How to - Episode 6 - Install a point motor

Time for another how to vid
In this one I show how to fit a Seep PM1 point motor to a peco code 100 electrofrog point.

[@john-of-the-north]

About 13min in, excellent explanation of how electrofrog point works in terms of wiring and polarity.

[@ralphy46gizzmo]

Ohhhhhh! My error, after reviewing the video over n over i now clearly understand, it was my ignorance, U are using electrofrogs, its just that u further add better constant power so that no matter how dirty the inbetween faces of rail get....u still smoothly get thru..forgiv me for wasting ur time with this i trust ur knowledge n knew that id better review vid, now i got it thanx again to ur great instruction..Ralphy

[@jeffrigden4790]

Fantastic video, first class presentation. Electrics puts the fear of god into me, but you make it so easy. Keep up the great work. Jeff Rigden

[@adam.goodin]

This just made point wiring and electro frog points a whole lot simpler for me...thank you for sharing.

[@EverardJunction]

Adam Goodin Thanks. It can be a bit of a minefield!

[@andrewdenton8510]

Just found your video. Best one going and it now all becomes clear. Thanks for doing it. Andrew

[@ianharman3339]

Brilliant explanation. I'm just starting on a layout and will admit to already using your method for constructing the scenery. I've got electrofrog points but wasn't going to motorise them - however now that i've seen this I think I will - particularly as I intend to weather the track and so will be making the switching contact areas dirty! Much appreciated.

[@dmu1964]

that was a ace video very informitive and corect..you can drill a hole for the wire that comes off the frog before fitting the point to the basebored,and solder a wire to it under the base bored

[@EverardJunction]

Yes thats correct. I'm slowly working my way around the layout fitting motors to points that have been in place for over 2 years. As long as the hole is big enough you shouldn't have any problems.

[@Gus-jb8cm]

Good work on this layout. It really is coming along very well. 👍😊👍👍

[@JOHNALANKAIN]

THANKS FOR THE POINTS VIDEO AS ALWAYS YOU MAKE IT LOOK SO STRAIGHT FORWARD

[@MrSteve666999]

understood, but on the same piece of track the very next point seep motor was the other way around ie D to 12+ DCC supply and E to 0V - DCC that totally confused me. Is it to do with which way the polarity switch is sitting (left or right) when you first install it?

[@EverardJunction]

I use heat shrink for the connectors. The spades are clamped on using pliers.

[@EverardJunction]

@slendersausage I did, attaching the wires into the blue crimp blade splicers is wiring them to the rest of the layout. As said 2 wires go to DCC + and - the other 2 are DC + and - to operate the switch. Everyone's layout wiring is slightly different so I focused the vid on the motor itself as this was what most people were asking about.

[@robsideshowbob73]

Great video , better than the professional DVDs I've got explaining this , thank you

[@EverardJunction]

@ps3nut17 Thanks. I've just had a quick look and the hornby select has 4 sockets on the back. 2 are for the track, the other 2 are a 15v dc supply, you can use that to power the point motors.

[@williamhawkes7437]

I think for a rank amateur like me the point motors are very daunting especially with all the technical information that you have added in here... what I guess I needed was a very simple...." this goes here, this goes here and that goes there" video.... this is still a bit daunting.

[@trainrover]

:) Passionate at modelling with a FLAIR for clear and steady presenting .. quel bon homme!

[@EverardJunction]

@itgamer100 The dcc + - goes to the motor and gives the track power. To make the motor move i use the dc 12v. DCC is AC voltage and must only be used to power the track either directly or through a polarity switch on a point motor. Peco do make points the same size of the basic hornby ones, i don't know if they do electrofrog ones though.

[@AndyHudson-ModelRailwayBuilds]

Hi Richard first 2 point motors installed easy really thanks to this tutorial :-) 26 more on the fiddle yard :-( to go, will be an expert after this little lot

[@josephmeko6238]

When I was doing all the Switch Wiring on my HO Layout, I bought a Spool of Computer Wire with 25 wire's Across the Strip they put a RED Wire every FIVE ( 5 ) wires which makes it easy, First at one end I found the red wire which is five lines, I made a small cut and pulled the wire( to save time you can make your Cuts every 5 wires ) for pulling, you might ask why 5, first off they are easy to find and pull, when I have 5 lines I made another cut at 3 which I used for all my switch's very easy with the Center and two sides for Left and Right with the Center being the Common Line. Very easy as long as you KEEP the Line FLAT, At each end I placed a piece of masking tape with R-C-L at each end, very helpful for LONG Wire Run's, Now with the 2 remaining lines I used them for all my AC lines like Light's and What Not's, and the Computer Wire Comes in Very Long Rolls, which will get you to a lot of Point's, like wiring a Yard and More. Don't let the Price Scare you because you will be getting a lot of wire for you money, and it is totally worth it, in wire and trouble, and Have Fun.

