How to get a John Muir Trail Wilderness Permit for 2016

[@robertkooken790]

Thanks very much for this video. We would never have been able to figure out the Cottonwood Pass option, which we spent several hours preparing and submitting today, successfully! It took several hours to figure out the 21 camp sites we had to specify on the form, but we were reassured by the fact that we can modify it with a ranger's help when we arrive at the trailhead. Your videos are superb, with good photography and great information.

[@ApeMan]

+Robert Kooken Thanks. Have a great trip!

[@kathydixon-wallace238]

Thank you! The SEKI hint was very helpful, just finished booking!

[@Hiker63]

I lucked out and got my golden ticket from HI. Thanks for all you info.

[@williammurray7717]

Youre videos are extremely helpful, thank you for making them! They've been my number one reference through this process. I got my permit for july 18 entry at happy isles. Thanks for your help, keep it up!

[@ApeMan]

Whoa Bill Murray! Thanks I'm glad they helped. July will be pretty snowy still so brush up on your navigation and stream crossing skills.

[@9993chad]

Great video. I'm from Alberta, Canada and this is very helpful, thanks for all the info.

[@ApeMan]

+Chad Crouch We hiked a lot of the JMT with some really fun Canadiens in 2014 and they were loving it. You won't be the only one traveling a long distance. We met people from all over the world. God I love the rockies in Canada! The Sierra are a different experience with lots of granite and vistas everywhere. Hope you get on the trail. We are still ahead of schedule on our snowfall here in California so it's looking like at least a normal snow pack on the JMT so plan accordingly.

[@marceeymarce]

Your information on this trail is awesome I'm using it for my JMT hike this year mid August early September

[@Visaliaipa]

Great video.......I started the JMT in August of 14 and I obtained a permit from Happy Isles via Illilouette Falls. Downside is you have to backtrack for a portion but on the day I picked up my permit I was able to get a Happy Isles to Lower Yosemite Valley. And you are right that climb out of the valley is a pain. Unfortunately I had to stop at Tuolumne Meadows due to injury but plan on finishing. Right now I'm living in Bishop so there are a ton of trails like you mentioned. I like the idea of going south to north.........

[@kimalixglazier4008]

Thank you for taking the time to make this video.

[@ApeMan]

Tahoe to Yosemite on the PCT ending in Tuolumne Meadows in Yosemite. There is a resupply at Sonora Pass. No crowds and some spectacular scenery. Check out the High Sierra Trail and add on as many miles as you like but a resupply would require a packer. Besides the tahoe to whitney section of the PCT the best sections of PCT are in Oregon and Washington. Sisters section is nice.

[@ryangreenfilms]

This video was extremly helpful. Finally gave up on advance permit lottery. Even though it was not allowed my mischievous 3:) group of three each have been sending out a permit form for the last twenty-two days straight from three different fax numbers (66 faxes in total) All of them were denied to to lack of space. Going to camp outside the ranger station for the 24+ hours to secure 3 of the 10 available walk up permit exciting via Lyell Canyon. Talked to a ranger a few times and some days they were receiving up to 600 faxes....Demand has doubled. Anyways your videos are awesome and will continue to tune in for great tips! Thanks

[@ApeMan]

+Ryan Green Who knew it would be this crazy this year. I don't call your strategy mischievous, I call that smart! I got a permit from Lyell wilderness permit office by showing up at 3:30am 5 years ago and was 1st in line but who knows with these crowds. There are 3 of you so you can do it in shifts. There is always the outside chance of cancellations or now shows so be ready to leave that day if that happens - they give those out at 11am for immediate departure. Been busy but planning on doing a video on fishing the JMT and another on how to do it on the cheap. I'm always open for suggestions.

[@thehovable]

For others that are interested - I was declined 14 times in a row and then just got a permit today for Lyell Canyon to Whitney Portal. I'm a solo hiker so was surprised it took 14 tries to get through. I heard it's a 90% denial rate. The size of your group will definitely affect things but seems more like 95% denial rate for peak summer times. I kind of wonder if it's really random, or if they just feel sorry for you after a while and recognize your persistence. The Cottonwood Pass idea is a great one as a backup. It's less than 20 additional miles. Thanks for the help/ideas with permits! See you guys out there!

[@ApeMan]

+Ryan H Persistence pays off! Congrats and have a great time!!

[@ScottM999]

Thank you for the advice.

[@robertcallahan1046]

Thanks so much for the advice. I've done tons of research on this process but having an "insiders" view on things makes me more confident I'll get a permit. Hope to hit the trail in late July with my son and am very excited about it!

[@ApeMan]

+Robert Callahan Late July is a great time. With just the 2 of you you should be able to get a permit. Have fun. It's pretty special with your kid.

[@ryancampbell7833]

thanks a lot man. your video cleared a lot up. I've had to navigate recreation.gov before and I gotta say the most confusing part is always permits. I really appreciate you taking the time to try to spell it out. keep up the great work.

[@healthyhiker5140]

I REALLY Appreciate you taking the time to do this video & your others, it's definitely helping in my planning of being able to do the trail.

[@kumoh9118]

Planning on 2017 first solo trip. Window of 4 week to make from ohio. Plan for sometime between july to august....Permit process make me nerviouse. I have watched all your video, great info..physically fit all the gears are ready but mind is bit confused.....thank you apeman for all the videos..

[@ApeMan]

+Kum Oh Planning ahead I see. That's why I made the video since the permit process is complex. Next year they are supposed to have a computerized system like recreation.gov. Just be flexible on your start date and put in daily requests until you get one. Since you are solo your odds are good and you can always use the alternatives I went over or just start from Tuolumne Meadows and get a walkup permit. What's round at both ends and hi in the middle? OHIO!

[@rockslide4576]

+Kum Oh I'm from Ohio and also planning a solo JMT hike in 2017, but I can't leave until after August 1 (work project). Hope you have a fantastic hike!

[@she_hikes]

thank you! guess it's time to stop thinking about it and start planning for it. really starting to consider nobo out of cottonwood after watching this - i would love to have things confirmed asap before i reconsider ;) but the whole 'must be a stud or like a lot of pain' comment has me thinking i'll give happy isles or sunrise a shot first lol. hiking solo and being totally flexible as to dates may work in my favour. thanks again - this video was extremely helpful..

[@ApeMan]

+mysecond50years If you are flexible and solo you can try for a SOBO. Just keep faxing everyday and you'll get one. I hate planning in advance and rarely get reservations and just do walkups...except the JMT permit. It's a pain in the butt but it's worth it. If you are in good shape don't worry about the NOBO. The only concern is altitude sickness but it will get better over time. The southern half of the trail is the most scenic and the highest but it's all good. There is just something really cool about finishing on top of Mt Whitney

[@she_hikes]

+Ape Man altitude sickness does concern me - i'm coming from vancouver island, british columbia, and we are definitely at sea level lol. but would really like to finish on mt. whitney. quick question - read in another blog that you had to fax in application between 12:01 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. the first day you can apply - somewhat challenging unless a person owns a fax machine. ;) i have since read (and you confirmed) - that you can actually submit one day prior - i think you mentioned after 12:00 noon in your vid but 5:00 pm in one of your threads. i have yet to find this actual time in the nps.gov site ... any input on that? thanks again -

[@ApeMan]

+mysecond50years I'm not positive about the time so just do it after 5pm pacific (british columbia) time. There are fax services online you can use but I'm technologically challenged and I faxed mine from a Staples. Not sure if you have a fed ex store on Vancouver Island. I want to visit and do the west coast trail there! I love the Olympic National Park coastal area too. You live in a beautiful area! On the altitude thing if you have time spend a couple nights camping / sleeping up high at 9-10000 feet. It will help a lot. Places that are good for that are Tuolumne Meadows, Onion Valley Campground, Mammoth - Mammoth Mountain Inn, The Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest and the NOBO trailhead at Horseshoe meadows. The best thing to do is camp a couple days up high and day hike around the day before your trip. Supposedly Diamox is helpful too but I have no experience with that.

[@she_hikes]

+Ape Man thx again - i honestly was floundering until i watched this video. i submitted my first application today. my plan is to try for 2 weeks to get my sobo choices - if no luck then i will apply nobo and do as you say - take a couple days to hopefully get used to the altitude. hopefully you get a chance to get out to this neck of the woods - the reason i haven't really hiked anywhere else is because with the beauty that surrounds me there has been no need! i haven't done the west coast trail - i have been on probably 5 multi-day hikes in the last couple years that have no quota limitation - we also have a new trial called the north coast trail which i am keen to hike - it definitely will give the west coast trail a run for it's money. I will hopefully add it into my 5th trip out to cape scott this year :) nolofacereinsipida.blogspot.ca/2014/07/north-coast-trail.html

[@kumoh9118]

Thank you sooooooo much!!!!!!

[@CarlosWhittaker]

Hey! SO HELPFUL! So we are thinking of going Northbound in mid August. I'm trying to get this all right in my head. When I go to the website am I looking to get a pass from Cottonwood LAKES or Cottonwood PASS? Would they both work? Also. It looks like you must say exactly where you will be staying every night of the journey before you get your permit? Is this correct as well? Thanks so much for all your help...

[@ApeMan]

+Carlos Whittaker Cottonwood Pass is easier and more direct. Cottonwood Lakes is harder and 5 miles longer but much more interesting. They both merge together the 2nd day. It does make you enter all the days but only the 1st couple days matter at all. They don't care after that but the form requires it. Look for the ones that start with seki - . Here is a sample itinerary for cottonwood pass. Night 1 - chicken springs lake or seki - rock creek. Night 2 and 3 seki - crabtree meadows. You would leave your camp set up and summit whitney from here as a day hike and then camp a 2nd night at Crabtree. Night 4 seki - Tyndall, night 5 seki - vidette, night 6 seki - rae lakes, night 7 seki - woods creek etc. You can call the ranger station with help on this at [phone]

[@CarlosWhittaker]

+Ape Man Thank you so much for this. I thought I would for sure be doomed without a permit by now but wasn't worried about it cause my August was full. Well it just opened up and I've been putting this trip off too long. You are a valuable source of information. Thank you so much!

[@FrancisRosignolo]

Denied 14 times in a row, but the 15th was accepted for a solo journey out of Happy Isles July 10th.

[@ApeMan]

+Francis Rosignolo I guess the 15th time was a charm! Good job on not giving up! Look at it as a blessing. July 10th is a way better start date than the end of June. It's still shaping up as an above average snow year so a later start is better. Congrats and have a blast.

[@christopherbrennan4858]

Faxed my first attempt at a JMT Permit today. Hoping for a lucky break.

[@ApeMan]

+Christopher Brennan Good luck!!

[@ApeMan]

Are you putting in all 3 options on your form? Should be Happy Isles to LYV, Happy Isles Pass through and Glacier Point to LYV. I'm surprised you are getting rejected for all 3 this early since an early June start would involve a lot of snow and high creek crossings. You are right as a solo your chances are excellent so keep trying. You can always start at Lyell where you can get a walkup permit for 1. If you are in great shape you could day hike the Happy Isles to Lyell portion. No permit required for the day hike. Or you could hike it downhill from Lyell to Happy Isles which is much easier and then take the hiker bus back up to Tuolumne / Lyell and continue on your permit from there. Keep trying. I must be lucky as I got mine in 2014 on the first try for a Friday August 19th start. All my other forays onto the JMT were before it was so popular and I always got walkup permits because I hate planning in advance but it is what it is now so roll the dice and pray to the lottery Gods. Good luck. You will get one. It's worth it!

