How to and why upgrade suspension on Honda CRF250L

[@Shem]

Intro: 00:00 Definition of SAG (Static vs Dynamic): 00:55 Where to Measure SAG (Selecting Measurement Points): 01:24 How to Measure SAG: 02:45 How to Calculate SAG as a Percentage: 05:43 Why is SAG Important: 09:44 Why I Don't Like Changing Stock Components: 13:22 Likely Reasons Why CRF250L Suspension Is So Soft: 13:55 My Circumstances - SAG and Issues with Stock Suspension 14:49 What Can Be Done To Fix Soft Suspension and My Choice: 17:47 Why Adding Too Much Preload Is Not a Good Idea: 21:39 Rear Shock Removal: 27:31 Comparison of Stock vs. YSS Shock: 30:10 YSS Shock Length Adjustment: 31:08 YSS Shock Installation: 33:22 Front Fork Leg Removal: 39:01 Front Fork Stock Spring Removal: 40:02 Front Fork New Spring Installation: 41:48 Front Fork Leg Installation: 43:17 Update About YSS Shock Length Difference: 45:20 Post Upgrade SAG Measurements: 47:17 Post Upgrade Riding Impressions: 49:48

[@savage22bolt32]

30 seconds in. I can tell you are very well organized, so I'm giving this a listen! Edit: Thanks for a very informative video, & a huge thanks for not ruining it with crappy background music!

[@Shem]

@@savage22bolt32 Thank you! ;)

[@RonaiHenrik]

For anyone interested in the new CRF300L, its OEM spring is slightly progressive, going from 65 N/mm to 70 N/mm. Static sag is 29% (rear) and 17% (front), dynamic is 52% and 29% respectively. (I'm around 95-97 kg with full gear plus some)

[@n111254789]

Hello do you mind me asking where you got this information from? I was told the rear spring was 90N/mm which sounded high given how soft it is. I trust your information is more accurate but I'd love to see where you got those numbers from thank you so much for posting this!

[@RonaiHenrik]

@@n111254789 I went to a local independent specialist, who took it apart and measured it with one of his machines. It was quite interesting, I have learned so much about springs and suspension in that relatively short amount of time.

[@n111254789]

@@RonaiHenrik Oh okay thank you so much for sharing the information! That is extremely useful as no accurate data exists readily available right now so to know it was actually tested at that spec is fantastic. Also thanks for the prompt reply!

[@RonaiHenrik]

@@n111254789 cheers. Yea, he also tried to gather some info beforehands then he told me to just hop by because no information is out yet. He took the whole rear shock out, then told me that it is a *VERY* basic shock, he had to resort to some rarely used technique to get the spring off the shock absorber. Then he put the spring in a machine which looked like a pneumatic press of some sort, then he started to pump and compress the spring mm by mm to get the N/mm. It started off around 65 N and then it went to 70 N and didn't get any higher.

[@andrewhamilton-gill]

Congratulations on a fantastic and informative video, this complex subject was explained with great eloquence and I for one enjoyed staying with the explanation to its full conclusion. I am a tall rider and would have preferred the bike height to have been increased overall rather than decreased, but strongly agree the need to alter the stock settings by adding reasonably priced aftermarket upgrades. I for one would have no hesitation in undertaking such a task after watching this video. Well done again. I’m in....Subscribed..

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words Andrew. This is one of the nicest comments I have ever received! Glad you liked the video. I think the level of access to knowledge and information that we have this day and age is fantastic. I frequently use KZbin myself to learn new skills and to find information about all sort of things. I wanted to give something back, hence this channel. Enjoy!

[@joshb3929]

Wow. The most thorough and informative how-to video I’ve probably ever seen.

[@Shem]

Thank you!

[@MikeCoughlin-bs6hl]

Very WELL done, Shem. Though you confess to only being a novice rider, you do your homework like an engineer. Regarding suspension damping, my understanding is that the role of a shock absorber is to dampen spring oscillation ... and that the shock absorber should restrict spring oscillation to ONE oscillating cycle i.e. not allow the spring to continue oscillating (resulting in that porpoising after hitting road imperfections). Ride safely within your comfort zone while learning ... so you get home in one piece!

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words Mike! Regarding riding safely, few months back I ended up breaking my leg while riding across via Pyrenees. If you have nothing better to do, you can see 3-part video from this trip here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roDHfJmLrpiCoNE All the best, Shem

[@mollygrubber]

This is one of the best instructional videos I have ever seen, anywhere. Thoroughly explaining the theory, going through the math, and showing clearly the shop methodology: excellent work Shem, you earned a subscriber today.

[@Shem]

Thank you Peter - that means a lot to me!

[@イエンスヨハンセン]

I'm still only about 2/3 through this video, but its easily the most ive learned about bike suspension and how to work on a bike generally. Awesome video!

[@Shem]

Thank you! Glad it helped.

[@zakriC]

Hello! Many thanks for the video. THE best tutorial video on suspension and explanation that I have come across. You made it easy to understand for non-professional riders like me. Thank you so much and I hope you keep up with the good work. Best wishes.

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words. It's a bit of a statement considering how many suspension videos are out there - appreciate it! All the best!

[@zakriC]

Shem Meant every word of mine. You made it logical and easy to understand coupled with your uploaded video actually doing it. Please do keep up with the good work. Many thanks again. BW, Zac

[@pawelwolski1316]

I live in Indonesia and have YSS on my local market CRF150L, air cooled, 5 speed. It is nice and simple, valve adjustment is 10 min including opening of my beer. If you go on YSS.co.th website, they list MZ456-420 for the Rally. Interestingly Ohlins lists the same length. The YSS shock also lists the rear spring rate at 85N/mm. I test rode the 250 Rally here and was shocked how soft the rear was (170lbs). The other issue was the lack of any sort of character of the motor. At the time I had a single cylinder Kawasaki 250 naked Ninja, and that bike was a joy to ride. Seems like shock, springs up front, exhaust and fuel controller are a must to make this bike perform as it should. Here in Indo 250 is considered a "big" bike.

