How To Beat Slicers!

[@briankronberg]

I find that the slicer will then adjust their play and slice short returns if they see you go back behind the baseline. My strategy against slicers is to hit a heavy topspin, deep ball to the center of the court but to their backhand (usually their common slice). This pushes them back, cuts off their angles (which they usually love), and forces them to usually hit a shorter ball. I use that time to start moving into the net. The important part here is not to try and hit a winner, just an approach shot that gets them moving laterally (preferably to their side they slice from the most). Having them moving laterally forces a weaker return and usually gives me an easy volley to put away. This strategy is VERY disrupting to a slicing player as their typical best shot turns into their weakest shot and forces them to leave their comfort zone and hit lower probability shots instead.

[@EssentialTennis]

All depends on the skill level of your opponent. But glad you're thinking of other strategies Brian!

[@briankronberg]

@@EssentialTennis True, I just had a match on Monday night that was very similar to this. I struggled in the first set until I learned how to exploit his slice. After that my opponent started making the errors because he could no longer play his slice game.

[@JanChodura68]

Yes, I have the same strategy. The key for beating his slice bh was to learn heavy topspin. Then he is struggled with his weapon because to make slice from heavy topspin produces more errors and easy balls for me. Of course you need to force to go to the net.

[@zuberul101]

Good strategy! Thanks. This is helpful for my current level, and having a plan to deal with slices

[@joemarshall4226]

Very good. I'm a slicer, and you're the kind of player I had trouble with in tournaments. If you could get that high topspin deep to my backhand, I couldn't do much with it, and would just try to float it back to you deep, leaving me vulnerable to a swinging volley. I have since practiced a two handed shot to try and neutralize those kinds of balls, but I still don't like them. If you can follow them up with good volleys, or well-disguised topspin approaches off my short balls, I am going ot have a bad day. The harder and flatter you hit the ball, the more us slicers like it...We just re-direct your ball into the open court and turn your speed into spin, with very little effort.

[@Shaunsweeney-Kubach71]

I am happy you posted this video about Ben’s slice, everyone was calling Ben a pusher, but I have been around tennis since I was about 12 years old, and I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and most people that was playing around those times, were using slices on both sides and they were tough to beat. It takes a lot of patience and adjustments to beat a person who plays with all 3 types of slices, and most people watching these videos can see how Ben is hitting the ball. Ty for posting this video my friend.

[@henriquegiacomeli4285]

What could I do against an opponent who alternate down the line slice and drop shot a lot !? Any tip? Pretty nice video! Thanks

[@timefly4221]

As an older player who has lost a step or two, I find court positioning against slicers to be tricky. Good slicers can float it deep or leave it low and short with the same take-back, making anticipation difficult. They tend to move you as much north-to-south as side-to-side, and many players are weaker in terms of movement and accuracy when having to change depth constantly.

[@joemarshall4226]

Very true. I'm a slicer, and it's part of the strategy to slice you short on one side, then long on the other. Also, there is a reason why the return of server came inside the baseline when he returned a soft shot down the middle in the first point. The returner was worried about the drop shot....it's much tougher to read a drop shot form a slicer than from a topspin player, because they both have the same swing. Some players can't do much with short slices, others have trouble with deep slices....that's one of the benefits of slice....if it goes long, it's a good shot, if it goes short, it's often even a better shot.

[@CaocaoXI]

So true

[@opencurtin]

Lazy feet is a big issue with the recreational player thats why most stay at a certain level mostly down to a lack of coaching .

[@waynelai354]

As someone who slices on forehand and backhand on 3/4 of my shots, the best counter to slice is to play slices yourself. I have the hardest time playing a slice vs. a defensive slice that does not come up high enough for me to meet at chest height and does not have the forward momentum into my strings as a regular shot. A person who specializes in slices will want to get chest height balls to slice "down" into the other court as deep as the back corner or as short as the service box corner with either vertical slice or side slice. The deep slice in the video isn't the most dangerous; most decent players can get to it if I hit that with no setup. The softer slice that curves 30 degrees and lands near the service box then arcs into the doubles alley not only pulls the opponent in but also off to the side and is the most dangerous slice because it puts the opponent in the worst possible position for the next shot. A good slice specialist should also drop shot a lot as the motion for an offensive slice is the same as for a drop shot so once you are inside the baseline and the opponent is displaced, they can't read when you do the drop shot.

