How to Be an Inclusive and Biblical Church with LGBTQ/SSA People: Evan Wickham

Рет қаралды 4,132

Күн бұрын

Evan Wickham is a worship leader, songwriter, speaker, and lead pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, CA, which he co-founded in 2017 with Sandy, his wife of 23 years (and their five kids).
In addition to helping people encounter Jesus through teaching and meaningful, rooted worship experiences, he has released four albums of worship songs, several of which are sung across the world. He holds an MDiv from Western Seminary and helped launch Searock Sessions, a cohort and growing community for hundreds of leaders seeking renewal in the Western church.
If you've enjoyed this content, please subscribe to my channel!
Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: / theologyintheraw
Or you can support me directly through Venmo: @Preston-Sprinkle-1
Visit my personal website: www.prestonsprinkle.com
For questions about faith, sexuality & gender: www.centerforfaith.com
My Facebook public page: Preston-Spri...
My Facebook private page: / preston.sprinkle.7
Twitter: @PrestonSprinkle
Instagram: preston.sprinkle

Пікірлер: 38

@m135b 6 ай бұрын

I was a deacon in a church that in 2010 sought to develop a policy with respect to inclusion of those in same-sex, monogamous partnerships into the community. We eventually adopted a policy, by vote of the congregation, to admit into membership those in same-sex relationships, but not to permit them to participate in roles of teaching or leadership. We were explicit that this decision was not an affirmation of same-sex relationships, but one of welcome into a community of broken people who needed the healing and forgiveness of Christ. While I supported the policy at the time and voted in favor of it, I was concerned that the policy lacked an explicit statement that we remained committed to biblical authority. After the vote, I wrote a letter to the other deacons expressing my concerns and proposed a way forward according to which we recognize two biblical trajectories. The first is the Creational Trajectory, that upholds the historic orthodox view of sexuality and marriage established in Eden. The second is the Eschatological Trajectory, that envisions the kingdom presence in the world that brings healing and reconciliation for those who have been marginalized and alienated by the religious mores of fundamentalist beliefs. As Christians, we need to hold these paradoxical ideas in tension, much as G.K Chesterton espouses in his book "Orthodoxy". A couple years after the vote, I was invited to share my thoughts with the entire congregation during a seminar presentation. Unfortunately, I found that the church did not seriously pursue a biblical reflection on the issue, and eventually they began moving to greater levels of inclusion. While we had left the church by this time for a variety of reasons, last year they voted to expand their inclusion to allow members in same-sex relationships fully into all leadership roles, including pastor, and that they would allow the pastoral staff to officiate same-sex weddings. I offer this reflection as a word of caution. I heartily support and endorse what Evan Wickham has to say, but stay firm to the Word! There is a treacherous pathway that leads from this point and you need to exercise great discipline to avoid wandering down it.

@USMC_Ministries 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. This is an important discussion. I believe ⁠it’s not just the activities that need not be affirmed. The temptations should not be affirmed either … if any be in Christ they are a new creation - old sinful lifestyle and temptations be gone to embrace the new. We do not affirm the temptation to commit adultery, we tell men and women with lust for other than their spouse to repent, we do not affirm the temptation to lie, steal, cheat or kill; we repent of those temptations. Homosexuals should constantly repent of any homosexual temptation, and that is the root of this “same-sex affirming” slippery slope that has played out with many mainline denominations over the past several decades.

@KRashad 6 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing your story! I think you’re spot on. One of things the Revoice Movement and it constituents never highlight is the attrition rate of those who slide from non-affirming to fully affirming. Your story shines the light on this sad reality.

