How to identify Poa trivialis and Poa Annua and how to kill them

[@GrassDaddy]

Want to learn more about Poa Annua? www.grassdaddy.net/weeds/poa-annua

[@ryanern18]

A couple of thoughts from someone who has battled poa triv endlessly for the past 7 years across 2 homes (we moved last fall and I was so happy to start over with a different lawn......only to find this spring that our new house also has quite a bit of it). It's a huge problem here in the northeast (PA) and exacerbated like crazy with the endless rain we get each spring now. -Fix drainage problems. If you've got areas of the lawn that gather standing water or are swampy when it rains it will go nuts there. -Mowing practices help a lot in living with it if you have to. Bag clippings, wash your mower and up the mowing height to de-stress it the other types and let them stand tall above it. -While it's not ideal I do some seeding with rye in the spring and use Tupersan as my early pre-emergent. It won't take like the fall but every bit helps and the rye has the best chance of germinating quickly. -Spot treatment doesn't work in my experience. I've done total kills on hundreds of square feet of the worst spots and after about 2 years it completely re-infested it. -seedsuperstore.com (if you've ever watched Ryan Knorr's channel he buys from them) sell a new strain of rye that also spreads via stolons the same way poa triv does. I plan on overseeing with it (mixed with TTTF) this fall and using Tenacity next spring and see if it can't turn the tide a little.

[@GrassDaddy]

yeah it's quite the battle. thankfully here it's pretty dry so I can get away with an easier battle! good luck on the new home! have you tried a full reno to take it all out?

[@fiddleguy28]

A lot has to do with conditions. Poa triv likes long cool springs. This year was perfect conditions for poa triv. Last year had not enough to really get upset about. This year, holly s___. Most years not too big a problem. You have to take her as she comes.

[@stevebabiak6997]

Tupersan is discontinued I believe

[@rosscraddock6241]

A quick way to get poa annua is to run a meal rake through your lawn, just drag it through in the spring and you will see it sticks out in height compared to the rest of the mowed lawn. I don't have a large lawn so it's easy for me to then dig it out and reseed .

[@GrassDaddy]

great tip!

[@billbrandon5936]

this is a great video....i read your paragraph and i realized i had never really looked at my grass closely...i have been cutting it for thirty years ...doing the scotts four bag program etc...but you know what i think i have a alot of things growing in my yard i never realized!! i am almost afraid to find out!! so thanks...

[@GrassDaddy]

I know right, the more you learn the more crazy you get about your lawn. I keep telling myself it doesn't have to be perfect =P

[@billbrandon5936]

yours looks pretty da*& good to me!

[@GrassDaddy]

no way, got more to go! never good enough hehe

[@chrisf7574]

Zack, quiet.

[@GrassDaddy]

lol

[@turboflush]

Yahh. I would delete that part of vid. Lol

[@obadiah7771]

TurboFlush why?

[@GrassDaddy]

nah I like people seeing the realness. that's why I don't care if I say a chemical name wrong or make mistakes or the kids get in the way ;-)

[@czynski3]

Absolutely! You need to have majored in Greek Mythology to be able to pronounce many of the chemical names. Call them as you see them - people know what you mean!

[@noclssgt]

Yeah, zack! We're learning here! :)

[@GrassDaddy]

lol he gave me the stink eye when I said that

[@mattcondit356]

Made me feel better about my poa annua situation to hear your thoughts that it's last weed to battle before the next level lawn. Not sure I'm there but it's come a long way.

[@GrassDaddy]

Yeah around here many really nice lawns have it, tru green and other chem companies will say it's not a weed it's grass lol

[@jasonlinder9923]

Great vid, easy to follow and just a good way of dealing with next level problems

[@fiddleguy28]

One good thing about blanket spraying Tenacity is that it is also a peremergent. It goes after the current poas and tends to prevent new outbreaks.

[@deeginese6756]

Good stuff! I sprayed tenacity to handle my nimblewill, but you just helped me realize for certain that I have some poa annua popping up in my lawn as well. Wasn't certain but those images confirmed it. Thanks!