[@ApeMan]

+tyler675108 It's Happy Isles pass through. It means you are passing through little Yosemite Valley and can't camp there which is a good thing since that campground sucks! Put Sunrise or clouds rest junction as your 1st nights camping spot. You can camp anywhere after the junction of the half dome trail and jmt junction. You are not allowed to camp any sooner with that option.

[@Brian-vz7xe]

+Ape Man I am disgusted with the parks and who govern them saying that there is only 20 people that can hike in humungus forest.

[@ApeMan]

+Brian H. I don't like the quotas either but they are there to give the users a wilderness experience. Before quotas 30years ago there were areas in the sierra backcountry that resembled car campgrounds. The quotas have restored some of those areas. There are lots and lots of areas around the JMT that I visit that I just drive up and get a permit. I sometimes go days without seeing another person just a mile or two off the JMT. We call the JMT the freeway to get to the good stuff. It's not just the 45 a day going over Donahue Pass. There are many other access points to the JMT and areas like thousand island lake may have 200 people camped there and you can't even find a campspot. And that is with quotas in place. The park service does a magnificent job protecting our public lands on an ever decreasing budget.

[@DanielSanchez-jh5om]

Hello! Great video! I have a question about where should we park the car? At the Yosemite Valley visitor center or some where else?

[@ApeMan]

If you are lucky enough to start at Happy Isles there is a big dirt parking lot just past Curry Village. Depends where you start and if you want your car waiting for you at the end or will bus yourself back to it at the end of your trip. I like having it waiting for me at Whitney Portal or in Lone Pine but either way works. It takes a full day and 2 busses to get from one end of the trail to the other. I prefer staying at Dow Villa in Lone Pine. They will let you leave your car in their lot if you stay there. Get a good nights sleep and have a big meal. Get up early and walk across the street and catch the ESTA bus at 6:30am. They don't run everyday so check the schedule. Transfer to YARTS in Mammoth or Lee Vining and you will be in Yosemite Valley around noonish. Jump on the free shuttle in the valley to the trailhead or to the backpackers camp for an early next day start. Simple right? It is once you figure it out.

[@dcaudwell]

Thanks so much for these videos - very detailed and helpful! I've just been rejected by Yosemite for my 10 day start window beginning in August so I'm now looking at a Rush Creek Entry, and this video was so useful! I'm now wondering though about doing day hikes in Yosemite prior to my Rush Creek start to connect the pieces of the trail. (I'd already booked August off work back in Dec and am coming from Canada, so I want to try to complete the entire trail) Could I string together day hikes to do this and would I need permits to do that? Or could I even backcountry camp overnight between Happy Isles and Tuolumne, stay the night there, and then overnight in the backcountry as far as Donahue and return to Tuolumne? I'm guessing I'd need overnight permits for this?

[@ApeMan]

The Rush Creek entry does require the hard to get Whitney exit permit so you may have to exit south of Whitney at Horseshoe Meadows which adds about 20 miles of bonus hiking. You could hike from Rush Creek north all the way to Happy Isles. This would require a separate permit which won't be that hard to get as a walkup if you can't reserve it. From Happy Isles you could then take the YARTS bus back to the Rush Creek trailhead and complete the rest of the trail heading south on a second permit. There is no overnight camping without a permit in any national park or wilderness area.

[@carriesummers538]

To clarify my last post, I would utilize your suggestions about how to hike the JMT south to north, but I don't want to hike with the sun in my eyes. I would appreciate your advice about hikes on other sections of the PCT that do not require a permit. Thank you so much!

[@shirtasylum]

First thanks for the videos, great info. I started the process today of faxing my permit request and as suggested I put Happy Isle to LYV, Happy Isles Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass through and then Lyell Canyon. Got rejected today but will keep trying. I do have to ask, I'm shooting for couple weeks of August and have several different sleeping bags depending on the season. What bag would you recommend for JMT in August as far as temp range goes?

[@ApeMan]

+Doug Boyd, Artist Good luck on the permit - just keep faxing. August is the warmest month on average but you could actually get snow any day. Lowest temps would be 25 but not likely. More like 30 - 35 range. Thunderstorms are common in August so you gotta stay dry especially with a down bag which is what I would use. 15-30 degree bag would work. On the coldest nights just sleep in your clothes with a beanie on. I use a Marmot Helium rated at 15 degrees and it has kept me toasty warm to 15 degrees. I consider your bag one of your most important pieces of gear because sleep is so important on a thru hike. Pair it with a good pad which helps keep you warm. You can use a liner to a lower rated bag to add a few degrees if you want to try and go lighter. I don't like shivering but warm sleepers and ultra lighters get by with 30 degree quality bags.

[@shirtasylum]

+Ape Man thanks for the info! There are so many videos and a lot of advice out there to weed through. I am more of a desert hiker and it has been years since I've done anything with much altitude and I knew it gets a bit colder as you get higher even in summer time. Also so your video about the arch supports, which I think I'm getting to the point where I need to start using them. Thanks again

[@carriesummers538]

Hi, I really appreciate all the advice that you give about getting a JMT permit. I have been applying for many days in a row now for my permit, so I want to make sure I am faxing my permit application at the most convenient time for myself and my husband. I read somewhere that you had to apply for the permit 186 days in advance from 12:01am to 7:30am the morning before the permit was due. So for instance, if I was trying to apply to start my hike on August 10th, I would have to send the permit between 2:01am (CST, my time zone) and 9:30am (CST) on February 23rd... but technically Feb. 24th because it's after midnight. In a previous reply to my question about when to send a permit, you told me to send my fax between 12:01 PM Feb 16th or by 7:00am Feb 17th. In that scenario, did you mean to put the PM? Or is the literature that I read INCORRECT and you can apply anytime between 12:01pm Feb. 16th or by 7:00am Feb 17th (obviously this example is not 186 days in advance, but for the sake of the precedent example...). I ask because applying for the permit between 2:00am (my time) and 9:30am is very inconvenient for my schedule. I apologize that this question is so confusing, but the PM/AM question is critical for my schedule and I have been rejected almost a dozen times now.

[@ApeMan]

+Carrie Summers It's actually 168 days in advance. And I did mean 12pm not am. See this calendar for the exact day to fax. www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm It makes absolutely no difference what time of day you fax it as far as getting an advantage. Using the link above let's use August 15th as the date you want to get the permit. Per the calendar you have to have your fax sent by 7am (Pacific time) February 29th to be in the lottery for the August 15th permits. To be safe because I'm not positive about the 12pm pacific time the day before (February 28th) - Let's go with what I am positive about. Doesn't really matter. Just send your fax between 5pm February 28th pacific time and 7am February 29th pacific time to be in the lottery for the August 15th permit date. That's a 14 hour window to get your fax in. I like to do mine around 7-10pm just because their fax machine is less likely to be busy at that time but it really doesn't matter. If you get rejected just do the same thing the next day and adjust your dates to August 16th start date (using my example from above) Are you getting a rejection email from them each day? It's really hard this year. Keep trying or consider starting from the South and hiking north or doing a section hike of part of the trail. Permits are readily available on recreation.gov for entry trailheads both of Donahue Pass. You'll miss Yosemite but still get to do the majority of the trail.

[@Stewbphoto]

nice thanks for the info! also I was wondering if it would be OK to take my hammock since I would have to buy a tent and haven't slept on the ground in 10 years

[@ApeMan]

+Bryan Stewart You could do it in a hammock but it would limit some of your camp spots. There are no trees at Guitar Lake but you could camp down below near Crabtree Meadows. Much of the southern half of the trail is above tree line but there are trees between all the passes. When you get closer to Whitney there are a lot of Foxtail Pines and those are FAT and sometimes far apart so bring some extra long straps. You might want to bring a light ground cloth like Tyvek in case you have to spend a night on the ground. Sometimes it's nice to camp up high to set up for the next days pass so you would have to plan for that. Most of the main camping areas have trees. Get a good topo map that shows where the trees are. Some of the JMT guides have detailed camping descriptions that probably mention trees. Elizabeth Wenks guide comes to mind.

[@ApeMan]

Taboose pass is beautiful but is considered one of the harder passes and has crappy access on a dirt road. It's a 6000 foot climb. It is a bitch! It meets the JMT at a gorgeous remote area near the bench lake junction but it's a 2 day hike to get there. It's on the opposite (east) side of the Sierra from Vermillion which is on the west side via a long narrow paved road. How much of the JMT do you want to do? Bishop pass (south lake trailhead) or Paiute pass (north lake trailhead) would be better access points from the east. Just show up at the ranger station at 8 and you can get a walkup permit for the following days departure. Onion Valley would be even better because your friend is going to need a resupply there and you could meet them at Kearsarge Pass with enough food to get both of you to MTR for your next resupply. Kearsarge is easy and you could do 150 miles of the JMT. It has a high quota and I have no doubt you could get a walkup. Give me more info on how far you want to hike and where you are coming from and I will try to help. The east side ranger stations for walkup permits are in Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth and Mono Lake so pick the one that is convenient from where you are coming from.

[@ForgottenMan1]

Thanks for the videos, I gotten more practical info from them than anywhere else. I noticed you did not mention getting on the JMT from Edison Lake, a service buddy and I threw together a hike to use up his terminal leave in about 1971 and we got dropped off there and got picked up a few weeks later in Sequoia National Park, is this sort of thing a remnant of a bygone age (only a backcountry fire permit required as I recall)? Also, as I recall, we could pretty much camp anywhere that made sense (i.e., little sandy flats or pockets in the granite up away from lakes or streams), are things now restricted to formal campground sites? I can see that I'm a dinosaur in this, we'll see how going through Evolution Valley works out for the likes of me this time around. €;~>

[@ApeMan]

+ForgottenMan1 I first hiked out of this area in 1978 to the Graveyard Lakes. Even back then you needed a permit but you can still camp anywhere you want after your first night. The permits and quotas are actually a good thing to give you some solitude. A very popular resupply option for the JMT is at Edison Lake called the Vermilion Valley Resort. Nearby Florence lake is also a good access point and is where you can hike into Muir Trail ranch. I didn't mention this as an access point to the JMT mostly because of the transportation logistics and that 19 mile single lane road which hasn't changed since 1971. It's near the midpoint of the trail but it's still a great area to get access to some awesome wilderness quickly. It's best to have a car though. It is one of the quicker areas to access Evolution Valley from. There are many off trail magical places and lightly visited basins all around there. We may be dinosaurs but we are far from extinct!

[@timothybanek1844]

Hey Ape Man, Thanks for all the prior information. I'm planning on flying into Reno and take the ESTA bus to Lee Vinning and camp a couple of nights before starting my JMT hike on 8/15 at Happy Isles. I'm working on resupply locations. Any tips on resupply? What I've found online are: Tuolumne Meadows, Reds Meadow, Vermillion Valley Resort and John Muir Ranch. Are these the resupply points that you would recommend? Any others or tips you may have are appreciated. Thanks, Tim from Missouri

[@ApeMan]

Those are pretty much the only resupply options with the exception of hiking out over Kearsarge Pass to Independence. From Lee Vining it will be easy to hitch hike to Tuolumne Meadows. It's over 9000 feet so a good place to hang out a day or 2 to get used to the altitude. Great day hikes from there and it's nice there although crowded. You can try and get a regular car campground or just stay in the backpackers camp for a couple nights. While there stash EVERYTHING you won't need, including your 1st resupply, in a bear box and pick it up when you come through in a couple days. Mark it clearly with your name and when you will pick it up. The ones in front of the permit office always have plenty of room. Some people love VVR because they have beer and food and it's social but it wastes a day being off the trail. I much prefer MTR because it is 1 mile off the trail and it's your last resupply if not going out over Kearsarge Pass. I just prefer to not leave the wilderness but everyone is different. At Reds carb load at the restaurant and the store is stocked well enough to get you to MTR in 4-5 days. And they have a free hiker barrel. If you have time take a 0 day to recharge when you hit a nice spot. The southern half is more spectacular and less crowded. A great 0 day would be Bench Lake 1 mile off the trail when you will be needing one around mile 160? Get out of camp early - by 7:30 am. Gives you more options to get into camp early, take a nap or swim at lunch, or put in a big mile day if you need to. Soak your feet whenever possible! Don't be a slave to your plans. We probably stayed in our intended destinations 1/2 the time. On at least one night camp away from the established camping areas. Wander off trail a few hundred yards and it will fell like you are the only person there and you have a better chance at seeing wildlife.

