How to explain the Holy Trinity w/ Fr. Thomas Joseph White, OP

[@no_prisoners6474]

I am from the Pedi tribe in South Africa. When I was going through catechism before communion, it was recited every Tuesday in my language. I don't know if there's an English equivalent. Dinnete tse kgolo (directly translatered: major truths) Modimo ke o tee fela, me baikemedi ke ba bararo. (There's only 1 God, and he has 3 persons) Tate, le Morwa, le Moya o Mokgethwa (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) Morwa o ile a itira motho gore a re pholoshe ka lehu la gagwe (the Son became himself man so that He could save us by His death.) Morena ke Moahlodi, Moputsabaloki, Mootlabakgopo. (the Lord is Judge, Rewarder of the good, and Disciplinarian of the evil at heart)

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

POPE BENEDICT XVI: “The Father is love, the Son is love, and the Spirit is love. The greatest proof that we are made in the image of the Trinity is that only love makes us happy, because we live to love and to be loved. Even God does not exist in solitude, but in perfect communion. Therefore, the human person, made in the image of God, fulfills himself or herself in love.” ST. AUGUSTINE: “If you see love, you see the Trinity.’

[@PatrickAbel]

I was having a conversation with a friend who postponed his conversion because he couldn't grasp the Holy Trinity. It was a bit staggering to realize that I couldn't articulate an answer suitable enough for him. It's comforting to know that my struggle isn't unique. The simplest and most concise answer I can offer for the validity of the Holy Trinity is that it just is! God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Simple (although obviously very complex) as that!

[@dennisjump8655]

Maybe he couldn't grasp it because it is unscriptural and doesn't make sense. Anyone, even a child, can understand the relationship between a father and son. But the trinity must be repeatedly 'explained' by an endless number of videos. That's because it's untrue and is not in the Bible. It is an invention of a 4th century clergy that sought Roman approval and gave more credence to philosophy than to God's Word. A lie cannot stand up to scrutiny and logic. Jesus is the Son of God, just as he said he was and Peter confessed ( Matthew 16:15).

[@Lostandfoundrecipes-lz2mm]

Can the council of Nicaea make this statement ( Galatians 1:10-12 )

[@Castellop]

Thanks be to God! Preach Truth!

[@k.bernard9067]

There have been many attempts to describe the Trinity. Often a diagram is employed depicting how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relate, and do not relate to one another. Brian Holdsworth has a video where he uses this. Bishop Fulton Sheen also has employed it. He also used an analogy of the 3 states of water. Both of these have been helpful. Recently found the Athanasian Creed through Laudate'. As I understand it was written by the first century bishop Saint Athanasius. The prayer is built around defining the Trinity. To my knowledge it is a prayer not commonly used today, but is worth knowing and reflecting on.

[@k.bernard9067]

@@DroknarsForge4198 , thank you for the information; I have research to do. 1) As to Bishop Sheen's analogy of the state's of water in his effort to help people comprehend the Trinity, one would need to view the video clip. He was firm in his explanation of the Trinity as 3 persons, but 1 substance, and not separate personalities or "masks" which were switched out per the heresy. He would have been aware of Sabellianism, which drove how his explanation was structured. Based on what I have read to date of the bishop, he does not appear to subscribe to the idea. 2) As to the Athanasius Creed, can you clarify the author?

[@lhgihs]

The social model of the Trinity is surprisingly intuitive--not only in its personalist dimension, but also in its appeal to the "distinction by relation" in the Trinity. The social model is also useful for understanding why the terminus of the Trinity subsists essentially in three persons, rather than as a dyad, or as four, five, etc. This is because love requires for its end only a cobeloved of the lover and the loved, and since the cobeloved must be equal in intimacy to the lover and loved for this end to be ultimately sufficient, the cobeloved would need to be the substantially same being as that of the lover and loved. Thus, there is the Father (lover), Son (loved), and Holy Spirit (cobeloved). In saying this, we don't eliminate the reality of many "beloveds"; instead, we only suggest that whereas the cobeloved is substantially the same, the "many beloveds" are of a different being, i.e., created being. The love Christians recognize as "adoption" (as 'beloved,' not as 'cobeloved') is that selection or choice by God to elect creatures, in love, in the highest possible way--not, however, as if man, when united by love to God, is then *literally* God. If I adopt children that are not biologically mine, they never become biologically one in essence with me, no matter the intensity of love I have for them. And yet, in loving them as truly as I can according to the reality to which I am beholden, I would love them *as if* they were biologically my own. Hence the power of love, "which is as strong as death" (Song 8:6). It heals the affects to the root, making the intellect rest while it guides and directs the will. Interestingly, St. Bonaventure describes the uncanny behavior of non-human animals in this way. While it might seem, at times, that animals are exercising their power by reason, they are actually exercising it *as if* by reason, because it is not reason that animates them, but love. Lastly, it's good to point out that there's no "fully resolving intellect" but only a "partially resolving intellect" concerning knowledge or apprehension of the Trinity. If there were a fully resolving intellect, we could fully apprehend God as he is in his simple essence; but that's absurd. Therefore, etc.