[@GrassDaddy]

Awesome! I guess =P not cool realizing you have it but ya lol

[@Jefferson196]

Good Video. The more I learn about weeds the more I realize my yard is 80% weeds (Poa Annua, Dallis Grass, Crab Grass, a couple ive not identified) 15% Bermuda, 5% St Augustine, lol... I thought Poa Annua was bermuda then I learned from one of your vids, nope, i got weeds. I like the pre-release to the email, makes sure i see it in my email inbox.

[@GrassDaddy]

Well the good news is Bermuda will spread like crazy if you are looking for a warm season lawn but if not then oh boy lol good luck =P

[@Nobel_11]

Professional information very informative

[@davidhires7403]

How did the tenacity work for you? I’ve heard it doesn’t really work.

[@hendrikjurgens7021]

My story with poa trivialis was like this: in the first year I had a very mossy lawn that I startet to cut high and fertilized well. The moss disappeared but the poa triv took over. At first it looked like a very nice and thick lawn but by the end of june it started to spread stolons and the lawn bekame very thatchy. During the summer drought it died and by September I verticuttet it all out. It was a real mess an also smelled like low tide at the beach if you know what I mean. After that I reseeded with tall fescue that does not tend to build thatch and does not require watering. By cutting at 3 inches the fescue feels well and the poa triv has almost disappeared. I also do a light verticutting twice a year to rip all the thatch out and reseed after. So far it worked fine for me to control that „Ungrass“

[@GrassDaddy]

Yeah you can conquer it just takes a lot of time and effort!

[@mtnbikerva1]

What is vertcutting

[@hendrikjurgens7021]

@@mtnbikerva1 vertical cutting with a dedicated machine. A verticutter. This machine cuts slices into the turf and removes the thatch, also cuts into the upper layer of the soil and opens it for overseeding.

[@stevebabiak6997]

@@mtnbikerva1 - you can buy a SunJoe power rake that has a set of blades that does that type of cut. It’s an inexpensive machine.

[@sj7601]

Does poa triv feel like a rubber texture compared to KBG? I'm attempting to identify several lime green patches, and that's what it feels like.

[@SuperTA329]

I think it's a cool idea. Always waiting to watch next video. It's crazy how much goes into growing a lawn so the videos definitely helps. Why reinvent the wheel when we can learn from both your good and bad experiences. Keep them coming.

[@GrassDaddy]

Yeah the better you get at it the more details you see and want to improve, it never ends!

[@landdon24]

I contacted greencast, the makes of tenacity, about poa. Their response: Hi Don, Tenacity will appear to knock back poa annua, but it only truly provides pre-emerge suppression. We would expect the poa to recover from a Tenacity post-emerge application. The only product we have that will kill poa post-emerge is Monument, but it is labelled only to be applied to warm season grasses (Bermuda, zoysia, etc...)

[@GrassDaddy]

I think it's one of those "off label" type situations. Some people have used it in small doses repeatedly (every 7-10 days) and it has worked.

[@fiddleguy28]

When we bought our house thirty years ago everyone in the neighborhood took really good care of their lawns. For years weeds were not a big problem. As the neighborhood aged older folks couldn't and didn't take care of their lawns as they once did. Neighbors died or moved into apartments for the elderly etc.. Younger families with many kids and many dogs replaced the older generation. Younger folks seem to have different priorities as to time use and pride in their property. I also think that some of the new neighbors grow weeds as a commercial crop. What others do with their yards is their business and not mine. I am now an old guy in his late seventies and am faced with more weed problems than I ever had. I've been retired for twenty years and am good shape for my age and still enjoy taking care of my half acre yard. Tenacity works good on poa triv and nutsedge for me if I apply two good applications in the spring. It does result in white spots on the lawn but the blue grass intermixed with the nondesirables quickly fill in the spots. By the first weeks of June you can't tell that I had a problem. The biggest thing with weed control is to have a thick healthy lawn that can out compete the weeds. I get a soil test done every spring and keep the ph, macros, and micros in order. Lawns are living organisms and are susceptible to problems just like all living organisms. Sometimes things are perfect sometimes not so much. We have to go with the flow. Enjoy your yard.

