How to build a Water heater to run on Free fuel.

[@Kek5kopF]

Man, I shoud make a video of our 2000 gallon pool heater. We took an old radiator heater, attached a pump to get the pool water cycling through an just threw the radiator on a camp fire. Works great.

[@gordonstorey6921]

I have been tinkering with something for about a year now. I wanted to build the most efficient outdoor boiler I could , and then pipe the heated liquid to wherever I wanted to use it inside my home , or outside aka hydronic heating coils in a poured concrete driveway to melt snow and ice off in the winter. I experimented with a wood stove. Not cheap to run , and very inefficient. I built a rocket stove. Not enough btu's to keep up with demand. Once I came across your Oil Burner site , I knew I had found my answer. I did build one similar to yours , using a domestic hot water tank , but I noted that a lot of the heat was still just going up the chimney. After several different attempts I think I have come across the most efficient way to heat the water . Here is what I have concocted. My goal was to build the smallest and most fuel efficient burner first. After experimenting with several different size tanks , I have ended up with a small propane tank ( about 6 litre capacity ) nested inside a slightly larger one ( about a 10 litre ). The anular space between the two is filled with perilite insulation. The output is a 3 1/2 inch diameter pipe about 6 inches long , coming out of the top of the oil burner. It sits below my heat exchanger and water tank , and can be removed at any time for cleaning simply by pulling a 1 inch spacer plate out from under it and droping it down. The 3 1/2 inch pipe fits snugly into the flared end of another 1 1/2 foot piece of 3 1/2 inch pipe which is centered inside a piece of 4 inch pipe which is 3 feet long. The gap between the 3 1/2 inch pipe and the 4 inch pipe allows a flow of secondary air into the burn , increasing efficiency and temperature. The 3 foot piece of pipe is welded into the middle of 4 foot tall acetylene tank ( about 7 inches in diameter ) and terminates about 6 inches from the top of that tank. At the bottom of the acetylene tank a 6 inch hole has been cut in the side where piece of 6 inch pipe comes out and then up to 2 feet above the rest of the unit. ( that is my chimney ) The acetylene tank is welded into the center of a 100 pound ( 120 litre ) propane tank. The entire unit is wrapped in insulation. So , how does it work ? The flame and hot gasses from the oil burner shoot up into the top of the acetylene tank , and then drop back down to the bottom (around the outside of the 4 inch pipe ) , then exit the acetylene tank and go up the chimney. The acetylene tank itself becomes a giant heating element in the center of the water filled propane tank. The hot at the top / cold at the bottom liquid in the tank actually help the convection of the air flow downward toward the exhaust exit ( chimney ). The chimney also helps the air flow , as the heat ( what's left of it ) rises up and out. I am about 60% complete with the build , still have to weld the water reservoir to the outside of the acetylene tank , but with spring in the air it probably won't get fully assembled until October. What I have found was that the very tiny burner tank was not performing very well until I put it inside the larger tank , with insulation. It just wasn't heating up enough. I am using a very small squirrel cage blower ( about 3 inches diameter , 60 watts ) because that was all I had available at the time. I thought it wouldn't be big enough , but it is doing just fine. I do believe that once the entire contraption is complete , I will probably have to go to a slightly more forceful blower. During my experiments , I was using a trickle of oil with good results. Now , with the small insulated tank I am finding that even with an oil flow of only 3 drips per second , I am getting a constant blow torch type flame about 2 feet tall . I kind of scared myself on one test , the bigger it got the more I reduced the oil feed. The more I reduced the oil feed , the bigger it got. I ended up shutting the whole thing down , because it seemed to be getting somewhat out of control. The end result so far is that I am getting a ton of heat with not very much airflow and a tiny amount of oil. If the heat exchange works 1/2 as well as I am expecting it to , I think I will have surpassed my goals. The entire system will self drain into a 40 gal hot water tank inside my home , so that I don't have to add glycol. My local government regulates hydronic heating systems if they use glycol . ( environmental worries ) . A thermostatically controlled circulation pump will regulate the flow (and thus the temprature) of the water. The downdraft flow in the acetylene tank was part of the rocket stove theory that I had experimented with , and it works. While I was producing a very hot blue flame at the top of the combustion riser , the exhaust coming out of the chimney was cool enough to put your hand over comfortably.

