How To Build A Better Battery

[@bekyned]

Very inspiring as always. I need batteries for my solar system and love the idea of making my own. Thanks

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

easy to do mate - give it a go

[@edwardcdg]

It is a joy to watch an Industrial Chemyst on the trail. Well done.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@WTF_BBQ]

I'm not a chemist but i am very interested in battery technologies. I did some experiment with ultrabatteries based on your older video. I made 5 separate lead batteries with different configurations. In all instances, the negative plate never breaks down but the positive plates always do (flakes off chunks of Lead oxides). It's even faster when the negative plate is coated with carbon. So, i decided to coat the positive plate with carbon, and surprisingly, i didn't see any breakdown and saw a slightly improved capacity. My results seem contradictory from what i've read about the construction of ultrabattery.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that is interesting mate as I read the same stuff - I didn't have the same problem you did so it might have been the carbon you used or the binder you used - I don't know - but the felt has no binder so it work pretty well

[@steffybael1245]

great video again!!! im watching this video for the 3rd time 1 year apart. im NOT much of an experimenter but i do do a lot of small size scrapping for instance i cut the terminals off of car batteries and other batteries because the scrap price for batteries was just 8 cents per pound on 6/16/2023(yesterday) and i sold over 500 pounds i have watched videos of guys from INDIA or PAKISTAN cut apart truck batteries and make new plates from the old plates by melting and recasting then making a new battery. i watched "codys lab" do a video like that around 10 years ago. what would be really cool would be to cut apart old batteries after draining and recharging several times with distilled water to salvage all the acid possible. make some really big plates and cells and make a battery at home that would be huge and energy dense too. or maybe a huge number of smaller batteries to make a power wall or sort of from lead acid at home!

[@ehochimalpi]

Robert you and your team are stars :-) I was searching now for two weeks for a carbon black filled HDPE . I make long discharge tests and with standards grafoil but the grafoil dissolve always after days. so I hope the carbon black filled HDPE will fix my problem :-) So thanks for that lg gerhard

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

we are adding it now mate - should be on the shop tomorrow or the day after

[@ehochimalpi]

@@ThinkingandTinkering super

[@blackseabrew]

Not kidding when I say I had a similar idea with a carbon impregnated material. I had a short contract helping a filtration material OEM upgrade their plasma vapor deposition lines. The let me keep a generous sample of their filter material for the purposes of exploring battery development. Happy to send you some.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that's very kind mate - I have tried an awful lot of carbon materials both made by myself and available on the market it Ould be better if you tried this with your carbon material and posted a video on the results - but thanks for the offer

[@DaleOwens1]

excellent video. the sound was great.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

awesome mate - I was a bit worried as the lab is basically a big echoing space - but cheers

[@jeffreyrood8755]

Great work. It is very responsible to improve the LAB since it's already been made and used resources. Way to go Rob!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@RWBHere]

Now all we need to do is replace the Lead Oxide with something else, to turn it into something lighter still, non-toxic and . . . tadaaa! We have granddad's old broom reborn! Thanks Robert.

[@aion2177]

Is the video of making the carbon felt available in the members area? The shipping cost would be so big for me that i better invest that in making it myself.

[@ihtsarl9115]

Very Intelligent Congrats Robert

[@nitrousman8882]

Great video.... have you thought about doing a Lead Acid Battery using bipolar plates?

[@TheDrrbc]

I’d like to see you do this to the size of a standard automobile battery and see what you get out of it.

[@schr4nz]

The website you linked is not 'secure' despite the URL saying secure.x.x ... maybe fix that :)

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate - I'll get on to it

[@johnchenery18]

I couldn't get on the website either, said not secure and that too many redirects, I'm after some of that Carbon plastic you melted over the plates. Top notch vids by the way, very inspiring.

[@floridacoder]

How important is the thickness of the positive lead plate? I was thinking of pulling the copper mesh through a lead bath to coat with a thin layer of lead. Combining that with the carbon hdep approach you suggest on the negative side. Reducing weight. And I want to roll it all since it's now flexible. I'm sure you could tell me why that is a bad idea before I waste time. If that's a bad idea, is there another way to reduce the weight of the positive side without making a sacrifice in performance and reducing weight?

[@mark64tanner]

Very cool Robert. Question: Could you make a hemp based plastic substitute for the HDPE you're using? Just a thought on an eye to sustainability. Really love your thought provoking work. Thanks.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

you probably could mate - I would say give it a go and let me know how you get on - cheers

[@mark64tanner]

@@ThinkingandTinkering LOL, way past my capabilities. Just a thought. Keep getting FB stuff talking bout Hemp replacements for Petrochemicals..

