How to answer Medical Ethics interview questions

📚 Pre-order my book to get an exclusive ticket to The Feel-Good Productivity Annual Planning Workshop!
Website: www.feelgoodpr...
Amazon: go.feelgoodpro...
Interview Crash Course Online - courses.aliabd....
This video covers the basics (and some advanced stuff) about how to answer medical ethics scenarios. We're deliberately giving you more than you 'need to know', because hopefully if you're watching this video, you want to stand out in your medicine interviews rather than scraping by :)
We discuss a medical ethics scenario that I got in my Imperial interview, using the 4 principles approach. We then expand on those a bit, giving you some tidbits that you can throw into your medical ethics answers to get brownie points with your interviewers. Finally, we end with a discussion of where the 4 principles of ethics actually come from, briefly explaining the meaning of virtue ethics, deontology and utilitarianism.
Enjoy xx
Timestamps:
00:00 - My Introduction
01:52 - Charlotte and Molly introducing themselves
02:34 - The scenario we'll be tackling
03:32 - The 4 principles of medical ethics
05:24 - Applying the 4 principles to this case
07:46 - More about JUSTICE, the key issue in this case
09:48 - More about NON-MALEFICENCE
11:11 - QALYs and how they relate to justice
13:44 - Key tip - think about practicalities, not just abstract ethics
15:23 - Interim summary
15:45 - Where do the 4 principles come from?
19:58 - Virtue ethics, deontology and utilitarianism
24:04 - Summary and closing remarks
Links:
QALYs - en.wikipedia.o...
6med:
6med is a company that my friends and I have been running since 2013. We've taught courses on interviews, BMAT and UKCAT to ~5,000 students with glowing reviews. As we graduate from medical school and become real doctors, we didn't want our course material to go to waste, so we're making KZbin videos on everything we know and releasing them over time.
If you'd like to check out the courses, or our online BMAT/UKCAT question banks, check out 6med.co.uk.
Interview Crash Course Online - courses.aliabd....
6med Interview Crash Course - 6med.co.uk/int...
6med MMI Crash Course - 6med.co.uk/mmi...
Who am I:
I'm Ali, a junior doctor working in Cambridge, UK. I make videos about medicine, technology, productivity and lifestyle design. I also have a weekly podcast with my brother ( / notoverthinking , and I write a weekly email newsletter that contains some quick thoughts + links to interesting things (aliabdaal.com/....
💌 Sign up to my weekly email newsletter - aliabdaal.com/...
🌍 My website / blog - www.aliabdaal.com
🎙My weekly podcast - / notoverthinking
📸 Instagram - / aliabdaal
🐦 Twitter - / aliabdaal
🎮 Twitch - / aliabdaal
🎬 My online course on video editing - skl.sh/32TpEvm
🎥 My KZbin Camera Gear - kit.co/AliAbdaal

[@tomkrys3331]

Used the term QALY in a practice interview. Interviewer's jaw hit the floor. Got full marks on that section. Thank you very much for that!!!

[@sabrinakourane4779]

i am kind of lost since English isnt my main spoken tongue. The term QALY is reffered for what? thank you

[@CopSKGeometryDash]

@@sabrinakourane4779 it's quality adjusted life years. It is elaborated at 11:11 .

[@Tori-ur2rb]

Did you actually mention the term or just used the concept?

[@godgod6335]

@@sabrinakourane4779 it's like comparing the health condition of an individual throughout 1 year, it can be plotted in a graph where 1 is the max (perfect health) and 0 is the origin (death). I suggest you Google it tho

[@declanrocky5598]

i know Im randomly asking but does anyone know a tool to get back into an instagram account? I stupidly lost the password. I would love any tricks you can offer me!

[@user-pq7nx6uq5r]

before i even start the video - bless you for making all of these! you have no idea how helpful/essential i find them!

[@ukhan252]

@@aliabdaal Sooo frickin helpful, THANK YOU!!

[@danielsevell5732]

To everyone applying to medical school, I encourage you to study this video. It helped me secure a place in my dream medical school :)

[@JjGabrielPianist]

congrats man ! wish me luck for my interview tomorrow :)

[@danielsevell5732]

@@JjGabrielPianist Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

[@Clairvoyantkel]

Would you say it’s easy to apply these points from the video to various ethical scenarios?