[@timothybanek1844]

Thank you. I think I'll resupply at Tuolumne, Reds Meadow and John Muir Ranch, making it to Whitney Portal from John Muir Ranch without resupplying. I starting watching your foot video. I dehydrate elk burger, make jerky and use rice and pasta sides with dehydrated burger. Hope to supplement with fish in the southern end. I need to find out where I can have a fire to cook the fish. Do you think I can scale Half Dome and get to camp ar Sunrise Campground all in the first day starting at Happy Isles? Good hearing from you again and thanks. Tim

[@ApeMan]

The southern half is pretty high elevation. I believe fires are only allowed under 10k. Last place would be Vidette Meadows and Woods Creek bridge. Check out my fishing videos. There is a thing called a bakepacker that lets you cook fish in your pot. Sunrise after half dome is too ambitious for your 1st day. There is some good camping at the clouds rest junction about a mile past the half dome turnoff? There is water there. I would hike there and set up camp and then day hike half dome before sunset (weather permitting). Bring a headlamp. You will have half dome to yourself. Sounds like you have your food dialed in.

[@timothybanek1844]

Thanks for all your suggestions and assistance! One more question. I have to send my bucket to Muir Ranch before I receive my Bear Vault 500. I know I won't be able to get all my Muir Ranch resupply into my vault. Are there camps with bear proof storage for the first couple of nights south of Muir Ranch? I haven't been able to find information on food storage locations. I realize that the first days storage doesn't need to be in the container, but with other things besides food that must be protected, I expect it will take two or three days before it will all fit.

[@kimalixglazier4008]

are we clear to think the earlist to send our applicarion tomorrow is at 12 midnight tonight? we are lucky we have a flexible schedule this year. I will look to those wildflowers. so exciting.

[@ApeMan]

+Kim Alix Glazier The way I understand it is you can fax between 5 pm the day before up to 7:30 am the next day when the lottery is processed. There is no advantage gained by doing it at 12:01 am the day of other than the fax machine at the permit office won't be as busy. I put mine in in the evening around 8pm the day before the next day's lottery. I attached the link to the calendar below. You can always call the permit office if you have any questions. 209/372-0740 www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm

[@kimalixglazier4008]

Ape man you have amazing! Thank you for your patience advice and time. Thank you . Be well

[@kimalixglazier4008]

We will contact you when we are done the trail and send you some pictures if you like. Thanks again.

[@ApeMan]

+Kim Alix Glazier Can't wait to see some pictures. Have a blast!

[@graniteview]

Hi Ape Man, thanks for your videos. Would it be feasible to go from Cottonwood Pass to Crabtree in one day? Or is that just wishful thinking? Thanks!

[@ApeMan]

+CR V I would say no unless you are a stud. It's about 22 miles over 2 passes. That's not really the problem. The issue is the very high altitude on your very first day of hiking. I once saw 2 very ill hikers on Guyot pass that were bailing on their 3rd day because they just couldn't deal with the altitude. I have not had a problem with the altitude there but I always spend a night up high near the trailhead to help me get used to the altitude. My suggestion is 12 miles into rock creek and then 10 miles into Crabtree. You can make the call at Rock Creek and see how you feel. There are no good camping areas for 8 miles after rock creek so you have to commit.

[@emmanegreteharper1618]

Thank you so much for your help! I was trying to get a southbound permit from Yosemite for 7 days in a row and was unsuccesfull. I just reserved my permit for a Northbound trip from Cottonwood Lakes, you were soooo helpfull. I'm starting on june 23 (my birthday), how do you think snow conditions will be??

[@ApeMan]

+Emma Negrete Harper Are you experienced on snow? There will be lots of it at the end of June and some difficult river crossings. It would be much better if you could go at the end of July. IF we don't get any more big storms you should be ok but that's a big if and it's hard to predict the spring snowmelt. Also New Army Pass tends to have a large snow cornice at the top that is difficult to get around so keep an eye on conditions. If there is lots of snow it would be easier to go over cottonwood pass or trail pass. You can easily switch your permit to those options when you pick it up at the ranger station. If you aren't experienced I can't recommend this route in June but it will make for quite the adventure. It's a piece of cake a month later but dangerous with snow. You may not even be able to get all the way to the horseshoe meadows trailhead if the snow doesn't melt early enough. I recommend calling the ranger station a couple weeks before your start date to get the latest info. They can be reached at [phone]

[@emmanegreteharper1618]

+Ape Man I am looking at options to avoid the snow hazards, changing my entry trailhead to Cottonwood Pass instead of Cottonwood Lakes and starting maybe 2 weeks later (July 6th). I have used crampons and walked on snow but I can´t say I´m experienced, also I´m going solo. What do you think? Thanks for your help!

[@ApeMan]

+Emma Negrete Harper Sounds a lot better Emma. 2 weeks can make a big difference. Don't worry about being alone as much in July. If you get to a difficult section or stream crossing just wait for other people to be around just in case. You won't need crampons but hiking poles will be a must and perhaps an ice axe but most likely not if the snow is still bad. The idea is to cross the passes in the morning when the snow is hard but not so hard that it is ice and dangerous. Keep an eye on the snow reports. Check the PCT blogs - they are always the 1st over forester pass and you will be following their boot tracks. Mosquitoes will be fierce in some areas so be ready for that. Here is the conditions report from Inyo National Forest. Keep checking in as your trip approaches. Have fun! www.fs.usda.gov/detailfull/inyo/recreation/?cid=stelprdb5192379

[@emmanegreteharper1618]

Thank you! Will check the reports, weather and comments by PCTers. Can you recommend a guide book?

[@ApeMan]

+Emma Negrete Harper Elizabeth Wenks guidebook will tell you EVERYTHING you need to know.

[@PTG847]

Hi Ape Man - Am I understanding correctly that a Rush Creek start exiting Whitney means entering a lottery for Whitney? Thanks for the great Video!

[@ApeMan]

+PTG847 No you are not entering the Whitney lottery. That is just for day hikers and overnighters starting at Whitney Portal. After selecting the permit tab don't choose Mt Whitney but look under the Inyo National Forest-Wilderness permits and choose the option "Overnight exiting Mt Whitney". That will pull up a new window with 64 trailheads. Choose the "rush creek aa05" option and then it will take you to a new screen showing the availability. Now the tricky part is getting what is called a whitney trail crest exit permit. It will ask you to get this to complete the permit. You will be able to get the rush creek part done because there will be availability but the exit permits all will show R for reserved or will show an x because they are beyond the 6 month window. Everyday at 7am the next day of trail crest exit permits get reserved within the 1st 5 minutes so they are really hard to get. You might want to just call the Inyo Permit office for help. They answer their phone [phone]. You can avoid this by adding 2 days to your trip and exiting at Cottonwood Pass or the more scenes New Army Pass. You still complete the trail on top of Whitney but you can't exit at Whitney Portal. You would choose the option "Overnight visiting Mt Whitney" It adds an extra 20 miles or so of bonus sierra time to your trip.

[@PTG847]

+Ape Man Thanks!! It's my backup plan - I'm trying for my first choice out of Lyell but just pre planning if I don't get selected in the next few rounds.

[@ApeMan]

+PTG847 Wow that's scary. Actually the last time I used that option they filled within a few days, not seconds but that was 10 years ago. It's crazy how crowded the trail is getting. Lyell is a better option so good luck with that and they do have walkups with that option.

[@kimalixglazier4008]

If we Start at Happy Isles or Glacier point would we fill in that the 1st night campsite be Sunrise? And where would we camp if started at Sunrise Lakes? Thanks again for all your excellent info. we start applying tomorrow .

[@ApeMan]

+Kim Alix Glazier If you start at Happy isles you would put in 2 choices - 1st one would be HI to Little Yosemite Valley, 2nd choice HI to Sunrise Creek, and for Glacier Point your only choice is Little Yosemite Valley. If you start at the Sunrise Lakes trailhead you can put Sunrise High Sierra Camp or Cathedral Lakes as your camping spot. On that option you can actually camp anywhere once you are 2 miles in from the trailhead and you should consider a trip up clouds rest - better view than half dome without the crowds.

[@whodatdray]

Hey Ape Man! Thanks for all the advice on your videos. Based on your info, i got a permit to go South to North starting at Cottonwood Pass on August 6th. Might keep trying to get a pass from Yosemite (N/S) but at least can start planning either way. What's the best airport to reach Lone Pine? Looks like Fresno and Vegas are close. Thanks!!

[@ApeMan]

+Dray Wms From Vegas you would need a car but you get the bonus of getting to cruise through Death Valley National Park on the way to Lone Pine. Fresno is not a good option. LA is probably the shortest but I don't know the logistics very well on that one - it involves a short commuter train to Lancaster and then a Eastern Sierra Transit Authority (ESTA) bus to Lone Pine. You could fly into Reno and catch the ESTA bus right from the airport all the way to Lone Pine. It's convenient but the downside is it's a 6 hour bus ride and it only runs Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. From Yosemite Valley at the end of your trip you can catch a YARTS bus to the Merced AMTRAK train station and connect with several airports from there.

[@whodatdray]

+Ape Man thanks for advice again. I might end up driving from Louisiana. On your video, you said you can park a car at the Dow Villa Hotel in Lone Pine. Is that still a good option to park for a few weeks?

[@ApeMan]

+Dray Wms You need to stay there and sign in at the front desk. It's free and the Dow Villa is old but cool. 60-70 dollars for a room. We left our car there for 18 days. You can also call the Lone Pine Chamber of Commerce and leave your car there for 20 dollars.

[@kahoonaskid]

If I tke the Rush Creek option where would I collect my reserved permit from? Enjoy your videos and they have played a part in me visiting the states to do the JMT. If I ever sort a permit out that is!

[@ApeMan]

The Inyo National Forest has 4 wilderness permit stations and it depends which direction you are coming from for which one is convenient. I will list them starting from North and going south. They are all on or just off the highway 395. Mono Lake / Lee Vining near the highway 120 / 395 junction. Mammoth Lakes - it's a couple miles off 395 across the street from the Shilo Inn and McDonalds. There is one on the highway in Bishop. And the southernmost one is 1 mile south of Lone Pine and is the main station for all the Whitney Lottery daily mess but is a really nice station. Are you a Brit? Please sign the petition!

[@kahoonaskid]

I am indeed a Brit. Which petition would that be? I have found it too difficult to get the Whitney Exit permit so have decided to hike to Kennedy Meadows. Just got to work out how to get back to SF from there. I figure it will cost me and extra three days which is offset a bit by missing out yosemite valley.

