How to Be Happy, Reverse Bucket Lists, The Four False Idols, and More - Arthur C. Brooks

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Resources from this episode: tim.blog/2023/09/11/arthur-c-...
Build the Life You Want: www.amazon.com/Build-Life-You...
Arthur C. Brooks (@arthurbrooks) is the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Public and Nonprofit Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and Professor of Management Practice at the Harvard Business School, where he teaches courses on leadership and happiness. He is also a columnist at The Atlantic, where he writes the popular “How to Build a Life” column. Brooks is the author of 13 books, including the 2022 #1 New York Times bestseller From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life and his newest Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier with co-author Oprah Winfrey. He speaks to audiences all around the world about human happiness and works to raise well-being within private companies, universities, public agencies, and community organizations.
Please enjoy!
[00:00] Intro
[00:45] The reverse bucket list.
[06:55] Intention without attachment.
[08:48] Writing Thích Nhất Hạnh’s obituary.
[11:35] Buddhist views through a Catholic lens.
[14:52] Blood occlusion training and physical fitness over 40.
[18:42] Arthur’s semi-mystical teenage experiences in Mexico.
[25:10] Arthur’s academic dad on complex vs. complicated.
[28:25] Happiness hygiene for genetically baseline gloominess.
[31:08] Happiness and unhappiness: hand in hand.
[34:22] Being effective with one’s affects.
[37:53] The three macronutrients of happiness.
[45:21] Identifying (and learning to live with) our idols.
[58:02] Secularly securing transcendent perspective.
[1:04:50] Money doesn’t buy happiness - it lowers unhappiness.
[1:09:46] Tithing and adoption.
[1:13:23] How Arthur and his wife met, and how their values aligned over time.
[1:20:39] Advice for seeking love in the modern world.
[1:28:17] Death meditation.
[1:38:33] Finding personal purpose and meaning.
[1:53:06] Four fundamental micronutrients of happiness.
[1:56:11] Translating a need for change into action.
[2:03:41] Aristotle’s secrets to happiness.
[2:08:31] Real friends help us put the kibosh on self-deception.
[2:16:08] Reflecting on the repercussions of living for the mirror’s approval.
[2:19:49] Collaborating with Oprah on Build the Life You Want.
[2:25:21] The point Arthur hopes people don’t miss in Build the Life You Want.
[2:29:09] Reading recommendation: The Noonday Demon.
[2:30:46] Exposure therapy: making pain part of one’s medicine.
[2:35:49] A practical way to be grateful for life’s bad things.
[2:38:54] Parting thoughts.
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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[@timferriss]

Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account wealthfront.com/tim Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating eightsleep.com/Tim and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement drinkag1.com/tim

[@Beccanator007]

Thanks Tim! I’ve been wanting to start up a HYSA and now I’m gonna use your recommendation. GREAT PODCAST! Took me a few sessions to get through it all as usual, but GREAT stuff in here and wonderful reminders. ❤ Also, you’re a total catch don’t stress it, keep putting yourself out there and know that you’re worthy of love. You’ll find it- I’m sure of it. I’d date you in a heartbeat but I’m already in a relationship and don’t think you’re polyamorous. 😂. Also, thanks for mentioning that you’re *not* a fan of the fake-ass lips and bullshit SO MANY women, even young women seem to be into. I’m a 41 y.o. female and don’t like it at all, never have- and want to love my aging looks without feeling pressured to “fill” in anything, so thanks for that. Honestly I think there’s a very small percentage of men that actually prefer the hyper enhanced/fake: boobs, lips, whatever. It’s just freaky- so thank you for appreciating true beauty. Don’t be shy about speaking up about that stuff because WE ARE LISTENING. Men and women alike listen to you and your opinions matter.

[@EveningTV]

I just can't buy into the idea that you should never do something that gives you pleasure when you are alone. If everyone followed this advice there would be no great artists or athletes, no awesome achievements. Masterpieces don't happen at parties. Great books, poems, songs are not written when we are hanging out with friends. We need make time to hear the still small voice within that some call the muse. Obviously people and shared memories are also important, but I believe that quiet time alone is necessary and for introverts and artists it is critical .