[@rayfranklin5783]

Subject, Object, and Verb = 1 Divine Being

[@johnn633]

Fr. Thomas Joseph White is like the Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange of our time. Thank you for the amazing analogies i'll have to chew a little bit on them and digest them but they already opened some doors in my understanding on how to explain the doctrine to people outside the Church

[@citlalyrendon8793]

Thank you for this video!!!

[@MrSeedz94]

Glory be to God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen

[@jula5417]

Chwała Ojcu i Synowi i Duchowi Świętemu. Jak była na początku, teraz, zawsze i na wieki wieków. Amen Greetings from Poland 😊

[@alexanderh2345]

Be a lot faster if you just said Jesus. He is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. What’s the “name” mentioned in Matthew 28:19? It can only be Jesus!

[@basedsigmalifter9482]

@@alexanderh2345No He isn’t, thats modalism

[@alexanderh2345]

@@basedsigmalifter9482 Pray tell, how is it modalism?

[@basedsigmalifter9482]

@@alexanderh2345 If Jesus is all 3, then it is one person in 3 forms. That is modalism.

[@kdmdlo]

But, of course, God must be three people. If the Father is love, He has had to have someone to love ... i.e., the Son. And the exchange of love (the divine breath ... the sigh of love between those two) is the Spirit.

[@hoid8069]

You can't prove the Trinity from reason.

[@lostboyrc623]

The most difficult thing I suffer is that I do not understand in deep how to approach the Trinity in prayer.

[@lostboyrc623]

Do I pray to the Father, in the name of the Son, through the Holy Spirit? Can I just direct my prayers to Our Lord?

[@Ibn.Kathir]

@@lostboyrc623 Mister, The trinity is a heresy. Mister, The trinity is a heresy. Prophet Jesus (PBUH) Prophet Jesus (PBUH) didn’t preach the trinity. He preached to believe in one God only. I invite you to embrace Islam, the pure monotheism.

[@Ibn.Kathir]

@@lostboyrc623 If you have any questions about Islam, please tell me.

[@martyfromnebraska1045]

@@lostboyrc623 All prayers are through Jesus, as St Paul said. Following the Lord’s Prayer as a rubric, I’d say to direct your prayers towards the Father, say them in Jesus’ name, and then in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I’m just a guy and could be wrong, but that makes most sense to me.

[@caminoabienestar7131]

That’s because God is one Not three ! Jesus and the father are EJad in hebrew , meaning yes there is a father and a son but you can approach them as one , they are the same and the Spirit of Elohim is just that , the spirit of Elohim the father. Just pray to the father as Jesus said . Than as you become closer you will know how they are one , Jesus and The father and the Ruaj or spirit helps us , guides us …

[@andrewhoffer5670]

Amazing video, thanks for the wonderful teaching! This is the absolute central mystery of our Faith, and one that, God willing, we spend all eternity contemplating. To reject the Holy Trinity is blasphemy and is to reject God Himself as revealed by Jesus Christ. God bless you all

[@mancipiachristi9032]

After performing a miracle before the pagan king of Ireland St. Patrick was asked by the pagan king to teach him about God. St. Patrick picked up a clover and said just as there are 3 leaves with one stem so is God in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

[@twopoles11]

No, Patrick, that's partialism, espoused by the five robot cars in Voltron that combine to form one massive robot.

[@janpahl6015]

a plant (and all modular organisms) can have many "persons" (modules) but is only one organism (being).... I mention this because the analogy of a statue (0 persons, 1 being) and your son (1 person, 1 being) can be extended intuitively to 3 persons on one being or N persons in one being

[@davonbenson4361]

I think I have a decent explanation. In a person’s full life, there were moments in time where they were a child, young adult, and an elderly person. Even though their physical forms are different, they still have the same DNA structure. If this person was a being who could transcend time, he or she could be the child, adult, and elderly versions of his or herself at once. This could explain how a Holy Trinity can exist.

[@jimr4319]

An atom is one specific entity with 3 components , Nucleus, Proton and Electron...can God be likened to something such as that with all 3 parts operating in unison yet distinctly from the other?

[@JonOchoa]

Strictly by definitions of the words you used: the atom/component analogy is limited because the nucleus/proton/electron are not fully in and of themselves the atom. Perhaps consider God as the Creator of Everything, then see that the Creator of Everything exists as three distinct persons. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are each independently fully the Creator of Everything, as well as being the Creator of Everything in perfect Trinitarian Union, where the Son proceeds from the Father by generation and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son by spiration.

[@miketacos9034]

God is outside and inside our universe. God outside is God the Father. God inside is The Holy Spirit. But also God became a human and fully experienced life and joy and suffering and death and then resurrection as Jesus Christ, so that’s the Son of God. Hope that clears it up for anyone. Always seemed pretty straightforward to me when I heard this in Church. Btw God always was going to become a human because He has always loved us and has always wanted to connect with us through empathy (personal experience), so that’s why the Son of God is coeternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. He was always capable of and wanting to connect with us.