[@Prof.Aguirre]

Hi Ian, I am enjoying reading your book. In Chap 4 when speaking on slices you mention that slices are good because one might induce the opponent to overhit. I tried to find a video on overhiting. What do you mean by that? Can you please point to a video where you address this issue? Thank you.

[@nordattack]

At a more advanced level, the good slice players I know do not dink the ball back like that guy was doing over there, they put a deep, low, pace filled slice on their shots and have amazing accuracy making it very hard to play a power game against them. How do you go against that?

[@thomasmedeiros5722]

This is a great video because it demonstrates the importance of proper footwork. As an old high school tennis coach I constantly tell my players that if your feet don’t get you in position you’re already at a disadvantage. Good strokes start with good footwork and body movements. I would suggest footwork and multiple ball drills for your student. You got to do the drills to build the skills. You should do a follow up video to show how you coach and drill him to improve his footwork.

[@Sam-cd7dl]

Excellent excellent information

[@whatsfordinner1695]

I often meet opponents like this, especially the older generation. They don't beat you with pace. But they can control the slice very good. And it's not just the deep slice, they will drop it short too on different angles. You end up seemingly covering so much distance more than them and then your judgement becomes bad because you're tired. If you try to rush the net, they will just lob you. So how do you beat that?

[@evanuel23]

I had a league match like this recently. Very unorthodox, but a great player that had mastered this play style. I struggled in a close first set, but I eventually started serving and volleying, telling myself to dictate the point by getting to the net, and play my game.

[@EssentialTennis]

Great strategy change! Glad it worked out!

[@tad1980]

A lot of these are high loopy slices - any thoughts on the low slice skidders? Those are soooo difficult

[@thomasmedeiros5722]

You have made a very good observation that is often overlooked. Being able to consistently change the spin, placement, depth and hight of the bounce is a valuable skill. As an old high school tennis coach coach I teach this tactic. So many players are all just trying to hit with lots of pace and don’t think about the other skills. As a long time clay court player I learned to top it, drive it, drop it , slice it low or wide to the side and drive them crazy by changing the net clearance and pace. It’s about keeping them out of their comfort zone while staying in your own. You got to practice the way you want to play and do drills to build the skills.

[@ap7498]

Nice video! Starts with having the right intention. Your player reacted aggressively (court position wise) to a neutral to average return of serve. If the opponent is is consistently pinning our player back with slower deep balls (slice or topspin), he or she needs to play an aggressive higher/heavier ball to get next shot out of opponent’s strike zone. Slice will become more attackable either short or soft. Our player’s footwork will correspond with the ball we send our opponent. If advantage, looking to move forward. If neutral, “home base” and if defensive, back up diagonally. Thanks for the video!

[@ananta7556]

My problem is my grinder/slicer nemesis also has a great drop shot too so it's tough to find that balance of where to place my "home base" should be.

[@beaubleuliving]

Great video Ian. I'd like to send you video of my stroke. Do you have a recommendation for how to secure my GoPro to the fence? Much appreciated!

[@-Munditimum-]

Loving the Tennis Detective Series. More please! I remember this in the live coaching series. At first seeing this my thought was that the opponent was unpredictable (to the player) and would land many of the balls short as well as long, and that was why he was taking an aggressive position inside the court. It looks like that wasn't the case and possibly he didn't realize his positioning. Thanks to ET and Ian once again. Cheers! MM

[@EssentialTennis]

Much more coming Mund, I enjoy these videos as well!

[@-Munditimum-]

@@EssentialTennis Looking forward to it!

[@EndoftheTownProductions]

At 0:47, he should hit a heavy topspin FH (or he might hit a heavy slice FH) to his opponent's BH.

[@ItMaker5000XL]

Even when he does split, the split step timing could probably use some work. In the first point he split very early and got stuck - very late movement to the ball. Our boy over at 2MinuteTennis has good videos on this and it comes down to being in the air when the opponent hits the ball. Nice video!

[@EssentialTennis]

Thanks for watching!

