How The Rolling Stones Screwed The Verve 😿

How did the Rolling Stones make $5 million from a song they had nearly nothing to do with? The Verve’s “Bittersweet Symphony” uses a sample of a Stones cover (which is really a wholly new composition), while the Stones original is itself based on an uncredited interpolation of a gospel standard…yet for 20 years the only musicians getting paid from “Bittersweet” were Mick & Keith. One of the biggest songwriting ripoffs of all time, in an industry rife with them, but happily there is a (bittersweet) ending. #shorts #songwriting

[@manolokonosko2868]

It took Allen Klein's death for his son Jody to finally settle amicably with all the people that bastard had screwed in his lifetime. Klein must be rolling in his grave.

[@Briskrainbow0]

Good. Ain't no rest for the wicked. pin intended.

[@tonydoherty2190]

Did Allen klein rip the beatles off for millions

[@gvgv3515]

​@@tonydoherty2190 NOT ONLY DID HE RIP THEM OFF, he was the last nail in the coffin of the Beatles break up!! Paul saw through Klein's false charm and predicted his thievery! The other 3 , believed Klein and were ready to sign over the rights to the catalog! Paul wouldve been out voted had he not filed a lawsuit to keep the rights within the group! The 3 weren't happy being sued, let alone by their bandmate and friend. It ultimately broke up the Beatles!!

[@tonydoherty2190]

@@gvgv3515 so klein did one decent thing then shame he wasn't there from the start in the beatles career

[@HarryInEdi]

Was just coming to the comments to mention that Allen Klein was an absolutely horrendous shit, who somehow got away with everything - glad you got here first. (Paul McCartney was the only right one on Klein)

[@michaeldarby9029]

To call Allen Klein a scumbag is an insult to scumbags. He pretty much wrote the book on how to screw over your pop star clients.

[@scottanos9981]

He's worse than a scumbag, he's a chew

[@tedstyle3798]

There's another word to call him and it is the most accurate thing ✡️

[@scottanos9981]

@@tedstyle3798 yep 🇮🇱

[@richardhunter132]

he didn't screw them over in this case, he got them an insanely good deal

[@peterh1353]

Look at it this way. Being a bank worker is boring, being a bank worker who robs a bank is interesting. He fooled the Beatles and the Stones by taking an interest in them and listening to their music. The artist knew he was a shark, but thought he was a shark working for them! Wrong.😅

[@allrequiredfields]

If there's a hell, Allen Klein is cleaning toilets there with his tongue.

[@tedmich]

FYI there isn't, his heirs are enjoying amazing luxury ;)

[@aubreysong]

​@@tedmich apparently people like him has no remorse and loves playing victim indeed

[@snatchhog]

​@@aubreysong A true genocider? 😅

[@angelicbean7635]

​@@tedmich there is very much a hell . Saying there is not will save no one from going there if that be their choice of destination.

[@tedmich]

@@angelicbean7635 LOL!

[@aminoto-3]

Very generous of them to start ‘sharing’ the royalties… after the song has already been rinsed to death and they’ve made millions from it.. if they had any moral fibre they would pay back everything they earned from it.

[@williamtomlinson4322]

Life’s not that simple. The money likely dosent exist anymore or has been distributed or diluted in someway. It’s also not the sons job to go around fixing his dads mistakes, that was extremely kind of him and a massive expression of goodwill.

[@jimmorrison9287]

​@William Tomlinson Keith Richards and mic jagger combined are worth a billion dollars. They could easily pay it if they wanted to. They made millions off a song they had virtually nothing to do with while simultaneously being worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

[@aminoto-3]

There ya go William.. jim knows the score.

[@darkpill]

They didn’t start sharing. As part of the deal they had to give back all funds. Legally the stones where in deep shit for fraud.

[@bear1245]

Yep. Absolutely scummy behaviour

[@ricccliff3882]

It really was a bitter-sweet symphony.

[@meinbherpieg4723]

there it is

[@thjonez]

wow

[@BooksForHumans]

Best

[@Kim-dm4yb]

Why were the Rolling Stones even involved, ridiculous. They should have never received anything in royalties. None of The Verve song is even in the Rolling Stone's song...how twisted the way Klein justified everything. The music industry is so disgusting. I can't believe The Verve got basically nothing. Klein is beyond horrific, wow. Happy Kleins son, Jagger, and Richards all worked out something.