[@holmessph7]

What the hell zach? Leave dad alone.

[@sebastiancannavo8786]

Great informative video. I just subscribed to your newsletter. Thanks.

[@GrassDaddy]

awesome, thanks for watching!

[@philip9015]

I appreciate the dedication you have and the research you follow. You are the Cliff Notes version of lawn care. My time is limited. Watching your vedio's is a great help! Thank you!

[@GrassDaddy]

Haha that's perfect! Cliff notes of lawn care I love it, thanks for watching!

[@czynski3]

Nice job! You've come a long way in a short time!

[@GrassDaddy]

Thanks!

[@NYNick49]

Thanks for the great video! I have been battling poa for many years now, and I think I have been gaining the upper hand since spot spraying Tenacity. But I believe that I have some Poa Triv in a moist area of my lawn. Can you please tell me what Poa Triv should look like in mid October in Southern New York State? The suspect area is lighter than the surrounding area, and I pulled some of the grass (Poa?) out and reseeded. I will try a blanket spray of Tenacity next spring. Thanks again for this great info.

[@aguyandhiscomputer]

I think I got Poa Triv from some Scotts Sun & Shade mix (common from what I have read). Planning to put Roundup on all of it (largest area is probably 5' x 15') and suffer with a brown lawn until the fall. Hate to do it but gotta stop it before it takes over the entire lawn. In it for the long haul, as you said.

[@GrassDaddy]

yeah that's why I try to go with sod quality. even a 0.1% weed seed can be a LOT of triv

[@KM15-13]

@@GrassDaddy My lawn guy says the other seed or weed seed should never be more than .01% and yes you can find it. Usually at a farm supply store, rarely at a big box store.

[@antbans5137]

Hey dude, nice video! plenty of info in here much appreciated 👍 I have just top dressed and over seeded my lawn when would you recomend I should spray tenacity as a pre emergent?

[@GrassDaddy]

Tenacity at seed down

[@antbans5137]

Thanks once again. Keep them videos rolling doing a great job bro 👌

[@seanmclaughlin7415]

Poa Annua shows up in little clumps with lots of seed heads and is lighter green, lighter than Poa Trive. Poa triv is lighter green will grow taller and faster in early spring in a circular pattern.

[@broth_78]

Thanks for breaking this down. Except now I just realized the majority of my yard is annua poa weed!!! Hahaha i have a lot of those exact seed heads. Oh well, it’s green and looks like grass so I’m keeping it. And I also have a lot of that clumping going on. Thanks again. Good info

[@GrassDaddy]

yeah a lot of yards have it, it is grass though so it's not the end of the world just make sure you don't let it dry out during summer =P

[@michaelcampbell3446]

If I do tenacity in the fall as a pre emergent, how long is this good for? Will it last through next spring and prevent this devil weed (POA A) from destroying my turf?. Possibly get the new grass established in early Sept and lay prodiamine or Dithioper OCT to NOV. Thanks

[@GrassDaddy]

Tenacity lasts about 30 days, then you have to re-apply or use a different pre-emergent

[@NoRoads2AllRoads]

this ismy plan... using 2 apps of tenacity or so to cover about 60 days ... and then prodiamine to last until march.

[@GrassDaddy]

It should work pretty well, it won't prevent/kill EVERYTHING but it does do quite a good job

[@kdclt]

Really helpful video. Thanks!!!

[@GrassDaddy]

Thanks for watching!

[@davewaveandrews]

I planted Poa Trivialis in the moderate to heavy shaded areas that tend to stay moist. I used Jonathan Green's Shady Nook mix and it looks wonderful. Maybe they have a variety that has deeper roots and is darker in color? After a round of Miloganite I don't notice the difference in color plus I'd rather have this semi-weed that is very close to grass then moss in my lawn.