[@la1769]

I go back to something I learned in school H2O - it’s a solid in ice, liquid in water, and gas in steam.

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

That's actually a super badass way to think about it. Well done

[@Jk-ow8ny]

@@Whiskey.Tango.Actualthat’s actually a heretical way of thinking it

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

@@Jk-ow8ny hahaha. Please, do explain. It's lacking in depth but certainly not heretical.

[@Jk-ow8ny]

@@Whiskey.Tango.Actual modalism

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

@@Jk-ow8ny no... Not really. It's all still dihydrogen monoxide... In different states.

[@lofislozano8529]

All the apostles preached that Jehovah The Father resurrected his son Jesus Acts 3: 13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified HIS Servant, Jesus 15 ..But God RAISED HIM UP from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. Galatians 1: Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, WHO RAISED HIM UP up from the dead. Acts 13:33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ Acts 5: 30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus

[@ryanb4780]

Are there any videos of someone doing a step by step breakdown of the objections and responses in the Summa for the Trinity?

[@hezekiahra3416]

All hail Triune God

[@felipemartinez-qs5sh]

All the apostles preached that Jehovah The Father resurrected his son Jesus Acts 3: 13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified HIS Servant, Jesus 15 whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God RAISED HIM UP from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. Galatians 1: Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, WHO RAISED HIM UP up from the dead. Acts 13:33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ Acts 5: 30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus

[@bjorkstrand7773]

the trinity = strength(power), love + wisdom(thought), source= aquarian gospel of jesus the christ

[@JRX0X0]

I explained to my young kids that God is like water... H2O... It has three forms liquid, ice, and steam.....all different but still the same... Father, Son and Holy Spirit... three persons but one God.

[@chidoman1595]

But God is all three at the same time while h20 can only be one form at a time. I think anyway.

[@pocketvelero]

@@chidoman1595 Look up "triple point of water"

[@dwong9289]

That’s modalism.

[@JRX0X0]

It's an an analogy for small children to point to the reality that there is One God in three persons... The Trinity... you give me a better anology and I will cheerfully utilise it 👍🏼

[@pocketvelero]

@@dwong9289 It can't be modalism, however, if water has no person. Modalism implies a single person with three modes. If water had a person for each of its three states, it would be a perfect analogy of the Trinity. As I mentioned earlier, "triple point of water" is very helpful.

[@dougphamtexas2707]

I dont think GOD will let anyone know who he really is .......my answer is NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE

[@BJHeffernan]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son” (John 3:16). A father offering up his only son is the supreme demonstration of love that the human mind and heart can conceive and feel. It is symbolized by the touching story of Abraham and Isaac (see Genesis 22). But if the Father is the same being as the Son, then this sacrifice of all sacrifices is lost, and Abraham is no longer offering up Isaac-Abraham is now offering up Abraham.

[@JamesBond-fz7du]

The father creates thru his Word and gives life thru his Spirit The Father Generates (or begot) the Word from his mind and the Spirit perceeds from him Think of the father as the Source and the head of the Spirit & the Word The Word is Sane because he is a Wisdom generates from the father so it is okay to call him a person

[@margpeterson9721]

The new Encyclopedia Britannica says: Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord (Deut. 6:4).....The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and many controversies.....By the end of the 4th century.....the doctrine of the Trinity was formed.

[@alexanderh2345]

It’s amazing how many people will totally ignore this fact. Instead they will choose the convention of man for the last 2000 years rather than the wisdom and Word of God which is eternal.

[@oscarvaldez8636]

He's 3 who's and 1 what.

[@oscarvaldez8636]

@@elwynnforest1452 one being would not be referred to as more than one. God is one being. But even at that God is spirit and only God the son (jesus) has a gender which is male. So you are right in saying he wouldn't be called "he" but usuallaly this is how we refer to God.

[@oscarvaldez8636]

@@elwynnforest1452 I really don't want to have an argument on KZbin right now so we'll just agree that my grammar sucks

[@KnuttyEntertainment]

Why not 3 whats and 1 who?

[@oscarvaldez8636]

@@KnuttyEntertainment because it's three persons in one God. God has knowledge of self and self love. In love there is the lover the beloved and the love they share. God loving himself generates the son. the father is the lover and the son is the beloved and the holy ghost is the love they share. They are three distinct persons who are all God. They do not share the nature of God but each posseses it entirely. The mystery of the Trinity cannot be understood by human reason and is best described in the words of that Athanasian creed. If there is any heresy in my words please point it out so I can repent immediately and fix my error.