[@dominikstrobl5403]

Couldnt find videos from 2mtennis? Could you send me link pls?

[@wolpetto]

If you play a lot on clay and in carpet, you are used to unorthodox players that slice, chip and put sidespin on the ball a lot. The main problem is that these kind of players try to force you to play their game. The positioning well inside the baseline usually comes from 2 factors. People who slice a lot usually play a lot of short balls and their opponents are afraid to make certain shots(approach shots, volleys, overheads, etc...). Usually "slicers" find that out and force their opponents to play on their terms. Other factors are footwork, technique or fitness. In my experience these strategies are not wrong but the player receiving the advice must have the weapons and be well inside his comfort zone, otherwise it will backfire...

[@jasontaylor5713]

Ian... on the second example of the student serve and volleying... One thing that I have noticed when playing against slicers... is that the back spin on the sliced ball tends to roll down the strings on my flat volleys... and causes me to hit the ball lower than that of a driven top spin shot...and I frequently hit the tape of the net on flat volleys that feel like they should be easy...almost like volleying against a slicer takes a good bit more effort... or maybe I'm just programmed to volley against top spin and flat shots and volleying a slice is a little different? I find this as a pattern in my game while volleying against slicers... I've started to not use block volleys or flat volleys when closing on a sliced shot... and have better control when I put a slight amount of my own back spin on the ball for my volleys... that and I try and get even lower than normal in my knees on my volleys against slices... I tend to have good success against this kind of opponent... by taking 2 steps in after my serve ... and not trying to be fast with those 2 steps... but save my speed burst for my pursuit after my split step ... I call it a serve and attack... instead of serve and volley... but I get lots of volleys from doing this... also... when I do this... I serve up the middle and switch to a backhand grip right out of my serve... my thinking is that the backhand half volley on my toes is my most difficult shot to hit... so I do have a worst case scenario plan in place to automatically dump that ball right in front of me... Against slicers... the short angle to my backhand side tends to be my Achilles heel... Although... I've also learned that serving the T on the AD side... and the wide to the forehand on the Deuce side... limit the severity of that shot against me... at least on ball 2 coming back at me... But I've been getting beat a lot when I slice this type of shot down the line... abd was always taught to play short balls straight in front of me... especially on my backhand side but once in a while I get my teeth stained tennis ball yellow...when I hang a ball on this play... My thing against slicers is that they pull me into No Man's Land... and then force me into an attack position that is not on my terms...when I move up to run down a slice... can't really shape an approach and can't quite place it as an attacking shot... but also can't really recover into a neutral or good defensive position either... I seem to have more success against this by attacking the middle of the court with approach shots... even if they aren't the best to approach on... but camping out... and split stepping right at the service line after the approach... and then taking the volley at their backhand and right at them... It seems like my common mistake is to get over aggressive on my approach of volley ... because I know I've not hit a sound shot that I would normally approach behind... but can't recover after either... So lately Ive been having more success by... "Bulldozering" the middle of the court on these plays... And anticipating the slice ... when I hit to their backhand usually nice and soft where I can make it to the T but then just camp out before I split step... this play always falls apart when I get tired or frusterated and over run the initial approach... slicers hit the ball so slow... that I don't need to be inside the service box to close out in a volley... I think the guy in this video is fast enough to do this too... But please make a video helping with what to do with the short angle slice hit inside the service box... in a run down situation... Or am I correct in attacking the middle of the court to try and just avoid it all together?

[@jasonself9000]

I played a 4.0 match tonight against a serve and volley slice player. It was crazy trying to figure out the way to play him. I finally figured it out but man you just don’t come across that very often.

