How to Have a Conversation: Weak Arguments

[@Soapy-chan_old]

Translation: Ask your friend dishonest questions, ignore all evidence, and try to emotionally manipulate them into believing your BS.

[@danielastorga2296]

Thanks Greg Koukl! With these tips I'll never have a constructive discussion again.

[@timeshark8727]

_"How to be a dishonest interlocular with Greg Koukl"_ would be a better title for this video

[@audreyguenette7256]

Mental health is still health!

[@SilortheBlade]

Just an aside wanna be apologist, this method only works on uneducated individuals who will follow along with your script. For example, I could respond, is a broken arm an illness? A disease? Do we require healthcare to deal with it? Do you see how ridiculous this question is? There are so many reasons for an abortion to be healthcare. Ectopic pregnancies' for example will kill the mother. Preventing someone's death through surgery I would very squarely put as healthcare, and I don't know anyone who would say otherwise. It's interesting how this guy is right up front about what a dishonest person he is. HE doesn't want to know someone else's side, hear their information with an honest mind. He just wants to emotionally manipulate others to believe what he believes. I hope some of you can ignore this an be honest people. Understand the other side. Understand the facts. Be a better person.

[@sebcw1204]

healthcare is only about treating illness? what about nutrition and exercise? what about regular checkups (which pregnant people need a lot of)? what about colonoscopies? healthcare is about caring for your health, that means the health of the sapient being carrying the non-sentient being in it's womb which the sapient being owns.

[@dragonspartan9031]

Is abortion healthcare? Yes. It treats a unwanted physical anomaly, I unwanted pregnancy can cause mental and financial harm so a abortion can treat that. What about the fetus? I don't care. A clump of cells is not a person, the person forced to carry the fetus is so they're needs take precedence. You can believe a fetus is a person and act on for yourself and that's fine, just don't force your opinion on other people on matters that do not affect you.

[@vinx.909]

even if a fetus was a full person it wouldn't matter. we don't force people to give up part of their body for the live of another in other situations, to force it here is a double standard.

[@GalapagosPete]

Pregnancy is a temporary but serious disability. In any case, since there is an entire branch of medicine to go to to dealing with pregnancies, apparently dealing with it is considered healthcare. That said, I don’t care what a woman’s reason is for getting an abortion. No one has to justify to you or to me why they decided to get an abortion. It is not your business nor mine.

[@petermartin4298]

Poor choice of examples. A woman I worked with was pregnant. It caused blood pressure issues which put her in danger of a heart attack. An Abortion saved her life. Healthcare. Try again.

[@alchemicalheathen]

I highly recommend looking up the definition of healthcare. This entire video is an exercise in dishonest conversation tactics.

[@vinx.909]

ah yes, the checkups with my doctor are not healthcare because i'm not ill and i go to keep it like that. how dishonest. then again why would i be surprised? you argue against listening to to friend to learn why they hold their position, but assume they will listen to you. why should they? why should they listen to you when you don't listen to them?

[@jrpurdon]

I've identified a flaw and I'll try to take the steps that reveal the flaw. Some abortions are obtained because pregnancy is deteriorating the health of the mother or preventing her from taking life-sustaining medication. Some abortions are performed because the fetus is nearly dead and will eventually kill the mother if not removed. Some women seek abortions because they will be physically assaulted if abusers in her life discover she is pregnant, or that she is pregnant with a daughter instead of a son. Almost every woman getting an abortion does not consent to being pregnant, and having a life grow inside of their uterus they do not want to be there is psychologically damaging in a way that a person who hasn't experienced such a phenomenon could never possibly fully understand. So yes, actually, abortion is healthcare and none of your business.

[@FRN2013]

Do you believe killing a child is a worthwhile solution to this nebulous "psychologically damaging" situation the mother supposedly is in?

[@FRN2013]

Would you be willing to make abortion illegal except for the less than 1% of cases that involve your first two reasons?

[@FRN2013]

Would you be willing to kill a child to save her mom from abuse when she obviously needs to be removed from the abuser's clutches whether or not the child is killed?

[@FRN2013]

Re. "none of your business," do you believe any murder should be illegal, even if it involves people whom you will never meet?

[@jrpurdon]

@@FRN2013 no, and I'm not sure why the frequency is relevant

[@Wraithknight2]

I'm a Physical Therapist Assistant. I don't treat illnesses. Am I not a healthcare provider?

