How to End the Ukraine War | NonZero World Feat. Anatol Lieven

[@Nonzero]

Click here to see an exclusive Overtime segment of this episode: nonzero.substack.com/p/how-to-end-the-ukraine-war-nonzero

[@maxheadrom3088]

Anatol Lieven - always great to hear him!

[@mellowEsko]

He does have a lovely voice also! 😊

[@TheFirstTheLast-g4t]

this is the most non-biased and accurate analysis i find ! surprised that you guys don't get higher rating. some more thoughts: - demilitarization means no military threat to Russia by way of NATO membership, foreign troops in Ukraine and limits on Ukrainian army - denazification means no hostile political policies/ actions against Russia and the Russian-speaking community in Ukraine

[@FR-dz4kb]

Pretty obvious that those are non starter demands of a sovereign nation state.

[@sergeylazurenko6263]

Makes more sense that Russia should have a limited military. Ukraine is not invading it's neighbors.

[@TheFirstTheLast-g4t]

@@sergeylazurenko6263 if you apply the same logics around then you will disarm the US first 🙂

[@Kennyaj123]

Have you guys considered capitalizing the ‘O’ at the end so at least it’s symmetrical? NonZerO? I kid. Very strong thumbnail. Menacing, even. Looking forward to the discussion.

[@maxheadrom3088]

21:00 That's what Matt Taibbi has been saying since his book "Hate Inc." was published.

[@joshuapaul2022]

It's wishful thinking from Anatol. Putin stated his conditions for even starting negotiations quite clearly. 1. Full Ukrainian withdrawal from the regions that are included in Russian constitution; 2. Recognition and acceptance from Ukraine that these regions are Russian; 3. Acceptance of Ukraine's neutral status. Russians categorically rejected any freeze of the conflict Korea-style. These conditions can get only tougher by the time.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

Literally half of those are NON-NEGOTIABLES/NON-STARTERS for UKRAINE itself. One of the most non negotiables is that Ukraine will NEVER "accept" or "fully recognize" the areas ceded as being fully "Russian"... cause what's to say Russia won't just run it back again in a decade (once they've had time to rebuild/arm/train/outfit), especially when their other non-negotiable of 'neutral status' means they won't have any sort of meaningful security guarantee, lol

[@merocaine]

It was my understanding Putin said that the Istanbul agreements already negotiated should form the basis of any future peace agreement. Having said that, I don't Russia will start negotiating until they have all 4 regions fully under their control. Military victory first, negotiation second.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

@@merocaine Do you HONESTLY think that anyone would be dhumbh enough to let Putin back across the Dnipro 'just' to fulfill the 'contractually binding' legal documents making "all 4 regions fully under their control"? At best, Ukraine would cede the some land to the East of the small river south of Kupiansk... but ain't nobody letting Russian forces back across a body of water as meaningful as the Dnipro, lol

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

@@merocaine Also, can you actually fully specifically define exactly what "Military victory first" is?

[@merocaine]

@@JohnDorian-j7x Taking the 4 oblasts annexed in there entirety.

[@maxheadrom3088]

38:42 The city of Prudentópolis, in the state of Paraná, here in Brazil, has 75% of its population from Ukrainian background. Ukrainian is a co-official language for the municipality and all official documents and communications are produced in both Portuguese and Ukrainian. I really never understood these prohibition of languages being used. My linguistic dream was to be born in Switzerland or Luxembourg because there they speak some 4 or 5 languages by the time they leave high school.

[@sergeylazurenko6263]

Oreshnik is not the first time that Russia used nuclear capable rocket in Ukraine. Iskanders are nuclear capable too.

[@yumingzhao5577]

Lieven’s symbolic de-Nazification statement is practical, and in the same vein, Ukrainians 10-20 years not joining nato should be accepted by Rus as a practical measure. This is all because Rus inability to achieve total victory right now.

[@edvsilas8281]

@yumingzhao5577 The reason that we have a Ukraine is that of NATO expansion . WIth the Russians winning in this war of attrition , why, in God's name ,would the Russians settle with restarting another war over NATO expansion twenty years from now !

[@sergeylazurenko6263]

After Anatol Lieven the next logical step would be to invite Aleksandr Dugin

[@johnelbare8237]

It looks like all US policy will be descending into absurdity in 2025. Buckle up.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

Examples?

[@maxheadrom3088]

I know a researcher at the leading public funded research institution on agriculture, EMBRAPA, who uses a DJi drone for his research.

[@alexl4342]

38:00 what Ukrainian would ever feel comfortable going to an all Ukrainian school inside Russian borders? Russia could throw everybody in that school in prison by calling them terrorists at any time.

[@stuartwray6175]

Post February 2014, it was Ukrainian ultranationalists regarding the people of Russian speaking eastern regions, such as Donetsk, Luhansk as terrorists. That's the exact terminology Right-Sector used on they're website at the time. Right-Sector claimed to have coordinated the Odessa Trade Unions Building massacre. They also played a central role in the Maidan massacre according to the verdict handed down on Oct 18th 2023, by the Shviotoshyn District Court in Kiev/Kyiv. Commander-in-chief Zaluzhnyi hired Dmytro Yarosh, the former leader of Right-Sector, as his personal advisor in 2021.