[@danielsevell5732]

@@Clairvoyantkel Definitely. If you structure your answers based on these theories, you'll be golden.

[@seharjabeen9632]

@@danielsevell5732 what's the most effective way to structure your answers? as you need to be concise due to the time limit

[@RilindTV]

I love the fact that there are no ads in your interview videos! Means I can sit down and productively engage with the video without any interruptions. Many thanks Ali !

[@kilikngo]

I absolutely love love your accent!! Warm, soothing, strong, confident, just all the good perfect combo of a perfect voice! Love the video! Help a ton!

[@SenthooranKath]

So clearly explained - such wonderful guidance Ali!! 😊😊

[@fozzy230788]

Charlotte's laugh actually completes me :)

[@SunandGold]

On my third MMI tomorrow, and still learning and growing with your videos- I feel like I’ve gone from an awful first interview to a medium one, and hopefully tomorrow will be even better thanks to you!

[@b_u9096]

Did you get in?

[@SunandGold]

@@b_u9096 Yes I did! Starting Semester 4 tomorrow!! Best of luck if you're applying!!!

[@b_u9096]

@@SunandGold well done!👏🏻 what uni was it?

[@sujata8957]

Got my interview in a few hours and this has really boosted my confidence,thank you!

[@sumsss23]

Dental applicant here not medicine. But i watched all of your videos as part of my preparation and I honestly feel like I would not have done as well and got into my dream university without the help and advice that you guys have offered. Thank you so much I absolutely love all your videos and wish you all the best in your career as a doctor.

[@sameepthakuri9550]

I am first year med-student and im still watching this video . QUALITY

[@lithabilemramba3952]

I am already in medical school and I was watching this video in preparation for a test, this has been so helpful❤️❤️

[@HassanPoyo]

Probably the hardest question at medical interviews

[@bryanm6080]

Gonna have lots of brownies after my interviews!

[@JjGabrielPianist]

did u get in ?

[@STaRzxEyEz]

Excellent work! Love the clarity and well-rounded ideas

[@halba6357]

Can't wait for the other medical ethics videos! They're so helpful, can't thank u enough ❤

[@twelveggirls9793]

Thank you so much!!! Was very useful for my medicine interview prep :) May God Bless You & your wonderful Friends.

[@user-pq8wo3wz6o]

I have written down nearly all the points mentioned afterward when you asked us to stop and think over the question by ourselves! And I love Charlotte's laughter!!! :D

[@crazysox305]

陈希汶 how did you do in your interviews?? ☺️☺️

[@chemseddinemounir]

i saw this video right before one of my interviews, they asked me a question about justice and how you can justify a niche treatment costing 1.7 million. i mentioned how if the treatment gave the child a life expectancy of 70-80 years with each year being a full 30k qualy that would amount to 2.4 million making it worthwile according to NICE. great video thank you

[@pwincezzetz]

Ali, this video is actually awesome! Thank you.

[@animmortalfan-girl604]

I really loved this video! I loved the amount of detail it went to - it was so well explained! The background music was very soothing

[@WardaM321]

Ali you're an absolute star for these videos

[@Daisy-rc8ko]

Hi, when you're answering the question should you structure it as the 4 pillars and say each one in your answer (like say 'in terms of beneficence...')? Or are you not supposed to say the names of the pillars & just use the ideas behind them? (I hope this makes sense)

[@Daisy-rc8ko]

Ali Abdaal Thank you! Your videos are so helpful 😊

[@UVRAwesomness]

I would like an answer to this too

[@jukebox2568]

What is the answer to this? :/

[@Tori-ur2rb]

I need this answer too

[@manta6963]

name dropping pillars is good and i think structuring your response using the pillars is quite good

[@annamartin6008]

I have to say this is bringing my anxiety right down about the MMI. Thank you very much!

[@zolisankabinde5613]

I love the quality of your videos. Awesome content. Shout out to you, all the way from South Africa.

[@zolisankabinde5613]

Ali Abdaal That is so awesome man. All the best with everything. Stay awesome.

[@pastmedicalhistory2523]

nailed it Doctor Ali, keep making such videos, i am medical student myself, applying for residency is US, but this video is apt for USMLE exam patterns too, gives me more motivation to make such videos !!