[@jasperjudd]

I love the pleasure of taking a bubble bath and just relaxing into the warm water. That wonderful experience is virtually impossible to have when you aren’t alone. Also, on a more intimate level, self pleasure has helped me a lot in getting over past trauma and feeling more comfortable in my own body. As a result, I became more comfortable with experiencing both pleasure and intimacy with partners. I highly doubt he was considering any nuances when he came up with (or adopted) that opinion, so it probably sounded very profound to him at the time, but realistically it’s not very bright at all

[@cherylh4688]

​​@@jasperjudd Thank you, Jasper, for that intimate sharing. Not having as much courage, I was going to try to make a joke out of my own experience with that - something about that type of alone time giving me my only experiences of release, lol - but it really isn't a joke, and you expressed it beautifully.😍🤗

[@cherylh4688]

I totally agree with you, and am really impressed with how eloquently you explained it! 😍 In fact, the only thing I would add is that most of the time, that quiet time set aside to "hear the still small voice within" is extremely pleasurable in and of itself. In fact, I love those moments when I am just sitting and flowing with feelings of deep connection or sometime even "oneness" with what I just call my "Spirit." Those are some of the most memorable, most beautiful, and definitely most pleasurable times in my life. And altho' not impossible - I felt it first at a meditation course among many other meditators - it is still, indeed, much easier to experience when alone. Anyway, thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth and then expressing them so much more eloquently than I probably could have.😉🤗

[@jasperjudd]

@@cherylh4688​​⁠​⁠I watched another video earlier today titled “why finding purpose is so hard today” by the channel “HealthygamerGG” that talked about how important alone time is and how connecting with your inner self (through alone time) is the key to finding your purpose in life. I really enjoyed listening to it and found it very insightful! I’d definitely recommend it if you’re interested!

[@jasperjudd]

Also I can’t help but question his use of the word pleasure. By Oxford dictionary, the first definition is “a feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment.” Given that he says it’s one of the idols that keep you from happiness, and that you need to make sure “you’re getting enjoyment, not pleasure.” I think he’s using the word to imply self gratification, particularly in an over indulging way that borders on addiction. Using it like that, instead of using a better word or further clarifying, kinda gives the wrong message on the whole thing. I mean, the first dictionary definition actually contradicts everything he says about pleasure.

[@lynndenault4212]

Reading alone is pleasure.

[@michellegrantvaughn1561]

I think this is my favorite podcast conversation ever.

[@Mikey_Anthony]

At the least of recent time, same here. This was a gem.

[@vivitaq]

Feeling the same here.

[@doriannemosich232]

I conquer!

[@moniquemichelle7295]

“Intention is fine, but attachment is bad”. Perfect.

[@richardmachokolo1888]

Thank you Tim and Arthur. After listening to this, I think I am on the right path to living

[@gemmegroup]

Tim, I have been listening to your shows for almost a decade. I wanted to thank you so much for the amazing gifts you give us in each episode. This one was especially impactful. Thank you so much!

[@OckyAsFUCK]

Tim is the greatest interviewer ever!

[@edmccullough7636]

He’s making my head hurt. He’s just trying so hard. Can’t he just stop for a minute? Thanks. Love you guys 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻

[@guest4888]

Arthur Brooks and Tim Ferris! The world was waiting for this conversation 🎉🎯🙌

[@dorothysay8327]

I. Love. This. GUY!!!! Thank you, thank you for doing this interview. I’m now going to devour everything this guy has written, and all his interviews.

[@maggyhanrahan]

Amaßàng pòdçaßt thank yòù.Tim Ferris

[@maggyhanrahan]

I am alive love this guy

[@jdt8983]

I achieved certain goals I didn't think I could and did so around 5 years ago. Then I delved into neurotic perfectionism and moved the finish line further....but I started to continuously botch things and burn out. There's this point where it actually makes sense to ditch a goal because you aren't that person anymore. We tend to drag ourselves around with awkward and strict identities that make us miserable. Fuck all that noise

[@ssb26]

Wonderful podcast. For me the big takeaway - make depression part of you, learn from it and evolve with that pain. That's a beautiful lesson!

[@latishalea]

Two things so far as I listen/watch this episode: 1st- I used to play the French Horn. 2nd- I do everything alone. Ok, almost everything. I recently went on a trip to Toronto, by myself. I go to restaurants, concerts, lectures, vacations, the gym, coffee shops...ect., ect. I have friends whom I invite and whom I've made great memories with, but rarely does anyone participate with me in the things I decide to do. I mention Toronto because it was pointed out numerous times and became extremely visible to me on this specific trip how this is true and I never really thought anything of it up until this point. I started to actually look for people around the city who were by themselves and I found none. There were couples, and groups, and people with their pets, and if I did happen to stumble upon someone who appeared to have no one else with them, they had buds in their ears and they were talking to another on the phone... Maybe I'm sharing people and memories with everyone around me but no one in particular. Absolutely I would love to share experiences with someone/people. But if that was a stipulation to having these experiences there's so much I would have and would be missing out on. Again, I haven't thought much of this until now, and although I know this isn't true, it makes me consider if I am alone in being alone.

