How The Show Ruined Davos Seaworth As Stannis' Hand of the King

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Did you know in the books Davos Seaworth wasn't responsible for Stannis losing his fleet? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
A Game of Thrones theory explained, prepare for The Winds of Winter release date with a theory video of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire book series and something to think about while waiting for HBO's House of the Dragon Season 2.
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[@justdan9264]

Davos became a generic good guy in the later seasons, while in the books, he is more complex, compelling, and currently on the way to Skagos to search for Rickon Stark

[@Okay-jojo]

Where was rickon headed tho?

[@justdan9264]

​@@Okay-jojowdym? Rickon is at Skagos

[@jcurn4922]

This statement could be made for almost every character. I used to get frustrated by the show. Then one day I had the enlightening thought to think of them as two separate entities, not even related to each other… it helps. Rest in peace Dick crab, forever in our hearts mah dude

[@Wordlifematt]

@@jcurn4922 the book has no ending and some parts are a bit complicated to adapt to the show.

[@NeroLucife666]

@@Wordlifemattnot true. Just laziness

[@hsgame4088]

The moment he was made Hand in the books is legendary. I get goose bumbs anytime I read it. "Now Rise Ser Davos and rise as Lord of the rainwood,admiral of the narrow sea and hand of the king" "Your grace I am not fit-" "There is no man fitter"

[@TheSimmus]

"You are also one of if not the last loyal man alive"

[@lindsay9838]

Right after ass-kissing Axell Florent brags to Davos on their way up to see Stannis about being able to see visions in the fire now because the Lord trusts him and then threatens to push Davos off the bridge if he doesn’t support him becoming Hand in front of Stannis. It’s so satisfying when a furious Axell gets dismissed from the room and Davos gets rewarded.

[@hsgame4088]

@@lindsay9838 "Your grace it would please- "It would please me,for you to leave" Lol

[@chinmayamahapatra6712]

​@@hsgame4088 the mannis

[@Limpshot_McGee]

“I woke up this morning in this man’s prison…”

[@underwarboy5065]

I love how the book makes a theme relation to both Tyrion and Davos. Both are the underdogs/unwanted members of their power system, and only receive this position for pure exterior preconceptions (Davos for lack of nobility and Tyrion for his appearance). Even then, both were invaluable assets to their respective parties.

[@Random_UserName4269]

Davos is actually a good person tho.

[@raultherad2380]

Yes agreed but he still lacked nobility in the eyes of Stannis, as he was still a smuggler in his past

[@m4eou]

Stannis say he prefer one man like Davos than all the noble kissing his ass, he regards Davos so high he name him hand of the king, in the book is obvious ​@@raultherad2380

[@jedi098765]

Davos is GRRM’s palate cleanser, showing how a good person can be successful in the world of ice and fire. But the chances are slim and it’s really really hard.

[@concept5631]

More how a lowborn person can become successful under the right circumstances. ​@@jedi098765

[@Ironcorgi2]

a big part of stannis’ arc in the books was him learning the hard way that nobility isn’t a good way to ascertain merit. He put an unseasoned commander in charge of blackwater whose only claim to competence was his name. Then he almost blew the campaign in the north by trying to attack the dreadfort. It was only after listening to smugglers and bastards was he able to get victories. It’s one of the reasons I like book stannis

[@tyrannicfool2503]

I disagree, he never thinks nobility equals capability but rather he needed to keep his new unreliable allies content by giving them commands.

[@marcosalmeida3947]

@@tyrannicfool2503 It's neither. He remarks to Jon that men of high birth would not obey low-born members of the night's watch. It's not so much about keeping unreliable allies content as it is about not spitting on allies's - old and new - faces. It took him a while to learn that him and others can compromise.

[@lluewhyn]

@@tyrannicfool2503 Concur. It's less about unlearning prejudices (that he doesn't really have) than learning that he can work around the prejudices of his allies.

[@The.Orange.Wizard]

Stannis’s biggest problem is he has very few powerful allies, so he has to work with who he’s got and has to make many compromises to keep them as he lacks the raw persuasion and Charisma of other rulers to keep them on loyalty alone, with the exception of those like Davos, who follow him because they know how just he is.

[@moneytalks1219]

To be fair. Ser imry thought they might use wildfire but no one would anticipate the sheer quantity used. In the books the pyromancers mention that the spells they've used for centuries to manufacture wildfire are getting easier to use(due to magic returning to the world) allowing them to make it faster and have an increased potency.

