How to boil silver-nitrate bath for wet plate collodion process / TPV #23

This video is a tutorial video, it's not vlog as usual. It is my version of "Ted Forbes's kind of" video, he, he... But hey, now my silver works perfectly, so expect Topshit Photography Vlog back on track!
That said, the active wetplaters will find this information worth its weight in gold, or should we say its weight in AgNO3!
If you are looking for a workshop in wet plate collodion magic, please take a look on my site www.borutpeterlin.com/
The best place for these kind of workshops is George Eastman House with legendary Mark Osterman.
Last but not least, visit my Patreon page at the address
/ borutpeterlin

[@rogerionagaoka2345]

This is super important and very useful. Love it! I always come back to study! Thank you Borut!

[@WoodyONeal]

Easily the most entertaining thing I've watched all year.

[@teresashinkansen9402]

The idea of using the test tube as a density meter is brilliant! Another way to know the density of your solution to great accuracy is to pour some of the solution onto a graduated cylinder say 100ml (it can be done with less but I usually use a 100ml graduated cylinder for more accuracy) and then weight it on a scale and divide the weight in g by the ml to get density in g/ml. Don't forget to zero the scale to the weight of the empty graduated cylinder. For example if 100ml of solution weights 107.00g it means the solution has a density of 1.07g/ml or about 9.0% AgNO₃ I know it might look complex but its just another way in case you need to measure density.

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Excellent idea! Thx

[@fotolookconde]

@Teresa Shinkansen and @Borut Peterlin I weighted in a 100ml biker (I zero the scale) and it gives 101.63g. Should I add distilled water? Thanks

[@teresashinkansen9402]

@@fotolookconde Do not use beakers they are not accurate enough, it has to be a graduated cylinder or something even better like a volumetric flask. If 100ml of your solution weigh 101.63g (1.0163g/ml) instead of the 107.8g (1.078g/ml) it should (for a 9% solution), it means it is not dense enough, silver nitrate is more dense than water therefore that's what you have to add to increase density. How much well you can see the current percentage of your solution (about 2%) by looking at the density then add the corresponding missing amount. Here it is a handy table of silver nitrate water solution densities and concentrations, I suggest to download the excel table or take a screenshot and print it so it endures time and you have quick access to such on your darkroom. www.mt.com/hk/en/home/supportive_content/concentration-tables-ana/Silver_Nitrate_de_e.html

[@fotolookconde]

@@teresashinkansen9402 thanks a lot for your help. Be safe.

[@jceast76]

Thank you so much Borut! I have always sunned my silver but have never attempted a boil. I don't work hard enough to need to I think! Great advice as usual and the Gravity meter tip was genius. Please, keep making these instructionals, Love it. Thanks for all you do.

[@richardevans8480]

Thank you so much! Please make more tutorial videos. This was great and so helpful.

[@csanders604]

Aweome video. Very difficult process, but worth the effort. Many thanks

[@df9999999999]

Well, whatever the chemistry involved, I have to say your process worked perfectly! I finished the final filtering, concentration adjustment and ph adjustment tonight. I was afraid all of the black sludge after bicarbonate and boiling was a silver compound that had depleted my silver nitrate concentration to nothing, but this was not the case. After all the treatment and filtering, the SG dropped from my normal 1.07 to 1.055, not bad at all. 18 grams of silver nitrate added to my 650ml volume brought me to about 1.08. The ph after the sodium bicarbonate was about 6.0. I used 9% nitric acid to bring that down to 4.0. Perfect! Plates look amazing. The replenished silver nitrate is very active, sensitizing a plate in 2 minutes. The developer seems to flow over the plate much more smoothly. Thanks for the tutorial!

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

I'm glad to read that confirmation. It does, working with freshly boiling silver works I will dare to say (although I do not claim that) better than freshly mixed silvernitrate solution. The real huge difference is obvious when working with collodion negatives.

[@AzrielKnight]

Fantastic channel! Keep them coming!

[@andrewlaverghetta715]

This is one of the main things that makes me unsure about trying wet plate. I do have a specific gravity meter (or whatever) by chance, an old one, but I'm not really well versed in that.

[@hycarl.1623]

I love this video!

[@myronhensel]

Thank you for making this video. Can you fully recommend the PH meter that you’re using in the video? I just ordered one haha.

[@myronhensel]

Do you use buffer solution on your ph meter?

[@JanKratochvilcom]

Thanks my friend! Very useful!!! How much caolin do you put in for instance 100 ml of contaminated silver? What do you actually mean with contaminated silver? Dirty silver with some organic stuff?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Jan Kratochvil QS, quantity sufficient. one tablespoon in one litre should be enough. YES, contamination...