[@knaz7468]

You are not alone in being alone and doing lots and lots of things and generating memories regardless.

[@maviswashere]

I went to a treetop walk and zipline yesterday and I seemed to be the only person on my own there. I am the same in that if I had to wait for someone else in my friend and family groups who want to do the same thing I would not do anywhere near as many things that I want to do. :)

[@highpointcreditadvisors5869]

The answers to Carlos questions brought uncontrollable waterworks! 😭 This might be one of the most thought provoking interviews, ever.

[@Monas99]

this is my favorite podcast ever- thank you Tim for sharing with us so much wisdom from your guests. We need more podcasts/conversations like these that are truly meaningful for people's lives- we all need to learn more how to be happier- the whole world would benefit so, thank you! ❤

[@susanmarie2231]

Happiness = Peace of Mind. I did not figure this out until later in life.

[@panda59043]

You’re very down to earth for a highly intelligent man!

[@coal.sparks]

Whoa. I was having trouble trying to decide which idol was applicable to me, but Tim's comment about pleasure as an antidote to depression? Ding ding ding! Light bulb moment. It's those moments that keep me coming back to these podcasts. Thanks Tim for being so open about your own struggles. It does help to know there's other folks in the darkness too.

[@Rithmy]

It really depends on what caused the depression. If its a hormonal imbalance then sure i can see the it making sense. But if its a "crisis" in the form of lack of meaning then pleasure wont help at unless its a meaningfull thing. Then meaning is the antidote.

[@benascg-ll7sq]

Sounds like brothers in arms....your comment resonates soooo much. Gratitude. Bravery loves company

[@caterinaguarino7757]

Depression is so misunderstood. In most cases its a little of both . At least it has been with me.@@Rithmy

[@EricMHowardII-yh1rn]

Happiness Improvement Project Selection True happiness is an active choice for life . Which takes Seventy to Eighty years . - Psalms 90:10,12

[@latishalea]

"Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to such a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love." "Above all, avoid falsehood, every kind of falsehood, especially falseness to yourself." Two excerpts from: The Brothers Karamazov by Fydor Dostoyevsky

[@kongkongball1]

One of the best podcasts on happiness I watched.

[@cinthyaverasteguieffel8896]

..THANK YOU SOO MUCH TIM 🙂😊😌

[@evagibson8404]

Love the conversation, it feels effortless and covering a wide variety of topics.

[@fc-qr1cy]

i repeat your comment.

[@micheleegerton9430]

Tim I have to thank you once again for your fearless show of vulnerability! It won me over as an avid listener/reader of your content years ago & it still impressed me today listening to this podcast. Being 45, single & without children, I completely resonated with your comments regarding your frustrations being recently single. The questions you posed would have been my own & I realized your position of fame adds an entire different Pandora’s Box to that equation. Online dating sucks, but I can’t imagine being famous & trying to navigate that arena!!! Sending good vibes & wishing you the best you deserve while fishing in what I call “the septic tank of singledom after 40”. Thank you again for being open to discussing the conundrum of being able to create whatever we want in life, but still struggling to find someone to share it with!

[@Mihanik0]

Thank you Tim. You’ve been nailing it with these recent episodes in my opinion. Both in terms of guests and the content itself. Keep it up!

[@Andrew-lp6sl]

Excellent podcast, Christianity has produced people and works of great intellectual firepower. Real sort of crossroads is via intellect or Spirit. His son going on a life quest so early displays character and curiosity we all can take that lesson.⁹

[@HappyCat1111]

Great convo! I really enjoyed listening to you two.

[@juvandi]

This was great Tim! Thanks!

[@AdrianaUrdanetaBorges]

"Pleasure alone, without memory, is a problem" Thanks 🙏

[@user-eq9up7pf8c]

Marvelous! Sad that it ended! I could hear for life ❤ Thanks!

[@fabiorochatavora]

"...More friends, more empathy, more curiosity will get me there" I wish we could save these quotes on readwise. Thanks for the wonderful pieces of wisdom.

[@kayericwinkler]

Great guest and great talk. Thank you very much! I will have to watch this again to take it all in.

[@fc-qr1cy]

great conversation I had to save this to watch again and probably several times.

[@christine_Bru]

Fantastic episode. I loved the frameworks he explained

[@keenalou595]

I'm glad he mentioned nature and star gazing as a way to experience awe moments daily. I've never felt so small yet so comforted.

