The Truth About Ramsay and Reek | ASOIAF Explained

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

Do bruv a favor and check out the latest vid?😏 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hainnGd3qtRlY5o&ab_channel=IcebergEntertainment

[@DrZaius3141]

On a meta level, the Reek-ification of Theon holds a mirror up to readers who looked at what Theon did and wished horrible things on him. During the early stages of the story, there was the sense (at least among some people) that Theon's actions were irredeemable and any punishment for him was just. While even those readers quickly realized they were wrong, every further Reek chapter was a reminder of their intrusive thoughts towards Theon.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

Wow I had no idea. That's brilliant writing

[@rascal342]

i believe you’re talking about the books, but i can vouch that i definitely saw this happening in real time for the show audience.

[@ohyeaaaa1]

You're thinking a bit too much into it. Yes many (all?) readers thought Theon should have been hanged/beheaded or otherwise severely punished for his crimes. When people started reading Reek chapters they didn't think "I wish I hadn't thought that Theon should be beheaded for his crimes." As a reader you can think two things at once. What ended up happening was harsh, and he still should have been beheaded. Every further Reek chapter is a display and reminder of Ramsay's depravity. You can feel bad for Theon without feeling guilty for wanting him punished (two things at once again).

[@ajae...]

I still believe murdering children for greed is irredeemable. I don't think being sadistically tortured by an insane person forgives it, and I'm not sadistically insane to ever sentence anyone to something like that. I would never forgive it, though.

[@evoke97]

he murdered children bro, he did deserve what he got

[@SapphireSolstice67]

Wow that bit about Reek being the manifestation of his fathers acknowledgment of him as a son is so poignant.

[@ino7604]

Agreed. It's difficult to get all these little details on just one read through. I should re-read these books

[@daydreamers8254]

i legit felt so bad for Theon in this side story... karma is one thing but the psychological torture on top of physical torture and pure humiliation and dehumanization of him was just wrong.

[@tims_always_fishing7117]

I hated him, but this was weird and unnecessary in the series. 😅

[@johnjoseph6874]

@@tims_always_fishing7117It wasn’t unnecessary at all. Theon suffered PTSD and struggled with his identity as a result of being called Reek. Which then forces him to think of the identity he had, which was a greyjoy turned stark.

[@GoodMorningBeautiful4]

I think you're right about Ramsay wanting Roose's affection. When Roose asks Theon / Reek if he knows how Ramsay was conceived, Theon tells Roose what Ramsay said about it "You saw her while you were out riding one day and were stricken by her beauty." Roose bursts out laughing and mocks Ramsay. "The boy has a singer's soul." Then he tells Theon the true story about the hanging and rape. I never thought about it but now I think Ramsay says this because Ramsay wants to believe it himself. But Ramsay can never have Roose's affection because he has none to give. Roose doesn't have the ability to feel anything for anyone, hate or love. He later tells Theon in the same conversation that he expects all the son's he will have with his new wife Ramsay will likely secretly kill while in the crib. "I suppose it is for the best." Meaning he intends to allow it and feign ignorance, simply because the matter of succession could become problematic if he had more than one son.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I wonder if Ramsay will kill Roose in the books. If he does I feel like his patricide will seem like the only way he will get true acknowledgment, otherwise without that motive I don’t see Ramsay moving against him. He’ll never get that paternal affection if Roose is not alive to see his accomplishments. And interesting topic to ponder, which is interesting because ASOIAF has pretty much been dead to me since the end of season 5.

[@BP-zb4qf]

😊😅9

[@BP-zb4qf]

​@@FormerGovernmentHuman999😅and the populate of 90s in my 98😅the last few 😅and i

[@monkeyboy275bobo8]

@@FormerGovernmentHuman I dont think Ramsay is smart enough to get rid of Roose, its not easy to catch that man off guard. He generally doesnt trust people and he probably knows better than anyone who Ramsay really is and what he is capable off so if anything i see it be the other way around. At some point Roose might just decide to get rid off Ramsey for one reason or another and he probably wont see it coming. Maybe his sadistic nature becomes more liability than help to Roose. For political negotiation he makes a great scapegoat for whatever cruel thing the Boltons do or he just gets sacrificed in battle. Whatever conflict those two characters might have, i dont see it go Ramsays way.

[@Ytaccount821]

It's not about having more than one son making it problematic, many houses have multiple sons. Roose said he feels like he won't live long enough to see his new son become fully grown and that boy lords are the ruin of many houses so he thinks it's for the best that Ramsay kills them off before Roose himself dies and his new son becomes lord too young

[@Yes_Fantasy_419]

Theon's personal thoughts while he's in his living Hell literally sent chills through me because of how broken and empty he is when all he thinks about is what Ramsey will do to him.