[@scotttovey]

The drawback to using hemp is that unlike the HDPE, it is not resistant to the acid and will deteriorate over time. Sustainability is a good concept provided you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There is no magic switch that allows the world to go from a petroleum based economy to a "sustainable" economy overnight in the way that the extremists demand. When thinking about sustainability, make sure your sustainability approach does not do more harm than good. If it turns out that sustainability does more harm than good; then what's the point?

[@daniejvr5021]

​@@ThinkingandTinkering I vind your vidios insperational .l want to re make my deep cycle lead acid batteries .I opend all kinds of lead. Acid batteries and foun the possetive plate disintergrated .my problim nou is in South Africa I can not find plate seperators,wat can I make them off Danie

[@jwioo]

If you make the copper sulphate cell from clear plastic, the colour change would indicate the state of charge, could be quite useful.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

nice point mate - thanks for posting

[@karlm5022]

Another Brilliant video Rob! Great work!!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@bernardpoas9863]

Again a very good video on batterie marker , but have you think about how to make de Daniel batterie?

[@paolomartini150]

In the case of a car ultra battery replacement /swap from a regular one, would the alternator suffer from the different charging characteristics?

[@evanriddle1614]

Is the power every bit as good as a Pb battery but doesn't last as long? Density is good but capacity lacking?

[@sarchlalaith8836]

How would this refurb battery perform as a battery in an electric vehicle, like a tesla What about forming a graphene foam plate from anaerobic carburisation of a risen bread? And that copper penta sulphate is what they use as root killer isn't it? Could we then, in theory, use root killer in a fixed, wide and long but shallow container, with multiple long plates of the plate you're describing here, make an effective scratch made battery?

[@MartinPHellwig]

Also the recycle rates for lead batteries is actually quite awesome, sure it has many drawbacks but the industrial process around it has very much matured and we are approaching the lowest environmental impact that is possible with that technology, to do better we need to move to something else, but that is something Rob has been working on now for quite some time :-)

[@clintscreations9466]

Why don't all lead acid battery manufacturers move to lead carbon technology ?

[@AndyAndy-ny4cq]

@@clintscreations9466 they last a lot longer 15k cycles discharge rate. Not good if your in the business of selling batteries that only cycle 500 times. Not good for business profits the economy etc plus the patent for the Ultra battery is licensed by companies who don't want that. You can buy the USA Deka ultra battery they have licence for usa market. Wait till the patent expires it will be a free for all or just make your own

[@gideonrl]

Thanks Rob, Another great and informative video. Thanks Gideon

[@Khwartz]

How Amazing the number of Amazing Simple Ideas, You can pop-up Mate! :) So I am Happy having bought something recently on your shop to Support You and your team, even if You Guys, don't share the same Economic Perspectives (your refusal of my Deal to Spread your Technologies in my country, France). Best Regards, Didier

[@4gauge10]

How many charges and discharges are these good for?.The battery that I just bought for my truck is called a Deka Ultimate and it's rated at about 1000 charges discharges in its lifetime Robert.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

it's in the papers I suggested mate - have a read of them

[@4gauge10]

@@ThinkingandTinkering Okay,I'll check it out.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

@@4gauge10 awesome mate

[@AndyAndy-ny4cq]

Ultra battery is licensed to east pen manufacturing in USA but it appears the Deka Ultimate car battery uses silver lead alloy extra electrolit reservoir and a paste on the plates to improve performance. The Ultra battery can cycle 15000 times but is more suitable for various discharge cycles such as off grid solar systems they sell them in prewired pallet units

[@AndyAndy-ny4cq]

Standard lead battery 500 cycles 3 to 5 years. Deka ultimate 1000 cycles assume linear relationship 6 to 10 years. Deka ultra battery 15000 cycles how many years will that last? The carbon stops the sulfation issue dramatically. They probably licenced the Ultra battery to stop competitors selling it but they don't market it as a car battery

[@geodeaholicm4889]

definitely of interest, & definitely enjoyed it.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

awesome mate - cheers

[@paulbrouyere1735]

If you say the weight drops to about 10% of the original, could it be interesting in aviation? I’m a former aeromodeller. Just curious.

[@mehmetozturk9477]

Can you make all solid state battery or all dry battery/ultra capasitor?

