How to Build a SUPER-CAPACITOR for your Electric Motorcycle Conversion

[@Levi_Allen]

Man I absolute love this stuff. Found your build last week just finished catching up through all your build episodes. I’m annoyed KZbin was hiding it from me! I’m part way into a CB750 Electric Motorcycle conversion as well, and was stoked to see someone else doing this build but further down the road. Lot’s of interesting electric motorcycle builds but not many CB750’s! I’ve gone the hub motor route with the 12kw QS motor. Hopefully I don’t regret it! I won’t be dropping my build series till the summer, as we’ve got other stuff planned in the meantime. But stoked for you guys! The finish line is in sight for you. Bummed I didn’t find your build series when you started.

[@Levi_Allen]

I love the idea of using a Super Capacitor to help deliver instantaneous high AH’s for pulses. I’m still designing my final battery build. Gonna stick with 72v for more low end torque (but less top end speed). And this is great to see you experimenting with a super capacitor like this. Reminds me of how an accumulator tank can be used in a water tank system to keep good water pressure available before the pump spools up. Beauty. Curious to see how this works out in your next road tests.

[@dadsfriendlyrobotcompany]

Awesome! I am going to use the same motor on a 1972 Honda SL125 rolling frame that i picked up. The batteries I am using are EVE ICR18650/20P, which can provide 20A cont. each. I am still gathering them and will use around 160+ of them for a 20S8P pack at minimum. Not looking to do any more than ride around town and maybe some trails.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

I love your channel, Levi!

[@jamieforrester7108]

you have a youtube channel and you're doing an electric motorcycle conversion. why don't I see any conversion videos on it?

[@Levi_Allen]

​@@jamieforrester7108 still in the earliest phases of acquiring parts and designing everything. It takes a long time for stuff to make it from China. There will be videos soon enough. Might end up condensing the build series into 4-8 videos. We will see though!

[@69Dartman]

It's cool to be on the ground floor of new technology like this super capacitor for the bike. It looked like it was running a lot smoother and was really starting to move. I met a guy here about 4 years ago at work that had a world record holding Datsun electric drag car. He was smart and was telling us about building it and the latest ideas he had, plus a car he was building mostly for long range normal street commuting. Sometimes your ideas are bigger than you realize and suddenly there you are like what's the big deal. 😎👍

[@bj97301]

At first I thought you were wasting your time. Didn’t realize your batteries couldn’t keep up with your controller. Interesting workaround.

[@Zomby_Woof]

Adding an additional failure point to only partially compensate for a deficient component, instead of addressing an easily fixable root deficiency, does not strike me as good engineering. Two spim08hp 36v modules would give you 72v nominal, 84 at full charge, and delivers 600 amps continuous, which is more battery voltage that the Kelly controller used in this build can handle. You'd be able max out the controller's phase output with ease.

[@inessentialtitle1994]

@@Zomby_Woof thats a thousand in batteries at that point. at that point why not buy a good lithium ebike?

[@Zomby_Woof]

@@inessentialtitle1994 You aren't making any sense. Yes, it would cost about $900 for the cells, shipped. What kind of battery do you think is included in a 'good lithium bike?' I guarantee it's not one that will output anywhere near that power level. The Sur Ron is a $4100 quality e-bike. You can pay an extra $1700 to upgrade to a battery with less than half the power output of the arrangement I mentioned. Disregarding the cost of the bike itself - would you pay $1700 to save $1000? DIY batteries are always the best deal, but they must be designed for the system which they are intended to power. And designing for a specific high performance level has costs, either in dollars or in waiting for availability of the right cells. They now have a Frankenstein battery system with part of it based on 18650 cells, and the rest of it in prismatic cells. , I was going to reconfigure one of those packs for a 24ah 72v nominal battery pack, but unfortunately the shipping is too expensive for me right now. I have to wait until I can afford it, or the pouch cells become available broken down so that they don't require hazmat freight, or go with 18650's, which can ship in multiple cartons.

[@dantsy6397]

@@Zomby_Woof holy shit where did you learn all this. As soon as I ask about big power battery configuration on these forums these granola munching freaks come out of the woodwork to tell me how I am fucking up the "ebike community". I'm the biggest noob but even trying to learn more has proved to be a challenge.