[@cajunqueen5125]

I get pretty lotta healthcare, even when not "ill".

[@palladin1337]

"Abortion is not healthcare." Way to set people up for absolute, complete failure, guys, because no one who actually understands how and when abortions are used will take you seriously when you say shit like this. Never mind that a position like this completely forfeits any claim you might have had on the moral high ground.

[@shellybelle7441]

Completely staging the question. Even if you can argue abortion isn't healthcare, that doesn't mean it's always wrong. Also, i find it rather ironic that an apologist channel claims to be using logic.

[@tr889]

is staging a question or being ironic "wrong"? by what standard? fish plus time do not have obligations to other fish plus time

[@shellybelle7441]

@@tr889 Yes, staging a question is not a sound basis for an argument.

[@tr889]

@@shellybelle7441 but why? your opinion? why do the nerve synapses in your 3 lbs clump of flesh in your brain MATTER? in what worldview do I have to make sound arguments? evolved marsupials do not have to be logically consistent with other evolved marsupials.

[@FRN2013]

What is wrong with asking questions? Would you define the "staging" you're referring to? If asking honest questions in any way helps someone to see the error of his/her thinking, it is good. Unless you oppose truth and oppose saving lives.

[@jrpurdon]

@@FRN2013 one does not "ask honest questions" in an attempt to change someone's mind. An honest question is purely inquisitive in nature. What you're describing is debate, and using questions within a rhetorical framework.

[@edgarmatzinger9742]

So, all you want to have is a dishonest discussion? And your definition of healthcare is extremely narrow.

[@Wraithknight2]

"How to strawman another person's position." -- I fixed your title. Stop offering dishonest tactics to "win" an argument and just be honest.

[@vladd415]

Use tactics like these, and you will not convince anyone, but you will let a bad taste in their mouths, pushing them away from you and your position.

[@FRN2013]

I want to thank all the trolls for their comments. Not only are you illustrating the weaknesses of your illogical, misinformed, and often immoral positions, but you are also helping WWYS's algorithm so that KZbin will promote this video more. A win-win for truth!

[@Korandon]

The fact that the presenter bases his entire argument on the misrepresentation of healthcare is immoral. I'd also like to know how you believe people are misinformed.

[@nagranoth_]

@@Korandon don't feed the troll mate

[@FRN2013]

🤣That's rich. Troll calling a non-troll "troll." 😁

[@FRN2013]

Being pro-holocaust is proof that you're either misinformed or lying.

[@FRN2013]

I'm happily surprised that you trolls are still clicking on an old video. Thanks!

[@scillyautomatic]

Very good! Our sights should be on winning the war, not the battle. And that always includes speaking the truth in love and respect for the person you are talking to.

[@nagranoth_]

He advised you to lie and use dishonest tactics... how is that loving and respectful?

[@scillyautomatic]

@@nagranoth_ "He advised you to lie..." I'm not sure what you're referring to. What did he say that would be advice to lie?

[@sebcw1204]

@@scillyautomatic right when he said abortion isn't healthcare. if you have an ectopic pregnancy, there is ZERO chance of that pregnancy coming to completion but a VERY HIGH chance of injury and death for the mother. the ONLY treatment for the HEALTH of that woman is abortion.

[@scillyautomatic]

@@sebcw1204 Are you saying that terminating a normal pregnancy is also healthcare? It's not very healthy for the baby. That's for sure!

[@sebcw1204]

@@scillyautomatic yes, it is healthcare. Because even a normal pregnancy permanently effects the health of the pregnant person. Here's a question, do you think organ donation should be mandatory? You only need one kidney and the liver regenerates. Refusing to donate those organs or your blood should be seen as murder too. We should also be harvesting corpses regardless of how the person wanted their body treated. We should also reinstate vaccine mandates. You can't just delete bodily autonomy for pregnant people and nobody else, that's hypocrisy.

[@cargo_vroom9729]

What is the video author's definition of healthcare? In their example they seem to accept "making someone healthier" as a reasonable enough answer. Then turn around and argue that health care is only curing diseases. That's a blatant bait and switch. Setting a broken bone, administering vaccinations, providing regular health screenings, giving advice on diet and exercise, and *assisting with family planning* are all health care, but have little or nothing to do with curing a disease. It's almost funny how they have to define away the *majority* of health care in order to argue abortion is not healthcare. Even if you agree with the position on abortion, demand greater intellectual honesty and better arguments.