[@EverardJunction]

Joseph Meko PC ribbon cable is very useful, I've seen it used on various layouts. Very useful in complex areas.

[@french160762]

Hi there Everard Junction Thanks for that I now understand. I am hoping to have a video up onto you tube at the end of feb or the beginning of march and I will thank you in the video for all your help. I will recommend your channel too Thanks for everything Martin

[@bluephantom2044]

I have used a similar way but I use just three wires to the motor as I'm just starting out and won't to get it all going so I have the + and - going to the point motor and then the frog wire and it seems to work I need to switch it by hand but it's working and it allows me to upgrade it in my own time

[@EverardJunction]

The bus wires are the 2.5mm solid core wire you get out or ordinary grey building wire. I bought a reel from a diy shop and stipped the two wires out from inside.

[@lezza1975]

Just starting my lay out. Great vids full of loads of good info. Thanks

[@EverardJunction]

I get the smaller wire from rapid electronics. The bus wire is the 2.5mm solid core wire you get out or ordinary grey building wire. I bought a reel from a diy shop and stripped the two wires out from inside

[@EverardJunction]

The point motors I used in this video cost £4 each.

[@anthony566]

Thanks for putting that together... until now i didnt really understand the peco points so i went with Hornby and put the power clips on them for DCC 99% of my layout is Hornby track.

[@DeanPark]

See on your switch with the yellow and red wires...do you use black insulating tape at the connectors?, what are those black plasitc sleeves at the joins? I am wiring up lighting for a building and I am soldering the joins and then insulating them with black tape. Also, how did you attach the wires to the spade connectors?

[@EverardJunction]

A+B will go to you switch and cdu wiring. C is an earth wire, D+E need to go to you your DCC bus wires.

[@DeanPark]

Thanks. Where do you buy the heat shrink for connectors? My insulating tape is peeling off already and I only taped it up 2 hours ago! lol

[@EverardJunction]

I use sprung centre off switches. The 3 terminals on the bottom make on-off-on as you flick the switch.

[@timobluetreemodels352]

I have electro frogs and I have now followed your advice, I don't see what difference it could make to cut and then solder new wires to the outer tracks. Surely all your doing is allowing two (correctly polarised) feeds if you don't cut it so, your frog has two chances? It can't short as the polarity switch surely only matches the physical blade?? I think that's right and that way I can run trains before all motors are in... Thanks for your help, great videos!! Always a treat!

[@EverardJunction]

BR Blues Thanks, glad you got it sorted. I still have some points without motors and they still work fine. Just keep them clean and you'll be ok.

[@bikerides]

Yes most wire like that will do. I have point motors wired using multicore RS232 computer cables which have fine wire in the cables (only meant for signal or digital pulses not power). Over a long run the resistance of fine wire makes the point sluggish due to voltage drop so use thicker wire for longer runs.

[@DeanPark]

do you slide the heat shrink on to the cable and once you've soldered the joint, do you slide it over the connection and heat it?...but heat it with what? Really hope you can help!

[@SimonsShed]

So as long as I drill the hole before fixing the track down (and keep the hole clear of ballast) I could fit the point motors at any time in the future, is that right?

[@EverardJunction]

You will have to drill a hole for the point motor. Using a screwdriver you should be able to carefully get the point off the baseboard. I have managed to remove ballasted track without breaking it many times in the past.

[@EverardJunction]

@pyronathanpyro The motors are easy to find, wire is from maplins and the switches are from ebay, they are double throw centre off switches.

[@EverardJunction]

@jackabeejackson The best size for the hole is probably about the size of a 1p coin. Then the motor can be mounted underneath.

[@EverardJunction]

You can put insulating joiners on the frog (as I did). That will let the point work without a polarity switch. You can then wire up all the rest later on.

[@EverardJunction]

Power for the track comes from the DCC controller. Power for lights and other accessories comes from a 12v DC transformer.

[@EverardJunction]

I use peco code 100 track as it works well with everything and is easy to use. I would also recommend code 75 as it more realistic, however older models don't work so well on it.

