How The World's Most Expensive Chainrings Are Made!

[@gcntech]

Would you use a titanium chainring?

[@Nehpets1701G]

Absolutely 💯

[@Ashbridg3s]

I would for the right price, unfortunately over here only us companies make Ti stuff. And imo borderline at extortion prices

[@tomahoks]

Money money money.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

Definitely would use a Ti chainring but I'm using a titanium stem,it is superlight.💯👌🏻🚴‍♂️

[@blankseventydrei]

yes, it will go nicely with my titanium frame. :-) even though it might be over kill.

[@newhorizons.english]

GCN features a hill climber called "Feather" and a guy who makes titanium bikes called "Sturdy"

[@mini_]

Nominative determinism in action

[@mathewrose2951]

And a presenter who is constantly dispirited when his mates point out the size of his ankles named "Si"(gh) ;-)

[@lwfeagan]

It’s a very British thing. You would never ask someone with a family name like Baker or Miller if their family lineage includes blacksmiths, for example. That’d be the bloke with the family name Smith. You see a similar thing in Japan, where individuals didn’t have family names, other than samurai and other elites, until relatively recent, and then adopted family names based on nature and their surroundings.

[@SonnyDarvish]

@@mathewrose2951 However.. !

[@caniggiaful]

Don't forget professor Ian Walker on the car conspiracy video, promoting active transportation.

[@geothunder1971]

I started working in a machine shop when I was 18 being a machinist is such valuable skill something I could always fall back on easily finding work I once was in charge of 3 cnc mills vertical and horizontal our shop specialized in titanium aerospace parts and race car parts. I always thought about drawing up bike parts with our CAD cam software cool to see somebody doing it.

[@festerofest4374]

I've done work with many machine shops and millwork (wood) shops so I'm very familiar with manufacturing, including CNC. I think this video did a great job of explaining many of the factors and considerations in manufacturing for folks who haven't been exposed to it. And their production speed challenges in this shop are nothing that can't be resolved with bigger/better/$$$$$$ CNC milling centers lol!!! And that is a common business conundrum/challenge.... how much can/should we invest to upscale production!

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

@@geothunder1971 Does titanium require more cooling than steel because I only use one nozzle on the Milling machine at when cutting,the CNC is using 4 nozzles?

[@davidhagersten8447]

​@@reinholdachleitner2069 Yes, titanium has very low thermal conductivity. Very challanging to machine titanium compared to aluminium which have a very high thermal conductivity and easily creates nice chip that take heat away from the work piece. Aluminium is new

[@ACCPhil]

​@@davidhagersten8447 From the short time I spent in a machine shop back in the day, I seem to recall that Ti work-hardens like a bastard so cooling might help that. What I think there might be a market for is Titanium SPD-SL cleats. Given that the standard ones seem to be made of cheese.

[@davidhagersten8447]

@@ACCPhil That is true and it is in a way connected to titanium's low thermal conductivity. Work hardening is also called cold working a metal. To clarify my previous comment, the extra need for coolant is to cool down the edge of the cutting tool, since very little heat is conducted through the work piece or the chips. The edge of the cutting tool gets too hot and easily dulls which makes the problem with work hardening worse and less cutting tool coating makes the high reactivity of titanium on the cutting tool even worse. Cryogenic coolant is an interseting area of research especially for machining titanium.

[@smithandshortdogs]

It is funny that at 17:31, Joaquin was hesitant about saying the phrase "run of the mill" when the entire video was about setting up and running a mill...

[@chrisb4961]

Thanks for sharing this, it was interesting to see how others are doing it, I own a CNC manufacturing company that also makes chainrings. I was a little surprised on the waist, we use mostly 7075 aluminum and would hate seeing that much material going into the recycle bin. We start with a much closer diameter and thickness to the final part.

[@jaro6985]

*waste titanium might be harder to get in specific stock sizes, or he just wants to keep one blank on the shelf for every order. But yeah huge amount of waste.

[@davidpinnington213]

Only just started my cnc journey but as soon as I saw the % waste my thoughts were why? And consider a better engineered option - just because you can does not mean you should

[@paul5683]

Making a profit doesn't seem to be a big priority.

