How The Klingons Invented Photon Torpedoes (The Arsenal)

[@Slavir_Nabru]

I'd expect almost everyone, perhaps excluding the Romulans, to have independently come up with photon/photonic torpedoes. It's a guided missile with an antimatter payload, they use antimatter to fuel their reactors, it's not rocket science (except in the literal sense)! Shaping the charge, adding a warp sustainer drive, and improving the guidance systems are just the natural iterations of that basic premise, anyone using antimatter ought to come up with it if there's a need.

[@Clenched.Cheeks]

My thoughts exactly.

[@lanebowles8170]

I agree.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yep. But the klingons were at the forefront of its development.

[@neganrex5693]

I thought Rumulans invented it to but maybe I was wrong. Anyway that is what I heard on another cannon if I remember right.

[@neganrex5693]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 If they can go warp speed a can't understand how we can see them coming out. That is far faster than a bullet coming out of a gun. Maybe they can control the speed they want in short range. Kind of like how do they have fire in airless space. Anyway who cares because it's TV and fun to watch.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Let’s be honest The TMP Klingon PT is the BEST weapon FX in Star Trek. That distinctive and bellicose BARK it makes after the menacing growl of the tube being charged was amazing. Edit: also this reminds me of the Sabaton Song “the future of Warfare”. BORN IN FACTORIES, DELIVERED BY ENGINEERS, IMMUNE TO THE POINT DEFENCES OF THE REGULAR STARSHIP, UNBOTHERED BY THE DEFLECTOR SHIELD, THE PHOTON TORPEDO, THE FUTURE OF WARFARE!

[@cross3052]

I agree. One of the first mods I did on Star Trek Armada was to change the weapon sounds. The Klingon torpedoes in vanilla armada sound like some kind of air leak. I needed them to sound like they did in TMP. Much more satisfactory.

[@franklin1341]

"... & the klingons said basically fuck that noise!" lmao

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Klingons: TORPEDOES GO BARK!!!

[@TheDuck632]

I going to share this with my Dad. He got me into Trek and loves stuff like this.

[@MandoMTL]

I never would have guessed it by virtue of them stealing warp tech. Then again, weapon development would be right up their alley as opposed to propulsion.

[@tullyDT]

Great video. In my head cannon to account for the disproportionately larger opening for the torpedo launchers on Klingon ship there was an apparatus that enhanced the torpedoes as they were being launched making them appear larger too.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah we only see the federation torpedo. The klingon torpedo might be a larger caliber.

[@thanqualthehighseer]

They might have wrapped each torpedo with a plasma field to protect against laser point defences or Klingon launchers are less efficient and excess exhaust gasses from the launcher adheres to the torpedo making it appear larger.

[@jonmcgee6987]

Interesting, guess I never knew this since I'd seen only one episode of Enterprise. It does make sense considering the design of their ships.

[@rede2right]

Klingon's first use of Photon torpedoes was in the TMP. They changed Canon with Enterprise to help the story.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah. I know resurrected starships d7 doesn't have a launcher.

[@warrenreid6109]

That was the main difference between the d7 and the k'tinga.

[@Trojanponey]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Yea I love the theory but I really think the OG idea was for the Klingons to develop Photon Torpedoes in response to Starfleet using them during the 4 Year War. Still, love the idea of deadlock warfare that's pretty cool.

[@ThatsMrPencilneck2U]

I was only 13 when ST TMP came out. I never could imagine how the nose torpedo worked.

[@paulbeaney4901]

The rail gun launching system actually makes sense, when you see just how limited the torpedo firing ark is. This never made sense to me in the past as im my mind a torpedo firing ark should be 360 degrees as they are in space and the torpedo can maneuver.

[@jimskywaker4345]

It also makes the into darkness torpedo launchers somewhat less stupid.

[@keirfarnum6811]

Is that like Noah’s Ark? 😁 Excuse my nerdiness. It’s “arc.”

[@randomobserver8168]

That's what's needed- something one can just pound away with until the enemy dies one way or another. Magic turn of phrase.

[@geraldford6409]

Awesome tech analysis This is what Real Trek fandom is all about

[@occultatumquaestio5226]

So the militarist warrior space empire is the one that invented that weapon. When one thinks about it, the idea the the Klingons built it does make logical sense. Also I still wonder why it's called a "Photon torpedo" if it use antimatter instead of photons?