[@olegkalinkin6877]

"I don't know what's going to happen in my future. But I do know I am alive this day and I am deeply grateful for everything that happens, for good and for bad."

[@chardibinx]

You are special, wonderful and alive.

[@A.I.-]

30:00 Sometimes you don't have to fight for life and just appreciate/gratitude of what you have been given. Life is that complex that things are already set in stone. Every atom is in its position/spacing are deliberate and not random.

[@margaritajohns7907]

Thanks Tim for this great interview. Wisdom and knowledge with out love is the key of tru success not the one you idle is rather the road to the path lives it selfs the every smile tier on the road the hand tended to the heart in luck of …. Abundance is what God provides for us all to give and Be selfed Blessed in Jesus who truly Lives in Spirit for all of us⭐️❤️🙏🕊💝

[@rorystruthers]

Hi Carlos! Your dad is fantastic, and you have great taste being a fan of Tim. Both of these men are just brilliant. And thank you for your service too. 🫡

[@gardencali-arkansasstyle6995]

Good chemistry between you two, the conversation flows. Lot of good insightful information. Thank you❤️

[@jessicahala2750]

Wow it’s so easy and awakening to listen to this guy. A great listen during traffic.

[@barbarajean7208]

This took Forever to listen to; I stopped to replay and jot down the gems from this discussion! Thank you, both.

[@cherylnathanodette]

A compelling episode and thoroughly enjoyed the riveting yarn regarding the reverse bucket list. Thanks for keeping it light.

[@gringoenespanol]

Personally I love solitude.

[@anniehertz]

BEST OF THE BEST!!! Gratitude brothah! ♥️💡🙏🏻🎁👋🏼👋🏼👋🏼

[@rafaelagontijolenz4135]

Best episode guys!

[@CFF2024]

I am here because I listened to the podcast and so into his sharings and I want to see him better. Such an inspiring story!❤

[@OODanKishere]

I just wanted to say thanks as well! I really dig your content! You're freaking funny too, man! Helps to break up the "nerding out" with a little humor in there, but you don't over do it. Keep it up!

[@hipass]

Amazing episode

[@KrystaUndertaker]

I've never been a huge fan of podcasts due to having a low sound threshold for each day. This conversation was absolutely beautiful and I just wanted it to keep going. It was incredibly informative and vulnerable. Thank you for the practical tips and reading suggestions that spanned so many different subjects :).

[@shan504]

Love this convo

[@Linusrox123]

I loved and Shared like crazy the Tom Billeu interview, but now I really want the world to hear this one too.

[@patrickvanmeter2922]

Regime change is need in the US and Israel.

[@sherrylynch1202]

Love this podcast, and the guest has definitely done his homework! Very thought-provoking content. I do have a problem with the question -- what would you die for? Does anyone else feel the same way?

[@cathyweiss5347]

I will die for my faith in God.

[@LisaDKN]

Yes. I loved it. I would not die for my country or religion. Those are, as Tim said, too often manipulations by those in power to gain more power or territory. I would die for defense of our freedom, to protect my son, family, an innocent child... ❤

[@sherrylynch1202]

@@LisaDKN I am lucky enough to have grown up in the USA. If our country were to be invaded, I would then have to fight for my own life, and the lives of others. I never think that way, so it doesn't occur to me to examine that belief. Yes, I suppose that I would die for the safety of my loved ones.

[@Mikey_Anthony]

Thank you both. Learned a lot on this one. 🙏

[@petervakulich1120]

Thanks for a great discussion, very informative, great insight and fun to listen to.

[@lisayoung9507]

Tim may the universe bring you your person!

[@BLUEGENE13]

Right off the bat he's explaining and preaching, I just can't

[@marcelhall1632]

Needed to HEAR this this year. Thanks guys.

[@RugilePenno-ly8jh]

Thank you Tim and Arthur ;-)

[@tradingpoker1324]

45 min in and really enjoying it.

[@tradingpoker1324]

Excellent, thank you both.

[@hopelessatusernames]

Thanks for this, seriously.

[@alisondblake]

I 💘 TIM FERRISS

[@harrison3081]

Someone help me think through this please: How do I build a life that I am proud of while simultaneously wanting less?