[@EcoMouseChannel]

@@paul5683 They do cost about £380 so there seems to be some margin in there for profit. I've made chainrings before, but I had a laser company cut them out of thinner plate and then I had the machining of the tooth features as a secondary step. Much cheaper for me to have them done that way.

[@beef5030]

​@@jaro6985 don't know how many they move too so could be orders are small enough where changing work holding and blank supplier might not be cost effective at that point.

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

Now I understand why George did that retro Pinarello build with the new Dura Ace stuff - it was just an excuse to clear out his under-the-sink cupboard so that he could store a box of these chain rings. next video - adding an 80 tooth titanium chain ring to a city bike and making Hank climb the Motorola.

[@gcntech]

The good news is that Hank accepted to take on that challenge; the bad news is that you know too much...

[@TenSapphires]

Best raportee

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

@@gcntech haha great reply

[@GunnerGetYa]

Love these manufacturing videos ❤️

[@TESTA-CC]

Made in Great Britain Well Done Tom 💪💪, its time to support these small companies. Titanium Chain Rings Awesome 😎😎

[@dudeonbike800]

But only on a pair of EE Wings!!! Have some damn pride, for God's sake!

[@littleshopofrandom685]

On a cheap chinese CNC machine :)

[@jeremynorth]

I'd love to support these companies. Tom Sturdy bikes are absolutely fabulous but they cost more than a car. I can't afford to support him.

[@paul5683]

​@@littleshopofrandom685 What's your cnc milling machine like ?

[@littleshopofrandom685]

@@paul5683 Fast. :) I was joking about the irony of cheap chinese machinery being the critical fuel for the resurgence in western "local" manufacturing. Syil is a chinese brand of budget friendly machines. This one is a version of a fanuc or brother tapping center. Quite nice actually although some people are having issues with the LNC control. There is an additional irony he in that all those higher end brother and fanuc machines are going straight to china to make phones.

[@jeremynorth]

Excellent . I hope you do more of these fascinating insights

[@bikeskimawk670]

Alex, please keep delivering manufacturing theme content.

[@seancollins9745]

I'd water jet about the first 90% of the work, why waste all that machine time milling it.

[@astonmartinastonmart]

I’m guessing he’s not got a water cutter

[@festerofest4374]

Or wire EDM

[@jonasv328]

Water jet time is still machine time? It doesn't come for free either.

[@Minerals333]

Good luck locating it after water jet.

[@justinp2559]

​@festerofest4374 Wire EDM plows through titanium super fast. Ideally would use a machine that will pop its own holes.

[@yetanotherjohn]

Gee I always thought CNC was: Cutter, Numerically Controlled. Ah, well. OUTSTANDING video! I want one for my bike.

[@chawley52]

Thanks for a great dive into bespoke bike component manufacturing. But, I would have loved to hear more about the structural design considerations (of the web) and the value of working from billet as opposed to stamping or forged.

[@paul5683]

I can tell you one thing about not using a stamping or forging. You would need a specialized die to do either. Plus you would need a specialized machine to run the die in. A forging would be more difficult. The stamping might be accomplished with a fine blanking die. That's how they make a lot of those thicker steel sprockets, but you would still end up with some second operations to finish it.

[@christerlundgren3805]

😂 Have to beef up my bankaccount first. He is a extremly skilled man 👍

[@gilesy62]

Look Awesome!

[@branbroken]

If you want to make something compatible with their products, you usually can go to the designer/patent holder and get functional design spec (usually licenced for a cost) not going to go down well (with consumers lr the original designers) if your making products that aren actually compatible when parts like these need to be made to tight tolerances, and if the other company has a valid patent, you can't just measure one of their products to get your measurements to make competing product of your own without risk of infringing their patent anyway. If its out of patent or an open standard, there will certainly be design documents for the critical parameters about.

[@gcntech]

Thank you for providing this information!

[@paul5683]

That's not true. You can measure and fabricate an identical part as long as you don't claim that your new part is the original part. That's how most oem manufacturers operate. Many of them make the same product under the same roof for different companies and if they offer an oem with their own name on the product.