[@calktm]

Excellent explanation on theory of setting up ride sag and also a great tutorial on actually doing on the CRF - probably one of the best I have seen

[@Shem]

Thanks Calum!

[@thedirtdominators]

Great and very clear explanation of everything necessary! Videos like that deserve more views and attention man, keep it up :)

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words! :).

[@jonbriddon1566]

What an amazing video. One of the best I have ever seen on KZbin. Thanks so much

[@Shem]

Thanks, this is very kind of you! I'm glad you've found it useful.

[@llama233]

What a fantastic explanation of sag - a lot of places tell you to set dynamic sag to ~30% but don't go into why. Really useful video, thanks for posting!

[@Shem]

Thank you Andrew.

[@xcaceuk]

Excellent video tutorial. Thank you, I feel much more confident about upgrading and changing my own suspension having seen your tutorial. The Explanations were straightforward and made good sense, improving my understanding considerably.

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words! Glad to hear the video was helpful.

[@donreed1133]

Thanks for the great lesson on measuring front and rear suspension. The graph you showed really helped me understand why adding more preload is not necessarily the best action for improving soft suspension. You are very good at explaining these things! Thanks

[@Shem]

Thank you! It is nice to see that people find this sort of thing useful.

[@nicolasrobesyn5483]

The spring retainer clip is easily removed if you push it with a small flat screwdriver inwards. Do not try to fiddle with the ends of the clip, it will just turn around. Find the middle of the clip and pry it inwards towards the centre of the fork. All this while the fork is compressed. It should pop right out.

[@Shem]

Thanks Nicolas. What you are suggesting makes a lot of sense - unfortunately I have not thought about that during filming the video. I will defiantly try that when changing fork oil in the future. All the best!

[@Viaticboston]

Great vid mate. My standard rear shock is terrible for me, scrubs the tyre on big bumps so I’ll be installing an upgrade. Very thorough process, thank you.

[@Shem]

Thanks. Yeah, suspension upgrade is probably one of the best upgrades one can make this bike better off-road.

[@Viaticboston]

@@Shem where are you based? I’m Wiltshire way and if you ever fancy a ride out over Salisbury Plain I’d be happy to show you the sights.

[@Shem]

@@Viaticboston I'm afraid I'm based in West Yorkshire. However, my friends and I always try to do different parts of the TET (Trans Euro Trail) and I have no doubts that at some point we'll end up down south. I'll give you a shout if that happens.

[@Viaticboston]

@@Shem you’re always welcome mate.

[@allans7281]

I have the 2020 250 rally with the following upgrade: the yss rear suspension ( basic version) and Race tech front fork upgrade ( additional spring-one in each fork and better fork oil) cost: $650 total. World of differnce for the bike. Not bouncy; feels more spongy- absorbs bumps but still comfy. im 5’10” 200 lbs

[@yannhoche2765]

I'am going roughly the same road as you, and I hesitate between progressive HYPERPRO (7,8-13 N/mm) and RACE-TECH (7,1+5,0=12,1Nmm). Coul you tell me the spring rate you have now on the fork with the addition of the Race-Tech spring ? Thanks in advance !

[@bongaston2855]

That was extremely helpful! What a great video/series! I bought my 1st bike last year so I haven't worked much on a bike before. Your videos had given me the confidence to try it myself - worked out great. Thank you!

[@Shem]

Thank you - I appreciate the feedback!

[@gsd32i]

I have an Africa Twin and this video made the black art of suspension easy to understand. Great video 👍

[@Shem]

Thanks - glad it helped!

[@geireinarsen3422]

Hello, very nice video! Really good instructions as well as complementary thoughts on re-fitting the suspension (both front/rear). I am now considering buying the upcoming CRF300L Rally, and I am prepared re-fitting it with some better suspension both front and rear. I see you live in Norway (Ørsta?) as I do, though I live in Vestfold. Nice to see more and more people turning to the lighter dual-sports bikes now. It´s so much more fun and agile when off-roading than the heavier bikes. After all, biking is all about fun, whether you on, or off-road. Again: Great video, ride and stay safe!

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, the CRF300 is indeed a very interesting option, not only lighter but also more powerful than the CRF250. I may take one for a test ride once it becomes available in the UK. No, I actually live in the UK, but a friend of mine used to work in Norway and the outfit I'm wearing in the video used to belong to him. I actually visited Ørsta and this area of Norway - a really beautiful location. Yes, I completely agree - lighter bikes are so much more fun off road and give you so much more confidence in tackling hard terrain. All the best!

[@scottloudon14]

Nicely explained. It's definitely a worthwhile upgrade. The Honda engineers did a wonderful job geometry wise so responds well to the suspension improvements. I'm not completely surprised by the shock issue .There was similar confusion when when I did the suspension upgrade on my '17 "L" the available data wasn't clear. Although to be fair that was in December of '17, new model year for the "L" and new Rally. So your suggestion to measure before ordering is a great idea. However I didn't go with the YSS. The Racetech pieces were much easier to order.

[@Shem]

Thanks. Yes, the shock choice is definitely impacted by where you live and what you budget is. I wish Racetech had a better availability in the UK.

[@scottloudon14]

@@ShemLocation and budget definitely does make a difference, Racetech is in California which is where I am, so it was pretty easy. The Ohlins was a different story took considerably longer than expected, partially due to waiting for some valving components, but still all things considered worth the time and expense.

[@steveh100]

As many others have said this is a great video, I've just taken delivery of a k-tech razor lite rear and a spring for the front. It's for a 300 rally. Brooke suspension were fantasticly helpful, I know they are selling the stuff but nonetheless very helpful. As was this video. Thank you.

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words Stephen. Yes, indeed, Brook Suspension are very helpful. Good luck with your upgrade!

[@thejohnnerparty]

Good job on the video - good technical overview, component selection and evaluation. A big thumbs up.

[@Shem]

Thank you!