[@shanenolan8252]

I always thought thought it was a reference to a faster than light weapon system ? Photon as in light. Photograph ect

[@glennlaroche1524]

They're called photon torpedoes because photons are actually the main by-product of a matter/antimatter reaction, aside from the destructive shockwave. Thus the original TOS special effect of a torpedo detonation basically being just a super-bright ball of light/photons is actually more scientifically accurate than the later0series fireball-type explosions.

[@TimothyChapman]

​@@glennlaroche1524 There's no shockwave in space (at least not as we think of them). You're probably going to get a huge dose of gamma radiation from a matter/antimatter reaction though.

[@glennlaroche1524]

@@TimothyChapman Didn't necessarily mean a conventional atmospheric shockwave, but I take your point.

[@balrighty3523]

@Timothy Chapman According to the TNG tech manual at least, that's exactly what it does. The main byproduct of a photon torpedo explosion are high-energy gamma photons, and that's where the name comes from.

[@Todd.P]

One should note that in Star Trek TOS, the Klingons only used disrupter bolts firing from their nacelles; the fore/aft torpedo launchers were an invention of the movies. It wasn't until Star Trek -- Enterprise, that any reference to the Klingons having photon torpedoes in the pre-Excelsior (TOS) era. I'm really not sure that's what Gene Roddenberry had in mind.....

[@warrenreid6109]

The D7 was designed to use the disruptor as it's primary weapon. It wasn't until the advanced D7 aka the k'tinga which converted back to the photon torpedo as the primary weapon.

[@MrAranton]

As far as TOS is concerned, I'm an "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence kind of guy". TOS was created with a very tight budget and the technology available to create visual effects was pretty limited and cost an arm and a leg. A lot of space footage was re-used over and over again because creating new, slightly different footage, when existing material was "close enough" just wasn't financially feasable. I can imagine conversations like this happening: "Then the Klingon ship fires a photon torpedo..." "We don't have the money to shoot that, can't we just use the footage of Klingon ship firing disruptors?" "Sigh; we'll change the dialogue. But I'm NOT liking it." For all we know Roddenberry may have intended Klingon ships to have both disruptor and photon torpedos, but only got around to show the audience the disruptors. For that reason I don't think the idea that they had torpedoes is canon-breaking, even though they're never shown on screen. The fact that TOS didn't show the Enterprise firing a photon torpedo until episode 19 doesn't mean the ship didn't have photon torpedo prior to that; Kirk just never chose to use them before then. The same reasoning can be applied to Klingons: That they chose to fire disruptors does not prove they don't have torpedoes.

[@ThatsMrPencilneck2U]

Matt Jefferies designed the original, and said he fell asleep when he saw ST TMP. He had been working on Star Trek Phase II, and as it had been decided that Photon Torpedoes were warp drive fuel weapons, he was the one that put the Enterprise's torpedo deck on top of the engineering hull. Just imagine how excited he must have been when he saw that somebody moved the Klingon's main armament to the command hull.

[@shanenolan8252]

Cheers. Yes i agree they invented it , but the seem to have fallen behind with a lack of rapidity. Federation vessels fire them much faster. ( launchers ) or number of tubes

[@neganrex5693]

That's because the Klingons stick with weapons that will give them a glories death. That's crazy, brave to the point of stupid Klingons for you. LOL.

[@franksmedley8619]

Hello Venom. I find it interesting that the same solution covers two universe's weapons. The Photon Torpedo became a 'real' weapon once it's electromagnetic systems were 'beefed up' to allow the field to 'pinch' the yield into a 'beam' like pathway, instead of the spherical of the 'old' design. The Honor Harrington novels by David Weber use nuclear charges to empower rods of hafnium to emit X-Ray lasers. To increase the yield, a 'collar' of gravity lenses is used to 'pinch' the nuclear yield into a 'gaussian' cone of effect that projects far more energy to the lasing rods. Although each use different methods to do the 'pinch' effect, both use that effect to increase the yield of the weapon. So similar concepts, differing technologies used to create the effect.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

When did weber write his novels. Might have been the same time as roddenberry and co