[@jimmysyar889]

@@Zomby_Woof 21700 or teslas new 4860 size cells would be a better option that a bunch of 18650's

[@InfinionExperiments]

Hello, I just wanted to give some feedback about the supercap build and share some advice from my own experience with a larger pack. 1:40 "Total voltage / cell rated voltage = # of cells" This is true, however, it should be expressed more like "Absolute maximum voltage / balance circuit turn-on threshold * 98%". Adding a safety factor is important for a few reasons. #1) Balance circuit threshold should be considered, because these balance boards use a shunt regulator chip that turns on full-power after crossing the balance circuit turn-on threshold. If the pack is charged to the 2.7V max to meet the lithium pack's 100% SoC, you'll be seeing a 2-3W discharge PER balance circuit, and if they're in parallel with your lithium pack, the balance boards will take the voltage down with them. For 117V/2.7V = 43 cells, that represents up to 130W of total active balancing power. #2) There's a certainty that cells bought (especially from non-OEM resellers on Aliexpress) without specific mention of "binning" will be unbalanced, as much as 20% (or more) variance in capacitance. This means that lower capacitance cells will exceed their rating, causing decomposition of the electrolyte and loss of capacitance during fast charging. This is obviously not good because these capacitors have extremely long shelf lives and can recharge a million times or more over their lifetime. #3) The caps can be fast charged easy, but because of point #2, you want the active balancing to protect the series cells. So try and limit charging to be no higher than the balancing power as a general rule. What I did for my 6s2p 46Wh setup was just upgrade the balance circuit to be 50W per cell, so I can happily charge at 600W and have peace of mind that I'm not being harsh to my cells. Also keep in mind this is mostly important for deeply discharged caps. I'm fine with charging my pack at 1.5kW when they're above 50%. Especially since they are topped off with solar each day. With such a large number of series cells, upgrading the balancer is kind of impractical for you, so please just keep in mind the already-designed balancing power. #4) Ratings provided by the reseller on Aliexpress may or may not be accurate. What I can tell you is these balance boards use the TL431 shunt regulator to drive a larger transistor in the balance circuit. When the chip's reference pin is directly connected to positive anode, it would kick in at 2.5V. The designers will instead connect the reference pin to a voltage divider to increase the turn-on threshold by some calculated amount. I strongly encourage double-checking the divider values to make sure the voltage is not too high (causing cap damage) and not too low (causing lithium pack parasitic drain). Next, 8:01 there is NO BYPASSING. As mentioned previously, the balance board is powered by a shunt regulator, and simply connects a pair of resistors in parallel with the supercap. It does not bypass or block the voltage fed to the + and − contacts in any way. Once you exceed 2.7V, you are overstressing the capacitor. 8:27 It only "shuts off charge to the capacitor" if you have limited your charger to supply no more than the cumulative 2-3W of power per cell. If you exceed 2-3W per cell, you will be overstressing the capacitor. That all said, great job with the soldering, heat shrinking, insulating, and enclosing. The overcharge issue shouldn't be a concern at all if you keep the supercaps in parallel with your lithium cell and you never quick charge them all the way to full from 0V Here's some photos of my 46Wh pack before I installed it into my car photos.app.goo.gl/NPHGyuRrHg5sK2Wa8 . I am completely lead-acid free and have been for about 2 years now. The supercaps are charged by solar, so obviously I park outside, but I've had no issues starting even when the voltage has sagged as low as 9V. Edit: when I refer to quick charging, I mean charging to full in less than 10 seconds.

[@harold9421]

Great video! Do keep us up to date if the cafe racer gets more mods

[@TheInja]

For sure!

[@evolveelectricvehicles8551]

@@TheInja just have to build this one, rest have been built like your bike. Video on my channel

[@SniperSnake50BMG]

Having a Supercap buffer... I really want to see that thing pull from a stop... Is going to be awesome!!! Edit: the cliffhanger thou...!

[@fareastmanilavideoproducti4499]

I like how he puts some leds on those capacitors as a balancer, brilliant!