[@GrassDaddy]

it depends on the grass type. I'm using an "elite" KBG blend which has darker color tones. If you have a lighter toned grass then yeah it'll mix in pretty well. And you don't HAVE to kill it, if the conditions are right for it then it'll thrive better than the "normal" grasses!

[@pgreenx]

If they look like grass, what’s wrong with them then? 1:10 Also a nice way to talk to your kid

[@mth2068]

I may be wrong here so please correct if I am but reading Tenacity label it states that is will not kill Poa Annua, it will suppress it when used as a preemergant but will not kill as a post emergent.

[@GrassDaddy]

It has been found to kill it but it requires multiple apps and isn't perfect. It's a re-balancing the scale thing, do as much as you can to get the POA stressed and weak while getting the good grass to thrive and take over.

[@samuelasamoah6906]

Does it have round seeds(poa trivialis)..cos i have a plant like that in my lawn....i have noticed are quite different from the poa annua

[@malisha1]

I have been debating on brushing Roundup onto Poa triv. I hate the lime green color it stands out in the lawn. Especially in the most visible part of my front lawn.

[@palillo2006]

Michael Alishayev that is what I did. I just brushed it on and dropped some seed a couple days later.

[@malisha1]

palillo2006 I'm planning to let it grow so it's longer than the grass so it will be easier to brush on Roundup

[@GrassDaddy]

That's why I planted KBG actually. So I can put pre-emergent down, spot treat with glyphosate, and it will spread and fill in the hole!

[@malisha1]

Grass Daddy will kbg spread if u put down prodiamine?

[@palillo2006]

Michael Alishayev yes

[@muddrunner81]

I live in VA and have a few Poa Annua spots in my backyard. I have tall turf fescue grass.They are in the middle of my yard in two different spots. The warm weather has already turned them brown, now my yard just looks ....eeehhh. Wish i could show the pics i took of it. Was thinking about thatch raking it out, then wait till fall and use a pre emergent, then lay down some more seed. What are your thoughts?

[@GrassDaddy]

that would work, just remember to use tenacity when you seed down NOT regular pre-emergent otherwise it will prevent the seed from germinating too. then when the new grass is ready for real pre-emergent you can put it down

[@SuperTA329]

I hear you mention tenacity but I can't find it in your Amazon list. Where do you get it and what brand?

[@GrassDaddy]

Ah I bought it offline for $70 but just found it on Amazon for less so I added it to the list. Every now and then I forget to add something to the list.

[@bryandaxon2020]

Grass Daddy, good video. You mentioned spot treatments (which I have various spots in my yard, didn't get pre emergent down this year). It sounds like you recommend using "Ragan & Massey Glyphosate Concentrate Grass and Weed Killer" or would you use "Syngenta Tenacity Turf Herbicide"? - Thanks!

[@GrassDaddy]

I personally will use Tenacity to find the weeds and then glyphosate to kill them.

[@bryandaxon2020]

Grass Daddy won’t the glysophate kill the KYB?

[@GrassDaddy]

it will, but KBG will fill back in or you can overseed. but obviously you want to spot treat and be careful - there are weed wicks or some people will get a paintbrush or qtip and apply it that way.

[@magarity12]

Great info. Thanks

[@GrassDaddy]

thanks!

[@Iabeerbrewer]

Poor Zack

[@GrassDaddy]

he recovered =P

[@smast16]

Did a blanket spray of Tenacity last month looking for any hidden Poa A, and found 4 patches of Triv. Who wudda thunk i would have triv down in NC.

[@GrassDaddy]

it's everywhere!

[@superkleiz]

Is prodiamine the best one for poa annua or tenacity? Thank you!

[@GrassDaddy]

Prodiamine prevents only, and is most effective of the two at preventing. Apply in the fall. Tenacity will prevent but wears out in a month. However tenacity will kill or damage POA as well. So if you are killing it use tenacity, but to prevent it use prodiamine.