[@franksmedley8619]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 : Nope... Weber wrote the first of the 17+ novels in 1993. Gene started his pitch in hollywood back in the 60's

[@cross3052]

One of the most interesting things about any kind of technical development is that sometimes it is accidentally duplicated at almost the exact same time. Not all of the details just the basic "problem, reaction, solution" path. So, while the Klingons may have developed THEIR photon torpedo first that doesn't mean that anyone else didn't do the same thing at almost time without even knowing what the other is up to. Oh, and heat rounds do not create a jet of gas which penetrates target armor. The inverted cone is made of metal which the cone shape when detonated is turned inside out at a velocity of 10000 fps or more depending on whatever explosive is being used. At these velocities and pressures the metal acts almost like a fluid but is never melted and certainly not vaporized. This metal then impacts the armor at a velocity still wwaayy higher than any gun could fire a projectile even now with the advances of saboted ammunition et cetera. For example, a very performance sabot round might have a muzzle velocity of 6000fps. When it impacts it won't still moving that fast. The impact velocity of the explosivly formed penetrator created by a heat round will still be at least double the muzzle velocity of a sabot round. The only way to counter such weapons is with composite armor and actively exploding armor panels. Anyway, excellent vid, just a small detail.

[@larqven0192]

Nice historical analysis. I'm not sure I really thought of the photon torpedo being used heavily by the Klingons and then dropping out in favor of disruptors. I would argue that photon torpedoes seems to have become a more preferable weapon to be used later than in the 23rd Century by Starfleet. Presumably autonomous guiding systems got improved. TOS gave more the impression of firing rounds as opposed to torpedoes. It would seem to me that everyone who could develop warp would eventually develop photon torpedoes as well. Albeit, a case might be made for the 'Roddenberry Philosophy' that higher level races would not be immediately turning their thoughts to war applications. Energy weapons being more often seen as 'tools' that could be brought to defense. Even folks like the Orions as aggressors might be more interested in capturing ships and crews as opposed to blowing them up. In any case, I could imagine that the Klingons were the ones to perfect antimatter charged, warp sustained projectile tech in 'Star Trek's traditional known space'.

[@TimothyChapman]

Here are some interesting facts about LIM and RAIL launchers. LIM (Linear Induction Motor) uses a changing magnetic field to propel the projectile. The field polarity at different parts of the barrel will change depending on where the projectile is for maximum acceleration. This is the preferred method as it minimizes friction between the launcher and the projectile. If done correctly, there would be no friction. If done incorrectly, the projectile may explode in the tube. RAIL guns use the projectile to create an electrical short between the positive and negative rails of the power supply, which creates a massive current, which propels the projectile down the barrel. Friction between the launcher and the projectile is a requirement for this weapon to work, and thus you have losses due to friction. These types of weapons also tend to want to push the two rails apart, which would render the whole launcher useless. Maintenance costs on these tend to be quite high as a result.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

LIM sounds simpler. But I do feel like the klingon battlecruisers use RAIL guns since the Hull is built around the weapon.

[@TimothyChapman]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 RAIL guns are actually simpler, as it's literally the positive and negative rails of a power supply which are shorted together by the projectile. LIM launchers use many pairs of electromagnets that run the length of the launcher. As the projectile approaches a pair, that pair is turned on to pull it forwards. As the projectile passes the center of that pair, it reverses polarity to push the projectile forwards (and the next pair is turned on). As the projectile moves away from the pair, that pair is turned off.

[@warrenreid6109]

I beleive the railgun launch system is a more viable option. I'm sure the klingons had developed a metal, plastic, or other solid to prevent the rails from spreading.

[@JW-il6iq]

I always figured the Photon Torpedo CASE the Federation used was for guidance....the other races just used point and shoot photon "bolts"

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Well a bit like anti-matter spread. Does explain the bolt effect we see in some enterprise episodes.

[@bettyswunghole3310]

Whooah! I can't believe you dropped an "F-bomb"! And I thought you were such a refined gentleman!

[@charlesbard2331]

In Star Trek the Next Generation a Klingon mentioned MercurialLite Rockets was that a ancient Klingon weapon...

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I think the talarians used those.

[@charlesbard2331]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 . Any idea what they look like...