[@jamesheseltine2011]

Nobody is perfect, but he seems like such a legit, nice, friendly, humble guy.

[@Candy-sq3cu]

Ohhh I finally understand what I can answer for the justice aspect

[@sameepthakuri9550]

Probably the most useful channel for aspiring medics# subscribed. Keep up the good work bro.

[@SunandGold]

LOVE this entire channel!!! Wish I could study at Cambridge and meet you all!

[@myprettygirl91]

this was so helpful! I have my interview in 3 days

[@daveisaboss]

Thank you so much for doing this! Extremely clear and helpful, especially with my interview coming up in less than a week.

[@priscillaose5772]

Wow, this is so useful. Will be sharing this video

[@nadineli3849]

Charlotte, you are amazing

[@aidrousyusuf5735]

Honesly you educated me alot big thanks 👏

[@grand_slam_sam]

Wonderful! Love the outtakes as well :)

[@Med-hh9np]

If you had 2 patients that need a liver transplant and you had to choose one, what would you choose. Person one - A 30 year old that has damaged their liver by smoking and doing drugs, no family. Could keep smoking even after the transplant risking damaging the new liver. Person 2 - A 70 year old that has always been a very active part of the community, has lots of family, usually healthy.

[@nooralalawi6453]

how to answer this question ?

[@taniyan7322]

You would need to base your decision on clinical need only: who would benefit most from the liver transplant? Take extra care to never be judgemental when it comes to such questions. You are only allowed to discriminate regarding clinical need

[@isaacchua1852]

@@taniyan7322 That's a really good point. Most people would start judging the patient for their health choices, and i think that might be something interviewers would be looking out for, not wanting to train doctors that judge and have biases towards certain patients. I'll definitely keep this is mind if I ever make it to a medical interview! (I'm only 16 but trying to plan ahead to realize my dream)

[@mirandapiana9070]

Thank u for making this video- it's sooo useful :)

[@UnrealSYE]

Really helpful and nicely structured. Cheers guys

[@indianawesomeness]

Yes they were blokes...and I actually took a class under Professor Childress at UVA. Great professor and great experience learning about bioethics from one of the founders of the discipline!

[@kianalorete2359]

This video helped me to become a member of a NHS Foundation Trust’s medical ethics panel😄! Thank you!

[@fa9183]

What's that about ?

[@LilSwago]

Greatly appreciate the videos Ali! Keep em up :)

[@user-cc4yr3st8o]

i am so glad for coming across this video, you have mentioned a lot of points i would of never thought about considering, such as cost opportunity. you have made me rethink the significant ways i can apply the pillars of medicine to complicated scenarios like this. thank you!

[@NO-fh8wm]

I've always found this to be the most difficult and perturbing area of medicine in a sense that how do you weigh the right reasons in making a decision for the correct decision towards an ill person? With other fields, there is always a grey area or a lack thereof of the concept of morality and ethics and the other party are generally well and healthy so this code of conduct really plays a crucial part in understanding how to behave in the best way towards someone and do your job? Even in real life, our occupational stance runs outside of the workplace and I'd have to agree how you work also shows how you behave in real life. Thanks for the video.

[@NO-fh8wm]

Truly in the end if you know you're a good person - that's all that matters. Primum non nocere, first do no harm.

[@chrispapa2782]

Thank you 🙏🏻 please do more.

[@dollyongg]

thank you so much ali, molly and charlotte!!

[@yanilkarodriguez7335]

This was such a helpful video! Thank you!

[@danieldowns2084]

I'm not a medical student, but an ethical philosopher. I found this pretty helpful, although in a way quite disturbing. Idealism doesn't apply to constant triage with limited resources and realistic limitations

[@danieldowns2084]

Hmm not sure if it's the same here in the usa, but the pain waiting behind the justice framework takes a different sort of way to think than I'm capable of doing without a great loss of time which is sometimes absolutely key to helping anyone. They're kind of intersectional I'm gathering. Which makes the situation rather complicated and timed. Still wondering why I decided this would be a great thing to study

[@hannahiqbal8087]

Thank you!! You have great advice, I have a few combined degree program interviews coming up

[@estherruvengo4276]

Thank you so much, these are so helpful 😀

[@govinddhakal8838]

very much loved and appreciate you for making this video.... I just want to request u onething- could you upload a mock interview in this particular scenario !!

