How The Moon Is Needlessly Cruel To Jack Frost⎮A Dreamworks: Rise of the Guardians Discussion

[@asvehipashesfliver]

I love this movie and I watch it whenever it’s on but I always hated the way Jack was treated

[@sarahsims6164]

Gladly agree with every part of this comment, I feel the exact same way.

[@DragonGoddess18]

We all do

[@smb-c3po]

Was the book ever part of a series?

[@eksprolek2924]

@@smb-c3po no book is not canon to the movie

[@smb-c3po]

@@eksprolek2924 Why?

[@DragonGoddess18]

I agree that the Man in the Moon was very neglectful towards Jack and the Guardians weren't much better since none of them even bothered to talk to him or be even slightly friendly to him for 300 years. In terms of technicality, Jack is a child (teenagers count as kids) and they should have been there for him Jack is the spirit of Winter and winter,in of itself, doesn't go away when people don't believe in it Maybe Jack becoming a Guardian with Believers will give him a power boost and he would be fine and not disappear if people stopped believing in him

[@crazysilberking9541]

I think the man in the moon is Limited in his abilities!!! Because all the Guardians that He could create have the same Problem like Jake! It doesn't matter what He creates if nobody knows about there existins! Jake could easily show people his abilities and write his name in the Windows!!!!

[@DragonGoddess18]

@@crazysilberking9541 Who's Jake? PS There are three vertical dots on the comment, use it to correct your spelling mistakes please (Example: "there existins" should be "their existence")

[@WitheringAurora]

To be fair, would you try and talk to/befriend someone thats pranking you for hundreds of years?

[@jackofastora8962]

@@crazysilberking9541 if I drew my name in your window you wouldn’t go “omg spirit of winter!” You’d go “wtf who wrote their name on my window” and forget about it after a week

[@theworstspeedrunner]

@@jackofastora8962 unless you see the air itself writing it

[@lilmissbacon]

My headcanon is that it takes a lot of Man in Moon's energy/magic to actively speak to anyone. The moon is thousands of miles away, I would imagine that'd be hard to talk to people. That could also be why he uses moonlight to direct the guardians and choose Jack as guardian; because it's easier to just redirect light that already touches Earth. Also I'm pretty sure the only reason Jack doesn't remember his past is because he died in becoming a spirit while the others were just turned.

[@smb-c3po]

headcanon* A head cannon is what Lockdown has.

[@deniz9779]

How were they turned? I don’t remember their backstories. Was it in the movie?? Also, if they were turned into guardians while alive then what happened with their families??

[@smb-c3po]

@@deniz9779 Also died

[@lilmissbacon]

@@deniz9779 their backstories were not explored in the movie but there are books that rotg is based on. Granted the books and movie are NOT the same universe but it's not hard to infer that they're not too far off either. Their families weren't really a problem because North was an orphan, Sandy's an alien and the others families are all dead 😐

[@annepixiebettinger3593]

I have the headcannon that bringing Jack back took so much magic/power/energy that it weakened him which was what allowed Pitch to really start making a comeback (albeit slowly). North *did* say "Man in Moon! It's been long time old friend!" so it's possible that the Guardians haven't heard from him since Jack's resurrection. Also it'd be funny if everytime he tried contacting them his computers or something would catch fire (cause there are machines, they're in the books. He was raised by robots and moon worms)

[@TheMoonwolfer]

The reason why Jamie knows Jack Frosts name is because his mother said the expression earlier "don't let Jack Frost snap at your nose", he links this because the ice bunny Jack conjured literally snapped Jamie's nose with ice making him remember about Jack Frost and making him believe in him enough to see the real Jack Frost. in this world people know who he is they just don't believe he is real. In a similar way most kids in the movie knew who the Boogeyman was, yet did not believed in pitch black until he gave them nightmares. Knowing about something doesn't mean believing in it.

[@meepmeep4728]

but how does the mother know jack frost's name. sure she is just singing a song but how does the song writer know his name. at some point jack would have to tell them his name which can only happen if they believe in him

[@trashdrawingghost7843]

@@meepmeep4728 the mother made it up coincidentally like all the other guardians

[@meepmeep4728]

@@trashdrawingghost7843 it's a song in the real world. what sense would it make to say the mother just came up with it if it is real

[@SomeTexan]

@@meepmeep4728 well you've heard of jack frost who's to say the kids mother never heard of jack frost. Also correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the mother just use the saying not sing a song?

[@meepmeep4728]

@@SomeTexan in our world jack frost is a made up character and definitely isn't real. in their world the only way for her to have heard of him is if someone knew him or someone got really lucky and came up with his exact name which then became well known which is very unlikely. also it probably was just a saying. its been a while since i have watched the movie.

[@lenastorm6280]

I've always wondered why Manny doesn't just communicate with Jack the way he does with the other guardians. I just never, ever, ever understood that! Poor, poor Jack! I'm impressed that he was able to hold on to his center, fun, for so long and didn't become depressed. Or even so frustrated that he turned evil. I wouldn't judge him for that. The other guardians & Manny were so cruel to do this to him!

[@sarahsims6164]

Right?! I wouldn't have judged him either! At the very least he should've thought about it more before he said yes to being a Guardian.