[@ussvoyager8650]

I really like the sounds photon torpedoes make when they R fired

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

interesting but tbh, where did you get these infos from? Cause in Enterprise it seems that Starfleet already catched up with klingon photon torpedos(firing at warp, check! Adjustable yields, check!)

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Those are photonic not photon torpedoes as I described in the video.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 But afaik those are the SAME weapons! Starfleet just named them Photonic Torpedos atb cause of their prototype Status in the mid 22nd century

[@smileygabe22]

I absolutely enjoy and love your videos.

[@haroldcarfrey4206]

In FASA Star Trek, The Klingons had torpedoes and disruptors first while the early federation had lasers, particle beams, and Accellerator Cannons. The Federation was able to defeat the Klingons and the Romulans by simply designing more effective warships, the Marshall class destroyers =

[@brianjohnson5272]

MARSHAL!!!

[@jaredcolon4535]

Bleed through damage makes absolutely perfect sense especially when you watch the battle of khitomer in star trek six. The shields are up but there is still physical hull damage and scorching and then excelsior getting hit it shows that exactly

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

And in TNG when they target vulnerable areas of the ship

[@PelhamExpress]

I always thought the forward torpedo tube in the Enterprise D had varied types of torpedoes, some regular and some “cluster bomb” or “grapeshot” types that fired at once but separated like shotgun shells or cluster munitions. Oh well, I can see such a complex system falling out of favor with the need to build an emergency combat fleet like the Saber, Akira, Steamrunner and Norway classes

[@dermagnus8482]

Nice and interesting breakdown.

[@20catsRPG]

Nice vid 👌 Quick question, are you aware of / play Star Trek Attack Wing?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

don't think so. is that a tabletop game?

[@davidkelley5382]

First time on your channel, I liked it but wish you had sourced your points. May U & your channel live long & prosper.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Trouble is that there aren't many alpha sources. So I largely go off headcanon.

[@fightingfalcon777]

The Klingons being the primary innovator of the photon torpedo makes a lot of sense to me, especially with Roddenberry’s idea of the Klingons in the TOS and film era being a stand-in for the Soviet Union. Given their preference for submarine warfare and sea denial, torpedoes would seem like the most effective weapon for that to me and it would then make sense that the Klingons use a similar method for space denial

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

or indeed their use in latter years of ATGMs be they from BMPs or barrel launched from certain tanks.

[@fightingfalcon777]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 also true

[@breembo]

Why havent we seen much use of cloaked torpedos? Didnt the maquis have a warp capable shielded torpedo of mass destruction. One would think that tech would be use for long range cruise missile targets.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Because they are very very! Expensive.

[@MandoMTL]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 DS9 really opened up a pandora's box of physics breaking tech with those self-replicating cloaked mines. You can replicate mines all of a sudden, but not torpedos? Bit of a tangent, but yeah.

[@jonathanellis6097]

It is quite interesting that the Klingons had a tech advantage for a long time over Starfleet in some areas. Then they became impossibly corrupted by the political classes, and fell behind, we still haven't seen a Klingon in Discovery since they jumped forward, what has become of them?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

My guess is that the empire disintegrated in the 25th century.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

They went back to the Gotham Grimdarkness Universe they accidentallly were pulled from😆

[@fgutz1970]

For weapons that use antimatter, the photon torpedos we see onscreen seem to be ridiculously underpowered. Even a tiny amount,, say half a gram each of antimatter and matter annihilating each other, would release a tremendous amount of energy, more than what the atomic bombs used on Japan. Most articles I've read about the weapons put the amount of matter/antimatter being used over a kilogram. Even if only a fraction of that were to actually annihilate with each other the resulting release of energy would be much, much more than what we see. Enough to engulf a starship or Borg cube instead of a small 'poof!'

[@raideurng2508]

You're forgetting how bonkers strong shielding is. When torpedoes actually strike targets directly, they tend to cause immense damage. It usually tears right through hull plating and rip large holes in the structure.