[@TheWoodlandhoBo]

Thank you. You’ve cleared my head 👍🏻

[@EverardJunction]

It's wired to switch the polarity of the point, If you just want to change the point then you only need to use the terminals for the switch.

[@brianmcaleer3958]

Very helpful video thanks. What did you use to cut the point motor rods after fitting ?

[@44662dc]

many thanks for the info.I am not electrical minded but I am following your instructions I am not sure regarding the white wire what you mean or where it goes. I think you do a great job explaining on these vids and look forward to some more many thanks

[@EverardJunction]

@gazclass58 Thanks, if you use insulfrog you don't need a polarity switch and the wiring is more simple.

[@EverardJunction]

I don't use a CDU but I do recommend using one. It's unlikely that the CDU will cause the layout to loose power when wired correctly. I'm guessing your layout has a wiring issue somewhere. I would contact the person who built the layout and see if they can help.

[@EverardJunction]

@bobbysong69 If you are you using dc then terminals D & E of the motor go to the + & - track feed from the controller. All the rest of the wiring is the same. The wire that goes to the centre of the switch and terminal C go to the + & - 12v feed on the back of the gaugemaster controller. Don't use the 16v as this is AC voltage and will not make things work.

[@EverardJunction]

A bus cable is a wire that supplies power to all parts of a layout

[@EverardJunction]

For DC use without a polarity switch you will need to use a Seep PM-2 point motor. You will only need to use terminals A,B and C to get them working. Currently all hornby points are insulfrog.

[@LJbradbury]

Excellent video this is exactly what I want to do, thanks

[@EverardJunction]

Should do, I think the accessory point decoder works with most point motors.

[@bikerides]

You can convert the running track to DCC and still use analogue DC for the points. Alternatively you will need to get an 'accessory decoder' to drive the point motors - they drive up to four each, it is then just connected to the power bus - or install a 'district' for accessories (power booster).

[@quarryjunction-1969]

As always great video Richard. Just one question I dont plan using a switch, I want to use a Lenz LS150 DCC Accessory Decoder 6 Way. Each port has 3 holes. A switch only uses 2 wires how would I wire this please. I pretty much understand the rest

[@jwhful]

You cut the connection wires under the point blades if you are going to bond the point blades to the stock rails with a soldered wire between the two. This ensures power is always fed to the point blades even if the tab under the point blade wears out get bent. Cutting the wire as per the Peco instructions ensures you will not get a short circuit. Otherwise leave the wires in place and trust the blades and stock rails will always make good contact, which in my experience they do not over time.

[@Alexpage1111]

I tried learning about this. I asked someone once, and the response implied that I wasn't smart enough to learn; all I asked was, 'Can you teach me how to install points on my circular single-track train set?' and they replied, 'that's pointless' sorry I will get my coat.

[@EverardJunction]

@jasonandjoesrailway You would be best with insulfrog points, and would have to use some sort of surface mounted point motors instead.

[@EverardJunction]

You could do that but... You would have to make a bracket to mount the servo under the board. A lever mechanism attached to the point would need to be fabricated. The server would need to be re-wired with a switch and power feed. It has no polarity switch so one would need to be bought and installed along side. Some way of limiting how far the servo moves would need to worked out or it could break the point motor. I would go for tortoise point motors if you want servo like operation.

[@poinchesterstation4514]

Hi. Great insight to electrofrogs. However I still use insulfrog and was wondering if I can still use these seep motors on dc and not wire the frog and dcc wires. Secondly I've seen that the hole needs to be 9.5 mm wide. However a drill bit leaves a huge hole underneath. So can I effectively just make a hole 9.5 mm wide underneath the tie bar and just make the lenght according to the diameter of the motors bar ?

[@TotallyScaleModels]

once again a brilliant vid, i am using insul frog with hornby point motors but am liking these points and motors. are they peco points ??

[@EverardJunction]

@armleyroad Thanks mate, you only need the insulating joiners at the end of the V coming from the frog. Once those are on the point will work like any other.

[@EverardJunction]

The wall is scratch built from brick plasticard. I get the platicard from Slaters.

[@EverardJunction]

I couldn't see why either. I have left them as standard, all work fine.

[@EverardJunction]

@hornbyhobby It is possible if (like me) you drilled a hole for the point motor before the ballasting. If you didn't the you can pobably get away with a surface mounted point motor, but i've never actually used one.

[@douglaskirk2543]

Have been wondering how to do that. Thanks for the info.