[@normandavies8317]

An excellent tutorial thank you. The one area most requiring upgrade as I found on mr 250 rally.

[@Shem]

Thanks Norman!

[@ktmjun_8610]

Awesome video Shem, I just got a CRF250L a month ago and I did a major overhaul, where I live there is no legal places to ride a dirtbike so I will be ridding mainly roads, I did a supermoto setup, front suspension with the 50kg racetech springs and 2 washers and rear with a YSS shock, and for motor I did a full FMF, EJK controller, K&N filter and 13-42 gearing, the bike rides very nice, anyways, looking forward to more videos of you modding the CRF, keep them coming, its winter now and the bike is away til probable April but looking forward to new videos, cheers mate!

[@Shem]

Thank you. Shame about lack of legal places to ride a dirt bike - CRF250L is an absolute joy offroad! From your other comment, I gather that your bike is the 2017 model, which means that it has the same engine power output as the rally version of the bike. Are there any benefits of adding the EJK with FMF exhaust. I.e. have you tested it prior and after, and what were you impressions? I though that people added the EJK with FMF to the older CRF250Ls (

[@ktmjun_8610]

@@Shem yes I have the 2017 and I got it fully stock, I sold my ktm 450sx due to lack of places to ride, got the 250L fully stock for a great deal, found it extremely slow, the exhaust definitely opened her up and save a lot of weight, the ejk I’m still on the fence about it, idk if it did much, but the FMF megabomb was a huuuuge difference in torque, I was very surprised when I 1st rode after instalation, it gave that little power kick that it definitely didnt have before

[@Richard.Cabeza]

Great video, helpful in a way that put confidence in those that are mechanically inclined. Both front shocks on my 2014 250M are blown and oil is leaking... it's fix time. I'll most likely just go with the seal replacement and oil option. My logic is I rode it for 7 years, sometimes with my girlfriend on the back and didn't really notice any limiting issues. I'm seriously considering buying the 300L in the next year. IF I decide to keep the 250M, I'll upgrade the suspension with the YSS kit, keep this bike for another year and have fun.

[@Shem]

Thanks! I'd imagine that the factory suspension on CRF250M would be much better than one on the CRF250L. Anyway, good luck with your 300L hunt! :).

[@stuchump6618]

Great video Shem. Very informative. I look forward to many more. I recently upgraded my 2017 250L with a YSS rear shock - it is now a totally different bike. After adjusting my sag, I wasn't expecting the massive difference in seat height. I hope I didn't make a mistake in the calcs. The manual says the rear axle travel is 239 mm, so should my Dynamic sag be 30% x 239 mm = 72 mm? Again great work on the video. One of the best on youtube.

[@Shem]

Hey Stu. Thank you for your kind words. 72mm of rear dynamic sag is perfect. Out of interest, did you change anything in your front suspension? And if not, how do you find the balance between the front and back after replacing the rear shock?

[@twc9000]

Excellent video. Very good explainations and demonstrations.

[@Shem]

Thank you! Appreciate the feedback.

[@theravedaddy]

CHEAP TIP: the 250M spring and rear shock are stiffer than the L. My M with L wheels is just as stable at speed on the trail as my mates L fitted with ohlins front n rear.

[@Richard.Cabeza]

Good point. Is the shock length 395mm on the M? My CRFM is 2014 and I'm trying to decide if I want to spend the money on the YSS shock/spring. Want to make sure I spend the money wisely.

[@Blum61]

Thank you for the detailed information! Just ordered the YSS shock for my 2019 CRF250L rally, and the Hyperpro progressive for front. Can't wait till riding season, still snow on the ground here in northern British Columbia. Best Regards! PS. I love my Rally

[@Shem]

You are welcome! And good luck with your project :).

[@dickiegoodtimes]

Absolutely fantastic video. Thank you so much. Can’t wait to make the changes to my 2020 CRF250L, so detailed. Great work 👌🤙

[@Shem]

Thank you and good luck with your mods!

[@worldhello1234]

@13:46 If the manufacturer cheaped out on something, there is no point in leaving the suspension as it is. @14:10 Exactly, and since people aren't created equally and roads aren't created equally an upgrade is due.

[@stevebell1472]

Great video, very helpful and informative. Just waiting for my parts now 👍

[@Shem]

Thank you!

[@biscuitsalive]

“You get your friend or other half to measure it for you.” Sir, but what if your other half IS your friend? XD

[@Shem]

Hahaha, then you are a very lucky man! ;)

[@mitchwiebell2785]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for such an informative video!

[@davidsharpe9408]

The best explanation of suspension issues ever. Especially the part about a new spring and old shock correlation being out of sync so to speak. I realize the 200mm was just an example but what's best way to measure total travel on rear? Thx a bunch for the great info.

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words David and glad you found my video useful. Measuring the rear wheel travel accurately is tricky. I'd normally try to get it from manufacturer specification and work with that number. If I was to attempt to measure it, I'd probably do the following: 1) Remove the shock, then remove the spring from the shock and mount it back on the bike. 2) Lift the bike in the centre and allow the real wheel to droop. Measure the distance from the rear wheel axle to the point somewhere on the bike's frame, directly above the axle. 3) Rest the bike on its wheels keeping it upright to allow its rear suspension to fully compress. Measure the distance between the same two points as per the above. 4) The difference between the two measurements would give you approximation of the rear wheel travel. My concern with what I suggested above is that it is measuring the travel in a straight line (perpendicular to the ground). In most motorcycle suspensions, the wheel actually moves in an arc, so it will travel greater distance that in a straight line. I'm not actually sure how manufacturers report the real suspension travel. Moreover, shock absorbers usually have bumps stops which compress under heavy hits but are unlikely to compress under the weight of the bike. As such, even with the shock spring removed, you are not getting the 'full picture'. Please note - I'm far from being an expert in these matters, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable will come back to you with a better idea in this comment section.