[@supervillainnova8352]

Theon killed children... why did he kill those two boys? For what? For who?

[@KORGOTW]

How could he not then be taken over by hideous uncontrollable Rage??? What could prevent that??? Are only some of us taken over by it and not others?? How? is it because theon was evil from the start?? Does one have to begin with no desire to harm others? Is it something external that is summoned?? Explain please. Or does no one know of what I speak of?

[@meurumtrain4747]

@@supervillainnova8352he wanted to keep winterfell. The people would’ve rebelled if the starks were dead. He didn’t deserve this torture

[@stephaniedavis9978]

⁠😊

[@Abbey-ft5ql]

​​@@stephaniedavis9978 why u smiling steph. Don't tell me cruelty turns you on?

[@murri7329]

Before I even watch this I've gotta say I'm so glad someone is talking about Theon at all, I need more videos on him. He's probably my favourite character in the story, and Alfie Allen did an incredible job as him.

[@Turncloak4]

that’s because he is the best character, he had a fantastic arc in both the books and the show his chapters are grrm exploring the theme of identity, and it’s so interesting

[@Megatron4Life23]

Ugghhhh... your favorite character is Theon? Well, that proves what is said about personal taste.

[@murri7329]

@Megatron4Life23 cry about it.

[@trueking1857]

The fear in his voice when he becomes reek is some top quality acting listen to the break in his voice when he apologises to Sansa

[@antihmota4625]

@@Megatron4Life23 Most of book readers think theon has best POV chapters and many many people say he is their favourite.

[@Jesse-fd5bv]

Actually Theon is the 3rd Reek. The 2nd Reek was Ramsay disguising himself as his former pet when Rodrik Cassel captured him and Theon's lordship over Winterfell.

[@alicelaybourne1620]

Definitely, but at the same time, more an argument of semantics. Ramsey was never actually Reek. So both make sense. In such a deep dive into the psychology of the relationship, it would have been nice to mention the "Fake Reek". I always wondered if that had a deeper meaning.

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

@@alicelaybourne1620to be fair, at a interview when asked about Reek GRRM counted Theon as 3rd (secretly counted a 4th). Aegon Targaryen’s channel has it if you look for Reek. For the record: the 4 Reeks are: 1. Original 2. Fake Reek Ramsey 3. Theon 4. Rob Stark. Both Theon and Rob are currently still alive and having a very literal Identity Crisis believing they are Reek formally Theon. Also the “hooded man” was Reek(4) aka Rob Stark. Theon never left Winterfell as Reek, the Moat Calian Reek was Rob dressed as Theon, making a meta joke where Ramsey teases the reader.

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

@@mistermaestersirthomas9164This feels like such a stretch lmao.

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

@@rodrikofharlaw6848 do you know where the hart is? Because Cat, soon to be known as Stoneheart doesn’t.

[@itachiu37]

@@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Rob Stark? HUH?

[@JayDonagh]

It's twisted how in the end, Ramsay literally wanted some type of connection in the form of Reek. All of the torturing that he did to Theon was for the sake of finding a companion in the only way he knew, cruelty.

[@leathewolf]

Reminds me of Dahmer trying to make friends by lobotomizing them.

[@xrrgr]

@@leathewolf more like sex slaves

[@soxpeewee]

​@@leathewolfthere was definitely a sexual aspect to Ramsay and Reek/Theons relationship

[@shawnhenderson2091]

Additionally, most of the horrible stuff Theon did was all encouraged by Ramsay himself, who was there alongside Theon when he invaded Winterfell, he told Theon to do a bunch of the stuff that he did that put him past redemption at the time.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

Come to think of it I think Ramsay is actually the devil

[@sidnew2739]

​@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened Euron Greyjoy wants a word with you.

[@person-fu1ex]

dude, the part about him lying that he's been with reek since he was a boy is so on point. eloquent analysis as usual 💯

[@shavonnewalker1301]

He's been with a "Reek" since he was born. He actually set him to be killed at the Dreadfort. Essentially he traded places to lure Theon in to take Reek's place.

[@katenc.3112]

I love this analysis! It is super interesting to me how GRM uses the second generation of characters in this book to examine generational trauma and the widespread effects it has on communties/society at large

[@vx8431]

The original Reek is much much worse than how you made him out. He and Ramsay when togeather in the books is about as evil as it gets. Rooses thoughts about the original Reek sheds quite a bit of light on their dynamic. "The smell was something he was born with. A curse, the smallfolk said. The gods had made him stink so that men would know his soul was rotting." and "I do wonder, though ... was it Ramsay who corrupted Reek, or Reek Ramsay?" then lastly is Donella Hornwood when she speaks of Ramsay and Reek and their so called hunts.