[@SniperSnake50BMG]

3:27 it seems Lord Curt knows the real people! Haha good reference!!!

[@yaksauce]

Killer KERS build, dude! This is future tech stuff and the future is now! Thanks for posting and inspiring other makers! If i was making a KERS I’d reach out to Skelton to see if they have any special super-caps they recommend for an M/C project. Also, i’d custom design a BMS that delays/prolongs super-cap discharge rate optimally to 7 secs. This would greatly reduce strain/drain of the cell pack but give superior performance during energy demanding events, such as when accelerating from stop and WOT passing. 👍🏼✌🏼

[@billbergen9169]

Seeing the caps balance is so cool!

[@jelleversluis95]

Interesting solution, I thought earlier on in the build, it is nice to want all this torque but the battery must be able to discharge fast enough. But this surely is an interesting solution. But watch out with the leakage of the caps when the bike is off, it will drain the battery. Maybe put a relay in between, connected to the ignition switch? In series production the addition of a cap bank like this would particularly be interesting for regenerative braking energy storage, and/or increase of max torque for short duration for a boost mode or launch control.

[@donduck1176]

I really like how your spark tests are near the Blue Rhino propane tank. Guts and glory dude.

[@roneyeam]

Best bike build I've ever seen on KZbin

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

What an incredible super capacitor electric motorcycle!

[@NigelBurn]

Just wow, I've never heard stuff so well explained and demonstrated before really love this channel now thanks for posting...

[@coolissimo69]

Man it screamsssssssss , great job Inja.

[@johnfew5145]

I have followed this build with great interest. I love your get up and go, and can do mentality. May I add some comments ? 1. I have some of those Green-Cap 2.7v 500 farad SuperCaps. I haven't tested them for their "farad rating", but the physical size indicates that they are only 350 farads each. 2. Remember that SuperCaps won't hold there charge like a LiFePO4 battery. They leak. You need a disconnect device/relay between the LifFePO4 battery and the SuperCaps when the bike is switched off, otherwise the SuperCaps will provide a pretty hefty parasitic drain on your LiFePO4 battery. 3. If you are only charging the LifePO4 batteries to 115 volts, and you increase the number of SuperCaps to say 45, that will give you a nominal max voltage for the SuperCaps of 121.5 V, and you won't be able to overcharge the pack. Would you then need a balancer for each SuperCap ?

[@science_steve]

When I moved from Ohio to PA, I started popping capacitors and MOSFETs in my BLDC controllers. I always assumed it was from reversing voltage direction. I intuitively thought "I bet if I put a capacitor inline between the battery and controller that it would prevent this issue." I then typed in electric motorcycle capacitor and found this video. I bet this will solve my problem.

[@SirBalageG]

Hey! May I ask how you connected the SC pack? I mean, is there anything in between it and the motor controller, or you connected it to the BMS, or what else? I’m thinking about a similar design and am a bit clueless how to connect the SCs into the grid

[@frazahmad5268]

Awesome job guys once again you both have surpassed yourselves. Frikkin exciting.

[@JawadAhmadsahibzada]

Great work 👍🏼 I have a question, did you added circuit breaker or fuse between batteries and controller ? I’m building a smaller and less powerful one and thinking about this. Should I add it or let BMS do the job. I have smart adjustable BMS in which I can limit output current

[@yopeaches5121]

Big up fella , im gonna do this on a little 48v bicycle . had the idea to do this last year. I saw another youtuber running power tools on a similar kind of set up. Any advice you can give on good controllers?

[@DanielSilva-sd1fi]

Great video, you answered all the burning questions I had on my head , thanks

[@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes]

This guy is a fucking genius. I love the way he creates a clever solution for every issue and, in the process, makes it better than it was before. BTW Lamborghini Sián use s the same technology! High power output in a short period of time using supercapacitors.

[@TheIndustrialphreak]

So are you using a custom controller or are you tie-ing this between your battery and your controller? Im super interested in using something like this either as a booster or possibly just to dump my Regen power to save my battery life/charge cycles.