[@vixiestarfire]

I think he should’ve at least been tempted to join Pitch

[@vixiestarfire]

@@flyhigh.higher8814 I agree that he was surprised I just wasn’t sure if he was at all tempted because when Pitch asked Jack shut him down immediately but idk 🤷‍♀️

[@TryinBin8889]

I feel like they wanted to explore this in like, a sequel movie because that would've been one of the next more climactic places to go with the show, but the tragic box-office job prevented them from making sequels :(

[@crazysilberking9541]

What if that the lost of memories is always the case, when the moon reanimate someone. That would explain, why the tooth fairy has the ability to restore memories.

[@tahei_topaz9897]

In my culture there’s this story that this lady was trying to find water in the middle of the night with the light of the moon shining down, and when the light disappeared she swore at the moon and the moon decided to take her away forever

[@ThePrincessCH]

Which culture is that story from? It sounds interesting.

[@tahei_topaz9897]

@@ThePrincessCH The culture is Māori the indigenous people of New Zealand 🇳🇿

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@tahei_topaz9897 Thank you.

[@lonelyronin2428]

...what? Did the moon kill her? Is there a Maori good god/ goddess that got pissed off? She was frustrated, cut her some slack!

[@tahei_topaz9897]

@@lonelyronin2428 The moon is just the moon and I guess it got offended or smth so it decided to take her away for the rest of her days. We have many many different gods in our culture, the main ones being Ranginui(father sky), Papatūānuku(Mother Earth) and depending which tribe your from they had about 70 to 140 children. And the story is kinda complicated to explain because so much happened between the gods, but one goddess in particular got pissed off at Maui(yes Maui from Moana) and killed him… I can’t explain how he died because it’s kinda censored…

[@insertclevernamehere1186]

Perhaps Moony saw it as an act of mercy, since his family (not knowing of Jack Frost's existence) would be completely unable to see or hear him. Maybe his memories were erased to spare him the pain of watching his family mourn him, eventually move on, grow old and die... You can't miss what you don't remember...

[@cecillewolters1995]

You can miss what you don't remember, but this is a great point :)

[@desiree7633]

this is actually makes sence

[@moraelity]

@@cecillewolters1995 if you don’t remember it, how can you miss it? To miss something you need to have known about it. If you don’t remember, you don’t technically know about it

[@cecillewolters1995]

@@moraelity You can know things in general. I know kids that miss their grandparents, even though those grandparents died way before they were born. As a trans woman, I always missed boobs xD To make things bigger, I personally have always felt like some sort of musician who doesn't know what kind of instruemnt to play. There is something somewhere for me, but what? Dunno, still want it tho

[@moraelity]

@@cecillewolters1995 how can you miss your grandparents if you never even met them? You didn't even know them. Sure you can hear stories but without that would you even miss them? "Miss" just means to "feel negatively when you no longer have something". As someone who isn't cis either, I can't say that I miss having penis because I've never had one. Maybe "missing out" is the correct version but miss on its own makes it a different sentence. Have no idea why English is like that, it's weird as hell

[@theodoreadelarian5259]

Maybe Manny forgot Jack existed LOL. After 300 years, when Pitch made the threat, Manny was like, "Oh shit, I do have this kid right here."

[@laei6391]

Looks like it makes sense

[@NilasJunkyard]

Just an old guy. "He's .. He's very old. ... Just .. let him be."

[@js66613]

He could've just made him a Guardian straight away? Like tf? And also, how do you forget someone you RESURRECT? He clearly had no problem remembering Pitch, the spirit he replaced without warning.

[@AriaSerif]

I think that would have been a big "oof" if it were true.

[@ANGELiki1992]

HAHAHA!! I remember reading a fanfic prompt (sadly there was no fic do back it up) in which the Man In Moon postponed resurrecting Jack from the lake not only until nighttime of the same day, but... a bit more... and then a bit more... and then he forgot. And then: 300 years pass and MIM's like, "HMM TROUBLE A BREWIN. I should go enlist that winter spirit OH GODDAMMIT HE'S STILL IN THE LAKE" lol

[@Ardent_Sylph]

It's a wonder Jack didn't turn out wore than being a bit mischievous. 300 years of isolation for a teenager is rough. I was just as mad at the moon as Jack was when he was brought into the fold. He had every right to be resentful.

[@oliviamarcar1088]

I thought he was gonna be tempted by pitch and get convinced it’s not right by the guardians I mean he had every reason to join even if it was bad

[@js66613]

"More than a a bit mischievous?" He probably killed someone's gold fish considering he froze over the fish bowl, he took away someone's papers that could've been important, he froze someone's tongue to a water fountain... That is NOT a "bit mischievous". He's dangerous!

[@lemonzest6988]

@@js66613 He got abandoned for 300 years and the only people who could see him thought he was beneath them and only interacted with him if he did something they didn't approve of, like snowing over Easter. Yeah, he's dangerous, but he's not malicious, just lonely and trying to get noticed in any way possible. Even if it's because they hate him. Pitch touched on this during his 'join me' speech, saying that he was right and no one ignores something they fear. The only reason Jack said no is because he saw what it was like to be loved, even if he wasn't apart of it and knew scaring people into believing in him would permanently ruin any chance at having that kind of recognition. So yeah, he's dangerous, but only if you force him to be.

[@dumbleking5172]

@@oliviamarcar1088 When _that_ moment came up, I really thought he was going to turn.

[@levitus._3507]

@@js66613 I know youe reply has been aged to 9 months or so but reading how you literally Jack 'criminal record' is so hilarious. ngl make me chuckle at night

[@sanfloo_]

This movie was so underrated

[@AnotherGeek....]