[@ApeMan]

I wouldn't go all the way to Kennedy Meadows as the Sierras become pretty uninteresting compared to what you have been through. I would exit either over Cottonwood Pass or New Army Pass. I really like New Army Pass but it's a little further and harder. Lots of lakes and views and you can climb an easy 14k mountain if so inclined - Mt Langley. This will save you a couple days and then you can go see Yosemite Valley or SF. You can easily hitch hike down to Lone Pine and get a room in the Hostel or a motel - I like the Dow Villa - cheap and personality. Then at 6:30 am you cross the street to the McDonalds and catch the Eastern Sierra Transit Authority Bus (ESTA). Transfer in Mammoth or Lee Vining to Yosemite Area Rapid Transit (YARTS) and you will be in Yosemite Valley by noon. It will cost around 60 dollars. You could spend a day in the valley and then catch a YARTS bus to Merced to the AMTRAK train station which will get you to SF. There you can hook up to BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit subway) and you can go directly to the Oakland or San Francisco airports. Sorry I don't know the logistics of that leg but you can google it. I live 2.5 hours from Yosemite by car but I have used YARTS and ESTA around the Sierra. The valley is crowded but the sight of half dome, El Capitan and the waterfalls are amazing. The petition I was talking about is to keep our orange leader from visiting your country. He's already frozen 9000 summer seasonal jobs for our national parks so they will be seriously short staffed this summer.

[@kahoonaskid]

Oh that petition. I didnt sign it but only so we can shout at him when he gets here. I think he should be exposed to as much criticism as possible.If you like we could lock him up in the Tower! Thanks for your advice on the trail. I may have some more questions for you at a later date. Thanks again and good luck with Tango man(google Tango man if you dont have it in the US)

[@zentaoist76]

Thanks so much for the tips! I'm looking into your south north option that you discuss at the end of your video. I'm unclear about the JMT trail after you summit Mt. Whitney. I'm getting my permit through recreation.gov. Do I need to apply for another permit to continue on the JMT from Cottonwood pass or does that one permit work for the whole thing? Also, what do I put as my exit point?

[@ApeMan]

+zentaoist76 That's the beauty of entering at cottonwood pass. They are available online now and that permit is good for the entire trip as far as you want to go. I would suggest Seki - rock creek for your 1st night, Seki Crabtree for night 2 and 3, Seki - tyndall for night 3, Seki Kearsarge Lakes, Seki - Rae lakes.....they really don't care after that as long as you exit within a day or 2 of your exit date at Happy Isles in Yosemite Valley. When you pick up the permit the rangers will help you with the details but get the reservation now and put your best guess for campsites. Try to get to Crabtree on day 2. Get up early on day 3 and leave your camp set up and day hikei to the top of Mt Whitney. From the top of Whitney you now are officially starting the trail northbound. Hike back to Crabtree at your already set up camp and rest and get a good nights sleep. Day 4 you are now all JMT and just camp wherever you want or what your body tells you to do. You will need to resupply at Onion Valley by going out to the trailhead at Kearsarge Pass. Check out the Mt Williamson Hotel in Independence for that service or Parchers resort at the Onion Valley trailhead. From there your next resupply points are MTR, VVR and then Reds Meadow. The INYO rangers actually answer the phone so you can call them with any questions about your permit at 760-873-2483. The trail is tougher with this option because you won't have time to get used to the altitude. Try to sleep at the cottonwood / horseshoe meadows trailhead for 1 night before your trip. It's at 10,000 feet so that will help a little. You will be over 10k for the 1st couple weeks so bring a lot of aspirin and stay hydrated. You will run into a lot of people coming the other direction but not many going your direction so the trail family thing is harder to form on a north bound trip. But you get plenty of chances to ask people about trail conditions and sweet campspots. Have fun!

[@zentaoist76]

+Ape Man Just booked the trip thanks to you!!! What a relief!! I am traveling from Ohio, do you have any tips on closest airports and transportation to the trailhead? Thanks again for all the info.

[@ApeMan]

+zentaoist76 Well the closest airport is the small Mammoth airport that has limited flights. Since you are starting from the East side of the Sierra and doing a NOBO here is what I would do. You could come in through LA but it's confusing. I would fly into Reno. From there you can take Eastern Sierra Transit (ESTA) which leaves the airport at 1:30PM and arrives in Lone Pine at 7:40pm. Note that this bus only runs once a day and only on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. At Lone Pine check into the Dow Villa or the Whitney Hostel and get some rest. If you are using butane fuel cartridges you will need to find a store in Lone Pine to buy those - there are several. In the morning you need to pick up your permit. The eastern sierra interagency visitor center is 1 mile outside of the south end of town so hitch or walk. It's actually a cool permit office dedicated to Mt Whitney and this is where the day hikers get their permits also and there will be lots of them. While in line start chatting with everyone so you can ask for a ride. People will be friendly. You may be lucky to find someone going to the cottonwood horseshoe meadows trailhead but if someone is going to the portal settle for that ride to at least the junction of the Whitney Portal Horseshoe meadows road. In the morning it won't take long to catch a ride there. I've hitch hiked around there many times. There is some construction on the portal road this year that will limit traffic so ask the ranger for some shuttle service #'s just in case. I would try to spend 1 night at the trailhead to try to get used to the altitude but if you hit the trail that day you may want to just do a short day to Chicken Springs lake over Cottonwood Pass. Now going home you can take Yarts to Lee Vining and spend the night there and connect with ESTA back to Reno. Or a better option is to leave from a different airport which will be closer and you can get there in 1 day. Your choices are Fresno, Oakland, San Francisco or Sacramento. You will take YARTS from Yosemite Valley which will take you to the AMTRAK train station in Merced. On AMTRAK you can connect to all these airports. Oakland and SF involve a transfer to BART in Emeryville and Sacramento has a bus connection. I really know nothing about the Fresno connection. You will have to look at their websites for times and schedules. You can start your trip from these airports too but I think Reno is easier for a NOBO start. If you haven't been to SF why not go through that airport and spend a day in the city. You never thought a hiking trip was so complicated did you? It's worth it.

[@ApeMan]

+zentaoist76 One other thing - the campgrounds at the horseshoe and Cottonwood trailheads have a 1 night limit and tend to fill up. You want to stay at the cottonwood pass campground. They are very close to each other and at 10,000 feet so great for acclimatizing. A lot of Whitney day hikers camp here for that reason so you may score a ride from a Whitney hiker. If they are full just squeeze your tent in anywhere in the camp boundaries. The rangers don't care. Ask someone if they mind you squeezing in. There is plenty of room. If it's jam packed just set your tent up and mosey on over to the picnic area right next door where nobody will be. You can eat dinner and breakfast there and organize your gear in the picnic area and just sleep in your tent. The easy part of this trip begins when you finally start hiking. Cottonwood Pass will be the easiest pass of your whole trip.

[@dylanoneill298]

+Ape Man Thanks for all of this help!! It's been great. I am amazed at how easy it was to get a permit coming in from the south. I wanted to ask you about resupply stops when hiking from the south. I've done some searching but there is not as much info on south to north trips, especially concerning resupply. Any tips?

[@carriesummers538]

Hi, Thank you for the advice about the JMT permit. I have continued to apply daily and have been rejected every time. Off the top of my head, I would estimate that I have applied for the JMT permit 30 times. I will continue to apply,, but I suspect that it will be too cold to hike soon. I am planning a 10-14 day trip. While I wait to see if I will get the permit, I would like to pursue the idea of planning an alternative hike. I understand that most of the PCT does not require a permit to hike. Can you recommend some other hikes on the PCT that would last for 10-14 days with some resupply stop(s)? This is my first long distance hike, but I am energized to prepare. I would appreciate your suggestions.

[@timothybanek1844]

Hey Ape Man, Thanks for your informative video. I've watched it a few times. I've been applying for a wilderness permit reservation each day for the last 25 days through Yosemite NP. I entered Happy Isles trail heads and Glacier Pt and even tried Lyell Canyon as one of my choices a couple of times to no avail. I suspect the 40/day Donahue Pass Quota is likely the problem. Do you think that there might be any Inyo NF reservations remaining even though it is less than six months out? I am from Missouri, 62 years old and will never be in better condition than I am right now and really would like to do At least some of the JMT and Whitney this season. I suspect avoiding Donahue Pass and exiting Whitney Portal will give me my best odds. Will it do any good to try to get a Inyo NF reservation, since I am less than six months out? Any guidance or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Tim

[@ApeMan]

+Tim Banek Well since you are from Missouri I have to help you since that is where my lovely girlfriend is from. There are TONS of Inyo trailheads in August reservable now on recreation.gov that will get you 170+ miles of JMT goodness. Rush Creek, River Trail and Duck Pass are all good trailheads that will put you on the JMT on the other side of Donahue Pass and all have good availability in August. There is a problem at this late date getting the trail exit permit to finish your trip at Whitney Portal so skip that mess and end your trip at cottonwood pass. Go on recreation.gov - enter "Inyo National Forest" in the search box and in the next screen choose permits on the left side of the screen. Next choose the option "overnight visiting Mt Whitney" and then all the trailheads will pop up. You still get to go to the top of Whitney but you have to backtrack 8 miles to the PCT and get 25 miles of bonus trail exiting at Cottonwood Pass or the more adventurous New Army pass. It's not a bad option and takes in some of the very best and more remote sections of the JMT. Let me know if you have any questions.

[@timothybanek1844]

+Ape Man Guess what! I was just was notified today that I got a reservation from Happy Isles exiting at Whitney Portal. I also got a half dome trail permit. Will it be difficult to start at Happy Isles, do half dome trail and still make it to Little Yosemite Valley to camp all on the first day before nightfall? I will have to start investigating best places for resupply next. I'm from near Jefferson City, where does your gf live? Thanks, Tim

[@ApeMan]

+Tim Banek Awesome! The GF lives here in California with me but is from Springfield originally. Little Yosemite Valley is 4.7 miles from happy isles. What you want to do is drop most of your stuff in LYV in your campspot and then do half dome and return back to your campspot at the end of the day. Easy to do in a day if you start reasonably early. There is no water between LYV and half dome so fill up in LYV. What's cool about camping in LYV is you can be on half dome late in the day after all the day hiker crowds have left. I never tire of the cables on half dome - been up there 5 times. It's a thrill and a great way to start of your trip. Beware of thunderstorms or rain when doing half dome late in the day. Congrats on the permit and go Mizzou!

[@timothybanek1844]

Thanks for the tip on Half Dome! That sounds like a good plan. I worked for the Missouri Dept of Conservation in Springfield for 25 years prior to moving to Jefferson City for a promotion. I see that you are an angler. Is it worth taking a fly rod to catch trout and supplement the food supply with fish?

[@ApeMan]

+Tim Banek Absolutely! Fishing is great all along the JMT. I use a 5 piece ultra light rod and tiny spinning reel with 4 pound test. The fish are small but pack a nice protein punch. I use a plastic bubble/fly setup so I can take advantage of the early morning and evening rises. I mostly use lures like panther martins, kastmasters and thomas buoyants. Check out Tenkara lightweight fly set ups for a lightweight fly fishing option. Cooking can be a problem because campfires aren't legal along much of the trail and cooking on a butane stove means carrying more fuel. I use a thing called a bakepacker which allows you to cook fish in a pot of water - like steaming. Works great. On fire nights wrap in foil with butter, butter buds, ghee or olive oil and a little lemon pepper and cook right on the coals. Pack out your foil. Pinch down your barbs if fishing for fun so you can catch and release.