[@xhesarve7109]

i lost track of how many times in tng picard or riker said "we cant use torpedos this close without rusking major damage" or something similar

[@poseidon5003]

A photonic torpedo contain only anti-mater in a magnetic bubble. Detonation occurs when that magnetic bubble is released.. A PHOTON torpedo contains both matter and anti-matter separated by force fields. It detonates when the force fields shut down. I have no stinkin' idea how a quantum torpedo works. It's a magic fictional weapon like a phaser. I agree that the Klingon's definitely had them in the 22nd century. I also remember it being mentioned in one of the "Augment" episodes that one torpedo would NOT penetrate Enterprises hull plating. So they weren't very high yield back then as compared to the 23rd and 24th century versions.

[@poseidon5003]

@Darth Revan Yes. But we have no physical idea how. At least the warhead on a photonic or photon torpedo can be explained by actual physics.

[@Odinskobiej]

In Star Trek Undiscovered Country they show a torpedo going through the saucer section with no Shields and it goes straight through the hall, that seems to be a good example of the new Photon torpedo that the Klingons made

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah. And a good example of bleed-through

[@miamijules2149]

Venom... I likely.... I likey A LOT! Great stuff!

[@lexchaotica190]

The Star Fleet Battles guys roll their eyes....Fasa guys bellow Qapla !

[@huginstarkstrom]

torps make sense for cloaked ships - enemies will have shields down and the own ship will be easier to mask if the energy weapons aren't powered up.

[@ISAF_Ace]

It does certainly seem that they invented them, all their ships until the vorcha seem to focus of torpedo warfare. From what we always see, the Klingon ships usually only have a single (visible) launcher, like the fact that DS9 is seemingly able to mount larger and more powerful launchers, it seems that lots of Older Klingon warships focus of disruptors and a single primary and much larger torpedo launcher instead of having several smaller ones like the federation does, I did always assume that the neck of the D7 was actually a spinal mounted launcher mass effect style to get more power and range, same with the bird of prey, the reason it was such a threat in its early days (imo) was that it could mount torpedoes of a longer range and power than the constitution of the era, That was my justification for the ships exposed neck.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah. Resurrected starships did say that the launcher ad neck don't line up. But still the launcher is at the very prow of the ship. Its hard to tell on vorcha and negh'var vorcha probably just has fore and aft supplemented by modules. Negh'var likely has more.

[@charlesbard2331]

In Star Trek the next generation I remember a Klingon mentioning an ancient battery of Mercury light rockets was that a very early Klingon weapon....

[@bettyswunghole3310]

"Range" is a kind of weird idea in deep space. A projectile that isn't subject to any retarding forces (such as gravitational fields or wind resistance) will keep travelling indefinitely...

[@dustinherk8124]

except there are always gravitational forces. how to do you think galactic orbital mechanics work? our solar system, along with literally every other star in the galaxy has gravitational forces always applied. so it wont travel indefinately. it will not however stop nearly as quick as canon suggests.

[@bettyswunghole3310]

@@dustinherk8124 Well *obviously* there are always gravitational forces, what with gravitational field strength being a continuous quantity. However, they drop off with the inverse square of distance, so in deep interstellar space their effects will be essentially negligible on something as small as a torpedo. The effect would only become noticeable once the torpedo came within range of something sufficiently massive to deflect it. I'm sure you've seen those models of "gravity wells"...most of the "landscape" is essentially flat when nowhere near an actual "well". Anyway, I have a fairly good understanding of how orbital mechanics work...all I was suggesting is that "range" doesn't have a lot of meaning in deep space compared to on a planetary environment.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

Interesting premise. I'm curious if you have considered a secondary aspect of missile warfare, that being the use of Close In Weapon Systems like Phalanx, Goalkeeper, RIM-116, and Pantsir. It appears that for many factions, their primary offensive weapons are proton and quantum torpedoes. This, to my mind, begs the question of why we don't see CIWS-like defensive armaments aboard ships, especially non-combat vessels operating in potentially hostile territory.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

so i might have alluded to it a little here, and on the Phaser and laser video. so lasers were a popular point defense weapon. but higher launch velocities for torpedoes and navigational deflectors on board the torpedoes made such active defenses increasingly ineffective, whilst shields became a simpler and increasingly reliable defense.

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 given the rapidity with which phasers can be aimed and fired, certainly a computer program could be developed to engage torpedoes and other missiles? Especially since they still travel much more slowly than phasers.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@nicholaswalsh4462 there might be countermeasures by the torpedo. your phasers would be better put to use shooting at the thing launching the torpedoes

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 there is on screen evidence that torpedoes have a much longer effective range than phasers. Plus isn't it preferable to not be hit by a torpedo in the first rather than praying the shields hold longer than the shields of the foe?