[@1993smoker]

And they found a lot from the mad Kings time on top of that

[@georgejosephk669]

But those from the mad king's time got expired, didn't they?​@@1993smoker

[@giacomoromano8842]

​@@georgejosephk669 we wish that, but the horrible reality is that wildfire gets more unstable the longer it waits and mature, it does not expire. The jars made from Aerys time are a lit powder store waiting for any stimulation to set them up and cause devastation untold.

[@jurepec5779]

@@georgejosephk669 Wild fire doesn't expire so to speak, it's even worse cause it becomes exponentionally more unstable and unpredictable but still caries all the punch it did when it was new

[@user-lf6ol1xr1b]

good to know

[@xoler2167]

D&D really doing anything and everything to sabotage Stannis’ arc

[@ACinemafanatic]

They sabotaged everyone in the show to go with the generic good guy vs bad guy plot after they ran out of ideas and rushed to go to Star Wars

[@TheFireFox36]

​@ACinemafanatic they also threw in some subversion. Gotta, gotta subvert the expectations, bro. The audience, they love the subversion.

[@martincarter6961]

It's because Stannis represents honesty and justice. That's a world D&D were unfamiliar with. I'm not saying that as a jape, I really believe that. A Song of Ice and Fire is a story about cynicism and idealism. D&D were attracted to the cynicism and the "subvert expectations" aspect of it. They don't know what to do with an honorable character.

[@Ironcorgi2]

@@martincarter6961the weird thing about stannis is they portrayed him how others perceived him. It’s like they didn’t really read the chapters with him predominantly though. Cause we never got him talking about renlys peach or the cart before the horse speech. Stannis is actually a three dimensional character he’s just written like a stereotypical high functioning autistic person. He’s unable to understand nuances in speech, very literal minded, can retain information well, is uncomfortable with intimacy. At least that’s how I read him

[@vardiganxpl1698]

Why D&D seem to hate Stannis so much? So much so it ruins other plotlines

[@helzaisme23]

I just love how the actor is born irish and absolutely perfected a geordie accent, made my geordie heart warm and i picked up on it as soon as i heard him speaking

[@JnEricsonx]

And I hated him so much when I first saw him in Dog Soldiers. Then watching GOT, quickly one I was like, "Don't kill Davos please!" Every season.

[@marielalara1202]

He was also smart enough to not wear heavy armor as he knew that if he ended up in the water he would drown do to the weight. He also knew something was not right and had a feeling they were running into a trap.

[@devinneill1310]

*due to the weight. Seems like he just figured everything out too late and by the time he realized what happened they were sitting ducks.

[@Hedgeknight420]

⁠@@devinneill1310by the time he realized what happened, they were sitting ducks* Gotta be better at it if you’re gonna nitpick 🤡

[@youtubesucks3811]

The onion knight is sooooo overlooked. He is in my top 3 for sure

[@lindsay9838]

So good. On Reddit the other day, someone asked in the ASOIAF sub who the most boring pov is and several people said Davos. One person even said he’s not necessary at all, that we should just be seeing things through the Red Woman instead, and that the only good chapter Davos has is his last one at White Harbor before the Rickon search begins😵‍💫😵‍💫 People are crazy. Davos is great on his own and we get so many great Stannis moments from him as well

[@Poisonedwight]

@@lindsay9838while I completely agree with you having chapter from Melisandre’s pov would be such incredible insight to the story and be so much more exciting

[@BenGally00]

100% ... My top 3 are 1/2 Jaime and Davos, and then Arya

[@Paulysolo]

In fairness to the show version, they set up that the plan with the wildfire is so outrageous and murderous that very few people could have anticipated it. (They do discuss that in the book too) The show does a great job of showing that Davos was cautious but had not guessed what was coming for him until it was too late. It gives him a place of personal humility to work from instead of having the constant reminder with the finger bones. The book adds so much more texture with the boom and the bridge of ships. It leads to the same result but I can't be too down on the show as that scene plays out great and Liam Cunningham really gives it socks in the aftermath of the battle. It's just what they do after that is the issue.

[@jamesflaherty59]

Agreed, Battle of Blackwater was great in the show, there was a lot the show done right in the early seasons.

[@andrewmagnet292]

Davos is honestly my favorite character. I was so thrilled that he survived.

[@ivokostov2676]

Me too, at the end of show appreciate how much shit happens he is one of last man standing.