[@Michael-vp4zt]

great job

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@JamesWilson-pq9qp]

Hmm, stainless steel is a great source of Nickel, maybe we can improve that Edison Battery of lifetime service. Lead is so nasty; Sulfuric Acid is no fun either. I wonder if a little carbon would help with Ni-Fe run-away stability. Nice follow-up on to your previous video 3 or so years ago!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

well worth a try mate - give it a go and let me know how you get on - cheers

[@wanderingzanzey2126]

Great video, but the link in the description does not lead to the products you plugged in the video.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

you have to put all in the drop down box on the page and it will show - trying to fix that

[@wanderingzanzey2126]

@@ThinkingandTinkering alright, i also noticed that your site is not SSL secure, this will be an issue for people to put in payment information on an unsecure site. When the shop is fixed, i'll definitely be purchasing some felt and HDPE, as i need exactly those components for a special battery chemistry that i am working on.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

@@wanderingzanzey2126 cheers mate

[@toddmckenney4511]

Robert Murray-Smith could you use lithium sulphate instead of the copper or zinc sulphate maybe with an alternative solvent?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

don't know you could try - let me know how you get on - cheers

[@amazac2078]

Hey ROB,outstanding and interesting findings / efforts thanks for sharing,i think one day (humanity power storage blocks )will tend to be more satisfying with those clever solutions,i am seeing it happening so fast ,keep the good work God bless,cheers mate.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@jamest.5001]

What do you think about modifying a forklift battery, the large 2v cells in series, making a 24,36,48v battery of about 1000ah+, I'm thinking of solar use, i have heard ppl swear they used them 25+ years and still going, used every day, i have a small fla battery bank, about 600 ah+/-, but also started building a lithium bank, 7s 29.4v. Since my inverter can handle 30-31v, what would this mod, do for capacity? And lifespan, my peak current discharge is around 250 amps, but normally only 25-50 amps, i can't afford expensive batteries, i have spent 2.5 years building up a 500 ah lithium bank,I want to get it in service, and use the lead acid for backup, and I can charge them with a DC generator, I don't want to risk that with my lithium battery, it's a 150 amp alternator on a 12hp engine, 150 amps at around 28v, the 2v fork lift cells are 3-4x the size of a car battery, if I could get one nearly at the end of its life, could it still be successfully converted? A refurbished battery is $1500-$2500 depending on size and voltage, my concern is using them daily, and not keeping them charged fully daily. And sulfation taking over. I could use the generator to top them off. On the days they do not get fully charged by solar, but that could get old! About 50% of my reason for being off grid, is to help the earth, I do not want to burn hydrocarbons! I just as well be grid connected. I think of you as the genius guru of battery chemistry, I don't like powering my home with grenades, but if the life and energy is there, lithium works, and doesn't have to be fully charged to prevent failure, that is a big concern, Also with this mod, how much of the energy density is from the loss of weight? Or is this a part of the figures? What do you think the life will be? And what us the failure mode? So sorry for the rambling, have a great day, cheers,

[@paulneilson6117]

The dendrites with zinc are probably the issue with the failure of the zinc lead oxide version as opposed to the copper.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

dendrites really only form in alkaline solutions mate - the issue is going to be hydrogen evolution zinc in acid is notorious for that - but there are mitigation strategies to depress hydrogen evolution.

[@paulneilson6117]

@@ThinkingandTinkering Good point about the alkaline environment. There is a patent teaching that if some bismuth sulfide is added it overcomes the issue with hydrogen generation.

[@davidmayhall6567]

I need replacement battery's for my wheelchair they are rated 12volts and 35 Amp hours how can I build battery's for my wheelchair comparable

[@Justin-ng4zg]

Does FWG have any plans to make an economical fuel cell like the kind bloombox promised?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

not at the moment but it is something I am thinking about

[@fuller-media]

Rob thinking about H fuel cell. Have you done much experimentation about diy proton exchange membrane?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

no mate sorry

[@hirnlager]

can you build in piezo crystals and use piezo effekt?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I won't do it - but I suppose you could - give it a go and let me know how you get on

[@kolinevans9127]

What about some 554 to preserve the effekt?

[@ArjayMartin]

Is stoichiometry taken into account... e.g. this much carbon for this much electrolyte for those that aren't familiar with the term... It means the right amount of the components for the reaction without 'waste'... e.g. H2O (Water) = use 2 bits of Hydrogen to one bit of Oxygen (but you need at least 2x that as Oxygen is normally O2)... if you have 180 bits of Hydrogen per Oxygen molecule = inefficient and ditto if 180 bits of oxygen per hydrogen (although then surely it is easier to breath.... :p Here applied, the carbon might be the right amount for maximum performance, or could be too little or too much... maybe making thicker carbon infused material, or more surface area might give better performance. I wonder.

