventeenmag, etc.. Rain had the opportunity but failed to do so. Again it’s just a lack of management and lack of professionalism inside the company.

[@ystrw]

That was particularly true with SuperM, wasn't it? LSM simply couldn't bear to step aside and let the group shine, he had to be in there taking the credit for getting it all put together. SuperM were supposed to come back this year, but SM is in such a state now, after the LSM vs nephew war, the Kakao takeover, the lawsuit for mistreatment, and idols quietly leaving or going on hiatus, that it looks like there may not be an SM Entertainment for much longer. And what's LSM doing? Oh, trying to get around the contracted terms of his 'retirement' and start a new group/company. Maybe in Korea, maybe in China... As for JYP, he never could stand to let any boy group get bigger than him. SKZ have done it pretty well in spite of him. I got into K-pop right before Got7 left, and I remember how much their fanbase *wanted* them to leave the company because they were so sidelined and ignored and just never really given a chance. I haven't followed them much since, but it looks like Jackson is doing a better job with the company side of things than most idol-managers.

[@ZDubbed]

Gotta get. Gotta get. Gotta get that groove back.

[@OrvinReyes]

this is precisely why HYBE has been successful

[@Reichfurst1981]

The truth explained: Rain is an iconic idol but a terrible CEO and label owner. Nobody can deny that he destroyed Ciipher without given them an opportunity: more than a year without a comeback??!!!!! any youtube videos to promoting them?!!!!....Shame on him!!!!

[@debutriah2854]

You’re a big baby

[@Barb99]

the video i watched just before was Suchwita’s 4th chapter and Hoshi of Seventeen asked Yoongi ‘have you thought about producing your own group?’ and he said he actually has thought about it but he knows its such a big responsibility, you basically have the life of young teens and their dreams in your hands, so to make decisions about their lives it’s too much pressure and actually that’s such a good approach about this matter, rain should just stop making more groups until he actually isn’t greedy anymore tbh 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@astha9098]

He is literally deleting all bad comment and tagged post related to this issue from his insta can literally tell you how much he cares about his image

[@aloowalia2849]

​@@astha9098are you talking about rain?

[@taskyamaura2521]

woww suga emotinaly more mature than rain ?

[@oooo-cs9dw]

the most annoying thing is he keep call them his sons and declared in front of camera that he want to make them famous, but just right after they got the attention he abandoned them 🤷

[@kimberlyvuong6396]

@ ooo _ CS 9dw . You're wrong I support rain and his decision

[@oooo-cs9dw]

@@kimberlyvuong6396 serah lu mbak

[@malangkahome5213]

Do you guys think, he's jealous of their success? He's still want to perform on stage same as the owner JYP.

[@chan_chan7924]

rain literally made no sense.. smh

[@christina166]

He tried to get people to support the guys but what can he do when albums don’t sell and streaming doesn’t happen?

[@Ca-yr2rz]

When Ciipher went to Weekly Idol, Rain went too "to introduce them" but it was actually so anoying, he didn't let the boys talk so much and turned every segment about himself. Enhyuk and Kwanhee were constantly trying to stop him, but ofc they couldn't be harsh with him because seniority :/

[@geminimusic6]

Not to mention that he used his seniority to push ONF's Weekly Idol episode just to do that. :/

[@raincraze]

this is giving the same energy as jyp going on knowing bros with GOT7 . like mentor like mentee ig

[@parboninawar5850]

​@@raincraze at least GOT7 got to talk and call out JYP. Even Heechul told him(jokingly) that he came with GOT7 cuz nobody would've watched the show if he came alone.

[@margarete5920]

​@@raincrazefor that episode, it was later said that GOT7 wasn't "popular enough" for Knowing Bros "standard". So JYP request to come with them and then they agreed. I think this also happen when JYP came with Dahyun to Knowing Bros. The thing is, Knowing Bros demographics are more for young adults to older people. So if you're not famous enough for general audiences to recognize you, they rarely want to cast you. Except, ofc, if you have connections

[@naurrr]

he seems like such a narcissist

[@KopiAusomeJourney]

Let's face it, not all idols are gifted with management skills and they should just stay as idols. The sad part here, the dreams of these idol groups are crushed and discontinued due to the label's mismanagement.

[@naofg]

The worst part is that Rain shows that he doesn't care at all. He kept saying he sees Ciipher's members as his sons, but never promoted them right, and didn't even give them a chance. He could've used Keita's popularity from Boys Planet, Hyunbin having been on Fantasy Boys too (idk how popular he got?) to make a comeback around now, and Ciipher could have been successful. Instead, he gives up on them after only a little over 2 years since their debut. And he said this in an interview: ""I probably could've bought a house with that money. Sometimes, I wonder why I produced these guys." (Source : SBS Star) So yeah, he only cares about himself. So, I totally agree with the fans who are going to Kcon LA and plan to give him a black ocean (turn off all lightsticks) and not cheer at all when he's on the stage.