[@coburnlowman]

I would like to see pictures of your build. Trying to build it in my mind as reading your description I think I'm close but a real pic or best a video on would be great. Reply back and I'll give my Email address for more info on your build. Thanks.

[@gordonstorey6921]

+Phil Lowman : it is in pieces , burried in my basement right now. Can send you a nice descriptive drawing right away , and maybe clean up the basement and drag the parts outside for a video demo next week. Never did finish it , have summer projects to work on right now. Will get back to it , and hopefully finish before the cold comes back in October.

[@gordonanddarlene]

+Phil Lowman Uploaded a picture , click on my name and you should be able to view it.

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

You're about ready to heat that hot tub.. 92* C = 197.6* F for those wondering.. I'd like to see this set up with another tank on top. Also some twisting baffles inside the heat tube of the tank. I believe it would raise the efficiency quite a bit. Of course this would be more for heating a large body of water and is for experimental testing, but just imagine if you had enough surface for all that heat produced to be absorbed!! Now, onto the steam powered generator.... ;)

[@glumpy10]

Steve 1961P. The heater has Diffuser baffles inside the flue already which as you say, would raise the efficiency a lot. I was thinking of running a jacketed flue above the tank. Just an inch or 2 gap between the flue and an outer wall to run water through but then was wondering exactly how many KW it would be worth in the end. I'll be overpowering the heater no matter how small a burner I run compared to what it was designed for with gas. That will probably mean there is some worthwhile heat that could be captured coming out the flue. I'd like to find a larger heater as that would have a higher rating and better suited for what I want but for now I'll make the most of what I have and see what comes along.

[@havocdaemon]

Excellent domestic application. Thanks for uploading! Your vids are inspiring!

[@glumpy10]

havocdaemon Thanks for the kind words. Glad you are enjoying them!

[@Loveeveryonealittlemore]

Nice! Keep the videos coming!

[@alexthomas2953]

Is it a copper coil inside that’s heating the water or just the empty void of the tank, full of water that’s being heated? I se so many of these type of things that just fill a,copper coil full ofmwater then shone it in and out at tip like to heat a hot up. And I don’t know, why the don’t just fill,a,drum that’s heated and syphonns in and out without having to us s log and costly copper coil.

[@glumpy10]

These heaters normally have a gas burner underneath that I have removed. There is basicaly a hollow tube that runs straight up the middle and the water surrounds that. The burner acts on the base of the tank and there is a baffle up the centre tube which creates turbulence and extracts more heat due to greater surface area. I have made comment in later vids that every water heating vid on YT requires the use of a Copper coil when it's clear many don't even understand what the physics of using one are. I cringe when I see people trying to heat swimming pools with a coil of 3/4 copper over an open fire and claiming it's doing something worth while. Yeah Right. Would be FAR better to lay a 200L Drum on it's side supported off the ground by Cinderblocks and light a fire under it. Would be LOADS more effective than a copper coil but people don't understand the principals involved and just copy what they have seen elsewhere.

[@kbbacon]

Hook the output to a radiator and heat the house. That's my plan. Good vid!

[@glumpy10]

kbbacon That's EXACTLY my plan Kevin. I'm building a new Modest power burner I can run off the 12V Bilge blower and looking at a hi/low fuel rate. I'm considering putting a 2nd radiator under the house to keep the floors warm and also use that as a heat dump to stop the system over heating and tripping the safety valve. I'll run a header tank as well so the system runs in an open configuration at nil pressure. I have a solar water heater circulation pump but I think I may need something a bit stronger. When I tested the system before the radiator could pull every bit of heat out of the water too easily. Need to pump it through faster to balance the capability of the burner.

[@kbbacon]

It is going to be a challenge!