[@a.ebrahimi2427]

Lovely like always...

[@carbo73]

thanks for the video, now my silver bath is beginig to give problems, filling all the plates with tiny black pinholes. Sunning for 24h is not enough (but it's winter). I will try to neutralize and boil it

[@Fracazio9484]

Hi Borut, Thank you for all your commitment on divulghin of this splendid form of art. Your videos are very helping me, but about this one, i have had some trouble I've tryed, but something as gone wrong!, when added distilled water, to adjust gravity, my hand fall down, and to much water added, so the gravity now was 1050. what to do? obviously, add silver nitrate! But when add silver nitrate all the solution become withe, like milk, with many particles of something that I don't know what is. insoluble particles, or so they seems.... Somebody has experimented same? Somebody has an idea on how solve? Many many thanks for your appreciate help.

[@VadimSiniak]

Thanks, very useful!

[@Prebereda]

Good afternoon, my drawing is washed off during development. Maybe because of the pH 2 of the silver bath?

[@greggmcneill7407]

Thanks for this!

[@MathieuBeaulieuAsperger]

After boiling silver bath, do I have to let a plate with collodion inside for few hours? (Like a new bath?) Thank you very much Borut!

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

No, not necessarily.

[@MathieuBeaulieuAsperger]

Hi, today, do you use this method again? Do you boil with baking soda regularly ? Thank you very much 🙏🏻

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Well, few times a year. It depends how much do I manage to contaminate it while working in the woods.

[@michaelbermingham3559]

Thank you so much for your great content. How often do you clean and calibrate your ph meter

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Oh, I have to say I've spent so much money on pH meters, now I just don't use them anymore. I make a test, if it's fogging I add a little of nitric acid, make another test and so on.

[@michaelbermingham3559]

Ok cheers 👍

[@davidegrazzi98]

hi Borut, thanks for the work you share with us., does the process work even if glacial acetic acid is used instead of nitric acid?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Glacial acid can be used, but I don't have experience with it.

[@davidegrazzi98]

@@BorutPeterlinPhotography thank you very much anyway

[@jin9311]

Hello!. I live in South Korea and am a beginner with wet plates. I have a low pH, but I heard that ammonia can be used to increase the pH. But I don't know which ammonium to use. Can you tell me?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Ammonium will increase the pH but only temporarily, then it'll go down again. Baking soda reacts with the nitric acid so the pH will remain where it is

[@df9999999999]

What happens to the sodium bicarbonate during the process? Does it affect the specific gravity measurement. I guess it all changes to carbon dioxide and water, in theory, so should just disappear if not using too much?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Yes, what you describe is a reaction with nitric acid and what is left it reacts with silvernitrate and with the help of UV light sediments on the bottom.

[@df9999999999]

The process of boiling to remove excess insides is puzzling. An old Kodak wet plate manual recommends a process similar to what you describe, except sodium carbonate is used instead of sodium bicarbonate. It seems as though what is needed is to raise the ph above neutral and add an additional volume of water. This forces out the iodides. It seems counter-intuitive, since adding water should allow MORE iodides to remain in solution, not cause them to precipitate.

[@vittoriorestelli7190]

hello borut, i raised ph using baking soda filtered it twice and sunned it for 2 days. than i filtered it twice again. the liquid should be crystal cleat, right? my agno3 has a yellowish tint now. do i have to boil it for just raising ph? thx

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Vittorio Restelli add baking soda and put it to sun, so it will become black. The yellow tint should not be there after two days of sunning

[@vittoriorestelli7190]

Borut Peterlin, hvala!

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

if it's still yellow, then boil the devil out! Add 50% of water and boil it to initial level. THat will make it black, but filterable and after sunning, it will be a joy to work with

[@Tom-mq6ie]

What to do when my silver nitrate bath has a yellow tint? I sunned and filtered it many times, looked good. Now a couple hours passed and it became yellow

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Add kaolin one spoon to it, leave it for a day, filter it. Or just sunning it and filtering it until it remains clear.

[@MathieuBeaulieuAsperger]

Hi, one of my silver bath always turn grey, pink or with. I did the same process with another bath and everything is alright. So, with my grey bath, I tried adding Kaolin, and filter but same issue. I tried to boil again and evaporate all the water, but same issue. Ph is good, density too… Do you have a tips or an idea to solve this problem ? Thank you🙏🏻

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Kaolin. Add one tabel spoon per litre, shake it well and wait until it settle down. Leave it sunning. If it's still grey, more kaolin.