[@officialredactor]

@@ivokostov2676 Men is crucial there

[@herozero7484]

Books>>>>>>>>>>>>show

[@eibbor171]

between the 2 which is one is finished ?

[@PoutingScout]

@@eibbor171that’s a real shit argument given how badly the show handled its ending.

[@Edmures_rampant_manhood]

​@@PoutingScoutI prefer the books, but the show will always be the canon ending. DnD care more about the story than GRRM.

[@PoutingScout]

@@Edmures_rampant_manhood very sad :’)

[@eibbor171]

@@PoutingScout lol no its not id probably would prefer books as well..if it was finished

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

I love the artist who did the first Davos picture featured here. To me, that’s the original art style. That’s the art style from a wiki of ice and fire and I was glued to that page in 2011. I remember that artist did Ned, Rhagers kingsguard, Tormund and a bunch of other characters images. Whoever did that art is a patriot and a damn fine American. I salute them and the good work they did and undoubtedly are doing currently

[@narasimhashelar6745]

I'm still glued to that page. I open it almost every day, but damn I did not know that it was 13 years old!

[@user-jo4fr8ip5b]

he’s a Russian guy though

[@saysal9671]

Stannis failed "Kings Landing siege" doesnt make sense for me both in the books & tv series. He was in the capital for years and knows it good enough. He also participated in the siege of greyjoy islands which was a harder task for obvious reasons. He defended a castle and conquered a castle so he should know how to positioned at least. Also wildfire was not a secret weapon its existence was known but seems no one cares about it. His defeat with the tywins magical just in time arrival is always seems unrealistic for me. I mean, He couldve captured the city first and then lose it or he could lose after a long siege but what happened there is a real disappointment for me.

[@olenickel6013]

There are real life examples of similar unfortunate/miraculous (depending on which side you ask) timing of reinforcements. The siege of Vienna comes to mind with the arrival of the Polish hussars breaking the Turks.

[@ShadowGamer5551]

​@@olenickel6013 thing is, that siege went on a month, 4 weeks and 1 day basically 2 months. It makes more sense for an army to make their way there in 2 months than couple of days or weeks, I don't know how long tywins force marched, note this is 2 months of SIEGING without accounting for the ottoman army marching to the city, in asoiaf this was an assault, an attack in one night, he was delayed by a storm but that wouldn't be more than a few days i believe. It's why it's called Battle of the Blackwater and not The siege of Kings landing. You may nerd emoji me good sir

[@jamesflaherty59]

@@ShadowGamer5551 Battle of Waterloo, if the Prussian cavalry reinforcements arrived an hour later the battle was probably lost, not unrealistic at all wouldn't be surprised if scouts sent ahead would've told Tywin the city was being attacked then Tywin would force march and ride hard, which is what happend

[@ShadowGamer5551]

@@jamesflaherty59 If I recall correctly, the distance was a few dozen miles at best, from the battlefield to Blucher's camp, so much so that Wellington and Blucher exchanged correspondence and big W wouldn't have given battle if he wasn't assured IRL Bobby B would give him support of atleast 1 corps. Now technically yes, that's not unrealistic for things to come within an hour, hell stupid things like the weather changing changed tides of battles and history, but the difference here is the sheer distance between KL and harrenhal, the wait the crown had to do to secure tyrell alliance, the battle at bitterbridge, the fact stannis had a headstart in terms of marching hence why his van was at KL's port and threatening the city, which is why riders were dispatched to warn of his threat to the city. the storms did delay his sailing, but they surely did not delay him for weeks to give tywin enough time to arrive. Thing with forced marching is, your soldiers are usually exhausted after resting for a very limited time and spending most of their time marching, and riding, same with the horses, even if the riders swap them(Most mounted men had more than 1 horse) even then, that's a lot of horses to go through to be able to have a proper battle with a fresh horse. There is the whole Renly's ghost thing and being pincered which is fine, Stannis's army broke. Unless I'm wrong and in the books there's a passage where they sent a rider after Storm's End was besieged. Then the timings would have much more sense. If not, well, then Tywin would've made a centurion proud with how much his army marched in a day to make that happen.

[@dumitrache12]

@@ShadowGamer5551it is safe to assume Tywin had spies in Stannis camp. But I think the biggest factor on why Stannis lost is because the plot demanded it

[@homelesspyro995]

I thought I was the only one that actually noticed this in the books. I'm glad that you posted and that others have actually seen this too.