Yup it WAS, shame it took so long to be this populair, maybe someday we will get something new

[@ayazi.akechi]

@@AnotherGeek.... I hope so. It should get the recognition it deserves

[@pai009]

I don't know it anyone else has mentioned this, but Jack isn't exactly who we think he is. It is revealed in the Guardians of Childhood books that he is in fact a spirit originally named Nightlight, who is one of a race that is very powerful. He protected the world during the first time Pitch Black, who's actually backstory is pretty sad BTW, with the other guardians of that time, one of witch was the embodiment of Mother Goose. After some time he wind-up choosing to live amongst humans after loosing a lot of his powers, being taken in by the family we see in his backstory in the movie. After saving his adopted sister from one of Pitch's nightmares, witch is actually what happened on the lake, he chooses to forget his past with the other guardians before the man in the moon resurrects him, I'm guessing not knowing that Jack choose to forget his life before. Now knowing this, the story could have been very different than in the movie if Jack, AKA Nightlight, actually had his memories and knew how to use his powers to their full potential. I think the next movie would have maybe shown the return of Kathrine, Mother Goose, and have Jack Frost(He choose the name for himself) regain at least some (If not all) of his memories of who he truly is as they fight Pitch Black once again.

[@Ikajo]

Just a note... witch means woman who use magic 🧙‍♀️ 🧙‍♂️ you want to use which.

[@TamTroll]

considering how different the movie is to the books, i get the feeling that most of the background details like that are not canon to the movie. Same destination, different route to get there.

[@retrowave69]

@@Ikajo they don't seem to be a native english writer/speaker. There's a lot more typos and wrong grammar in there.

[@Ikajo]

@@retrowave69 Neither am I. I just wanted to help them out a bit. It is a common mistake after all.

[@lizzyrank5405]

If people gave the rise of the guardians a bit more attention they that would have been amazing. Unfortunately parents across the US thought it was gonna be a bit more mature with the trailers they saw and didn't even give it a chance. I will say though the books get a bit nonsensical and a heavy use of Asian culture that idk if anyone would be ok using(maybe they would) the book material outright. Though since this movie deviated from the original we could have gotten something more better.

[@bdariamihaela]

And there could have been a way to solve bothe the memory problem and the man on the moon problem. So Jack fall through the ice and than he got resurected, but we know it's alredy night when he does get, so he spent at least a few hours under water. What if he would have lost his memories then, and the man on the mood couldn't give him them back, but when you have amnesia you don't just forget all at once, he could have had some flashbacks, some memories that he got from time to time, it would have worked just well

[@isabellefuoss9737]

Yes but what about the 300 years of isolation

[@bdariamihaela]

@@isabellefuoss9737 I don't know, I thought only of the memory problem

[@emmabrowning3548]

I think Jack was actually under the ice for 100 years at least, then was alone for 300. I might be wrong though

[@castielwinchester6222]

@@emmabrowning3548 no he was in water for few months because you can Actually see his little sister in the background of the first scene.

[@elo2coon434]

Here's my thinking, the man in the moon as we saw is a benevolant spirit who only see the greater good : greater for who ? Him and so his guardian and people (mostly children) who belive in them and by that, in him... And as a "benevolant" figure, he resurected Jack to "serve" him It's hard and cruel but everything was predicted by the moon man and the suffering of Jack were neccessary for him to grow as the guardian he's now. And in the big picture, or in the eyes of the Moon man who wacht the world. It's was for the greater good... The Greater Gooood... ;)

[@DanielLopez-sh2pp]

This parallels God. Feels weird. Uncanny.

[@mochiandturtles5642]

Just like our ocs, gifting them pain and suffering for character development.

[@danielawesome36]

The Man in the Moon is a Tau in the Moon confirmed. Prepare to _burn,_ Heretic Xenos!

[@animeweeb653]

This is the most accurate reason why 👍

[@bdariamihaela]

I never thought of that, but yes, the man on the moon is a jerk

[@TheGirlWhoExists]

Couldn't agree more tbh. Manny did Jack dirty. Many a fanfic has been written expounding on this. Other such topics include: actually Fear is not Evil and we probably could use someone cultivating healthy fear and caution. Might've, for instance, gotten some siblings to reconsider skating on thin ice...

[@AriaSerif]

Don't really need a fanfiction to expand on this when there's the books actually.

[@robin_ice]

You remind me that I really need to rewatch this film -especially cause I always watched it at my grandparents and I’m attending one of their funerals tomorrow-

[@cedricletho2971]

Sorry for your loss

[@silversamurai0267]

This is why I particularly like the fanfics for this movie. They usually call out how terrible it was that he was left alone, without a single memory and with only the wind for comfort.

[@zacziggarot]

The weird bit is when the moon tells them that Jack Frost should become a guardian and they're all like "oh Jack Frost" like they all know about him, they all know this guy is wandering around being invisible. If you ask me that kind of reflects poorly on the guardians rather than the moon man.

[@js66613]

The man in the moon is part of the problem though, because he could've stepped in at any moment considering he was supposedly this god like figure, but he chose to do nothing. He could have informed the Guardians that he had no one - perhaps the Guardians just assumed he had someone, but the moon should surely sees all since he managed to pick one random kid out of thousands to resurrect and turn into a Guardian. And with the Moon as their leader, he is responsible for the actions of his underlings. Their bad actions reflect poorly on him.