[@KnuttyEntertainment]

​@@oscarvaldez8636 That sounds to me like something made up to satisfy philosophers instead of giving reverence to the scriptures. Col. 2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Is there anything in the Bible about how God loving himself creates multiple personalities for him to love, or that such a thing is even necessary? And isn’t saying “the mystery of the trinity cannot be understood by human reason” a cop out and an admission that the trinity isn’t logically consistent? I read the whole New Testament a couple weeks ago. It seems to me that the people behind the trinity had two problems: 1. They were having trouble reconciling verses that say there is only one God; that the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit are all God; not each other; and all one. 2. They had to justify their religion in the eyes of Greek Philosophers who had a quickly growing influence in the church (re Col. 2:8) So they created the trinity which just put the cart before the horse by embodying the logical contradictions into the nature of God. But if logic, nature, and consciousness all stem from God and all his creations operate from the logic that is within God, and all of creation echoes the existence of God, then the nature of God should be intuitive to us, just like how morality is intuitive to us. Everyone understands that it is wrong to lie, steal, or kill. Those ideas come naturally to us. So why would God’s nature not be the same way? If the nature of God cannot be logically understood by creatures that operate of off God’s logic with the divine spark of conscience, then God is at odds with himself. He invented math and then said that 1 = 3. (Romans 1:20; 2:14-15) Having read the whole New Testament recently, I was able to look at those verses about the nature of God in a new light. Everything makes much more sense if we consider that God is 3 beings of 1 person rather than 3 persons of 1 being. Think of 3 actors that portray Hamlet. Three people but one character. This puts many things into new context, like how we become children of God and joint-heirs with Christ. How we take upon ourselves the name of Christ when we are baptized. If God is defined not by *what* he is, but *who* he is, it suddenly makes more sense when we are told to be like him. Take John 14:20 and 17:20-23 for example. It says that the disciples may be made one with Christ and the Father the same way that Christ and the Father are one with each other. If they are one in substance, then this verse means that the apostles can fuse combine together with Jesus into some weird amalgamation. If they are one in character, will, and purpose, then the verse makes total sense. Jesus’s baptism also makes more sense. The Father, Son, and Spirit all appear separately. Jesus is the water, the Holy Ghost as a dove, and the Father’s voice is heard calling out of heaven. Those three separate things can hardly be one undivided substance.

[@Jordan-1999]

This has come to be my understanding of the TRINITY. *TRINITY* God the FATHER and His Son and His HOLY SPIRIT: one in ESSENCE and undivided. God revealed the MYSTERY of the _Trinity_ at Christ's BAPTISM (Mt 3:13-17), but even before that event, numerous OT references pointed to the Trinity. For example, the frequent use of plural pronouns referring to the one God (Gn 1:26); the three angels who appeared to Abraham (Gn 18:1-16); and the Thrice Holy hymn sung by the angels in Isaiah's vision (Is 6:1-4) all suggest one God in three Persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19).

[@bengoolie5197]

The Athanasian Creed should be recited on a regular basis.

[@renlamomtsopoe]

How is "being" understood here? Statue is a being?

[@maxspringer01]

Right, I would never call a statue a "being". If I was in a dark woods and someone said "there is a being behind you", I would 100% expect a living something, as opposed to a concrete statue.

[@rangle_t.i7413]

I agree that being is a bit confusing, but basically to be, is to exist, to be a person is to have a will, so a being can be without person but a person can not be without being.

[@KK-AA-YY]

There is no explaining a LIE HEBREWS 9:24 (English Revised Version) ""For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, like in pattern to the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us:""

[@buurmeisje]

That didn't make sense to me

[@leenieledejo6849]

Because it's nonsense! Read the book of Acts, read the New Testament epistles, read what God says at Jesus's baptism and Transfiguration. Read Peter's declaration about Jesus's identity in Matthew chapter 16 (and how Jesus responds).

[@boarderx100]

If Satan knew who "God" was, why did he challenge "God" to be disloyal to "God" and worship him(Satan). Surley "God" would not worship his own enemy. Then why did Satan pose that idiotic question if that is the case?? Because Jesus, as "the Son" is a different being, with a mind and identity of his own. A spirit with an inferior position to Jehovah (JHWH) Almighty God, the Father. The Son, as a creation(he had a beginning Col1:15, Prov 8:22,...) has the ability to choose to whom his loyalty goes out. The choice is between Satan and God. God is outside this equation as he is one of the two parties claiming worship. When Constantine, the Mithras worshipping pagan ultimatly decided in 325ad what the right view on God and the doctrine of christianity was, you know you have an image problem. He didn't care what the right doctrine was, he only cared for a religion that would unify a empire. Many pagans back then had trinity gods, it only made political sense to choose that version. When politics mixed with religion and became one, who had the power over them? Satan is the ruler of this world and hijacked a form of christianity as a front. It gave him the appearance of ligitamacy. Any alternate view was met with violent suppression and murder. You know, the kind of reasoning Jesus thaught his diciples...... Why does the trinity need to use Plato's filosofical basis to explain itself (Catachism 251), the very thing we were warned about not to do!! COL 2:8 The doctrine was made up by so called christians in the 4th century CE. They got tired of being compared by philosophy loving pagans to jews and their backward religion. Esteem and honor were more important than truth and so they tried explaining God in a philosophical Platonian way in an effort to sway pagans and to come of as more educated. Jesus warned his name would bring dishonor. The first century christians were proud to be dishonored in Jesus name. How quick things changed.. You have to bend over backwards to twist what scripture actualy says to try and fit the trinity in. It ends up as the most confusing doctrine ever made and no christian can explain it in a coherent way so that it would make sense. You end up having to call it a mystery instead of a lie, what it actualy is, in order to be able to have a chance of believing it.