[@floatncoffee]

Nice! So the amps the SC can releases is in “addition” to the amp release from battery? Or “instead of” I’m building a bike using same batts (100ah) and same controller. I might be running into the same issue.

[@jimmysyar889]

they're wired in parallel so the controler doesn't care where it's taken the current from. It'll take current from them both and the amount of current from each source doesn't really matter.

[@SaucerX]

Yooo that's sick! 🤣🤙🏼 Keep up the good vibes guys!

[@brianingle7535]

just out of curiousity do you think you could make a hybrid rig with a small....say 2k Watt generator equipped with a simple Bridge rectifier you could charge a bank of capacitors to keep a DC motor running as long as the generator runs?

[@MyGeorg13]

this is BEAUTIFUL nice project plz more on it :)

[@danielgagne485]

How did you wire that in? Was it in parallel? Drains on acceleration and recharge while breaking...full discharge basically each use.

[@ioni.4793]

Congratulations, great video! I love this stuff! Can you please tell where can we buy those components? I have an Ebike and i would like to give it a try. Thanks a lot and keep up with the great work!

[@bardenegri21]

You have to pre-charge it before connecting to the bike right? I would imagine it'd make a huge spark otherwise due to the low resistance (nearly a dead short). Or does your bms have a pre-charge function?

[@CrankinYoYo]

Regen advantage of taking quicker charge compared to battery? And Nitrous style power surge option?

[@Leafyfpv]

Man that is awesome.. Thanks for sharing, Props!!!

[@Luftbubblan]

Really cool :D I'm way too afraid of electricity to pull something like that off haha. Heck id probably not even want to be in the same room as that cap bank(Not that it looks bad built or anything). Looking forward to see some more videos of this epic build.

[@SoftmanCZ]

You probable answered somewhere, but I missed that. What is with that chain rubbing on the frame?

[@rodrocket8216]

Well described, thanks Curt.

[@asaturn]

Doing a similar (smaller) build on a vintage Vespa... going to try this and mount it in the unused space under the bench seat.

[@skonyc3164]

Amazing. Great job. 👍👍

[@juggernautherculesgarcia6076]

So pretty much I slice a little chunk of wire covering from the battery pack and can connect the ultra capacitor terminals to it or no?

[@absorbtheride]

Another great video guys! Can you pencil in for your final video when she's complete, can you explain a bit about yourselves, where the idea for this project came from? is Lord Curt a master electrician by trade? And is he a real lord lol. I'd like to know what gear he's on, he looks jacked lol. Also for final vid, full breakdown of specs, parts, 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed, range, and I'll be a happy man 👍 oh and how much to charge would be interesting data too I've really enjoyed watching this project grow. So close now fellas. Wonder what your next ev project will be 🙂

[@rofflestomp684]

Now that's a true FrankinBike. I'm just wondering if your gonna turn the front forks into Tesla coils next. But seriously, that is sweet! Good luck with the gearing.

[@nenobug]

Its Good bro...that's a real electric

[@aleksvan5035]

Can you post the links to the caps and the balance board thing? I have the same issue but with electric mountain board, can't feed the motors with enough amps😂

[@TheInja]

Yeah, I'll make a list!

[@Zomby_Woof]

Replace your battery.

[@jimmysyar889]

@@Zomby_Woof This is the right thing to do.

[@adamleemontgomery6606]

i have questiona about farads still. and how long do these things take to lose charge standing still static with no....stimuli or whatever?????

[@singaporeslav8960]

I'm still learning on Ebike stuff but what are the pros and cons of a supercapacitor? Because I'm setting it up for a 60v 12 inch hub motor

[@TheInja]

You probably won't need one. Supercaps are good if your battery can't supply a high number of amps (like full-throttle conditions) for enough time. Supercapacitors help supply the amps for longer. At least that's my understanding of it! Curt explains that in this video.

[@VforVoltageDIYEVbuilds]

When you series a capacitor your capacitance half's for each added in S. So... CT = 1/[(1/C1)+(1/C2)+....(1/CN)] so with 44 is series your capacitance is 11F... Have I misunderstood something or does this now seem completely redundant?