[@branbroken]

@paul5683 what do you think patents are for? They are a form of legal protection for product designs. OEMs will either hold the design patent or produce under licence. You can't just manufacture a copy of something that's covered by a patent without permission of the holder or you risk an infringment lawsuit.

[@0wis105]

Nice and interesting video ! I am wondering if doing a composite structure using carbon in the center and titanium for the teeth would allow to reduce costs (obviously raw material usage) and improve even more weight.

[@neilwinkelmann8540]

A steel ring on a carbon disc might offer the best blend of weight, cost and durability.

[@festerofest4374]

@@neilwinkelmann8540 For real. Well-designed and manufactured of steel to form the outer chainring only area would weigh almost nothing and last zillions of km.

[@paul5683]

You would have to have a mold to form the carbon fiber into the shape that you want. Adhering the titanium to the carbon fiber would be another huge challenge.

[@Raytrac3d]

This is already a thing by the way. Look up Race Face Era. Steel teeth on a carbon spider with an aluminum shaft interface. And it is indeed lighter, cheaper and arguably stronger. To bad they are only available for Race Face specific crank interface and only in MTB sizes (34T max), cause otherwise they would made these titanium ones completely pointless, IMO.

[@duroxkilo]

@@paul5683 google "race face era chainring" it's lighter, more durable and it's about $120 :)

[@BenSmithHuugs]

Love these videos!!!!!!

[@ebikescrapper3925]

A Dura Axe 34 tooth chainring is £40 (you can get it cheaper if you hunt about), one of his is £312 (Inc VAT). If you get eight times more use our of it it is a good deal.

[@dudeonbike800]

Oh stop with the rational thinking! Compared to a carbon fiber propeller, this thing's a BARGAIN! Buy 10 and save!!!!

[@ebikescrapper3925]

The propeller would make me go faster

[@JackMott]

good luck having that work out in practice =)

[@paul5683]

I'm guessing that rough piece of titanium cost about 50 pounds to begin with. All that screwing around and overhead, he's not exactly getting rich doing this.

[@kazuviking]

@@paul5683 You could make 3 chainrings from that massive titanium wafer but he decides to waste it on one.

[@wyrierit]

It looks cool. People ready to use titanium chainring for the right price but what is "right" exactly? It is in your favor? I doubt this will possible because of the a) raw material costs b) small batches c) machinery and it's maintenance that involved in this process d) people that are making it want to eat.

[@kazuviking]

e) wasting lost of material on pointless things.

[@randomradon]

Hey @gcntech what was that song at 4:10? sounds pretty cool.

[@jameslee-pevenhull5087]

The technical bit is the speed of the tool through the metal. The hardness of the job metal needs to be known.

[@dikkybee]

All you need to know is what alloy and the tool manufacturers will tell you speed and feeds to begin with.

[@TESTA-CC]

if Tom is Making Titanium Cranks, Titanium Disc brakes must also be an option👍👍

[@seaweeded]

Do they leave the raw titanium uncoated after machining?

[@bababaanarama]

for what you need the coat with TI?

[@SonnyDarvish]

As the chain starts wearing its teeth, I don't see any benefit of coating it with anything.

[@jaro6985]

You can anodize if you want a specific color, but yeah no need to coat it with anything as others have said.

[@ChrisTexan]

I can vouch for Ti chainrings, I had a Shimano XT drivetrain, I literally chewed through the first (3x) middle ring in under 250 miles (riding very dusty trails, but regular chain lubing/cleaning)... after the 2nd XT ring at around the 700 mile (total, so 500 on the 2nd) mark, I decided to buy a Boone chainrings middle ring replacement... it has lasted over 2000 miles (still going), and only cost about 3x the Shimano XT ring cost, and still works great (it's outlasted multiple chains and a broken bike frame over the years, LOL). Doesn't get ridden much anymore, now my loan-a-friend or certain conditions riding bike, but if you are looking at 3x the price for Ti vs Al, I say buy Ti (at some point it might not make sense, but you have to figure out what multiple makes sense to you).

[@onemorething100]

Have you ever tried waxing? It's a game changer when it come to cleanliness and wear.