@chaddonal4331 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for detailing your story! You illustrate the legitimate concern of a “slippery slope”. Once embracing them into membership, their “sin” has been affirmed. It seems that it is human nature to hold theological positions in our head when loved ones aren’t seemingly affected, and then change positions in our hearts when they conflict with people with whom we are relationally connected. It would seem that any step of inclusion or embrace for missional reasons needs as much continued emphasis on Scriptural clarity on prohibitions. We need to do the harder work of reclaiming a love for God’s holiness conjoined with a love for people with gender dysphoria; inviting them to “come and see” while holding out the hope of transformation through repentance and faithfulness. Or at least faithfulness through abstinence (as we all practice at various times and degrees).

@RaptureReadyPam 4 ай бұрын

Were you not already on a slippery slope when you allowed them into Church membership? Isn’t the Church supposed to be believers. Christ followers? Worshipers of Christ? Isn’t it enough to welcome all who want to attend to come? But, members? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@elizabethbillingsley5534 6 ай бұрын

I am working toward being a better listener and more patient with those who disagree with me.

@KRashad 6 ай бұрын

When Paul writes, “By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? (Rom. 6:2-3)” He’s speaking of identification with Christ. And primarily that salvation results in a new point of identification for the believer, thanks be to God. Our old worldly identification went under the water, or in the grave with Christ and did not come up again. How can I now be classified by that for which Christ died? How can I be identified by that for which Christ was nailed, beaten, stripped, mocked, abused, and forsaken? Paul says “By no means!” This chat is sad as it demonstrates the hold fictional diversity has gained over the church.

@d_ryosuke 2 ай бұрын

If before your salvation, you were a baseball player, and your entire identity was wrapped up in being a baseball player, that would be sinful, because your identity is in baseball instead of Christ. However, once you are saved, must you forsake baseball forever? No. Because you are now a Christian, you can be a Christian baseball player. Your worldly identities aren't destroyed when you become a Christian, as you claim. (This is basically the point from 24:00 )

@elizabethbillingsley5534 6 ай бұрын

Learning so much!

@chaddonal4331 5 ай бұрын

How can I find out about the CRock Pastor’s Network?

@westyso.cal.8842 6 ай бұрын

I would have liked to have heard Evan talk a little more about his days with Calvary Chapel. I grew up enjoying his parents music. Evan and his brother Phil are both very talented artists. Admittedly, I had a struggle understanding much of this discussion. It all feels very off.

@mrbigguy6905 6 ай бұрын

As a Christian who struggles with SSA, I would still have concerns about any believer who still wishes to identify with the LGBTQ community - even if they are celibate. As believers, we are called away from our former sinful life and to be transformed through the renewing of our mind. Our new identity is found in Jesus, not our sexuality. I humbly disagree with the identifier label of "Gay Christian" regardless of whether the person is sexually active or not. If you consider yourself Gay, that means you still support and affirm the activity on some level and expect the same from the church. But this can not be. The church can not bring wordly ideology and mindsets into the house of God. We are a holy and peculiar people - set apart for a purpose, the Bride of Christ, without spot or blemish. When we are born-again, old things are passed away and behold all things become new - this includes our sexuality. We are not to hold onto and identify with behaviors and lifestyles that are clearly in conflict with scripture. Also, if we use the term "Gay Christian" we are actually defeating the goal of inclusion and equality that we obtain through Jesus Christ. Why ? ... because we have voluntarily separated ourselves from the rest of the flock through the acceptance of a false identity, creating our own category and division from our brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not think this is what Jesus wants us to do. Now, there is nothing wrong with a Christian acknowledging that they struggle with SSA - there is NO sin in that; but to accept and identify as Gay is something that is clearly incompatible with scripture - and does not reflect the new life of a born-again believer.

@LIGHTBEARER4JESUS777 6 ай бұрын

Very well said.

@GraceOnly3 6 ай бұрын

This is the best response I have heard. Thanks - will think on this further.

@julielarsen6501 6 ай бұрын

Yes! You said it well. His guest said something about their “gay pastor.” We can’t put our old self “identities” before our identity in Christ. In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul gives a list of sins that followers of Christ once did…. But now they are washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of Jesus Christ. They are no longer bound by their sins! We wouldn’t say “I identify as a lustful Christian.” That sounds as if I’m clinging to the sin of lust instead of the freedom that’s found when I’m a new creation in Christ and I’ve repented of my sins.