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

kbbacon Some vids are on the tube that do exactly that, but OB burners are all way too large for the small amount needed to continuously put heat through a radiator. Unless you had a monster of a fan blowing air through the rad, but then it would be to windy and noisy to enjoy the heated space! Years ago, "for shits and giggles," we put a coil of 1/2 inch copper inside a small propane grill and ran it to a crappy car radiator. We did this all inside of a shop that was about 30 by 30 and 14 foot ceilings. We used the 12 volt electric fans from the same car along with it's shrouding. With just 1 of the burners on it was capable of keeping a nice flow of heat through the rad. This was more of a SOMETHING TO DO than real experiment as I had a waste oil burner already installed for my regular heat. But, it would probably work fine if not for opening 12 X 12 overhead doors in the cold winters along Lake Ontario.

[@SteveP-vm1uc]

Oil Burner OB, I also have a solar water heater pump that I'd like to put to use. Are you saying it doesn't move enough volume to bother with? I have never checked the GPM. Fact is, it is so far down on my list of things I need to do I have never even looked it up.

[@OgMandin0]

Steve 1961P. A copper coil is a lousy *tube* *boiler*. Wiki it... Heating a vessel of water produces a better volume of hot water. OB is working on a hot water system to heat his house. A demand system with a heating mode (when the heat needs to run) and a "pilot mode" (when it is not needed.)

[@katecoombes1000]

This video answered about 10 questions. Can do a gas bottle on top of gas bottle furnace with waste oil burner. Bit bigger set up but it burns hotter than gas.

[@phil600616]

I've been trying to build something for the past couple months to help supplement my outdoor wood boiler system (non-pressurized), with decreasing luck. My setup is an 50gal ELECTRIC water heater tank core (with the spray insulation removed) concentrically mounted inside of a 55gal steel drum, so this leaves about a 3/4" -1" gap between the tank and the drum. It has a convex bottom, so I figured the heat up rise up and sorta get trapped under it. Have been trying the drip feed oil into a vessel with the air coming through the center and back down into the vessel ALA GerrysDIY, but all those burners either leak or don't burn even. My first attempt was the best, but i could not get any of the heat into the water tank. Not sure if I am not creating enough heat (although i can heat the garage its in up to 80F), or if it is the wrong vessel I am trying to heat, or if everything is simply just escaping through the chimney. Was only using a 120mm PC fan so i'm sure I'm not getting enough air, even though it isn't too smoky. It just doesn't seem like the water temp is increasing. I am going to try your design of a more closed burn chamber with a nozzle at the top, underneath the tank. I was also thinking of adding a matrix of 3/4" steel pipe that made 3-4 loops in the bottom of the barrel around the burn vessel before going back into the tank to try to soak up as much heat as possible. I may do that still because I can't see it making it any LESS efficient than it already is. Was also thinking of welding a plate to the bottom of the tank to create more of a baffle to retain as much flame under the tank for as long as possible. Thanks for all the informative videos! If anyone could shed light as to why my tank is not taking in heat I would appreciate it!

[@stevenmark8156]

I’m no expert, but it I’ll take a stab at it. On the gas hot water heaters like he used in this video, it has a chimney going up thru the center of the heater and out the top. That would give a lot of surface area for the heat to transfer to the water. I would guess that’s the difference. You posted this a year ago and I just saw it. Did you ever get it to work efficiently?

[@phil600616]

@@stevenmark8156 I got it to work eventually but the 55gal drum does not work well for the burn area and was very leaky, which had two problems: one was getting it to updraft through the (too short) chimney and the second was losing the draft and backdrafting into the shop getting soot everywhere. I plan on replacing the drum with another water heater and welding it air tight. Basically GerryDIY's design but with a sealed water heater on the top of another and maybe a coil of water line on top of the flame area. If it works I will post about it on my channel, I was just about to start to work on it again.

[@stevenmark8156]

@@phil600616 Great! Hope it works well for you. I’m going to try one too. I have the pex tubing in my shop floor with 3” of insulation under the concrete. . Hoping to be able to heat it with a waste oil boiler. Once it’s hot the concrete will hold the heat for quite a while. So I can shut down the burner. I’ve been looking at different designs, so I’m always interested in what works and what doesn’t. I had originally planned on buying a propane on demand water heater, but free is lots better!! Lol

[@lynthie8920]

Great video, and nice to see something productive come out of the whole waste oil burning thing besides metal scrapping. I must say, I kind of miss granny's chamber pot. As an American, I want to ask for a bit of translation. I'm not gonna go so far as to ask for a Fahrenheit temp, as most Americans that are worth a darn will know that conversion, but could you preach to us the horsepower to kilowatt ratio ? I know it, but I'm sick of explaining it to my friends.