[@mannyegarica12]

Go in the book they mention Jack was never human in the first place. He was a creature known as a nightlight it was meant to watch over the moon man back he was a child after family was murder. Once the Man in the Moon as an adult Jack was supposed to die and get turn into a star. But Jack had Visions about human family The Man in the Moon told him to go. When he was on Earth he lost his powers and his old memories about being a nightlight found the family in his vision and the rest is history

[@i8chocolatecake995]

oh yeahhhh- that needs a whole other theory video ngl- the whole "Nightlight" thing is super complicated :p

[@aoto8897]

I prefer this human jack from the movie.

[@arashoon7246]

@@aoto8897 but do you prefer the man in the moon in this story or in the movie?

[@galactictulip2021]

Then when he drowns in the lake he forces himself to forget everything

[@castielwinchester6222]

@@galactictulip2021 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqOYi6qsaZ6GbpY

[@DeletedUser_0000]

I forgot about this movie. I kinda started hating Jack literally only because people shipped him with Elsa for the sole reason of them having ice powers. But honestly, I feel bad for him, he’s a decent character and I shouldn’t hate him for something as stupid as a ship. (Even if the ship includes a 300 (mentally 14) year old and a young adult who have never met 💀💀)

[@Rebelheart1985]

As a fan of both Elsa and Jack as characters, even I’m not a fan of Jelsa. Felt like they were only shipped because they had ice powers (which probably isn’t completely wrong or right). I’ve seen far better crossover ships and some of them are with Elsa and Jack. I don’t hate it, just never liked it.

[@ayazi.akechi]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not a fan of that ship.

[@DeletedUser_0000]

@Scarlet Baxter Yeah while that is true, for me personally I feel like it would make more sense for them to be friends or siblings, especially considering Jack is 300 and Elsa is 24-

[@castielwinchester6222]

Actually i ship him with pitch black because i dont believe pitch is a villian.. We all could use fear sometimes So it makes sense to believe in him.. Why do i ship him with jack frost? Because they are both lonely and have a similiar back story.. They have been togather in the start of the golden age till pitch's defeat.. And i have to be truthful with you.. Some of my fav stories and fanfictions are about these two.. For ex "shadows and light" which contains two parts "from the darkness we raised" "to the shadows we fall" "Rocks give away to the rain " and hunders more.. ❤️

[@swagapino56]

oh yeah, the shipping definitely took a toll on the characters. i just find it weird how there was an era where people would ship jack x hiccup despite not even knowing each other, same goes with jack x elsa. these crossover ships did not make any sense, of course some people might try to defend hiccup x jack but it just wouldn't make any sense despite hiccup already being married to astrid and having a family of his own. people shouldn't have an exact reason for jack x elsa however, it's overall just weird to think or even remember of.

[@princess__error9681]

you want to know what always bothered me? How do the adults in this movie not believe in santa? He sneaks into their house to give their kid presents that they certainly didn't buy. Even if they have the "From(insert parnet title here)" on the present, they should still know, "hey I didn't buy that, my spouse didn't buy that, hell that's exactly what little jimmy was asking for all year but we can't afford that" like how do people at least not talk about someone sneak in placing presents under random peoples' trees, like wtf!

[@js66613]

Yeah, I know. Also, seriously, it takes so little to stop kids from believing? Some of them have SEEN Santa Claus. If a person "saw" God they'd be inclined to believe in him even if they were total atheists up until then.

[@ChaoticbratDND]

There is a girl somewhere named "April Showers" if there is a Jack frost

[@jtanimeandnerd101]

How long is it gonna take before DreamWorks decides to make a series on Rise of the Guardians? There is so much incredible lore from the books that they can expand with a series. #GuardiansofChildhood

[@ThePrincessCH]

That's a difficult thing to say. I heard that the reason DreamWorks never expanded on this was because the movie created such a large financial loss, the studio had to lay people off, so it might not be something they would be eager to revisit. As I understand it, the loss came from the marketing fees of this movie.

[@ayazi.akechi]

@@ThePrincessCH If I remember right, the movie came out around the time The Avengers was in theaters which is why the movie wasn't successful. I did read an article about the director of Rise of the Guardians wanted to make a sequel to the movie but I didn't hear anything else after that

[@ravenouself4181]

@@ThePrincessCH Now they have all that "How to Train Your Dragon" money.

[@hahayuck2169]

cartoon companies don’t seem really trustworthy for me right now to be honest

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@ravenouself4181 Money that was probably used to support the Dragons franchise exclusively.

[@halley8105]

I read a theory/headcanon that all communication between the Guardians and MIM stopped when he resurrected Jack because it used up a significant portion of his power.

[@nisie_neri]

Read the books. Jack's story goes beyond before he was Jack Frost. It's crazy 😳

[@bumblese2331]

Which books?

[@nisie_neri]

@@bumblese2331 Guardians of Childhood book series

[@levisbabygirl1947]

Man in the moon🧐 Nail Armstrong really doesn't want to let go of that tittle does he?💀☠

[@Margiak]

Maybe the loss of memory is a kind of "cost" linked to the resurrection itself? Maybe the man on the moon didn't purposely delete Jack Frost's memories, but it just happened. After all, I don't think the other guardians are men / women who died and then brought back to life, at least that I know of. So maybe that's why they haven't lost their memory.

[@requiem6465]

If he became a guardian at the beginning of the mo in he would've died since no one believed in him.