[@GuyKnow3brush]

If winds of winter came out, and they decided to get all the original actors and just make a 1 season of that book. (Detached from show, so we get zombie catelyn and others) Would you watch it? Would it make money? Should we go fund this when the book comes out in 8 years?

[@sirirond1990]

i feel like they should redo game of thrones from zero after house of the dragons ends, it would be a cool way to bring people back and they can even call it a song of ice and fire, a game of thrones full story or something, make it so you include everything left out now that you know there's an hungry audience for the lore and you can make like 10+ seasons, make them good and engaging and you can even use the old actors again or in new roles, like kit could be unlce benjen, rob could be ned, bran could be the three eyed raven, arya could be lyana, and vyserys could be the mad king and so on! would be so good! but most importantly they should hire unknow actors again for everyone else as not to make It a fanservice mess lmao

[@GuyKnow3brush]

@@sirirond1990 as much as I like that, I dont think that could work, since first 4 seasons were solid enough. And it's too soon from original, it wouldnt get enough viewers. People have lives. What I think could work is redoing parts from s4 until end if winds. Since books arent finished, maybe a while reboot show could be done in 20 years when its finished, new actors. How about an audiobook read by each character doing their narration and voice?🙃🙃🙃

[@sirirond1990]

​@@GuyKnow3brush i dont agree, that would sell like fresh bread IMO people are dying to get more got and a reboot that's good specially if you advertised it as being "the good one" and involve George in everything that gets done then you have a total hit, also season 4 was ok at best I know it had some good parts but I couldn't rewatch it again after it starts by the martels having a discussion about whether or not they should kill mircella even tho oberin told cersey like a day or 2 ago that they don't make children pay for the sins of their fathers at dorne :s

[@GuyKnow3brush]

@@sirirond1990 well, I cant say for certain. But do you talk to the average viewers who arent the fanatics or book readers? Talk to the average viewership who works full time and picks and chooses what they watch. Then be realistic to the problems of nostalgia and how every remake is judged by people who have nostalgia for the original. Then think of all the complex problems of remaking a show and picking the cast to fit the characters, which would all be different in their voice and attitude. Then remember that the common viewership also knows what happens, so the energetic bond created by the story developing and surprises wouldn't happen. Then remember half of what made the show great was the actors that fit their role, who could play Tywin or Tyrion or Ned Stark, or Robert Barathion... they are all so iconic as actors themselves, as well as the role. When we add all of it up, and be realistic, we can see it would most likely not get the viewership, or it would and then it would drop off as the judgement and boredom because they preferred the other actor, or it just feels off to them. People have different minds then you, and are unconscious sheep who complain all day and are noisy even when saying nothing. It could be remade when the books are finished, they could see it as they are going to redo it properly... but until then, there isnt a selling point to remake it, only in the minds of us fanatics who are the loudest speakers online. Gotta get out and talk to common people who are online yelling their opinions like you and me. Love your thoughts, ninja.❤

[@J10005]

You'd have to make a whole new show/reboot all together. A animated ASOIAF Series mixing books and a couple of the good show elements would be a nice watch.

[@JonnyAugz]

Congrats on the 100k. Well deserved.

[@user-ic8vi6kk8r]

It wasn't stupid of them to sail into kings landing. It was clever of Tyrion to come up with such a genius plan.

[@cormacoconnor7726]

Why was it stupid that they sailed into a trap? It's a TRAP, they weren't expecting it

[@3baxcb]

I think the video clearly was only to appeal to the converted who are so anal-retentive on social media about a TV show not including "everything" no matter how prohibitively expensive and time consuming it would be to do so. And that's why any demands for an immediate remake rightfully remain on message boards.

[@hyaziinth]

because, as davos suggested, they may have been aware of its existence (whether completely or partially) had ser imry florent bothered to send scouts ahead

[@LabrnMystic]

As a fan who hasn't read the books and only knows the show, Davos is my favorite character in the whole series. I even put him above Tyrion.

[@manolgeorgiev9664]

When Stanis said "Anyway, subscribe for more" I wept

[@nivednarayan5062]

Where do you get coloured got comics

[@Peatingtune]

You could make a short about, "How the show ruined..." followed by about 90% of the characters.

[@gustavoadolfomorenoyanes4514]

" strategy? I have four times their ships, I don't need a strategy"

[@ferrm1992]

Catelyn & Davos are by far the best POV chapters in the books. They’re pretty much the only adults (outside of Ned and the 4 Lannister characters of which 3 have daddy issues at times) with a firm grasp on reality, immersive war and religious concepts and a very stern and objective view of the politics

[@reinereine1896]

I find it even more strange is that Davos later on seemed to forget that it was Tyrion who was theone that killed he's son during the battle.