@chaddonal4331 6 ай бұрын

So well stated! We need to resist pre-fixes that would sub-define us: Letcherous Christian, Greedy Christian, Arrogant Christian, Selfish Christian, Unrepentant Christian, Gay Christian, etc. We all have a proneness to sin in various ways. Jesus died for all of it. We are to reckon the sinful flesh as dead, cling to Christ, be remade in Him, and find our central identity to be “in Christ”. No Christian continues to be defined by their prior inclination to sin. We all need the Holy Spirit every day to mortify the flesh and live holy lives. No particular sin or sinful inclination gets a pass or special category.

@barbarafavela5610 3 ай бұрын

This is the best experience and explanation I have heard. If you still identify with the LGBTQ community, you are indeed separating yourself from the family of Christ. We all have thoughts and desires we should not have, but we don't allow them to separate us from the family of God.

@annettebaskerville1582 2 ай бұрын

could you refer me please to the verse that says Jesus is God-man.

@elizabethbillingsley5534 6 ай бұрын

Oh my gosh! That is what I want, to be loved for more than my physical body. And God's man will do that. Thank you for raising that point.

@EmWarEl 6 ай бұрын

It does strike me that this progression is the same as that of mainline denominations like the ELCA, who allowed clergy and congregants to identify as gay as long as they were not in romantic/sexual same-sex relationships (30 years ago or so?). I would like to better understand how there is any confidence that this is not just a rerun of that step towards affirming gay sexual relationships and marriage.

@Tobywojuola 6 ай бұрын

The church is opened to everyone. Gay or straight. But every church should stand on the grounds that even though everyone is welcome, they don’t affirm the LGBTQ activities. That line needs to be drawn. With the help of the spirit, trying to change their ideologies should follow. making them know that their true identity is in Christ, and not their sexuality

@USMC_Ministries 6 ай бұрын

@@Tobywojuolait’s not just the activities that need not be affirmed. The temptations should not be affirmed either … if any be in Christ they are a new creation - old sinful lifestyle and temptations be gone to embrace the new. We do not affirm the temptation to commit adultery, we tell men and women with lust for other than their spouse to repent, we do not affirm the temptation to lie, steal, cheat or kill; we repent of those temptations. Homosexuals should constantly repent of any homosexual temptation, and that is the root of this “same-sex affirming” slippery slope that has played out with many mainline denominations over the past several decades.

@elizabethbillingsley5534 6 ай бұрын

This guy gets it.

@allydidier791 6 ай бұрын

Hey Preston! I'm curious what you meant by the historic christian framework of sexuality and marriage - could you define that more specifically? Thanks!

@chrishirschy 6 ай бұрын

Your best bet to get this answered is to read his book on the topic. I do believe he’s working on a new book that is also related to this topic. Maybe he’ll respond in the comments, but I know he’s on the record many places defining his perspective on this topic.

@jameselgin1334 6 ай бұрын

He has a 2 part video series called Historically Christian view of marriage.

@allydidier791 6 ай бұрын

@@jameselgin1334 thank you i'll check it out

@suestephan3255 2 ай бұрын

If you folks are honest & have visited a few Evangelical churches the Pastor & people are not going to judge you on appearance because that is wrong and the pastor will preach what God says . We do a book study and have for forty years and we are in Romans we will in months to come finish the entire book. I can say as a Christian it is very compelling and for me the Holy Spirit pricks your heart to obey those words. I truly believe the LGBTQ Society DO NOT like what they hear and blame Christian that are loving toward them. God’s word does not change.

@elizabethbillingsley5534 6 ай бұрын

Can you have Gabe and Michelle on your podcast? Thank you! I think I bit your head off once Preston in the comments. I am sorry about that. I have been going through alot of healing and that came from pain. Thank you for reading this.