[@stevecarter8810]

Because this is the business party of the music business. Intellectual property lawyers looking for ways to make connections and extract revenue. That's just one part of the predatory underbelly of the music biz.

[@ekklesiast]

the same notes played by violins are in the Rolling Stones song played on guitar

[@FedSmoker64]

The verve didnt create the sample, they stole it. Rolling stones label owned the rights to the song. It is just and fair that roling stones protect their owned property. You cant just steal someone else's music and use it in your song. Points to the verve for trying to sample it correctly but they did not do it correctly, and thus stole the music. It's convoluted but the verve stole the music, end of story.

[@FedSmoker64]

The fact that rolling stones stole from the original band is another topic. The point being they owned the rights to the song at this point.

[@Stahlgewitter]

It's the way a....certain group who is overrepresented in law who I can't name lest the comment be taken down...operate.

[@davidphipps9138]

According to Keith Richards it was out of their hands and 100 percent the doing of Allen Klein. He said he didn’t care and was fine with letting it go, so it really wasn’t the Stones who screwed Richard Ashcroft, it was Allen Klein.

[@bennyfairfax1]

So he was complicit

[@zackattack635]

@@bennyfairfax1the Stones barely have control of their catalog. Early stuff virtually no control. The record industry is run by ✡️ gangsters and their sleazy lawyers. Kanye isn’t lying.

[@CC-oi9mc]

@@bennyfairfax1 Just being keith richards doesn't have the sway that you think it does. In that era, the producers and managers were untouchable and had immense power over the artists. What are you imagining, Keith Richards getting in Allen Klein and a bunch of lawyers faces? that's ridiculous man, even the beatles didn't have the clout to do shit like that lol

[@ronnelson7828]

The person who composed the music was paid something like £100 by the Stones management in 1965. He should be the one getting something for his work.

[@collinsmcrae]

Why? You said it in your own comment. He SOLD It. When you sell soemthing, it means that it's not yours anymore.

[@ronnelson7828]

He composed and arranged a totally different piece of music. They made millions off it. He got nothing. GREED!

[@collinsmcrae]

@@ronnelson7828 It's called business. If you sell your product for X ammount, the person who bought it isn't obligated in any way to pay you dividends from the earnings they flipped out of it. If I buy your house for 200k, and turn around and sell it a few years later for a 500k, should I give you some? Sure, it would be nice, but it's not an ethical obligation.

[@peterh1353]

Lots of artists get nothing. They love music and they prefer it to working in a factory.

[@redpillmafia960]

What I heard about the story was that Allen Klein owned the publishing for this song from the Rolling Stones… technically any mechanical royalties would have actually went to the guy who recorded the orchestra since it was his audio and not The Rolling Stones audio that he sampled from.. No one in The Rolling Stones got a penny of royalties from that song… it all went to Allen. So when Allen died the publishing fell back into The Rolling Stones hands. It was then that The Rolling Stones made a deal with the Verve so that the Verve could start getting paid from that song again.

[@SeanReyesGirdle]

This was all handled by attorneys, the Stones couldn't care less.

[@dannieleanor]

@@SeanReyesGirdlethat’s why it’s always good to have a great attorney who does care, makes everyone look phenomenal 😬

[@ALucas73]

Time to fire your lawyer that didn't license the rights to the sample.

[@officeyoga4679]

I always thought they got screwed on this.

[@jacksonvega7751]

Klein was a monster

[@christopherlewis1315]

I will bet where he is at now is really, really hot. 😂

[@WhiteyMcCrackerson]

a golllum

[@robwalker7575]

I know monsters....they want nothing to do with him 😂

[@stevecarter8810]

You and I can both guess how much the staples singers got out off this

[@ALucas73]

I think The Staples wrote the lyrics but The Rolling Stones wrote new music for it and the orchestra version was based on that music. Since The Verve didn't use the lyrics that's why the Staples got no royalties.