[@Whizzer1]

another great video your layout looks very realistic

[@sparetool1]

HI First would just like to say love the layout and all the vids on here. Just one question on the points i get all the wiring up and how it works i just noticed that half way down the turn out there are two cuts is this to stop a short circuit when the point is changed and one more question on your 3-way point did u use one point motor. Thanks and again great videos cant wait for the next.

[@EverardJunction]

The white cable is simply an earth, so anything that has a 0 volt connection is fine. I used the DC transformer.

[@garystevens4303]

Hi Richard, A very informative video as usual. You mentioned in this video or the previous that you use kadee couplings. I like the idea of them too. What # type/number kadee do you use & they fit all of your locos/rolling stock easily? There seems to be such a huge range of kadee couplings. My stuff is all hornby.

[@brianburns7211]

Very informative Richard!

[@DeanPark]

A quick question (or two) Richard.... are the SEEP point motors smaller than the peco ones? As I have a area under my raised section with track underneath and I need a small point motor due to the limited clearance! Also, what do you cut the point motor rod with, after its fitted? Its obviously too long and needs trimmed, but I am struggling to source the right tool what will allow me to snip it when its already fitted to the layout. I had used a trusty old pair of cutters, but they broke! What do you use? Finally, I have a DCC Concepts point decoder, for controlling the points by DCC if I want to go down that route. Would it matter if I bought a seep with built in accessory switch, but didn't use it, instead choosing to use the decoder (which has a built in accessory switch)CheersDave

[@EverardJunction]

+DaveClass47 Hi Dave. The seeps are smaller in height than the peco ones. I don't have one to hand right now, but the are no more that 20mm tall. I use a Dremel with a cutting disk to get rid of the excess rod. Some track cutters might also do it. As for the accessory switch you don't have to worry if you don't wire it up. Seep also make them without the switch if you don't want it. Cheers

[@DeanPark]

Cheers, the SEEP might be the answer to getting a turnout in the upper section when it is directly above the tracks below! Dave

[@DeanPark]

***** hi, try rapid electronics. They sell them by the bag load! Crimp blade splices and crimp blade connectors. I use them on my layout too. They are easy to use.

[@shade19752000]

hey matey I have posted this on a facebook group that deals with model railway stuff. There is a few on there that don't know how to or where to start with wiring up point motors. I have wired up the seep point and berko 2 aspect signals together and be on my layout sometime soon!

[@adameley7655]

Excellent videos. Thanks. The way this is all hooked up I assume is focused around a DCC set up? Or does this method apply to DC too? I guess I’m specifically referring to the fact that you made points totally live.

[@farmerdave7965]

I like the design of the seeps. I heard of people having problems with them and wonder if you have had any problems.

[@DieyoungDiefast]

I like using 10 way ribbon cable (using 5 of the wires) for wiring the motors. It means I can use different colours for the 2 direction wires and as a plus keeps all the wiring nice and neat. Fold the ribbon in half lengthways at the motor end and use garden twine to tie the cable to the small hole between terminals 'D' and 'E'. One colour for straight ahead and the 2nd for turning.

[@kevinwalton4538]

DieyoungDiefast a

[@kevinwalton4538]

Sorry don’t know what happened there!

[@EverardJunction]

@maxilfli1 Yeah, they are peco code 100 streamline points, you can get them in insulfrog or electrofrog

[@user-pe5jx5tl8u]

Hi Richard, do you still need to take the two wires out from the underside of the point just before the frog and make a connection between the two rails, so contact is always there regardless if the blades aren’t connecting properly, as you would with a Peco point motor.

[@EverardJunction]

Once soldered I slide the heat shrink over the connector and gently heat it with a soldering iron.

[@trainfest2790]

Hi, love the videos, very informative. Could you tell me please what grade of cable you use for each type of drop wire you use. i.e. track, lighting and accessories. Thanks.

[@bloodmarine77]

a very good tutorial video mate.but it seems like to much hard work for me tho LOL!i really like the static grass around the siding of the tmd, i must invest in a grassmaster soon.looking forwards to another update.

[@EverardJunction]

The point motor cannot be powered by DCC as is is the wrong type of voltage. The DC controller is used instead, so the point will move when you press the switch. The white wire goes to the DC- terminal on the controller and the DC+ goes to the middle terminal on the switch.