[@eleanor3453]

this is incredibly well explained and interesting, thank you so much :)

[@saheefaishaq6511]

Thanks for all the interview series Ali! Appreciate it🙋🏽‍♀️🙌🏼

[@sabahatfatima7225]

wonderful videos! Always to the point , really helpful.

[@zoyamufti833]

I am very late but this is one of the very good videos I needed for now

[@TropicsFever]

Thank you so much for this video as well as countless other videos you have. Bless you

[@arrieyati2012]

Thank you... Although I just found the video but it really helps me in understanding the 4 main ethnic in medical. I almost remembered it straight away. Thank you so much.... 😊 😊 😊

[@mkeane8184]

What about discussing further information you would consider eg patient history- is there some medical reason they are overweight that is out of their control? Have they seen nutritionists etc Also discussing the potential cost down the line of them not having the surgery eg needing heart surgery down the line due to high BMI

[@aidrousyusuf5735]

This is an amazing videos. Big thank you Ali and Your colleagues

[@fariba9671]

Really great and helpful video Ali!

[@jonetamo]

would you say it would make a better answer to name the principles by name, sort of acknowledging that you know there are the main ethical principles, or just talk about them organically and the interviewer will understand that you know them from that? thanks!

[@sallybakker6397]

absolutely great video! thanks!

[@shantamagarwal5873]

What would you do If there is a situation where a patient is a 10 years old girl. Her parents want to get her ovaries removed due to some religious belief but the girl is really scared about the procedure and does not want undertake the surgery because obviously she wants to have children in future. Now, the parents of the girl are forcing this decision because of the religious belief. What would you do as a doctor because as per the gillick competence act, a 10 year old child cannot give consent for a surgery assuming in this situation the girl was not able to pass the capability test. Would you undertake the surgery?

[@shantamagarwal5873]

So we always take the patients best interest into account in such situations? So what would we do in the case of a Jehovah's witness? Giving the patient a blood transfusion would be in the patient's best interest, but he/she refuses it because of their religious beliefs.

[@shantamagarwal5873]

Alright. Understood. Thank you so much Ali

[@djanitatiana]

In the uk the law would be involved and it would require permission from the court for the procedure to be performed. it's hard to envision an argument that would persuade the court that this was in the girl's interest.

[@jonetamo]

really helpful, engaging video - thank you!!!

[@jukebox2568]

So helpful, thanks guys! :)

[@niagay711]

Awesome video! Thank you!

[@armandyilinkou5803]

Awesome video Ali! Don't suppose anyone knows the name of the background piano song?

[@bohansun6423]

Hey Ali, I have my imperial interview in a couple weeks time. Just wondering the type of things you got asked at yours, thanks

[@marapopescu8379]

Super helpful!

[@DecentWorksMedia]

Great video! My one criticism is the volume of the music...

[@keyurgovender9508]

Thank you so much this video is amazing!!

[@jameshandysam]

Excellent video!! Thank you very much

[@etehdebbierowland9596]

Thank you very much.. Quite helpful.

[@djanitatiana]

Now do "Should we give a 15 year old biological girl with rapid onset gender dysphoria transition procedures including bilateral mastectomy and masculinising testosterone therapy potentially inducing permanent infertility". What would YOU do - give your honest opinion or the one demanded by activists motivated by politically correct ideology? And if YOU are the examiner which is the better answer to select a prospective doctor - one motivated by critical and sceptical enquiry and minimalist intervention or one who desires conformity with progressive ideology and fears censure and/or retributive backlash? Getting that in an ethics interview would put hairs on your chest.

[@mofeajegbomogun7016]

Hypothetically, if I got that question I would argue at 15 she doesn't have the mental capacity to make a decision like that, since 15-year-olds can't consent to sex at that age I don't think you should be able to consent to a double mastectomy. But then autonomy should be considered, future potential harm could be done to the patient even though we would be helping the patient's gender dysphoria with the surgery it wouldn't outweigh the non-maleficence. If I got that question I would freeze

[@HermitPurpled]

imagine being a TERF

[@mariarenke2899]

Great video! However, just after all Oxford med interviews have finished :(

[@Gorillarevolta]

Could you do a video on confidentiality, please? Hope you're final year is going well

[@Gorillarevolta]

thanks :)

[@Gorillarevolta]

Hey Ali, just to say I got an unconditional offer to study medicine (starting September '18). I want to thank you and your friends for putting together such great videos, I found them really helpful. Cheers

[@16Pabs]

Brilliant, thank you!