[@mettinkaytaz6106]

Where can I get ASOIAF Comics?

[@austincarney6226]

Is the entire book version have a comic version as well?

[@mrj4082]

The comic version is just the illustrated edition of the each book

[@fernf9382]

Where can I read the comics?

[@shurngirdleh3936]

I really liked the whole part after when Davos was stranded on a small island in the middle of the wide river. Wish they showed that part in the show it really made Davos into a tragic and interesting character for me

[@bill884]

You are showing pages of a comic, from which comic are exactly?

[@BoboyMagdalera]

A clash of kings comic adaptation.

[@michaelbayer5094]

Wasn't Stannis Robert's admiral at some point? why didn't he see the trap and/or heed Davos?

[@markhenzel4637]

Wasn't that House Florentine is at Reach under House Tyrell?

[@marklower3772]

Florent - Stannis' wife's house. They are indeed banner to the Tyrells but backed Stannis after Renly died, refused to bend the knee to the Lannisters/Tyrells after the Blackwater, and lost their castle (Brightwater Keep)

[@lukethegoldenminecart1297]

Many houses in the reach sided with Stannis aftet Renly's death and sense Stannis' wife was a Florant it was almost natural for them to join

[@perrsus8995]

What is the name of the comic series about game of thrones u got in the background?

[@hanshawks5088]

Got

[@narasimhashelar6745]

graphic novel

[@greynium7794]

Stannis: "who should I entrust the command of my navy? To a guy named Seaworth? Naaah I'll give it to my wife's brother lol"

[@3baxcb]

So Stannis Baratheon wasn't the brightest character in the books as some people painted him to be.

[@BigBazz-Clips]

The show ruined something? I’m shocked, shocked i say…. Well not that shocked

[@StoneColeStunna]

Ruined? Davos one of the best characters in the show. Just because it’s not 100% book accurate doesn’t mean it’s ruined.

[@spacecowboy5486]

I know the Mannis would not do it because he wouldn't

[@ganymeade275]

They dumbed down the Blackwater so hard in the show

[@user-ic8vi6kk8r]

Trying to make a huge battle on a TV budget. Then get back to me.

[@ganymeade275]

@@user-ic8vi6kk8r Yes, I'm sure that was the reason and not to avoid confusing, lets be polite and say "simple", folk such as yourself.

[@BartimaeusAurelius]

This is whymI didn't bother watching the show past season 4. I had enough. And I'm not going to bother buying he Winds of Winter when Martin finishes its because he still has to write The Dream of Spring which will probably take at least 10 years

[@bear_eater254]

This would have been disastrous 😂🤦..Good thing they changed it.

[@Bakasama04]

Davos is also religious in the books who for some reason is an atheist in the show

[@JemHadar422]

Kinda dumb to keep sell sails at your back lol ..put them in the vanguard

[@michaelkelly8956]

Yeah, but you failed to explain how the show ruined his character, if anything you gave an example of how his character was made better in the show

[@user-ny9vh9ik8n]

This comment section missed the point of this analysis, no wonder GRRM doesn't give a sh**t anymore

[@maxtomlinson8134]

westeros's worse admiral ever

[@alej1dp]

Show Daavos was waaaayyy better than the book verison

[@nickdentoom1173]

Don't forget that in the books, it was even implied Davos dies, but was resurrected by the Drowned God (Something grabbed him from underneath). Davos is Lightbringer or Azor Ahai Reborn. He was literally born again amidst Salt and Smoke. He shall wake Dragons out of Stone - Stannis has Dragonblood and Davos advice woke Stannis out of Dragonstone going to the Wall, where he is supposed to be. We are to believed Davos has died twice so far, with a third probably coming on the way to Skagos. Lightbringer was also forged three times. Davos's shadow is described as a sword.

[@lazyautomation3481]

Ruined seems a bit much

[@Alexajin]

Hahahah stannis the sucker

[@thesamejackalsniperthatkil117]

Fl*rents ☕️

[@carastone3473]

Davos is a good character on the show; NOT ‘ruined.’ Stop being a drama Queen!

[@3baxcb]

I think being a anonymous drama queen is all that naysayers have left I am sure that Liam Cunningham thought that Davos Seaworth was one of his best acting roles.

[@NoobMaster-fi2ho]

How the fuck was davos supposes to know about the fucking wildfire