[@SamGVL08]

I literally commented right now saying exaclty what you said and thank you for putting into better words than I could. I was so mad and tired how rain could do that interview and say why did I produce them. I was furious at how you could say that after you said they were family you ruined their dreams and one of them had been training for 11 years and thanked him and rain had the audacity to say why did I produce them and I’m even more mad at he had the publicity to make ciipher huge a bunch of new fans had joined since boys planet and fantasy boys you just didn’t use it rain had a bunch of opportunities to make ciipher work but he didn’t I was gonna say black ocean but then I read the intro and was like oo no hate but I’m glad u mentioned it I feel guilty about idols who have received black oceans but this man I’m not guilty i hope he gets into his brain that he needs to stop producing groups and shut his mouth up because that interview should have never been aired

[@SamGVL08]

The black ocean I hope will drill into his mind that he ruined peoples dreams and over 20 of them. Three groups maybe more of talent wasted im sorry you had your success let others who have trained their whole lives but no they get waste because of mismanagement

[@naofg]

@@SamGVL08 Thank you! Yeah, I totally agree with you. I'm usually against black oceans, but in this case I'm totally behind it

[@SamGVL08]

@@naofg yea i feel sort of guilty but I know that he should feel guilty for all the things he’s done to so many people thank you for writing your comment! 🫶🏼

[@chenles_defender]

The way pH1 promoted Keita better than Rain, it's been 1 year and 3 months since Ciipher released Fame, at least give us a single song or something small?

[@4everlastingstarlight]

What annoys me most is people always forgive him. When he announced rain company and ciipher, so many MBLAQ fans were angry with him but people started calling us obsessed old fan and talked about how legendary rain is to kpop Netizens and pre-debut fans who haven't even seen MBLAQ or Madtown in their era called us idiots and tried to "educate" us about the group we stan. "Mblaq wanted to leave themselves stop blaming rain" "madtown members weren't in good terms it have nothing to do with jtune" "rain always called mblaq his kids but they left him" and so on.. But now when rain destroyed dreams of young artists, netizens are suddenly remembering jtune and how rain destroyed every group he made so far Even when we get angry to rain messing with trainees psychology just to boost his ego in the survival show the unit, people called us oversensitive and unable to understand industry. I just hope this time people learn rain is just not the almighty king some people believe. He might be a legendary artist and I respect his artistic personality but it doesn't mean he's the best human

[@oooo-cs9dw]

same like when ciipher fans were angry when he got announced to joining kcon line up, some people said that 4th gen fans have no respect to older gen 😂

[@meagain7669]

"Oh you just don't understand" these words get on my nerves

[@HopeeInk]

You don't even know how much I agree with this. They all had to see a promising group tank, before stop calling us crazy.

[@buzzy33]

Can i be honest that as soon as Keita (and Tag) appeared in Boys Planet and Hyunbin appeared in Fantasy Boys, i already know at the back of my mind that Rain Company will give up on them? :)) SO PLEASE- LET US FANS HAVE OUR FEELINGS VALIDATED TOO.

[@SamGVL08]

@@buzzy33 yea once I heard the news I was like ofc they did I expected it I felt it coming and what’s even sadder like mblaq fans or madtown supported ciipher and then to see them end up like them is just even sadder I’m mad at myself for expecting better from rain because I knew it would happen and it did

[@Moontess]

The impression I get of Rain is that he's a bit narcissistic - e.g. he loves attention (whether it's through his admittedly pretty perfect body or his talent or projects, etc), and even people who have worked with him in the past (such as Yoo Jaesuk) have laughingly said that he's "full of self-love" (and not in the same way as "self-compassion - but he REAAAALLY loves himself). You also get that feel when you watch his YT content, etc. Which is great when you're a solo artist. You need to be a bit obsessed with your own image, power and beauty and a bit deaf to others' opinions of you in order to make it that far as a soloist in Kpop (although I'm not saying all soloists are narcissistic). But it's a terrible trait to have when you're a CEO of a company and in charge of other people's dreams, especially vulnerable trainees or young artists who have no power/support behind them. Then it's a recipe for disaster. When things are no longer shiny and the narcissist doesn't get the attention he craves, then he moves on to the next shiny thing that will provide him with the adoration he expects. Rain is an awesome performer (one of the legends) but a horrible boss. I will never support him creating more boy groups.

[@elizabethbottroff1218]

Great constructive criticism. I love it. Well done.

[@multinsomnia5455]

This.

[@swagittarius5748]

When I watched The Unit I was a huge supporter of Daewon. The way he talked about his struggles and the hell he went through holding on to his dream, while still staying humble, generous and positive impressed me so much. I didn't know that Rain was part of Madtowns downfall back then but knowing this makes Daewon even more impressive to me, I really hope life will lead him onto flowery roads and he will get rewarded for all his hard work and kindness finally

[@gel_gel5863]

Omy gosh

[@alissonlabor2445]

OMG same! My jaw dropped when I realised there was a connection between Rain and Madtown('s demise). Angel Daewon was such a sweetheart in that show!

[@MayMay93]

It's like Rain sees his groups as competition when it's not supposed to be like that.

[@rd2440]

Rain is the Michael Jordan of kpop. Incredible performer but a below average strategist and manager. I think the MBLAQ move was probably defensible at the time with the potential military enlistment ahead. Putting the company within the broader JYP ecosystem is sound, but he did a poor job ensuring the right people were in place. I can see why more idols want to do start own companies, though. Most had minimal input (at least early in their careers) and your own agency offers freedom and the chance to create. If you fail, at least its on your own terms and not because of the whims of some dude in corporate.

[@NoobieChu]

I do agree with this comment. Although both are completely different things (sports and Kpop), they both have some similarities. In Micheal Jordan’s case, during the time he owned the Charlotte Hornets, it was mostly losing records, terrible players, horrible coaching, and terrible front office. With Rain’s case, there was terrible management, broken promises, and potential that is down the drain. Although we can admit that both are incredible at what they both did for their respective careers, as businessmen, they had inspirations to help people achieve their dreams and make it big, however instead poor decisions that was made led to people with ruined dreams and disappointed fans.