[@rosarioroberto5823]

Greetings, As always another brilliant detailed video production 🇺🇸🍾🎉🇺🇸 Would you provide me with the link to purchase the shock and the spring. Thank you so much for assisting me and keep producing more videos about the CRF

[@Shem]

Thank you, glad it was useful. I don't tend to provide links because the assortment of shops changes over time, and the place you may want to buy will be different depending on which country you live in. So you need to do a Google search of the shops available in your location and determine the best vendor yourself. All the best!

[@sk8lucas]

That was a great video. Very informative. Cheers from Brazil!

[@Shem]

Thanks, appreciate your kind words.

[@osal4323]

Great video! Which it´s the wind shield?

[@peterbuxey4355]

You should bounce suspension up and down a couple o times. Before. Doing up pinch bolts on front axle it centres forks so they are parallel cheers great vid

[@Shem]

Good point, I've missed that bit. Thank you.

[@BIG-K]

Excellent! That video included great explanations and demonstrations. Thank you Shem!

[@Shem]

You are welcome Big Keith! :)

[@gordonblackley8863]

To help you with lifting the front, remove the “judder spring” from the clutch and replace it with a standard friction plate, the clutch will work far better for this, and will be less likely to overheat. The bonus is they are only £10 from Honda. (You may need a gasket of course)

[@Shem]

Thanks Gordon. I'll have a look into this.

[@whileistillcan9338]

I've done this as well and the clutch is noticeably more responsive. Judder spring is good for newbies as it slips a little and is therfore less grabby.

[@HFIII]

Shem Great content, thank you for the effort and time you put into making this video. Very helpful and useful information, doing this upgrade soon. Happy riding friend from the US

[@Shem]

Thank you for your kind words. Glad it was helpful. Happy riding to you too! :)

[@RonaiHenrik]

I own the 300L and this video was still very useful. I might try to adjust the preload first but then if that doesn't help, will have to look around for new shock/spring. YSS has the budget option for 300L already, 320 GBP. I'm the exact same weight as you so it should work for me too (86 kg - 105 kg shock)

[@Shem]

Nice! I would imagine that the process will be very similar. Good luck with your upgrade.

[@RonaiHenrik]

@@Shem checked the rear sag and the static is 29%, dynamic is 52%. Without preload.

[@Sertao2013]

Does the 300l have the same shock as the 250l ?

[@RonaiHenrik]

@@Sertao2013 I have no clue unfortunately.

[@RonaiHenrik]

@@Sertao2013 the spring in the 300L is slightly progressive and 65-70 N/mm

[@cleandirt11]

I am about to undertake the same front and rear suspension upgrade. I am wondering if you considered the option of adding the second spring to the left hand fork as many do with the RaceTech spring kit? Did you have pros and cons of adding left vs replacing right (other than cost) that you considered before making the decision to replace the right side one? Thanks.

[@Shem]

I'm afraid I've not analysed it at all. Importing Race Tech gear into the UK was not really the route I wanted to take. Race Tech are a reputable business and I would not have any issues with running the forks with two springs instead of one. On the other hand, you are adding weight, and Honda released that fork with just one spring in it, so I did not have any issues with keeping the configuration the same, just with a slightly stiffer spring.

[@Spiderflash22]

Great video, I have ordered a new front spring for my 250L. Is it possible to change the spring without removing the fork? It looks a bit daunting to remove so much!

[@Shem]

Sorry about the delay. You probably could, measuring the oil height would be a bit tricky.

[@heynow3788]

Great video! It helped inspire me to purchase an Ohlins rear shock and front springs. I'll probably increase the weight of the oil in the front fork to control the heavier spring but I'm also interested in revalving the damper so I'm doing some research on that. I know Race Tech sells "gold valves" and K-tech sells a Revalve kit as well so those are some options but i may try changing the stock valving once I learn a bit more about it. Is it something you would consider making a video on?

[@Shem]

Thanks! I would consider doing a video if I was planning to do the upgrade myself. I'm happy with the suspension as it is after the upgrade, so instead of making any more changes, I will put the effort into learning to be a better rider ;). All the best!

[@rjandres17]

A great video. Thank-you for sharing your experience and showing the math!

[@Shem]

No problem. Thanks!

[@DirtHero75]

Great job Shem!

[@Shem]

Thank you.

[@DimitrisMotovlogs]

Very nice explanation about sag and the suspension on the 250L! I also got a 2020 model and i was puzzled about the shock length. The official YSS site mentions a 380mm rear shock for bikes 2017- onwards but that seems to be wrong. In a couple of months i am planning to get a YSS rear shock too, do you think it will make any difference if i order the longer one (395mm) for the previous CRF model even though i got a 2020 model?

[@ktmjun_8610]

Hey Dimitris, I upgraded my 2017 with the yss shock and the sent me the wrong one as well, I got one for 12 or 13-16 and its the 395mm, I installed and I love it man, I love how the bike is way taller than before, I'm on my tippy toes now and it rides amazing, ridding position is very good too, I do say go with the 395 if you are 5'-10+

[@DimitrisMotovlogs]

@@ktmjun_8610 thanks man! I am 5' 8" but i dont have a problem with ride height, i can manage it even if it gets a bit taller. I am going to get the 395mm version then!

[@Shem]

@Dimitris Motovlogs - Thanks. If your stock shock measures 395mm, I would order the YSS shock of the same length. Have you actually measured your shock - is it definitely 395mm? Just FYI - I'm awaiting an answer from Brook Suspension (UK shop where I bought my shock from) regarding feedback from YSS. It appears that either Honda changed something in the newer bikes or YSS has incorrect info. I'll publish and update here once they got back to me.

[@ACannaos]

@@Shem I'm in touch with Brook Suspension, same doubt here, the thai version is the 380mm kenght, I have the 2018 version and I don't know which mono I ha ve to order .. No answer fron YSS until now ...