[@nooralalawi6453]

Hi Ali, I have my MMI interview in a couple weeks from now, just wondering how did you tackle your answer in a brief period? How did you actually answer this question to the interviewer?

[@nehalaomar8697]

excelent Ali .

[@sea5205]

Amazing videos!

[@koketsomohibidu4612]

im writing an ethics test introductory tomorrow thanks

[@tarankhangura1627]

Brilliant. There is nothing else to say.

[@vimeimar2259]

The video is really helpful. But please please why there is a piano music in the background? It triggers my neurological system. :( I literally put the video on mute and watching only the subtitles :/

[@jeneseJonEs]

Hi, Ali, can you make a video about topics and explain the steps to do medical research in Academic Foundation Year?

[@bamideleadeniyi2109]

Thank you so much quite helpful

[@charlesbrightman4237]

Medical Ethics questions: Learn the answers to give the testers, to pass the test, then do whatever you want to after the test. Why can't this be done in actual reality? And, is it done? And if laws are changed, what does that do to ethics? Who wrote these ethics questions anyway? If testers change, will ethics questions change also? If so, into what questions? Note: The singular ultimate answer to ALL questions in existence, including questions never even ever asked is: "It Does Not Ultimately Matter", or in today's vernacular: "IDNUM". (Note the following copy and pastes from my files): Consider the following: * There are 3 basic options for life itself, which reduce down to 2, which reduce down to only 1: a. We truly have some sort of actual conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. b. We die trying to truly have some sort of actual conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. c. We die not trying to truly have some sort of actual conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. * 3 reduced down to 2: a. We truly have some sort of actual conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. b. We don't. And note, two out of the three options above, we die. * 2 reduced down to 1: a. We truly have some sort of actual conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. b. We truly don't have any conscious existence throughout all of future eternity. (And note, these two appear to be mutually exclusive. Only one way would be really true.) And then ask yourself the following questions: 1. Ask yourself: How exactly do galaxies form? The current narrative is that matter, via gravity, attracts other matter. The electric universe model also includes universal plasma currents. 2. Ask yourself: How exactly do galaxies become spiral shaped in a cause and effect state of existence? At least one way would be orbital velocity of matter with at least gravity acting upon that matter, would cause a spiral shaped effect. The electric universe model also includes energy input into the galaxy, which spiral towards the galactic center, which then gets thrust out from the center, at about 90 degrees from the input. 3. Ask yourself: What does that mean for a solar system that exists in a spiral shaped galaxy? Most probably that solar system would be getting pulled toward the galactic gravitational center. 4. Ask yourself: What does that mean for species that exist on a planet, that exists in a solar system, that exists in a spiral shaped galaxy, in an apparent cause and effect state of existence? Most probably that if those species don't get off of that planet, and out of that solar system, and probably out of that galaxy too, (if it's even actually possible to do for various reasons), then they are all going to die one day from something and go extinct with probably no conscious entities left from that planet to care that they even ever existed at all in the first place, much less whatever they did and or didn't do with their time of existence. 5. Ask yourself: For those who might make it out of this galaxy, (here again, assuming it could actually be done for various reasons), where to go to next, how long to get there, how to safely land, and then, what's next? Hopefully they didn't land in another spiral shaped galaxy or a galaxy that would become spiral shaped one day, otherwise, they would have to galaxy hop through the universe to stay alive, otherwise, they still die one day from something with no conscious entities being left from the original planet to care they even ever existed at all in the first place, much less that they made it out of their own galaxy. They failed to consciously survive throughout all of future eternity. 6. Ask yourself: What exactly matters throughout all of future eternity and to whom does it exactly and eternally matter to? Either at least one species truly consciously survives throughout all of future eternity somehow, someway, somewhere, in some state of existence, even if only by a continuous succession of ever evolving species, for life itself to have continued meaning and purpose to, OR none do and life itself is all ultimately meaningless in the grandest scheme of things. Our true destiny currently appears to be: 1. We are ALL going to die one day from something. 2. We are ALL going to forget everything we ever knew and experienced. 3. We are ALL going to be forgotten one day in future eternity as if we never ever existed at all in the first place. Currently: Nature is our greatest ally in so far as Nature gives us life and a place to live it, AND Nature is also our greatest enemy that is going to take it all away. (OSICA) * (Note: This includes the rich, powerful, and those who believe in the right to life and the sanctity of human life. God does not actually exist and Nature is not biased other than as Nature. Nature does what Nature does in a cause and effect kind of way. Truth is still truth and reality is still reality, regardless of whatever we believe that reality to be. And denying future reality will not make future reality any less real in a cause and effect state of existence.) ** Hence also though, legalizing suicide (or at least make suicide not illegal) so as to let people leave this life on their own terms if they wish to do so. Many people and species are going to die in the 6th mass extinction event that has already started, at least some, horrible deaths. Many will wish they could die, and all will, eventually. And the 6th mass extinction event will not be the last mass extinction event for this Earth. But if suicide were legal (or at least not illegal), at least some people would not have the added guilt of breaking societies' law before doing so. Just trying to plan ahead here. Giving people an 'out' if they wish to take it.