[@carriesummers538]

Hi, thank you so much for your response. I have a few more questions about the permit, as I am concerned that I am not filling out the permit properly. I have flexible start dates, only have 1 other person hiking with me, and we are willing to start at whatever trailhead we need to get a permit. I would prefer to hike north to south so the sun is not in our eyes. But, if we have to hike south to north, we will. My question pertains to the exit trailheads; can we exit from any trailhead-even if it’s not an YNPS trailhead? I have not found any research that says we cannot exit from whatever trailhead we like. I ask because my permit entry and exit trailheads do not seem to be correct in light of what you sent me in your response as possible trailheads… You said possible trailheads options would be HI > LYV, HI > Pass Through and Glacier Point > LYV. Do I always have to list Little Yosemite Valley as my exiting trailhead? We are not hiking the entire JMT and we want to cover around 150 miles of the JMT. I am trying to apply for a permit at trailheads that are not as popular. (I apologize if my questions are complicated, but I have never applied for the JMT before and I want to make sure my permit is correct.) I listed the 3 entry and exit trailhead options I have put on my permit. Can you please make sure my permit options are permissible? Option 1: Entry trailhead: Tenaya Lakes/Sunrise Lakes Exit trailhead: Bishop Pass Option 2: Entry trailhead: Lyell Canyon Exit trailhead: Bishop Pass Option 3: Entry trailhead: Glacier Point Exit trailhead: Muir Trail Ranch The question about exiting from Donohue Pass on the permit… I have to mark “yes” based on my trailhead schedule above, correct? I don't need to get any additional permits besides the Yosemite NPS permit, based on my trailhead options, correct? THANK YOU! Apologies about the length of this post.

[@ApeMan]

+Carrie Summers No problem I think I confused you with my abbreviations. Little Yosemite Valley is never an exit trailhead. That is what comes up in the dropdown menu on the permit form. So your option 3 from on the form for entry trailhead from the drop down Menu would be "Glacier Point > Little Yosemite Valley" and your exit trailhead would be "Bishop Pass/South Lake" All 3 options look correct. Make sure your 1st nights camp location is correct. For your option 1 you need to put either little yosemite Valley or Clouds rest junction. For option 2 you can put lyell forks For option 3 you have to put little yosemite valley for it to be valid. You do need to mark the yes button for donahue pass. And yes the permit for Yosemite NPS is the only one you need for the whole trail. I would actually choose Whitney Portal as my exit trailhead on all 3 of your options since it will not impact your ability to get selected for the permit. That way you can go as far as you want and it is always legal to exit anywhere before Whitney Portal. If you don't mind skipping Yosemite and Donahue pass and want a reservation that you can book right now You can start right on the other side of Donahue pass at a trailhead called rush creek. You will see the very best of the JMT. You could do rush creek to Kearsarge Lakes and exit over Kearsarge pass for an awesome 150 mile stretch. I checked availability on recreation.gov for August 3rd and there are 7 spots bookable right now and many other dates in that timeframe available. Their website is even more confusing than Yosemite's so let me know if you have any questions booking that. With just 2 of you on the permit you should score a Yosemite permit so keep on trying!

[@thekelvin5000]

Ape man, Thanks for the video, but I think you may have underestimated the amount of people applying for permits this year. I've been putting in applications every day for the past 3 weeks and have been turned down every day. I check the Cottonwood option going south to north and there are also no available permits. I'm from Georgia and I can't just fly out there in hope of possibly getting a pass...I need a for sure thing and also time to send resupply packages. I believe there are just too many people trying to hike the trail. Thanks for the video anyway.

[@ApeMan]

+Kurt Fox The Cottonwood Pass option is more popular this year due to the crowds and word is getting out. However I just checked and right now reservations can be had right now for that option with start dates from August 12th - 24th. The ones after the 24th aren't reservable yet because they are outside of the reservable 6 month window. Every day 24 spots will open up - so tomorrow 24 spots open up on August 25th - the next day 24 more on the 26th etc. There are also 16 walk up permits for this option available on a daily basis which I guarantee you could get if you showed up at the permit office at 7am the day before your hike unless you have a group of 12 or something? There is even a nearby trail head called Trail pass - GT62 that starts off the same road as the Cottonwood Pass trailhead. This trail has no quota and you can get it everyday just by showing up at a permit office. It is lightly used and puts you on the trail a little south of cottonwood pass. I didn't mention this one because I didn't think it necessary since I am that confident in getting on the trail via cottonwood as a walkup. I hope that helps your confidence level of getting a permit. Give the Inyo National Forest permit office a call at [phone] for any questions. This is a different agency than Yosemite and they will actually answer the phone. I just checked another trailhead that starts a half mile from the Cottonwood Pass Trailhead of the same road (Horseshoe Meadows Road) and it has oodles off reservable quota right now! I actually think it's a much more scenic option and it takes you over New Army Pass instead of Cottonwood Pass and is maybe 5 miles longer. You pass 6 lakes instead of 1 by the time you meet up with the cottonwood pass trail at Rock creek. The downside is it is a little harder and higher so you have to be concerned with altitude sickness. On the recreation.gov site this is called Cottonwood Lakes JM39. Let me know if you have any questions. I know the recreation.gov site is hard to navigate. Check the other comments on this video for more info - I went into more detail with (Kathie Dixon - Wallace) on the recreation.gov process and I think that will answer a lot of your questions.

[@thekelvin5000]

+Ape Man Wow! Thanks Ape Man. You are the permit God! :) My brother and I will try for that route but I really wasn't wanting to go South to North. We're about your age and although we are very experienced backpackers, our knees aren't what they used to be. Email me if you get a chance, I'd love to pick your brain about the trail. I mainly hike in the Appalachian Mountains here in the southeast and I could use the advise. My email is [e-mail].

[@thekelvin5000]

+Ape Man You are THE MAN! Got my permits and will be hitting the trail on August 12th. I now bow to the permit god! Thanks again!

[@ApeMan]

+Kurt Fox Awesome!! It's late there in Georgia so go to bed and dream about the trail! Glad it worked out. You are going on a trip of a lifetime! I hope you and your brother like each other a lot! Sweet dreams!

[@MrDrDemento]

With regards to ending our JMT trip at Horseshoe Meadow, do you know if we are able to park a vehicle there for the 25 (or so) days we'll need to transit the JMT? Were we to exit via Whitney Portal there would not be a problem either parking there or thumbing into the Dow Villa in Lone Pine. The relative remoteness of Horseshoe Meadow presents a car shuttle challenge. If there is a blog on the subject I'd appreciate a steer in that direction.

[@ApeMan]

You can park a vehicle at Horseshoe Meadows for 25 days. There are multiple strategies. Not sure how big your group is but early afternoon it should be fairly easy to hitch a ride out of horseshoe meadows as other hikers end their trips. You will meet people on the trail and a lot of times you can bum a ride from them. I once gave some guys a ride at the end of a trip at whitney portal that I ended up hiking with for 3 days. They had left their car at Horseshoe Meadows. It's much harder to hitch from Lone Pine up to Horseshoe Meadows. I did that once and it took an hour - you have to get to the junction 1st where the horseshoe meadows road leaves the whitney portal road. It's nice to have the car waiting for you at the end of your trip. If just one of you takes it up there in the morning you'll have all day to get back to Lone Pine to catch the 6:30am ESTA bus the next day to get to your starting point.

[@thehovable]

If I want to start in Tuolumne Meadows and head south, is Lyell Canyon the appropriate trailhead to mark on the application? Thanks for the tips! Appreciate it.

[@ApeMan]

+Ryan H Yes. If you have a permit you can stay 1 night in the backpackers campground in Tuolumne Meadows the day before your hike. You might also want to put Sunrise Lakes trailhead as your 2nd choice to increase your chances of getting a reservation. That would be a long 1 day or short 2 day hike back to Tuolumne Meadows. Remember they do 10 walkup permits a day at Tuolumne if you can't get a reservation but you would have to get in line very early the day before your start with no guarantees. If you are a small group your chances are better.

[@vintagevagabondvegan]

Thanks! Great info. The permit process is very confusing but that certainly clears it up quite a bit.

[@Mylife-tp7gv]

Thanks Ape Man I was able to get a permit starting at Duck pass and exiting Mt Whitney. Aug 6-22. What would you recommend for places to camp at.

[@ApeMan]

+Derek Ogren That's a great starting point. I haven't come in that way but I've heard it's a great start and it saves you all that climbing out of Reds Meadow to purple Lake. That was one of my least favorite days. 16 days will give you plenty of time to enjoy the trail. It's 9.5 on your route to Purple Lake. It would be a long 1st day but if you just go 2-3 miles further you could get to spectacular Virginia Lake and camp there. Purple is OK but a little crowded. I got buzzed by a bald eagle at Virginia Lake and there is a lot of great uncrowded camping there. I would just advise you to stop and enjoy places you like. It's all great on the stretch you are doing. A couple 0 days would be nice when you find a spot you like. I like camping high for the alpenglow off the mountains and the vistas and it gets you away from the mosquitoes. Some favorite camp spots are anywhere around Evolution Lakes, McClure Meadow, Leconte Canyon, Lower Palisade Lake, the highest tree line before Forester Pass, Marjorie Lake, take the side trail to Bench lake, Rae Lakes. There are so many great spots. Some get a little crowded so if you want solitude just find a likely spot and head off the trail a couple hundred yards and setup camp. That's sometimes how you find the best spots. A dry camp away from water on a ridge guarantees solitude but you have to carry in water first. I tend not to have a fixed agenda and just see where the trail and my body takes me. Of course it's nice to camp close to the next day's pass so that sometimes decides for you. It's very exposed but a night on the bighorn plateau would be spectacular and uncrowded. The views are amazing there and it's one of the more remote areas of the JMT and the night sky is something you will never forget.

[@FallenTrooperr]

As of now, I have a reservation to start the JMT Northbound starting in Cottonwood Pass. Do you think I should be heavily concerned on snow or is it to early to know that? I am a decently experienced hiker, but this would be my biggest trip and the snow is my only huge concern.

[@ApeMan]

+FallenTrooperr What is your start date? It's snowing today but right now we are a little below average on snowpack but we are expecting a few feet with this series of storms. It's really hard to tell until June what it will be like.

[@FallenTrooperr]

+Ape Man Sorry I didn't mention that! I thought I did. I made it sound like I'm going soon. My start day is July 10th. I plan to let myself acclimate the first night, and the next morning head for the summit of Whitney. Then just do the whole JMT Northbound route ending around Aug 1st. I am not very experienced at all with snow. I just want to be prepared.

[@ApeMan]

+FallenTrooperr As long as we don't go well above average on snowpack you should be ok. Forester pass could be dicey but should have a good boot track from the PCT hikers. A couple stream crossings could be interesting. Don't cross alone and make sure your pack is unbuckled. You know that the top of Whitney is around 30 miles from the cottonwood pass trailhead? It will take you 2 days to get to Crabtree Meadows. From there setup camp and do Whitney as a day hike and then return to your already setup camp for another night. From there you continue north on the JMT. It's easier to walk on frozen snow so hit the snow areas on the passes in the morning. You will need hiking poles at the very least for the snow. Just be careful and you should be ok. Look for the PCT blogs for snow conditions. The ranger stations have trail info but from my experience it's always a week or 2 behind on current conditions. July is great for wildflowers and water and waterfalls everywhere. Mosquitoes will be a nuisance so choose your camps wisely. tay away from meadows and lake shores. Windy rocky ridges are the best.