[@kingsleyking525]

Thank God for this series!!! Very practical and useful for conversations with people about the faith, or any matter really! Please continue with this series :) it's super beneficial for all of us!

[@sebcw1204]

lets see how well his tactics work. try using them to justify killing a pregnant woman with an ectopic pregnancy by denying her the healthcare option of abortion.

[@jimbojackson4045]

Try "Have you ever considered ...?"

[@mynonameyt]

Good job Greg, but I think for the abortion rights person the question of health care would go along the line of, the pregnant woman might be so distraught over the next few months she might do herself harm if she is forced to carry out the unwanted pregnancy. Even though I am against abortion for any reason, with the exception that the "mothers" life is in "immediate and verified danger". That is to say ,someone is going to live and someone is going to die. I know this is long winded but I think the sinereo you poised was to easy. Blessings.

[@vinx.909]

no, the argument would go more like this "we never force someone to donate part of their bodies for the health of another except for a fetus, why the double standard against woman?" and i don't know an argument against that.

[@visforvegan8]

There are a thousand good reasons to have an abortion. If you can't think of any that's your problem, don't have an abortion. But stay out of the lives of others. And stop watching Greg dishonest bad arguments Kokul.

[@paulacate448]

Well stated. Thank you for these helpful videos.

[@nagranoth_]

Boy are you in for a surprise when you're going to talk to "your friend"

[@jimbojackson4045]

Pregnancy is not an injury or illness. It's hardly even comparable to elective plastic surgery, which I wouldn't consider healthcare anyway.

[@vinx.909]

giving birth does more harm to the body then many injuries you go to the doctor for if all goes well, which it often doesn't. also i guess a medical check up to make sure you are and stay healthy isn't healthcare i guess.

[@micaiasoliveira6337]

Holy shit. I've read the book of this guy.

[@thetraditionalist]

great explanation. Always helpful

[@servant-4-jesus]

Well said👏

[@idahogie]

Abortion isn't healthcare? Really? Do you object when conservative politicians seek to regulate clinics like hospitals? Or when they try to require clinic providers to have admitting privileges? You're a dishonest person. To the bone.

[@dreadpirateroberts4883]

Definitely tracking with you, but your baby murder example is better if you don't speak Latin by using "fetus". That's what the other side does. Just say "baby"...so then your example of "How is abortion healthcare for the baby?" is far more potent.

[@KM-te6wu]

Sadly, the baby is not considered a baby while in the womb…for those who say abortion is healthcare, fetus is the best word.

[@vinx.909]

for 1 fetus is the term so long as it's not born 2 we don't force you to give up part of your body so someone else can live, why the double standard? how many people did you kill by not donating one of your organs you have two of?

[@sebcw1204]

we say fetus, blastocyst, and zygote because those are the correct terms for those stages of pregnancy. being "potent" is not effective, because once you use the emotionally loaded and incorrect term "baby" for a thing inside a womb, those who believe in freedom of choice will shut down and stop listening to you. you wont convince anyone using such emotional language.

[@nagranoth_]

Wow... the ignorance

[@danielastorga2296]

You managed to be even more dishonest than Greg Koukl. Congrats!

[@insaneguy2337]

Don’t try to make this video if you can’t make America great again (Christian nation again). Its the American people that always depends on methods and compromise with others. We need more Elijah.

[@vinx.909]

ah yes, all the compromises, that's why so many not cis white straight males want to leave. the more of those boxes you don't hit the more fucked you are.

[@sebcw1204]

what do you mean "christian nation again"? have you not read the very first amendment? it establishes protections AGAINST theocratic rule.

[@FRN2013]

Jesus is Lord, but the USA should _not_ be a theocracy. There have been no theocracies since Israel rejected God as thier king and chose Saul. And the USA was never a Christian nation. As in every other country, most professing Christians are not following Jesus.

[@vinx.909]

@@FRN2013 while i agree with your view on theocracies (it's dangerous for anyone not of the dominant religion, and with the rise of islam christians should maybe stop making religions special), i would question how you measure if christians are following jesus.