[@SamGVL08]

Rain had everything and managed to ruin it.

[@czenniesomnionce2119]

12:20 Those two former members of Madtown are way better than me because as soon as those words would have left Rain's mouth, my reaction wouldn't have been pretty and I would have gotten canceled because wtf, the audacity is beyond me-

[@SamGVL08]

Did you see the interview he did recently and what he said about Ciipher? 💧has always had the audacity.

[@SamGVL08]

I felt for bad for them they were literally homeless and they still stayed respectful after 💧 bullshit

[@dearyoongi]

honestly me too I would not have been able to control my face 😂

[@czenniesomnionce2119]

@@SamGVL08 Don't remind me cuz I was pissed abt that too

[@czenniesomnionce2119]

@@dearyoongi Fr

[@AlexWendlingwolfgirl]

MBLAQ is what got me into kpop and hated seeing them essentially vanish after smoky girl's release and the next time i heard anything lee joon and thunder left and then we only got the mirror mini album. im just glad that members have slowly found their own place in life to settle in. G.O is happy with his wife(and he might even have a child on the way last i checked, its been quite a while since i checked) and making youtube videos with her, and thunder is getting married. lee joon has also had a wonderful acting career. im not sure what mir and seungho have been up to but i hope they are doing well. i will likely never hear any of then sing again, but they are doing the best they can and i wish them the best.

[@7ornever]

I think seungho is starting to sing again 🖤 he's posted a bit on Instagram, a practice video and about a performance in Japan, etc. Just hope A+ can still be there to support him and encourage him to continue

[@blaqo]

Mir restarted his sister's career with his youtube channel and they have a Bang family youtube channel now. Over half million subscribers. Seung Ho has been doing musicals mostly.

[@-OBELUS-]

My first K Pop video was Big Bang's Fanstastic Baby (which scared me a little bit but have come to love it later) so I thought I'd try a different one. It was MBLQ Be A Man. I listened to it so many times I could sing along and I don't know Korean. I was devasted to find by the time I found them Lee Joon and Thunder were already leaving.

[@missb9103]

I had wondered what happened to the group Ciipher and now I know. Being an entertainer is hard. I have seen so many artist here in the US and around the world over the years being screwed over that it is heartbreaking. I feel for these young people trying to showcase their talent only to be stepped on like this. Unfortunately, no one ever said being an entertainer makes you a good person, they are not one in the same. I'm going to KCON LA next weekend and it will be interesting to see what happens at his performance.

[@dearyoongi]

you're absolutely right! It's extremely hard out there as it is for young people trying to make it in the industry without having to face adversities like these too (I hope you have an amazing time at KCON btw!)

[@HopeeInk]

It's literally always about Rain, love him, but this man has a deep routed problem when it comes to inflating his ego. It's his little project, his little group, his kids and all that only as long as it benefits him.

[@eviesakura9057]

Even his youtube channel, he brings idols for interviews but he doesn’t even try to know them prior to them coming and will mostly center around his reactions and not the idols.

[@dearyoongi]

I definitely get this vibe too! :(

[@violetthunter]

Thank you for this. It's so upsetting to see what happened to Ciipher. I've been with them since pre-debut and I really thought they could make it. I'm certain they would've been very successful if RainCompany had promoted them better. I always felt like Rain wanted to be another JYP and just failed over and over again

[@nikolnolastname4473]

Rain was trash to his groups. MBLAQ and Madtown were amazing and deserved better.

[@flyingtothepinksky]

as a predebut clue it's just so heartbreaking seeing them go on this path because of the company but somehow i'm not that surprised ,like i don't know if i'm the only one but i've always felt like rain never really let them shine on their own and took their opportunities to promote himself...i watched a lot of their content and i know that they always work hard on their skills and they also write their own songs...also not only their talent was wasted but they work so well as a group and honestly i rlly love them sm i wish them the best.

[@Haifa386]

I agree with, this has been my opinion on this for a while just because an idol has decided to create a company doesn't means they will be good CEOs, it doesn't mean they would treat their idols differently than other companies because they experienced the idol life no, they should easily have this is what went to be successful so that is also what you have go through or are simply I will try my best if it doesn't work oh well, it doesn't mean they aren't thinking of their idol. Idols are entertainers yes they have an idea of how it is but they don't know everything, they only one dimension of ranning the shows behind the scene.

[@cookiepie9]

Thank you for making a video on this! Will never be not angry on how MBLAQ was treated. And MADTOWN was such a promising group with great songs. The way that Daewon and Lee Geon were on that show broke my heart hearing what they went through. Was so happy Daewon got to re-debut with UNB but then disappointed again on the lack of good promotions. Now hearing about CIIPHER is so freaking wild. That they let him repeat his actions and create a new group just to badly manage them is so frustrating.

[@Kaije]

I have really only ever heard of MBLAQ and Ciipher, but I think the saddest part of this entire video was hearing about what happened to Mad Town. As i only started listening to kpop in 2018 I never got the chance to experience MBLAQ or Mad Town but just watching Rain be so indifferent to the two former members of Mad Town and more than likely knowing where yhey came from just makes me so unbelievably sad and angry. And I remember watching Boys Planet and remembering how much I adored Keita just to see what happened with Ciipher also makes me so sad and so angry. I was so excited to start stanning Ciipher and Rain ruined that. All i can hope for moving forward is that the Ciipher boys actually get to have their careers and they don't have to struggle like the groups before them did.