[@vivdlyvague6627]

The carbon felt does not show up in the shop.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

you have to click all in the drop down box at the top of the page and it will show mate but here is the link to help mate secure.workingink.co.uk/shop/working-ink-materials/activated-carbon-felt/

[@William_Hada]

Thanks for another fascinating video! I was wondering whether you would consider offering a hydrophilic separator like Celgard 3500 for aqueous batteries in your web shop. Celgard 2400 is easy to get hold of on eBay but doesn't work well with aqueous electrolytes. I have been searching a long time now for the coated Celgards with no luck what so ever.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

secure.workingink.co.uk/shop/working-ink-materials/celgard-separator/ - that's the one mate

[@William_Hada]

@@ThinkingandTinkering I checked in your web shop yesterday but didn't see listed for some reason :P Thanks for the link, I just ordered some.

[@marcosvaleriociencia1021]

Very nice, my brother!!!!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@petergold4823]

Damn you Rob stop posting such good video's I already have a list as long as my arm of stuff I want to try out! Just out of curiosity did you try using PAN felt as current collector and bonding your active carbon to it? Seriously though thanks for the inspiration.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

lol - I know mate I can be a pain lol - I did indeed mate and it gives pretty reasonable results

[@aothunterpl]

Will we be able to expect a capacitor in a 18650 casing in the near future with energy stored in the same way as a 18650 chemical cell? Greetings.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I'll probably do prismatic mate - easier for me to make

[@aothunterpl]

@@ThinkingandTinkering So it's obvious to be easier. But the question is whether at the moment the technician will allow to pack as much energy in the condenser as in the equivalent of a chemical cell. This would be a big step forward for modern, super-fast batteries for electric vehicles.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

@@aothunterpl yeah really lol - cheers mate

[@WIZ56575]

We found that you've done all types of batteries except a crystal battery do you think they're not worth your time or can you do a short video on the subject, maybe taking an old subject and bringing New Life to it like electrostatic battery give us more information these things working with thee type of batteries I believe are on the uprise and it's not much information about them. Because they use atmospheric electricity or the Piezo effect to gain its energy. They last many years, and as you can see many people are working on crystal batteries how about you thanks a lot.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I think you said it in your post mate - lots of folks are working on crystal batteries and there is a lot of info out there - I don't think that many folks post about carbon based devices like I do so I concentrate on that really and there is a lot to do on that subject so I am not sure if I will be looking at crystal cells anytime soon I am afraid - but it is in the back of my mind

[@aion2177]

thanks for letting me know crystal batteries are a thing.

[@Buzzhumma]

Hi Rob. What is the purpose of the hdpe carbon plastic?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

I say in the video mate - It prevents the acid from attacking the steel and is conductive so the steel current collector is in contact with the active material

[@Buzzhumma]

@@ThinkingandTinkering ah yes you did say. Cheers🙏

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

@@Buzzhumma no worries mate

[@em9594]

I'm sure it's been asked a hundred times now, but how do you do this with a larger battery? Say a 12 volt car battery?

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

exactly the same way mate - if you open a large battery you will see just the same stuff only bigger - you do the same thing but the plates are 15cm by 15 cm instead of 3cm by 3cm as shown

[@MassUX]

Thumbs up!

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers mate

[@tamaseduard5145]

Thank you sir 🙏 🙏 🙏

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

cheers

[@Barskor1]

Refurbishing old dead/minimal functioning batteries to this system might work.

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

that's a really nice idea mate

[@uivideo7637]

Great info thinks.

[@ArjayMartin]

Do you have a bunch of Patents to your name? If not, then wow.

[@ArjayMartin]

I finally received a heat gun, and will try to replace the cells in 2 laptops and hopefully fix a water damaged phone (wanting on plastic tools for that one) or at least get the files off of it (including evidence needed of certain crimes against a couple of people).

[@6969smurfy]

Awsume!!

[@ArjayMartin]

interesting

[@nattsurfaren]

7:37 Oops! he dropped it

[@ThinkingandTinkering]

it happens mate lol

[@nickscott4756]

While I appreciate the content of this video... DUDE.. look over your closed captions, they're just.. wild. -I- can understand 95% of what you say but.. uh.....