[@kathydixon-wallace238]

Thanks for the tips video. I have been faxing everyday for a JMT this past week, all three trail heads, ( for permit last week June, beginning July) rejection every night. So I have been looking for alternate routes. Just found your video and I am looking to enter via Cottonwood Pass and go north, but the Recreation. Gov website says I can only get a permit for 14 days, and I need to list campsites for each day, have you run into this? I was hoping for 16-18 days. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

[@ApeMan]

+Kathy Dixon-Wallace Recreation.gov can be confusing. When you 1st select your permit of choice and the date that 2 week window pops up with all the A's or R's. Click on the A (available) start date you want and then hit the "book permit" button below. This will pop up the actual permit info you need to input. The 3rd line down is the exit date which defaults to your start date. Click in that box and a calendar will pop up and you can choose the exit date you want. That's when the window pops up asking for all your destinations. They really only care about the 1st couple of nights so just do your best guess with the rest. For your 1st night you will want either chicken springs lake or SEKI-rock creek. For the 2nd night a ridiculous # of options pop up some a 100 miles away. They are alphabetical. Go to the ones that start with SEKI - as those are the ones that will apply to the southern JMT. Your 2nd and 3rd nights would probably be SEKI - Crabtree. From there just estimate. For a 20 day trip your next approximate camps would be SEKI-Tyndal, SEKI-center basin, SEKI -Kearsarge Lakes, SEKI-Rae Lakes, SEKI - Woods Creek etc..... As a general rule with wilderness permits, at least here in California, after your 1st night you can camp anywhere you want so just do the best you can on the permit. When you pick it up at the ranger station they can tweak it for you and explain in greater detail. The important thing is you will have a reservation for your start date and 1st nights camp. I noticed the reservable ones are filling faster than usual but there are still LOTS available. Should your planning fall through you can score walkups pretty easy but having a reservation makes it a lot easier and one less worry on a trip that requires a lot of planning. By the way what start date are you choosing? Starting from the south early can make snow travel a certainty so keep an eye on the conditions. Forester pass can be dicey early in the season and you would hit that on day 4 or 5 on your trip so be careful out there!

[@kumoh9118]

whats best to fly in from out of state? Fresno or reno? How many days in advance? Can you pick up permit on weekends? So many things to work out.......inlaw just tells me they may not make RV trip west this summerwith us, that means I have three week open on July 18th, not sure it would be enough time line to make trip and make back to work? What do yo think or sugest???

[@ApeMan]

+Kum Oh If you are starting in Yosemite Valley or Tuolumne Meadows then Fresno, Sacramento, Oakland or San Francisco will all work. It's all a matter of getting on an Amtrak train and getting to Merced where you connect with the YARTS bus. You can also get there from Reno by taking Eastern Sierra Transit to Lee Vining and then transferring to a YARTS bus in Lee Vining but that takes 2 days unless you hitch hike from Lee Vining. You can work it out to get to Yosemite in 1 day if you make all the connections from some airports but it may take 2 depending on your flights. You have to get back to the airport from Lone Pine at the end and if you fly out of Reno you can catch the 6:15 am ESTA bus in front of the McDonalds at 6:15 am and get to Reno in 1 day. You transfer once to another ESTA bus in Bishop. ESTA only runs Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday and not at all on weekends. With travel that leaves you about 16 - 17 days to hike which is strenuous. I would try to start from Tuolumne Meadows which would make it a leisurely 10-11 miles a day instead of 13 - 14 starting from Happy Isles.

[@Sfey3386]

Thanks for all you're help. Do they ask for the names of your party on the permit? If I have a permit for 3 can names change if some cancel but I pick up someone else or do they want those names up front? If I have a permit for glacier to LYV can I skip that route and just go to LYV from happy isles? How is that regulated? Thanks

[@ApeMan]

+Steven Feyers Here is the permit request form. www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/wildpermitform.pdf You'll notice they only ask for the name of the trip leader. The others can change but only the trip leader can pick up the permit. If you have glacier as a start then you have to start there. You will be fined heavily if caught starting from happy isles. You will come across rangers sporadically on the trail and they will always ask to see or feel your bear canister and sometimes ask to see your permit. Once I was checked 3 times before Donahue pass. In 2014 I was checked once the entire trip by a forest service worker. Chatted with several wilderness rangers, including the one legged guy stationed at Charlotte Lake and none asked for my permit. I think Glacier Point is a better start to the JMT anyway. Way less climbing and spectacular vistas. Happy Isles is sooo crowded. The mist trail is awesome but the JMT skips that anyway. I asked for glacier as my preferred start but got rejected and got my 2nd choice of happy isles. The climb from Yosemite Valley to Tuolumne meadows is one of the bigger elevation gains of the whole trip so I would covet that glacier start. You do know the reservation window is now out to mid September start times? The demand should be way down.

[@robm4040]

Probably a simple answer, but if denied and you resubmit your permit request should you keep the same start date or advance it each time you apply? Thanks in advance. :)

[@ApeMan]

+Rob M Yes once a day is full it stays full and you need to refax the next day for a start date one day out. Refer to this calendar to make sure you are requesting the right date exactly 168 days out. www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermitdates.htm

[@SummitSeeker546]

My daughter is looking to join me from Reds Meadow to Yosemite. If I get the permit I want I'll reach RM on Saturday Sept 10. Apparently YARTS only runs on the weekend in Sept. Is that the same for RM shuttle? Also is drop off/pick up for both buses at the Mammoth Mtn Adventure Center? Lastly we want to avoid the RM crowds. Any recommendations on campsites that night? Trinity, Gladys or Rosalie lakes?

[@ApeMan]

+Summit Seeker Bad news on the Devils postpile / Reds shuttle. It stops running after Labor Day. The Mammoth buses still run up to the shuttle area. The YARTS bus does pick up and drop off in the same area by Mammoth Mountain Inn/adventure ctr. Not sure how you feel about her hitchhiking. If she had a car she could drive down - it's allowed when the shuttle stops running. The crowds thin considerably after labor day. I would not stay in the backpackers campground but you can reserve a car campground and have it to yourself and still be able to stroll over to Reds for restocking and the Mulehouse Cafe. They also have very nice cabins for $85 which give you a chance to clean up and sleep in a bed. I like your idea of avoiding the crowds altogether. The only reason Trinity is a camping area is because it's the only place in that area and not scenic at all. Gladys is not much better but Rosalie is really nice so shoot for that if you can make it. Reds to Rosalie is one of the duller, dustier stretches of the JMT but after Rosalie it is dramatic the rest of the way.

[@SummitSeeker546]

How late in the season are Reds Meadow & MTR open? I'm looking to do the JMT late in the season but need to know when they close down. Thx!

[@ApeMan]

+Summit Seeker Reds stays open until September 30th unless they get an early snow. MTR usually starts closing down early to mid September so that is the more important one. I would contact them on when the latest you could pick up a resupply. Contact info is on their website. If they are closed your best resupply options are to hike out to Bishop via Pauite Pass to the North Lake Trailhead or Kearsarge Pass to the Onion Valley Trailhead and then to the town of Independence. Unlikely early snows could close those roads so it is an issue if going late September to early October. Check Vermillion Vally Resort as another option. Not sure when they close. You could have Danica from Parchers resort do a horse resupply at Kearsarge Pass area. It's a pricey option but worth it if you need it. I think it's around $350ish?

[@SummitSeeker546]

+Ape Man: great news. Also I just checked MTR website and either I just missed it or they updated their website. They now state they close on Sept 17 this year which works for my trip. Appreciate your prompt response and appreciate your informed videos! Can't wait to get my trail trance on...

[@williammurray7717]

If you are so fortunate to land a permit to start in July, can you still apply later for an August start and cancel the July permit? Also, is there a place where I can get info on snow predictions for this summer?

[@ApeMan]

Yes. I would apply every day until I score a permit. Please cancel the earlier one if you do manage to get a later permit. Rules were supposed to change this year but with the 6 month window already putting us into June it appears they will stay the same for another year. Snow is hard to predict. It's not just how much we get but how late in the season we get snow and the speed of the spring thaw. I was at Rae Lakes the last weekend of July in 2011 and the passes were still hairy with lots of snow. With the drought the passes have been clear late June. So far this year the snowpack is good. You really can't start guessing until May how the trails will be. Best source for trail info is the PCT hikers blogs. They should start hitting the JMT in May.

[@xxdrifter925xx]

Trying to hike tuolumne meadows to South Lake Tahoe, can you point me in the right direction for finding a permit? Also, we're thinking of starting mid July, what do you think the passes will look like on the pct? Thanks is advance!

[@ApeMan]

Sure! First you have to decide if you want to do the more travelled PCT version or the older less travelled Tahoe Yosemite trail. They are the same for about 1/3 of the total. If you start in Yosemite you get your permit from the Tuolumne Meadows wilderness office which is the same place to get a JMT permit. Much easier permit to get than a JMT but easier for planning if you get a reservation but walkups on weekdays especially can be had. If starting in Tahoe in Desolation Wilderness you get your permit online through recreation.gov - here. www.recreation.gov/wildernessAreaDetails.do?contractCode=NRSO&parkId=72202 Beautiful country and lots of solitude. Both ends are the most spectacular with the middle still beautiful but stark. You'll definitely be in some snow with our heavy snow year. I don't think the passes will be a problem other than potholing so time your passes for the AM when the snow is still hard. Your bigger concern is high stream crossings with all the snow melt. Brush up on your stream crossing skills and follow the PCT blogs for the latest conditions. This is a great alternative to the hoards of people doing the JMT. I've only done about a 1/3 of the TYT so can't answer all your questions. It's awesome. I may do Sonora to Tuolumne this summer. Check out LandmarkAdventures videos of the Tahoe Yosemite Trail. She's a weirdo like me but she makes great videos and is pretty funny. She lives just down the road from me. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHvNdnmvqpKAnJI

[@vlad0tube]

+Ape Man . We have a group of 5 people trying to hike SOBO starting anytime between mid-August to mid-September. We are trying to decide if its better to apply as 5 or break our group up into 2 and 3 and then meet up on the trail. What are your thoughts about our chances in general? What route would you suggest? We are ok with just about any option as long as we can reserve it in advance. Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[@ApeMan]

+vlad0tube The only way to easily reserve in advance is to start from the south at Horseshoe meadows and get the reservation through recreation.gov. What you do have going for you is a big window to keep trying. With a 90% failure rate the odds of you getting 2 permits within a couple days of each other is low so I would just keep it at 5 and keep trying. When they first start going through the pile your request for 5 has as good a chance as any until they get to the last 5 on that day's quota. So if there are only 4 spots left and they chose yours then it would be rejected so your odds aren't that much better splitting it up. Just make sure you are putting in 3 options to increase your odds. The HI to LYV, HI pass through and Glacier Point are the 3 choices starting from Yosemite Valley. Keep trying and you should get it. The midweek start dates are a little less competitive and by the end of August / early September demand goes way down and it's my favorite time to be in the Sierra. Good luck!

[@raceyro]

Lets say I start at rush creek. I have visiting Mt Whitney checked on the permit and exiting cottonwood pass. What happens if you leave the trail after you summit Mt. Whitney and do not continue on?