[@duroxkilo]

not sure what was going on but that sounds more of a quality issues than 'material strength', maybe 'fake' products... e-bikes aren't able to wear chainrings at that rate in muddy conditions

[@ChrisTexan]

@@duroxkilo Factory shimano XT chainrings (after replacing the actual Specialized crankset which had the same issue with Shimano XT), they were notorious at that time for wearing like crazy (made of butter was many people's comments, LOL), from reputable sources (Specialized authorized bike store on the original set, and Jenson USA, back then there wasn't the influx of cheap knoock-off stuff). The dust around here is like grinding paste and just chewed through those (the steel inner rings were fine). I also weighed around 235# at the time and wasn't light on the bike, LOL. But again, most around here were replacing chainrings regularly back then due to this problem and our very dusty conditions.

[@duroxkilo]

@@ChrisTexan so basically they were trying a new alloy/supplier for whatever reasons and it didn't work well at all. i haven't heard of such atrocious performance fail before... dust mixed into a nice abrasive paste is indeed great for grinding :) i'm in the sonoran desert and there's no escape from dust. i'm currently cleaning a few new chains in preparation to wax them. from what i've read it works wonders in stopping abrasives from entering and wearing chain'a internals. as i understand it, in part it's because wax is dry and dust doesn't stick much to it and in part it kind of 'clogs up' the openings responsible for letting dust and other abrasives from entering the chain. apparently even paraffin alone offers longer chain longevity in dry conditions but commercially available chain waxes contain friction modifiers and all that for higher efficiency. ppl report over 150miles between rewaxing and insane drivetrain longevity. i'm a bit skeptical about some of the outrageous numbers (like 10000miles on a chain) but i'd be happy w/ half of that if i'll never have to touch a dirty chain again since wax is supposed to maintain it super clean. be safe have fun, happy holidays

[@persianwhite]

Syil X5 VMC! awesome machine for small shops.

[@gbspikyfish]

That looks like a Colchester Chipmaster in the background (4:21). The man has good taste in lathes ;)

[@johnboom6777]

My smallest lathe is a new Colchester Master, short version, a pleasure to operate.

[@paul5683]

The shop I used to work at had 3 of the larger causing colchester lathes with the 12 inch chucks. We were turning a lot of 4 inch s7 bar stock. The owner really liked clausings , he eventually got us two clausing cncs with Fanuc Ota controllers on. They didn't have turrets on them, but we found the Aloris quick change tool holders to repeat for accuracy quite well. As long as you didn't crash anything, then you had to go through a lot of screwing around to get it dialed in again. We found that we didn't need tool changers on the lathes because the cycle time on a part was long, especially with a single point tool like in a lathe.

[@KevinATJumpWorks]

I appreciate the craftsmanship and the final product a lot! Still, I don't understand the purpose of making it from titanium. If you wanted it to last, why not make it from steel? Seems more suitable to an application like this. Sure, it's heavier and less fancy, but - depending on the alloy - has far superior abrasion resistance. If you really wanted to, you could make the teeth-ring (?) from steel and the hub from titanium.

[@mosquito4026]

I dunno much about machining, but I feel like huge chunk of the initial cutting work could be done at a local waterjet cutting service and save a lot on machining cost. Surely waterjet would be cheaper than CNC cutting Ti.

[@svgs650r]

Hey, those things will be the business on your next Tour, you'll be sporting Polka-Dots for sure!

[@Biggsy76]

8:43 Was Alfred recording pickup lines from under his duvet?

[@ruairidhalexander7631]

Very interesting Bit of a glich in the timeline editing though.

[@baekdal]

While this is impressive, it also illustrates the massive amounts of waste involved. And while the left over titanium will most likely be recycled, we are talking about a 95% waste-rate ... and that is after the waste caused by the discs being cut initially.

[@thomasl6912]

This is pretty normal in the realm of machining.

[@littleshopofrandom685]

@@thomasl6912 This is actually pretty extreme for waste. I'm sure he's done the math and found this as a balance, but that's 50% more material than is really necessary which you both need to pay for and then pay to machine away.

[@andyshannahan]

As above answer this is pretty normal in manufacturing. Titanium is extremely expensive so he won't be wasting any more than necessary. As they pointed out in the video it's also far more durable than aluminium so the product life span is much greater. For a precision component machining is really the only option so there's no alternative.