[@SamGVL08]

I haven’t even watched the video but the moment I found out that 4 members were leaving. I was furious because I had seen the mismanagement of ciipher since their last comeback of Fame. I had seen the neglect of their group when keita was in bp and when Hyunbin entered fantasy boys. I went on a rampage on my insta stories about how rain could do that. I then saw that he did an interview about how much he invested in the group and said I could’ve bought a house why did I produce these guys. I was livid. I was mad at how rain could even say that he crushed their dreams and the fact that one of them had trained for 11 years and he thanked Rain. And rain had the audacity to say that. He is getting a black ocean at kcon and I feel guilty but he ruined 7 peoples dream and I then found out it wasn’t his first time im done and tired with him

[@SamGVL08]

It’s also the fact I expected it I expected them to not go anywhere and since 3 are left it is still not gonna go anywhere kieta is in evnne for idk how long and they released a statment about solo projects that is a bunch of bullshit a year after no activity and you say we are planning to reorganize the group bullshit

[@gwenmloveskpopcecmore]

Not just Ciipher but he ruined 3 groups

[@SamGVL08]

@@gwenmloveskpopcecmore oh i know I got even more mad once I found out isn’t wasn’t his first time

[@kingtaeyeonie7908]

i think what makes the difference of kpop idols creating companies not with the intention of solely being a one person agency is their own career plans: lee sooman, jinyoung park and yang hyunsuk were pretty much “through” with being on stage releasing own albums and rather wanted to focus on helping other artists and managing the company. so does psy. they did occasionally still do something, but 95% of their energy went into their companies. meanwhile rain knew from the beginning that he wanted to actively continue his career too. thats what, in my opinion, pretty much set his companies up for failure.

[@meagain7669]

Helping other artists? Lsm robbed his artists & run away

[@bongbongdrrr7682]

@@meagain7669 he created modern slavery but at the same time he succeeded as amusician/producer and at promoting and managing idols

[@ystrw]

Well, if by energy you mean constantly criticizing, mistreating, rejecting dozens of songs on 10 seconds of listening-time, refusing to properly promote...? I think LSM and JYP stepped off the stage only because they had to (and let's face it, JYP was constantly stepping right back onto it throughout Got7's contract) and they bitterly resented and the idea that the boy groups they were overseeing might be more successful than them. So they actively took steps to prevent that from happening. The failure to promote well, when they had so much opportunity and power to do so, says everything- especially in light of JYP's *constant* promotion of all the girl groups.

[@HailToTheMeep]

“Helping other artists” 💀 No. They want to make MONEY. Especially LSM.

[@sugasinfireration5863]

Yeah, of course. Like we all do when we do our job. Doesn’t mean they don’t want to help, right? The point is that they were ready to let other artists take the spotlight while Rain obviously cares more about his own career and wants the spotlight for himself.

[@reila15]

I really used to love MBLAQ. One of the first kpop group I got into. Not only talented in dancing, singing and rapping but also very funny. Episodes of Hello baby with them are gold.

[@kingtaeyeonie7908]

i will never forgive what happened with madtown. i loved these guys so much, seeing them being ruined hurt me deeply. edit; i agree so much with your view and opinion on them 😭💞💞

[@odd6088]

Same😭

[@dearyoongi]

omg I felt the exact same im so glad somebody can relate! 😭❤️

[@linwithluv]

i really need keita to leave that shit company after evnne is over and tbh i need hyunbin and hwi to follow suit. Rain company will continue to be a hell hole since they dont seem to have any sort of plan for them. It's infuriating.

[@duchessofpotatoland]

Funny how this video is recommended to me. I've long been holding grudges towards Rain for his negligence in his own companies particularly regarding J. Tune Camp (MBLAQ was the first group that introduced me to kpop along with 2NE1 in 2009). The guy is obsessed to make new projects just to show off and abandon it shortly after when things don't show fast progresses, he wants quick results instead of fixing the issues that arise and he let inexperienced staffs to handle the important matters smfh. He's the last person you want to see if you want to be a successful trainee (that thrives in the long run). I still remember vividly how Lee Joon of MBLAQ really looked up to him as a mentor and he disappointed him and the rest of the members by abandoning them. They were on their way to the top with their early day releases when Rain decided to sell his shares to JYP. Even under JYPE care, MBLAQ didn't get the best treatment and they slowly faded into the background. My heart aches and boiled with anger whenever I remember how mistreated they were at J.Tune. When MBLAQ debuted, they & BEAST (now HIGHLIGHT) were often compared and seen as rivals due to their debut being only a day apart, also they released darn good tracks for a rookie. What's not to love about them. While Cube went all in for BEAST and they were making a name for themselves, MBLAQ didn't get enough promotion from the company. People are attracted to the group because it's made by Rain but that's as far as it goes. The selling point is his name, not the group's talent or anything. Their talent is overshadowed is Rain when they had such big potentials to make it big. (Fun fact : G.O went head-to-head with Taeyeon of SNSD in a nationwide singing competition when they were still in school, she won and he was second, that shows how damn good of a vocalist he is). Seems like he's repeating history all over again with Ciipher smfh. It's cringy to see RAIN goes on interviews bragging how he met these artists and how he consider them as family and his little brothers and would support them to the end when he just takes an exit whenever he feels like it. Family my ass, he only sees them as pawns that are easily replaceable. Sadly, that's how the entertainment industry work and kpop is ruthless. His words are nothing but cheap promises. He might be a good performer on stage but he's a shitty figurehead, he lacks the determination to push through tough times. All he did is giving up or selling his shares for more profit. Sure, it is business but you also gotta remember that you're responsible for the people working under you. The last person I'd put my trust in is this guy. I just learned that Ciipher has lost its 4 members. Losing that many members in just a couple of years is already a big red flag. The company should be made for himself instead, why he got to ruin another group's big future. It's already 2023, Jung Ji Hoon and you still haven't learned! You should just keep being a performer, stay away from the office!!