[@superkleiz]

Grass Daddy ok thank you! I am going for tenacity then

[@ptslawns4641]

@@superkleiz I've used Atrazine(pre-emergents)in the spring for poa and a lite rate in cool season turf

[@JPMPS3XBOX360]

Poa triv will never go away!!! I’ve renovated 3 times with multiple rounds of furrowing with round up with sod replacement- it creeps back over 2-3 years. I’ve changed watering patterns, preemergents etc.. I did have some luck with Velocity which I got the last made batch by NuFarms- not made anymore. I am currently trying growth suppressants- it may help buy in my opinion you will always have it to some extent

[@johnnyutah1053]

I am gonna try to pull some poa annua in spots in my yard and replace them with some tall fescue that I'm gonna transplant from another section of my yard where intend to extend a flower bed. Figure it wont hurt to try

[@GrassDaddy]

that's actually a great plan, by transplanting the good section you have instant fix. when you do seed you are more likely to re-introduce the weeds.

[@gmwabash]

Where can I buy tenacity?

[@stevebabiak6997]

The generic name is mesotrione and it can be purchased online.

[@GrassDaddy]

This video was pre-released to my lawn care newsletter subscribers! If you aren't subscribed, you can here - it's free: www.lawncarenewsletter.com

[@johnsappington934]

Grass Daddy so I can over seed in the fall, and then use tenacity in the fall to prevent the POA from coming back?

[@Torpedomtb]

tenacity will harm about everything else too.

[@Legacymindframe]

Zack was putting work.LOL

[@GrassDaddy]

he's too funny

[@jonmernick780]

does poa triv turn white with tenancity?

[@stevebabiak6997]

Tenacity works by turning the plants that it affects a white color. If the Tenacity is killing the plant, the white color is the indicator.

[@MICHIGANMIKE12]

ACCLAIM...works on Triv...

[@302irishaj]

Do you have a Facebook page? Or something I could send pictures to help identify weeds? Nevermind, I found you. Lol.

[@GrassDaddy]

Best place is thelawnforum.com ;)

[@spencerJtye]

Poa triv has steadily spread in my lawn the past two seasons. I'd assumed it was just the dominant seed in a mix i'd used in a shady area but finally realised it coincided with areas that died off in the summer. My plan is to light it up with Tenacity every 14 days in the hope it allows the tall fescue to compete better through what remains of the spring. In the fall i'll hit it with RU, dig the areas in and re-seed. I do think in shady damp areas it might be tough to get rid of, so if it returns i might just learn to live with it.

[@GrassDaddy]

I've heard if you do light doses every 10 days it may kill it. Conflicting reports though.

[@Doug_E_Dee]

I've had great sucess with Tenacity on triv, it does take 2 or 3 applications though.

[@GrassDaddy]

that's probably the key, some people will apply once and say doesn't work. but you have to keep hitting it and stunting it enough to die completely.

[@spencerJtye]

Grass Daddy yes the reports seem very mixed with Tenacity. Velocity I think was the herbicide of choice but is out of production.

[@greatamerican9168]

Poor Zack got the Grass Daddy

[@GrassDaddy]

lol

[@derekh7982]

You talk to your kid like I talk to my dog.

[@turboflush]

Curious.. why is this a bad grass?

[@GrassDaddy]

It easily dies in the heat so if you don't water it daily it's a dead spot. Golf courses use it but they water like crazy.

[@alan30189]

You should edit out the “Zachary” comments. Try saying “please” to your child, also. Next time go to a room your boy isn’t in, to do your video. Other than that, good video. 😀 I used a product called “Image,” in a hose attachment spray bottle, on my Poa Annua. Be sure to use the “Image” with the label that says it kills post-emergent Poa Annua. I’ll let you know how it works. Hope I don’t have Poa Triv!

[@GrassDaddy]

Zach appears in many videos and loves to interrupt to get "yelled at"

[@francmeister420]

i understand the want of having a beautiful lawn, but you're putting too many chemicals into the environment. :(

[@GrassDaddy]

Tenacity is actually a less harmful chemical, it comes from a plant - a bush of some sort.

[@vikingstorm32]

Great information!