[@birkaster]

This nicely highlights the benefits of additive manufacturing and why it is getting more and more tracktion.

[@paul5683]

You'd really need a very specialized machine that could put down titanium material. My experience with additive material products is that they do resemble what you are looking for but don't have the strength to be of any value for a functioning part. That titanium frame you mentioned may have looked like a real frame, but I sure wouldn't get on it.

[@CatManDoSocial]

Very cool.

[@shanold7681]

He brings up additive manufacturing at the end. I have seen 3d printed titanium frames so I would assume it would be strong enough for a chain ring I'm kinda surprised they would go the machined route for a smaller part like this. I have ordered a 3d printed aluminum part before and it showed up incredibly smooth for what I was expecting so i would think it would be good enough for chain rings.

[@dikkybee]

Price of materials in getting smooth printed items is very expensive compared to machining from a blank. Plus the price of a printer compared to mill would be about 10 times the cost that has to be recouped during manufacture which would push the price even higher.

[@AdelBazzineFredrikaBremergymna]

How do they utilize the excessive material? Do they reuse the chips or collect them?

[@michaldic6864]

❤NX there :)

[@johnstrac]

Excellent film Alan, very interesting. 3kg > 150g is just frightening.

[@trevekneebone369]

Yes - a frightening amount of waste - especially as titanium is in such limited supply.

[@clivewilliams3661]

I am surprised there was no more science involved in the design as ultimately the purpose is to create the lightest component for the performance that you want to put through it. I suppose that the tooth design is a standard one along with the crank drive but everything in between is open to creating the optimum performance that ought to come from a detailed analysis using say, finite element analysis. I wonder how different the chain ring would be if it was designed by a F1 team?

[@leonschumann2361]

damn cutting titanium on a syil regularly is impressive

[@makantahi3731]

this is the right thing for those who have money to throw away and don't know what to do to make themselves more important without the majority already showing it

[@Zerotonin666]

Ok seriously now GCN - stop making me want expensive stuff 😂

[@kazuviking]

By wasting 95% of that titanium. You could reduce the size of the titanium disc to the size of the chainring and wont waste a lot of material.

[@duroxkilo]

it's mentioned in the vid they currently can't source other shapes/sizes

[@kazuviking]

@@duroxkilo They could cut that wafer in half with a cheap waterjet and double the yield.

[@philflip1963]

It looks very pretty but wouldn't it be faster, (and stronger) to put the blank in a lathe and reduce it's thickness to form a continuous shallow cone the wall thickness of which varies in inverse proportion to it's diameter. Then mill the teeth around the edge.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

Absolutely beautiful chainrings but they are not cheap at £350 for a 42t.😮

[@daversj]

He’s not charging near enough if that chain ring is only $350. $100 just for the blank and 5 hrs of machine time. If you amortize the cost of the CNC machine into that part he’s losing money on complex parts like this. This is a passion project.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

@@daversj True,I work on CNC Lathes and milling machines to and the Tungsten insert cutters are really expensive.

[@festerofest4374]

@@daversj I definitely though the price was going to be higher, considering all those factors.

[@SonnyDarvish]

@@daversj He's probably giving the cut outs back to the Ti manufacturer to recycle, so, blanks should be cheaper.

[@lawmate]

​@daversj CNC machining in the UK is a lot lower cost than in US. Machine shop rates are normally £30-£60/hr. In US I understand $100/hr is pretty much the minimum. If I charged £100/hr for 3 axis work I wouldn't get any work!

[@beef5030]

I'm going to use this video to explain what I do, since the second I mention cad/cam I've lost them.

[@mlummas514]

nice chipmaster lathe in the background.

[@AlistairMartin99]

Theres nothing nice about chipmasters

[@mlummas514]

​@@AlistairMartin99 if you keep them clean and look after them there were last forever.