[@unknownsoldier452]

@@stuartwray6175 All this is irrelevant and has nothing to do to with the fact that Russian invasion of Ukraine has been far worse for Russian speaking community than any actions that Ukraine took since 2014.

[@Brian-bw3uu]

There was no Bucharest Agreement of 1992. There was the Budapest Memorandum of 1994. And I just stopped the video and went and read the entire thing. There is not a word in there about Ukrainian neutrality. So I'd really like to know where your guest gets off claiming that "people forget there were two aspects to the Bucharest Agreement of 1992...One was that Ukraine would give up it's nuclear missiles, but the other was that Ukraine wrote neutrality into its Constitution." Kind of crazy when it doesn't say a word about that in the Memorandum. But please prove me wrong Also, de-Nazification is not about passing laws against Nazi imagery or political parties. It's about killing pro-independence Ukrainians and bringing the rest of the nation back into the Russian fold. They're obviously far from achieving that, but that's what Putin means Finally even if Putin agrees to talks, it doesn't mean he's not committed to total victory. It just means he needs a temporary cessation of hostilities to help him finish the job later, when geopolitical conditions are more advantageous Besides these things your guest gives a mostly fair analysis

[@TheFirstTheLast-g4t]

There was no formal requirement of neutrality. But the rule of this universe says if you are protecting sb, he is not supposed to go against you. NATO is - as everybody know and despite however people may deny - effectively an anti-Russian organization. So Ukraine seeking NATO membership naturally voided any Russia's pledge of protection.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

Yeah, anyone who doesn't think that Putin (or even just Russia in general) won't invade Ukraine again later on down the line, has no idea what they're talking about. That's why any sort of agreement without a SOLID "security agreement" for Ukraine is basically a non-starter. Remember, Russia would be perfectly fine if "neutrality" was violated by Ukraine, if, it was in favor of Russia... you know, kind of like it was for years and years prior, lol

[@fingerpickinggood]

True. Anatol lieven is another guy that i lost respect for. He was great on all things about Pakistan but on the russian ukraine war he is a disaster

[@tertiusduplessis2581]

Yep, maybe this guy should go to Ukraine and show us the so-called nazis. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@tertiusduplessis2581]

True. He should go to Ukraine and pinpoint the so called 'derogative name' people. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@tyrantonion6660]

Anatol, why does Russia need peace negotiations? Ukraine is a security risk and will be dealt with once and for all. The western wishful thinking will not play a role anymore in this matter. The Russians will not burden their children and grand children with an unresolved ukraine crisis.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

How will this time's "once and for all" be any different from any other "one and for alls" in the past quarter millennium?

[@tyrantonion6660]

@@JohnDorian-j7x I can't even send you an answer because of the youtube censorship.

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

@@tyrantonion6660 Try again, this time putting the "bad" words that trip up the algorithm inside of "quotes". I find that helps get past the auto algo

[@TheLouisisawesome]

Genocidal talk

[@tyrantonion6660]

​@@TheLouisisawesome There is a phenomenon in the west that we are increasingly seeing, that people accuse others of the crimes they themselfes or their allies have committed (confession through projection). you can see it best in gaza, if you have even a shred of decency and humanity in you. You could also see it in the Middle East. The umbrella term was: War on Terror. The consequences of this moral sin is the migrant crisis in europe.

[@tyrantonion6660]

Do we europeans have a say in if Ukraine can join us or not? Or is it just for the US and Russia to decide?

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

Obviously you do, lol... what do you think help get us into this situation in the first place?

[@edvsilas8281]

The Russians will never permit NATO in Ukraine . Europe has no say in the matter . NATO's largest donor is the USA . If you haven't notice ,Europe does whatever the US tells them . When has Europe ever done otherwise .

[@JohnDorian-j7x]

​@@edvsilas8281 Actually... Europe has direct say in the matter, lololol. If it was just "up to the USA", it would have happened back in 2005 or whatever... but it was EUROPE that directly and decided against the US's wishes, lmao

[@edvsilas8281]

@JohnDorian-j7x Actually , John , Europe reminds me of chihuahuas ,the more scared they are ,the more loudly they yap . None of their leaders have any cajones . What have they done against US wishes ? Why haven't they sent any troops to Ukraine ? To afraid of the Russians ?

[@stuartwray6175]

You recall what Victoria Nuland said? "F*ck the EU" Did the fact that George W.Bush failed to get the backing of Western European countries in his 2008 bid to bring Ukraine into NATO alter his intent of bringing Ukraine into NATO alignment? No. Neither did the fact that Ukrainian public opinion was overwhelmingly not in favour of such a move.

[@briandoyle3285]

No glasses!

[@ysteinvingerjohanssen2588]

Øystein