[@willreidy5851]

Great analysis mate, thanks

[@charlesfaure1189]

Ian, absolutely. The thing to fix first--because it's easiest--is that court positioning. All that takes is a decision, and it's fixed. Hugging the baseline is great if you're a 4.5 and can take the ball early, but a player somewhere between 3.0 and 3.5 has no business there. And NOBODY has any business camping out in no man's land. Transitional traffic only. Trying to play serve-and-volley without learning the continental grip is a recipe for failure against even moderately competent players. The best of split-steps isn't going to help you if you swing at that high ball with an eastern forehand grip. Agassi could hit that shot, a 3.0-ish net player can't. If you wait for the ball to bounce before preparing, anything that lands less than ten feet in front of you is going to be trouble. If this opponent had actually had a topspin backhand your student's problems in the backcourt would have been even worse. The split-step is a problem, for sure--but I'd add that if you're settling onto your heels the split-step is wasted anyway. I see a lot of heel-toe running. People who play rec level don't need a lot of fancy footwork instruction--it does more harm than good--but you gotta get off your heels. The thing is, everything you have pointed out, and I have added, has NOTHING to do with a slicing opponent. With the exception of the initial clip at the beginning, the slices I saw were pretty poor. A high, floating slice barely counts as a slice at all. No bite, no curl, slow flying--even if he gets it deep it's an easy ball--or should be. The only serious problem was that the guy wasn't missing it! If you're in position with the shoulder turned and the racquet set it's nothing to hit it back. Last thing: Even at pro level, often the best way to handle a GOOD slice is to slice it back.

[@marktace1]

The strategy for beating slicers is high topspin floaters. One of my HS players was struggling against a girl who was slicing everything. I told her to hit a lot of topspin and not try to hit winners. She did it to an extreme, even hitting high topspin approach shots and she won easily from that point. It is difficult to hit an effective slice against a high ball, especially one with topspin.

[@hafadaze9046]

Nah it’s way easier to hit a slice on a high ball than a low ball and I love slicing sometimes I’ll take that high ball and make it a dropshot

[@EssentialTennis]

Absolutely Mike! If they are pushed back in the court with a high ball, It makes it difficult!

[@ruipedro4195]

Play with at least 3 players with good slice. Two with a good slice on the backhand and the other with a slice of the right and left which is very unusual. These players with slices are good athletes. That is, they run and are able to reach many balls. If they arrive on time, they are attacked by doing a passing shot or a lob, if attacked. That's why it's not easy to win these matches. One of my opponents, varied the game so much, that he both sliced ​​and played with topspin. Something also very unusual. Thanks for the video and the comments.

[@brandonvereyken4869]

really great analysis Ian. Love how you asked the questions and showed how to come up with the answers. I definitely learned some things from this. It's not a topic that comes up a lot for me, but when it does, it's usually a question from a student with bad movement. It doesn't cost him points in practice, and then he's irritated in a real match when he gets an opponent who exploits his bad movement. I tend to tell him to be honest about getting in better shape, strengthening his lungs and legs, and moving better, instead of making excuses. But I think your analysis about "home base" is correct, and I was missing that angle in my analysis.

[@6291390]

hi Ian, could you elaborate a bit more about how to handle the floating slice with volley? like the one at 3:39. I found this kind of shot very deceptive. seems easy for a put-away, but for players below 4.0, even 4.5, they end up dumping it into the net because of the underspin. should one adjust the volley swing path, or the racket face angle at contact, or even foot work?

[@EssentialTennis]

The problem is that the ball is spinning backwards, so when it hits your racquet, the ball will spin down towards the court. The first step is opening your racquet face more than you would think

[@joemarshall4226]

@@EssentialTennis Ping pong players know about this. You have to charge the ball, and be aggressive with your feet and hands...as Ian says, OPEN the racquet face, and PUNCH that volley several feet above the net....the spin will keep the ball from going out.

[@dineshdixit3306]

Thanks Ian, This is so great you explain this. We all can relate and learn

[@butacaexplosiva333]

My friend makes a slice and it always turns out well and at the back of the court very close to the sideline.

[@carlobertuman7725]

I find it easier to be inside the baseline when dealing against slicers. Not many can always hit it that deep. And if they do I'd rather take a shuffle back for a deep slice then sprinting up for a short slice. I guess I'm just old and lazy :D

[@benmccouch3273]

Another potential strategic (vs technique) takeaway from the forehand drive return is maybe he should only serve and volley if he can get the serve to his opponent's backhand to set up that slice return for a high easy volley. We would need to see a few more points to see if the opponent can drive that forehand return consistently.

[@EssentialTennis]

That's another great strategy is using serve placement to your advantage!