[@MindfulExplorations-op7bg]

"Thank you for the sharing. It's so inspiring. 🙏👍"

[@regjones9519]

Obviously love the content and your never ending authenticity Tim- and just to say I really like the aesthetic of the interview room visual/background etc, cant describe why as I dont have a creative/design eye but pleasure to view as the conversation unfolds

[@user-eq9up7pf8c]

Absolutely brilliant! ❤

[@alikiani1849]

Why do you say you’re not funny enough @42:40 this has been one of the most educational and entertaining podcast that I’ve listened to in a long time, love the work Tim & ACB

[@alikiani1849]

@1:04:30

[@kandicesmith2841]

Thank you both

[@dnyaneshwarishinde1058]

great conversation...thank🙏 you

[@bdflavors1347]

very helpful from both of you!

[@myaalberto2959]

Amazing podcast!!!

[@padmasaivaranasi5468]

Loved this episode, learnt a lot!!!

[@goodnatureart]

Arthur Brooks is walking his talk. This guy has changed more politically and spiritually than most public teachers I've followed. I'm not sure he's a socialist democrat like me but he understands and teaches loving kindness. I just do not understand what you need a God to say all of this stuff on being happier, creating a meaningful life and looking fear of death in life. Maybe he'll drop God in his 60's. Brooks refers to Buddhists who have no God in their world view. Just us. Being outside first thing in the day is awesome way to getting perspective. I'd add send a meditation to trees you walk by. It is a great double play sending out reconnections of gratitude to Mother Earth for life and you benefit for sending and receiving gratitude. The one thing that is missing? Not one mention about racial class warfare in this country, which next to our never talking about war we invest a trillion dollars a year in are the root of a lot of people suffering.

[@gitgen1887]

Silence is the goal.

[@AndreaPerry3]

Great one!

[@keenalou595]

"Let something take you to a deeper place" How interesting.

[@gitgen1887]

The abyss has no answers

[@melindavega1234]

Wonderful conversation! I'm such a fan of both Tim and Arthur 🙌 Oh, and Tim, if you're up for it - I'm available for a date! 😉

[@benascg-ll7sq]

Tim, brilliant again. Gratitude. When do you have coach Bob Bowman on your show?

[@joshKozak]

Thanks for this!

[@rasavastakaite4752]

thank you, great thoughts

[@Sandra9135]

Great talk! TY😊

[@dahVEEDBBone]

A French Horn player and a graduate of T. Edison State College. Me too on both!

[@homquist]

I listened to the audio version and it sounds like Tim Ferriss interviewing Tim Ferriss.

[@OnekamaProducts]

Great interview Tim Timm Timmy

[@CM-ge9pz]

Best episode

[@alichebry]

Brilliant 🙏

[@bdflavors1347]

love at first sight does exist,, I met my wife in 1992 and have never left her side.....

[@josephinefahey9308]

100% fantastic!

[@letalucy644]

Fantastic content

[@160p2GHz]

For secular folks, Carl Sagan's writings and tv can also do that. He talked a lot about how small we are and awe for the universe but also feeling like you belong, you are part of it. I mean astronomy in general--real astronomy science not astrology--but Sagan had a really approachable way to introduce those ideas and still talk about the value of being part of humanity.

[@boob72]

Tim and Arthur have very similar voices. Hard to tell who is who if you are just listening😅

[@user-lt5ph5hk2c]

Hi Tim! Thank you very much for all the interesting talks! I love listening to them. Maybe I just don't see it... I would love to get some more information about the books and theories which are mentioned during your podcasts. Is it possible to write a little extract mentioning that and maybe some short bio about the person you are talking to? please excuse if my request is not written in a perfect way. I am Swiss and English is not my mother language :-) Looking forward to your answer!

[@Linusrox123]

Just one of the best interviews EVVVHERRR! I am curious: Would anyone happen to have a link to the Rosary plan (for lack of a better term) he says will help after X weeks? As a lapsed Catholic and skeptical agnostic I guess, I would love to have hear him talk ion detail/specifics. THANK YOU!

[@schuschumusica]

I haven’t scrolled through the comments but I’m pretty sure there must be some dating proposals for Tim here. If not oh boy I certainly do!

[@garryjohalcomedy]

I still don't get what the reverse bucket list is? Is it a list of things you've already achieved or is it a list of your desires and then you start subtracting them?

[@eatingcleaner]

The idea is to neutralize your wants by ‘detaching’ from them and ultimately, you have fewer wants and more haves. I personally don’t find ‘crossing out’ to be a big neutralizer, however.

[@CryptoC4T]

The value in the "why are you alive" question is interesting in contrast to before mentioned death being "no big tragedy".

[@fc-qr1cy]

1:10:10 AMEN more joy comes to my soul from actions such as these you get a bigger buzz than any drug can provide.

[@peggyon1]

I just watched this and have never seen Tim so relaxed and humerous. The guest feels very Jewish--funny. I'm surprised he's Catholic