[@glumpy10]

Lynthie 1Kw is 1.34 HP. This setup would do around 13 to 26 HP. I might dig grannys chamber pot out again. It's looking kind of worse for wear these days though. Can't understand why they just didn't make them better to stand up to 200KW Burners??

[@dejanbelec8611]

👍

[@ybaggi]

for 120L of water to go from 20 deg (assumed ambient outside temp) to 100 deg requires 80*120~=10000 joules. If as you say it took 20min (1200s), the water heats up at about 800W. or it can absorb energy at that rate. If you think the burner gives out about 10kW, So it's roughly about 8% efficient.. Not too surprising with all the opne flame and no insulation around the tank. Thanks a lot for the awesome build and measurment numbers. Correction: sorry, wrong units t take on kCal to heat 1L of water by 1deg... not one Joule. and 1000kCal = 1.163kWh = 4 187kJoules so let's do this again: 80deg water temp rise: 80*4.187= 3349,440Joules in 1200 seconds: 3349,440/1200 = 2791, say 2,800 kW? is that right? will have to look at the whole thing again ....

[@glumpy10]

Yves Baggi 8% efficient doesn't sound far from the mark. I have crunched the numbers on similar things before and the efficiency is always amazing in how low it is. I'd guess this thing may be as high as 20% efficent being the sesign it is but the burner largely overpowers its design rating which wastes a lot of heat. One thing I can absoloutley assure you, that burner was NOT doing 2800 kw! :0) So far my best effort is 600 Kw and knowing what that is, 2800Kw would be really something! It would be a bit hard to work out exactly because it was varying in output but I guess you could get an average. I know when I had it hooked up to the house I ran the thing too hard and had the water boiling and gushing out the safety valve in about 15 min. I was not expecting it to heat up near that fast which was why I was leaning into it to get it up to temp in a timely manner. From memory, the water was pretty warm coming out the tap in this vid and was around 27o being summer here in Oz when I shot this.

[@RadioTrefoil]

Yves Baggi You mean 3,349,400J/1200s = 2,800 watts not kilowatts. Remember a watt is a j.s^-1

[@OgMandin0]

Very nice experiment! Of course it sets my mind to racing: "How to install electric water heater thermostats and lean out the burner when the tanks is full of hot water..." =If it's not ONE thing it's ANOTHER... You are already solving this dilemma for a forced air/radiator heating system. THANKS FOR ALL THE HARD WORK!!! I watch in AMAZEMENT at what you accomplish. Can't understand why 'hands in pockets' **kibitzers** state your efficiency is only X% or "MY propane/coil of copper system did better than THIS! The point is, the OIL IS ALMOST FREE!!! It can be .01% efficient and still be more cost effective than propane. Could heat your water, home and swimming pool not to mention the *hot tub* ESSENTIAL for gratuitous, fondling, heavy breathing and *EXTREME pleasure!!!* :o)

[@glumpy10]

OgMandin0 HAHA! I think most people have a sense of doing the best they can even with hacked together projects like I'm doing. I understand the efficiency is not as important with free fuel as when you are paying for it but still you have to give things a decent go. :0) I'd like to make it as efficient as practical from my engineering and cost POV just the same. One thing I have worked out is a reason to aim for efficiency is fuel consumption and qty needed. I do have to collect the oil and it gets harder to get in winter. Working on 2L hr consumption 12-15 hrs a day, it does add up and you begin to realize how much you are going to have to get. If I find I need to burn 4L an hour to get the required heat into the home, then the thing is going to be a burden to get enough fuel for. I was getting oil in 1000L IBC's and more than I wanted, but that source came to an abrupt end when the guy giving it to me changed jobs so I'm back to collecting in my vehicle 200L at a time. This thing will only be worthwhile if it's not going to take up an inordinate amount of time so the less fuel I need to burn to keep the place warm, the less time I'll spend in the cold collecting fuel for it! :0) I would have stocked up more in summer but I was planning to move house so didn't want tons of the stuff around and just kept a small reserve for my vehicle. I'll be here a bit longer now and will need to collect oil as I go for this.