[@stevecarter8810]

​@@ALucas73 this is about publishing rights. Klein owns the rights to the song. If you use the song, in whatever recording, even if it sounds nothing like it, he can come after you. Similar happened when someone jokingly credited John Cage for a short silence on their track. Cage had a famous 4:33 track of silence, and the rights owners in that went after this other artist because that particular silence was credited as being part of 4:33. It's a game of power on top of the legal technicalities and has no moral or artistic component. The staples singers will have been successfully sidelined from having any claim, ultimately because klein had good lawyers and understood the power game. Notice how the presenter says 'inspired by' in the video. That will be there for precise legal reasons

[@rahamanhudson1573]

Yeah, but how much did the Staples get from the Stones version that obviously borrow greatly from theirs? As for the genius of the strings in the Verve song, they seem to owe a much greater debt to Andrew Loog Oldham than Jagger or Richards. His mistake was not getting publishing credit for his contribution back in the ‘60’s in his instrumental version.

[@tazbee3920]

The Staple Singer's or The Staples Singers...

[@thomdrolet2624]

Do we need to start a Ye was right jar?

[@grantstewart457]

Klein was the epitome of the evil manager screwing his clients.

[@xnetpc]

The verve should have gone the the original song’s rights holder and licensed their version of the song. Then they could have gotten session musicians to recreate the sample in the style of the modern version. When the movie tank girl was being made, universal approached soundgarden’s label licensing their cover of Devo’s “girl you want”, but the label wanted too much money for it. Universal then approached Devo for the rights to the song, then hired Devo to perform the song in the style of sound garden’s cover. I don’t know why that tactic isn’t used more often.

[@jm6734]

Music copyright laws are f'up. Who affords the bigger most expensive sociopath lawyers wins.

[@audionmusic2787]

That all business.

[@starman2089]

Man thank you for sharing these gems of musical history with us!

[@zachhenderson7982]

Recently, an artist called Ren did a retake/remix of this song. Instead of The Verve suing or pulling copyright stuff, the sent Ren a guitar. (Its a cool song too, check Ren out and be amazed how different each song is. )

[@user-du8lu5qr4g]

"You are now about to witness the strength of street knowledge"?

[@Thesecondwebgem]

I don’t know if you remember me dude but I commented on a video in early January about how I wanted to go back in time to the 60s and 70s and listen all the great music live. Every single day I wish I could watch another one of your videos by just couldn’t remember your name and this is the first one I saw in so long and I’m so glad that you’re doing so good and gained more popularity in just 3 months 😊. more people are seeing your videos. I commented on rock the casbah video

[@twiggyman90]

Bro your shorts are amazing. I've watched a few. Got yourself a new sub 🙂

[@cowel8734]

Reminds me of the Napster days when all these rockers who say "we should all share and love" were shown to be hypocrites once when it was their turn to share lol. Millionaires pinching pennies out of us commoners lol

[@alasdairduncan3796]

At the end of the day everyone knows that the song is a Verve song and they will go down in history for making such a masterpiece out of that sample .

[@HarryToeface]

Exactly, their song was wayyy better than the stones song

[@jrmy198523]

I HATE that song

[@TheBirdHouse]

But short 5 million dollars. For not doing business the right way. Crazy.

[@domdraper3221]

Yea they can buy shit at the shop with their street credit.

[@sarkycutt9611]

A couple of inaccuracies...they requested to use the sample and were given 15 secs which was repeated throughout so it broke the contract. The royalties were signed over to Richard Ashcroft so he receives them directly

[@SweetSirenia]

But he didn't get back pay, right? The vast majority of the earnings from the song were made in the '90s and early '00s, so it's not much coming in now. It would be nice if Mick and Keith "returned" some of that money -- here's hoping it happened or will happen.

[@nickphaux]

Damn that makes me wish everyone would try and make the song chart again so people start buying albums and singles so he can get some of his money 😢.

[@ebonix33]

And the BLACK group got 0%

[@anthonytaylor7928]

Its not just a black group its the legendary staple singers

[@jamessouth3808]

Well their song was based on an old folk song, that no one knows who wrote. No one has claim to it

[@ArmandoMPR]

Is we are all being honest, the sample they used made the damn song.

[@matthewroberts3724]

BSS also took the melody from the stones song. There’s not much original about the verve’s version musically speaking. Whoever produced it deserves most of the praise

[@deezynar]

That melody is an old folk song that is long past copyright called Weavin' Way.