[@SamGVL08]

Ciipher boys have been through everything and continued to go through it until departure. I hope they find success and hope somewhere else and if they leave the industry I would want to thank them for all they have put since debut. I love and really wish the best for them . I also hope MBLAQ and MADTOWN members are doing well and finding success in other places. I am so angry at how many people dreams got crushed because of a single company that couldn’t mange his artiste.

[@mxm7647]

He is good at his own career and that's it. I always thought he wasn't cut out for running a label with other groups. He just can't do it and it's fine. The trick is to know when to stop. What I think he could be good at though is a trainee academy of sorts. He can be good at scouting trainees and providing training and then promoting them to companies who will actually debut them. I don't think he tried that approach before. JYP obviously managed to do it so I can't say it's impossible but I think it depends on the person. PSY seems to be trying so I'll see with that one. Zico's KOZ Ent. debuted its first group so I'm keeping an eye on Boy Next Door, hoping Zico knows what he is doing. Highlight's Around Us Ent. debuted a boy group called The Wind so I am also observing how they deal with them. Hope they all do better than Rain did.

[@victorlarryesmenda2805]

I'm tired of 14 years olds debuting 😢

[@lisaadams7339]

Rain promotes himself more than his group. Like he’s even going to perform at Kcon be fr. Psy is trying with TNX but same with Rain they outshine their artists. And don’t promote them anywhere,They need to promote them more, events like KCON are good to make the group known to international fans, things like hello82, will&Ben show, KBS shows, Mnet Reality shows( something like what XG and ZB1 did, to discover each member’s personality a little more ), behind the scenes vlogs, dance covers, Magazines covers, interviews like buzzfeed, Seventeenmag, etc.. Rain had the opportunity but failed to do so. Again it’s just a lack of management and lack of professionalism inside the company. They need to hire people who graduate in certain fields and are able to do their jobs.

[@gwenmloveskpopcecmore]

Nah F’real they’re doing the same thing with their groups but Ciipher’s situation is much worse

[@yooyoyoyoyo243]

Keita was one of my picks in boys planet and I was devastated that he didn't make it but I'm happy that he will shine elsewhere. Rain doesn't deserve him or the rest of the Ciipher members

[@ffbeexaid4509]

He’s going to debut in another group with a few other Boys planet contestants right?

[@plantadelbosque]

i disagree with the idea of idols not being able to become CEO Especially if they were part of a group, as they will know the inner workings, have connections and so on However, they do need a very strong team to help them handle the part they are not well versed in (finances, staffing, etc). While no proper idols, 3 of the four founders of the Big 4 were music artists before founding their companies, so I really don't think it is a bad thing per se, the how they do it is the key in my opinion

[@MeruHina]

I know this video is focused on boy groups and Rain, but can anyone give a like to remember our girls from Two X as well? I LOVED them so much and was so excited for them but they were also part of the bad JTune management curse 😢 I haven't forgotten about you girls, not a single day!

[@drunkoffjuiceboxes]

"DOUBLE UP" AND "RING MA BELL" WERE BOPS. They should have definitely went further!!!

[@kingtaeyeonie7908]

tag in fact also participated on a rap / hip hop survival show “high school rapper 4” in 2021. he was eliminated in the first elimination round, but received a good amount of praise and wasn’t criticized as “idol rapper”, unlike other idols that participated in the series (mark, hwiyoung & win)

[@MimiiiPuff]

As a hardcore MBLAQ stan back in the day, if you get sued for this video, I will be sending checks for your legal team. 😤😂

[@HopeeInk]

We gonna start a gofundme 😂

[@dearyoongi]

ahah phew thank you so much!😂

[@dearyoongi]

you guys are the best, thank you ahah!!

[@quodee]

Rain really sucks. Headline says Rain debuts new group but that's it.. he's just gonna debut them but won't manage them properly.

[@RobbyU712]

I hate to see this happen to such promising groups. At least with a newer group like Kiss of Life, their creative director, Lee Hae In, who is a former idol, seems to have a grasp of how to manage them and looks to be a good support for their group so far. Rain is a great performer and artist, just totally sh**ty at being a manager & running a label or company. Great video as always, keep it up, Fran! 💖🥰✌️

[@msmalice6007]

actually another coincidence of rain and mismanaged groups is clc and madtown promoted on the same show when clc debuted in 2015. rain was under cube when clc debuted and was involved in their debut by choreographing the chorus of pepe. as you probably know clc's debut was terribly handled by cube (no one even knew they were a cube group because their only pre-debut activities were busking to raise money for charity, some youtube videos, and one uniform ad pre-debut) and was only the start of years of neglect and mistreatment

[@seriousleh]

people often forget the only gg that they debuted (Two X) which debuted in 2012 consisting of 5 members and had a comeback after 1 year after their debut only to enter a hiatus and change companies in 2016 with one member leaving, during which time they would do their last comeback as of now. The problem with them was that they weren't promoted that much (also their short discography made them perform for much less time) and that they were mainly relying on the popularity of their rapper maknae (because she appeared alongside VIXX's N on a show)

[@Dearest_Kenyetta]

I love Lee Joon as an actor.... He has gone on to do very well for himself.