[@jimmysyar889]

Yes that's correct, but you need that 117 volt boost or it won't work. Also the equation is correct, but you're not really having for each added.

[@juggernautherculesgarcia6076]

Also idk if you noticed but your chain is laying in the frame behind the motor if the rear sprocket is smaller it will be perfect

[@sebmaziu9677]

Lord Curt is DA MVP!

[@nagrajjadhav5387]

Good Job man... 👆👌👌👍👍

[@alejandromendoza3646]

Would this theoretically boost the range of the bike?

[@sigmaoctantis_nz]

Interesting. I wouldn't say current is a limitation with lithium-ion batteries for most people. I get that you're using LiFePO4 which might not have the required current draw so a supercapacitor could help. I am wanting to build a 21s/24p pack that could realistically deliver 360 to 480 amps continuous (depending on what cells I use) and would be plenty to drive a high-power controller in an e-motorbike.

[@W4rH4wkXX]

lol ok... i need to know what the *BEEP* Lord Curt's day job is!!!!! a WEALTH of electrical info!!

[@TheInja]

Haha he actually took no formal education for this stuff. He's a biologist! He just started poking around in it himself and self-learned it.

[@W4rH4wkXX]

@@TheInja wwwhhhhhhaatttt 🤯🤯🤯 damn well done curt!!!!

[@TheInja]

@@W4rH4wkXX hahaha

[@fookutube501]

Would you need to put a rectifier on a battery to the cap?

[@olusijimark]

Where did you get those capacitor balance boards?

[@yodab.at1746]

Instant monster power 😁

[@davidstrancar7994]

Nice work

[@2losersinbasement]

Freak dude, I'm so excited for the next vid!

[@waelsghayer6374]

Amazing !

[@georgecummings7559]

I calculate .02KWH for the capacitor pack. That would equate to delivering 72KW for 1 second. However when the capacitor pack is in parallel with the battery pack I'm not sure how they are going to interact. At some point the current from the Caps will reverse and be sourced by the battery pack. So then you may be sucking power away from the motor. You really should model this on a computer and you will need to know the internal resistance of the Caps (ESR) and also of the lithium power pack and have a model for the load motor. Some current sensors for the CPAK and BPAK would give you a good idea of what's happening real time. You can buy some high wattage .01 ohm resistors and put those in series with the CPAK and BPAK and just measure the voltage across them to derive the current. Run this into a 2 channel hand held oscilloscope.

[@puckspirit2573]

Not EXACTLY first. There is a russian guy, one of my university teachers actually, who have built a super-capacitor e-bike last summer. At least so the newspapers told, i didn't see it in person. His reasoning for doing this was that the capacitor would charge during regenerative braking and discharge on acceleration

[@koreapop3004]

Your a beast 👏.

[@alphonsotate2982]

wow powerful!

[@Minecraftfinestderik]

Are super capacitors as dangerous as battery’s ? Explosion wise

[@hazorbautista5129]

Hi can i use that with no BMS

[@ELECTRICBIKEDIYLIFE]

Super capacitors explained simplified version: Find yourself a "Curt" and have him build one, lol.

[@eyangelosmixalopoulos2740]

Very few electric motorcycle converters use Supercapacitors for their builds so this is a very good instructional video! Please enable the subtitles and also add the build in the www.evalbum.com/ so the community could benefit from your knowledge.

[@Zomby_Woof]

Thats because its not that hard to build a battery that will saturate the controller.

[@jimmysyar889]

@@Zomby_Woof Exactly, you have like 10-15 cells in parallel and with a high power cell, that's more than enough current capability.

[@custommotor]

What's with the chain resting on the frame?

[@awsomedude9111]

Want to see what your top speed is and if it did a big difference

[@perrymickle424]

brilliant.

[@davidgriffin79]

Interesting; so like capacitors in a linear power supply, they're there to reduce voltage sag (which would be ripple, due to rectification, in a linear supply) here I would imagine, when there's a momentary spike in current demand.

[@katiekumcgil]

did you end up sorting out how the chain was hitting the frame ,

[@katiekumcgil]

as we could clearly hear it when you accelarated ,

[@ianbreaksthings4858]

Do you have to worry about balancing/lifespan of the individual caps? *Edit* oops, I should have waited!!