[@hrc1956197]

hey burner as you know my burner is getting way to hot. Do you have any ideas on dropping the temp on it I was running 50% diesel and 50% waste engine oil. Hank

[@glumpy10]

henry christ Just vary the fuel and air flow. You have a powerful little blower there, try restricting the intake with a bit of cardboard and reduce the fuel flow accordingly. Looks like you could get a lot more power turning the fuel up and leaving the air wide open.

[@iqbalariga]

1 liter waste oil burner... how long the burner can hold the fire ??

[@jeffcameron3192]

Hi OB, like ya vids! What is the burner vessel used in this video? Also is it blowing straight into the vessel, ie no pot inside?

[@mirriulahwaterdog]

G'day mate... thats one wild heater there. I'm doing something a little quieter by putting the tank ontop of half a 44 drum and lighting a fire under it (old days 'donkey'). Wondered if you kept the baffle in the flue as friends knock my idea saying the 75mm flue with baffle is too restrictive.

[@arjanwilbie2511]

I thought i was the one for safety tips? Ok... Here goes. Do not use the water tank you are heating as a bathtub. :) enjoy it while it is addictive.

[@NaughtyGoatFarm]

Hey mate. Im looking at building a waste vege oil burner something like this to heat pool water. Thinking of using a coil of copper pipe inside a large gas bottle with drip feed burner and blower. Thoughts?

[@glumpy10]

I think Copper Coils are extremely inefficient in heating water, particularly the amounts needed for even a small Pool. Look up some online water heater calculators and see the amount of energy required to raise the temp of the amount of water in your pool. I am using a spa heater with an oil burner replacing the gas Burner. This has a 100Kw Capacity and the size of the heat exchanger is 2" . That's a lot different to say 3/4 or even 1" as is the heat absorption. The trick here is not the amount of heat generated, it's the amount of heat you can transfer into the water you want to heat. Also one needs to have an idea of the heat loss from the surface of the pool and the sides. I have seen a lot of Vids on running water through a copper loop to heat a pool and claims of the temp increase but practical experience and the online calculators suggest that the heat loss in a lot of these cases is greater than the heat input. My suggestion is find an old spa or pool heater that the electronics have gone on and replace the gas burner with an oil burner and plumb that in. You could get 50-200Kw into you pool depending on the size of the unit you convert where you would be doing very well to get 5Kw with a copper coil which cannot compete with a properly designed heat exchanger.

[@NaughtyGoatFarm]

@@glumpy10 Thank you so much for your thoughts. I had never thought of converting a gas pool heater. Ill see if i can find something cheap! Thanks for the idea. Most helpful.

[@builtrodewreckedit]

Very nice. My oil burner is almost built and i ordered a crucible yesterday... My latest project (Line Boring) just finished with great success and ill be on to melting some aluminum with your design hopefully really soon. Your welcome to check out my line boring video if your at all interested in crap like that ill post new video's when i start burning stuff

[@glumpy10]

builtrodewreckedit Had a look at your line bore vid, Excellent! Can't wait to see what you come up with for the burner!

[@builtrodewreckedit]

Oil Burner Thanks again for the kind words... Im happy to be on to the open flames now...allot less critical measurements i hope

[@bernadettehusch599]

you can use inplix instructions to build it yourself guys.

[@16vastraturbo]

That's more then a 10kw flame....

[@mostismail9638]

I couldn't get what kind of oil , you mean waste food oil , or someother

[@glumpy10]

most ismail Yes, Waste vegetable oil. What the restaurants throw out when it's no longer fit for cooking in. You can also use old engine or transmission oil. Any liqud oil or fat will work fine.

[@dhanrajd]

DEGPD5100B

[@bossnimbus]

make hot air balloon

[@glumpy10]

+nimbus229 boss I was wondering about using one of these burners for that but the gas burners they use are incredible, something like 2000Kw! Would make even my 600KW burner look feeble. I'll have to get onto making something with more grunt.