[@cleandirt11]

@@ktmjun_8610 So I am having this same discussion with a YSS rep in USA. They say that the 2017 and newer should only have a 280mm shock but the 2016 and older have the 295. I really don't want to lower my bike as I am 6'1". I have a 2017 model. I guess I should pull it off and measure it. But based on what I am hearing on here and other places, it sure sounds like the US version of this bike comes with a 295mm rear shock. Any help to confirm this would be appreciated. So, did your 2017 have a 280 stock or a 295??

[@muddyboots-mac]

The YSS seems shorter and you adjusted it to match the same length with the stock, need your advice, what if i dont adjust the length of the YSS, will it fit nicely?

[@Shem]

The shock will definitely fit and this will lower your overall bike height, and it will change it's geometry slightly. However, before you do that, you should check to make sure that the rear wheel is not rubbing against anything when the shock is under full compression.

[@muddyboots-mac]

@@Shem Thank you

[@danielo9944]

Amazing video! Thank you!

[@cleandirt11]

So, I am having same questions about the shock length. FANTASTIC video by the way, best I've ever seen covering this topic. So, it appears your 2020 (2019?) model had the 395mm? I have a 2017 and am about to order the YSS. Just trying to figure out if I should go with 280 or 295.

[@Shem]

Thank you. Regarding your shock length - don't be like me; just take yours out and measure it before you order (for peace of mind). It will only take you 15min.

[@2shoestoo]

Very detailed and informative, thank you for the information

[@Shem]

No problem, thanks!

[@obazaar3363]

Suggestion: In that others can find your video add a tag with the phrase motorcycle/suspension analysis

[@Shem]

Good idea, although from what I've observed so far, KZbin algorithms put a lot more weight onto video engagement and overall upload frequency of the channel, rather than onto the actual video titles/tags. No harm in trying though. Thanks!

[@cleandirt11]

This video is SO helpful. One thing I've wondered about is getting the fork shaft lined up after you reinstall it. Obviously the fork shaft can be rotated left and right, which would effect how the hole lines up for axle bolt. Did you do anything special to help insure that you were getting the fork shaft reinstalled with the right alignment? And guess the height as well.

[@Shem]

I'm not quite sure if I understand the question. Are you referring to the upper fork legs (sliders) or lower fork legs (stanchions)? If during installation you change the position of the slider in the fork crown, then you compensate for it by rotating the stanchion, so the wheel axle holes (dropouts) are aligned.

[@cleandirt11]

@@Shem Oh my goodness, I guess that shows my lack of knowledge about the whole setup. In my mind I was thinking that the sliders and the Stanchions were both connected together and rotated as one solid unit. AHHH, but if they are independent in their rotation, this is a non-issue. Wow, thanks for helping out a newbee. :-0

[@Sertao2013]

How much money are you talking about to get the suspension the way you like it with the new parts ? There is about 300 dollars difference in the 2021 Kawasaki klx 300 and the Honda crf 300 L The klx has adjustment in both front and back and the crf doesn't . Is it worth getting the klx for 300 more ? It sounds like to me your going through a hole lot of trouble and extra money just to get what the klx already has on it stock . Would you do a video on how the stock klx300 shocks compare to the stock crf 300l shocks ?

[@Shem]

I’ve not ridden the 300L so cannot really comment on its suspension. To get the suspension better on the 250L, you’ll have to spend min 330 GBP, so this appears to be your difference between the CRF and KLX. I’ve not ridden the KLX300, I somehow missed it when I was searching for my bike, but from what I can see from the specs, it seems like a really promising bike. You probably won’t get as many accessories for it as for the CRF250L, but definitely worth considering. It is unlikely I’ll be doing any comparisons between the newer bikes. I’m not really a KZbinr, and I only make videos when I work on something myself and think it may be useful to somebody else. I don’t really go out of my way to make these videos, so you’ll have to look for this type of comparisons somewhere else, sorry.

[@davidsharpe9408]

Shem Thanks a bunch for ur reply and all the info.

[@whileistillcan9338]

Thank you soo much for making this video. I'm in the same boat. I don't want to spend 20% off the cost of the bike just to upgrade the suspension. I knew there had to be a more reasonable solution and this is it. I could probably live with the front suspension if the rear wasn't like a pogo stick. The other problem with tightening the preload too much is the shock hyper extends with an extreme clunk over whoops. What compression and rebound settings did you end up with?

[@Shem]

You are welcome. I've just used the settings that came recommended in the YSS shock manual (it actually came 'pre-set'). I've not had a chance to play with them yet. Saying that, I've been really happy with the change, thus I wasn't really encouraged to tweak anything.

[@robertfancher7381]

Now that it is been a while since you've performed the suspension mods how are the forks working?

[@Shem]

Due to various lockdowns I have not been riding as much as I would have liked to. Saying that, I have probably done 5 or 6 full days since, and no issues or complains about suspension. As a matter of fact, I don't really think about the suspension anymore which is a good sign!

[@robertfancher7381]

@@Shem thank you for the information. I'm going with the same front set up that you have except I'm going to a 15 weight oil to help with rebound and compression

[@infernalcontraptions]

Hi and thanks for a really great video - fantastically useful. One question: Did the suspension upgrade affect the road handling at all? I use my Rally approximately 60% commuting/40% off road, so would be really useful to know before I purchase! Thanks again!

[@Shem]

Thanks Tim. I have not noticed any impact on how the bike handles on the road. Saying that, I wasn't specifically paying attention to this aspect, but I'm pretty sure if there were any significant negative effects of this change, I would have noticed them.

[@infernalcontraptions]

@@Shem 👍🏻🙏

[@r101e6]

Great video Shem. One question: what viscosity oil do you recommend in the front?

[@Shem]

Thanks. Apologies for a rather late reply - for some reason I did not get a notification about your message. I'm afraid I cannot comment on this as I have only tried to fork with with stock oil viscosity. When the time comes to changing fork oil, I will most likely replace it with the same viscosity (SAE 10 if I remember correctly).

[@robertfekete4827]

Hi Shem. I'm looking for suspension upgrade as well. Where did you get your springs? Can you get it in Europ as well, or you ordered it from US?