[@MathieuBeaulieuAsperger]

@@BorutPeterlinPhotography kaolin is our life 😍😂 Thank you very much.

[@colecaswell]

I added to much baking soda - accidental slip - having issues bring the PH back down with nitric acid after boil sun and filter. Any thoughts?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

I think you have more an issue with your pH measuring. It's really weird with silvernitrate. My advice, make tests. Make a test, in your usual workflow, if it fogs, then add 1 drop of nitric acid in one litre of AgNO3. If you have only 500 ml of the solution, add one drop to 10 ml of distilled water and then add half of that diluted nitric acid. Go slowly down and when the fog will be gone, you have the perfect pH. Measuring pH in silvernitrate is really difficult and unreliable.

[@colecaswell]

@@BorutPeterlinPhotography thank you for the quick reply!!! I’ll give that advice a go. Was thinking that the digital PH meter was off but I also tested it and recalibrate the meter - with no change in reading. Silver bath PH is around 9. Sunning it today will shoot with it tomorrow.

[@r.taylor7293]

way to much work for me my friend...i always have two or three batches at one time..two sunning/filtering while using the other...after 500 plates or so maybe I'll combine the three and try to boil..never heard of this method but willing to give it a try thanks and keep up the good work..come to America and put on a work shop !

[@argentum_on_glass]

how do you boil it? what about the explosive side of the boiling process? Silver fulminate ?

[@alejandrarosales7836]

My nephew calls it shaking the devil out! Lol

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Yes, perfect naming! ha,ha...

[@argentum_on_glass]

i did not get the trick with the kaolin and the cotton... how do you get the silver out then?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

you let it settle down and then decant it. I have a bottle that I can blow the air in and the pressure pushes the solution out and in that is very little kaolin. But you are right, filtering doens't work. Only decanting.

[@argentum_on_glass]

@@BorutPeterlinPhotography what i dont understand is how the Kaolin is being used...as the silver is in the liquid... and if the kaolin gets wet its a sauce... ? how does the kaolin helps to filter the silver out in what process. :)

[@thekarmafarmer608]

Hi Borut / wet plate community. I wonder if anyone can advise on an alternative to nitric acid for this procedure.

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Nitric is best, but also glacial (acidic) acid would work, but I never tried it.

[@thekarmafarmer608]

@@BorutPeterlinPhotography Very interesting and useful video friend. You have the only reliable/working information that I trust. I started wet plate 12 years ago but moved house. I`m only just restarting my wet plate process. I`m surprised at how many people are doing the process now. Also, getting the chemicals has become very difficult. Good luck to you buddy. I hope you will come to the UK next year to do something.

[@bisqpT]

Hey what % nitric acid do you use for decrease ph silver nitrate solution? Thnx

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

I vaguely remember 35%, I'm not sure, but it's the pH value is that matters.

[@bisqpT]

Topshit Photography thanks a mill I’m really appreciate!

[@dreams4867]

OOh my god, you have too be a chemist for do it, so you are verry good chemist :-(

[@canescens]

Thanks man and how are the kidneys?

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

canescens i don't know, ask the guy who bought them...

[@DLxFC]

2 more drops *pours the whole bottle into the silver*

[@df9999999999]

Very good video! I followed this process exactly with identical results. The scariest part was adding the sodium bicarbonate, which turns the silver nitrate a weird yellow color with lots of foam. Is the yellow stuff the iodides in solution "coming out" from increased ph? I don't know, but there was a large amount of black sludge in the bottom of the beaker after boiling the solution down to about 2/3 the original volume. After filtering, it was nice and clear and very concentrated, perhaps 20%. Adding distilled water, it turned yellowish-cloudy again, as though the distilled water was contaminated. Weird! I sunned it again under a UV lamp and the yellow turned black almost instantly and fell to the bottom overnight. PH is now about 6.0. I plan to filter again, bring the specific gravity back to 1.07 and add nitric acid to drop the ph back to 4.5 or so. This was a scary process, but seemed to work. It gets out far more junk than normal sunning, which I assume is the iodide content.

[@mc-ec3bu]

He should be on children's Tv not here with the grownups .

[@mc-ec3bu]

Incompetence. Try being less trendy and learn your trade.

[@BorutPeterlinPhotography]

Thank you for your opinion. I've learned my craft at George Eastman House with Mark Osterman. If you can give me an advice to get better source of information, I will be grateful. Topshit happens!