[@SirPoopallot]

No need to try to go too deep into this. We accept the mystery of the resurrection, we can accept the mystery of the trinity. Since God the Father created the universe, he lives outside of it. Most likely he can't enter directly. He did use nature to project his voice, but the person of God the Father can't be inside the universe as he would then be limited by the physics and time it contains. The next option was for him to create vehicles with different functions to intercede inside the universe, in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It would be interesting to talk about biological twins and triplets. These are also 1 body in 2 or 3 people. But are they distinct souls, but split? It might be tempting to just say that there are 3 souls, but can a soul be split?

[@matthewcruz1709]

I'd be careful saying that God is A being, even if it is "a being, which is three persons". How can we say the same thing, but encapsulate the truth that God is Being (ipsum esse subsistens), rather than muddying the waters by implying God is A being; ontologically similar to created beings?

[@DrMox-ny8qs]

O Christ Worshippers!: by Ibnul Qayyim Al Jawzia

[@Lostandfoundrecipes-lz2mm]

Finding the trinity in the NABRE, " Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ " St. Jerome on the back cover Starting with Adam and Eve, they were the 1st to sin and the 1st to be forgiven ( Genesis 3:21 ) NABRE, God shed the blood of 2 animals to provide covering for them, since life is in the blood ( Genesis 4:10 ) NABRE, Abel's blood cried out to God from the ground. This was the 1st sin offering recorded and was carried out in the old testament until 1 day in ( John 1:29) NABRE John saw Jesus toward him and said " Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world." In ( 1 John1:7 ) NABRE We have fellowship with 1 another and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from sin. How does this happen ( 1 John 5:7-8 ) NABRE So there are 3 that testify, the Spirit, the water, and the blood and the 3 are of 1 accord. How they come together is in the name of Jesus, when you say Jesus 's name, in comes the Spirit, in comes the blood and it mixes with the water an when you get down into the water There's a washing and a cleansing that cleans your spirit white as snow as in ( Hebrews 9:22 ) NABRE According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Now I cannot show you the Spirit it's invisible and I can't show you the blood shed at Cavalry, but I can show you the water. It's the only water that can save you ,the water with the blood in it and the only way it can be applied is to be baptized in Jesus name. There's no other name in which you can be saved ( Acts 4:12-13 ) NABRE. But you say I was baptized as an infant, no blood no forgiveness, you can go down to the river and be dunked 3 times, no blood no forgiveness, but what of all of those who were baptized Father, Son, and holy Spirit, no blood no forgiveness. 1Lord, 1 faith, 1baptism. It's for every one , no exceptions ( Ephesians 4:5 ) NABRE

[@nostalgia9997]

പരിശുദ്ധ ത്രിത്വം PART : 2. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zmi4g3uMlsaEd80

[@thetheoreticaltheologian2458]

The Triune God is perfect in love and unity that for all eternity God existed in a set of living loving relationships needing nothing, nor was/is dependent upon no one, yet created us because God is love and by Gods love we were created to have a living loving relationship with God who is Love! However we have all failed to live up to God‘s perfect righteous standard for all send and fallen short of the glory of God. If God counted our sins, who could stand? Our good deeds are like filthy rags, for there is no one who is good, “self righteous” no not one. Therefore God “the Son” who was sent by the Father, came down to earth to take on a second nature “sinless human flesh” who remained sinless even though He was tempted and tested in every way that we were, yet He did not sin. Therefore He is worthy to be called the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jesus Christ took on the full weight of sin on the Cross, once and for all, for in Him, it is finished, fulfilled, fully satisfied and paid in full, once and for all! Therefore both love and justice remain perfect and righteous having no sin go left unpunished and unpaid for so that in Christ Jesus the debt of sin has been paid for in full once and for all. As well as God demonstrated the greatest most ultimate love ever, for God who is infinitely pure righteous and holy, Took on the exact opposite of his nature “evil/sin” into Himself so that we who believe would receive His perfect righteousness into ourselves “aka the great exchange” so that we may be the righteousness of God! For God demonstrated His own love for us, in that while we were still yet sinners, Christ died for us! For there is no greater love than this! Therefore since Christ on the third day rose from the dead in glory and has ascended into heaven who is seated at the right hand of the father on the throne who being the savior of the world is given the name that is above every name in heaven and on earth who will be praised and worshiped forever! Glory be His Name! Therefore since we have accepted this, we receive the Holy Spirit whom was sent by the Father and Son to us to dwell with us, to guide us in the righteousness of Christ Jesus “the Son” so that when we depart from the flesh, we then can approach the holy throne of God Almighty in perfect righteousness having no sin in us. For we have been saved by God‘s grace love and mercy alone through Faith alone in the Son Jesus Christ alone, not of works lest anyone should boast. We then can enter into the eternal and everlasting Kingdom of God Almighty through what Christ Jesus has done for us on the cross and resurrected from the dead into glory, for which we then will receive the eternal rewards for the good deeds that we did here on earth, for the glory of God!