[@Shem]

Hi Robert. I live in the UK, and I ordered my front spring and rear shock from brooksuspension.co.uk. Not sure about availability in Europe - Google is your friend. All the best.

[@robertfekete4827]

Thanks for your quick response

[@martinbretfeld1228]

For your information, i have a 2019 CRF250L and also a 395mm shock in the rear original. I'm from Germany. Maybe just in Asia 380mm since 2017? I found the 380mm lenght only at YSS. Other aftermarket suppliers (wilbers, hyperpro) sold one length for all years.

[@Shem]

Thanks Martin. It is reassuring to know that my bike is not the only one that came with that length. Perhaps YSS has got their data wrong or like you said, the 380mm is only for Asia.

[@wesb6500]

Great video Where did you buy your front race tech spring from?

[@Shem]

Thanks. I bought it from: www.brooksuspension.co.uk/

[@allans7281]

It's a preset spring from Race Tech (just call them)

[@stevieg7403]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that you needed 120 nm spring? Who is there somewhere where you could calculate that?

[@Shem]

Hey Stevie, sorry about the delay. I've tried to work it out but with the suspension linkage travel being potentially not proportional to the real wheel travel, this started getting a little complicated. Long story short, I've ordered the hardest spring/shock combination that YSS offered for the off-road use.

[@nathanhaines4936]

Loved your video, very well done! I do have a question about why you say it's bad to use too much preload though (starting at 21:39). In your argument you claim that if you add a lot of preload, it then takes too much force to move the first mm from 0mm travel. Why does that matter to you? You're using preload to set dynamic sag. That means you're already compressing the spring to something like 30% of the travel (somewhere around the 20mm mark on your graph). At that point, it doesn't matter how much force it took to move from 0mm to 1mm... And to go from 20mm to 21mm will take the same amount of force with or without preload. In other words, if your dynamic sag is set to a reasonable level, it doesn't matter how much preload you used to get there (within specs obviously), it will still take the same amount of force to compress the suspension from that point onward, which is what matters when you're actually riding the motorcycle. Am I missing something?

[@Shem]

Hey Nathan! Thank you for your kind words and for challenging my argument! Believe it or not, but these types of comments are my favourite as it makes me question if my logic is correct and I always learn something new in the process. I’m totally aligned with what you are saying, at least the first part of it. When you compress the suspension by sitting on the bike, the force required for the shock to move another mm is the same for the shock with and without the preload (when using a linear spring). If we take the stock one as an example, then it is 93N. So actually, by putting a stiffer spring, you make it harder for the suspension to move the first mm when you sit on the bike. If we take my spring as an example, it is 120N. The underlying assumption in your point is that the suspension compresses further ONLY from the point after the biker’s weight is on the bike. This does not take into account negative travel and the fact that rider’s weight is dynamic (in a sense that it does not always apply the same downward force on the bike). Let me use couple of crude examples to illustrate my point: You’re going at speed and ride over a large diameter hole. Your suspension quickly decompresses to maintain wheel’s contact with the ground, so at this point the spring is fully open. There is a small bump in the hole which your wheel hits. For your suspension to move the first mm it now requires 93N force when you use your spring without the preload or 651N when you use your spring with 6mm preload. Consequently, I’d argue that the more preload you have, the more likely you are to feel that bump. Another example could be of what happens when you ride aggressively and get “launched up”. I.e. the terrain is shaped as a bit of a ramp, which means that if you hit it at speed, there will be a short period of time when the downforce of you and the bike acting on the suspension is negligible, and yet your wheels are still hitting the bumps on the track’s surface. In this case, you want the suspension to be as compliant as possible because it does not have “weight” to act against. And if you imagine rider and bike interaction during off-roading, this happens continuously. Long story short, I’m arguing that replacing the spring instead of adding the preload improves two things: 1) “Dynamic” suspension compliance - everything that happens where the full rider’s weight does not act on the bike (the area of the chart to the left of when the red and doted-blue lines crossover). 2) Bottoming out resistance - everything that happens when the full rider’s weight acts on the bike (the area of the chart to the right of where the red and doted-blue lines crossover). Anyway, I hope that I am making sense. I’d be interested to know your thoughts. All the best, Shem

[@nathanhaines4936]

Hi @@Shem, thanks for the thoughtful reply! I think I should clarify, I totally agree with your conclusion that if someone ends up at the extreme end of the preload specs for their suspension, they should probably consider replacing the spring. And I'm also on board with the bottoming out resistance reasoning from your video - that is very important, especially for off-road, in my opinion. I don't think I've assumed suspension only compresses with the rider on it or ignored their dynamic load within the range of travel. My assumption, or understanding, is just that anywhere within that full range of travel (i.e. from 1mm to 60mm), the 651N of preload does not matter. I was mostly just curious to hear your thoughts on where the force to move that "first" mm of travel would come into play in practice, so I really appreciate your examples. My thoughts are that, theoretically, the examples you've given definitely make sense, but I'm not convinced that they would ever be noticeable enough in practice to influence a spring change decision, especially for someone who generally likes the feel of a plush ride on a softer spring for the 99% of the time they're not in either of those scenarios. They just strike me as such brief transitional moments (where the suspension is in that "hover" zone, having less than 651N on it) and they would involve so much other stuff going on with the bike/rider in the real world, that I'm not sure they'd ever be noticed, to be honest. Anyway, I'm certainly no expert, and that's just my opinion... You could very well be right 🙂 And thanks again for your great instructional videos! You definitely have a talent for it.

[@robertfancher7381]

Great how to video! What spring rate did you use in the front?

[@Shem]

Thank you. 8.5N/mm - it is in the video description with all other details that you may need.

[@robertfancher7381]

@@Shem thank you! I cut the video short because I had to go do something for my wife real quick. I ordered the front spring from K-Tech. Not for sure what I want to do with the rear yet

[@lawrencehunt5890]

Great video, most informative, thank you.

[@Shem]

You are welcome!