[@ladypool1404]

I would love to see a show based on the books. We could learn how North became Santa and how the Fairy was born. Maybe a villain based on the Befana could appear and terrorise kids, Jamie who's a teenager would help the guardians to defeat the witch. Jack and Tooth could be in love, that would be cute X3 I want to see them returned especially Bunny. This character is so cool, quick and brave. Also he's voiced by Hugh jackman; one of ym favorite actors. That's awesome!

[@starpower1884]

Maybe if we got another movie they would explain some of this.... maybe one day.

[@elexismakelki7974]

Jack is 18 when he dies but even at that age it is still vary traumatic death that anyone who suffer and hurt from.

[@amafish]

This whole video is such a mood tbh Like this is exactly what I do when talking about dumbledore as well

[@hallo4411]

what really makes the man in the moon evil is that if you really think about it he created pitch and gave him this two options. Be evil and scare people to be seen but constantly fight the guardians who are there to KILL HIM. Or don't scare children and stay invisible to everyone forever. What a great fate. Thats why the ending always leaves a bad taste in my mouth

[@js66613]

At least according to the movie anyway. Alternatively, MiM didn't create Pitch but did nothing until he chose to replace him, doing so even without warning, or being like "yo, dude, don't traumatise the kids". And in the books, part of the reason why Pitch even ends up becoming Pitch is because of a particularly dumb decision to let an unstable, grieving man guard the most manipulative, dangerous things in the whole galaxy thinking everything would be fine... I just cannot see MiM as a good guy or someone who wants to do good things.

[@hallo4411]

@@js66613 which books? i just know the little comics...

[@dankmemer2774]

Everyone: *either ignores jack or hates him* Threat: *becomes eminent* Everyone: “Hey jack, old buddy old pal.”

[@emeraldpichu1]

Well it probably all has to do with the book storyline. Mim is basically the servant/charge of the entity that pretends to be Jack. Jack is really an immortal Eldritch God of light who combats the Eldredge God of darkness which pitch just a fragment of, who decided to teach himself humility by incarnating as a human then having his friend / servant guide him down the path of humility so that when he returned to his ascended form he would have more perspective on how to help the lesser mortals and the whole series ends up kind of messy and weird.

[@RacooniePatootie]

"Like seriously...Hundreds of years!"

[@fornax4676]

I noticed that but I still love the movie anyway. It makes for a very compelling tragic element.

[@SL-lv8im]

I completely agree with you about mim. Though I wonder if he really did mind wipe Jack, I mean Frost is the ONLY spirit to have DIED. Who knows what that did to his brain, be it dying or the trauma.

[@themoonhunter]

There is no courage without fear, He could not make it easy for Jack.

[@Brick2buddies]

this is DreamWorks which means he flew to the moon on balloons and went space fishing. and now with the new logo we know the man in the moon eventually learned how to travel through space and time and has knowledge of all points in space and time because he learned how to manipulate it. moon is the spirit of the space-time continuum.

[@animamania1]

I don't know what to say but hundred of years for man in the moon is just few minutes 😯

[@johanstenfelt1206]

All i can think of, after watching this, is that the Man in the Moon is just one other example that justifies my reasoning for either not being a fan of, looking down upon, not thinking very highly of, not being very faithful towards or just downright despising Gods.

[@js66613]

This and The Prince of Egypt - as stunning as it was to watch - helped cement my dislike for biblical-esque gods.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

?

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@js66613 i mean pharaoh was stubborn lol

[@Little.Janette]

Well, I unterstand your opinion BUT! If Jack doesn't have a reason or goal to fight for then the story would be pretty lame. This is a writer's thing. Main characters NEED! a reason and goal to accomplish. Otherwise a story would be boring

[@amaek8062]

These were pretty much my exact thoughts when I was watching the film in the theater, as well as during every rewatch since. Can you imagine the trauma and emotional/mental issues that Jack must have? Poor kid. If anyone ever needs a therapist it’s Jack Frost.

[@Witheringdawn2]

Jack must have been pretty isolated as well, and with no support group or friends for 300 years... if he were human he'd be mentally and emotionally screwed. Jack and the Moon actually were really relatable for me back when I was a Christian struggling with a being that supposedly cared about me, supposedly talked to others, but completely ignored me even through all my attempts to reach out.

[@otakutoongamer5616]

Watching this videos just depress me more of the fact that we’ll never get a sequel

[@benraven9087]

Smarty Pants: "The moon is evil!" Eggman: "I've got this covered. ;)"

[@sleepyandsleepin]

That actually kind of opened my eyes to the Moon Man damn...

[@PRISMSHOWERS_P]

The man in the moon is a vert sad entity that needs a hug. I think he could just be so lonely. Lonely enough to have Jack Immortal?

[@danieloutloud9151]

It would appear that this entire thing would more likely be classed as a series of MacGuffins ; things that exist only to allow the plot to advance . The silence of the Man in The Moon , Jack's amnesia . the indifference of the other iconic characters . Via the lore of these Guardian Members , all of them should have been keenly aware of Jack from the moment he was born , including his after death existence . All of the Guardians , besides Jack , know all of the details of every child , including their hopes , thoughts and dreams . Thus Santa , at least , should have known his plight immediately , when he died , and restored his memories using his Christmas based powers . Nothing could have advanced as a plot point if answers were available to cure the original problem . Logic and reason can kill a lot of fictional enigmas .