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

There is always a race between offensive and defensive systems, the sword and the shield, if you will. And in Star Trek it just seems like everyone invented deflector shields and decided that was all the defensive technology they would need. We see in the shows and movies numerous examples of sensor and communications jamming, indicating Electronic Warfare capabilities at least on par with our own in the modern day. So how come we don't see any indication of dedicated electronic warfare officers or the use of sensor jamming to spoof incoming torpedoes? Why don't we see attempts to make being hit less likely? Maybe I have the wrong mindset but I'm firmly of the belief that not getting hit is a much better defensive option than being able to tank loads of hits.

[@spatialgaming1967]

So the Klingons are the first people to utilize something like theCasaba Howitzer? Interesting. I am honestly surprised that any torpedoes in Star Trek use them, as they are an obscure idea that few people know about.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I'm gonna have to look that up.

[@sagesheahan6732]

Tricobalt Torpedoes please. Hell, there are A LOT of different weapons in Star Trek. Phased Polaron beams from the Dominion, Plasma torpedoes, Klingon Ion torpedoes, Chronoton weapons... theres a lot here to cover.

[@suzumiyaharuhi3438]

Does anyone know the source for the "cone-shaped" photon weahead design?

[@Ishlacorrin]

Nothing in Canon sources, in fact all canon sources suggest that the explosion point is in the middle of the torp's mass and thus circular in geometry.

[@suzumiyaharuhi3438]

@@Ishlacorrin That's my thought as well.

[@absboodoo]

Just think who else is crazy enough to smash matter and anti-matter together to create a big boom.

[@longtimber]

The purple photon torpedoes come for the Klingon ship commanded by Samuel L. Jackson.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

You mean general Ka'Chang

[@jhallam2011]

Interesting…I can buy this.

[@brianjohnson5272]

I will disagree venom, I think Romulans or Gorn did first and the vulcans copied or were given it, found it to be too cruel to use and found photonic torpedoes. The difference is Plasms is a mini sun, heat and radiation to overwhelm shield and crew. Photonic, photon, and quantum torpedoes are straight matter/antimatter explosions and less survivors that are slow killed by radiation and horribly disfigured by the hear.

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

What was the deal with Cobalt Torpedoes? I heard that was a super-torpedo the klingons came up with?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

I'll cover that in another video

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 thanks!

[@Zeithri]

Meanwhile Romulans are like > lol - fires plausma -

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

"He he plasma ball goes brrr"

[@randomobserver8168]

I'm interested in your backstory of early Klingon expansion, the military rivals they encountered, and the mode of warfare they found. [I remember the Kriosians as less impressive, but then a couple of centuries passed before we met them]. Is all that canon, novel canon, or original to you? I wish Trek had a lot more early lore like that but I'm also not reading the novel verse much the past couple decades, so maybe this era has been looked at.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

So we see the kriosians twice in tng and once in enterprise where they are an independent power. So logically they would have had to have been conquered by the klingons. But that's never been specifically covered.

[@breembo]

Could old tech like rail guns and mass drivers be of any use in irregular tactics?

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

If the enemy shields are down definitely

[@paulbeaney4901]

Why not upscale the weapon? I mean, even just making it longer. Both of those would allow a bigger warhead.

[@Zuyfrog]

How were the Quantum torpedoes different?

[@shanenolan8252]

Klingons not liking that kind of war . Reminds me of a saying my grandmother had .( fuck this for a game of soldier's) seems apt for Klingons

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Or if your British. "Sod this for a game of soldiers"

[@shanenolan8252]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 yes .

[@davidreeves4556]

yousa science to create da ultimate torpedo!!

[@Hazmatt4700]

there is some good parallels to this with the idea that Klingons where stand-ins for the Russians. Since they love artillery and missile batteries. Their missile ships that where designed to move in a high speed and dump loads of anti ship missiles at carrier battle groups are also analogs.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yeah and russian artillery goes way back. Even in the napoleonic wars they had some of the biggest guns massed in large batteries generally twice the number of other European armies.