[@creatinechris]

1:10 In order to lose weight, I was planning to fast for the next few weeks, but it might be healthier for me to eat this word salad instead. 👍🥗

[@pozorovatellidi]

You cannot explain it as it's illogical and not true. Jesus clearly refuted the Trinity doctrine when he stated that Father is the only true God, his God and our God. And Christians are people who follow Jesus's teachings, right?

[@sonder152]

The Trinity only makes sense if everything is God, but even Pantheism suffers from the same violation of the law of non-contradiction. Jesus can't be God if everything else also isn't God. There is no way around it. But if everything else is God then there is no God because the word "God" is just being used to describe the world.

[@alexanderh2345]

You jump through all these hoops to try and explain the trinity. But the Bible is clear that God is numerically and indivisibly ONE. He is One and His name is Jesus! That simple people. No hoops to jump through.

[@John-115]

Comment

[@rickcampanella4254]

If we were made in Their image the God the soul Jesus the body and the Spirit is Spirit. Jesus never founded a state run religion. Catholics confuse me and I used to be one.

[@STROND]

Sorry but the Bible does not teach that God is made up of three Gods in one. Can you show us where Jesus said that God is made up of three Gods in one ? Can you show us where any of the disciples said that God is made up of three Gods in one ? And as the foundation doctrine of the Trinity is that all three are co-equal, can you show us where Jesus said that all three are EQUAL ? Can you show us where any of the Bible writers stated that all three are equal !

[@winstonbarquez9538]

The Three-in-One doctrine may be explained by paraphrasing St Gregory of Nyssa: just as there are many human persons with only one human nature, so there are three divine persons with only one divine nature.

[@lumbratile4174]

Wow, this is completely useless

[@alexanderh2345]

But each human person has a different center of conscience. If you have more than one center of conscience you are distinctly different from any other and are entirely your own. To believe this of God is to believe, quite literally, in 3 gods.

[@winstonbarquez9538]

@@alexanderh2345 what center of conscience? God does not have a conscience as humans have. The knowledge of God is infinite and does not need a guide to act prudently.

[@alexanderh2345]

@@winstonbarquez9538 Nor does he share divine nature as humans share human nature. “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” - Isaiah 42:8 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.” - Isaiah 43:10-11 “Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” - Isaiah 44:8 God is numerically, indivisibly, and distinctly one. This is the great revelation of the Bible.

[@alexanderh2345]

@@winstonbarquez9538 I'm not seeing where my response to you was posted, so I'll try again. God does not share in divine nature with another as all humans share in human nature, so Gregory of Nyssa is wrong. My point of the three centers of conscience is that God speaks and acts as one, indivisible divine being. The trinity would make that one become three beings, thus three places from which God can speak and act. That God speaks and acts at all is only through the power of His word. Hence by the Logos, were all things made (John 1) and by him (Jesus Christ) were all things created (Colossians 1). There is no need of a trinity to act as God. Just the One God who is Spirit working through His Word.

[@dwong9289]

Gilles Emery OP is the best for Trinitarian theology

[@mitchellc4]

Hello Jesus is the Messiah The Son of God The Son of David The Son of man The man God has chosen to be his anointed king The man God will judge the world through Jesus has a God There is no triune god in scripture Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

[@alexanderh2345]

The doctrine of the trinity can be clearly traced to the likes of Greek philosophers who became theologians. So why do you continue to believe in a man made doctrine?

[@claudiozanella256]

The churchfathers couldn't figure out that the Father - who is a spirit ("God is a spirit") - is inside Jesus and simply is called "Holy Spirit" by Him (see the Jesus' sermon about the TWO blasphemies - directed to Son and Father - where the Father was called "Holy Spirit"). The Father - who is a spirit - helped Jesus in the desert and also later when speaking. Thus no third person exists.

[@dannielpayne3045]

Matt, I have a question. I recently watched a video from a channel dedicated to spread understanding of the eastern rite Catholics, and it said they took the theology from their respective eastern churches and maybe take some from the west too. What I wanted to ask you is if you felt any difference between your Byzantine church and what the west teaches, for example, with Aquinas, you know, since the orthodox say there is a hierarchy in the Trinity and the difference between essence and energies of God, from Palamas.

[@mattblaise9160]

I have a question. The Bible says that "God never changes". But when Jesus incarnated as man and remained man even after his death, didn't God "change" in a way?

[@gshere5890]

He didn’t change his person, he took human as a form

[@mattblaise9160]

@@gshere5890 The Bible doesn't say God doesn't change as a person. It says God never changes.

[@johnn633]

But Jesus has two natures. One human and one Divine, human nature encompasses change but Divine nature doesn't change. Fr. Thomas White has a good book about this topic called "The Incarnate Lord"

[@mattblaise9160]

@@johnn633 Did he have that from eternity?

[@johnn633]

@@mattblaise9160 No but the point is that his divine nature didn't change in the moment of Incarnation

[@minorityvoice9253]

The psychological analogy should be clarified.

[@alexanderh2345]

Sooooo confusing. Respectfully, the gentlemen could not even understand what he was saying himself.

[@stevenwebb6253]

Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.