[@DOT107]

I mean Jack not having memories makes sense though, at least real world wise, diving for longer than 4 min on a frozen lake can induce a temporary memory lapse or people who hadn't have oxygen on their brain for more than 3 minutes had amnesia after resuscitation. I mean Jack's been dead and woke up a few days(?)/weeks(?) after his death, that's like a no brainer. It shows that the Moon took a while before it could fully resurrect Jack as a Guardian; which could mean two thing: The Moon isn't as powerful as we thought it is, or The Moon is getting weaker by the century.

[@ethenallen1388]

1 Why wasn't your summary of Jack Frost's backstory accompanied by images of his backstory? 2 The Moon choose Jack to be a Guardian because he was a fun-loving kid who enjoyed making other children laugh and when they were in danger, put his sister's safety first. 3 To do the job he'd been appointed to, Jack had to completely break with his old life. The Moon may have decided that the least painful way of doing this was to block out his memories of that life, knowing that when he was ready to learn those details, they would be in the Tooth Fairy's archives. 4 Jack Frost had been free to make contact with the other Gaurdians, and they with him, but his mischievous nature had gotten him in trouble with both North and the Easter Bunny and even the Tooth Fairy, who had been crushing on him for a while, never bothered to reach out to him. That was not the Moon's fault. 5 The Moon was not "calling in a favor." Jack had been a Guardian since he first rose out of that lake and had been, more or less, doing what she wanted. It just that when she realized that Pitch Black was on the move, it would take all of them, including Jack to stop him and it was time to get Jack fully onboard. 6 There's an old story called the Dead Moon that tells how she was captured by ghouls, ghasts and similar creatures and buried in a swamp until some brave people found and dug her out. If we accept this as part of that world's lore, then she may have decided that humans were better suited for fighting the likes of Pitch Black then she was. It's also possible that empowering a Guardian actually takes a lot out of her and all she could do was give them warnings, advise them and hope for the best.

[@danielawesome36]

_She?_ Who's a she? Tsar Luna? The _Man_ in the Moon?

[@danielawesome36]

I'm honestly confused.

[@ethenallen1388]

@@danielawesome36 I tend to think of the Moon as female. It's a quirk I have.

[@danielawesome36]

@@ethenallen1388 Well, you may think of the moon as female, but Tsar Luna, a fictional character, definitely isn't. I mean, let the Man have his pronouns untouched. No offense😅

[@jackrabbit3472]

In tooth fairy's defense I bet she woulda but she kinda works nonstop

[@Justin-_-Time]

I too thought it was weird he had amnesia but I assumed it was a result of dying.

[@ffineful]

Now imagine if man somehow fought jack, while saying SHOW ME A GOOD TIME JACK

[@crystaltriforce64]

a death that horrifying could have easily caused a fugue state leaving him with no memory of his life before

[@renfresita3404]

Jack didn't deserve all the treatment he had from the man of the moon and SPECIALLY the easter bunny, they all saw him being lost as a teen and none of them were there for him >:[

[@shadangel47]

I always thought the reasons why Jack had memory loss is cause he died. We see in the film that it was around sunset when Jack falls in the ice, and he was left dead until around midnight, leaving his brain damaged until MoM could resurrected him. The film shows that MoM's only way of communication is via the crystal in Clause's workshop. Plus, the MoM is tied to the moon, so while they can know anything that happens, I think it's related to the orientation of the moon it's self, so they can't do everything at anytime, it's only when the moon is in the right place, that's why MoM need the Guardians in the first place

[@js66613]

Death doesn't explain memory loss on it's own. Maybe trauma made him repress it, but come on... Also, with the amount of brain damage Jack would've developed, he wouldn't have a brain at all, and wouldn't be able to function at all... besides, apparently, memories can now just be stored in teeth and whatever... so why didn't he just have Toothiana give him back his teeth. And actually, Jack said that the Moon told him he was Jack Frost. As far as I'm concerned, the Man in the Moon wanted to keep Jack oblivious of his past and invisible to make him desperate for acceptance by anyone including some questionable people - with the Guardians are - and make him the perfect boy servant.

[@sithotaku]

"the lil bastard on the moon" hahaha

[@Majesticon]

Unfortunately, Man in Moon had no control over Jack's destiny except to choose him as a Guardian.

[@TamTroll]

Didn't the Man in the Moon create Pitch as well? And then he proceeded to really give Pitch the raw end of the deal. Maybe "Moony" doesn't have control over what powers his raised spirits get, but it seems really off to me that he'd make a nightmare spirit like Pitch and then not give him some kind of purpose or reason for existence. From what i can remember, Pitch kind of had the same "nobody believes in him" situation as Jack did. He was only doing what he was doing so he could get the same recognition as Santa and the others, he just wanted to be seen and respected. If Pitch didn't exist to be the villain, Jack might have taken exactly the same route and become the villain himself.

[@MrAGNTJ]

or... the amnesia was an accident, and the man in the mood isn't as all powerful as we think, he doesn't know everything, he doesn't have full control of everything that happens, he is just a normal living being with defects like all of us seriously why doesn't people ever think of this option in any story?

[@DibbzTV]

I mean, the moon and sun in mythology are not the nicest of dieties. The sun is relentless and the moon is mysterious. Morality isn’t in their nature

[@matt-thorn]

I just assumed it was hard for the man on the moon to communicate with people on earth. He is all the way on the moon after all.