[@yannhoche2765]

Remarquable ! Merci beaucoup pour cette présentation facile à suivre et à comprendre. Je suis moi-même en train de réfléchir à la modification de la suspension de ma CRF 250 RALLY en vue de voyages (Portugal, Maroc, Asie Centrale). La suspension d'origine est clairement à la peine avec une charge tout compris qui devrait avoisiner les 120 kg. Au vu de la présentation, j'imagine partir sur 8,5 peut-être 9 N/mm à l'avant et sur un tarage à 140 N/mm à l'arrière. Quel est votre avis ?

[@yannhoche2765]

Thanks a lot Shem for this remarquable and didactic video. I'am myself preparing my 250 RALLY for long trips (Portugal, Marocco, Central Asia and what you have done is very useful. My overall weight while traveling will be around 120 kg (pilot, equipment, accessories, luggages, water, fuel, tools, etc.). Based on your first-hand experience, I would probably go with a 140 N/mm rear mono-shock and the same as you in front (more course on the Rally). What would be your opinion on that ?

[@Shem]

@@yannhoche2765 Thanks. RaceTech USA have a spring calculator on their website, you could use that for calculating value of your rear spring, starting with just your rider weight and then using 120kg as rider weight. That would give you a good indication where to start with spring rating. They also have a calculator for the front spring, but it spits out results for adding additional spring to your fork as opposed to replacing the one you have. I believe Rally version of the bike has different spring ratings to the standard L version, so don’t rely one the values I used in my video. All the best!

[@yannhoche2765]

@@Shem Thanks Shem, I went there and had the calculator run the figures for me and my bike (250 RALLY), but there are huge discrepancies which can't be accounted for only by the differences between our bikes. An example : for the stock shock, they present 63 N/mm versus 93 N/mm for your CRFL!! In terms of preconisations they propose 78 N/mm compared to your 120 N/mm, for a comfy weight of 120 kg all in (pilot, equipment, luggage, water, etc.)

[@Shem]

@@yannhoche2765 I believe the discrepancies are only to do with the differences between the bikes. Let me use the rear shock as an example. I don’t remember exact measurements so, so I’m going to use approximation to illustrate the point. L shock is 395mm long. Rally shock is 420mm long. Lets assume that the different is length (25mm) is due to increased travel of Rally shock. The L shock has 60mm travel. The Rally shock has 85mm travel. To compress my shock fully I need 5580N (60mm x 93N/mm). To compress your shock fully you need 5355N (85mm x 63N/mm). So the bottoming out resistance of both will be practically the same. So long story short, by having a longer shock you can use softer springs... You also have to consider that you have slightly more rear wheel travel, but that increase % is very small in comparison to % of shock length increase, but that of course would have been taken into account when rear linkage ratio was calculated for your bike. To sum up. I believe that stock spring values you are getting from Race Tech are correct.

[@Shem]

@@yannhoche2765 I believe the discrepancies are only to do with the differences between the bikes. Let me use the rear shock as an example. I don’t remember exact measurements so, so I’m going to use approximation to illustrate the point. L shock is 395mm long. Rally shock is 420mm long. Lets assume that the different in length (25mm) is due to increased travel of Rally shock. The L shock has 60mm travel. The Rally shock has 85mm travel. To compress my shock fully I need 5580N (60mm x 93N/mm). To compress your shock fully you need 5355N (85mm x 63N/mm). So the bottoming out resistance of both will be practically the same. So long story short, by having a longer shock you can use softer springs... You also have to consider that you have slightly more rear wheel travel, but that % increase is very small in comparison to % of shock length increase. That of course would have been taken into account when rear linkage ratio was calculated for your bike. To sum up. I believe that stock spring values you are getting from Race Tech are correct.

[@jamoyme4475]

Hi shem, does it lowered your bike? Thanks. Nice video

[@Shem]

Hey Jamoy. Yes, just watch the video from 31:08 to 33:31 and that should answer your question in more detail.

[@muddyboots-mac]

nice content, i have seen at yss webiste so many models for the front and rear for CRF250L i m not sure which one to choose, can you recommend me for light medium off road adventure and normal road use, thank you.

[@Shem]

Thanks Mac. I'm not really intimately familiar with their product range. I've listed the shock version I purchased in the video description. Perhaps if you contact YSS directly stating your weigh (with gear on) and riding style, they may be able to help you.

[@muddyboots-mac]

@@Shem Hi, just got my YSS Damper Adjustable MZ456-395TR-10-X Honda Crf 250 L 2013-2014 and cost me EUR 362.54 Shipping EUR 55.88 Order total EUR 418.42 to Brunei Darussalam. I find it is very costly as the item is from UK. I should have ordered it from Thailand as it is only 2hrs away on flight. From you UK it is 14hr 30min. Your video is very helpful for me, thanks for the detail content.

[@Shem]

@@muddyboots-mac No problem. Yes, Thailand seems like a much better place to by it from for you.

[@ryanphotostudio]

Thank you. Excellemnt video!

[@Shem]

Thank you.

[@leonwaldman3081]

Thanks for a great video! I'd like to ask why you've changed the spring only in the right suspension of the front fork? Are the left and the right suspensions of the fork the same in terms of internal parts?

[@Shem]

I believe the stock fork has only one spring - in the right leg, whereas all of the valving is in the left leg.

[@leonwaldman3081]

@@Shem Thank you !

[@ktmjun_8610]

@@Shem stock it only has spring on one side of the legs, what I did was a little different from Shem, I added a racetech spring to the left leg which comes with no spring and it is a night and day difference!

[@yannhoche2765]

@@ktmjun_8610 I am going probably the same road ! Could you tell me the new spring rate you have now resulting from adding the race-tech spring ? Is it still comfy for the little bumps on the road ? Race-Tech spring rate preconisation seems to me very high compared to,the stock and other proposals I have.