[@shytguy]

Dude reek and Ramsay are necrophiliacs. They’re sick. Just r*ping live women and dead corpses on the road. Ramsay makes his dogs have sex with jeyne poole. He’s absolutely sick and twisted.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

Oh shit that's right. Looking back on it, it's like which Reek and Ramsay was she talking about, you know?

[@quilliamattari2772]

What did she say about Reek and Ramsay’s hunts?

[@vx8431]

@@quilliamattari2772 "The boy is a sly creature by all accounts, and he has a servant who is almost as cruel as he is. Reek, they call the man. It's said he never bathes. They hunt together, the Bastard and this Reek, and not for deer. I've heard tales, things I can scarce believe, even of a Bolton." What they were hunting was also described. It was smallfolk women who Ramsay then forced himself upon killed and then Reek well..did necrophilia.

[@brucetucker4847]

Didn't Ramsay kill the original Reek and assume his identity back at Winterfell while Theon was still in charge? I think some other men of the North were hunting Ramsay and Ramsay killed Reek and switched their clothes so they'd think Ramsay was dead. I'm pretty sure Theon had no idea who Ramsay was until he ended up being his prisoner.

[@MrSirkittykat]

Very interesting take on the Ramsey and Theon 's dynamic. I just started reading the books but my take on the Ramsey story was much more simple. He was obviously a sadist with a chip on his shoulder but I always felt that his need to break Theon was due to jealousy. Theon was a nobleman born with a family name and heir to his father's home and legacy. Ramsey wanted to take it away from him and bring him down to a position lower than his own. Ramsey is of low character and is jealous and resentful of everyone that is considered his better. It's the only way for him to feel that he is superior, by lashing out and destroying the symbols of the system he was born to. I am looking forward to the book's version of the Ramsey story and meeting the original Reek. It changes the motivation for his unrelenting cruelty towards Theon and why he did what he did.

[@Dapryor]

The level of depravity in the books has honestly messed with my head. I’ve read a ton of dark literature (most recently Blood Meridian) but I’ve never seen torture like what happens to Theon. Before reading it, if someone had asked me to create a creative torture method, I wouldn’t have been able to think of the type of stuff that happens to him. So why am I watching this video? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@kanhaibhatt913]

​@@Dapryortheres are many torture techniques in real life that we haven't seen in the books. Real history was far worse

[@briannakirkman6565]

@@Dapryorthe Reek chapters were SO HARD to get through.

[@MrNinja543]

@@Dapryornothing a little Wikipedia on torture won’t fix

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

Absolutely agree! I always assumed that was the fricking case. Ramsay's full of hatred. "I'm not happy and I was born of a raping, so therefore, _no one gets to be happy_ ".

[@BulletTooth504]

Even though I know it would be beneath him, during their parley in the show, I hoped Jon would address Ramsay as "Lord Snow."

[@bungalowfeuhler1541]

You forgot to mention WHY Roose was upset about the wedding. He wasn’t given the opportunity for Prima Nocta, or The First Night. Where a lord takes the maidenhead of any peasant before she is married. So he hanged her husband and raped her under the tree where he was swinging.

[@elijahrodriguez647]

and then says , thats all ive ever wanted. A peaceful rule and a quiet people, or something along those lines. fucking awesome evil.

[@kawaibakaneko]

And Roose added something like: "she wasn't a good lay, kinda meh in the look departement and my favorite horse hurts it's leg when I left, it wasn't a good day." I paraphrase but it's the spirit of his words.

[@runningcommentary2125]

@@kawaibakaneko I think he was out hunting a fox and it escaped or something.

[@RyanRFC]

⁠@@kawaibakaneko I’m sure the exact quote is “This miller's marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day”

[@Awakenthemasses2016_thetruth]

Your analysis made me remember why I loved the books and how I wish Hollywood would never have gotten hold of it and Martin would have been forced to give us the ending these wonderful books and characters deserved.

[@thewanderingartists]

Maybe Martin should have finished one more book 😂 and Martin did say that the season 8 endings are what will be in the books but the build up will be different.

[@xavielgaram]

he went to conventions left and right, lil bro has no intention of finishing the boom

[@adamcraig1468]

So what you're telling me is Ramsey just wanted a best friend 😂

[@AdamusPrime76]

“Somewhat cocky”…lol

[@nz_puddlehound1617]

These chapters were the reason I just couldn't finish the last book...I would just end up in tears...as when I read it's like a movie...the "visual" were just too bad. Also almost the worst thing was the broken teeth...Theon was described as have beautiful white straight teeth...then Reek's were all either broken or gone.