[@Ep0nz]

It honestly makes the song that much more meaningful…lyrics literally coming to life. One of my absolute favorite songs, lucky man is another gem from the band!

[@the_original_Bilb_Ono]

"who cares about credit? I want the monies" - a True session musician

[@vladimirmihajlovic2485]

The Rolling Stones had nothing to do with the case because they didn't own the rights themselves.

[@HerculesRockefellerESQ]

"Whoo... those verve royalty checks are down about 95% from when it came out, we can give them the publishing now."

[@goss1961]

Mick and Keith could've done something about it sooner if they wanted to. My respect for them bottomed out when I heard about this, and it has never come back.

[@danielanereu3799]

Only Richard could do such beautiful music. The one and only

[@timothya.olmeda7299]

But it was the riveting lyrics to the song and the backbeat that staggered the world in which everyone noticed them and how they became a household name. Not to mention yet another fantastic album by the band.

[@trancendental5373]

It really is a bittersweet symphony

[@trancendental5373]

Ironically someone copied my comment 😂

[@specialroy6087]

There is an interview, I think with Keith Richards (check that , I'm pretty sure Keith) , where he said he never had a problem with Richard Ashcroft's "Bittersweet Symphony" and didn't care that the Verve used the melody at all ...That it was industry lawyers through the Stones original record label that caused all the problem... To the best of my memory Keith went on to say something like he was barely aware the Andrew Oldham's version even existed...He knew instrumentals like that were being produced but again had little or nothing to do with the Rolling Stones... Crazy sh*t!... The music industry is nuts!

[@specialroy6087]

The Verve...Great band and a great song!

[@NoMoreLullabies]

They really are amazing!

[@vivisects-and-regicide]

All this interesting information presented in front of a Sisters of Mercy poster - respect!

[@colonelcrackerz2320]

The Verve were utterly shafted in every regard. I cant ever listen to Bittersweet Symphony without thinking about all the injustice that occurred

[@brianhartline1197]

Those violin melodies sound triumphant.

[@ChrisBrooksGuitar]

Here's the thing you missed, the vocal hook of Bittersweet Symphony is a half speed version of the verse in The Last Time. Slow down "well I told you once and I told you twice" etc. Not just interpolation.

[@Dragantraces]

Allen Klein...smh Macca had him dead to rights.

[@mitchellhughes5180]

Yep

[@johndrews206]

They didn't screw them. Copyright infringement. Should have paid to use the sample. Not only that. The stones gave back the money

[@grahamthompson2594]

Jim Belushi as Ron DeKline in the Rutles movie is brilliant casting.

[@shanematthews1803]

The Verve bittersweet symphony and film clip is a masterpiece. So relatable.❤

[@kidislegend5gaming851]

U earned a subscriber i love music and when i saw the rick james episode i was like okay u know ya stuff ❤💪🏾

[@5roundsrapid263]

I’m glad they got some royalties. The story when it came out is that The Stones only gave them £1000.

[@Awesomeficationify]

That's what happened. It took Klein's death for them to start making money.

[@modev4163]

This song is a masterpeice they deserve all the credit

[@Greg-om2hb]

The world would be a better place if that riff had never been created. Also, the Staples’s song is a masterpiece.

[@phillipdavis8222]

Trace it back to wear it started. They should get all the credit, recognition, and royalties.

[@alabastardmasterson]

What's up with the ESG shirt?

[@MrsZambezi]

"Bitter Sweet Symphony" is an exact copy of the Andrew Oldham arrangement of "The last Time". Next time Ashcroft, compose your own stuff.

[@barrybmusic7742]

I always wondered how this happened. Thanks for clearing it up.

[@judymcgaugh6480]

i loved this song. the music is awesome and magicial..

[@georgeprice4212]

The story I heard was that Jagger and Richards finally decided to return the publishing to Ashcroft, fully and completely. There was no mention of a Jody Klein.

[@user-yg97f5hfvh]

"So if you're wondering-" "How these guys made 5 million dollars..."

[@jamesiii4921]

True, I think about this often with other songs aswell.

[@iLL_Corvo]

Bitchin' shades broh! Where can I get a pair??

[@joshualewis2480]

I love this song!