[@bobsterclause342]

Starting off as a new creature with new memories is one thing, and not to mention, he is a born immortal guardian, not just a being. He has to have the right experiences. If he knew everything and his purpose, he might not be too happy about it or mentally capable, and worried about his ability to become. He wouldn't be ready. He would be just a kid. This would not have worked.

[@cjrouse9508]

Jacks life would be worse if he didn't have is memory wiped. He either comes back to life and can't interact with or be seen by his family then gets to watch them in misery followed by slowly watching them die. Or he can interact and still slowly watches them die.

[@net343]

Member that the man on the moon also created Pitch

[@vittoriogirolimetto6083]

Guys listen up! Some weeks ago i watched a del Toro's post on twitter about Rise of the guardians. I commented by writing "still hoping for a sequel" and ... Peter Ramsey liked my comment! So maybe there's still hope! ❤

[@kaden1991]

I haven't read any of the books, but Man in the Moon (MitM) seems almost Lovecraftian in portrayal here, he doesn't think of things from mortal perspectives like with Jack's social negligence and erasing memories of his past life. Interestingly however the way he operates appears similar to a being of fate, in that he seems to know not only what needs to happen but also knows those involved need to be unguided or the result will not be the same. Like the one kid capable of seeing Jack happened to be right where he is needed at the time it is needed, it all just lines up too perfectly for it not to be preordained. Saving Jack's life and his connection to the guardians are good things, but one has to wonder what the MitM's goal and purpose is. With so little to go off of seeing the MitM as either the ultimate villain or hero in this story is a valid interpretation.

[@Mediados]

I kind of feel like the Guardians had a responsibility here. They had been spirits for hundreds of years at this point, they definitely should have sought Jack out to guide him in his new form and help him find a purpose.

[@azulBjort_1406]

Yeah i did get that lingering feling as a kid

[@NCTStudio]

William Joyce: I didn’t write that

[@bellaNwonderlnd]

it was probably done for a conection with the aduencie while maintaining story, it creates a vunrablitly for the protaginst and all that

[@tripplel8495]

This movie is my comfort movie and I watch it every year. But BOI do I LOVEEEEE watching people rip into MIM and The Guardians for how they treated Jack!!! I've ranted and raved to my friends countless of times about how I want to deck Bunny, MIM, and the others. Great video!!!

[@Kiinotasha]

I always took the books and movies as separate things because there is a lot that was different between the two, so I am going to go strictly on what was presented in the movies and cut out anything from the books. The thing that most people tend to miss about this movie is that it outright states that the Guardians and Jack ARENT the only other spirits that the moon has chosen. When Mim (Man in Moon) was telling the Guardians his choice for who should be chosen next as a Guardian Sandy and Tooth talk about the Leprechaun and Bunny says 'please not the ground hog'. So we have no idea how many spirits are out there, though we can guess that every holiday probably has one, and, since Jack doesn't have a holiday, that there are also those that don't. Why then do some get chosen? No idea, since that isn't really explained, but Mim sees something about them and deems them worthy of being reborn. In light of this, I don't think Jack's memories were lost on purpose, though why they were I have no idea. Maybe because of the way he died? Because it was so traumatic? I also don't think Mim is some, all knowing, all seeing being, I think he just has a good sense of people. I mean what better way to fight fear than with fun? Because that's what Jack is, above being a spirit of winter and wind, he is a spirit of fun. Not only that, but we can assume if Pitch is alive, that Mim brought him back to life as the Boogeyman, since the only way that we have seen that people come back is from him choosing them. Which means he knows Pitch, and knows what will work against him. The Guardians ignoring him is another thing that I don't think they do on purpose, except Bunny who has a grudge. I think all of the Guardians are just so caught up in their duties that they don't interact with the outside world at all, let alone a random spirit that Mim woke up. What about other spirits? No idea since we see nothing of them in this movie and wouldn't even know there were more had they not been talked about. For all we know Jack could go out of his way to avoid them. We have 300 years that we have no idea what happened in them, except the fact that Jack felt like was alone, that he had no idea who he was prior to being chosen, and that he at some point got new clothes.

[@angzarrpsyco]

I love this movie so so much, and I would absolutely love to see a sequel

[@HardDanX]

I think Moon wiped Jack's memories because he was reborn from tragic death. Jack would forcefully try to contact his family and friends after realizing that he in some form alive. That would lead him to be some kind of ghost for people, not the spirit of winter and joy. 300 years is enough for him to get used to that role of a spirit and after finding out his past, just letting it go and continue with his new purpose. Cruel, but I don't see any other way for Jack to get piece with his new life.

[@Tajealos]

Holy hell I forgot this movie was a thing Thank you for reminding me to watch this again

[@guywhowatchesvideos-z2e]

But Jack frost was this super powerful being who served the man in the moon for thousands of years, but fell in love with the humans and was transformed into one of them, losing his original memories. Jack is that person

[@DragonFae16]

This video has completely changed the way I look at this movie. Thanks?

[@ckinggaming5bucketmadness766]

Ah, it’s been a long time since I watched this, it’s a pretty good movie and I loved it, this will surely be interesting.

[@buzzwithdrip6347]

Ok but we don't know that the moon guy was the one who stole his memories

[@ArtyKibbles2190]

I think the moons reasoning for doing it is because Jack could be the most powerful thing on earth because as we saw in the movie the other guardians powers weaken when people don’t think they are real but literally no one even knew Jack Frost exists but he is powerful so if the world knew that he existed then there’s no telling how powerful he could be and the moon didn’t want to take that chance for something bad to happen, And next part is also just a theory but has no evidence it exists, I believe the moon had tried to make Jack Frost before but let him keep his memory’s and let things believe he was real but the power got their head and they caused the ice age.