[@badyoutuber1986]

Its actually much worse when you read them because your mind vividly portraits them and you can't just switch it off like Everytime i read a jon chapter i feel cold Everytime I read a reek chap i feel like I'm missing a few finger's and teeth

[@nidohime6233]

You know an even worse possibility? The "original" Reek we meet before Theon's transformation might not be the first Reek.

[@mnmmcg3543]

9:23 Reek-create? 🧐

[@chiellostar3829]

There is maybe even another layer to this story, because theon mirrors ramsey. Both of them were raised by another father (eddard/reek) and do seek apritiation from there real father, which they both dont get. But in the end theon becomes a better men, because eddard raised him to be an honorble men and not like reek raised ramsey. So in the end theon becomes the men that eddard wanted him to become and erazes his darker self

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

I feel like you left out a HUGELY important detail and thing to analyze of ramsay betraying reek to his death. His love for the original reek is beyond just daddy issues it's also a deep subconscious guilt over killing his only true and loyal companion.

[@_alessandra-]

I have not read the books and it makes me upset that the show did not get deeper into Ramsey’s background.. enjoyed the video and waiting for the new one!

[@mrj4082]

It's good that you don't read the books. Start reading them when Winds releases

[@_alessandra-]

@@mrj4082 I’m not really into the whole GoT universe, apart from watching it again to refresh my memory and then I am going to watch HoTD for the first time, but as far as I know Martin is not going to finish his latest book.. However the longer I watch videos of this kind the more I want to try to read it😅.

[@laurencote5949]

I literally watch asiof videos everyday, and this is one of the best I've ever seen! Please keep making them

[@Karlonstark]

Fantastic video. Ramsay and Theon/Reek are my favorite characters and you explain their twisted relationship perfectly. I often hear people say that Ramsay is one of the less complicated characters, just being a sadistic monster by nature who hurts people purely for fun, but that misses one of the major points of the serious, that nothing is simply black or white.

[@reeknottheon]

Yee, mine too (But I also have an absolute obsession with Iwan and Alfie)

[@ryanstephenson7312]

When I found out in the book that Theon wasn't the first reek I thought "Sadly the first one didn't kill Ramsey"

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

In the show it’s quite clear his dick was actually cut off. However in the books I got the sense that he hasn’t actually lost his penis. He is just gaslight so incredibly hard he believes it himself. Convinces himself it isn’t there, that he feels only phantom limb pain per say. Ramsay seemed to get slightly more joy out of the mental torture and manipulation as he did the physical.

[@garrenbrooks4778]

He literally mailed his dick to his dad lol

[@sidnew2739]

That's a far stretch. There's no reason to believe that Ramsay wouldn't happily flay Theon's dick and wait for Theon to beg to cut it off.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

Wait that's a brilliant observation

[@sidnew2739]

@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened It's bullshit. Of course Ramsey castrated him in the books.

[@Candace-Loves]

What a beautifully done analysis. I forget about the details of the first Reek as they are so briefly mentioned in the books, but it makes complete sense that Ramsay would see Reek as the only tangible thing he has from his father for the beginning of his life, and therefore clings to him. Didn't Ramsay also kill his mother, or something terrible like that? You have a wonderfully pleasant voice, and that matters a lot to me, so I cannot wait for more of your videos. Cheers!

[@kawaibakaneko]

We actually don't know if Ramsey's mother is still alive. But his half brother, Roose's heir Domeric Bolton did died of a bad stomach after spending with Ramsey and his mom. Roose believes Domeric was murdered by Ramsey, some fans believe the culprit is Ramsey's mother. I believe Domeric tried to live like a peasant to feel closer to his half bro and he poisoned himself because he mixed up hemlock and wild carrot. I am dumb like that 😎

[@lauren1779]

I’m just happy to see a video essay that isn’t about how angry they are about the last season/episode. I want to hear other ideas about the show there’s so much! Subscribed!

[@Anubiszz512zz]

A great character analysis of Ramsay and theon that brings some shades of great to a character that most consider completely black. Which is of course not to say that it makes Ramsay justified or even relatable, just more understandable. It wasn't until just now that a parallel occurred to me, one between Theon and Victarion. Both are of course Greyjoys that partake in a heavily repeated ritual of stealing a daughter/bride that is in these cases from some of the most evil men in the story (Ramsay and Euron). Both theon and victarion have inferiority complexes and the common little brother syndrome with ASOIAF. Now victarion is more representative of the traditional iron born and theon has more of a greyjoy Stark hybrid dynamic going on but I wonder where else the two compare.