[@AlistairMartin99]

@@mlummas514 the variator is the issue - lets by honest you’d have a Hardinge HLVH every day of the week over a colchester

[@Garry-pd8gw]

I'm not the sharpest tool, but I love anything to do with engineering

[@gudrune]

Machining is so fun to watch. As per their website, 2X Chainring is 600GBP, 720 w VAT. I have been buying alu 2x rings from Aliexpress, shipped, for 25 eur. They do wear out quickly, i probably get 4 or 5k km out of them max. So the titanium is over 30x more expensive, and has fewer size options, but will last much longer. 30x though... Feels like a good example of how the only way to produce things in the west profitably is to do it boutique AF charging very, very steep premia. It's cool to see, but clearly not for me. They also don't talk about weight on the website, i'd bet their 2x version is heavier than an alu equivalent, another hard sell for me.

[@kamilhorvat8290]

Aluminium chainring from ali weights 140g. So what's the point of making it from titanium, when final product weights more?

[@paulpenfold2352]

I do wish they'd make more offset chainrings.

[@jameslee-pevenhull5087]

A now defunct automotive parts manufacturer in Birmingham were using CNC machines to finish the Starter Drive Pinion in,,, 1979. I was an apprentice and studying quality control.

[@titter3648]

He could save so much machining time by laser cutting the blank out of sheet metal stock, and then just finish machine it on the CNC mill.

[@dikkybee]

If you don't use the right cover gas when laser cutting it can possibly catch on fire and it can work harden making it harder to machine

[@dudeonbike800]

Forged checks: BAD! Forged cranks: GOOD! 🤣 I'm here all week. Try the veal. Tip your wait staff.

[@phillippitts6294]

How fast does it wear out chains ?

[@volodymyrdonets4166]

Hmm, I'm a bit curious, why there is no way just simply melt Titanium and pour into a special form, and then finish it with such machine?

[@paulrobinson270]

Titanium casting is a thing. It's a very challenging and specialised thing, but still a thing. For a small shop like that, cnc is probably a lot more economical

[@StefanPfafferott]

Cast metal has a different structure than forged metal. Drop or hit a piece of cast metal and it will break. Forged metal will be bent. Something delicate like a chainring would break under stress if made from cast metal.

[@superjimnz]

Depending on the grade of titanium, 7075 Aluminium can actually be stiffer, lighter and harder.

[@dikkybee]

Nope. While 7075 is lighter and conducts electricity better, Titanium is stronger, corrodes less and wears less.

[@bjorne46]

I'm always amused at how laymans look at CNC as some sort of dark magic.

[@endtimeslips4660]

now it make sense if it so expensive

[@nunuvyerbizness]

I have two questions, first of all why are we starting with such a hefty blank of titanium? 3 Kg down to 150 g why do we have to remove so much material? My second question is titanium is harder than steel, so that means that this chain ring will wear down the chain instead of the other way around. How does that affect the system?

[@dikkybee]

You did see how it was done and how would you make it without doing it the same way? If you don't start off with a blank holding the material safely would be almost impossible.

[@vo2maximus177]

A niche product I guess, and very nice too. Probably more for the harsher conditions of off-road, but to be honest by the time you've worn out a good quality OE chainring your groupset is totally knackered and long-since replaced. Either that, or they've totally reinvented the bike, which seems to happen every five years these days anyway 🤷.

[@ScottMoyse]

Cool video... shame you completely skipped over the actual CAM process though. CAD straight to Machine code isn't how it works, yet.

[@dikkybee]

Yeah it does and has for about the last 20 plus years, probably closer to 30. Mastercam and Surfcam can produce machine code for almost any machine. Unlike when I was programming in the early 80's, what took me days to do I can now do in hours.

[@PuffingOnClouds]

0:23 is aluminium the same as aluminum? So confused

[@ReiHeineken]

It is. The word is just different between English and American English speakers.

[@gcntech]

[@ajrh82]

Just started the video, already claims this is vastly superior product. Are those claims going to be backed up beyond this being a bling product 🤔

[@ajrh82]

Interesting video. Might be pricey and unnecessary but you’ve got to love the small manufacturers.

[@hockysa]

Depends on your definition of superior. It’s a weight weenie item. Titanium is stronger and can thus be lighter. But yeah it’s a game of diminishing returns.