[@Luke-ow9ku]

The Man in the Moon is playing the sims and Jack drowning in the pond was the equivalent of deleting the stairs in the pool.

[@persephoneblack888]

I will say that even in the tarot, the moon is considered to represent something which is secretive and hidden. It doesn't surprise me that the moon functions this way in the movie. It makes sense that the moon erased the memories of Jack Frost because having attachments wouldn't serve Jack in the longterm. As for the motivations of the Moon/man in the moon...it's strange but it seems like it all had a purpose in the end.

[@arosegaming4793]

Honestly? I've never thought of the man in the moon as a 'good guy.' I consider him true neutral. I think he likes to maintain balance. I do wonder if the resurrection process was difficult or time-consuming and the memory loss was a side effect, and not intended. I do think Jack was selected to become a spirit and a Guardian *because* of how he died: saving someone else. He was not chosen by chance, and he was not revived as a spirit out of kindness and benevolence. He was chosen because his personality meant he could fill the gap in the hearts of the guardians and ease difficult times for humans, and he didn't need to be told or controlled, he would do it because thats who he was. Also, isnt it odd Pitch Black exists? Unless there's another spirit like man on the moon, then the man on the moon was the one who made Pitch black a spirit. So, why would you create both a difficult villain for humans and loving hope giving spirits that can interact with humans? Because you want to keep the emotions of people changing and growing in order to maintain balance of the planet. True Neutral.

[@Scissorie]

Yoooooo, this man can write a serious fanfic in his spare time

[@Joseph1_00]

i just want a sequel man, thats all i want

[@Alexandra-yi8cg]

You know, I’m really amazed how great Jack is written. Like, he is really relatable, and he doesn’t seem ordinary, no, on the contrary, I watch him during the movie and feel that I’ve never seen something like this before. Of course, it’s wrong, I have seen similar things, but the way Jack is introduced and handled by the writers in the movie makes him seem… fresh to me, in every way, complicated, conflicted and though tragic very charming also. So I don’t know, I LOVE the character of Jack Frost and even happy that he has only one movie, because nowadays I’m not sure if the writers could pull him off as well as they have already, but in the second movie, and it could be disastrous for the character in the whole

[@SubjectOR-dt2tx]

I've been sleeping for 100 million years and nothing has changed

[@omololaalimi1300]

I need a part two of this movie 🍿

[@captainstroon1555]

The Man in the Moon suffers from Big Good syndrome. He's suposed to be that godlike benevolent force, but characters like this usually are plot hole machines at best and poison for a coherent story at worst. Especially if it's suposed to be an underdog story like Guardians. Why can't he just fix everything? Well, he could, but then there wouldn't be a story. This results in Big Good characters always being absent or uninvolved in the main plot aside from the occasional deus ex machina or pointing the heroes back on track moment.

[@Roleplayer101]

I don’t really think that we can blame Pitch for being evil because The Moon made him that way and also left Pitch to be alone which made him angry.

[@karolinakuc4783]

I guess Moon would like people not to interact with ghosts to prevent ghost from being kept by sorrow. Also moon is likely such a powerful diety with so much on its head it just finds it hard to put all pieces together.

[@noneofyourbuisness1679]

While I do think it's pretty shitty of the MoM to just leave Jack high and dry like that without any guidance or advice, I do at least see some logic in his reason for removing Jack's memories (assuming that is something he is in control of; we aren't exactly given the full low down and we don't know how much the movie diverges from the books). Imagine being completely invisible to your friends and family. They've assumed you died, but you're right there in the room with them. No matter how much you shout or scream, they can't hear you and any attempt to touch them or be touched by them gets you treated like a ghost. Maybe you can knock stuff over and they notice, but how do they know it's you? They could rationalize it as physics or bad luck, maybe even think it's a ghost - but then maybe they don't know it's you. So you stay with them, trying to take comfort in knowing that they're near. You watch as they grow old, maybe have kids of their own, constantly lamenting in one form or another how you never got to see all that they're going through, even though you're right there. And when it's time for them to finally pass on, you can do nothing. No words of comfort, no final touch. When the time finally comes, there's no reunion - you're immortal and, unless another spirit feels like whacking you off, you can't die. You're forever separated from them. I think, at the very least, the MoM's reason for removing Jack's memories was to spare him the emotional pain and trauma of being cut off from his family. Not saying it justifies everything else that happened to Jack, but I think it explains why he had his memories erased when all the other Guardians didn't.

[@MyVwccStar2023]

I actually agree now when I first watched the movie. I didn't really think that, but then I realized it's kind of true all the moon told him was his name and when jack would ask questions he gets no answer....also by the way in the movie he's 17 when he dies I found out he's 14 in the book but 17 in the movie and in the movie he was just a normal human before he became jack frost not a night light or something

[@stevethedude.4586]

the hubris of man is believing that we are above nature and that our thoughts and feelings override everything else.

[@marsjake8]

If Bloodbourne has taught us anything, anything from the Moon probably isnt your friend

[@delfinal7560]

Awesome video!

[@debater452]

The sky gods have a history of abandoning their minions

[@aoto8897]

This movie is supposed to be connected to all holidays, That’s what makes it special