[@jarmoni727]

he learned tons from JYP, and obviously he just couldn't let go of being RAIN the idol performer yet....

[@eddiegardner7]

Thank you for making this video!! I really hope more people will get aware of this as I’m tired of Rain coasting of his success from years ago and thus never facing any consequences!

[@lunasuji]

You mentioned The Unit briefly and I wish you'd expanded more into how SHIT of a mentor he was on that show. Clear favoritism towards certain contestants (B.I.G.'s Gunmin even called him out to his face for it), revealing people's sensitive information during auditions recording (that thankfully was cut for airing), cruelty and demeaning treatment (his general treatment of unit G, his behavior to the Chained Up/Stay team), etc. I wouldn't be surprised if this treatment extended to the groups he worked with off camera like Ciipher.

[@5autumndream]

You mentioning NU’EST made me cry ngl … those are my favorites ever and keita is now basically my favorite esp after boys planet. My heart hurts for all three groups.

[@shemoww]

Thank you so much for making this video, as you said I know that making this video won’t change anything but sharing those stories is the least we could do as fans. I just hope that all those artists are doing better now❤

[@dearyoongi]

thank you so much! Me too 🥺💖

[@v.v.9.9.]

I've always wanted a deep dive on this topic!!! Thank youuu 🙏

[@dearyoongi]

you're welcome, thank you so much for watching!

[@Jeannette311]

I’ve only been a K-pop fan for 12 years but always found Rain off-putting but could never put my finger on why. He’s disappointing.

[@sunset2713]

Finally, I was waiting for this video 😊

[@dearyoongi]

thank you so much for waiting!💖

[@ray101892]

He also started a fashion line called six to five which failed horribly because it was overpriced shit that was supposedly designed by him but looked like off the rack clothes.

[@steppingbackwards]

Rain does not need to manage any more kpop groups. I didn’t get into ciipher. I was inbetween Madtown & MBLAQ. But, when both groups broke up. I was so heartbroken, but knew despite that, they would continue being successful in their own careers.

[@meagain7669]

Makes me excited to see what zico does with his new group I hope it all goes well

[@MrSuperjam789]

Probably helps that his label is part of HYBE, so there's support there.

[@HopeeInk]

Don't have much trust in him, but in HYBE.

[@athraaabdali9817]

See zico actually promote his group and give them freedom to do what they want if you know zico very well and what he been through you will not say that and also boy next door songs is very zico like you can know that zico produced it like the rap you can know that he helped and love them a lot. He's working and trying so hard, he produced X1 song move and helped them in the show and he knows their names and was very professional go see how he was with them And YEAH go watch block b zico group been through you will not believe what that company did and read the comments you will know more and zico went through what these groups been through like CEO run away with block b money they worked so hard to get and he commented suicide and parents helping with clothes, food and everything GO WATCH WHAT HAPPENED TO BLOCK B .ZICO DID A LOT OF THINGS FOR HIS GROUP and he also very professional so if boy next door failed or something happen don't think that zico was the problem and didn't care about them he's actually working so hard for them he's not like rain. I can't call myself fan of boy next door I checked them and saw their songs because of zico their songs is a bop and they are so cute so I'm hoping they get popular and have an amazing career in the future. I saw a video about them walking in the street and people recognise and know them so I think they are popular right now SORRY FOR THE LONG COMMENT and English is not my first language

[@athraaabdali9817]

Zico was in a very small company and so many companies was offering him to sign with them but he refused and stays loyal to his group he worked so hard to be what he is now. He work a lot he doesn't leave his studio So if something happens to boy next door I will not blame him and I hope people don't hate him and blaming him for everything he has so many haters and not bad person he actually very stong I'm a huge fan of him so that why I replied so sorry for the long comment I just wanted to let you know

[@vivianamaugo6555]

For Zico's case I think it will go well with BND, cos they are being managed by HYBE, and that's one serious company if I may say so.

[@zanelewar8429]

This is painful, but I'm thankful you shared this information

[@naurrr]

he did indeed get pretty much a black ocean at kcon 2023 lmao there's videos showing it now he deserves to feel ashamed for what he's done to these young men. he's such a narcissist.

[@staylovingyedam3613]

I got into madtown after they had disbanded and later found out about the whole thing. I stuck around for ciipher because of won since I’ve been a fan of him since under 19, but when I saw that rain was involved my heart sank. I can’t help but feel like rain really doesn’t care about anyone but himself. Won deserved better :( they all do

[@shiranaytyk3331]

I saw signs of Ciipher falling apart their last comeback, it was my first comeback since becoming a stan, even though I knew them since debut, I was so excited I even preordered both of the versions and the sign that was the most heartbreaking was the NFT event. There was a pamphlet that was an invite to an NFT event, I was very confused when I saw it on the website, but when I finally got it, that's when I understood that Rain was doing something bad to the group.