[@Anubiszz512zz]

I guess they both have a sort of rebirth as well, victarion with his hand and reek re emerging as theon.

[@hurremhightower]

nah ramsay is completely whyte,lets not use this type of language that black=bad or evil,it comes from a very whyte perspective

[@travismiddleton8218]

An absolutely fantastic breakdown of what happened to Theon at the hands of Ramsay. The torture scenes in the show were tough to watch. I'm glad the book skipped over it. Hope you do more analyses like these in the future 🙂

[@justink5000]

The book didn't skip over it

[@travismiddleton8218]

@@justink5000 yes but they didn't show us as much detail as the show did

[@justink5000]

I remember it being gruesome in the books 🙈 yes the show was (obviously) more visual, but the book gave us a lot of detail on Theon's pain. I remember the books diving deep into Theon's inner turmoil, you can really feel how the torture stole Theon's humanity and made him a cornered animal, only able to think about how to avoid the pain. Okay, now thinking about it & remembering it better, I see what you mean! The books mainly showed Theon's torture through memory, while the show has it happening on screen. I guess experiencing Theon's loss of humanity through his narration was more gruesome for me personally even than watching the torture first hand. But I can see how this can be different for anybody!

[@travismiddleton8218]

@@justink5000 yes the books showed us the mental state Theon was in whereas the show showed us the actual physical side of Ramsay's torture i.e his fingers, getting beaten, his manhold getting removed, being forced to sleep in the kennels

[@kenvenable4129]

Let’s also add that Ramsay allegedly killed his trueborn brother out of jealousy

[@cjay6664]

I remember when I first saw this show and seeing what theon did to the starks I thought that everything done to him when he was first caught was just. Until I saw what he went through and it actually made me feel bad for the guy

[@N7Ronin]

If this is where this channel is headed, well you got another sub! Very good work, not enough people talk introspectively about ASOIAF

[@shanonangermeyer-norman5280]

This was an in-depth analysis. I appreciate that you took the time to look into and explain the sadistic nature of the bastards and the reasons for it. I always thought the bastards in GOT had the most interesting stories.

[@stolenidentity8270]

In the books, I hope Theon is present at the battle of the bastards and exacts revenge on Ramsay personally, not the way it was in the series where he basically wasn't even present. Felt like such a cop out that Theon wasn't even there let alone actually exact revenge

[@henriquecesardesouzasilva8766]

I don't think there will be a battle of the bastards in the books

[@stolenidentity8270]

@@henriquecesardesouzasilva8766 I don’t know, I’m just a monkey brain fam of the series I didn’t read the books I’m only aware that the books aren’t that far ahead yet

[@rossington1680]

I don’t think so either……… BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!! F GRRM!!!!!!!

[@Manwendlil]

@@rossington1680 according to the author there are "just" 500 pages left to be written...

[@TavaraTheLaughingLion]

@@Manwendlil "just" 500 pages by GRRM standards is overwhelmingly good news actually

[@yusradaniels4152]

This is one of the best asoiaf character analysis that I've watched in a while 💙💙 You actually made me understand a character like Ramsay (and dare I say, have some empathy towards) , while still hating and rejecting him as a person. Im really curious to see how Grrm kills off the Boltons. Is it possible for you to do a video on Robb Stark? He's my favourite character and he's so underrated. I know there's so little to do analysis on the character because his story is seen mainly through other POVs, but I love the way you speak and present content so even you just speaking about his journey would be a vid id watch

[@mo44majere95]

You put their dynamic absolutely beautifully into words!! Thank you very much :)

[@noahcoops6305]

I watched this as a normal viewer, not a friend, and was pleasantly rewarded. Good job and here’s to many more!

[@SarahPriceMoore]

An absolutely excellent video! Thorough and well researched. I love ASOIAF lore and theories but you managed to bring something new to my attention, something no one else has (that I’ve seen) and I hadn’t really considered before. The Reek chapters are so dark and vile that I assume I rushed through them. I’m glad you didn’t. Thank you! 😊

[@Cloudy_Jones]

I’ve always took there was a first reek by the way Ramsay introduced the idea to Theon and what he said

[@Ciccigreen]

Excellent work! I hope you make more ASOIAF videos!

[@way2tehdawn]

We’ll just have to wait for the winds of winter? 🤣🤣🤣 You had me howling I nearly busted a rib. The winds of winter 🤣 you’re funny!

[@LavenderJack540]

Dude...this is brilliantly introspective. So well thought-out & illustrated. You ought to do more of these. This has gained you another subscriber. Lavender Jack...Swooping On Down.

[@SubVet84]

Makes me glad I grew up with 2 amazing and loving parents! Fear of disappointing them is the only thing that kept me from living my violent fantasies, before being able to get help and eventually unlocking my ability to love others.