[@ApeMan]

+raceyro You can leave the trail anywhere after Rush Creek - except at Whitney Portal over trail crest. There tends to be a ranger patrolling Whitney quite often. It's usually Rob who is stationed at Crabtree and he is a seasoned veteran who knows all the tricks. The trail crest permit is this piece of paper that attaches to the outside of your pack while you are in the whitney zone so rangers can see it even without asking. The permits originating from Yosemite do not have this requirement. You could backtrack and leave over shepards pass to the north or just continue to cottonwood which is the easiest and fastest. New Army Pass is the best one to come out in my opinion. You can easily bag another 14k peak on the way out (Mt Langley) and it's really scenic with a lot of lakes.

[@mariaalanis7649]

Hello! Thank you for your help. I want to do half the jmt hike starting from Vermillion Valley, going North and finishing in Happy Isles. I want to meet a friend who's thru-hiking and starting from Cottonwood pass. Is this permit available? How can I get it?

[@mariaalanis7649]

I found another way I could reach my friend and I've found availability on the permits. I could see her on Taboose pass, do you know how I could get there?

[@MrDrDemento]

Hi Apeman, I have watched this video many times (thanks BTW) - but get confused when looking over the permit application page on the INYO NF web site. The horizon for choosing a START date (Rush Cr - exiting Mt.Whitney) is exactly 6 months. Today is January 27. Say I am able to select a start date on that 6-month moment in time (Apply on January 27 for a July 27 start). I anticipate 25 days to reach and exit Mt.Whitney. That date would be August 20. Those 25 days are in the future and "X'd" out, I cannot apply yet. So it "appears" on the web site that I must wait for the 6-month horizon for my requested exit date and apply for THAT when it becomes selectable. Do I understand this correctly? I must apply a second time - for the EXIT date? Sorry for the long-winded question... -Chris

[@ApeMan]

First of all I love your moniker. Used to listen to DR D every Sunday night on the radio. Great stuff! The top 10! God you must be old like me. You are not too confused on the Whitney exit permit. What you have to do is go in EXACTLY 6 months from your exit date on Whitney. Hope that there is still space for the Rush Creek entrance and then be ready at exactly 7am pacific time and try to snag the exit permits. They will be gone within 2-3 minutes. They will show an X as unavailable but keep trying right at 7 and they should pop up as A and then grab them. There are no walkups so this is your only option. If you can't get one then you can choose Overnight visiting Mt Whitney instead and just exit at Cottonwood Pass. You camp at Crabtree Meadows and day hike Whitney and then just continue on the PCT and come out at Horseshoe Meadows. It adds 25 miles and will probably require that you resupply at Onion Valley. Think of it as bonus time on the trail. Whitney summit to Whitney Portal is not a section of trail I like because of the crowds and trash and it's a brutal 7k drop. Let me know if that makes sense.

[@MrDrDemento]

Yes. It absolutely makes sense (now). Get the the exit permits first! Thank you! And yes, myself and my 2 high school buddies that plan to accompany me on the JMT are old. Perhaps older even than you! BTW, I used to live in Granite Bay near Folsom which I gather is where you call home. Anyway, because we're old, we are also retired and have date ranges we can play with so I may just camp out on the Inyo NF website for a few mornings and try to make this happen. Otherwise we will do plan "B" (visit Mt. Whitney). Then of course there is always the Yosemite lottery with the new 21-day start day range. Got my application all ready to fax. Thanks again. Your videos are great!

[@xxkasperxx]

Okay ...so regarding the 168 days ...does the day you send it count ?!

[@ApeMan]

Yes - I think they have a 3day window so you don't have to be exact.

[@carriesummers538]

I have one last question. My debit card has been charged from Yosemite Valley NPS but I have not received an e-mail about getting awarded the permit or reservation for the JMT. It has been a few days since the charge appeared, so I am wondering how many days it usually takes to get the reservation notification after your card is charged? I apologize for all my questions, it just takes a lot of dedication to get a JMT permit this year!

[@ApeMan]

+Carrie Summers No problem. It appears congratulations are in order if your credit card has been charged - you have a JMT permit. You should have gotten an e-mail the day it was charged. They must have a problem with your e-mail address. Call 'em up and get your reservation info. Have fun!

[@CelestrialVision]

going NOBO from Line Pine with walk on permit for JMT, are you able to exit thru to happy isles?

[@ApeMan]

I'm assuming by Lone Pine you mean Horseshoe Meadows and not the main Mt Whitney Trail. No restrictions going north bound. You can summit Whitney from Crabtree Meadows or Guitar lake side. It even gives you the right to climb half dome although it's not specified on the permit.

[@ajdmail1999]

The only time that I can do the trail is the first few weeks of July, because of school. Is that still a good idea for a first timer (I have been backpacking before just not in deep snow or on this trail)? I really want to do it but that is when fits. Any suggestions?

[@ApeMan]

+Alex Dunn You should be ok but keep an eye on the weather. If we get a really big snow year like it's shaping up to be then it could be difficult. The passes will all have snow for sure. Just try to cross the passes in the morning when the snow is still frozen. Know how to read a compass and map or a GPS as navigation will be a little harder but there should be a good boot track to follow in the snow sections. Most importantly know how to cross a stream and unbuckle your pack before crossing. The bigger passes are in the southern section so if you can start from Yosemite then that will give you a couple more weeks for those to melt out. Make sure you bring hiking poles - they help a lot in the snow.

[@ajdmail1999]

Ok that is great advice. Thanks so much

[@augustofaria1776]

Thinking about doing a trip 2017, with my son and dad. I'm considering starting in the south an coming north. Any advise is appreciated.

[@ApeMan]

+Augusto Faria Did you watch my JMT tips video and the one about food? Check those out and let me know if you have any questions.

[@carriesummers538]

Hi, I appreciated your video about the JMT. I am trying to apply for a JMT permit and I have a question that I need answered as soon as possible, please, please. I want to make sure that I am submitting my permit correctly. I know that to apply for a permit I need to use the Yosemite NPS calendar, apply 186 days in advance, by fax etc. I have done a lot of research and found out that I have to submit the permit between 12:01am and 7:30am PST. But I am confused about what day exactly to send the permit. The Yosemite NPS website says that it accepts permits the day before they are processed. But do I apply 24 hours in advance or 7ish hours in advance of the fax processing? For example, if I am applying for a permit with a start date of August 3rd, do I apply for the permit at 2:01am (my time) on February 16th... or at 12:01am on February 15th? Or does it not matter and the lottery is accepted during this entire period for an August 3rd start date? I have flexible start dates THIS year and REALLY want to hike the JMT, but my permit has been rejected 5 times already and I'm worried that it could be because I am not sending the fax at the appropriate time.

[@ApeMan]

+Carrie Summers OK - here's the scoop. 5 times rejected is unfortunately not unusual so keep trying. If you are a large group it is harder to get the permit. August is the busiest time on the trail. So using your August 3rd start date example per the NPS calendar you would fax your request between 12:01 pm Feb 16th or by 7:00am Feb 17th. It really doesn't matter what time you fax it as long as it is within that timeframe. I would fax it in the evening of February 16th, maybe around 8:00pm just because their fax is less likely to be busy and it's more likely to go through 1st try. At 7:00am on the 17th they take all the faxes and mix them up and start going through them until they fill up that day's quota. Are you putting 3 options for your starting point to maximize your chances? That would be HI > LYV, HI > Pass Through and Glacier Point > LYV You can always start from Tuolumne Meadows and just line up early and get a walkup but you miss the first 24 miles or so. You could take ESTA and Yarts back to Tuolumne at the end of your trip and day hike that stretch downhill to Happy Isles if walking the whole trail is a must. You can do the whole trail and get a reservation by starting from Horseshoe Meadows and hiking over Cottonwood Pass and hiking North. You say you are flexible so keep trying. One guy told me he got rejected 14 days in a row and finally got it on day 15. So keep trying and hopefully you will get that e-mail that says you got it! Crazy how hard it's getting to get on the JMT but it is an awesome experience so don't give up. Day you want to start hikingFirst day to faxDate faxes processedFirst day to call (closed weekends 3-Aug16-Feb17-Feb17-Feb

[@coreygillum12]

i am planning a solo hike on the JMT for late August/September 2017. i only can do a few sections ( about ten days worth) what do you suggest ?

[@ApeMan]

If I had 10 days I would enter at the North Lake trailhead near Bishop and head over Piute pass and come out over Kearsarge Pass to the Onion Valley trailhead. You would see the best part of the JMT and it would be a pretty leisurely pace which would allow time to linger at the good spots and maybe some short side trips. I thinks it's around 80 miles? It's also the least crowded section of the JMT with the exception of the Rae Lakes Loop crowd.

[@adventureandbackpackingtin9923]

Than you for info I'm currently in the lottery at August 13 and I'm 0/6....if I fail to get a permit I'll take the cottonwood pass direction....I couldn't really hear...are there shuttle options there? And what is best camp to start and best resupply? Any help wld be great thanks!

[@adventureandbackpackingtin9923]

To add if I start in Yosemite I'll fly into San Francisco and hop a tour bus to get to Yosemite...if I start cottonwood pass I'll fly into Reno and .....then idk yet hopefully shuttle in

[@ApeMan]

I believe you can connect with a bus to Yosemite from the SF airport if you get on bart to Emeryville where the bus leaves from. From Reno you take a bus called ESTA which I believe only runs once a day so check their schedules on their website. That will get you to Lone Pine where you can arrange a shuttle or hitch up too Horseshoe Meadows. Hitch Hiking is pretty easy in this area. You will need to resupply at Onion Valley if starting at Cottonwood. You can hitch to Independence to pick up a resupply you can send to the post office there or use Berners pack station at the trailhead. Google Berners pack station onion valley for details. There is also a great motel in Independence called the Mt Williamson Motel that will shuttle you back to the trailhead if you stay there. I'm sure you will have more questions so feel free to ask.

[@adventureandbackpackingtin9923]

Thank you so much must be amazing living in the area I'm moving to Colorado right when I come back for the trail....this is how I found the time to get a few weeks off haha.....thank you again.....ive been working on KZbin channel myself and will tag u for all this great info ...may not be much but I appreciate it...still working out some editing but I'll be posting my trip...great videos also ....looks incredible I've been to Yosemite but not up in the Sierra's.... really looking forward to it

[@adventureandbackpackingtin9923]

I hear there is a lot of snow up there this year...do you know when you think starting at cottonwood pass wld be feasible? I'm 0/10 on the Yosemite valley permit so far ... hopefully the walk ups are easy at cottonwood

[@adventureandbackpackingtin9923]

I'll add I'll probably be solo as most ppl I knew w aren't willing to commit the time

[@Mylife-tp7gv]

I am planning a trip with my eleven year old son. I only have two weeks of vacation. We're would be a good place to start? I am coming from the east coast. What would be the best airport to land and leave from? Thanks for any help.