[@ianbreaksthings4858]

Nevermind! He explained it :D

[@perrymickle]

no bi directional electrical transformer?

[@Menalix]

How does it not mess up batteries when in parallel at not the exact same voltage as battery?

[@asandei4185]

It would have been amazing if you have used some skelcap supercap. The 500F one has 7.6 times less ESR than the one that you chose.

[@aevanmangaba4959]

Sir i have electric bike. My battery is 72v 80Ah, can i put capacitor in it? How many, and spec of capacitor? Thank a lot.

[@aevanmangaba4959]

My battery is lithium sir.

[@jimmysyar889]

don't need one

[@edgreen2692]

This is a super capacitor, not a supercapacitor. A supercapacitor is a very specific technology. Regardless, awesome video!

[@littodee8529]

Wow!

[@KetansaCreatesArt]

4:21 Swagging physique for camera 😎🤓

[@adamleemontgomery6606]

do i need to use a diode????? nothin fancy. steam punk me. no computerchips. only physical mechanical parts.

[@nunyabusiness2191]

Links to the parts would be good. Also balance board doesn't bypass but just turn on resistors to balance

[@adamleemontgomery6606]

im trying to run consistently my segway scooter. swapping lithium for capacitors and dc generator motors. i found a 220v dc generator the size of small bar of soap. i have queationa about amperage....and capacitive discharge. i havent legitimately studied anything since 1997.

[@ELECTRICMOTOCROSSMACHINE]

super capacitors can discharge all at once. very powerful, very deadly. Please be careful to make sure you don't get killed. DO NOT EVER HANDLE A FULLY CHARGED BANK.Even partially charged can kill you. Good luck. P.S. How is the bench press going?

[@naveenv996]

ElectroBoom hell yeah.... ☠️☠️☠️

[@salexkorsan8790]

How manny KM it can run a bike ??

[@danielgagne485]

I've had this idea for 10 years. I just started my build. Got donor bike all stripped now planning battery

[@loginMSInfo]

Why didn't you use 16v capacitors?

[@adamleemontgomery6606]

im gonna use 3 d.c. motors. 2 12v dc motors poering eachother, and the one in thw middle spinning a spur and sprocket belt on that 220v d.c. motor. i gotta find the right motor to send electricity to that power inverter and whwn im uaimg onw of these three motor assemblies on my segway those capacitors.

[@juggernautherculesgarcia6076]

How many kilowatts is that like 50-70kw?

[@juggernautherculesgarcia6076]

That would quadruple my range now the problem I see is that would be like 400 amps and my controller only covers 750 amps

[@akshay.kumar.k]

4:17 300* watts for 1 hr, right?

[@AusMotorcycleAdventures]

how many rolls of tape did you go through for this?

[@jayaznpride]

So you're telling me with these capacitors Lord Curt created time travel? 🤯⏳🏍

[@TheInja]

Hahaha

[@mtm5143]

You should convert it to belt drive, it would be so much quieter

[@CopperHeadProjects]

well now i just what a super capacitor for a dirt bike

[@emotodude]

Eventually you'll realize that a better battery is the right solution

[@theephemeralglade1935]

Steel is real! (Heavy)

[@mattridge5986]

🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@mebeasensei]

I see what you are doing here - you are fortifying your patent claims by putting your tech on YT! Nice...(I don't know if it will work - but why not?) Cool and really cool work. been following for ages. EDIt:: I don't have a clue what I am talking about. I just did a websearch and ultra or super capicitors have been a feature of electric vehicles for years...I found this too..(no idea what it means) ... The minimum amount of capacitors and therefore the minimum mass of the ultracapacitor string can be achieved when specifying the maximum operating current to be the rated current of the ultracapacitor. However, the maximum current affects the sizing of the power electronics and when the masses of both the ultracapacitor string and power electronics are combined, the minimum system mass can occur at currents less than the rated ultracapacitor current.

[@EsoxLVCIVS6776]

I would make an acrylic tank for it with a tesla coil inside.