[@easy0828]

Ramsays evil acts always seemed kinda forced. He enjoys the violence, but he deliberately chooses to be that extreme to imitate/impress Roose. He never had the hardcore natural darkness that Gregor has.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

"Hardcore natural darkness" could be a band's name

[@easy0828]

Yessir@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened

[@xxlCortez]

I'd disagree that Ramsay is any less evil than Gregor. However, it's his METHOD that reflects Roose. Ramsay plays the same mind games as Roose but his version is not as discreet and sophisticated, something that really annoys Roose. And while he enjoys these games, it's highly likely that subconsciously he does that for maybe connection or living up to his father. After all, Roose also trolls Theon when they are together (and I'm glad the show also depicted Roose's version of mind games).

[@Noonenoone440]

Who is gregor

[@Noonenoone440]

Is it gregor claigaine

[@HeatherHolt]

So glad when I find a new channel that makes great and researched content with great commentary. 👍

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Makes a lot of sense! Nice work.

[@osianthomas4105]

hoping this channel gets more exposure cuz this essay's one of the best asoiaf analyses i've seen in ages 🔥

[@enzobodean2599]

on god

[@lupine.spirit]

„We‘ll just have to wait for Winds Of Winter“ HAHAHA 💀

[@rileylanes8117]

This was such a great video and I hope to see more like this

[@joem6352]

Bro, my highass had to rewind this many times, this guy showing us a psychological breakdown of the Ramsey/Theon situation 🤯

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

lmao thank u😇

[@Butterism]

Was what Theon did to the Starks truly a betrayal? Because despite Ned raising him amoung his children, despite Robb seeing him as a brother, despite Theon caring for the Starks, Ned still would have killed him. I love Ned, but he would have beheaded Theon if it came down to it. Sure, he would feel bad about it, but ask Theon if that would have mattered in the end. Ned had Theon carry around Ice when he had to behead people just so Theon would never forget that he was hostage. This had to hit Theon hard, especially when he saw his father was planning another rebellion when he returned to the Iron Islands. Of what could have been. So, if Ned would have killed Theon despite everything, is it truly a betrayal to what Theon did? A jewled cage is still a cage. And the whole thing has to sting even more, since the whole reason Ned is alive and Robert became king, was because Ned's second father figure refused to kill them on a king's command. Would Ned have done the same? Would he raise the banners for Theon? I think we all know the answers.

[@davidng8870]

Ned was dead though. Robb might have raised his banners for Theon

[@Butterism]

@@davidng8870 Key phrase is _might have_ I'm more inclined to believe that if the War of the 5 Kings didn't pop off, Robb would have let Ned kill Theon. He would be sad about it, but I'm pretty sure Ned has been hammering it into all his children why he would _have_ to kill Theon. If you were Theon, would you bet your life on that?

[@davidng8870]

@@Butterism just think at the point Theon made the decision to betray the starks then the appropriate comparator is what the reality was then and not five years ago when Ned was alive or if war didn’t happen. At that point he had proved himself in battle, grown even closer to Robb, and imo the latter would have probably gone to war for him, he trusted him like a brother. Versus his father who was a hard cold man who didn’t care about him and a sister he didn’t remember. It was understandable but the wrong call and I think Theon realises this at least in the books Even as far as your example goes I think Robb would not have just let his father do it, at least not when the books begin. He was a sentimental hothead

[@graylykan2739]

This was a great analysis of these two characters. That part about Ramsay essentially psychologically-projecting his hatred of his own name onto Theon (or Reek as he called him) is so true. I knew he had an inferiority-complex and was a sick-in-the-head POS, and I always saw him and Theon as sharing some similarities (both being sons that desired their fathers' approval despite their fathers being assholes), but I never really thought of it that way. I never read the rest of the books (only up to maybe half of Storm of Swords), but I saw the show and the torture scenes with Theon were so difficult to watch and sit through, especially the infamous castration part. It's right up there with Jamie's torture by Black Jack Randall in Season 1 of Outlander in terms of depravity, helped by the amazing acting from Alfie Allen and Iwan Rheon's chilling performance.

[@fuktrumpanzeeskum]

iirc, in the books, GRRM never describes the castration, it's just alluded to after the fact.

[@wingy200]

This was very well done. Looking forward to more of your videos.

[@johncalabria1607]

Are you going to make a similar video on Euron? I’d like to better understand that character. This was a fascinating breakdown on Ramsey. Thank you!

[@jamesmswenko8292]

I was so confused when 'Reek' was introduced early in the books, turns out it was Ramsey in disguise.