[@ApeMan]

+Derek Ogren Mammoth Lakes area is a logical starting point for that time frame and because it has good transportation. I'm assuming you will be hiking the whole time or do you want to leave some time for other things like Yosemite? Not sure how strong of hikers you guys are so I will assume 10 miles a day. The longest stretch of the trail you could do would be from Devils Postpile / Reds Meadow to Whitney Portal. It's about 140 miles. I think a better nearby entry point is nearby Duck Pass. This is an easier permit to get than Reds Meadow and more scenic and it reaches the JMT at Purple Lake. The problem with the INYO National Forest permits is if you want to finish and exit at Whitney Portal you also need a "trail Crest Exit" permit and they fill up immediately and you can't get them as a walkup. You will be prompted for this on Recreation.gov when you choose exiting Mt Whitney. If you can't get the exit permit and summiting Whitney is important to you, you will have to exit at Horseshoe Meadows / Cottonwood Pass trailhead which adds 30 miles to your trip. If you don't mind missing Whitney then you could exit over Kearsarge Pass at the Onion Valley trailhead which would cut 30-35 miles off your starting point. A better starting point if you are doing Whitney would be to go to Bishop and start at North Lake or South Lake trailheads which would give you the very best of the JMT and exit at Horseshoe Meadows if you can't get the trail crest exit. You would need to arrange a resupply at the Onion Valley trailhead. You can actually call the INYO National forest and talk to a ranger about reserving a permit and options. Go to the recreation.gov website for permit availability. For transportation I would fly into Reno and then get to Mammoth or Bishop on Eastern Sierra Transit (ESTA) which services all the East Side JMT trailheads. Check the ESTA website for schedules. They don't run everyday and only do one trip a day so you need to base your flight on the ESTA schedule. Mammoth has a small airport with a limited schedule and you could also come in through LA but the connection to ESTA is a little complicated. There are a lot of options and it's confusing but it's worth it. Let me know if I can help.

[@jimb6683]

Any thing new for 2017? Are they going to an online system this year? Thanks

[@ApeMan]

Small changes to make it easier to apply for: www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/jmtfaxform.pdf

[@jimb6683]

Thanks... cant wait!

[@kimalixglazier4008]

No we are starting July 21st. now we are at 22nd everyday we are Appling

[@ApeMan]

+Kim Alix Glazier OK I hope those changes help your chances. Good luck! It's going to be a good wildflower year with all the snow we are getting.

[@hjboba87]

I applied for a solo permit everyday for 5 weeks and was denied everytime. Heading to Yosemite at the end of June in hopes of getting a last minute cancelation permit.

[@ApeMan]

+Hj Boba It will be easier to get a walkup or cancellation from Toulumne Meadows rather than Yosemite Valley. Show up early at the permit office and you will get on the trail within a couple days and perhaps the same day.

[@hjboba87]

WoW! Thanks for the tip. I will for sure take your advice. Thank you !

[@714lgdan]

What's the penalty for not getting a permit and just going anyway?

[@ApeMan]

+714lgdan Immediate escort out of the wilderness and a fine in the neighborhood of 500 dollars. I have hiked sections of the JMT for years and I don't get checked often but I have never completed a leg longer than 50 miles without getting checked at least once. Often they just want to check you for a bear canister and that's it. It's usually a seasonal or part timer that seem to be required to ask for a permit. The wilderness rangers rarely ask but they sometimes do. One year I was around Donahue Pass and the rangers were retrieving an injured hiker by horseback so there were a lot of front country rangers out on the trail. I was checked for my permit 3 times in a 10 mile stretch.

[@714lgdan]

+Ape Man I knew there would be a fine but to be escorted out seems over the top. You could be days or week from civilization. I just asked my friend who is a recreation major(but didnt know), he heard a story from a girl who said her and her friends were stopped but the ranger made them help him with trail maintenance and also some food. they ended up on low rations but escaped a fine.

[@714lgdan]

+714lgdan btw thank you for your response. if I ever get the chance to hike the trail I'm thinking of going from south to north

[@ApeMan]

+714lgdan The fine for doing Whitney without a permit was $200 10 years ago. Not sure what it is now. A good source told me that they can fine you up to $5000.00 on the JMT without a permit but rarely if ever do. For sure you would be asked to leave immediately. The same goes for hiking without an approved bear canister. It sucks but I agree with the quotas and canister requirements to protect the wilderness from overcrowding.

[@Sfey3386]

How do they know if each person in my group applies for a permit?

[@ApeMan]

+Steven Feyers They don't. Just put in 1 for each guy as trip leader. Should you miraculously get an extra then cancel that one. Be careful though. The group leader has to pickup the permit and they check ID's. From experience people flake as a trip approaches so just make sure everyone is committed.

[@kimalixglazier4008]

Thank you Ape Man! I think your Information and time are so helpful. This is what our form looks like would you give it a look?This our 2nd year trying. Thanks again. #1 JULY 1st- HI>>LYV , AUGUST, 18th EXIT- WP- CAMP Sunrise Lakes #2 July 1st- GP>>LYV, AUGUST 18th,EXIT- WP- CAMP Sunrise Lakes #3 Sunrise Lakes>>(Tenaya Lakes South) AuGUST 18th, EXIT-WP- CAMP Cathedral Lakes

[@ApeMan]

+Kim Alix Glazier If you pick HI>>LYV or GP>>LYV then your 1st night camping spot is required to be LYV not Sunrise so change that. A 3rd option is to put HI>>Sunrise pass through with 1st nights campspot Sunrise Creek. Sunrise Lakes are not on the JMT so don't put that on your form. Sunrise Creek and Sunrise High Sierra camp are on the JMT so that's probably what is confusing. If you start at Glacier point your only option is camping at LYV. Are you really starting on July 1st and ending on August 18th? I'm jealous but that would cause some food and resupply issues if you are out on the trail that long.

[@JROutdoors]

I just made a reservation through Recreation.gov. I guesstimated the campsites for every night (See below). Do I need to stick to that itinerary? Do I need to make a reservation for the night before (Cottonwood) and after (Happy Isles) the trip as well? Thanks for all the information. It's an enormous help. Fri Aug 05 2016: SEKI - Rock Creek (84) Sat Aug 06 2016: SEKI - Crabtree (83) Sun Aug 07 2016: SEKI - Crabtree (83) Mon Aug 08 2016: SEKI - Tyndall Creek (80) Tue Aug 09 2016: SEKI - Bubbs Creek (66) Wed Aug 10 2016: Gilbert Lake (Kearsarge Pass) Thu Aug 11 2016: SEKI - Charlotte Lake (63) Fri Aug 12 2016: SEKI - Twin Lakes (56) Sat Aug 13 2016: SEKI - Palisade Basin (45) Sun Aug 14 2016: SEKI - Other Mon Aug 15 2016: SEKI - McClure Meadow (33) Tue Aug 16 2016: SEKI - Other Wed Aug 17 2016: Rosemarie Meadow JMT- Seldon Pass Thu Aug 18 2016: Pocket Meadow JMT- Silver Pass north of Lake Edison Fri Aug 19 2016: Purple Lake JMT (Duck Pass) Sat Aug 20 2016: Other / Don't Know Sun Aug 21 2016: Garnet Lake JMT- Thousand Island Lake Mon Aug 22 2016: Yosemite- Tuolmne Meadows/Lyell Canyon Tue Aug 23 2016: Yosemite - Cathedral Lakes Wed Aug 24 2016: Yosemite - Cathedral Lakes Thu Aug 25 2016: Yosemite - John Muir Trail- Little Yosemite

[@ApeMan]

+J.R. Couch Your itinerary looks pretty good actually. You do not need to stick to it AT All after the 1st night. I don't know why they make you fill that all in. Just go where you like after Rock Creek. As long as you exit within a couple days of the end of your itinerary you are fine. New this year if you start from Cottonwood you are allowed to do half dome which you should do if you haven't already. Cottonwood campground is no reservation 1st come 1st served. It will fill up but just ask to squeeze in somewhere and just set up your tent. You can hang out in the picnic area next door to cook and then just crash in your tent. At the end of the trail you are allowed to spend one night in the backpackers campground in Yosemite Valley. No reservations necessary. It's actually way better than the overcrowded car campgrounds. It's in the back of the north pines car campground across the bridge. More info here: www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bpcamp.htm

[@JROutdoors]

+Ape Man Thanks for the tip about Half Dome. I have never done Half Dome. I will definitely include that in the trip. The reason I had Cathedral Lakes listed twice in the itinerary was to build in an extra day in Yosemite. I was hoping to visit Clouds Rest while I was there. General information that anyone reading this thread might find useful.... Here is some information put together by the PCTA that I have been using to plan my trip. www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/john-muir-trail/ I have the Tom Harrison JMT Maps. However, the section from Horseshoe Meadows > Chicken Spring Lake > RockCreek > Crabtree isn't on those maps. It's on the Tom Harrison - Mount Whitney High Country map.

[@daveinstlouis7296]

I just got my Golden Ticket ~ Entry Date: 09/20/2018 Entry Trailhead: Lyell Canyon Exit Date: 10/12/2018 Exit Trailhead: Whitney Portal Number in Party: 1 Number hiking Half Dome: 0 Number of Stock: 0 Donohue Pass: Yes What you think I should do? I would like to Hike the Whole Trail but starting 24 Miles in..????

[@ApeMan]

As a solo you have some walk up options. You can try to get a walkup from happy isles to Toulumne Meadows. It's the Donahue Pass that is really hard to get and you already have that. Or you could do Toulumne meadows to Happy Isles. You could even do it as a day hike without a permit if you think you can hike that far in a day. It's all downhill from TM to the valley. Then you can take the bus back to TM and start the rest of your hike. Hit me up with any questions.

[@moezaw1961]

Hi Ape Man, Thank you for the inside information. Here is my plan. Is it ok to you? #1 AUG 2nd- HI>>LYV , AUGUST, 26th EXIT- WP- 1st Night Camp: Clouds Rest Junction #2 AUG 2nd- HI>>Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass Through, AUG 26th, EXIT- WP- 1st Night Camp: Clouds Rest Junction #3 AUG 2nd Sunrise Lakes>> (Tenaya Lakes South), AUG 25th, EXIT-WP- 1st Night Camp: Sunrise High Sierra Camp Thanks, Moe

[@ApeMan]

+Moe Myint Looks great Moe. Make sure to check the box on the permit form that you are exiting over Donahue Pass. For an August 2nd start you would fax that in after 5pm February 15th and before 7:30 am on February 16th (Pacific Time) There is no advantage on timing other than later at night their fax machine won't be as busy. You may have to fax several days in a row and move your dates out until you get it. The bad news is those options you chose are the hardest to get. The good news is that Tuesday through Thursday starts are a little less busy and increase your odds so since August 2nd is a Tuesday it increases your chances. Good luck!

[@moezaw1961]

+Ape Man Thanks. I looked at my permit application again then I think I should change #2 to Glacier Point > LYV route rather then HI >>Sunrise/Merced Lake Pass Through. At the previous plan, #1 and #2 route is almost identical.

[@ApeMan]

+Moe Myint That's a good plan. Glacier Point is actually a ridiculously scenic start to the JMT and mostly level to down hill to little yosemite Valley so it makes for an easy 1st day. You do have to take a tourist bus from the visitor center in Yosemite Valley to get to the trailhead. It runs once a day around 12:30 I think? It's 25 dollars but it still gives you plenty of time to get into camp.

[@moezaw1961]

+Ape Man It's very hard. Rejected 12 times already. Well I am not going to give it up. :)

[@ApeMan]

Sorry Moe - It's the busiest year ever. Keep trying and then you have to look at alternative trailheads like Rush Creek, Agnew Meadows or Duck Pass. Those are available at recreation.gov. If you are dead set on doing the whole trail consider a northbound trip starting from Cottonwood Pass.

[@kimalixglazier4008]

Ok so, it seems we need to change some things..

[@robertwood4783]

If somebody has to talk for fifteen minutes on how to do something, then the system isn't a good one

[@ApeMan]

It's a terrible system which is why I did a video about it. They improved it for 2017. It's now mostly a supply / demand issue. Plus I really like to talk and most of my videos are twice as long as they need to be. I'm a backpacker not a videographer.

[@robertwood4783]

It sounds horribly complicated. Almost as difficult to comprehend as the rules and regulations that govern fishing laws and licences in different states. Thanks for the information.