[@maseratiupgrades4363]

The 'Trinity' is not a mystery but is an absurd invention of false gods. The truly one God does not rely upon internal components or persons, or does not exist as a partnership of multiple person or entities mutually in need of one another, whether they are inseparable or not. The name of the trinitarians profession (Trinity) betrays itself as polytheistic idolatry. There is no room for other than three in the word 'trinity'. If the trinitarians were honest, as mere back door Hindus, they would proclaim belief in three (multiple) gods closely working together. But Trinitarians go beyond the first deception of inventing three false gods besides the one true God, by putting then all in a sealed bag and calling them one God adding another layer (1=3) of falseness and absurdity.... ' Truth hurled against falsehood knocks out its brain'-Quran.

[@danharte6645]

As with the last time i shared it, im almost certain that my link will be removed. This is a cut and paste of the info Restructure family (a) postpone or avoid marriage; (b) alter image of ideal family". Next comes a heading referring to the compulsory education of children, followed by: Percentage increased homosexuality, educate for family limitation, healthy control agents in water supply". 1840Then there is a heading referring to economic deterrents which include the following: Require women to work and provide few child-care facilities". Under the heading of "Social controls", Mr. Jaffe puts forward these suggestions: Compulsory abortion of out-of-wedlock pregnancies; compulsory sterilisation of all who have two children except for a few who would be allowed three; confine childbearing to only a limited number of adults; stock certificate-type permits for children". The source is given as:

[@oceanmachine1906]

A family does not include two of the same gender, so you cannot make that analogy for the Trinity because there are no feminine parts of the Trinity according to mainstream doctrine

[@danzo1711]

Not only is the Trinity incompatible with divine simplicity, since on divine simplicity, there cannot be any distinctions in God, but the Trinity is itself internally contradictory. The doctrine of the Trinity claims that each of the persons of the Trinity are identical to God, but distinct from each other. That is a sheer contradiction, if each of the persons are identical to God, then they can not be distinct from each other.

[@oceanmachine1906]

Christianity intentionally backed itself into a corner that they cannot escape from. They will Anarchonistically say that the Trinity was always there in their scriptures but the fact does remain that the doctrine was successively evolved (by their early theologians and philosophers - drawing directly from Platonism) in response to various early 'heresies', including the original Jewish-Christian position shared by James and most of the apostles that God is God and Jesus is only a divinely created son who serves the role of prophecied messiah.

[@Zematus737]

In the proverbs you hear Wisdom speak, saying, before God made the earth and settled it upon the waters, before the age old hills and valleys were formed, I was there. Who is saying this? Even in Genesis you have the plurality when God speaks and says, Let us make man in our image. Who is us and 'our'? You say these things because you failed to notice them. It was inevitable that the Trinity should be discovered, and undeniable after the gospels.

[@danzo1711]

@@Zematus737 Even if the Trinity is in the Old Testament, that's irrelevant to my argument. My argument is that the Trinity is internally contradictory, and is incompatible with divine simplicity, which is an understanding of God that is demonstrably true.

[@Zematus737]

@@danzo1711 God is Truth. He is wherever there is truth, as its own light. Can it be said that God can forget? Yet in scriptures we often see that God remembers his servants, when they remember him. Wisdom is the wellspring of knowledge, She being more precious than riches or jewels. She is the reservoir of all that is and has been. Christ, who is called the Spirit of Prophecy in Revelation, is and becomes all that could be. He does not change when paths alter, because when they are what IS, they meet with Truth. All three exist with each other, and to each other they are distinct but together. You cannot have one without the other since the existence of one implies the necessity of the other. God, The Father, is ever-present. Is that not simple enough for you?

[@danzo1711]

@@Zematus737 Nice word salad. None of that addressed anything that I said in both of my points.

[@learneroftruth9697]

Brethren, there is evidence that Jesus never spoke the 'triune' passage in Matt. 28:19, but rather "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name..." harmonizing more perfectly with the other Gospels and all references in the Epistles, but especially in the book of Acts! The Father, and the Holy Spirit, are One and the Self-Same Entity (Matt1:20, Luk 1:35). Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD! The 'trinity' is a lie. EVIDENCE: Doctrine and Practice in the Early Church: By Dr. Stuart G. Hall 1992, pages 20 and 21 The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263 Edmund Schlink, The Doctrine of Baptism, page 28 Hastings Dictionary of the Bible 1963, page 1015 James Moffett's New Testament Translation: In a footnote on page 64 about Matthew 28:19 New Revised Standard Version says this about Matthew 28:19 Tom Harpur, former Religion Editor of the Toronto Star in his “For Christ's sake,” page 103 informs us of these facts The Bible Commentary 1919 page 723 “The Demonstratio Evangelica” by Eusebius, page 152 The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637 The Jerusalem Bible The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, page 275 Matthew 28:19 should have read “in My name.” Credit: www.truthseeker.church/matthew28

[@JudeOne3Four]

Nobody understands the Trinity because it is not Biblical. That is why Trinitarians have to use their imagination and eisegesis to explain away the obvious verses. If Jesus is THE God Almighty, than what is the Father?