[@HassanPoyo]

Hi Ali could you please post the quolly wiki page???

[@pringleprice5084]

Elite Cambridge humour - when Molly can't pronounce 'deontology'

[@iRiShKnIcKs2011]

Hi Ali, great video! Just a quick question, is patient autonomy still applicable to scenarios where the patient is demanding a procedure/treatment that was not offered to them by the doctor? If a doctor assess the situation and concludes that the treatment would cause more harm than good, can they refuse the patient that treatment option since it was not offered to them by the doctor in the first place? I would really appreciate a response, as my first interview is on Monday! Thank you.

[@iRiShKnIcKs2011]

Thank you! :)

[@sarahjamieson4732]

very interesting!

[@avikghosh5750]

Hi Ali, just wondering what does clinical need actually mean?

[@nehalaomar8697]

nice one Ali .

[@tyronebrontewhite2964]

Great video! What is the name of the background song?

[@RomajaneAbrenio]

Thank you!

[@kateclarke3226]

How would you answer ‘What would you do if you needed to perform an urgent procedure that you have been trained to do, but have never carried out before? No one else is available to do the procedure/supervise’.

[@kateclarke3226]

mia h Thank you so much that’s great, would you let the patient know that you haven’t done the procedure before to let them know all the risks or would this lose trust in doctor patient relationship?

[@kateclarke3226]

mia h that’s great, thank you so much!

[@shaikhaalnuaimi9193]

Tomorrow is my interview and I’m sooooo nervous:( I hope I do good and get accepted

[@anonymousbeing2418]

Ali did you get an offer from imperial?

[@allahtiltheveryend]

Well, he has just graduated from Cambridge University

[@jishnusaini]

Thanks!

[@hollyedsall9005]

What song is used in the background? I would like to use it for studying!!

[@idbekate]

Hi Ali! Not sure if you read comments from an old video but I'm hoping you will!! I'm a pre-med student from NZ having my MMI on November. When it comes MMI workshops here they also mention these 4 principles of medical ethics so in terms of preparing for the interview I find that NZ and UK interviews are very alike. But I have one question though - I get that opportunity cost is a good thing to mention under the 'justice' principle but I cant help but think that when a situation is presented to you, mentioning that sort of makes it seem like neglecting the patient presented in front of you (? if that makes sense?) because you're talking about what other things you can do with that money. IDK if I'm making any sense but do we mention opportunity cost just to show that we understand the complexity behind these situations and thats all?

[@OoiWeiRong16]

I think opportunity cost should be mentioned at the end of your answer? after you've talked about the patient.

[@idbekate]

Cesar Enrique Yes I am! I’m a grad though :) My interview is in 2 days and I’m freaking out!!

[@sukhchandankaur5832]

Kei ` good luckkkk I'm looking at doing biomed first yr next yr at au

[@idbekate]

Sukhchandan Kaur Thank you, and good luck for next year! You got this :) And even if you dont get in next year just remember it isn’t the end of the world and there are plenty of chances for you to apply again!

[@idbekate]

Cesar Enrique Good luck!! And sure, ask away! :) If you want to ask more private questions you could maybe pm me or we could talk on fb.