[@ktmjun_8610]

@@yannhoche2765 yes still very comfortable, I added an extra washer for stiffer ridding since my ride is 99% road, but you can just go without adding any extra washers, which I think would be the sweet spot

[@iangriffiths9930]

Hi Shem, did you get any feedback from YSS regarding the shock length? Also I can see YSS have 2 versions of the CRF250l shock, a road version and an off road version, can you explain the difference between them please? Thanks

[@Shem]

Not heard back from YSS yet. The communication with Brook Suspension went quiet - I don't think they are getting any feedback from YSS regarding this matter. I think that the road version of the shock is much stiffer than the off-road one, but contact the seller for more details as there may be other differences too.

[@iangriffiths9930]

Hey Shem, so the shorter shock is for the Asia market, well that’s what I was told, can I also ask about torque settings? Top bolt 54nm bottom bolts 44nm? Doesn’t feel that tight to me, are these correct and have you had to re check them please

[@darseyno1520]

Hi Shem, i have been really interested in your videos and i know that this is really off topic. I have just bought a crf 250l and have bought some led indicators for it. I have the rear ones fitted but when i come to the front there are three wires in the original indicators but in mine there are only two. i suppose one of them is for day light running. How can i overide this or what do you suggest that i do. i do know that i need a relay flasher to correct the speed of the flashing but if i could only get the front ones working for now.

[@Shem]

Congratulations on your purchase! Your timing is impeccable... I have fitted a new set of LED indicators on my bike couple of days ago, and just today I have finished filming another video about a tail tidy and indicator installation. Yes, you are correct - at the front, the 3rd indicator cable is to keep them permanently on as soon as the ignition is on. My new indicators had only 2 wires too, so I ignored the ‘day running lights’ wire and connected them to the remaining two wires. Green being the negative if memory serves me right. On a separate note, did you have to replace the indicator relay to keep the indicators flashing at the normal rate?

[@darseyno1520]

@@Shem i am waiting on the relay coming in the post. I have already fitted the tail tidy with the led indicators. when i went to fit the front two they worked as day time but didn't work when i turned the indicator to the right or to the left. So maybe i have not used the right wires so that is why i contacted. I have put the stock indicators back unto the front until i hear how to wire the new ones properly. Are all of your indicators working even at a quicker flash rate and if so i am looking forward to you video. When will you post it up Shem.

[@Shem]

@@darseyno1520 Yeh, it sound like you connected your new front indicators to 'day light' wires as oposed to the indicator ones. With the new relay in place, even with 2 stock indicators and 2 LED indicators, all were blinking at the same rate.

[@Sertao2013]

Can I just put some rubber blocks between the rear spring like I use to do on a old truck springs I had . Wouldn't the blocks keep the spring from bottoming out so easy on the stock shock ?

[@Shem]

Most shocks (including the stock one) already come with a rubber stop bumper. Also, even if you managed to prevent all ‘bottoming out’ this does not really address the issue of the excessive SAG and how that impacts your suspension performance. Stop bumper is a last resort and there for ‘emergencies only’. By adding more of it, you’re not really addressing the root cause of the issue, you are just treating the symptoms. It like treating a cancer with pain killers. Long story short, I would not do it.

[@owlteachereducation]

Superb video. Many thanks. Subscribed 👍

[@Shem]

Thank you 👍

[@wesb6500]

Hi Maybes answered before but where did you get the manual from?

[@Shem]

I Googled it: thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1219060-crf250l-service-manual-pdf/

[@iangriffiths9930]

My buddy has just bought a new Hagon shock for his 250l and seems to really like it, I was thinking about using the YSS shock and so can I ask why you went for the YSS over the other options? With the issues you had with YSS would you recommend them? Thanks, oh yeah great video by the way!

[@Shem]

Hey Ian. Sure, I went for the YSS mainly because of the price, good opinions that I’ve read on the Internet and the fact that the it was available from a really good dealer near where I live - Brook Suspension. Yes, despite the length issue, I’d still recommend it.

[@Sertao2013]

Going by the original shock can you tell me what front and rear shock I would need with a 206 pound person setting on the bike and say 20 pounds worth of camping gear .

[@Shem]

No idea. You need to contact shock manufacturers for them to advise on that. RaceTech used to have a calculator on their website so it may be worth checking that.

[@joshharmon4867]

I want to lower my bike because I’m short. Is it still a good idea to upgrade suspension?

[@Shem]

If you are planning to do any serious off-roading, and your stock suspension is too soft for you, then I'd say yes.

[@Scott-kg1fd]

Excellent video

[@Shem]

Thanks!

[@normansadventures6554]

any links as to where to buy the yss rear shock for the crf250l?

[@Shem]

I don't include links because these tend to expire overtime, and also, because people who watch these videos are from a variety of countries. Long story short - Google is your friend.

[@andydavison7263]

Hey Shem cracking explanation where are you in the world so i can bring mine to you to sort out Hahahahha

[@Shem]

Hey Andy - good one! If I ever end up unemployed, I'll give you a shout... ;)

[@ACannaos]

Hi Shem , please can you tell us which model year is your bike ?

[@Shem]

Hey Andrea. Sure. It has a 2020 registration plate on it but according the the VIN it is a 2019 model.

[@joeyc8623]

Great video thanks

[@Shem]

Thanks.

[@cleandirt11]

Do you think you could have replaced the front spring without removing the fork? By just taking off the cap and doing the work while still attached to the bike? I don't have a nice vice to hold the fork like you have.

[@Shem]

I don't see why not but I've not tried that myself.

[@ozziejim8472]

You can just measure from the top of the axle nut.

[@Shem]

True. However, if for any reason you have removed the real wheel, if you ever want to quickly check one of the measurements and use it with the other ones you already have, you have to make sure that the wheel nut is in the same position to avoid inconsistencies (i.e. flat surface vs. edge of the nut).

[@larrybellucci4708]

Great job!

[@Shem]

Thank you.

[@Journeyman1642]

Wait! Where the fuk did the 200mm come from???.

[@Shem]

I think the key to solve this mystery is in the word “example” 😁