[@peglor]

@@hockysa Depends on the grade of titanium - 7075 aluminium is harder (And therefore more wear resistant) than basic 3Al 2.5V Ti, as well as being lighter. With heat treatment, Ti can do a lot better than Al, but that isn't mentioned here, so there's a decent chance the material being used is in it's softest, annealed state as that's the easiest to machine and the dentists buying this stuff won't know the difference, nor do most of them put the miles on the chainrings to find out. With a hard anodised surface, the Al will last longer again, though Ti can be nitrided to give the same benefit. All these materials fall massively short on the wear performance of any decent grade of steel (Which can also be nitrided to increase life even more) however.

[@Minerals333]

@@peglorwhy would you mention a grade that nobody is going to use? Makes your point completely irrelevant. Grade 5 Ti (Ti6Al4V) is the most used grade in everything from motorsport to aerospace.

[@peglor]

@@Minerals333 The vast majority of bicycle frames made from Ti are 3Al 2.5V where the manufacturer specifies the material. Some will use 6-4 for dropouts or small components, but I've literally never seen a Ti frame advertised as anything other than 3-2.5. In strength to weight terms work hardened Reynolds 853 is already superior to work hardened 3-2.5 Ti, so they absolutely should be using 6-4 Ti, but they're not.

[@VeritasPraevalebit]

Standard chainrings are made from steel, not aluminium.

[@jakebrakebill]

I'm waiting for e-bike engineers to make a braking system like the engine on a train "Dynamic Brakes" you can eliminate the rear disc and caliper and turning the motor into a generator, by squeezing the brake lever, that power could be dumped back into the battery. Maybe it could work so well after some tweaking, that you could still lock up the back wheel with the brake lever and get moments of small charges.

[@keirfarnum6811]

Fascinating idea!

[@jakebrakebill]

@@keirfarnum6811 thanks, remember where you hear it first 🤣 $$$$

[@4U2CY]

I could be wrong, but I think the free wheel would stop it from working, like it would have to be a direct drive like a single speed. But maybe they can figure it out, where the idea can work.

[@jakebrakebill]

@@4U2CY your right, I didn't think of that.

[@mommamooney]

CNC machines are blooming expensive. The fluids aren’t cheap either. I used to work in a die casting outfit and we machined finishing holes and threads, as well as grinding off sharp edges

[@jameslee-pevenhull5087]

You should see JLR make a cylinder head on a 5 axis CNC miller. Wolverhampton Engine Plant. Cast Alloy Engine blocks are finished on CNC machines. ZF makes the gearboxes the same. Keith Black and most others 5 axis machine a drag race engine from one block of wrough aluminium alloy.

[@markniilo]

In the rest of the world, that's called a sprocket.

[@johnkelly7264]

When did a sprocket turn into a chain ring... what's the difference? Subbed here.

[@savagepro9060]

Brits: "Aluminium" Americans: "Aluminum" Weight Weenies:

[@Cevan42]

I presume he just 3-D scanned an existing Shimano or SRAM chain ring to get the teeth profile correct.

[@อานนท์จอสูงเนิน]

Yes. We have to pay for the materials that has been removed from that slap too.

[@oplkfdhgk]

i like how i am such a nerd that i could probably make one of those myself but the cost would probably be even higher so there is no point in doing so.

[@winters3]

15:45 from russia with love or chiiiiina

[@phearnden]

#askgcntech would titanium brake discs have advantages over current alloy ones if so what would they be and can you see titanium brake discs ever being used? Thanks

[@Tumid1]

It's been done & they are USELESS. Coefficient of friction is too low so they are too slippery.

[@Raymond-Farts]

I would use titanium chainrings if the appearance was more traditional like some of the vintage Campagnolo designs. IMO the design of the ring in this video doesn't match well with a titanium road bike.

[@johnboom6777]

Made my 81 tooth chainring the old school way ( 75yo) by lots of calculations and a rotary table from scrap checkerplate.

[@paul5683]

That must have taken you a couple of days to finish. Kinda hard to do a government job like that with the boss around. 😊

[@emilvaradi9393]

The shape is rather fancy, floral. Is that necessitated by mechanical calculations, or you could go more techno that fits modern bikes better?

[@ericmercer9208]

The shape is actually semi-functional sooo there's that?

[@albertmills9365]

How are typical mass market chain rings like shimano made? they can't be machined like this.