[@thomasmedeiros5722]

A great suggestion however this player needs to develop his split step and volley skill set to be effective. In coaching the big challenge is not teaching tactics like taking advantage of a high hanging return but your players don’t have the skills to make the shots to implement the tactics effectively.

[@ewalden01]

HI! Love your commentary on “home base”. It’s a helpful reminder but wondering about the other half of a slicers repertoire which is a consistent use of the short or drop shot ball. When I’m standing just behind BL I feel like a sitting duck for the DS…what shot should I be using to reduce these missteps?

[@MR-eh5mk]

the other difficulty with the 'slicer' (and I play one regularly) is positioning yourself for the return shot and anticipating the ball's bounce. I often end up too far away or tied up and too close because Im not reading the slice accurately enough

[@EssentialTennis]

Definitely, that's why they are so difficult to play!

[@JanitorIsBack]

zero of these plays had anything to do with the opponent's "slice" (which wasn't much of a slice). This was just basic tennis technique

[@geld5220]

So where’s the base suppose to be?? And if it’s back… what if the slicer have good drop shot disguise? Wherein he looks like he is slicing but he is drop shotting

[@ReidVV]

Like the new BG. No flashing lights (yikes!) Good depth and looks classy.

[@EssentialTennis]

Thanks!

[@ReidVV]

@@EssentialTennis Also like how the lighter part of the dome sort of of forms a halo around your head. After all, you ARE the source all of our tennis enlightenment. :-)

[@BANDofARRIVAL]

On example video #2, I would say it's forced error because not changing grip to continental for the volley actually forces him to miss! :)

[@EssentialTennis]

But if he didn't change his grip, wouldn't that be his own fault? 😎 I like to consider and error, just an error anyway!

[@BANDofARRIVAL]

@@EssentialTennis totally agree! That was just a joke:) I suppose both of them have a huge amount of unforced errors just by not executing proper fundamentals.

[@aninjame]

i think part of why he stands so far in is conditioning. slices can bounce very low and short where someone would need the extra step inside the court to reliably catch the ball before the second bounce. only seeing a few clips can't show us all the slices the opponent hits. i know 1 thing is a lot of people stand inside the court when playing someone that doesn't hit depth. usually lower level players than don't aim for depth on rallies where standing behind the baseline is a detriment, constantly having to run inside the court for short low balls. this would condition a player to stand inside the baseline making the deep court shots really stand out.

[@AlejandroBecerra1]

Thanks, Alejandro from Argentina

[@EssentialTennis]

You're welcome Alejandro! Glad it was helpful!

[@topspin1715]

Could you do a video on playing someone who moonballs everything from baseline and maybe someone that loves to hit drop shots? Anyone have advice how to defeat someone like that? Hot on the rise??

[@niceforkinmove5511]

Great stuff Ian! When I play a good slice player I tend to worry about the ball going short and low forcing me to charge up to get it. That might also be a sort of subliminal reason he is going inside the baseline. But what is odd is I kept getting burned last night by a player hitting groundstrokes deep with top spin and even then I didn't think to simply move back! Half the battle for me as a beginner is to maybe develop a check list of things to think about. Otherwise the only thing I am thinking about is keeping my eye on the ball my elbow high and my shoulder rotation so I can smack that forehand really hard! :)

[@johndonneshow6212]

The "Slicer" and "Moonballer" "Pushers" is a defensive player with No Pace, you find them in the NTRP 3.5 they never improve there NTRP.

[@rodf9000]

White shirt needs better strokes and an understanding of basic tennis strategy and court positioning. Period

[@fxfxwc]

Chop-Suey is difficult to play against.

[@andrewfinkelsteintennis1915]

Ok I'll be the bad guy: that is not a slice as I would describe it. The opponent huts the ball high and pretty slow with a little bit of back spin. There is no bite on the ball, it's bouncing waist high and straightening up a little bit. The guy at this end has loads of time to position himself and do something with it. His issues are more general and fundamental. The slice is a red herring. Wanna see a slice? Go to my channel, I hit a few the other day with my wife.

[@lynxpride7681]

First!

[@EssentialTennis]

💪🔥

[@fxfxwc]

0:46...It is kind of a moonball slice.