[@annanapel5972]

Can you explain how the NFT event was a sign of Ciipher falling apart? I don't know much about NFTs sorry

[@shiranaytyk3331]

@@annanapel5972 NFTs are just a picture, you pay a lot of money for a link with a picture. Also minting (creating) NFTs creates a lot of waste, they're really bad for the environment. Plus they're just so ugly, they're sold under the pretense of being this "non-fungible token", one of a kind piece of art, but they're all the same, something you'd create in a flash game. They just feel like a cashgrab.

[@CookieEspresso]

You were way too nice at the end. Honestly, he simply just didn't care, it's even worse than bad management, sounds like there were barely any management from him at all. Rain would have been better off as an investor by listening to this. I'm suprised how immature and selfish he sounds from this video. Very disappointed in him now, there is zero excuse for messing up these kids dream.

[@deb4908]

You’re right, your video won’t change a thing but it had to be said. Thank you.

[@kokorohiro2430]

FINALLY SOMEONE COVERED THIS TOPIC!!

[@nathanscore]

i had no idea madtown ciipher and mblaq's downfall were all his doing.... i loved madtown in like 2014 and mblaq seemed like a beloved group with a very devoted fandom :(

[@anitalake1]

Rain is a narcissist just like his mentor how can he do this it's trash I loved rain but this this is unforgivable Those kids deserved better 🤬😡

[@HeyitsEm18]

MBLQ was one of the first groups I got into. I didn’t trust Rain when he started with Madtown and I didn’t even try with Ciipher because I knew he would screw them over. I was actually a fan of Tan because he had trained with Monsta X (my ults) I refused to watch I-Land because of him as a judge. As a performer I think Rain is brilliant. As a producer/mentor/ceo, he’s utter garbage.

[@HectorH-M]

Now Ciipher lost 4 of it's 7 members.

[@nicoleloss7987]

Sad

[@shinwonderboy]

“i’m gonna be a bad boy” yeah a bad manager

[@GabrielaBorbon]

So basically he ruined 4 groups....😢

[@odd6088]

Thats why i never expect anything whenever rain try to create kpop group😐

[@dearyoongi]

unfortunately me neither after everything that has happened :(

[@Sheepy16able]

Since I started to like kpop, i always wondered how it is possible that every stupid single person out there can start their own management. In my country, it`s very very hard to start an own business because of all the paperwork you have to do. But in Korea it seems too easy. I also think just because you are an artist and you know how the industry works, it doesn`t mean you also know how to manage others. Rain is a perfect example what happens when you prioritize yourself over your artists and his "joke" in the uni.t survivalshow you mentioned in the video made me so angry "didn`t your company care about you?". no because you left them homeless. Oh my gosh he really thought he ate with this "joke". Now I can understand why my wattpad community wasn`t amused at all when Rain announced a new boygroup.

[@jojoloh5867]

Yes! Just like daniel kang When he just started his new konnect as ceo Poor guy, so young and gets so much mental torture, rumours etc... then with his dating with jijyo. All shut down. That makes him gets into depressions. Poor young guy.

[@Judy.is.here1]

Rain just let it rain with his groups.

[@thekeytomyheart_]

I saw the outcome of CIIPHER when they announced their debut. Rain will never learn.

[@AM-sx5bt]

Hope Keita will leave this company.

[@SamGVL08]

I hope the 3 left leave the company because I know they aren’t getting solo activities like the statement said I cannot believe that after a year of no activity

[@gwenmloveskpopcecmore]

He already left but I don’t think an announcement was made

[@CK_Loves_Tea]

Well Hell. It’s almost like education & experience are helpful when running a business 🙀 Beautiful video, thank you

[@Jakeein]

Rain is a good artist not a CEO. He truly do not have time to manage a company.

[@SamGVL08]

Thank you for this video!

[@dearyoongi]

thank you for watching! ❤️

[@SamGVL08]

@@dearyoongi thank you for speaking up about this and rain and company mismanagement to so many artists im glad it hasn’t and never will go unnoticed by so many fans who loved madtown mblaq and ciipher

[@spectral__]

G.O has been so happy with his lovely wife (they post a lot on Insta), that I'm actually glad things turned out this way for MBLAQ. The other former members seem to be happy as well, but G.O was my bias. He tried doing KZbin covers for a while, but they didn't get much attention. Then I think he just gave up. He's basically retired lol

[@QuibieGG]

Thank you so much for this video. I loved MADTOWN. I still do. But, being an older KPop fan, I haven't had time to follow the industry, so I didn't know they were connected to Rain.

[@evamariafloresgranados5041]

He also looks like he doesn’t care and has 0 empathy for those groups

[@sylvieschmitt-morel864]

Everyone can't wear several hats, especially the one of CEO, Rain didn't put all his guts into the creation and evolution of Cipher, you can't be in the oven and in the mill at the same time... ..Rain has to admit he's a bad CEO, he destroyed his trainee's…..😢

[@travelw.b12oo3]

Rain is just jealous that the focus will be diverted to the group! He does not actually intend to let the group make there own name!

[@vivianamaugo6555]

Clearly the guy, Rain has no clue about managing an agency. He wants to be a CEO and still be an active idol, it doesn't work that way. Even the so called JYPE has the same problem himself. Why give hope to young aspiring children and dash it in under one year. That's not fair at all.

[@herroyalawkwardness954]

Keita has so much potential. Damn, i hope he gets into a good company and group

[@shapinaak]

This is such a great video!!