[@sonder152]

The old testament (Tanakh) was simple and logical. There is YHWH, the only God, end of question. Trinitarian Christian theology is always going to be self-contradictory and incoherent because it not only contradicts Biblical theology but is simply not the God that Jesus worshipped.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@sonder152 Yes, you're correct, Trinitarians and Modalists are 100% deceived and incoherent. The only thing i disagree with is the Tetragrammaton. The God of Israel has no name, only titles. Wonder why *nobody* in the OT and NT never used YHWH? Because it comes from the Kabbalah. Yahweh and Yeshua are two demons from the Kabbalah. You will find those names *only* in Kabbalistic text and other high level Satanists.

[@sonder152]

@@JudeOne3Four YHWH is all throughout the OT. The NT was written in Greek though, so any references to it are vague. Yahweh is not a proper transliteration of YHWH though, the only real way to pronounce it is by saying the four letters (yod he vav he). I do agree with what you said about kabbalah (which is a Jewish mystical system from the middle ages) but the Tetragrammaton didn't originate in kabbalah.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@sonder152 No man, YHWH comes from the Kabbalah. Any references are vague? So God is playing hide and seek? The Tetragrammaton IS Jewish mysticism. Let's see if you believe what the Bible says or some Christ hating rabbi's. Exodus 3:13 And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, *The God of our fathers* has sent me to you; and they will ask me, *what is His name?* What shall I say to them? 14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, *I am THE BEING;* and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, *THE BEING* has sent me to you. 15 And GOD SAID AGAIN to Moses, Thus SHALT thou SAY TO the sons of Israel, *THE Lord GOD of our fathers, the God of Abraam, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob,* has sent me to you: *this is My name* FOR EVER, AND MY MEMORIAL TO GENERATIONS OF GENERATIONS. Question: How does God say Himself *how* He wants to be adressed forever?

[@sonder152]

@@JudeOne3Four "the lord" is just a common English placeholder for the Tetragrammaton, in Hebrew one of the common placeholders is "Hashem". Aka the original Hebrew text will say "YHWH hath sent me" whereas someone reading it aloud will say "Hashem hath sent me", in accordance with this tradition English translations will read "The Lord hath sent me".

[@leovere]

.

[@danharte6645]

Ok, lets try to share this link again as its been erased. This link will immediately follow in my next post momentarily so please watch out for it

[@Reno_Slim]

How many pints do I need to get in me before I start to believe this nonsense?

[@danharte6645]

I think ive gone too far down the rabbit hole as im seeing information I'd rather not want to see

[@PringleDinglesonThe3rd]

I have a major question: How is Jesus eternally begotten?

[@mrsir8094]

Good question. I don't believe Jesus was eternally begotten but I believe He was begotten when He took on humanity

[@kirkjungles4901]

@@mrsir8094 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The eternal sonship of Christ was elucidated by the first council of Nicaea. It is absolutely infallible doctrine.

[@johnn633]

I'm a newbie in thomistic theology but i try to explain it as far as i understand it right now and hope to be corrected where i'm mistaken: 1. God is eternal and is the cause of His own existence, because His existence is His essence. 2. God is simple, that means He has no parts, He is not a complex 3. Through revelation we now, that God one but three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 4. The things we can say about God, we say analogically, because our finite minds cannot grasp his infinite essence 5. Because God is three persons there is relationship within God and these relations between the persons we describe with the specific words like the Word of God signifies, that He is his eternal law, that leads everything to it's end, Son of God because God is his own cause. In the latter we now have an analogy to farher and son, like the father begets the son, God is his own cause eternally, so the Father begets the Son eternally. Please correct me where I'm wrong

[@mrsir8094]

@@kirkjungles4901 John 1:1 doesn't go against what I said. Let me tell you what I believe. I believe that Christ is Eternal and that He always existed as the Word as John 1:1 says. Btw John 1:1 doesn't say anything about Christ being eternally begotten

[@kirkjungles4901]

@@mrsir8094 Thanks for sharing, and I understand why you would think that, but 1 John 4:9 is another passage that makes it clear that the Father sent His Son into the world; He was already Son before entering the world. Aside from just Scriptural exegesis, I strongly suggest looking into the consensus of the early Church on the matter, both ante-Nicene and post-Nicene. The deposit of faith from the Apostles is consistent with eternal sonship, and it's very important that we have an understanding of Jesus that is consistent with what the faith handed down by the Apostles. Christ be with you.

[@danharte6645]

Ok, its clear that the All Gore rhythms is blocking my links no matter what i do to disguise it. All i can say now is to search for ukparliament population & development colombo 1979. I can do no more

[@Thetruthisnoteasy]

Gentlemen, the Latins poorly understood the Capadocian fathers idea of the hypostasis which is not a person. The explanations you do are crude and unhelpful. Do read St Gregory the Theologian and tremble in awe. The Fathers did not dare speak about the Holy Trinity and they were enlightened thru holiness, not reader of books

[@luisramrod9121]

This makes no sense.

[@judykrus9614]

Clear as mud