[@tazter]

great insight to Ramsay, i never saw the connection between Reek and Roose's acceptance. thanks for this analysis!

[@StarWarsPolitics]

Great video, got your point, you provided resources, your layout was perfect, very easy to understand and makes total sense and 100 percent agree with your subject

[@Ginger_Snap347]

It’s been so long since I read the books that I’d forgotten about the first Reek. I didn’t realize what all of Ramsey’s motives were… it’s a lot more messed up than I realized. Good video, thank you for making it.

[@CountOfMonteCristo_]

One aspect I really like about the show is the duality between Jon and Ramsey. They have have similarities to an extend, both are belittled by others for being a bastard, Catelyn Stark despised Jon and Roose despised Ramsey, and yet both are mirrors of eachother in a sort of way. Jon is an example of healing that trauma into a greater purpose, and Ramsey is an example of trauma taking over an individual to the point where they become unrecognizable. It culminates into the battle of the bastards and Jon getting the upper hand, ultimately being the one to finally defeat Ramsey. It’s really poetic in my eyes, I know the show became controversial after they started doing their own thing, but that’s a plot line I find really compelling, and hopefully George has something similar in winds of winter.

[@ajae...]

This is good, but the connection between Ramsey and Theon goes further in that their father figures are dangers to them. You say Theon felt as if he didn't belong with the Starks, but it's the promise that Ned could execute him if Baylon gets out of line that gives him that feeling. It's Ned who gives him that feeling, so he lives with low grade fears of both of his fathers' rejection the way Ramsey lives with the fear of his.

[@Katsuya89]

I remember the way GRRM first introduces the new Theon as Reek was brilliant. Since the POV chapter names are just the characters name. Its confusing at first who this character is and leaves it up to the reader to figure out its Theon.

[@thescrewsareneatlyfastened]

I wish I read the books first so I had that pure experience🙏😭

[@lukesistek638]

this is awesome man. i never thought id think of ramsay with any more depth than "well that guys a fuckin psycho", but you managed to open my eyes to the layers that are really there. good shit man

[@zCrabs]

Wonderful video. Well spoken and extremely detailed. Good job man.

[@andrewnelson8093]

I was a horse rider and then crew on thrones I was in a scene with Peter and Alfie. Holding peters horse. Your next tuble with ros is on me. I remember thinkg how good Alfie was. A really underrated actor on throne's

[@mikaelnadal6661]

One of the best reek analysis ive seen. Keep up the great work!

[@SingingSealRiana]

An amazing take and you are the first I encountered that caught onto ramsey lying and what that means!!!

[@tovpp7]

This video is amazing dude, keep it up. I’m subbed just for it.

[@Rottingflare]

had to like and subscribe for how well this video was done. love the presentation and atmosphere!

[@liamwallaceharper1540]

First let's goooo, also really fascinating video, so happy with how flushed out you managed to make it

[@lua3029]

rlly good video!! pls post more, we need all te nuance we can get when discussing such a complex story

[@omamuzofelix9562]

This is the most heartbreaking yet most scary thing I’ve ever seen … how do writers even think of stuff like this??? I’m mad at Theon but at the same time I feel sorry for him also Ramsey… omg I don’t even know what to feel

[@keirangrant1607]

I thought Ramsey killed Roose's true born son? I think his name was Domerik or something. It's been a while since I read the books but I vaguely remember Roose talking about thinking Ramsey killed his brother, and that the child might have been Ned's older brother Brandon. Roose talked about how good he was at riding

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I remember him talking to Theon about how he believes Ramsay will kill all of his newborn half frey brothers in the crib. “Which is probably for the best” but none had been born yet bookwise. I don’t remember anything similar ever being discussed in the books.

[@keirangrant1607]

@@FormerGovernmentHuman Roose was talking about his current wife. He used to be married to a Dustin, I believe, and they had a child together. I'm pretty sure his name was Domerik. Roose might even think Ramsay killed him. He tried to have them bond but then Domerik died somehow.

[@mrj4082]

Yup, Domeric was Roose's first true born son and Ramsey killed him or so Roose says

[@laurencote5949]

Ramsay killed his brother(s)

[@fuktrumpanzeeskum]

​​@@keirangrant1607you're right, he did have another son that Ramsay killed

[@tylercruse2402]

Excellent video! I never thought about how much Ramsey cared for the original Reek!