[@streamofconsciousness5826]

Looks like a great example of "he who has the best lawyers..." A Grand, that song was everywhere for months. It must have been a kick in the teeth every time he heard it.

[@rmartin7558]

The Verve ripped them off and they screwed the Verve. Right.

[@genacarroll9791]

Give them the credit and money due this song was fire

[@tconnolly9820]

You can be as brilliant and creative as you can be but if you don't take care of the legal and financial end of the business, you're going to get screwed!

[@vinny.deadmou5d46]

They didn't forget to register for publishing rights they just didn't in hopes nobody would notice the tune bc they left out a main hook n this was also back in the mid 90s before internet was really big

[@bjorn-jameshanrahan8183]

That song title was a self fulfilling prophecy lol

[@medix1203]

I guarantee klien greased some hands to get that passed through a judge

[@carlamacdonald4692]

So what!! Love how influence makes influence..,...❤️

[@df4196]

This is one the best songs ever written.

[@brianbennett5887]

Amazing song that really makes you think. So glad the verve is getting paid .

[@FuturePast2019]

The story was they sample more than they said. And Stones catalog? The first 7 years. Good years

[@chadleschasin2893]

Another travesty is Ashcrofts rewriting of history to exclude the other band members contributions to the production of Urban Hymns specifically Nick Mcabes magic in making a bland album sound as good as it does , no one would even remember this song ….. the fact he received no producers credit is a crime !!!

[@gregoryjones1426]

I remember that controversy.

[@northernbrother1258]

Man...talk about bittersweet symphony!

[@CagedPaps]

Jagger and Richards also won a Brit award for it, which is the real mad part. They did relinquish song writing credits as soon as Klein died.

[@gregoryjones1426]

Too many people who can’t make art screw the others that can!

[@SirThomasDrake]

The Verve was also once sued by jazz label Verve Records over their name.

[@jamesmatthew01]

What a bittersweet story

[@Nowhere788]

I like that song.. too bad for the Verve.😢

[@lennyjohnson9331]

It's cuz Mick Jagger went to business school b4 he became a musician

[@martinD1]

My heart breaks so for both bands .. Slaving over guitars and songs . They both went broke charging hundreds for tickets . I don't think I can bear it all .. I must retreat to a safe place and contemplated.. 😢😢😢

[@pinkfreudcomment]

The rule of remixes should have applied. The guy who bumps up my old creation should also eat u know...in some countries you can't even copyright the arrangement or instrumental parts...

[@PM-qp5he]

You have your A cord B C D E F G. They can only be arranged in a certain way so many times. Basically, the music industry is one law suit after another. That's why you hear so many musicians talking about "making a deal with the devil"

[@jonathanross149]

The lawyer that screwed that up should be sued for malpractice.

[@EricArchuleta-ii9kz]

I was just asking for this one thanks..

[@user-ec8kw5ri4k]

Cool shades. Interesting story. Concise video.

[@hydrotilling7043]

I like that song I like that college movie it was a good movie

[@sbfcapnj]

What a great system.

[@MaddDoggie]

And the Black people who are at the foundation of the song got nothing

[@hlowrylong]

Not thinking the sounds are even closely related….

[@jamessouth3808]

It was an old folk song, no one knows who wrote it. So it’s anybody’s 😜

[@maddyschoonmusic742]

Dude woke up and said,”Howard Stern.”

[@balthiersgirl2658]

Still makes me sick they did that to the Verve

[@joshuarose5168]

A lesson in making sure that you have crossed all your ts and dotted all your is when using somebody else’s work in your own.

[@obscuredoblivion444]

Bittersweet indeed

[@nicksaggio6155]

That would burn my soul for the rest of my life!!

[@BlackbettyBamdalam]

My ringtone fie 20 yrs

[@foxbor0]

They didn't ask permission. They didn't get screwed. Quite simple really

[@jay-rk1mn]

As soon as I heard klien😅

[@beezysbeatz4924]

Get an agent who is also a good lawyer and you won't get fucked out of $$

[@raulsalazar6362]

Talk about bitter sweet

[@mgtowvalues]

I listened to the songs and yes, they are the same musically. This short mis-represented the melody and chord progression similarity - and thus is manipulation. Whether it was worth the money or not, Bittersweet Symphony is a reworking of the melody and chord progression of that Stones' song.