[@killingragethrowback]

? There's the Quantum ang guided torpedoes and then the Tricobalts and Phase torpedoes. The most development happened after the Dominion War or leading up to it after Wolf 359.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Yes I'll get to those in another video

[@andyf4292]

shame they never thought of Casaba howitzer...

[@jessecarozza8134]

If 24th Century photons had shaped, directional charges... why did they have minimum range?

[@shankleythebest]

It is the exact same weapon, whether it's the human/vulcan named photonic torpedo, or the klingon named photon torpedo it is the exact same weapon.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

Lieutenant Reed stole the design the schematics for photon torpedoes he downloaded the Klingon tactical database and he passed along this information to section 31 and then they developed it and deployed it to the fleet the Enterprise was the first ship to get the photon torpedoes

[@aknar1999]

I think you have it backwards concerning shields and armor. Shields are against particle and energy weapons but only seem to slow down torpedos.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

why do you think that?

[@aknar1999]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 while deflectors do push aside particles at high speeds we can see a Klingon torpedo clearly hit the dish of the Enterprise in Undiscovered Country. Shields would disperse directed energy weapons Over their surface effectively absorbing the energy. Small particles would also ricochet off but I believe a torpedo has too much mass along with its own deflector which could aid it in piercing the energy shield and impacting the ship where it would do the most damage.

[@aknar1999]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 also if you remember from TOS the Romulan disrupter affects metal making it crumble, you want to keep that as far away from your hull as possible with an energy shield that would dissipate the disrupter beam.

[@aknar1999]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 other than that I totally agree with everything you said, especially the generations of torpedos and the launch methods

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

@@aknar1999 yeah i agree thats what happens in that scene, but i would put that down as being specifically an example of bleed-through damage, from being the newest torpedo. i don't think penetration of shields is an inherent trait to torpedoes.

[@charlesbard2331]

that was Merculite rockets...

[@1COMIXMAN]

In history its been proven that war creates more innovation than peacetime. And the Klingon being about nothing but war and their planetary budget going towards the military industry I could see them having certain advancements on weapons. If you think about it the days from institute was worried more about computer tech A.I. and defensive tech not so much weapons. Only during wartime did they worry about weapons.

[@captainstryker2716]

U THANKED ALL UR COMMANDERS EXCEPT ME THAT IS MESSED UP MAN

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

Sorry. You were on the list when I recorded the episode. My bad.

[@nihilityjoey]

I'm not really understanding any of this. These weapons make little sense. But to start. Matter anti matter explosions have a 100 percent energy conversion rate as far as we are aware, there is no need to help with explosive yield. Shaping the head of a torpedo such as this would make no difference to the dispersion of the energy. But the description of the shields and hulls makes no sense either. Surely the energy of the phasers would be better suited to shield drainage and the torpedoes to take out the hulls? But to be fair, phasers is just the term startrek uses for lasers. And it makes sense that the torpedoes shine, to make laser/phaser targeting of them usless (which is mentioned). But how are any of those ships shields or hulls surviving even one of those torpedoes? As stated on here, the shields are weak, and how is an unshielded ship surviving one antimatter torpedo without any shields? I'm constantly being told of the yield of these weapons but by this description it just makes even lense sense to me. Then there is the point of having such weapons aboard a ship. Nukes dont have nuclear detonation should a ship be destroyed. This is down to how a nuclear explosion is brought about. An anti matter payload has no such luxury. The moment a torpedo is hit that payload will inevitably detonate. Making every single ship carrying them a flying catastrophe. In reality, if there was a fleet senario like we seen in picard season one, I would say that (not even mentioning the antimatter warp core) a ship destroyed in the center of that fleet would set off a chain reaction destroying the fleet. All of that antimatter going off would have laid waste to that battle field, and maybe a planet as well, given the payloads and yields they are supposed have.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

phasers and disruptors are still the primary ant-shield weapon. but klingon disruptors have a shorter range, so they sometimes need to rely on torpedoes over longer ranges. from evidence in enterprise we see polarized hull plating can protect from torpedos, but i think that only works if the torpedoes are also themselves weaker and more primitive. and yes a torpedo magazine is very vulnerable. as were the magazines of any historical warship.