[@yaulkwong3775]

I can see there is a stone wall and is this a underground garage or something which indicates that the machine is damn noisy and you need to work overnight.

[@emmabird9745]

Just the present for the guy who has everything! You'd better get your order in before the proposed sanction on Russian (biggest comercial source) Titanium kicks in.

[@galenomoore1139]

Not even a link to Sturdy Cycles in the show notes? Lame.

[@ajamit007]

My guy is using NX, that Software is expensive than CNC Machine.

[@db4423]

aaand in china maybe dropforge it out of titanium for a fraction of the time and cost or use a similar method to make a sprocket

[@koitk]

Don't see every day people using NX

[@firstnamelastname9013]

👏👏👍👍

[@goldenmath4091]

I ran my own company making motorcycle parts for years , apprentice trained toolmaker, most folk have no idea of the work involved, despite turning over tens of thousands, i hardly made anything from it The UK has a very strange attitude to manual work, skilled work is lost on many, i used to get people bringing ebay stuff in to copy, but my prices were 10x what they paid and I'm still making very little Its alot of fun...to be not very wealthy

[@kazuviking]

That is why you outsource to china. Same quality for way less labour cost.

[@dodoslovensko]

HOW TO HELL im supposed go to sleep now !!!????

[@christiancondin4496]

Nice. But is it aero?😂

[@alfabethev2.074]

ti-6al-4v ?

[@dudeonbike800]

Most likely given its greater hardness than 3al-2.5v, right?

[@alfabethev2.074]

@@dudeonbike800 What !? 🤯Do you even know what you're talking about !🙄

[@neilwinkelmann8540]

Given how hard Ti is to machine, I don't really get this. It can't not be expensive.

[@dikkybee]

Given the right tools it's no harder to machine than any other alloy. People make it hard by being uneducated and not using the right tools, speeds and feeds.

[@andrewzach1921]

Comment for the algorithm

[@gcntech]

Answer for the algorithm :)

[@doctorscoot]

Why not … forged chainrings?

[@Dug6666666]

My guess is he is not doing the numbers to offset the tooling cost, and titanium is not easy to forge particularly a shape like that. Its fancy looking because he can with CNC.

[@doctorscoot]

@@Dug6666666 I wasn’t thinking for this small manufacturer in particular, but in general.

[@StacyODell]

I wonder if advances in 3D printing of Titanium will result in much lower costs due to far less waste. The CNC process is really cool but a lot of expensive Ti is literally flowing down the drain.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

Unlikely for items like this in the foreseeable future I think. Someone will always want to make parts on metal 3d printers that simply can't be milled due to their shape, and that will dictate pricing.

[@aarondcmedia9585]

It's not flowing down the drain.

[@Minerals333]

Metal 3D printing isn’t as simple as you’d think, and the cost involved in melting that much titanium needs to be considered (metal 3d printing costs silly silly money).

[@lux-wattage]

Very cool stuff! Fascinating how CNC machines remove material to shape parts, unlike 3D printers which build them layer by layer. How customizable are the chainrings? Could you for instance get something like the GCN logo cut into one?

[@gcntech]

That would be great to see! We might need to do some calculations to see how balanced the GCN letters are to make them spin 🤔

[@lux-wattage]

@gcntech That would be awesome! Imagine a GCN bike with a GCN logo chainring to go on top of the new team bus!!

[@rogersliu1200]

no scale of economics. you can buy 2 3x moe al rings still cheaper

[@RicardoPetrazzi]

Seems like a very wastefull process - would additivve manufacturing using titanium not be more efficient? What do they do with all the 'waste' titanium? Does it get salvaged and sent back to a smelter?

[@RicardoPetrazzi]

ok, wrote this before that last part of the video.....

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

Fools and their money - there's a myth that titanium is somehow lighter than aluminum. Another one's that CNC'd stuff from billet is superior to forging..and ...wait for it....3D printing is the best way to make any/everything. Marketing, marketing, marketing!!!

[@keirfarnum6811]

Aluminum is definitely lighter, but it doesn’t have the durability for the same weight.

[@svgs650r]

Pfffffft...Hell if anyone is interested I can make chainrings that are a thousand times more expensive!