[@dearyoongi]

Thank you so much!💖

[@GeminiShazza]

His ego is too big for others to take the thunder away from him? He has forgotten his roots, and how the boys that trusted him might have come from the same situation as him. He is an awful person.

[@dearyoongi]

that's a really great point, he himself comes from a boy group background who struggled to succeed in the beginning so you think he'd be understanding of how it must feel:(

[@mimilili6568]

As a huge fan of Mblaq, I was so heartbroken when they disbanded! They had so much potential! What I have noticed in Rain, he is just stingy af even though he is the richest! I still remember instead of hiring an actress for Ciphers mv he put his actress wife Kim Taehee in teenage boys' MV!🤦🏻‍♀️

[@HailToTheMeep]

You are right. Just because you are a successful artist doesn’t mean you will be a successful business executive. Not that it is impossible. LSM was never a great artist, YG found G Dragon and that was the extent of his success, while JYP is probably the closest to a good balance of both even though he was never a successful artist. Great video! Thank you!

[@kguerr197]

LSM managed to find talented and hard working artists that are legendary names now. He was a performer before he founded SM tho. He had a vision for his artists and they became famous. You can hate LSM but don't make the mistake of thinking his artists aren't top notch in the industry. Without him, there would be no K Pop at all.

[@HailToTheMeep]

@@kguerr197 Hate? This is my personal opinion. You don’t have to agree with me. But you have no right to judge my opinion as hate. I know this type of simpleton argument is common in kpop fandoms. Please don’t use that with me. In the real world you’ll be laughed out of the room talking like that.

[@garaliyaaaa3321]

Jyp was never a successful artist?😂like what?

[@thecatinthepowermv]

Saying JYP was never a successful artist is quite naive

[@mappaeliphas8885]

I just clicked and really want to watch, but I have to work in three houra lol. I promise to watch tomorrow during lunch 👀

[@ezirconiese]

Jota was such a sweetheart in wgm

[@gwenmloveskpopcecmore]

Yeah also Tag I think had basically disappeared and his last appearance was 5-6 months ago in Ciipher so he left long before the announcement

[@g-malaigo1155]

Honestly .. Rain, whether he admits it or not... is the destroyer of these young men who they put their trust in him. He is what a *1/2azz* doer... he doesn't know how to complete something he started, he just knows how to get it started & push it onto others to do the rest of the work. I've seen Rain in K-dramas & his music video's. He's not bad on acting & his mv's well... not my kind of genre anyway. He should stick to what he knows & stop trying to be someone that only makes others lives harder. I hope the young men that put their trust into Rain .. have learned, that just because the person is famous.. doesn't necessarily mean they will have your best interest at heart... because 9 out of 10 they are only thinking about themselves when it comes to business!!!

[@Vor567tez]

If this is the condition of the people we see on screen I wonder how it went for the staffs and other employees.

[@GachaTifa]

There was time when one of the mblaq members had to do double-duty as their manager too - they were severely understaffed all the time

[@HokageTaeyeon]

Banger video, liked and subbed

[@tikachu86]

I agree, a lot of people who have been successful under someone else's management think that they can do the same for other artists. Being an entrepreneur is waaay different and much more difficult and draining than working for other people.

[@kimble90126]

Used to have a girl group called two x

[@soomi]

I remember Two X. Amazing girls, sadly they weren't given a proper chance

[@gbabyg451]

Was about to say this too

[@Ara.Sakura]

I just have to ask if anyone remembers that show when MBLAQ said (not very long after debut) they had cockroaches in their dorm... the same group whose name includes "Live in Absolute Quality". And the fact that one of the Madtown members was originally a member of MBLAQ (and even recorded their debut song) so he'd been training in J.tune from before Rain backed out. Also the girl group Two X from their company who were completely overlooked. And tbh Rain used MBLAQ/Lee Joon more to promote his movie Ninja Assassin, rather than using his name to promote them. Like other people have said, the "big 3" are former idols too. And tbh JYP seems as if he craves the spotlight, and YG appears as if he likes the power. SM generally gives an omniscient vibe as we heard of him more than saw him. It's one thing to want full creative control over your career and power over your life, but when they turn it into a company they're putting others' careers/lives in their hands. As people who have been in the industry for decades, they SHOULD know the struggles of a trainee and be more sympathetic. But some people want money, others want to stay relevant, and some honestly think they can/will do a good job but are too stubborn and/or selfish to see the full picture and realise the problems.

[@aimee0-1]

Imagine if Keita had made it in zb1. That would have been an awkward meeting at kcon

[@gwenmloveskpopcecmore]

Nah F’real

[@SamGVL08]

I wish he just sold his company to another person than an inexperienced business owner.

[@fritzde9585]

Rain is a total wrecked in management.

[@ClaudeVon24]

I didnt know rain was the one who make mblaq and madtown fall this bad . Now im mad i love this groups so bad in my high schools years😞 i still listen to them till this day😔

[@bitterseaasmr]

Unrelated to the video but this is the first video I've seen of your channel and let me say, when I saw Miso in your intro I knew I had to subscribe.

[@dearyoongi]

OMG somebody who knows Miso?! thank you so much, I just had to appreciate her somehow 😭

[@MrBazpt]

Did he even studied entertainment management or anything similar? Rather than a group he should've work on solo artists, like little by little, in the end... The solo artist life is what he knows