[@TheMisterdan01]

Thanks for the video Richard. This was very informative. I like the idea of using 12V and switches rather than DCC, but I wondered (sorry the whole wiring thing often confuses me) you said you also connected it to the DCC bus wires? Are the points only run through a DCC decoder type box and if so what are the DC wires attached too? Thanks in advance, Dan

[@jwhful]

Forget to say excellent videos by the way!

[@kageypg]

Apologies if you’ve already covered this but I’m just about to wire up loft railway. Intend to go DC at first then convert to DCC as skills develop. Is wiring the same for these motors? Great videos btw. Thanks.

[@EverardJunction]

I get them from rapid electronics, they're called crimp blade splicers.

[@cech1444]

I'm not sure if you'll know what I mean by what I'm about to say but it's worth a try. Instead of using the point motor, could you put insulating rail joiners on the end of points and wire up the track after it? And if so will this work for both electrofrog and insulfrog? Thanks

[@Kafkabinkles]

Excellent video. One question though: The Peco Electrofrog instruction leaflet says to cut the two small wires on the underside of the turnout before wiring up a point motor or if there are short circuit problems with DCC. Did you do this before you wired up the motor, or can the wires be left as they are? Thanks.

[@liverkewell07]

Great video am i right in thinking that the 12v on the switch and 0 (c) go to a acceries bus wire?

[@EverardJunction]

@djcharlyc they are made by gaugemaster and they are called seep motors

[@EverardJunction]

I can't remember, but they are called crimp blade splicers if that helps.

[@EverardJunction]

I think they are called single pole double throw switches.

[@larzos]

You don't need flux. Buy good solder wire 60/40 rosin core. Last time I used flux was in 1978!!! I'm a professional electronics engineer. Anyway, good advice about the point motor.

[@KapybaraKSP]

Mike at Everbeek thanks for th info, annoying that my point motors were left half Finnished for bout 3 years! we stopped work after the builder, my grandfather, passed, but, were back baby! wooo!!

[@mbaker335]

I am also a professional electronics engineer. OK most of the time these days I use computer software but when I get to play with a soldering iron good flux is essential. How do you install smd parts without flux, or solder/remove 100+ pin devices? Hot air work demands loads of flux to safely remove and replace components and I mean loads. Very strange. In this situation using flux means you can carry solder to the joint on the iron tip which cannot be done with multicore solder on its own as the rosin will burn off before the joint is made.

[@adamallen9274]

Thanks for your excellent video!

[@darrenjohnson1979]

wre do u get the main power from . is it from the two scew type thing that are on the power box ?? some told me that it was 16 volts 1 + 1- becoues i am a newbie to this an i like some workinh lights and frog points but there no one that will tell me on how to wire ,lights for rail yard ,street lamps an other thing plz can u help me if u can or videos on how to do wire thank you i like ur lay out very nice

[@Oli_Timmis]

Hi there. Im fairly young and into N gauge. Mainly modern. I'm just about to start making my layout soon!

[@GreatNorthernParkway]

So you started off this video saying you don't have point motors in that particular point you focused on. But you can run a train across the point without a point motor? Only with insulated rail joiners?... Don't you need at least a polarity switch of some sort? Also where does the first 0v go to? And you also need 12v power as well as your DCC power??

[@EverardJunction]

I use peco dummy motors. They look quite good.

[@ralphy46gizzmo]

Hi, i notice u power the insulated frog with green wire becus it isnt powered, now xcus me if im ignorant about something, but would'nt using the electro frogs eliminate havin to add green wire but still use plastics where u did? If reading this tells u im too far off in my knowledge of all this, I wont blame u for not answering, its jus that it seems to me like i wont hav to add green with electrofrogs..thx, Ralphy

[@44662dc]

Hi love the video very helpful as I am experiencing the problem (livefrog )which you are illustrating. I am running D.C.C. but operate my points DC. Is it possible to do a similar wiring job as you have described

[@morganconroy9579]

You do not show your panel(s) which house the individual switches, however a friend used peco point motors and yesterday was adding a LED per switch showing on his home made display panels the LED clear track path route via each switch. My question is "Can one add LEDs to the Seep point motor wiring. The wiring details for my friends LEDS, including a resistor in each case, are contained with the Peco mechanisms. He also has a number of CDU's covering his layout. Your method looks simpler to fit and one I wish to pursue as my layout prep continues at snail pace. Final note love your videos all now on my computer for reference. Bill Conroy

[@EverardJunction]

Morgan Conroy Seep motors will allow the use of leds. You will need to add some additional circuitry. Some peco equipment may be of use, but of i've not tried it.