[@RyanRFC]

I don’t think he cared for him in the same way normal people do but more cared for him as a pet that entertained, obeyed him and enabled his twisted sadistic behavior, even though we never get to meet the original reek and he would be classed as a posthumously minor antagonist however I’d say he is quite important to Ramsay Boltons story and we’re probably never meant to know just who exactly he was as it’s supposed to be a mystery on who corrupted who, I say that, it’s most likely both were already nasty individuals who became even worse when they became inseparable friends but it’s clearly obvious that the original reek was just as cruel and evil as Ramsay as according to lady Donella hornwood “the boy (Ramsay) is a sly creature by all accounts and he has a servant who’s almost as cruel as he is, reek they call the man, it’s said he never bathes, they hunt together the bastard and this reek and not for deer…” and Rodrik Cassel says after he captures Ramsay posing as reek that he’d love to kill him along with Ramsay as “he’s as bad as his master!” even Ramsay himself confirms it when he tells Theon about how he was captured after brutalizing and sexually assaulting a peasant girl “I was done with her by then and he (Reek) liked to take his turn while they were still warm…” but I do see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure if he cared about him in a genuine friendship way although it does seem he’s doing all this to Theon and transforming him into a second Reek as a way to bring his old loyal servant back to life so maybe, however unlikely, that deep down he feels guilty about setting Reek up to be killed in his place as although it was a it’s you or me situation he most likely was annoyed that it had to come to that in the first place as when he’s telling Theon about what happened the first thing he mentions is “the wretch (reek) is dead, the girls fault if she had not run so far his horse would not have lamed and we might’ve been able to flee” immediately he passes the blame onto the girl they were tormenting and basically says it’s her fault that Reek was killed even though if they weren’t torturing her they wouldn’t have gotten themselves into that mess so this might be Ramsays own way of removing the guilt by bringing him “back to life” I could be entirely wrong though as psychopaths don’t tend to feel guilt, remorse, empathy, love etc but who knows maybe he did care for the original Reek in his own twisted way

[@chainsawvsgod384]

Great video m8, really enjoyed it

[@HeavyJohno]

Would love to see more videos about ASOIAF from you❤

[@Hejdo8]

Bro this a good ass video

[@michaelsuder486]

Even in the show you can see when Roose legitimized Ramsay looked overwhelmed

[@DyCast]

Well done video! Always looking for more Game of Thrones lore. Only thing I would recommend would be to use the Character chapter names. My page numbers fell into Davos chapters and one of Quentyn's chapters. But I would love to see more!

[@noeraldinkabam]

Didn’t Theon kill the miller’s boys instead of Bran and Rickon? So, in a sense he killed Ramsey.

[@Mo-vh2ry]

This was great, looking forward to hopefully many more!

[@TimmyMcGowan]

something I rarely see brought up is that Ramsay actually has another brother, Troy Bolton of house Basketball

[@feliciaroyers1646]

He wanted to Reek-create something from his childhood

[@Barael55]

That thumbnail was perfection

[@jamesnave1249]

That was a really good dissection of the Ramsey Reek dynamic. Highlighted the real depth of how fu$#ed up it is. So impressed GRRM could come up with such a deeply messed up character like Ramsey but still give him depth rather than just a simple generic evil character

[@samheart564]

Amazing video bro, I’m not even a game of thrones viewer and it still made perfect sense😂

[@jenndowden8131]

This was really interesting; thank you for your work & insights.

[@annemariestarfyre7550]

Well done deep dive 👏👏👏

[@THEJustinOfAllTime]

This was a very good video and I am definitely a bit disappointed that its the only of its kind on your channel, keep up the awesome work!

[@bradwolf07]

There was s a theory that Theon is actually the third Reek. The first Reek was replaced by his Half Brother. His brother did die, just not when everyone else thought he died.

[@blitzen435]

Awesome video man, hope you don’t take offence when I say I wasn’t expecting such a high quality video from a channel with so few subscribers. You’ve definitely earned yourself another sub!

[@YourGraceMyLady]

You forgot that Ramsey murdered his true born brother

[@nodiggity9472]

That was never proved, it was just another vicious rumour.

[@Dr.Rabbit7346]

Ramsey is definitely more sick than Joffrey, which is pretty outstanding. But I think we can all say we don’t like Joffrey more 😮

[@MrGustavevil]

Great video mate - you deserve more subscribers with content of this calibre.

[@darksister6661]

Terrific video! For all the amazing storytelling in GoT this was for me the absolute worst and most demeaning story of the entire series. It went on for a few episodes and my stomach turned every time it came on . Horrific yet you just couldn't turn away. When Theon and Sansa meet again it provides some relief but not much. ....Sansa allowing Ramsay to die by his dogs also helps. But the realistic perversion still 😢lingers....... Thanks for explaining the back story of the torturer . (Still detest him though :^((

[@leche_sagrada377]

Fantastic commentary - subscribed!

[@MetalAriel]

Great analysis, I'll need to check you other videos.