[@gerogefinkle4764]

But didn't canon state that the Klingons came by their technology from a crashed vessel on their planet, and that they hadn't developed anything which is why their hand to hand barbaric nature was so strong.

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

no but there is a lot of beta canon which states that. its more a matter of preference

[@AnjinKyotsu]

I just saw this video, sorry for my much late comment... So, I was watching and a couple things crawled in to my head regarding this... 1. Klingon developed photon torps 2. How it was said perhaps early 23rd century the Klingons took a slight tech adv lead Now, I am no keen on how new star trek shows come and contradict everything, so that said, my views do not acknowledge a couple star trek series, like Discovery (Thrown in trash), Enterprise (Thrown in trash), Strange New Worlds (Started great and looks to star heading to trash can). Also, I am much older then this woke generation, I tend to stay in Kirks time period and I use FASA game material for my references Now then... There are several mentions in series and books and games of Romulans and Klingons exchanging tech trade, at least 3 times before The Motion Picture Enterprise... I can easily see Romulans and Klingons helping each other in tech areas. Klings helping Roms in Warp Tech and Hull Tech. In return Roms help Klings in Weapon Tech and Cloakies. So I can see Roms helping Klings in the development of Photon torps. And give Romulan tactics, Photon Torp, at the time, Was not something they would favor as they were deeply in love with their plasma tech. So I do agree Klingons did develop it, but with Romulan assistance. And given Vulcans can pass as Romulans, it would extremely easy for Federation to get their hands on this and develop them to their liking.

[@robmcelwee389]

Klingon guidance systems must be far superior to Federation systems. They hardly ever hit anything, especially in TNG.

[@davidadiwego4608]

The Klingons didn't invent anything. They came to interstellar power by overthrowing their technologically superior conquerors and appropriating their tech. Then they captured other alien tech. They conquered world's and got them to build tech for Klingons. That's my head cannon

[@wargodsix]

Starfleet got their weapons from andorians

[@R2N81]

It’s not clear that if the Klingons were having technological advantage against the federation for a period or not because even in the franchise,NX-1 has developed advanced technology better than the empire in just a blink of an eye time interval🤔There is a huge knowledge gap in there…

[@neganrex5693]

It goes to show you if you don't want it used on you than don't invent it. LOL.

[@Jinx7red]

Transwarp torpedoes! insta hits! just sayin'

[@lanebowles8170]

I'm sorry, but this was another painful video. Anything you use that is of or derived from "Enterprise" and/or "Discovery" just falls flat and I find unacceptable. While I approve of some of your technical details, the historical context is just unacceptable to me. It seems that while I am on board practically 100% with your 24th Century and beyond content (so long as you avoid "Picard" and "Discovery" like the plague!), I will nearly always reject anything of the 22nd Century and before and will always find your idea of the 23rd Century problematic. So, I have decided to just stick to your 24th Century content from now on. I really do enjoy it!

[@venomgeekmedia9886]

OK I know some didn't like enterprise. Personally I feel differently. But it's not like I don't have a lot of 24th century stuff.

[@lanebowles8170]

@@venomgeekmedia9886 Agreed!

[@madmonkee6757]

Well, Enterprise isn't cannon, so who cares?

[@mem1701movies]

I hate ENTERPRISE. It made humans look backward and stupid. Didn’t like the FIRST CONTACT stuff either.

[@acedynamo]

Wrong.

[@OptimusPrime-m8z]

Hate to burst your bubble. Klingons don't use photon torpedoes. At some point in the past they did but during Kirk's era they had a arms trade with the romulans. They gave the d7 cruiser plans and the romulans gave the plasma torpedo.... the plasma torpedo is a type of concentrated directed energy. There's no physical "torpedo" or shell housing any mechanics. The fact that early klingons used photon torpedoes doesn't mean they invented them. Plasma torpedoes were much more powerful and still used in the 24th century. Everything you have said is conjecture based off of special effects. Special effects change over time as producers invent new methods. It's not a photon torpedo... it's a completely different weapon that can mitigate shield effectiveness. Kirk's enterprise was the first to encounter it. There was a whole episode called ballance of terror. The plasma torpedo has a weakness. It loses effectiveness at longer ranges... which is why the klingons adopted very aggressive close range attack strategies.